TheaterFire

Sorry Gaslight Gary, you have no power here

Posted by Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit | collapse | View on Reddit | 317 comments

Sorry Gaslight Gary, you have no power here

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317 Comments

Bigginge61@reddit

Infinite growth in a finite system…That’ll work!
View on Reddit #5388404

AntwanOfNewAmsterdam@reddit

But but but line go up 😫
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bigone242@reddit

Literally training humans to think numbers without deep context are an accurate representation of reality.
View on Reddit #5719675

dominic_l@reddit

[The Arctic may be sea ice-free in summer by the 2030s, new study warns | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/06/world/arctic-sea-ice-free-climate-change/index.html) lol sure man, we still have time
View on Reddit #5375751

passionate_slacker@reddit

A bunch of countries are already planning their ✨new shipping lanes✨ due to the melting. Literally don’t give a fuck.
View on Reddit #5400878

Salt-Arachnid5325@reddit

Implying they didn't dream of the new route for decades
View on Reddit #5694816

Slamtilt_Windmills@reddit

Extinction level event?!? How can we reduce costs??
View on Reddit #5406787

mamacitalk@reddit

Billions leaving their homes *Free real estate???????*
View on Reddit #5417442

Chainsaw_Viking@reddit

Only if you’re Jim Boonie. https://youtu.be/n6ryB5wz_Fw
View on Reddit #5445450

Slamtilt_Windmills@reddit

Hey, they're breaking their leases! Bring in the police that have conveniently been militarized
View on Reddit #5418993

Deadinfinite_Turtle@reddit

Buy an electric car
View on Reddit #5412202

CharlottesWebbedFeet@reddit

Seriously, they’re just salivating over those shipping lanes opening up like any of this is okay and normal for our species since at least the age of agriculture.
View on Reddit #5402103

Unstable_Maniac@reddit

Sure! No cage eggs by 2035!
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GoGoRouterRangers@reddit

Have you tried singing "Imagine" yet?
View on Reddit #5396567

The_Realist01@reddit

Alright, I must admit, I LOATHE those celebrities. Well done.
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JohnnyMnemo@reddit

we need a climatechangecirclejerk sub
View on Reddit #5405499

cruznr@reddit

perhaps you could check out r/collapze ?
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Unstable_Maniac@reddit

Isn’t there a collapse circle jerk?
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mamacitalk@reddit

U.K. is gonna ban the sale of new petrol cars in 2030, that’s how I knew we’d be fucked before then
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Unstable_Maniac@reddit

Oh she’ll be right mate. This baby can handle so many extinctions!
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Suitable_Matter@reddit

No eggs at all! Heck, no chickens!
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Unstable_Maniac@reddit

Too hot for the chickens!
View on Reddit #5414965

AvsFan08@reddit

Biodegradable forks are going to save us
View on Reddit #5390911

Vast_Razzmatazz_7746@reddit

Lol or paper straws. I went and bought a slushy the other day and had to use one of those paper fucking straws with the spoon like scoop on the end......in a plastic cup with a plastic lid
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thoeby@reddit

Also we should fly a bit less. Or we could compensate it with climate certificates printed on paper made up from trees we killed. Yeah let's do that instead.
View on Reddit #5391774

LakeSun@reddit

The Oil Industry sells Hopelessness. It means you do nothing. We're fighting for every .1 degree. Work to throw out the Global Republicans and the oil industry out of Climate Policy making. But, it also teaches the FAILURE of Capitalism. Those Negative Externalities sure do have a big cost, the actual destruction of the human race.
View on Reddit #5391785

Engineering_Spirit@reddit

I’m considering marking fuel pumps with “tobacco style” warning labels. Some parts of Canada has made this mandatory. But I think this might be a suitable idea for some activism as well.
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islet_deficiency@reddit

[Where Are All the Climate Warning Labels on Gas Pumps?](https://archive.li/wQgWO)(Bloomberg, 2022)
View on Reddit #5414712

xcto@reddit

well, that's good news for squid and jellyfish...
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Grandtheatrix@reddit

