Zelenskyy says Putin’s vow not to hit Ukraine's energy infrastructure 'at odds with reality'
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 310 comments
Posted by Leather-Paramedic-10@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 310 comments
iNuminex@reddit
That sums up the entire conflict pretty well. Putin started the war under lies and false pretences, and he will continue to lie and decieve until the day he finally rots in the dirt.
moonorplanet@reddit
Zelenskyy should hope Putin doesn't go full Netenyahu on him.
Rocktopod@reddit
What would that even mean? Seems like Russia isn't pulling any punches, except for nukes.
GrandviewHive@reddit
Remember how Baghdad was taken and what civilian casualties US was happy to take with. That could be realistic for Russia to accomplish, just look at Volnovaha.
What Israel is doing is even more horrific, indiscriminately targetting civilians in refugee tents and then attacking second and third time to eliminate ambulances, firefighters, engineers. Imagine if Russia hit a power station and then subsequently hit it each time someone came to douse the flames. Casualties in Ukraine are minimal compared to Iraq let alone Gaza
No_Presentation5511@reddit
russians have destroyed dozens of cities and towns in Ukraine. The "best" example is Mariupol.
russians often carry out repeated airstrikes on the same objects.
The losses are minimal? Oh, what good russians are. Don't care about the thousands of killed and tortured NON-military personnel. they purposefully kill only a few Ukrainians!
TotallyADuck@reddit
Ah, so we're back to the old 'Russia's REAL army would be a different story!' argument, huh? Tho let's face it, you don't even know about the frequent double and triple tap attacks against Ukraine so it's not like you'd know any better.
FRcomes@reddit
Russian missiles reach Lviv without any problem, but redditors believe that Kyiv hasn't been turned into Gaza by magic. I'm not a fan of this and wish its ended, but it's your statement is just denial of reality.
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
Russia absolutely turned cities in Ukraine into Gaza like rubble.
FRcomes@reddit
frontline towns and villages where the war took place. Kyiv, Lviv, Odessa, Dnipro and other cities of Ukraine are still functioning and even look pretty good
onespiker@reddit
Frontline cities were also obliterated.
Futher away ones wouldn't be done that without nukes. Russia missile barrages aren't large enough and would exhaust thier military capabilities without any good return.
Kazruw@reddit
Because Russia is not capable of destroying them without nukes.
FRcomes@reddit
sure bro, i asked my shovel handle and it says you right and not coping
Kazruw@reddit
I’ll give you credit for realizing that you are dumber than a shovel handle and then asking the handle for an opinion.
ctnoxin@reddit
Oh look a belligerent Russian orc, how quaint
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
I think redditors are actually basing this on Russia having a finite supply of missiles that they need to use against military targets. Because if they didn't, Ukraine wouldn't have a military because each individual soldier would have died from one of the 5,000 personalised missiles fired at him.
CautiousPlatypusBB@reddit
If russia does that, there will probably be western retaliation. Fighting soldiers in combat is one thing, if you start murdering civillians at a mass scale, that deserves a proper response.
Eche24@reddit
Yeah, they totally are giving Israel a proper response right?
tu_tu_tu@reddit
That's the redditor level of ignoring nuances!
Rocktopod@reddit
I see what you're saying. So Russia has enough missiles and artillery to completely level Kyiv, and they're choosing not to at this point?
Hyndis@reddit
Yes, because Putin seems to want Ukraine as a submissive, harmless puppet state similar to Belarus. To do this he needs the government core intact so he can install his handpicked people to run the place.
Otherwise if he just wanted to destroy then Kyiv would already be rubble.
ztuztuzrtuzr@reddit
Technically he could do a general conscription but that would be widely unpopular even amongst his base and would be politically very damaging to him
__DraGooN_@reddit
And the alternative is keep the war going till somehow Russia magically disappears or disintegrates?
GoldenInfrared@reddit
The alternative is to bomb every oil refinery, oil rig, major government facility, etc. in Russia until their state capacity is exhausted and they’re unable to fund or continue administering the war. Ukraine has had an absurd amount of success destroying oil refineries up until now, and removing the restriction on using US weapons on them would massively tilt the negotiating table in Ukraine’s favor, if not force a withdrawal entirely.
This has the side-benefit of scaring potential rivals like China or Iran from trying the same shit against other US partners abroad, knowing that we’re willing to bring pain on them for its own sake to punish attacks against our allies and cripple their capabilities
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Well this war isn’t administered by oil revenues.
It’s administered by taxes. Income taxes to be exact.
The notion that Russia only made money by selling oil was pretty stupid.
You could take a magic wand and eliminate all oil in Russia and this war would still continue.
But arrogance always limits the bounds of imagination and thus strategy.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
That's a pretty stupid claim. Not only do the strikes against oil infrastructure show effect on state income (and thus, inflation), but if all the oil in Russia was eliminated, then ALL of Russia's logistics, not just at the front, would be donkeys. Which would result in general starvation. And no, the war would not continue for long after that.
Burpees-King@reddit
Yea wishful thinking and hopium is all you guys have left 😂. After being consistently wrong for 3 years
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
It's just a fact that a lot of Russian (and in fact everybody's) logistics runs on oil. So if you remove ALL the oil, yes Russia would stop. That's not copium, that's just a fact. And that's why I labelled the claim that the war would go on if all oil was eliminated from Russia as stupid. Because it is stupid.
As for being consistently wrong... Nope. Consistently wrong have been people who kept predicting Ukraine will fail soon.
Burpees-King@reddit
Literally nothing you said was even accurate.
No it doesn’t, Russia continues to produce oil and make positive returns. https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-oil-refining-rises-us-sanctions-target-crude-exports-sources-2025-01-27/
Not only that, Russia’s largest oil company(Rosneft) continues to see year-on-year profits. https://www.rosneft.com/Investors/Reports_and_presentations/Consolidated_financial_statements/
Literally nothing you said was accurate, just weird wishful thinking.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
I never claimed Russia doesn't still produce oil. But they make smaller returns than before (adjusted for the price of oil).
But smaller profits than before: https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-rosneft-reports-144-drop-2024-net-profit-2025-03-20/
A 14.4% drop in profits is not a pinprick.
Really, you should look at numbers, not just Russian propaganda. Then you wouldn't come off as stupid as you do.
Burpees-King@reddit
I just linked you the companies financial statements you dumbass 🤣. It’s 14% drop from 2023 but still a huge net gain, now compare it to 2021.
Here is again the financial statements: https://www.rosneft.com/Investors/Reports_and_presentations/Consolidated_financial_statements/
Do you know how to get around a financial statement or is your education limited to high school?
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Ah, insults, a sure sign that you know you've run out of arguments.
Notice how that financial statement ends midway through 2024. Why is that, I wonder?
Oh sure, if you get to pick what year you're comparing to, you can always show a gain. It's a wonder you didn't compare to 2020, that would have given you an even bigger gain.
It's a profit, but it's not a growth of profit, it is a decrease in profits. Which can happen, when your production facilities go up in flames. Claiming "there is not effect, because there is still profit" is idiotic.
Since you're debating at the kindergarten level, what does it matter? Do you expect me to teach you?
Burpees-King@reddit
No it doesn’t…
for the year ended December 31, 2024
That means for the entire year btw.
https://www.rosneft.com/upload/site2/12m2024_ENG.pdf
What’s even more idiotic is you thinking these pinprick attacks are of any relevance. Despite the attacks happening all throughout 2024, they still made more than in 2021 when there was no war. If that wasn’t the case, then you’d be on to something.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
You call them pinpricks without evidence - wishful thinking. I see a decrease in profits from the previous year, and that's hard numbers.
