Israel launches waves of strikes on Gaza with more than 400 reportedly killed

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Zionist bingo:

"Hamas started the war" "They are terrorists" "Just say you hate Jews" "You're an antisemite" "Release the hostages" "Stop using human shields" "There aren't any innocents in Gaza"

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"Every casualty in Gaza is an innocent person" "Oct 7 was justified" "From the River to the Sea doesn't mean destroy Israel" "Resistance is justified no matter what, even against babies and 80 year old women" "no one was raped on Oct 7" "The hostages actually like their captors in Gaza" "Hamas is the good guys except when they're not and then only because Israel started Hamas" "Go back to Brooklyn"

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catador_de_potos@reddit

"Go back to Brooklyn"

Unironically

Jesus your propaganda is so bad it just helps radicalizing people even more against Israel. Keep typing, I want to see what else you can pull out of your ass.

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Zipz@reddit

So wait what he wrote is propaganda but what you wrote isn’t ?

How does that work?

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catador_de_potos@reddit

I haven't said I'm not doing propaganda. Any political statement that you make with the intention of influencing other's people opinion qualifies as propaganda.

What I'm saying is that making effective propaganda is a skill that the average Zionist does not have. Either that, or that whatever the fuck Israel is doing on Palestine is so evil and so blatant that even silence would be more effective at convincing people that it is not a genocide.

From what I've seen, both are true.

You can't hide a genocide forever. The veil has already been lifted and people have started to see with their own eyes the crimes of Israel. And luckily enough, the average person isn't as gullible as you guys would want them to be.

For example, trying to deflect any criticism against Israel as antisemitism is backfiring on Zionists, as most decent people won't start justifying a genocide just because you're Jew lol if anything, it has backfire, as I've starting to see the sentiment of "if denouncing a genocide makes me an antisemite, then I'm proudly antisemitic". Do not tell me you haven't seen it.

Every lie you spit just add to this momentum, so keep talking. so keep talking, as it'll keep backfiring.

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eternalmortal@reddit

A genocide with a lower civilian to combatant kill ratio than almost every other modern urban conflict. Sure.

I'm not saying calling something a genocide is antisemitic, I'm saying there is no frame of reference for what people are claiming is a genocide, and the claim falls apart at the slightest amount of objective scrutiny.

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ruscaire@reddit

You do know it’s not “people” calling it genocide but esteemed legal counsel, right? I mean I’ve watched some of the ICC deliberations and they’re quite convincing. It’s very convenient to attack the legitimacy of this court because it means you don’t have to respond to the accusations.

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eternalmortal@reddit

I haven't attacked the legitimacy of the court here. The ICC has not ruled that military action in Gaza constitutes genocide. It remains under deliberation. The arguments against are just as convincing - if they weren't it wouldn't still be under deliberation.

But the fact remains that 17000 militants killed (IDF number) out of a reported 46000 total (Hamas number) makes this conflict one of the more targeted in recent history, with a lower civilian death ratio than Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Armenia, Ethiopia, Myanmar, and plenty of other conflicts. Fewer civilian deaths per capita than similar conflicts. Not a great way to genocide a people.

It's a war. A shitty war, and innocent people die in wars all the time. But it's not even a particularly bloody one by contemporary standards. Estimates say up to 600,000 civilians were killed in the Tigray war in 2020-2022, out of up to 800,000 total deaths. That's orders of magnitude more than in Gaza, and even more than all the deaths in the Israeli Palestinian conflict over the last 80 years. Also not a great way to genocide a people.

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ruscaire@reddit

17000 militants killed (IDF number)

If that’s your premise I’ve got bad news for you

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eternalmortal@reddit

That's the only number there is. Hamas through the Gaza Ministry of Health claim that 100% of deaths are civilians. Do you believe that? If not, what number of militant dead do you believe and what is your reasoning?

Hamas is also the only source available for the total casualty figure of 46000. The UN has mentioned multiple times that it is unable to independently confirm this casualty count. I'm taking both numbers with a grain of salt - you should too, which is why my comment disclosed the sources for both figures.

If you believe the Hamas number but not the IDF number ask yourself why that is.

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ruscaire@reddit

Indiscriminate bombing for single targets? Blowing up refugee camps, aid workers, women and children - all because an AI told them to. I’d say conservatively it’s a twentieth of the IDF number.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Indiscriminate bombing? Of course, because roof knocking, phone calls, fliers, and text messages telling civilians to evacuate before a bombing sounds indiscriminate to me. And why would they need an AI if the bombing is indiscriminate? It's contradictory - either they're using tech to find targets or they're not bothering with targeting at all. Pick one. Plus, every target is individually approved by a soldier responsible for the strike. Which still sounds targeted to me.

So your single point of evidence towards your independent, vibe-based casualty figure of 850 (1/20th of 17000) is bunk. Let me know when major newspapers start using the official ruscaire casualty calculation in their reporting. What an embarrassing assessment.

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ruscaire@reddit

Bombs are always indiscriminate

You’re tying yourself in knots trying to justify the unjustifiable.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Bombs are always indiscriminate

I really hope people read this and realize how idiotically wrong this is. This is especially rich coming from someone with an Irish flag under their username.

Israel should have responded to 1200 murdered on Oct 7 the same way the Irish did to Bloody Sunday - with a strongly worded letter. FYI, statistically the bombings during the Troubles actually had a worse civilian to combatant kill ratio than the current Gazan war - practically double at 3.5:1 vs. 1.7:1.

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ruscaire@reddit

I’m really not sure what to say to this except that you are really stupid.

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Zipz@reddit

I mean you’re the one who can’t make up a decent argument against an idiot.

So what does that make you?

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ruscaire@reddit

Why would I waste my time formulating an argument for an idiot. The literal definition of an idiot is “someone that cannot be reasoned with”

To me calling em out and moving on is the only smart move.

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Zipz@reddit

Lolll ….

I’m the idiot ?

“a stupid person. “I feel like an idiot who swallowed every lie I was told””

Weird the definition of the word is clearly different than what you claim

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eternalmortal@reddit

Name calling always works on the playground, but helps less when we're trying to use our big kid brains.

Let me know when you have time to do some of your own research into basic concepts like targeted bombs.

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ruscaire@reddit

You’ve a kid brain alright.

I’m not going to go round in circles arguing with an intellectually bankrupt void

It’s not an ad hominem. I’m not even debating the topic with you any more you stupid daw brain fool.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

As I just said. Keep lying.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Lies don't seem to be my specialty. But you getting so mad when my comment was showing yours as a strawman is telling. I literally just held a mirror to your face and you didn't like what you saw.
Stay mad though.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

I won't take the high ground and pretend I don't hate you. Every genocidal scum defending the crimes of Israel is my enemy and of anyone that considers themselves human and has a half functioning brain.

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eternalmortal@reddit

I'm glad you're out with it, because the internet is forever and I hope this stays up for people to read. You're a lesson in emotional politics and logic.
I encourage you to do you research on the conflict and come to measured, thought out conclusions.

Also kinda strange that you only have this raw hatred for Israel and not for Azerbaijan, China, Sudan, Ethiopia, or any other country that is way closer to committing genocide than Israel is. Think about why that is, that your singular target for your emotions is Israel when fewer have died in 100 years in the conflict than have died in the last five in others. Could you venture a guess as to why?

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Could you venture a guess as to why?

You don't know me, but I can see exactly where your argument is going. I can see right through you, and the rest of the world also can.

As I said above, the majority of people aren't as gullible as you'd like us to be.

You want to frame everyone you don't like as an antisemite? Fine. But it'll be a monkey's paw situation for you and you know it.

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eternalmortal@reddit

You don't know me, but you hate me based on a comment on an internet forum.

For someone on the other side of the world, with little personal interest in the region, you are certainly radicalized to feel very strongly about Israel specifically. I don't think you're an antisemite. But I also don't think you've ever really taken a step back and considered why you care for this above all other, more deserving, conflicts. Ever wonder? I encourage you to take a hard look at your news sources and their biases, and to try to expose yourself to other viewpoints. Otherwise, your toothless cringe hatred on the internet is embarrassing enough to keep people away from your cause.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

I know how it is to have your country ravaged by external forces; I know what it's like to have family members disappeared; to live near a concentration camp; to stand in a place and think "50000 people were tortured and killed here"; I know how it is for people to tell you horror stories, not of ghosts but of prisons and prisoners, and the tortures they endured.

when I see Netanyahu, I see Pinochet. And through both of them, I see the influences of the US. And you have no fucking idea how much vicarious despair and hatred I feel when seeing that and imagining that the Palestinian may have it much, much worse.

I'm deeply emotional and deeply biased. Will you blame me? I know you will. You haven't ever felt calamity in your own flesh, so I don't blame you for not understanding how empathy feels like.

But I still won't forgive you.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Haven't felt calamity? Fuck you. My friends were at Nova. Some were killed by Hamas there, brutally, on camera for the world to see. A cousin lost his fucking foot while sitting in his own house. And this happened in 2023, not in 1990 before you were born. The Bibas family funeral for a mother and her two babies (STRANGLED TO DEATH BY HAND BY HAMAS) was just last month. How dare you - your secondhand grief from a lifetime ago is not the same as mine first-hand from yesterday. Felt calamity in my own flesh? You hypocrite. I have and you have not. You are the one without empathy.

Netanyahu is a controversial figure and I am no fan of his. And hopefully his scandals catch up to him sooner rather than later. If anything, Hamas has kept him in power for longer than the public wants in the first place because of the war.

The fault for both his remaining in power and the war in general lies with Hamas. With their intentional, evil, cruelty. Killing babies, kidnapping families only to throw parades when they return their bones over a year later and promise to do it again and again until every Israeli is dead. Gaza is rubble because of Hamas, and the sooner they are gone the faster there can be peace.