This kind of doomerism is not helpful. Plays right into Oil Industry propaganda: Nothing to do, we're already screwed, so don't even try, just carry on as before. We might not be able to stop it but we can make it better, we could limit deaths to Millions instead of Billions.
View on Reddit #5391380

Corey307@reddit

That’s the thing, we can’t do much at this point. There’s over 8 billion people and 99%+ of them aren’t willing to make any substantial changes. If anything, they want to buy more useless crap, take more cross, country vacations, eat more steak, Drive bigger cars. There is no magic technology that can save us. The only thing that could delay the apocalypse is it pretty much everybody got on board and that’s just not going to happen.
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Grandtheatrix@reddit

Oh, sorry if anyone thought I meant that this was about the personal responsibility of the average citizen. I meant we could limit to millions instead of billions by regulating/eliminating the consumption and pollution of the like 100 Companies responsible for the majority of climate change.
View on Reddit #5587311

Emerging-Dudes@reddit

Calling realists doomers is not helping. Had we listened to the “doomers” decades ago, we’d have had a fighting chance, but we didn’t. We called them alarmists and tree huggers and cut them out of the conversation in pursuit of profit. We stuck our fingers in our ears and sang “la la la” as we skipped steadily toward a bleak future. Now we’re left with mitigating the damage as best we can. I’m not convinced that we haven’t passed the point of no return, but I, and I believe many others in this community, are doing what we can to minimize our environmental impact and advocate for measures that may help us limit what damage we can - degrowth, end to capitalism and consumerism, regenerative agriculture, less energy consumption overall, system change. I would argue that accepting the reality of the situation makes people more likely to do what is necessary. When you truly understand that your life and the lives of people you love are at stake, you’ll try harder to save them - no matter how low the odds.
View on Reddit #5395164

Corey307@reddit

Well said. It makes me sad to see how many people are optimistic about fixing things, or at least delaying things. When the population keeps growing, people keep consuming more, and maybe one out of 100 people make more than token gestures to fight climate change. They think we’re in a car headed for a cliff not understanding that we already went off the edge. Oh sure it’s gonna take a while to hit the bottom but we’re going to hit the bottom.
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BrandonAteMyFace@reddit

I honestly believe AI can fix the problem in under a year if applied correctly and no expense is too great. But, money? Fuck
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Corey307@reddit

How? I’m being serious, how? What can AI do to reduce human consumption and deal with 8 billion people?
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BrandonAteMyFace@reddit

Massive 3d printed carbon trap towers at strategic locations. giant carbon eating algae filled blimps. floating cloud makers in the ocean. And probably shit I don't know about and can't think of
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vagabondoer@reddit

We already know what to do, we just can’t bring ourselves to do it. If AI can stop everyone and all our stuff from moving around all the time and force us to give up meat while shutting down all fossil carbon extraction then yeah bring it on I guess…
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neek_rios@reddit

Hey so, what's the itinerary going forward? Resource wars and collapses?
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Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

Crop failures, then mass migration north, crime waves and breakdown of social order, rioting, collapse of government, mass die off, then Mad Max.
View on Reddit #5396482

Corey307@reddit

I see people talking about a mass migration north and it’s not going to work. The states that are expected to remain habitable and functional can’t sustain 340 million people. I live in Vermont and it’s a perfect example because we just got hit by a biblical flood. The flood destroyed home’s, business is Kamala thousands vehicles, and took a few lives. But it also destroyed a bunch of farms that won’t be able to produce much this year. And that’s after a hard freeze on May 17 that wiped out to entire counties of fruit tree, berry, bush, and spring vegetable production. That’s counties not towns. My point is even the places that will be safer will not be safe and it’s doubtful they’ll be able to produce as much food in the future versus today. Every year we will lose more cropland, and every year places that can still effectively grow. Food will face grader challenges and potentially lower yields. Then there’s the question of what do you do with the millions upon millions of climate refugees? You can’t build homes for hundred plus million people. The overwhelming majority of those people are not going to work the fields, tend to animals. So you have less productive land to grow on, less production, because of bizarre weather, and a nation of mostly useless people to feed
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Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