OOOh, a high-priority industry, the main one for bringing in foreign exchange (so it's a priority for investment, and priority for resources smuggled in against sanctions, and all kinds of other priorities), grew in three years. Stop the presses.
Burpees-King@reddit
There is no evidence a decrease in profit is from the pin-prick attacks. The decrease in profit is most likely because oil prices were higher in 2023 than in 2024.
“Russian refining runs rose by 2%, or by 108,000 barrels, to 754,800 metric tons a day on Jan 15-19 from the first week of the year, according to the sources. It was also up 1.2% from the average for January 2024.”
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/russian-oil-refining-rises-us-sanctions-target-crude-exports-sources-2025-01-27/
“Russia’s budget revenue rose to a record high last month”
https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/russias-budget-revenue-surges-to-record-in-december-despite-sanctions
Pin-prick attacks haven’t done much.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Ah, but Russia, under sanctions had to trade with the price cap. They weren't getting the international price anyway, and were thus isolated from it. The difference between the two prices even decreased because Russia was using the shadow tanker fleet to export more oil with avoidance of the price cap, so effectively, the price they were getting was increasing while the international price was decreasing slightly.
Ah, the Russian way of lying with statistics. Oh it rose 2% since last week. And this week it was 1.2 % higher than the average week of the whole month (comparing to the same week would be too revealing, I guess). But that means, that the week before, it was 1% LOWER than the average week in January 2024. A decrease over 2024, and certainly no growth. Whoops.
“Russia’s budget revenue rose to a record high last month” you worked hard to find an article that derives all it's data from a Russian press release, I see. Budget revenue also includes sales of gold and currencies from the sovereign fund. Which were up massively last year. So ... yeah that doesn't mean much.
Burpees-King@reddit
No it doesn’t… nobody is going for it.
“Russian oil price cap has largely failed”
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-oil-price-cap-ukraine-war-centre-research-energy-clean-air/
So cute you think the west can dictate the price that Russia sells its oil. You are a very naive individual.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
And that while the official price of oil was over $80.
The report you linked states:
So, it looks like some did go for it, doesn't it?
And, like I said, the price cap wasn't ignored all at once, while the official prices may have been going down, Russia's price was increasing as it increasingly found ways around the price cap, including the shadow fleet. Which is what I said in the first place.
Yes, I know that. What you don't know is that Lloyd's and other insurers don't just pay out for the damages, they ensure that the ships are maintained to the standard that makes the need for payouts less likely. The Russian insurers don't do that. They accept vessels in truly terrible state, and they don't pay out. Which means an increasing number of ports don't want to accept vessels insured by such "insurers".
Considering how you were contradicted by the document you linked, you should be embarassed.
Burpees-King@reddit
The price of Ural oil is dictated by its market price, not by some fictional cap that the west gave. Even right now it is trading around $65 dollars, that’s only $5 dollars or so less than Brent. You don’t know what the hell you’re talking about(as usual with Ukraine fluffers).
Source?
Or was that another trust me bro from your kind?
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Except that it fell when the price cap was established.
Ah, when you the facts don't match what you're presenting, you immediately go to insults.
https://www.ft.com/content/71ec7810-2761-45ea-91fb-45044d0143a5
My KIND is the facts based kind. You must be the other kind.
A simple misreading.
Nope, I commented on it, and you ignored my comment, because what I said is true.
That's not what I said, but you're too blinded by propaganda to understand what I said.
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
The alternative is Putin stops invasion?
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
You could make the argument they are genocide themselves with forced mobilization.
And they already have given away their own children. Most young Ukrainians live in Europe. And they aren’t coming back.
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
Forced mobilization isn’t genocide; it’s a wartime necessity, just like in many other countries. On the other hand, Russia has forcibly deported Ukrainian children—something the ICC considers an actual war crime. And young Ukrainians are in Europe because Russia invaded their country. That’s not an excuse for war; it’s evidence of the harm Russia has caused. Your argument is just victim-blaming disguised as justification for imperialism.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
It’s not a wartime necessity.
If your people are not willing to fight, it’s time to make peace.
Why didn’t Ukraine evacuate those children?
The fact that Russia has be open to returning every one of the few thousand children tells you everything you need to know: Ukraine doesn’t care about those kids but just uses them.
literally no one cares what the ICC thinks dude. It’s a useless organization. No one listens to it.
just because there is war doesn’t mean you leave your home.
They are there because they don’t want to live in Ukraine.
KronusTempus@reddit
Russia in the 90s: don’t expand NATO
NATO: expands
Russia in the early 2000s: don’t expand NATO
NATO: expands
NATO: offers Georgia to join NATO
Russia: attacks Georgia
NATO: surprised pikachu face
NATO: offers Ukraine to join NATO
Russia: attacks Ukraine
NATO: surprised pikachu face
awesomesonofabitch@reddit
So Russia should be able to dictate what other sovereign nations get to do?
chillichampion@reddit
US dictates to other countries what they should do so why not Russia.
EenGeheimAccount@reddit
'My neighbor is dodging taxes, so why not I?'
Because that is one of the flimsiest and most childish excuses you can think of.
If you don't want to hold countries to any morals, just say so. You're allowed to do that. And then you won't need the 'he did so too!' excuse to try to justify Russia's imperialism.
chillichampion@reddit
If the EU and US fail to uphold the rules based order, why do you expect other countries to do so?
bloobityblu@reddit
Because it is the right thing to do. Period.
Were you not taught right and wrong as a child?
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
Haha so other countries should put aside their national interests because it’s the “right” thing to do despite the other supposed “good” countries constant breaking of their own rules? The rest of Europe having no independent foreign policy outside the US’s interests doesn’t mean Russia shouldn’t have theirs.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Russia are allowed to have an independent foreign policy, but this doesn't extend to their being allowed to invade and conquer their neighbours. That's just a return to medieval and colonial might-makes-right philosophy that we should have matured past at this point. And where we haven't, the intent should be to make sure we have rather than just say fuck it, everyone go conquer your weaker neighbours.
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
The unipolar world order we were living in post Cold War was an anomaly that even the US has recognized as ending. For 30 years the US and allies could bully their way into getting what they want with no consequences but now they have regional powers they can’t just give orders to. China especially but also Russia have claim to a sphere of influence that they care for in their national interests.
Russia set a line in the sand over Georgian/Ukranian NATO membership and acted on it once they saw the west would act upon that expansion. China’s position on Taiwan is similarly clear and they claim ownership to the South China Sea in order to combat a naval blockade if they ever decide to invade the island.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
This is not about giving orders to Russia. It's about a general rule, applied equally and fairly to everyone, whereby the total number of countries allowed to conquer their neighbours is 0. Nobody is anyone else's plaything. The US having supported Pinochet's coup in the 70s doesn't translate to Ukraine being fairly on the chopping block for modern Russia. Stop viewing everything as "US bad therefore imperialism is justified" and start viewing countries like Ukraine as real places with people who matter.
Of course Russia aren't the only ones violating this rule. Israel are slowly conquering the West Bank, and China have taken land from Myanmar and are threatening to invade Taiwan. These should also be opposed.
Why is it up to Russia which alliances other countries join? What consistent principle of yours does this come from? Were you equally outraged when Russia formed the CSTO without consulting Finland?
Yeah, and Kenny the Knife has made it clear that anyone not handing over their wallet tonight is going to get stabbed. Does this mean we should see both sides? The people not handing over their wallet have poked the bear and deserve whats coming to them? Why doesn't your world view seem to be separating out events being predictable from events being justified?
chillichampion@reddit
Right thing to do 😂
EenGeheimAccount@reddit
I don't expect anyone to do that, and certainly not Russia, who is the one blatantly breaking it here.