The border of Gaza used to be open. I bet you never wondered why it was closed to begin with. Your emotions have blinded you and I hope with all my goodwill that you will do more research.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

suffering can and has brought the worst in people, so I believe you when you tell me what you've seen. I know you'll hate me for saying this, but will you really blame those that were seeing in you the exact same you saw in them? Because what you're telling me doesn't sound that different to what has been documented happening to Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank. Except they weren't deployed into the battlefield, the battlefield was brought to them and their families.

I've seen the propaganda Israelites spew on their TV and social media, how their TV hosts and politicians openly talk about Palestinians, and how their officials turn a blind eye to every injustice that's brought upon them by both the IDF and settlers. If you've seen it, you know that they will not stop until every single Palestinian is dead. And the asymmetry of the warfare and willingness of Israel to engage in extermination tactics (as demonstrated by this very post) will cause the public eye to not look kindly on them. It has already gained too much momentum.

It hurts me to say this to another human being, but you won't be remembered as a hero. I don't feel sympathy for you, and it sure seems like those who sent you there don't feel it, either.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Calling my direct lived experience propaganda is rich. I didn't learn about Oct 7 through the news, I watched it unfold in real time in my group chats with friends and relatives.

If you don't reject my lived experience you must admit this is a war rather than a genocide, because Hamas is not only an active fighting force but culpable for the current iteration of the war through Oct 7 attacks.

If you admit this a war and not a genocide your claim that Israel wants every Palestinian dead is also false. Hamas being militarily and technologically outmatched does not automatically make it the victim. If Israel wanted every Palestinian dead, they would be dead. Gaza would be glass not rubble. They have the bombs. The fact that it is not, and the fact that the IDF sent soldiers (and aid) into Gaza instead of reducing Israeli casualties by just blowing it up, means you are wrong about Israel's intentions.

Palestinians hate Jews. I understand that. But they don't have to. The ones that chose to live in peace make up 20% of Israel's population as full and equal citizens, hold government office, are culturally accepted and celebrated. Israel has Arab Muslim supreme court justices and Eurovision contestant representatives. Peace is possible.

But I asked you in the last comment to think about why the border was closed to Gaza, and what happened before it. In 2005, Israel left Gaza unilaterally - took whole towns of Israelis out at gunpoint and left buildings, greenhouses, and all the infrastructure intact for Gazans to use. The border was fully open. In 2006, Hamas took over, threw their political opponents off buildings and started launching attacks into Israel using rockets and suicide bombers, as well as gunmen. Only then was the border closed. Gaza isn't an open air prison, it just couldn't go into Israel to kill innocent people. Egypt closed its border to Gaza for the same reason - because Hamas is a sadistic terrorist organization that kills everyone that isn't them. Even then, thousands of Gazans came to Israel every single day on work permits or to be given healthcare for free at Israeli hospitals- including Sinwar when he had cancer. All this only stopped after Oct. 7, because the guest workers used their jobs as excuses to give Hamas advance information on where Israeli civilians lived to kill them. Please look into the people that were killed in the kibbutzim on October 7 - many were peace activists who volunteered to drive sick Gazans to Israeli hospitals and then the patients literally singled them out for Hamas to kill. Any kindness from Israel is immediately turned around and used to kill people.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Even though my point stands in regards to the conflict itself, I must admit that this particular conversation has sensitized me more to the Israelite experience that I'd be willing to admit otherwise.

My you find peace. I won't bother you anymore.

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eternalmortal@reddit

I'm glad that this exchange has helped expand your perspective. I hope you choose not to hate strangers on the internet who you have never met just because they experienced things you did not. Please think deeply about why you jumped to hate for this, because blind hatred is a cancer on the world. I wish you the best.

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Appropriate-Draft-91@reddit

Shh, don't tell him the secret, let him keep talking.

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eternalmortal@reddit

It doesn't, but projection is the chief tool of the willfully wrong.

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PreviousCurrentThing@reddit

"no one was raped on Oct 7"

That's unlikely. Just given the rates of sexual assault in Israel, I'm sure some Israelis raped other Israelis on October 7.

Who do you think was raped on October 7 by Palestinians? All the claimed examples have been debunked.

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

Right, I’m sure they stripped the women they killed for no reason at all.

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PreviousCurrentThing@reddit

Do you have a source for what you're talking about?

This is what I would call a "of course there were rapes, how could there not be?" non-response response. It's fairly effective form of hasbara that tries to reverse the burden of proof. The sarcasm is a nice touch.

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

It’s on video. Don’t act like you didn’t watch it.

You were the one saying Hamas didn’t rape not even one person and if anyone was raped it was Idf raping people.

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PreviousCurrentThing@reddit

It’s on video. Don’t act like you didn’t watch it.

It's literally not, otherwise you would be linking to a reputable source saying that it is. You can't.

You were the one saying Hamas didn’t rape not even one person

Try again, where'd I say that?

It wouldn't shock me to learn there were at least a few rapes by Hamas, but I don't just gargle Israeli propaganda. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim. One would think Israel would have welcomed the UN or other independent body to conduct an investigation, unless they felt it would come up with nothing and limit their ability to use the rape hoax as atrocity propaganda to justify their wholesale slaughter of Palestinian civilians.

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cadsiesk@reddit

Even if none of what you said was true, I still fail to see how any of this justifies killing children on purpose.

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eternalmortal@reddit

You're right - the Bibas babies that were strangled to death (by hand) should never have been killed and then their bodies paraded through Gaza in coffins while Hamas declared victory and promised to do it again.

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

You’re evil for valuing the lives of one group of children over the other so much you don’t even care about when Palestinian children die.

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eternalmortal@reddit

The difference is one side intentionally strangles babies to death and parades bodies through the streets as a victory and the other side only kills innocent people as regrettable collateral damage because the baby killers ironically hide among different babies. Why was Noa Argamani held hostage in a civilian home? Why are military bases built under mosques hospitals and schools? Every innocent death is wrong. But there is literally international law describing collateral damage and target legitimacy. Shame on you for the false moral equivalence.

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

That’s absolute bullshit. Israelis soldiers were caught raping a Palestinian man and do you know what the response was in Israel? They were brought to a talk show, celebrated by the people on social media and told that they were totally justified for doing it and general sentiment in Israel was that the IDF was wrong for sacking them.

Unlike all the imaginary examples of so-called Palestinian crimes you’ve listed this has actually been documented empirically.

Not to mention there is also empirical evidence of IDF soldiers intentionally shooting and maiming children and then celebrating it on social media. So please, disrespectfully, get out of here.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Nonsense. The soldiers were punished, dismissed, and one went on a controversial talk show to unsuccessfully plead his case. The average Israeli is furious at the incident and want them punished more. Liberal democracies show all their problems openly and they're sorted out in the public sphere. Individuals even in the idf sometimes do bad things and are punished and shamed for them. The difference is that the people in Hamas responsible for murder, torture, kidnapping, rape are national heroes with celebrations of their atrocities. Bus bombing perpetrators have public squares and elementary schools named after them. Plane hijackers are national icons. I'd rather side with those who wrestle with their bad apples rather than put them on a pedestal.

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

And IDF soldiers and the government officials responsible for killing children aren’t supported my the majority of country according to numerous polls? What about the polls that suggest an overwhelming sentiment that IDF activity in Gaza isn’t vicious enough? If you want to excuse the deaths of Palestinian children because of a few bad actors then it goes the other way too.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Yeah, Israel is a free society in which people can have their own opinions and debate is freely encouraged. Free societies are messy but honest. Here I am, actively denouncing the actions of those soldiers and calling for more punishment for them. Have you once denounced Oct 7? Or Hamas continued holding of hostages taken from their homes for no reason other than their nationality and religion? I'd love to see you have an ounce of nuance here and outwardly say Hamas is bad - but the vast majority of you can't do it.

If IDF activity in Gaza was enough, all the hostages would be free. Since Hamas has declined to free those people, they have determined that it is in fact not enough. Israeli society has been consistently clear in supporting all hostages coming home.

As a side note, Hamas is not a vanishing minority of the populace - they are the authoritarian rulers of Gaza. They are at least as cruel to Gazan civilians as they are to Israelis. They should be gone for both peoples to prosper.

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

This is clear BS so I’m gonna call you out on it.

1) I don’t like Hamas.

2) Hamas was following the ceasefire agreements, including returning hostages.

3) Israel broke the ceasefire agreement by refusing to hold talks for stage 2, which Hamas repeatedly said it was open to and waiting for.

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Zipz@reddit

Hamas didn’t follow the ceasefire and broke it on 3 different hostage exchanges ….

Holy moly it’s embarrassing that you will lie for a terrorist organization

Both sides did not come to an agreement with stage two. That’s on both of them. It’s weird how you deny hamas also denying phase 2 of the ceasefire.

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

Hamas only “broke” the agreement whenever Israel didn’t hold up their end of the bargain. Lying by omission is still lying

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Zipz@reddit

The projection is something else with you or are you going to claim you didn’t know ?

Did you miss beginning hamas did not release the hostage list at the begging of the ceasefire and delayed it ?

It’s funny you pretend things like that never happened.

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EH1987@reddit

Using these dead children for propaganda purposes in direct opposition to the wishes of their family, stay classy.

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eternalmortal@reddit

Ironic because only one side is so desperate for dead child propaganda that they consistently fake videos of grieving families for international sympathy.

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cadsiesk@reddit

So your solution is to kill another group of babies and parade their bodies around proudly? Then what’s the difference between you and Hamas?

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Zipz@reddit

You forgot yelling “Hasbra”

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kindablackishpanther@reddit

https://www.newarab.com/analysis/hasbara-crisis-has-israel-already-lost-its-global-pr-war

150 Million only to get dunked on every social media platform. It's understandable that the Hasbran's are feeling insecure.

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Zipz@reddit

And doubling down not every who disagree with you is hasbra.

Let alone the funny thing is have you ever called out Russian bots ? How about Iranian bots ? It’s weird you make it seem like Israel’s the only country that does this. Do you really think it’s hard to get a few teenagers behind a computer to post things on the internet?