I never said it would work. I said it will happen. Then the crimewaves and breakdown of social order.
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Corey307@reddit

Oh, I wasn’t assuming you thought it was going to work. I was just talking about it in general. It’s like how millions of stupid people plan to bug out to rural areas if things go bad, not understanding that the infrastructure to support them isn’t there and us rural folks aren’t exactly looking forward to setting a table for 50.
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MagicMushroom98960@reddit

You would think that there would be outrage when our skies are dimmed by toxic smoke from forest fires. Or flash floods from cloud bursts dumping 9 in of rain from one storm as it did in Vermont recently. Somalia looks like a scene out of Water World. Signs, signs, everywhere are the warning signs of imminent disaster. Humans have deluded themselves thinking they're in control. L M F A O
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Corey307@reddit

Those floods damn near destroyed my state, it’s horrible. Our farms already got their asses kicked by a hard freeze on May 17 and now a whole bunch of farms have been wiped out by the flooding. The floods also devastated areas frequented by tourists, areas that have only started to recover after the pandemic. The average Vermonter does not have a lot of money and these floods are causing economic devastation. I know several people who suffered severe damage to their homes, lost cars, lost animals. Obviously, the ecological impacts are horrific, but the impacts on the average working people here are just cruel.
View on Reddit #5501422

MagicMushroom98960@reddit

It's only going to get worse. The time to act was in the 1950s. I grew up in the late 50s into the 60s. We called it 'acid rain'. I remember a science teacher in 70s adamant about finding clean energy. We lost precious time listening to idiots telling the public 'it's a hoax". I just it again yesterday.
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PointerOverflow@reddit

We're all in the submersible. We're already at depth with delusional expectations of safety.
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OvalNinja@reddit

The implosion took nanoseconds, this will be so much more fun for so much longer.
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New-Doctor9300@reddit

The implosion might have, but the crew onboard definitely heard the carbon fibre slowly fault and crack more and more quickly, like a crescendo. Each "hottest day on record" is a fault, all leading to the eventual failing of the hull.
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OvalNinja@reddit

"Cracking? That sounds like a problem for future dives. Not my problem!"
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bertdit@reddit

Spot on. The important thing is that I get to dive today, not whether the rest of humanity gets to dive tomorrow and in the future.
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rawrcutie@reddit

> fun 🥺
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throwawaylurker012@reddit

least we can do is play ps4 with this controller while simultaneously turning ourselves into oblivion
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afternever@reddit

I hope that kid solved the Rubik's cube and they recover the video so he gets the record and didn't die in vain
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Key_Pear6631@reddit

Lol
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merRedditor@reddit

Oop, here come the orcas.
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purplelegs@reddit

Had a lovely exchange with a couple users on r/environment last night. Talking about how electric vehicles are going to save us. They could not seem to understand they electricity still comes from fossils fuels. Like I had to reiterate that point several times. My lord we are in way over our heads.
View on Reddit #5374600

lufiron@reddit

Its worse than that. Nevermind the electricity, we don’t have the production capability necessary to build out the amount of cars needed to replace gas cars at scale. There’s also the fact that there isn’t enough raw materials in the ground, even if we did.
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eclipsenow@reddit

>there isn’t enough raw materials in the ground, even if we did. I've about had my fill of Simon Michaux's lies lately
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lufiron@reddit

Yeah, I have no idea who that is. https://zeihan.com/evs-not-so-little-dirty-secrets/ Believe it or not, doesn’t matter, I seriously think most of us will be dead in a few years.
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eclipsenow@reddit

Simon Michaux is the chief cheerleader of the "there ain't enough minerals for the wind and solar energy transition" and it's a bunch of strawman attacks and blatant misunderstandings of the renewable energy literature. EV's can be made from fairly abundant materials like LFP batteries, and they're even moving away from rare earth's in the electric motors
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purplelegs@reddit

Don’t you worry, you’re preaching to the choir here. It’s just simply math at this point. Look at current levels of warming, factor in the global carbon budget (which seems seriously underestimated if you ask me) and then think about overhauling the global car fleet. Just insane this is still part of the conversation.
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Tryingdph@reddit