But the world would be a far better place if countries actually did, so I try to push for that in the little ways that I can.
And the West (with or without the US) actually helping to defend Ukraine against Russia's blatant invasions and war crimes, is one way in which the West could actually do something good for a change (while it would also actually benefit the West, which is of course the true reason for the aid given thus far).
So if we as Westerners want the West to do the moral thing, we should support Ukraine far more than we have done so that Russia at least doesn't get rewarded for thrashing the international order, and ending and ruining millions of lives.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Because it's bad in both cases? What the hell.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Dictating, or offering?
NATO is an alliance that requires the entire bloc to vote on whether or not they'll accept a new member. Doesn't sound like dictating to me.
Azurmuth@reddit
Remember what the US did when Cuba asked the USSR for protection from the US?
ass_pineapples@reddit
I recall it was more about stationing nukes 50 miles from Florida, but what did the US do. Please educate me.
prostagma@reddit
After US nukes were stationed in Turkey. People always forget that part
Azurmuth@reddit
Cuba wanted nukes because it was afraid of a US invasion.
The US started an illegal blockade and planned an invasion.
geldwolferink@reddit
A yes because US did illegal invasion Russia can invade Europe.
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
Don’t break your own rules if you don’t want others doing it as well.
geldwolferink@reddit
So you would be ok with the EU sending in the tanks to st petersburg, got it.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Illegal blockade?
And they also did invade and attacked as a part of the Bay of Pigs and fucked around in Cuba with terrorist acts.
But yeah, remind me when the US engaged in all out war in Cuba and conquered Cuban territory please.
Azurmuth@reddit
The ”quarantine” was a blockade. Only the UNSC can lawfully start a blockade unless it’s in self defence.
They planned a full scale invasion.
ass_pineapples@reddit
And did they do it?
Because the comment is drawing a parallel to what we see happening in Ukraine, and it seems like both are quite different.
esjb11@reddit
They treated with nuclear war. Meanwhile they gladly station nukes in European Nato countries.
ass_pineapples@reddit
They dismantled the nukes in Turkey after the whole Cuban missile crisis.
Yeah, they do. It's a great hedge against Russia.
esjb11@reddit
Usa still have nukes in Turkey.
So when Russia fears for their security and Nato expansion they threaten with war. When America fears for their security they threaten with nuclear war. Therenis your answer.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Huh, Russia has repeatedly threatened nuclear war throughout its history. What are you smoking.
Yeah, they do. They have tactical nukes that were reinstated. The US secretly agreed to dismantling offensive nukes in Turkey post Cuban Missile Crisis. Probably put em back afterwards.
esjb11@reddit
I never denied that they did? Not cuba war levels tough but they definetly do
Fantastic-String5820@reddit
Ever find those WMDs?
ass_pineapples@reddit
Still looking
Tasgall@reddit
You should make sure you're talking with people who actually support US imperialism before using it as a whatabout excuse for Russian imperialism.
ChainExtremeus@reddit
Russia: invades countries.
Nato: expands to be safe from invasions.
Russia: stop expanding or i will invade you.
Nato: that is exactly why we expanding.
Gunbunny42@reddit
But...NATO expands regardless of what Russia does or doesn't do though.
IHateUsernames111@reddit
Since its formation in 1991 the Russian federation has started four invasions into neighboring countries.
To put this into perspective: Of their 34 years of existence they spent 18 invading neighbors.
Gunbunny42@reddit
Dude. Chechen was not an independent country at any point within living memory. I know you hate Russia and all but let's just not make up random stuff to fit a narrative okay?
Georgia was the one who started the war so frankly that's on them. However there are plenty of legitimate objections over how Russia handed the peace that followed.
Now the Ukraine war is a war of aggression and while that's still bad that's only one of the four mentioned where Russia was legitimately the aggressor.
IHateUsernames111@reddit
I don't hate Russia. I have a problem with leaders waging wars of aggression.
Since you don't like it when someone makes things up, which I think is a good base for discussions, let's look at Wikipedia about Georgia:
Russian backed rebels get cocky, start shooting, and suddenly the Russian army starts invading the rest of the country. Does that remind you of any other Russian war?
But for my point that doesn't actually matter. Also whether or not Chechnya was a country or region seeking independence doesn't matter:
Russia spent more time invading territories "around their borders" than not.
Tasgall@reddit
Saying "NATO expands" is kind of dishonest on the face of it, it implies they're taking territories or acting imperialisticly themselves, but NATO "expending" really means non-member states freely choosing to join the alliance.
And also, no, Russia invading Ukraine directly led to multiple countries joining NATO already who were not previously considering it.
Gunbunny42@reddit
So we're tone policing now? NATO expansion is a fact it wasn't an expansion by force true but it was an expansion nonetheless.
Drone30389@reddit
Why is that a problem? Joining NATO is entirely voluntary.
Terrh@reddit
Nato is a defensive military alliance and if Russia doesn't want people joining it, maybe they should stop invading countries around them?
Just an idea.
Gunbunny42@reddit
NATO as you just mentioned is a military Alliance not a homeless shelter. A country can't just walk up to Brussels and just ask to come in without having something to offer in return. And something tells me Estonia and Finland weren't allowed in because of their great powerhouse economies or their first class world renowned militaries.
So tell me why do nations like the United States or Great Britain whose security is in no way strengthened by these counties by Russia's borders would allow them into NATO?
IHateUsernames111@reddit
Because their security is strengthened by these countries joining NATO.
A war on your continent is never good for you whether you are (in)directly involved or not. It impacts trade, supply routes, flow of people and knowledge, etc.. We live in a very connected world and we have to accept that actions of near or big nations impact everyone whether they like it or not.
So UK and the rest of Europe doesn't benefit (directly) from the countries joining NATO, they profit from Russia not waging war against neighbors, which evidently is only possible by joining NATO...
ChainExtremeus@reddit
Ah yes, tell that to Finland and Sweden, as what was their reason to join NATO.
geldwolferink@reddit
except it doesn't, the latest addition, Sweden and Finland, famously neutral during the whole cold war, joined as a direct result of the Russian full invasion of Ukraine.
iNuminex@reddit
Damn, and here I thought glorious Russia was trying to help the Ukrainian people rid themselves of Nazis.
Turns out they just didn't want them to be able to defend themselves against the exact thing Russia is doing right now.
KronusTempus@reddit
Does it matter what the official casus belli is?
Soviets: don’t put nukes near us
USA: puts nukes in Turkey
Soviets: puts nukes in Cuba
USA: attacks Cuba
Russia: don’t put nukes near us
Poland: requests nukes from France to be stationed in Poland
Russia: to be determined…
Geopolitical realities exist wether you like them or not
s4b3r6@reddit
Russia: Take nukes out of Ukraine, and we'll never attack you.
Ukraine: Gives up nukes.
Russia: Attacks
Tasgall@reddit
A pattern that's remarkably consistent with every nation that agrees to voluntarily give up their nuclear weapons program.
And people wonder why North Korea won't give up their developments.
prostagma@reddit
They didn't have a nuclear program, they had nukes, but with their codes in Moscow. Which other countries gave up their nukes and got invaded, I'm drawing a blank?
IHateUsernames111@reddit
Assuming you mean the bay of pigs invasion: That happened well BEFORE the Cuban missile crisis.
bloobityblu@reddit
Yes. It does.
iNuminex@reddit
Yes, surprisingly, Putin lying does in fact matter in a thread about Putin telling lies. You can stop deflecting and derailing now.
Kawhi_Leonard_@reddit
Geopolitical realities are not justifications. We can recognize and try to understand why Russia chose this course of action, but that does not mean the actions they have taken are justified.