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rowida_00@reddit

Your comment is the actual definition of the word whataboutism! Well what about this and that 😂

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Zipz@reddit

Hey look another person who won’t address the point

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rowida_00@reddit

Hey look, another person who failed abysmally to recognize and acknowledge their quintessential whataboutism. I’m addressing your comment, not anyone’s else. 😂

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Zipz@reddit

I get it you’re one of those Iranian bots the United States government warned us about

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rowida_00@reddit

Your desperation is unparalleled. You’re willing to propagate any nonsense expect for addressing your whataboutism which I pointed out.

How about Iranian bots ? Chinese bots ?

What about what about what about, that’s all you’ve done 😂 Never mind the fact that you hardly deviate from the hasbara textbook.

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Zipz@reddit

Weird again calling me hasbra because you have nothing to add

It’s funny how triggered you get when I called you an Iranian bot. It’s interesting how wild you get when I only called you it a few times. I think I’m onto something.

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rowida_00@reddit

Your entire rhetoric is quintessential hasbara. That’s indisputable. All you do is propagate is recycled hasbara. And you think I’m triggered because you’re projecting. That’s what you people excel at it. 😂

Also, you’re literally deflecting from the fact that I called out your blatant whataboutism. But no, I’ll keep diverting the conversation back to that same point you’re disinclined to address. What’s with all the “what about what about what about”?

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Zipz@reddit

It’s weird the only thing you’ve is exactly what pointed out at the beginning. You haven’t said one thing of substance you just keep yelling hasbra.

It’s hilarious watching you struggle

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rowida_00@reddit

You’re entitled to your own prerogative of course. But one might argue that your entire argument is categorically senseless because all you did was whine about not wanting people to fixate on hasbara propagators, hence why resorted to “well what about this and what about those why not complain about them”!

Watching you spiralling out of order would be hilarious if weren’t astoundingly pathetic.

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Zipz@reddit

Weird again all you can say is hasbra. It’s funny you Lee making a fool of yourself.

It’s weird how when someone brings up a point you can’t respond to it at all.

Keep going though I’m enjoying watching you embarrass yourself.

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rowida_00@reddit

It’s okay! I get it. It’s a coping mechanism for you. You complained and whined about people calling out Zionist hasbara talking points and thought it’d be appropriate to resort to whataboutism.

And now that someone called you out on your inapplicable whataboutism that has no bearing on the very context of this post, you’ve regressed to this cosmic level asininity that masks your own embarrassment. Projection is your best tool I suppose. But it won’t negate the fact that your whataboutism rings hollow given that it’s immaterial to the post and the very thread you’re engaged in no matter hard you feebly attempt to argue otherwise.

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Zipz@reddit

So wait ?

You think it’s childish that I called you an Iranian bot ?

Yet here you are calling anyone who disagrees with you hasbra.

Very interesting how you don’t see that you are a hypocrite.

But then again you are a Hamas supporter so that shouldn’t surprise me

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rowida_00@reddit

You think it’s childish that I called you an Iranian bot ?

Not at all. You can call out whatever you like. But your answer to being called on whataboutism, was doubling on further whataboutism. The personification of imbecility. Your entire argument from the get go was whining about not liking how people are addressing quintessential Zionist and hasbara rhetoric throughout this genocide. Literally. That’s all you said. That’s the so-called “substance” you added to the conversation. All I did was call you out on whataboutism. But you didn’t like that either. So I’ve contextualized your coping mechanism as well.

Yet here you are calling anyone who disagrees with you hasbra.

Actually, all I did was call you out on your whataboutism. And during your feeble attempts at deflection, I pointed out the sheer irony and hypocrisy behind you, of all people on this sub, having the temerity to call anyone a bot! Seriously, it’s like inviting people to remind you of what you are 😂

Very interesting how you don’t see that you are a hypocrite.

It’s that projection again.

But then again you are a Hamas supporter so that shouldn’t surprise me

You surprise no one. Believe me. Everyone knows you’re a genocide supporter.

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kindablackishpanther@reddit

I argue against Turkish nationalists, Pro Russian dick sucker's, MAGA's, liberals racists anyone i don't care.

It's only zionists who think they are special for some reason. You are just as corrosive, annoying and racist as anyone else but Hasbra has millions of dollars and support from Westerner government so you're that much more fucking annoying.

If Chinese and Russian bots were as prominent and racist as Hasbra, if they had their doxxing campaign like canary mission, then they would be targeted more.

The fact you're even insecure about it speaks volumes. The beating will consume until Hasbra morale diminishes.

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eternalmortal@reddit

You're Hasbara! lol

Damn I'd love a paycheck for online shitpoasts, but my bank wouldn't take Qatari Riyals.

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Zipz@reddit

Case in point thank you.

You guys don’t have anything to add to stop just yell random things

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eternalmortal@reddit

Your point? I was just making the point that strawmen are stupid and the initial comment was exactly that. The fact that you got your panties in a twist when turnabout is fair play is telling. Stay mad, it's good for your blood pressure.

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cefriano@reddit

/r/worldnews right now:

“Hamas shouldn’t have violated the ceasefire” (they didn’t)
“If Hamas had released the hostages Israel wouldn’t have had to do this” (they adhered to the hostage release plan in phase 1 of the ceasefire agreement)

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loggy_sci@reddit

People on anime_titties love to gripe about worldnews. Nobody gives a shit that you got banned or downvoted there.

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cefriano@reddit

Who said anything about getting banned or downvoted? Seems like I touched a nerve.

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loggy_sci@reddit

Why are you griping about some other subreddit? You can easily avoid it if you don’t like it.

Meanwhile people in this can’t avoid the constant whinging about worldnews.

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cefriano@reddit

You've spent more energy whinging about the whinging than if you had just continued to scroll through the comments. Downvote and move on.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Hamas did start this current conflict though.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Me when I pretend the ~~occupation~~ war started on October 7th because it's outrageously convenient for my ~~ethnic cleansing~~ war efforts

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Azurmuth@reddit

Your right it didn’t. Palestinians have been doing this sort of thing for almost 100 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre?wprov=sfti1#Attack

Gershon Ben-Zion, for example, the Beit Hadassah Clinic pharmacist, a cripple who had served both Jews and Arabs for 4 decades, was killed together with his family: his daughter was raped and then murdered.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots?wprov=sfti1#Safed_massacre,_29_August

The pogrom began on the afternoon of Thursday, August 29, and was carried out by Arabs from Safed and from the nearby villages, armed with weapons and tins of kerosene. Advancing on the street of the Sefardi Jews from Kfar Meron and Ein Zeitim, they looted and set fire to houses, urging each other on to continue with the killing. They slaughtered the schoolteacher, Aphriat, together with his wife and mother, and cut the lawyer, Toledano, to pieces with their knives. Bursting into the orphanages, they smashed the children’s heads and cut off their hands. I myself saw the victims. Yitshak Mammon, a native of Safed who lived with an Arab family, was murdered with indescribable brutality: he was stabbed again and again, until his body became a bloody sieve, and then he was trampled to death.

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Haunting_Narwhal_942@reddit

"On 15 August 1929, Tisha B'Av, the Revisionist youth leader Jeremiah Halpern and three hundred Revisionist youths from the Battalion of the Defenders of the Language and Betar marched to the Western Wall proclaiming "The Wall is ours". The protesters raised the Zionist flag and sang the Hatikvah.[13] The demonstration took place in the Muslim Maghribi district in front of the house of the Mufti.

Two days later, in raised tensions caused by a 2000-strong Muslim counter-demonstration after Friday prayers the day before, a Jewish youth, Avraham Mizrahi, was killed and an Arab youth picked at random was stabbed in retaliation.[14] Subsequently, the violence escalated into the 1929 Palestine riots.

The demonstration by Revisionist youth of 15 August was later identified as the proximal cause of the riots by the Shaw Commission."

You forgot to mention that Zionists were the cause of the riots and also conveniently forgot to mention that just as many Palestinians were also murdered during these riots.

Though as usual for the last 100 years it's always Palestinians' fault and the murdered Palestinians aren't worth mentioning.

Such is the case when people subscribe to an inherently racist blood and soil ideology. You view it as a tragedy when valuable Jewish lives are taken and Palestinian lives are worthless and not even worth mentioning.

[-]

Azurmuth@reddit

Jews in a different area behaved in a way they didn’t like so that lets them rape, massacre and behead the Jews in Hebron?

Is Israel justified in attacking Arabs in ramallah because hamas attacked them from Gaza?

[-]

Haunting_Narwhal_942@reddit

Lmao "beheaded children". You're ridiculous. The only proven beheaded babies are from Gaza

[-]

Azurmuth@reddit

On hearing screams in a room, I went up a sort of tunnel passage and saw an Arab in the act of cutting off a child’s head with a sword. He had already hit him and was having another cut

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre?wprov=sfti1#Account_of_Raymond_Cafferata

[-]

Haunting_Narwhal_942@reddit

The only proven beheaded babies are from Gaza.

He said she said is not proof.

As we've seen after October 7th claims of beheaded babies, cutting wombs and genitals and hanging women from trees were all testmonies that were proven to be lies and exaggerated atrocity propaganda.

[-]

Azurmuth@reddit

Do you have reading comprehension problems? The account is from the 1929 hebron massacre, by Raymond Cafferata, the head of the Hebron police force, which was apart of the British Palestine police force.

It is said he even the day prior said:

the Jews deserve it, you are the cause of all troubles

What reason would he have to lie?

[-]

Haunting_Narwhal_942@reddit

It is said he even the day prior said

Oh someone said that he said. That's even better. Well, thanks for this flawless logical deduction. Very convincing proof.

Any mention of the Arabs who were brutally murdered by Zionists or the fact that many Arabs projected their Jewish neighbors?

Uh wait no? Perhaps because it doesn't fit narrative of "Zionists good. Arabs are savage and bad."