Climate change has so much momentum that it's like a freight train, there is no way we can stop it and it's just getting faster. I cannot but laugh every time I hear someone mention the goal of 1.5°C.
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eclipsenow@reddit

Have you heard of this? “Precision Fermentation” could feed us all the protein and fats we need from an area the size of Greater London. That's all the bacteria-grown-meat (served up like chicken tenders?), milk, palm oil, etc we could want. It basically replaces cattle and other livestock, letting us return 2 billion hectares to forest. That's (on average) 3 trillion trees - enough to return CO2 to 350ppm and solve climate change! The human race fed, habitats restored, and climate change solved! George Monbiot for 6 minutes - check it out! https://youtu.be/6eaTIe\_TBZA
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ommnian@reddit

Right? 1.5c! As if we haven't already overblown that.
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Stop_Sign@reddit

If we stop polluting right now... All the sulfur in our atmosphere goes away in a few months and raises temperature by almost a full degree, bringing us way past 1.5c. Nice
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brendan87na@reddit

heres to hoping it can be kept under 4c...
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CompostYourFoodWaste@reddit

Too bad we can barely even have real freight trains. They're so much gentler on the environment.
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purplelegs@reddit

This place makes me feel sane :) I spose that’s the silver lining I’m all this hahah.
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ASK_ABT_MY_USERNAME@reddit

Nothing like a good echo chamber to help
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Bigginge61@reddit

Dark humour is all that’s left tragically..
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lufiron@reddit

> Don’t you worry, you’re preaching to the choir here. Oh, I know. Here I don’t get permabanned for inciting violence when I remind everyone that we’re all doomed, like I’m the one that controls the earth’s climate lmao
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Surfing_magic_carpet@reddit

What we NEED to do is fundamentally restructure society around walking again. Tear down old car based cities and rebuild new ones with walkable planning in mind. Streetcars and trolleys used to be common in the early 20th century and can make a return for longer distances. But people need to shop and work within walking distance again. The idea that people 'need' a car is absurd and needs to go away. Even the Soviets had amazing city plans that they would have implemented if it weren't for Americans ruining everything. Their futuristic cities were fascinating.
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lufiron@reddit

ok, but that requires machines to rebuild everything for that, which will also have a huge resource and carbon cost no one is willing to pay. You need to be more pragmatic, because as it stands right now, what you’re asking for is impossible.
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Dark_Army_1337@reddit

H2 internal combustion engines is the future, same old technology (ICE), slightly better efficiency, no need for wierd rare earth elements AND easy to transport. It is the ultimate no co2 solution.
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Decloudo@reddit

Trains should be the future. Mass Transport by individual vehicles is by definition neither efficient nor sustainable.
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blacknine@reddit

yeah and every personal vehicle becomes a small bomb. this is as dumb an idea as the ones that led us here
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TipsyTafel815@reddit

It was fun in the fallout games? I mean it would fit in the capitalist spirit of organizing death games 🥲
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blacknine@reddit

dammit your right lfg
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knightstalker1288@reddit

So much this. I remember when h2 cars were the talk in the late 90’s, then came all of the Hindenburg themed propaganda. Looking back, I realize that propaganda only existed because it was a legitimate threat to the oil industry.
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Dhrun42@reddit

Umm I'm pretty sure H2 is not easy to transport. It has to be seriously frozen and compressed and even then it's hard to stop it leaking
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nihithilak@reddit

You should investigate metal hydrides. It is a way to store hydrogen in a solid state and is the most flame retardant way to store hydrogen. Sadly it is super expensive.
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Dhrun42@reddit

There's always a catch
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Unstable_Maniac@reddit

But wait, it gets worse. People don’t care.
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OvalNinja@reddit

People can't comprehend consequences that exist in a nebulous future. - smoking - being obese - global warming
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shryke12@reddit

We don't even have the infrastructure to push out all the power to charge all those EVs and we don't have the copper to upgrade it all. It's all a green mirage.
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cr0ft@reddit