Sir_Dominus_II@reddit
I wonder why all these countries wanted to join NATO so bad :)
Were they forced to by the US?
fre-ddo@reddit
Yes join us and our hi-tech alliance that you can benefit from with equipment and training OR ELSE WE INVADE AND MAKE YOU BETTER!
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
So when will they attack Finland? St.Petersburg is within ATACMS range from the Finnish border.
BoysenberryNorth@reddit
After they done with Ukraine?
Tasgall@reddit
Probably the original plan, but they aren't going to invade a now NATO country.
geldwolferink@reddit
Unless they have reason to believe that article 5 is weak. eg like the US backing out right now.
geldwolferink@reddit
They won't because now Finland is in nato.
Tasgall@reddit
They won't stack Finland because they're a NATO member now, directly as a result of the invasion of Ukraine.
geldwolferink@reddit
you are missing the parts where Russia invades. Seriously after each military campaign by Russia others seek safety by joining nato. That's it. The whole reason d'etre of nato is protection from Russian invasion. look at the plain facts: country in nato: not invaded by Russia, countries outside nato: invaded by Russia.
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
This is from 2002: Notably, on a press conference on 28 May 2002 NATO Summit, president Putin was asked about Ukraine's intention to join NATO and answered that "our position on expansion of NATO is known, but Ukraine should not stand aside of the global processes to strengthen the world security and, as a sovereign country, it's able to make its own choices in ensuring its security". He also added he "doesn't see anything controversial or hostile" in Ukraine's plans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–NATO_relations#NATO-Russia_Council
Tasgall@reddit
They didn't consider it "controversial" because at no point until the invasion has Ukraine ever considered joining NATO. Not even after the invasion of Crimea in 2014.
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
Did you read this part?: Ukraine should not stand aside of the global processes to strengthen the world security and, as a sovereign country, it's able to make its own choices in ensuring its security"
ztuztuzrtuzr@reddit
Poland literally black mailed the us to join NATO it didn't really expand as much as let other countries join.
vegetable_completed@reddit
Why should Russia care if a neighbouring country joins NATO? If NATO had designs on Russia or wanted to thwart its geopolitical plans, it wouldn’t need Ukraine or Georgia to assist it.
The only reason I can see for objecting to NATO “expansion” is if Russia wanted to reserve the option to invade the countries applying to join, which, incidentally, is obviously the main reason they want to join in the first place.
ppmi2@reddit
Nah, there wasnt any such promise.
EcstaticTreacle2482@reddit
NATO only exists because of Russian belligerence. If Russia doesn’t want NATO to expand their DEFENSIVE alliance, they should fuck off back to their own borders.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
When this war doesn’t affect you and you don’t acknowledge the consequences of it, yes. That is exactly what people want to happen.
nonviolent_blackbelt@reddit
Putin was given any number of offramps where he could stop the conflict. Even now, if he stopped fighting and withdrew to the 1991 borders of Ukraine, the war would be over, and normalisation of relations with the world would commence. Nobody would insist on Russia disintegrating.
But the Russian leadership insists that that is the aim of everybody who defends Ukraine, because only that way they can convince their population that they're actually fighting for Russia's benefit and not for it's imperial ambitions.
lightningbadger@reddit
The wars only going to prevent Ukraine from disappearing/ disintegrating bear in mind
Russia can stop this at any time
headshotmonkey93@reddit
How can Russia be sure the sanctions will be lifted after they stop?
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
They can be sure they won't be lifted until they stop. Wtf kind of question is that? The sanctions were a punishment for invading
headshotmonkey93@reddit
Of course they were. But I think Russia needs to have a sure contract that they will be lifted after they left. Otherwise they might think, they leave and they are still pushed down for childish reasons.
FullConfection3260@reddit
Because we all know that post-war sanctions on the people are what helped lead to WWII
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
Russia is not Germany after WW1, and the situation would be nothing alike the Treaty of Versailles. The comparison is ludicrous.
FullConfection3260@reddit
Yet everyone says the russian economy is on the brink of collapse 🙄 So, yes, it’s the same thing. You deprive the populace of return to normalcy and you are going to get WWIII
HamunaHamunaHamuna@reddit
I bet everyone does NOT say that you're NOT a Russian shill, because it is hard to see how you could reach that conclusion with an honest disposition towards reality and history.
FullConfection3260@reddit
What you’re doing is forcing russia into a hole, and it’s pretty obvious you can’t see the resemblance to post WWI Germany. But I am sure you want to see that great bolshevik uprising, and see what happens when chaos with nukes occurs because you helped replace one dictator with an even worse one.
Enjoy the block though, Comrade Shilling 🙄
Maardten@reddit
Nobody is forcing Russia to do anything. They can end this conflict today by just going home.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
The lesson we need to learn is to be ready for Russia to launch further wars of conquest. Europe already tried having cordial economic integration and Russia tried to use it as leverage to demand periodic tributes of land. After this war we need to wall them off, man the border, and revisit the whole arrangement when the current generation is gone and they're no longer so hell bent on aggressive expansionism.
FullConfection3260@reddit
“Current generation”
Good luck waiting 50 years for that.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
If that's what it takes then that's what it takes. I'd prefer to see Russia transition to a less dangerous neighbour but realistically there's nothing anyone outside Russia can do to make that happen. Right now any concessions and economic reliance will be used as leverage for more imperialism.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Sanctions aren't childish, they're regular pragmatism to try to reduce their ability to wage war, and to set an important precedent that wars of conquest are expensive for the invader.
Tasgall@reddit
This is kind of a dumb assertion that ignores a lot of factors of reality - such as that this isn't why Russia isn't leaving, that Russia wouldn't agree to leave given assurance that sanctions were lifted, that the only sure outcome is that the sanctions won't be lifted if they don't leave, and the sad reality that they really don't deserve such assurances at this point anyway.
The only faction that can choose to end the war is Russia. Ukraine doesn't have that option without subjecting their people to potential genocide.
DefinitelyNotMeee@reddit
"without subjecting their people to potential genocide" - that's a bit reaching, isn't it?
BrewerBeer@reddit
Ukrainians are already being subjected to genocide. Ukrainian children being taken away from their parents and adopting them into Russian families is one of the definitions of genocide. The mass graves they've created by murdering entire villages and replacing them with Russians is genocide. Half of this thread is fucking Russian apologists, what the fuck?!?!
Literally the only way they stop THE CURRENT GENOCIDE is to fight back. Until Russia STOPS THEIR GENOCIDE of course Ukraine isnt going to stop defending themselves. TO STOP IS TO LET THEMSELVES BE MURDERED. Are you fucking daft?! Get out of here you fascist fuck.
apfelhaus08@reddit
The only genocide that's happening is in gaza, though Syria is also getting there right now after the new regime took over.
What happens in Ukraine is de facto that the president sacrificed multiple millions of his people so he can stay in power.
If he had stepped down then yes, there'd have been pro Russian TV and radio, as well as politicians getting Russian corruption money, but if that's worse than literally dozens of millions being forcefully conscripted to their death, while the other half flees across Europe is up for debate. I personally don't think so
Staticn0ise@reddit
You a Russian bot? You sound like a Russian bot.
vl0x@reddit
Are you being serious right now?
FeijoadaAceitavel@reddit
Starting a fucking war by invading another country is a "childish reason" to punish a country with sanctions?
ultnie@reddit
As russian, I personally kind of accepted that EU sanctions won't be lifted in the next decade or so at least, no matter the outcome of the war or the president my country of origin will have (if it will even have another one in a decade). Country to country ones are debatable, but the ones that are union level are here to stay.