[-]

Azurmuth@reddit

9 Arabs died in Hebron. All were to my knowledge shot by the British police.

Modern historians believe most Jews were saved by British police intervention.

[-]

MidWestKhagan@reddit

You’re right, let’s kill every Palestinian. This completely excuses zionists invading Palestine and kill everything from olive trees to babies.

[-]

Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

You can’t say shit like this while knowing the pro Palestine position is all Israelis should be deported or executed.

[-]

robot2243@reddit

lol this guy thinks he’s got a “gotcha”moment. Heads up, Brits and Spaniards tried exterminating Jews in their lands few times throughout the history for certain actions. Historically Arabs and arab nations have been far more friendly towards Jews than Europeans. Arab/jewish conflict started with the idea of Zionism.

[-]

Zipz@reddit

Help me out

Which group has tried more recently ?

[-]

meister2983@reddit

Israel signed the Oslo Accords with the government of Palestine. Hamas seized power over a territory of Palestine and refused to abide by Accords, so was placed under a blockade.

[-]

catador_de_potos@reddit

The same accord that was deemed as "unconditional security for the Israelis and conditional security for the Palestinians." Which, despite prohibiting Israel further expansion of it's settlements on the West Bank it continued to do so regardless?

Yeah I can't see how that one failed, it was a perfect peace plan. Can't understand how ~~Israel~~ Palestine wouldn't even try to abide by it.

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meister2983@reddit

" Which, despite prohibiting Israel's further expansion of it's settlements into the West Bank, it continued to do so regardless?

It did not prohibit settlement expansion in Area C. What are you talking about?

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

It didn't explicitly prohibit it but it very much was meant to not be taken under more settlements. Under Oslo accords Area C was to be slowly handed over to the Palestinians. Not Israel continually builds settlements and displace and force Palestinians out of it.

You may want to actually read what the Oslo accords were about instead of taking one out of context snippet and wave it around to prove your ignorance.

You do not seem to remotely know what the Oslo agreement was about or what it entailed.

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meister2983@reddit

It didn't explicitly prohibit it but it very much was meant to not be taken under more settlements

There was no freeze.

Under Oslo accords Area C was to be slowly handed over to the Palestinians

Not the entirety. Final borders subject to negotiation. settlements subject to final status negotiations as well.

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Dramatical45@reddit

There was no freeze the agreement was for Area C to be handed over to Palestinians gradually. There were not meant to be anymore settlements after that because doing so quite explicitly violated that term of the agreement. After gradual transfer of Area C the final areas that could not be handed over(large established settlements around East Jerusalem) were to be exchanged for in land swaps.

You are utterly taking the agreement out of context to justify Israeli abhorrent internationally recognized illegal settlements so they can steal as much of Area C as they can.

And you are waving the Oslo accords as if they allowed it which they do not. It utterly violates both spirit of the agreement and the intent.

You are either horribly ignorant or extremely intellectually dishonest.

Israel doesn't remotely follow Oslo and it cannot be used as a shield for their actions.

Stop supporting forced displacement and illegal settlements.

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meister2983@reddit

There was no freeze the agreement was for Area C to be handed over to Palestinians gradually.

After gradual transfer of Area C the final areas that could not be handed over(large established settlements around East Jerusalem) were to be exchanged for in land swaps.

By no means did Oslo imply this was the only future negotiation areas were around East Jerusalem. Israel didn't agree to give up Ariel as part of Oslo.

You are utterly taking the agreement out of context to justify Israeli abhorrent internationally recognized illegal settlements so they can steal as much of Area C as they can.

Them violating international law is a different discussion. People in this thread are complaining Israel did something it never agreed to stop. That's what we're discussing.

It utterly violates both spirit of the agreement and the intent.

I'd say only true for settlements in land Israel actually proposed to transfer at say 2000 camp David.

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

It rather explicitly stated it which is why you clearly did not read it.

The Oslo accords state

neither side shall initiate or take any step that will change the status of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip pending the outcome of the permanent status negotiations

Israel signed an agreement where it said they would stop building settlements. They did not.

And before you try to wiggle out of this one : expanding and building settlements is explicitly doing so. Moving in more of your people is changing the status of the West Bank.

Maybe try actually reading the Oslo accords, and why they were written. You are repeating misinformation and lies.

[-]

meister2983@reddit

Israel signed an agreement where it said they would stop building settlements. They did not.

You keep claiming this and it simply isn't true. If that was the agreement, it would say that

Moving in more of your people is changing the status of the West Bank.

That's your definition.

Why does it matter if you move people into an area you are already going to transfer to yourself in final status negotiations?

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

It is true. Oslo accords were a road map to peace. Israel was meant to gradually hand over area C to the Palestinians they have not done so and never had the intention. Instead they have since Oslo massively extended their reach over Area C, completely altered the demographic status of it with continous settlement expansions and new ones.

And this is the recognized definition by everyone, including the people that actually wrote the Oslo accords.

Your definition is just wildly taking things out of context to justify your abhorrent views and Israels incredibly shitty policies for the last two decades.

First thing Netanyahu did when he took over was to pretty much ruin the accords. It was one of his stated goals, one way of doing so was to go full ham on expansion of settlements.

And Area C was not Israels. Small parts of it were meant to be part of Israel that would be negotiated away because they couldn't be moved. What Israel is doing is trying to take all of Area C. Which is both illegal and beyond ethically and morally wrong.

Again read the Oslo accords, read what the writers of it have to say.

You are just flat out wrong. And you are stubbornly insisting on being ignorant and willfully obtuse repeating this nonsense you keep writing.

Israels actions in Area C directly violate the Oslo accords. You cannot use them as a shield for their actions at the same time you do not follow it at all.

[-]

meister2983@reddit

Israel was meant to gradually hand over area C to the Palestinians they have not done so and never had the intention.

So they were just wasting their time at future negotiation?

Instead they have since Oslo massively extended their reach over Area C, completely altered the demographic status of it with continous settlement expansions and new ones.

Do you have an actual timeline map showing where the expansion is? I would count expansion way outside the existing settlement boundaries as "altering", not stuff within the boundaries, between settlements and Israel, etc. which was presumably always land they intended to keep.

A 1995 report I can show says most of this has all been in East Jerusalem, which yes, they planned to keep.

First thing Netanyahu did when he took over was to pretty much ruin the accords. It was one of his stated goals, one way of doing so was to go full ham on expansion of settlements.

By pulling out of Hebron? There's really no obvious change of settlement growth under his administration from 1996-2000. Similar growth as before.

And Area C was not Israels. Small parts of it were meant to be part of Israel that would be negotiated away because they couldn't be moved.

Here's the Taba offer - yes, I agree Israel keeps small parts. That small parts has had plenty of settlement expansion.

You seem to be agreeing with me here.

What Israel is doing is trying to take all of Area C.

What time period are we talking? I agree Oslo was basically dead by 2010 with half the Palestinian population under a government that has formally not accepted it. I'm talking mainly 1993-2008 here.

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

https://peacenow.org.il/en/30-years-after-oslo-the-data-that-shows-how-the-settlements-proliferated-following-the-oslo-accords

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meister2983@reddit

Yes, I'm aware no Israeli government thought Area C was getting transferred to the PA in the last 15 years. Not sure what your link is supposed to be telling me

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

The massive amount of violations of the Oslo accords and settlement expansion that took place. 332% increase of settlers into Area C isn't a fucking status change to you?

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meister2983@reddit

Depends where they are. Again, I agree the agreement is half dead since 2010

[-]

Dramatical45@reddit

It was dead when Rabin was assassinated and Likud took control their stated goal was the destruction of Oslo and they actively incited Rabins murder. It was dead in 1996.

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meister2983@reddit

Since clearly no one met at Camp David in 2000

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Past_Structure_2168@reddit

people voted for war and now they got it

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More_Net4011@reddit

They voted to fight back and not just die.... being European surrender is like 2nd nature to you so yeah wouldnt expect you to get that concept

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Past_Structure_2168@reddit

oh, and when i said with the nazis i meant as an ally. just as an clarification

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Past_Structure_2168@reddit

yes they did. and that meant war. my country fought with the nazis to have freedom. i dont take it for granted but i do hope i dont have to get closer to experience the concept

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ResourceParticular36@reddit

Define "voted for" the median life expectancy in Gaza is 18 and the election happened 19 years ago. Not only that I can literally show you before Gazans "voted for" war that Israel still attacked Palestinians. Also, how about the West Bank where Palestinians are kidnapped, r**** and tortured in jails, have their homes stolen all while having a government that works with Israel. Do me a favor don't talk about conflicts you have no idea about.

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Past_Structure_2168@reddit

so hamas did not get voted in power? sure show me the videos of the attacks. what about the raped, tortured and kidnapped palestinians? humans can be vile. is that what you want me to say?

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Remember that one case where IDF soldiers gang raped a Palestinian prisoner and then paraded her corpse around, and Israelites protested so they would get absolved?

I do. I remember that, and many other similar cases, every time I see people defending Israel's crimes against humanity.

You can't hide a genocide forever tho, and more people are starting to realize what Israel has been up to all these decades.

From the river to the sea.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Me when I'm an absolute waste of human meat:

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Past_Structure_2168@reddit

you forgot to add what

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More_Net4011@reddit

They won an election you dufus they didnt seize power

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meister2983@reddit

uh, how do you think they ended up only running Gaza?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)

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ResourceParticular36@reddit

You mean the Oslo accords that Israel violates everyday by building settlements.

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meister2983@reddit

Building settlements doesn't violate the Accords.

[-]

Mando177@reddit

Except it does? The accords called for both Areas B and C to be turned over to the Palestinians by now

[-]

Leshawkcomics@reddit

Dont bother.

"This is technically not illegal even though it's a morally bankrupt thing i'm using to justify absolute horrors" is something only people devoted to sanewashing say.

Its like when people insist that trump has the power of a king.