DemonicArthas@reddit
I really hope you're wrong. As the other commenter said, EU was really hesitant on sanctions, for one reason or another. So if we were to show them that we really are turning a new leaf, they would see that, right? Like, imagine we would elect a woman president, somehow. I know it seems naive, but still.
lonelyMtF@reddit
How can Ukraine be sure that Russia won't attack them again after the sanctions are lifted?
headshotmonkey93@reddit
They can‘t. But Russia will be out of the country, so it would a double loss situation for Russia. First they backed off, secondly sanctions still not lifted.
AccelRock@reddit
Russia will just resume attacking if demands aren't met, or if they feel like it.
geldwolferink@reddit
They never even asked or tried.
lightningbadger@reddit
What? The sanctions were punishment for Russia deciding to just take a country, they shouldn't even need to consider these in their decision to stop ruining people's lives
Ok_Art6263@reddit
The fact that it took US, UK, and EU ages to even get their shit remotely together because they believe that Russia will wisen the fuck up and stop the war and everything returns ante bellum, like most of their military aid are there so Ukraine can survive the war, not make them win the war so they don't actually destroys Russia, not to mention orange man's attempts to force Ukraine into concessions.
Russia will get their shit unsanctioned like as soon as they pulls out their troops.
Paltamachine@reddit
And what would stop the Ukrainians from preparing to attack another time?
AvocadoWilling1929@reddit
Did you mean to say Russians instead of Ukrainians? There's no universe in which Ukraine starts a war with Russia.
sqlfoxhound@reddit
LMAO
Paltamachine@reddit
Don't evade the question.
This is no longer about who is to blame or what Russia should do. Whether out of expediency or malice.. russia can tolerate no other behavior other than denying it the ability to respond going forward.. it is a reality.
sqlfoxhound@reddit
I dont think you are equipped to talk about reality when you figured it was a good idea to ask that question
Paltamachine@reddit
It is this attitude that will lead to the ruin not only of Ukraine, but of the rest of Europe.
Glass-Shock5882@reddit
It is this attitude which has caused the problems and the complete rejection of reality for a post truth world.
sqlfoxhound@reddit
My attitude is grounded in reality.
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
The bigger question is what's would stop Chile from invading America?
Paltamachine@reddit
Russia can stop this at any time
Do you really believe that?, And what would stop the Ukrainians from preparing to attack another time?
Minister_for_Magic@reddit
Imagine Pakistan invaded Kashmir and kept lying to the world about what it was doing. What stance would you be taking if you were India?
geldwolferink@reddit
What do you suggest to stop a murderer? Letting the murderer murder?
AlbertoRossonero@reddit
False equivalency yawn
mrgoobster@reddit
Yeah, it's far worse than murder.
27Rench27@reddit
Just a little bit of murder is okay if he says he won’t keep doing murder
geldwolferink@reddit
"it's just a prank bro" he sad while stabbing someone dead.
MissingBothCufflinks@reddit
There are no alternatives - what does it mean to agree to a peace that only you honour? That's just total capitulation (and therefore destruction)
AlexOzerov@reddit
What did he lie about? Ukraine did everything to make this war happen. Don't pretend like they are innocent. There was no attempt from Zelensky to prevent it. He started talking about NATO, then nuclear weapons, then bombing Donbas even more. But what do I know
Pdiddydondidit@reddit
do russians really believe in these bullshit arguments? putin is trying his best to make russia the victim
Tasgall@reddit
He started talking about NATO after Russia invaded. Before that, Ukraine was staunch in its apartment of Russia by intentionally not seeking to join NATO.
You need to stop uncritically believing everything you hear from RT.
Literally nothing, apparently.
AlexOzerov@reddit
Zelensky bwas talking about NATO, NATO was talking about accepting Ukraine. But apparently it's just my imagination
historicusXIII@reddit
So Sweden and Finland are next then?
AlexOzerov@reddit
Pretty stupid to compare Ukraine to Sweden or Finland. Aside from the obvious size and population, they don't have a big Russian population, strategic importance and crazy amounts of resources. And they would join NATO eventually anyway. They pretty much were unofficialy in NATO for years. Ukraine after 2014 military coup became an enemy to Russia, to Russian people in Ukraine. Ukraine's regime is built on the nationalist ideas. The nazi thing they have going on is not just some Russian propaganda. If country names streets, builds monuments, in honor of Nazi collaborators, this country can't be called normal or democratic. The argument that you can find nazis in any country is bullshit, the scale of the problem and government support make all the difference. Putin didn't make Stepan Bandera a Ukranian hero.
GrandviewHive@reddit
See Minks 1 and 2
Drone30389@reddit
Donbass is Ukrainian.
Joining NATO is Ukraine's choice.
tu_tu_tu@reddit
Yeah it was necessary to show them how to bomb Donbas FOR REAL.
AntonioVivaldi7@reddit
So he didn't actually do anything and Putin invaded without being attacked.
GrandviewHive@reddit
It's hilarious to me how Germans view the historical events in isolation, purging any notion of continueum. Yet again on the wrong side of history.
That's oversimplified regurgitation of propaganda that covers eyes and ears instead of exploring how the world works must be good for your mental health but doesn't let you be curious.
dariy1999@reddit
Bro no way you just said that russia is on the right side of history with everything they did in the last 25y
GrandviewHive@reddit
No love for Russia here yet your bedmates are wolves. You're a sheeo choosing between wolves and bear.
Look at what you allies have done in Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Libya, Syria and tell me that's the right side of history. And that's only this century, Africa and South America, Vietnam, in the last century. We've seen same playbook applied in Ukraine to excite your right sector and the ordinary people pay while they chill in Dubai.
Now U.S.A. will sell Ukraine out after they've used you, you'll be traded to buy grace from Russia to distance it from Iran because they're the next stop for the Zionists. They'll strip you of infrastructure, land, assets. You'll only own the land where the soldiers are burried if BlackRock has its way.
QuackingMonkey@reddit
And Australians continue to live in an upside down view of reality?
It'd be much better for mental health to keep your head in the sand and believe that this is a righteous war instead of the horrors of reality.
Ironshallows@reddit
yes, and, the reality is, there was no agreement by either or both sides, just a talk about it being agreed to. this is fake news.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Thats some deep analysis bro. Okay for commoner, but it seems your genius politicians believe such stuff too, which is chilly.
mooman555@reddit
Lets see yours
Dizzy_Response1485@reddit
Russian politicians' analyses:
CautiousPlatypusBB@reddit
How far we've come from Lenin's party, holy shit
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Not care enough here to bother, you can search my comment history if you are curious guy, it will certainly appear somewhere.
tonihurri@reddit
As usual, the average ruskie doesn't believe in fuck all.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
I think you freedom people already starting to feel how it really works, arent you?
tonihurri@reddit
Nice words with absolutely no meaning behind them. There is a reason you people have a reputation of corruption and not being capable of caring for anything other than personal gain.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
And the reason is you have severe reddit intoxication. Go touch some grass hot guy ;3
mooman555@reddit
Classic
haplo34@reddit
Wrong sub to try your propaganda bro, better go over to r/worldnews or smth.
SneakyIslandNinja@reddit
Pot calling the kettle black.
Pklnt@reddit
It is pretty clear that both actually do not want a genuine cease-fire and they're only talking about it in the hopes of achieving one that would only make them the biggest winner.
Pretty much this.
xXxSlavWatchxXx@reddit
War would be over three years ago, if putin and russians decide they don't wanna murder, torture, rape and behead Ukrainians anymore.
Pklnt@reddit
We're talking about ceasing the current hostilities, not preventing a war.
xXxSlavWatchxXx@reddit
Again, russia could stop any day, and the war will too. Ukraine agreed to 30 day complete ceasefire for air, sea and land. A whole weeks ago. Russia didn't, russia is too interested in sending hundreds of drones and missiles against Ukrainian civilians and such, as well as thousands of their men to death every day, just so putin can be more pleased with his empire.