Know when someone is trying to make you believe absurdities in order to justify atrocities.

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meister2983@reddit

Once again, not the entirety of C. It was to be hammered out in negotiations with Israel presumably keeping some land.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

which they are

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meister2983@reddit

You should look at the actual source: https://peacenow.org.il/en/at-least-seven-outposts-established-in-palestinian-controlled-area-b

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

[-]

waiver@reddit

Are they being removed by Israeli authorities? Are the outpost dwellers being arrested? No? Then it's Israeli authorities doing that.

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meister2983@reddit

Totally different discussion

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meister2983@reddit

You should look at the actual source: https://peacenow.org.il/en/at-least-seven-outposts-established-in-palestinian-controlled-area-b

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

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catador_de_potos@reddit

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

sure

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meister2983@reddit

That's Area C

[-]

catador_de_potos@reddit

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

sure

[-]

catador_de_potos@reddit

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

sure

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meister2983@reddit

You should look at the actual source: https://peacenow.org.il/en/at-least-seven-outposts-established-in-palestinian-controlled-area-b

That isn't "Israeli authorities" doing this. And yes, this is a rare thing, even if problematic

[-]

Mando177@reddit

They did so years after the accords were signed, when it was clear Israel wasn’t going to follow them. And so Israel kept expanding settlements and indefinitely extending the occupation of the West Bank, the part of Palestine that was actually abiding by the accords.

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meister2983@reddit

How was Israel not going to follow them in 2007? Olmert gave some of the biggest concessions ever around that time.

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Mando177@reddit

The concessions he gave weren’t things he could’ve gotten passed, and he didn’t give the Palestinians time either to go over them. He basically gave them when he was in a lame duck phase. Part of his deal involved Israel keeping a bunch of the larger border settlements while giving barren land in the south in return. Palestinians wanted time to survey that land and actually judge its worth

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meister2983@reddit

Palestinians could have just taken Taba 2001 if they wanted to move fast. They are also the ones denying the tentative agreement, suggesting they not only couldn't have gotten it passed, but don't even want to admit they considered this

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Mando177@reddit

They were literally discussing Taba and open to a deal until Barak’s government put a stop on talks because of the Israeli election. Afterwards Sharon won and refused to continue them

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meister2983@reddit

They chatted for like 1.5 years around 2007-2009: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-palestine-papers

They really could have just taken the Taba deal if they wanted to move fast.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

This current conflict started with an escalation on 10/7 committed by the government of Gaza, don’t know what else to tell ya bud

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Since you're so good at lying, you can pretend to be my ex and tell me that you love me

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Good talk 👍

[-]

some-craic@reddit

You are the equivalent of a parrot, there is nothing valuable you will ever say, but you sure can regurgitate the current propaganda like a good little boy can't you

[-]

Monkeyguts560@reddit

I believe Israel should be an independent and established country and safe haven for Jews and other minorities that have been persecuted in the Arab world.

Israel is not perfect, but I believe its existence is just.

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More_Net4011@reddit

If your peace relies on the death an destruction of others fuck your peace you dont deserve it

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some-craic@reddit

tell me how a bunch of busted ak wielders and backyard rocket makers that took 2 years to plan oct 7th which killed 1200 people, who advertised it to the world that even people who did not like Israel were like 'yo bruv, incoming attack innit bruv' are a threat to the existence of israel?

Israel killed nearly 10x that in two weeks and around 50x within the same time frame. Please point to the existential threat. Or perhaps you need to realise that this is what is keeping your right wing monkeys in power.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

I never said Hamas was an existential threat, nice projection. The primary purpose of government is security and sovereignty. What other options does Israel have to get their people back? If they don’t respond with strength that will only give credence to future hostage takings and the distrust of their own people.

What do you suggest the Israeli government do in the wake of 10/7?

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your_red_triangle@reddit

not commit a genocide. simple.

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some-craic@reddit

Tactically:
- Israel should never have let 10/7 happen and investigate everyone right up to the top
- Israel should have allowed independent investigations of 10/7
- Israel should not have employed the use of extreme collective punishment
- Israel should focus on solving root causes, e.g. explore true meaningful peace options that allow true equality and opportunity. Israel has never given this a real chance since Gaza has always been an open air concentration camp and I'll even go as far as Hamas' political success was likely a Mossad victory as well, served them well politically dividing the west bank and gaza, look at how they can have a seize fire in gaza while committing international crimes in the west bank (i.e. settling occupied land, always a fucked up trick of the wicked)

Is Hamas an existential threat to Israel?

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Hamas is not an existential threat, but Iran is. Hamas/Gaza are purely lap dogs of Iran.

Hamas is the government voted by the people. The people suffer the consequences of their governments poor choices, which is why so many Americans are protesting the current government.

You cant advise Israel to just “not let 10/7 happen”. It did happen and the consequences are being seen today.

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some-craic@reddit

Actually I can, I just did, and if it happened here in my country we'd ask the same, no we'd demand it. The fact that it is now illegal in Israel, with up to 5 yrs in prison, to contest any of the events of October 7th tells me everything I need to know. Not the actions of innocence. Compare that to 9/11 which Americans can and do freely contest still to this day.

The threat of Hamas has served nobody better than Israel itself. If Hamas did not exist Israel would have had to invent other ways to ethnically cleanse Gaza as they have done long before Hamas came to power.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

I believe the conflict started in 1948

[-]

Testiclese@reddit

And Arabs have been losing ever since.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

yeah obviously

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Testiclese@reddit

More of a “the only way this ends is on Israel’s terms” type of thing.

A lot of people have this weird assumption that this is some sort of negotiation between equals.

It’s not.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

well, it's been almost 100 years, so obviously, Israel's way isn't working. otherwise, 10/7 wouldn't have happened

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Testiclese@reddit

Weird take.

Israel last I checked is a modern, developed country with a high standard of living.

Gaza is in ruins and we are seriously discussing repatriating Palestinians to Africa.

I don’t know how to look at that and see it as “Israel is losing”, I really don’t.

Israel absolutely can survive another 10/7. Palestinians - … ?

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

never said Israel is losing, just said 100 years of repeating the same cycle over and over isn't working out in the long run for either side.

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Testiclese@reddit

Taking in - no country. Taking out of Gaza - the US and Israel

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

and to goo where?

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Testiclese@reddit

That’s what Trump is trying to figure out. I believe Somalia already said “no”.

It’s insane but the very fact that this is actively being pursued by the world’s superpower is not a great sign for the Palestinians. They’re not really a position of strength to be playing any sort of hardball with Israel.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

so you think America and trump alone can make it happen? do you think it's actually possible to move two million people into another country and not cause a sudden collapse and social unrest in that country? why would any country volunteer for that also the costs will be MASSIVE

[-]

Testiclese@reddit

I’ll try to explain it a different way.

The fact that the US and Israel are even entertaining this possibility means that “Palestine” is done. Done done.

It’s not that displacing the Palestinians is a workable thing - no - but the fact that it’s even being discussed, in a serious fashion, means that both the US and Israel don’t see any potential future where a Palestinian state can coexist with Israel.

How does this end, exactly?

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

No shit Sherlock, the overarching conflict could be argued to be before that time as well. I’m referencing the current conflict that the article is reporting on. All this death and destruction is because of 10/7 and failed negotiations from that event.

[-]

Gackey@reddit

Did you know that prior to Oct 7, that 2023 was already one of the deadliest years on record for Palestine? Israeli militants had already murdered hundreds of Palestinians that year. Why do you think Oct 7 was the cause of the conflict, and not (for example) the Apr 5 storming of Al-Aqsa Mosque which saw 400 Palestinians taken hostage by Israeli militants?

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Zipz@reddit

Did you know prior to Oct 7 , that 2023 was already one of the deadliest years on record for Israel ?

[-]

Gackey@reddit

Wanna back that one up?

[-]

Zipz@reddit

Sure from the UN itself.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

It was the deadliest year for Israeli's pre oct 7th since the last war.

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Nubian_Cavalry@reddit

*Palestinians

You meant Palestinians.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Just to be clear, before the obvious escalation of the conflict on 10/7, there were still near daily rocket attacks targeting Israel. If the rockets stop, Israel has no reason to respond, and no civilians need to respond.

Are you talking about the mass arrest when hundreds of Palestinians gathered on top of the mosque wall to throw stones at the Jewish worshippers beneath them?

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catador_de_potos@reddit

If the rockets stop, Israel has no reason to respond, and no civilians need to respond.

The post above certifies that this is a lie.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

and 10/7 is a distant after effect of 1948 and the preceding times. the current death and destruction is a consequence of what happened then, so it's all the same conflict to me, honestly.

It's our generations version of the hundred year war between Britian and France.

[-]

Monkeyguts560@reddit

Okay except Britain and France had comparable armies, and fought against armies rather than asymmetrical terrorist strikes and raids. The sooner the Palestinians accept that Israel is here to stay, the sooner they can find peace. Before 10/7 there was trade and jobs programs. The gazan government is a lap dog of iran and they use innocent civilians to push their agenda of not accepting Israel’s existence.

Israel is here to stay. The sooner Iran comes to grip with that, the sooner this needless death will stop.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

I just used that example as a comparison for the length of a conflict, not a comparison between the actual military

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

That depends on what you count as occupation. Israel has given land back before, I don’t think that’s a far stretch to assume they would welcome peace if Iran is willing to discuss peace.

Iran won’t discuss peace, because why would they? They can have their lap dogs fight and die for them.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

I count settlements in the west bank as an occupation. do you think the Israeli government will tell everyone to pack up and leave if peace is made?

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

They did for Gaza in 2004 right?

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

I'm asking about the West Bank and its settlements

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Yes I do believe Israel would negotiate that, but again would need to be negotiated that Israel is a sovereign nation that has the right to defend itself. There were settlements in Gaza before the Palestinians there gained independence.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

interesting because I believe the settlers in the current Israeli government have said otherwise about the settlements and want to expand them. what gives you the confidence that them or any future settlers in government would agree to ending their occupation?

I wish I had your optimism because I just don't see it happening.

[-]

Monkeyguts560@reddit

Well, for one there is a history of Israel giving up land for security. Gaza being one and the Sinai being another.

There are more people in Israel proper who hate the settlers and would absolutely be in favor of ending the settlements for peace.

The issue is that the last time they did a pull back, we got the current conflict that we are discussing here. Another is the fact that Iran and its proxies need to come to grips that Israel is top dog in the region. They need to give up something to Israel as well.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

when Israel gave up Gaza, I don't think the settlers had as much power as they do now, and I doubt they give up the land they stole, especially now when they help run the government. and if most people hate the settlers, why are they in the government and have so much support? to me, that shows that they have more support from their countrymen than you're saying. seeing as how the vote to put them in office.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

To be honest, I’m not too knowledgeable about the inner workings of the Israeli government and how many seats the settlers have. All I can go on is history, and historically I believe it’s obvious Israel will negotiate.

I only know of several friends in Tel Aviv that despise them. Again, I don’t believe there can be longstanding peace without Iran/Palestine making concessions on some of the land.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

one of my good friends is from Israel born and raised, and when we last spoke, she told me that currently, there are two political parties that support the settlers in the governing coalition and that they also have settlers in the parties. so I'd say they have considerable power. and even if iran and Hamas made peace tomorrow, I doubt the settlers would return the stolen land and end the occupation. and continued occupation will just continue to lead to more conflicts down the line.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Well that begs the question, why would Israel give up the settlements when the last time they pulled out all they got was a hostile government and near constant attacks? Israel holds the power, if anything Palestine and Iran should give concessions, but they won’t if Iran never suffers real consequences for their actions.

[-]

Typical_Response6444@reddit

so your changing your whole argument from the Israelis will give back stolen land in the west bank to Palestinians should just give the land to them now

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

No, I said Israel could negotiate for settlements if they were presented with a deal. Because they have done so before.

What would Iran and Palestine offer Israel for giving up settlements?

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

peace and policing of their borders by an arab coalition, so 10/7 never happens again. and no more rockets. the Palestinians don't have much else to offer since a lot of the land that partitioned for them is currently under Israeli control.

I also don't believe the Palestinians should trade land for peace. that will only encourage more warlords and dictators all over the world to start wars and only end them when they receive land in return for peace. it will lead to an unstable ass world .

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

That’s fair. I think Israel would not be okay with an Arab army patrolling the border for obvious reasons. If there were American bases that might be possible.. I don’t believe any of this happens until Hamas unconditionally surrenders.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

I believe America will obviously be part of the border guard in any neutral zone. I'm just speaking about what I believe the Arab side will offer.

and do you believe bombing Gaza indefinitely will cause hammas to surrender? According to Israel, they have already replaced their 30,000 soilders who died since 10/7, and there are about two million Palestinians and counting in total

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Just bombs? No. They need to actually deploy troops and force a surrender. I’m sure that will start again in the next couple weeks, that’s why they split Gaza in half with that big road when they originally went in.

This time will be much more tragic with Trump in office.. I wish this conflict will end but it’s clear it will never end with Hamas as the governing body

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

so if the troops who were there last year didn't achieve the goal, what would the difference now be?

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

Dissolving Hamas as a government. Much like the Nazis, Japanese imperialists and Iraqi Baathists.

The difference is the US president. Last time Israel needed to answer and negotiate with the Biden admin, now they will have less restrictions.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

like I said, wasn't that the goal last year? and biden didn't really give much restrictions he said he wanted hamas gone too

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

That’s not true, Biden’s admin absolutely got involved so they looked more like the reasonable party on the issue.

This time is going to be much more brutal. I can’t remember reading stories of over 400 people being killed in an overnight strike when Biden was president. This time is going to be much more tragic, bloody and atrocious.

There might be a chance Israel just flat occupies the entire strip and force a change in government. Last time the ground forces mostly stayed in the north, right?

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

alright, man, well, I got shit to do in the real world now, and I'm going to say goodbye, and hopefully, the slaughter and horror inflicted on innocents will end

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catador_de_potos@reddit

The war didn't started on 10/7, that just the day it finally blew up on Israel face

Not that different from 9/11 for Americans. You guys didn't even know you were at war with a country your government has been brutalizing for some time now, and when those people get radicalized and finally fight back, you were all like "wait no, why would you do that? You're not allowed to fight back!"

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

No shit that’s why I said this conflict has been brewing since before 48. South and North Korea are technically still at war even though there is ceasefire. If North Korea were to abduct and kill over 1000 South Korean civilians I’m sure the south would reply much like Israel.

Well, Gaza and its people are finding out the consequences of committing terrorist attacks against a much stronger adversary. Until the government admits total surrender this conflict will continue. Nothing is blowing up in Israel’s face, they hold all the cards.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Ah, so its a "might makes right" situation.

Good to see where your priorities are.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

That is not my priorities, that is just accepting reality. You cannot make demands without strength, you cannot protect your sovereignty with words.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

Ever heard the phrase "I'd rather die standing than live kneeling"? I can imagine that's exactly how Palestinian felt like.

I wonder if you'd be willing to give up you freedom, your autonomy, your civil rights...

Wait, not. I don't need to wonder. You are from the US, don't you? You'll learn soon enough. In your arrogance you voted your own dictatorship into office.

Good luck, you'll need it.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

The Palestinians can make that decision for themselves. It’s sad because from my viewpoint they are hopelessly brainwashed and used as zerglings by Iran. They were given independence, if they could accept the fact that Israel is a legitimate country, they would share all the freedoms of the other countries Israel has fought before.

Your hyperbolic statements about US politics is laughable in comparison.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

The Palestinians can make that decision for themselves.

It seems they already made it. Now all that's left is to support them.

if they could accept the fact that Israel is a legitimate country, they would share all the freedoms of the other countries Israel has fought before.

I don't quite understood this part. Are you suggesting that if Palestinians surrender then Israel will just anex them, turn them into Israeli citizens and leave them alone? If you really believe this then I fear the brainwashed one here it's you.

I've seen Israel propaganda, how their tv news stations, how their social media, and how their politicians and even citizens talk about Palestine.

They won't stop until every single Palestinian is dead.

Your hyperbolic statements about US politics is laughable in comparison.

I hope you're right, I truly do.

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

It was their decision to die then, they aren’t winning this war.

No I was referencing the other traditional adversaries of Israel. They have all made some relative peace, other than again, Iranian proxies trying what they can.

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catador_de_potos@reddit

It was their decision to die then, they aren’t winning this war.

Not beating the "cartoonishly evil" allegations

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Monkeyguts560@reddit

You said they should stand up or die. If they choose to stand up to the thought of a sovereign Israel, they die. Don’t know what else to tell ya bud.

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Maddonomics101@reddit

I believe the conflict started 3.8 billion years ago when life formed on Earth

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

who was fighting? the bacteria?

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ruscaire@reddit

I believe GP is referring to Adam & Eve’s domestic disputes.

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waiver@reddit

It started in 1917 when the UK said "We don't want Eastern European Jews settling here, where we can send them instead?"

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

you could say that, but I'm just using when the shooting started as my reference point. but yeah the roots of this conflict run deep

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waiver@reddit

There was shooting all the year, I think 2023 started with some settlers burning Huwara and other towns. For the Palestinians the conflict is permanent.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

whyd you delete your comment lol

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waiver@reddit

Sometimes I do that, weird that it seems I had already deleted it by the time you replied.

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

loll alrighty

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

by shooting I'm referring to war

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Typical_Response6444@reddit

double upvote

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Nubian_Cavalry@reddit

Well, technically the slaves started the Haitian revolution.

Doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Damn near justified and karma actually

[-]

isaacfisher@reddit

If you called Oct 07 “karma” you are a despicable person, regardless of the sympathy to the Gaza suffering.

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More_Net4011@reddit

IT WAS KARMA. You think people are just gong to let you kill them??? Without any kind of resistance lol. Go throw a rave outisde a concentration camp smart stuff

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Nubian_Cavalry@reddit

You’re despicable for pretending that you give a shit about Palestinians if the unfiltered genuine opinion of someone that isn’t white on how to people make me feel makes you this upset.

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isaacfisher@reddit

I don’t give a shit if you are white or not. That doesn’t make you morally superior you nuts

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More_Net4011@reddit

Oh so Israel hadnt killed any Palestinians in 2023 before Oct 7? Hmmm not what any source ive seen says but ok

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ShowBoobsPls@reddit

No lies spotted

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WhiteMouse42097@reddit

Release the hostages. Do I win?

[-]

Xper10@reddit

lsraeI and their people should finally respect the international law, the lCJ, and the lCC, and stop their illegal occupation, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. When l hear that state mentioned l feel sick and l actually liked lsraeI. I don't think it is wrong to like lsraeI, but what that state is doing is just so disgusting it shakes a person to their core.

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IloinenSetamies@reddit

The only authority of international law is the UN Security Council, and Israel has abided with its resolutions.

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Kaymish_@reddit

It is wrong to like Israel. What they have done is so evil nothing can wash away the stain, and liking them is tacit approval for the crimes.

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IloinenSetamies@reddit

It is wrong to like Israel. What they have done is so evil nothing can wash away the stain, and liking them is tacit approval for the crimes.

The only crime Israelis have done is to have their own country and not to submit to be oppressed and murdered like other minorities in Middle-East: Christians are soon gone, Druuze are in danger, Yazidis were almost genocided...

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min_aung_hlaing@reddit

I didn't like Israel at all until October 7 2023. After October 7, I became the biggest supporter of Israel and I am still a huge supporter of Israel to this day. It's not my favorite country.

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apistograma@reddit

It is wrong to like Israel. It's even wrong to not hate Israel.

You're just internally conditioned to keep your opinions in check due to years of Israeli propaganda about the Holocaust and antisemitism.