Pklnt@reddit
Ukraine agreed to a 30 day ceasefire because they were on the backfoot after getting kicked out of Kursk because of a lack of US support.
It's pretty fucking obvious that Ukraine would never consider a ceasefire a possibility if they were in a position of strength because their territories would still be occupied by an invading force.
What Ukraine is doing is asking for a ceasefire that allows them to buy more time to rearm and prepare for more hostilities.
What Russia is doing is asking for a ceasefire that allows them to weaken Ukraine while they rearm and prepare fore more hostilities.
There is zero indication that both states are willing to stop the current hostilities for good, they are only doing so because they believe the temporary cease-fire will allow them to be in a much better situation once it ends.
xXxSlavWatchxXx@reddit
With that, I can agree. Though I would say that Ukraine at this moment could take a ceasefire even while russia occupies their territories, in exchange for security guarantees, continuation of military aid and without recognition of occupied lands as "new russia" or some shit.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
If Ukraine doesn’t want a ceasefire, they are more than welcome to keep fighting.
They will just continue this process of kidnapping guys off the street, throwing them into battle, and they are either killed or immediately surrender.
xXxSlavWatchxXx@reddit
yall "Human right activists" only ever talk about Ukrainian soliders being "thrown into battle to be killed" and never even mention russian "disposable infantry" that's being sent into meat assaults (the name given by russian soldiers themselves). Because nothing says "we want peace and ceasefire for sure!" more than sending meat assault stormtrooper waves every single day.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
Y’all Ukrainians only ever talk about the war when you aren’t the ones fighting it.
In fact, you are probably safe in Berlin or something.
It’s pretty easy to get fucked in your ass when it’s not your ass getting fucked.
And this war has been going on for 3 years?
They are always the ones not fighting, who have run away, and who don’t have to face any consequences.
xXxSlavWatchxXx@reddit
Ad hominem.
Also, please see a therapist. You really seem bent on ass fucking subject, I'm there's some trauma involved.
Pklnt@reddit
You know full well that Russia will never allow that and they'll keep pushing.
Russia on the other hand will only propose a cease-fire that benefits them. Like here where they tout stopping strikes on energy infrastructure because it's a bigger problem for Russia than Ukraine.
Stanislovakia@reddit
Given Ukraine hasn't yet weighed in on whether or not the proposed "energy and infrastructure" ceasefire plan, im not sure why it would be 'at odds with reality.'
Theres no deal made yet, why would they stop attacks before anything has been signed? Did Ukraine stop fighting when Zelensky proposed their ceasefire? Why would Russia do any different?
Putin and Trumps phone conversation is nothing more then an early negotiation. For example, what does "infrastruture" even entail? Is it only energy infrastructure? Is it roadways? Bridges? Factories? Airports? Ports? What about dual use infrastructure?
All of this needs to be ironed out before any deal is made, and of course Ukraine needs to participate and accept or decline.
This is a nothing burger and posturing on behalf of Ukraine. Theres no deal to speak of yet.
Mundane_Emu8921@reddit
So Ukraine wasn’t in favor of a ceasefire then? Why did they say they were?
s4b3r6@reddit
Because Putin said he'd already given the order to stop. He said one thing. His military did another.
crusadertank@reddit
Almost, the strikes were already in the air by the time the order was given. Russia shot some of them down but not all of them.
Once those drones are in the air, nothing is stopping them except shooting them down
Stanislovakia@reddit
This is a good point. Is there a transcript of what he said? Because all that was released was "the President gave relevant orders to the military."
Additionally, is there reports of hits o nenergy infrastructure? I have for the most part only seen the reported hits on the hospitals.
LimpConversation642@reddit
my eyes got bigger the longer I read your comment but then I realized you don't read our telegram channels. So it goes like this: huge propaganda pieces (news) come out today stating putin gave out an order to stop attacks and the might russian AA shot down 7 of its own drones that were already flying to destroy an oil refinery (I'm not joking, this was the news). By RIA news if you're interested to check. The news explicitly stated it was a direct order from huilo himself.
What happened in reality is the town of Slovyansk was heavily bombed yesterday and it's out of power today.
asking for some transcripts is a weird way of saying 'I don't believe it, prove me wrong', why would there be transcripts of higher-up military secret orders? do you often see transcripts of putin's orders or something?
Stanislovakia@reddit
Transcripts of what was said in the meeting between Putin and Trump, not of the "secret military orders".
The press release on the Kremlin website stated only that "relevant orders were given to the military." It is unclear exactly what this means, as it just as easily could mean "be ready to halt in case of ceasefire" as it could be "halt energy attacks now".
"News and Media" in Russia might as well be entertainment channels. They don't speak for the state, and are constantly regurgitating vomit, so taking their words are state policy is strange.
What matters is what was actually agreed upon. Was it simply an agreement that stipulated that further negotiations would take place? Or was there further promises for an immediate ceasefire from Russia's side even prior to a Ukrainian agreement to the deal?
I have not scourded telegram today, call it a breakfast, so the Slovyansk power situation was indeed missed.
lestofante@reddit
Trump said they reached this decision and would take effect immediately, publicly and that made international headlines.
If that was a lie, why Putin did not make a public statement to clarify what is going on?
Putin silence is a confirmation he want people to believe he made such promise, or that he does not care at all.
fiddler013@reddit
You’re gonna rely on what Trump said? It’s not Putin’s job or business to keep correcting all Trump keeps spouting or he would get nothing else done in a day.
LimpConversation642@reddit
there was no agreement. no one agreed to anything. that's the whole point — it's not something ANY of the sides shaked hands upon, but russians already started lying about it. So with one hand they claim to generously stop the bombings when in reality today was actually quite bad (they also hit a hospital in Sumy).
That's the whole point of the article and people trying to get across — they lie even before any agreement is reached, and by proxy they contradict themselves since he 'ordered' to stop but in reality it only escalated. Which obviously didn't happen. What Zelenskiy is saying is that it's enough to look at how they hold their own 'vows' and 'orders' even before any agreement is there
And by the way, RIA is not entertainment channel, it's a state propaganda news outlet, so whatever they spew you can be sure it's state sanctioned and approved.
Stanislovakia@reddit
This was my whole point as well.
It may not be as unhinged as other Russian media, but it still doesnt speak for the state. Hence many Russians refer to said channels and programs as entertainment rather then news, especially in the past few years due to growing distrust.
The Kremlin press release of the meeting only said this on the topic: During the conversation, Donald Trump put forward a proposal for the parties to mutually refrain from strikes on energy infrastructure for 30 days. Vladimir Putin responded favourably to the proposal and immediately gave the relevant order to the Russian troops.
No other information or context on said order, or further steps.
lestofante@reddit
There was no agreement on treaty, but Trump made clear there was an agreement about the energy infrastructure, even if just verbal.
Putin did not deny it.
prismstein@reddit
this sub has been a tankie sub since 2023, save your breath
Vithar@reddit
"Relevant orders" could easily be, orders contingent on an agreement being reached. Doesn't mean it was the orders.
Stanislovakia@reddit
I agree which is why im hoping some further info or a transcript can be released.
27Rench27@reddit
There’s a reason Zelensky had to field Trump and Vance in front of cameras and reporters while Putin takes Trump behind closed doors for discussions. We’re not seeing that transcript
TechnicianOk9795@reddit
And you accuse Russia has broken this statement of not attacking energy infra already because you and Zelensky predicts so?