They're no better than the Nazi

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alkbch@reddit

Why should they? They have the blessing of the US and the EU; Russia & China are not interfering…

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meister2983@reddit

I agree. And when militants continue to attack Israel from these now-unoccupied areas (kinda like Gaza on Oct 6), no one will complain anymore when Israel bombs them in retaliation?

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EH1987@reddit

Bombing all of Gaza still doesn't seem like a particularly intelligent or successful strategy for freeing the captives, it really gives the impression that they care more about maintaining their justification for continuing the genocide than they do about securing the release of the hostages. Isn't the number of hostages freed through forceful means still something pathetically low, like less than ten people?

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HockeyHocki@reddit

150 of 250 hostages safely returned, seems pretty effective so far

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EH1987@reddit

Through diplomacy, yeah.

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Nearly every war that ever ended was technically due to diplomacy, a final concession of some sort.

You'd have to be pretty soft in the head to think the allies won WWII because of Japanese/US 'diplomacy' and not the fucking nuke that was dropped on Japan the week before

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Shady_Merchant1@reddit

Hamas was attempted negotiations to trade hostages on day one, this is not to say hamas is good but rather to illustrate that the bombings did nothing to free them

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Hamas 'negotiations' were not genuine, since day 1 always hand in hand with a cease-fire deal, farcical immediately after the butchery they'd just comitted

And freeing hostages was not the sole objective of the war, Netanyahu stated as much many times, Israel had 3 objectives;

Secure the hostages
Destroy hamas
Restore security

You can argue the effectiveness of bombing to return hostages, less so their effectiveness against Hamas, most of their leadership were killed as a result and there is zero chance they will ever rule gaza again.

Once bombing had sufficiently destroyed Hamas it opened up the possibility for diplomacy and ultimately the release of hostages

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Shady_Merchant1@reddit

Hamas 'negotiations' were not genuine, since day 1

Except they were

And freeing hostages was not the sole objective of the war

Great free the hostages then prosecute a war

most of their leadership were killed as a result and there is zero chance they will ever rule gaza again.

Except most of their leadership has been replaced and they are at nearly the same strength as they were before the war

For over 20 years the US fought the taliban and lost, you can't bomb an ideology out of existence you have to convince people it's wrong or slaughter them all in which case you become genocidal no better than Nazis

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Ah yes the obligitory jews are nazis, what profound insight

Nobody is trying to bomb an ideology out of existence, they are simply being neutured into insignificance. Once all that remaining skimmed international aid and Qatari 'care' packages dry up it will be like rats from a sinking ship.

One of the lasting images from the conflict must be those pictures captured of Sinwars wife scurrying through a tunnel clutching her 30k dollar birkin bag. Hamas are not some virtuous freedom fighters, they are opportunistic savages that profiteered off palestinians pain and suffering

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EH1987@reddit

Ah yes the obligitory jews are nazis, what profound insight

Israel and zionism doesn't represent all jews, stop being antisemitic.

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CastleElsinore@reddit

Only non jews ever say this.

90% of jews are zionists. Zionism and Judaism are linked.

The only thing antisemitic is when people try to tell me that caring about the existence of our homeland is somehow evil

[-]

EH1987@reddit

Only non jews ever say this.

This is just an outright falsehood.

90% of jews are zionists. Zionism and Judaism are linked.

That's antisemitic, jews aren't a monolith.

The only thing antisemitic is when people try to tell me that caring about the existence of our homeland is somehow evil

But you have no problem telling everyone that Palestinians caring about their homeland is evil and akin to nazism.

[-]

CastleElsinore@reddit

Only non jews ever say this. This is just an outright falsehood.

You Jewish?

90% of jews are zionists. Zionism and Judaism are linked.

That's antisemitic, jews aren't a monolith.

No, it's fact backed up by polling data. And no, we are not a monolith, which is why it's 90% not 100%. Those numbers are different

But the antizionist jews are extremely small in number who are given a bullhorn. That's the definition of tokensization

The only thing antisemitic is when people try to tell me that caring about the existence of our homeland is somehow evil

But you have no problem telling everyone that Palestinians caring about their homeland is evil and akin to nazism.

Point me to where I said that.

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EH1987@reddit

No, tokenization is trotting out a member of a minority group to lend credence to your position, anti-zionism stands on its own merits whether there are anti-zionist jews or not.

You implying that jews by and large support zionism therefore antizionism is antisemitism is making jews into a monolith.

Was being anti-nazi bigorty against Germans? After all most Germans were nazis during that time period so by that same logic the German identity was inextricably linked with nazism.

Zionism is an ethnonationalist ideology and ethnonationalism is bad regardless of how many people believe in it.

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CastleElsinore@reddit

When you find a hyper minority among the minority aka antizionist jews, which are about 5-7% of jews

And there are only 15m of us (less now then in 1939, because that's what genocide actually looks like)

Then you point at those few people and go "see! There are jews that agree with us and want to destroy Israel, so out movement is totally okay and not antisemitic even though we are directly threatening jews everywhere!"

That's tokensization.

And again, only jew haters try to make zionism into nazi comparisons. You keep showing your hand.

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EH1987@reddit

Then you point at those few people and go "see! There are jews that agree with us and want to destroy Israel, so out movement is totally okay and not antisemitic even though we are directly threatening jews everywhere!"

I didn't say anything of the sort. I literally just said that anti-zionism doesn't require the support of jews to be valid, it stands on its own merits meaning I am not tokenizing any jews here. Even if no British people supported anti-colonialism it wouldn't change the fact that anti-colonialism is morally and ethically the correct position to take in relation to the British Empire.

And there are only 15m of us (less now then in 1939, because that's what genocide actually looks like)

Here we go the holocaust was the only real genocide bls bla. Even if the nazis had killed 90% of all Jews it wouldn't justify Israel genociding the Palestinians, because there is no justification for genocide, which is why you have to pretend that Israeli politicians, Israeli media and Israeli people (and military) screaming to kill all the people of Gaza ackshually isn't genocidal becaue they haven't actually killed (or displaced) all of them yet. There is no magic number that turn it into a genocide because it's about intent driving actions, and there is plenty of intent on display.

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CastleElsinore@reddit

Hallmarks of things that are not genocide:

The population going up

The ability to stop a war at anytime (give up the hostages and gtfo hamas, war over)

Your neighbor that you are trying to murder supplying your food, electricity, internet, water, and shelter free of charge (up until the end of the ceasefire hamas didn't want to extend, and is now a legal siege)

The fact that israel's goal is the hostages and their target is hamas

Oh yeah, that almost half the dead are militants - who come and go in civilian clothes

The massive decrease in casualties

Facts don't line up.

And finding one dude who says something and only got the job three months ago doesn't change that.

[-]

EH1987@reddit

The population going up

Gaza's population has increased because Palestinians were ethnically cleansed by Israel, and it sure as fuck has not grown in the last year and a half.

The ability to stop a war at anytime (give up the hostages and gtfo hamas, war over)

But not to end the occupation, oppression and regular killings, so not not quite. Besides I've seen IOF soldiers here on reddit expressing both their desire and apparent preparation to go right back to war as soon as all the captives are freed.

Your neighbor that you are trying to murder supplying your food, electricity, internet, water, and shelter free of charge

The occupier is responsible for providing necessities to the people they occupy, it's not out of generosity.

up until the end of the ceasefire hamas didn't want to extend

That's just a lie, Israel and the US decided to change the terms and then ended the ceasefire and resumed massacring women and children.

and is now a legal siege

Why the distinction? Are you implying Israel was breaking international law prior to this?

The fact that israel's goal is the hostages and their target is hamas

If that's true they're the worst most incompetent and unprofessional army.

Oh yeah, that almost half the dead are militants

Another lie, they just take the number of adult men killed and present that as the number of militants killed, which isn't even half by the way.

The massive decrease in casualties

Except for the massive increase that just happened.

And finding one dude who says something and only got the job three months ago doesn't change that.

Fuck it must be hard being a propagandist when the government you're defending doesn't even bother to hide their intent.

No, you or I may be referred to as "some guy". Israel's fucking defense minister isn't some guy whose statements can be dismissed as unimportant, and he just told the world that the people of Gaza will have to choose between genocide and ethnic cleansing. Both war crimes, both intentional. That's one of Israel's highest ranking ministers explicitly stating their genocidal intent.

His predecessor made less explicit statements and is currently wanted for war crimes.

Your level of dishonesty is frankly astounding. You are so far gone you may as well be living on Mars.

[-]

CastleElsinore@reddit

I said Katz has only had the job since November - it's March.

Four months. And yet according to toy t3h Gaza geeeeeenocide has been happening for both 75 years, 100 years, and since 10/7 - or hey, according to the Palestinians, they've been there since before the dinosaurs! Is that how long it's been "happening"?

If you want to say it's been a genocide for ymtwo years, you can't use a statement from the dude who has only had the job 11 weeks.

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EH1987@reddit

No you said Israel's defense minister is just some guy and that his statements are unimportant. A pathetic deflection.

It's been a genocide, it is a genocide, the only thing that changed is the intensity and the explicit statements of such intent from people in position of power.

Let me repeat: The previous defense minister made less explicit genocidal statements and is currently wanted by the international criminal court for war crimes. His successor is now openly threatening an unarmed civilian population that has survived a year and a half of merciless bombing with collective punishment in the form of ethnic cleansing and genocide, and you're here insisting his words have no meaning or influence.

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ShikaStyleR@reddit

Zionism does not mean Anti palestine. You can be a Zionist and still support the two state solution. In fact, the two state solution is Zionist

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EH1987@reddit

Establishing an ethnostate where other people already live and removing them from their homes is pretty anti-whoever is being removed.

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

That happened 70 years ago. Nowadays being Zionist or anti Zionist means wether you believe Israel should continue to exist or wether it should be abolished and its people deported to give it back to the Palestinians.

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EH1987@reddit

That happened 70 years ago.

It is still happening right now, the Israeli military is displacing people from their homes in the West Bank and allowing settlers to move in and terrorize those that stay.

wether it should be abolished and its people deported

That is not what anti-zionism means, it means that the zionist entity should be abolished, but most believe that a democratic state with equal rights for all should take its place.

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

You’re just describing Zionism as Israel still exists.

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EH1987@reddit

Yes, zionism is indeed an ethnosupremacist colonialist ideology. Israel exists and is ethnically cleansing the indigenous population, just like it has been since its founding.

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Hamas do not distinguish between jew, zionist or israeli, they are one in the same to them.

whether they will admit it openly or not Hamas apologists are no different

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EH1987@reddit

Actually they do, whether in good faith or not is another question.

That said, if a person's only interaction with jews is in the form of a military that destroys your home, kills your family and your friends, restricts your food and utilities, a military draped in the symbols of judaism and that conatantly claims to represent both the religion and the jewish people, is it any wonder that person might have a negative view of jews?

Not saying it's justified or correct but it is understandable.

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HockeyHocki@reddit

Actually they do, whether in good faith or not is another question.

If you're alluding to that updated charter Hamas issued in 2017 no it was not in good faith lmao, nobody believed that crock of sh*te for a second

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EH1987@reddit

It's no less trustworthy than Israeli claims of only targeting Hamas.

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Successful-Peach-764@reddit

So much Hasbara lies in your comments, it must be great to be cheering for the death of more than 130 children in their sleep because reasons, hope it doesn't happen to your people one day.

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

So basically, your position is Israel should stop defending itself and let Hamas kill them slowly until they magically stop hating Jews?

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Shady_Merchant1@reddit

Yup, totally dude, that's exactly what I want. There are no other options for dealing with genocidal maniacs except to genocide them back or roll over and die never in all history have we successfully dealt with this problem

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

There are other options, but all of them would make you a Zionist.

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Shady_Merchant1@reddit

I do believe Israel should continue to exist however the policy of attempting to bomb the Palestinians into submission only ends in genocide such a policy has never worked its needless death especially since there are better options we learned in the aftermath of the second world war

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Sea_Lingonberry_4720@reddit

Ok yeah that’s fair. But wether you like it or not that makes you pro Israel since, like me, you are hoping for its reform not its destruction.

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Shady_Merchant1@reddit

I hate the current Israeli government they are genocidal maniacs more interested in territorial expansion than peace and prosperity, Netanyahu is the son of an Irgun member Likud was formed by Irgun and Lehi they are genocidal the only difference between them an Hamas is likud is more media savvy

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EH1987@reddit

Nearly every war that ever ended was technically due to diplomacy, a final concession of some sort.

This is a completely different statement than suggesting that the majority of the hostages have been released through force. A year and a half of bombing resulted in the release of less than ten captives.

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kindablackishpanther@reddit

And only 4 of them returned during an operations, more then 41 killed by bombings and air raids. Incredibly ratio really.

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apistograma@reddit

This is a country that follows a doctrine of killing your own citizens before they're caught as hostages. Just look at Hannibal directive. Even Israeli media has said it was most probably used in Oct 7.

It's ridiculously obvious they don't care about the hostages. They're just sacrificial lambs used to justify the genocide in Gaza.

Zionism is getting more and more totalitarian. And in totalitarianism everything that matter is the state. You can kill Jews if that means to support Israel according to them. It's not something they'll say loud or even accept but it's the underlying reasoning. Without it nothing makes sense, with it everything makes sense.

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BrownThunderMK@reddit

The carpet bombing is a great strategy for making Gaza even more unlivable and is amplified by the total blockade which is meant to induce starvation.

The end goal here is the emptying out of Gaza, I’m kind of split on whether they just want to ethically cleanse it, or if they want to actually kill every single Palestinian there.

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Reld720@reddit

It's gonna be wild in a couple years. When we write the history books she put Israel's actions in the same section as "the Holocaust" or the "Armenian Genocide".

It's gonna be even colder when we have to write down that the US arrested it's own citizens and deported legal residents for opposing this genocide. Or that it bombed foreign countries for trying to prevent the genocide.

But hey, a few years after that someone's gonna make a movie about how killing that many kids made the Israeli soldiers sad.

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SubjectiveMouse@reddit

Nah, there will be nothing in the history books. I have yet to hear clowns chanting, "Israel is a genocidal terrorist, and any agreement with them means nothing.". Israel will post some sad war stories, invests a bit of money into recovering Gaza ( now inhabited by Israelis ) and they're good guys suddenly.

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More_Net4011@reddit

Lmao one of the most famous Israeli movies is about an IDF scumbag having nightmares after what they did in Lebanon. Imagine killing all kind of people and then you become the victim

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CastleElsinore@reddit

You mean Munich? It's an American movie

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More_Net4011@reddit

Nope the cartoon.... its legit in hebrew cant recall the name and i dont feel like looking it up you can its quite famous

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CastleElsinore@reddit

I literally have no idea what you are talking about

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More_Net4011@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltz_with_Bashir

a simple google search of an israeli animated film about their invasion of Beirut... took 5 seconds

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CastleElsinore@reddit

I've never seen it, but I'll watch it and follow up

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More_Net4011@reddit

Its objectively a good film but when you realize they were shooting those flairs so their proxy could........... i wont spoil it

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Cheesymud@reddit

Damn it’s crazy they have shit like this. I’ll make sure to gather my friends, make some popcorn and laugh at this pathetic shit.

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More_Net4011@reddit

Its peak "they made me kill their children poor me" israeli fuck shit

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Halbaras@reddit

The only surprise here is that they didn't put any real effort into pretending Hamas were the ones to break the ceasefire and building a narrative, they've gone fully mask off.

I guess Netanyahu thinks he's absolutely untouchable with Trump in power.

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More_Net4011@reddit

He was untouchable with Biden in power. They bombed UN staffers and got caught raping prisoners and that idiot was talking about imaginary babies

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apistograma@reddit

Sometimes I wonder what would be required for Bibi to say it order to have the US drop support of Israel.

Like, I could imagine him saying: "Americans are animals that they should die for us, I want to kill more people than Hitler, I sacrifice children to Moloch every Saturday" and yet they'd still send money and weapons to Israel.

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redridingoops@reddit

Coincidentally, Netanyahu's trial was supposed to start right at the role of the bombings and was subsequently postponed due to "the war"...

Talk about bad luck, I'm sure Benny was itching to testify in court ☹️

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Kiboune@reddit

Why would they pretend? They know nobody will oppose them and they can do whatever they want

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nowayesey@reddit

The ceasefire already ended, and no agreement was reached afterward

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cefriano@reddit

Phase 1 of the agreement ended, Israel and Trump wanted to change the terms of the agreed upon Phase 2 (while also shutting off aid, water, and electricity for the past three weeks), and when Hamas didn’t agree to that, they started bombing again.

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nowayesey@reddit

There was an agreement to negotiate about phase 2. There was no agreement about phase 2 itself

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cefriano@reddit

And those negotiations were meant to begin 16 days after the start of Phase 1. They did not, and Israel attempted to delay those negotiations further by extending Phase 1 for 50 days. Hamas insisted on moving into Phase 2 as agreed upon. So Israel said "nope, ceasefire done."

Smotrich also threatened to leave the coalition if the ceasefire progressed to Phase 2.

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celloh234@reddit

I used to be pro-Palestinian, you know. I thought Israel was wrong for carpet bombing Gaza and using siege warfare on civilians.

But then I ran into a very wise Israel apologist who changed my way of looking at things forever.

I was walking down the street and I saw him leaning against a lamp post, smoking a pipe as wise men do.

“Your shirt says Free Palestine,” he said from behind a plume of smoke.

“Yep!” I replied.

“So I guess that means you love Hamas then?” spake he.

I stopped in my tracks. I’d never thought of it that way before.

Could it be? Could my opposition to murdering civilians really be indicative of a deep affection for a Gazan militant group? Maybe I really did love Hamas and think everything it did on October 7 was great and wonderful?

“Is this really how I want to live my life?” I thought to myself.

“I — I — I…” I said out loud.

“Or perhaps,” he said with a raised eyebrow, “you just HATE JEWS??”

I fell to my knees.

Oh my God. He really had a point. What possible reason could anyone have for opposing military explosives being dropped on buildings full of children besides a seething lifelong hatred of adherents to the religion of Judaism? How could anyone possibly oppose siege warfare tactics which cut off civilians from food and water and electricity and fuel and medical supplies unless they harbored dangerously negative opinions about members of a small Abrahamic faith?

“Who… who are you?” I asked.

“That’s of no consequence,” he said, casually blowing a smoke ring through another larger smoke ring.

“But… but the children,” I stammered as my entire worldview crumbled before my eyes. “The civilians! They’re dying! Isn’t it bad that they’re dying?”

And then he delivered the coup de grâce.

“Have you considered,” he said before a pregnant pause, “… that all of those deaths are the fault of Hamas?”

It was like a 50 megaton nuclear explosion went off inside my brain.

I fell flat on my back. The world was spinning. A trickle of blood ran down into my hair from my ear.

I felt all the anti-colonialism leaving my body. I suddenly could no longer remember why I thought it was bad to rain down military explosives on a densely populated concentration camp.

Everything went black.

When I finally came to, the mysterious stranger was gone. But his wisdom and profound insights into Israel and Gaza will always live on in my heart.

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Adventurous-Win-9716@reddit

lol, I read it in a weird voice in my mind

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SurfiNinja101@reddit

This but unironically is how hasbara tries to convince people they’re wrong

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Kiboune@reddit

And nobody would stop them or even say how concern they are about this. Wrong skin colour of people dying? Or Israel somehow has tight grip on Europe and US, and this is why don't do anything about this? They will probably wake up after Israel will take over Palestine

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Dragon2906@reddit

And the American fascist is supporting this

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