BurialA12@reddit
ukraine sent hundreds of drone 9/11 style to Moscow the day they "accepted" Rubio's ceasefire plan
lestofante@reddit
Ukraine did not accept anything at that time, and this "9/11 style attack" did only 2 victims according russia. We also saw images of them hitting something that did a big explosion, probably some weapon cache.
Russian are hitting hospital and houses at 30-40 minute distance, xobfirming it was a intended target and not a navigation error/intercept, and when the first responder are on the scene to maximise civilian damage.
Do not try yo play the card "but both bad", Russian side is clearly more violent and deliberately breaking war law.
Iliyan61@reddit
putin said he’d stop attacks and he didn’t.
this isn’t a nothing burger it’s just putin being a scumbag as per.
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/18/politics/trump-putin-ceasefire-russia-ukraine-war/index.html
there literally was a deal that putin ignored instantly.
Intelligent_Diet_257@reddit
There's just one thing I can't understand. When Ukraine insisted on a ceasefire "on land, sea and air," it was realistic, but now that Russia has agreed not to strike energy infrastructure under a treaty (which Ukraine hasn't yet accepted), it's no longer realistic. How does it work?
LimpConversation642@reddit
because we stand by our words and promises unlike you ? crazy how the world can trust us to honor a deal but not russians, and only trump is okay with that.
There was literally a RIA article about how huilo himself ordered to stop the attacks and the mighty AA and fighter pilots shot 7 drones out of the sky to save our crumbling energy sector. So how does it work? Making up fake news like at the same time the cities are being bombed, huh?
Intelligent_Diet_257@reddit
Yes, you are especially trustworthy. Especially after the Minsk agreements and the previous ceasefire proposal, after which 300 drones flew to Moscow.
nothingpersonnelmate@reddit
Wait, they sent drones to Moscow despite a ceasefire... not being in place? What's the issue?
Intelligent_Diet_257@reddit
I have no problem with this. The problem is with the person who answered me. The new treaty has not yet entered into force, but Russia is already being accused of violating it. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
Says the invader
Boner-Salad728@reddit
No its me who is invader, he is just usual guy.
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
I don’t believe countries that invade others for “defensive” reasons.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
You should try to focus your beam of unbelieving and stop the illegal weaponised invasion with it
Toldasaurasrex@reddit
I beams a little weak, can you shove you finger up my bum so I can get my beam up?
Boner-Salad728@reddit
I thought you will never ask.
Here you go, buddy. * choink *
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Trump is the only person whos “okay or not okay with that” matters. Especially for you, boys.
And you are doing a great job putting him on your side. Keep it up!
Thatsidechara_ter@reddit
Because Russia isn't abiding by it
chillichampion@reddit
Abiding by what? Ukraine hasn’t agreed to the ceasefire yet.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Russia launched missiles at infrastructure an hour after the declaration.
That does not make it seem like Russia is engaging in this in good faith, similarly to how they've performed in the past.
Stanislovakia@reddit
There is no deal made, theres nothing to abide by. Did Ukraine cease fighting when they proposed their ceasefire a few weeks ago? Why would Russia do any different.
Its a war, there is no good faith.
historicusXIII@reddit
Yet you can bet that if Ukraine were to hit Russia's oil infrastructure now, Putin and Trump would whine how Zelensky isn't interested in peace.
chillichampion@reddit
They’d be correct. Zelensky isn’t interested in peace.
Drone30389@reddit
Russia invaded Ukraine. Russia could leave at any time.
chillichampion@reddit
Ukraine invaded donbass. They can leave anytime and have peace.
Drone30389@reddit
Donbass is Ukrainian.
chillichampion@reddit
Not according to Russia and the people living there.
Drone30389@reddit
So?
27Rench27@reddit
Not the peace being offered, I’m sure he’d love if Russia fucked off out of Crimea and Ukraine could start rebuilding.
There shouldn’t be a penalty of “you have to disarm, stop accepting aid, give us land we don’t even occupy at the moment on top of what we do occupy, and America gets half your mineral rights” for the crime of being invaded
Boner-Salad728@reddit
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-03-19/drones-set-fire-to-russian-oil-depot-near-damaged-cpc-station
Okay, they hit Russia’s oil infrastructure on march 19. Now go fond some whining of our two most popular men in the world.
Stanislovakia@reddit
There was a drone attack on Moscow on the same day that the Trump-Zelensky ceasefire was proposed.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Sure, agreed. I just don't think that Ukraine was as blatant about violating it immediately after.
They could have easily waited 24h to get a response before launching an attack, wouldn't have really made a difference given this conflict has been going on for...11 years now.
esjb11@reddit
Ehm ukraine launched their biggest attack on Moscow just a few hours before giving the offer.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Before seems a bit more important as a qualifying word than 'after'. They didn't know what the outcome of that meeting was going to be, esp. considering the Trump admin was pretty destructive the last time they'd met.
esjb11@reddit
He knew there would be talks. He knew it would be on the table. He knew what he was willing to offer. And the attack achieved zero military goals. All it did was damage some civilian buildings. He could easily with your own argument have postponed it. He knows well it makes it harder for Russia to agree.
There is no difference in this regard with before and after. Aa you say. Waiting 24 hours wouldnt have made a difference. And in neither case was the ceasefire actually implemented by the time of the attack. And its not like ukraine have launched attacks after the offer aswell
What matters if it its gets broken after its implemented.
ass_pineapples@reddit
It has military, political, and civil goals achieved. Pressure on Putin and populace to accept it to avoid attacks in Moscow, a demonstration of Ukraine's capabilities, etc.
He didn't know what the outcome of the meeting would be, anything could be proposed. It's a wholly different situation to say 'hey I want peace' and then launching a massive infrastructure attack.
Zelensky didn't break any ceasefire agreement after it was proposed, Putin did even if Ukraine didn't agree yet. Putin literally made it harder, Zelensky has that plausible deniability.
Boner-Salad728@reddit
Every such demonstration of ukraine capabilities and attempts at pressure only result in donations to Ru army spikes and retaliatory strikes. It hurts Ukraine much more than Russia, yet they are still trying it.
esjb11@reddit
Those goals never work. We have seen time and time again how attacks on the country make people really around the flag. Not be against it. Look on brittain during ww2. If the Vietnamese flied airplanes into buildings in the US, do you think they would be more for or against the Vietnam war?
No. Again, he knew what would be on the table. Putin also dont know the outcome. He does not know if the deal will be accepted or not.
Also zelenskys offer was a general ceasefire. They have done normal attacks aswell. Its not like the Ukrainians stopped fighting after the ceasefire so with your argument they also broke it after.
Also we still havent even seen any actual energy infrastructure being struck. Just.zlenskys claims. I wouldnt be suprised however since the deal isnt implemented and its still fair targets.
Stanislovakia@reddit
The full ceasefire proposed on March 11th by Trump and Zelensky was the same day as Ukraine's largest ever drone attack on Moscow.
I don't think anyone blinked an eye at that one, or even realized the days corresponded.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/11/world/europe/ukraine-us-saudi-cease-fire-talks.HTML
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-launches-drone-attacks-targeting-moscow-russia-says-2025-03-11/
Plus the follow up attack on the 14th.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Thanks for the sources. Yeah not a great look!
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
That would be analogous to Russia launching the largest strike on energy infrastructure hours before proposing a ceasefire. Don't think it would have been a better look.
ass_pineapples@reddit
Absolutely would have looked different. It would have been more of the same, rather than a strike immediately after discussions.
It's a typical putin power play
zeigdeinepapiere@reddit
Technically it would have been different yeah, but do you genuinely believe it would have been a better look? Launching the largest strike on energy infrastructure hours before offering a ceasefire. Would have been a clear, indefensible display of bad faith. I'm pretty sure people would have been at Russia's throat much more than they are now.
Ukraine had already decided to offer a ceasefire at least a day before the actual talks took place - it's not like they launched the largest drone attack on Moscow and then just happened to make up their minds about a ceasefire a few hours later. It was the other way around.
Stanislovakia@reddit
Both right before the talks and a little bit after them with follow up strikes.
But witherway, realistically noones stopping their war prior to an actual deal being signed.
ass_pineapples@reddit
For sure
Kawhi_Leonard_@reddit
Did you read the article, or just the headline?
They already broke the supposed agreement they had with Trump. That's why it is not seen as realistic.
Intelligent_Diet_257@reddit
I read it. But it can't be called a violation of the agreement, it hasn't even entered into force yet. Ukraine also attacked infrastructure that night and that is also not considered a violation.
DontBuyMeGoldGiveBTC@reddit
this:
if he says, in talks about a treaty, that he is not going to do something, while he is at the same time doing it and about to continu doing it, he is lying, and it shows bad faith. that is what they're talking about.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
It's easy to figure out who is lying. You just need to name the energy facility that was hit.
geldwolferink@reddit
is that the new Russian cope?
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
What does Russia needs to cope with?
ass_pineapples@reddit
Ukraine wasn't a part of the conversation, first of all.
Second of all, Russia is negotiating in bad faith if they say that they're willing to engage in this ceasefire, and then violate the proposed terms immediately.
Vassago81@reddit
Where in the article do you get that they "violated the proposed term" on attack on energy infra?
From the article
esjb11@reddit
Its not a violation before it starts... Its not like ukraine stopped all military actions after offering a full 30 day ceasefire. Thats not how it works. You stop shooting AFTER they are implemented,.not before.
Mujichael@reddit
Bro cmon. If Americans can see past Trumps propaganda, there is no excuse for you not to see through Putins
FRcomes@reddit
> If Americans can see past Trumps propaganda,
So you chose him twice, right?
Kawhi_Leonard_@reddit
Again, it's in the article we are talking about. Russia is lying about stopping the attacks on energy facilities. Ukraine responded with equal attacks, and I'd remind you, was not a part of the negotiations we are talking about.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
Which energy facility was hit?
zackks@reddit
Apparently google
-OhHiMarx-@reddit
Didn't find which energy infrastructure was hit. Which one?
zackks@reddit
Apparently google
Boner-Salad728@reddit
It still works, so it seems google energy infrastructure wasnt hit.
LimpConversation642@reddit
Slovyansk lost power today.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
So which energy facility in Slovyansk was hit?
Yes, it was not covered by the discussed ceasfire
LimpConversation642@reddit
one of the Slovyansk' electric substations.
oh wait I just realized you're a prorussian idiot, why am I even bothering. Fuck off.
s4b3r6@reddit
Being launched, does not mean that they were successful.
However most were concentrated in the Mykolaiv region.
Lopsided-Selection85@reddit
I'm sure that there are energy facilities in Mykolaiv, and the same way I'm sure that there are non-energy facilities in Mykolaiv. Unless and energy facility was hit, or something was intercepted on a final approach, how on Earth would Ze know if energy facilities were targeted?
s4b3r6@reddit
Trajectory is not some unsolved science... Most Russian drones use a swarming system. They approach from multiple angles, and that paints a pretty damn good picture of what the target is.
You aren't shooting them down at the launchpad - so you know where they were headed.
esjb11@reddit
So what place was being targeted?
s4b3r6@reddit
Feel free to explore the battlefield, if you require firsthand knowledge.
esjb11@reddit
You were the one maning claims seeming that you know. Something tells me you only base it on zelenskys statements.
s4b3r6@reddit
I am basing things on official announcements.
The alternative would be a soldier giving out critical intelligence information, during an active war... Which seems like it would be treason. And again, if you need the information of a traitor, feel free to go to the battlefield to find it.
esjb11@reddit
I bet you believe the Russia official announcements aswell then
s4b3r6@reddit
Considering that Russia's official announcements have rarely aligned with what they themselves say a week later, there is further credence given to the other side.
But I called it a war. Russia tends to avoid using that term, preferring to still call it a special military operation. Perhaps you could sign up? They do so need more bodies for the grinder.
esjb11@reddit
Both sides have made a massive habit out of lying in official statements.
s4b3r6@reddit
I can't find a lot of information on Ukraine lying.
I can find Donald accusing him, and two years ago Klitschko saying there was a lie. And that's about it.
That's not exactly the same as Putin.
esjb11@reddit
Let me give you some examples then. Ghost off Kyiev, Snake Island, Strike on polish tractor, strike on highrise building in Lviv. Reporting less deaths than confirmed by OSINT. Denying the fall of bakhmut for months after its confirmed by geolocation. Should I go on?
esjb11@reddit
Its not implemented yet... Both sides needs to agree
Stanislovakia@reddit
There is no agreement yet, its a negotiation for a future agreement. Ukraine is yet to weigh in and accept or decline and things haven't been ironed out in general.
t0FF@reddit
Putin wants the Ukrainians to refrain from targeting his source of income, but will resume targeting Ukrainian energy as soon as the next winter makes Ukraine vulnerable.
That's the art of the deal by Trump...
RasJamukha@reddit
the things you stuff in your mouth might be intelligent but what comes out sure isn't
awesomesonofabitch@reddit
Russian is scum, and so are you, bud.
CourtofTalons@reddit
I came here to say exactly this. Ukraine indeed requested a ceasefire like this.
DeaglanOMulrooney@reddit
doublespeak
SkipEyechild@reddit
America keep saying peace is incoming but it's absolute nonsense. He has no intention of stopping.
sebastianrosca@reddit
Quid pro quo? So basically, Putin decided to give the middle finger to Donald because he is so chad. Meanwhile ukr, with their 110% drone interception rate, decided to let a few drones pass, just to prove that Putin gives the middle finger to Trump.
It's either one of 2 cases. Somebody from the rus army had no clue regarding Putin's order and he will probably fall from a balcony somewhere. 2. Ukr saw an opportunity to show Putin as a liar and they orchestrated this PR stunt. We have no proof that something was hit. All we know is words.
In order for Putin to dazzle Trump, it' really important for Putin to appear invincible. He can't be seen as some loser that asks the generals. The generals ask him. Probably during the phone call he just waved his hand at somebody and said stop energy attacks and then continued the call and said "done". He needs to maintain this impression, since he doesn't apologize. He can't come before Trump and say I'm sorry, I tried, but the generals don't listen. If the attack did happen and questions are asked, Putin will just reply : I made sure it will never happen again.
This sub is slowly becoming r/worldnews. Where anything UKR is god and anything russia is satan.
Putin_Is_Daddy@reddit
This is what mental illness looks like, kids
sebastianrosca@reddit
Says the bot
Somestunned@reddit
This is a common theme now. When your actions do not align with your words, it should be interpreted as an intentional aggression.
The idea seems to be to trick your adversary into taking issue with your words, inevitably using their own words to do so. But actually they should be taking issue with your actions, using their own actions to do so.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
Maintainer | Creator | Source Code
Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 40 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
voz.us (Right): "Zelenski declares that in Moscow "they are unwilling to end this war" following the limited truce announced by Trump and Putin"
Financial Times (Center): "Zelenskyy to talk to Trump after Russia continues strikes on Ukraine"
Associated Press News (Leans Left): "Ukrainian leader Zelenskyy to speak with Trump after US president's ceasefire talks with Putin"
Of all the sources reporting on this story, 27% are left-leaning, 23% are right-leaning, and 50% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 40+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.
I’m a bot. Read here to learn how it works or message us with any feedback so we can improve the bot for you.
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