PRT systems like skyTran would work. They're directly mains powered and use passive maglev rail. The track has no physical contact so it lasts a very long time. No lithium batteries requried. But sure, that's a huge construction effort. We could easily do it if we didn't have to cope with the capitalist nonsense but of course we do. But just recycle the cars, all of them, and make something useful out of the resources...
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eclipsenow@reddit

Ah, as much as I hate cars as a new urbanist / old peak oiler - EV's ARE still better than oil cars for the climate, even with a dirty grid. Check the papers on this. AND they lend towards national security in an oil crisis as we've got to wean off oil somehow
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Spaceallen@reddit

Electric vehicles, especially personal electric vehicles, are not here to save us, they are meant to save the car industry.
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New-Doctor9300@reddit

If car munfacturers really wanted to make efficient electric vehicles (as much as possible for an electric vehicle atleast) they'd be making electric public transportation. Electric busses, that sort of thing. Or better yet, make cities walkable.
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ChickenNuggts@reddit

There literally isn’t enough metals specifically copper on planet earth to make a sustainable transition and keep our consumer economy afloat. It’s all a pipe dream. Degrowth or extinction.
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kiwittnz@reddit

I suspect degrowth will never happen except after the coming collapse
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ShabbaLaFlare@reddit

The collapse is already happening now, it's not an overnight event
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kiwittnz@reddit

Yeah but at the moment it’s just slight ripples on the water. When it becomes tidal waves we will definitely see that the collapse Has really started
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pankakke_@reddit

This is the pregame.
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Maxfunky@reddit

Well that's not true. We can get the minerals, it'll just take decades to mine them. But sufficient deposits do exist. And lithium is the biggest bottleneck, because of its use in batteries.
View on Reddit #5430524

Out_of_Fucks_2_Give@reddit

Yes we destroyed the earth, but for a brief moment we created enormous profit for our shareholders
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WigginTwin@reddit

My favorite comic panel. I have it laminated above my desk at work. I have yet to meet a coworker who gets it...
View on Reddit #5385304

escfantasy@reddit

How can they not get it? What line of work are you in?
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Deadinfinite_Turtle@reddit

A species of morons
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Out_of_Fucks_2_Give@reddit

Your CEO would get it I’m sure
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tracenator03@reddit

They'd probably think it's very wholesome...
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SFWzasmith@reddit

Don’t be so sure.
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WigginTwin@reddit

Ha!
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LakeSun@reddit

As long as shareholders pay nothing for the Negative Externalities. Where are the Economists. You'd think there'd be a GLOBAL UPRISING in the Economics Profession already.
View on Reddit #5392013

AkuLives@reddit

Yeah, you'd think. But I mean if there isn't an uprising of lawyers against other lawyers, politicians, judges and SCOTUS dregs that are using the letter of the law to undermine the spirit of the law and making life for average people worse, then there will probably never be any uprising. There are too many complex social systems (like professions) all tied up with managing minutiae and fighting each others for money and influence.
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LakeSun@reddit

They're obviously meant to stop the use of fossil fuels in transport, one of the biggest oil sectors, and Carbon Dioxide Producers. If you don't stop that, how are you going to slow down and STOP CARBON BURN? Wishful thinking? Or, are you just going to give up now.
View on Reddit #5391968

danknerd@reddit

Imagine you go skydiving right, you're failing about time to pull your chute open and it fails. Nothing happens. You're still failing and trying to get the parachute. Now, you can keep trying and trying and trying but you know it will never open, you are doomed. Your fate is locked in. This is where we are. Do you continue to struggle and panic as you fall to the ground (knowing you will die? Or do you give up and at least try to enjoy the last moments of your life the best you can free falling trying to absorb whatever blissfulness you can? This is where we are my friend, fight it all you want. However, giving up and enjoying what we have left might be the better option.
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ChickenNuggts@reddit

The wishful thinking is that we have the resources to achieve these feats of the scale of our society. If we where asteroid mining it would be a different issue. But strip mining the earth for lithium and copper which specifically copper there isn’t enough on earth to make this transition…
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Rare-Imagination1224@reddit

Truth
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spooks_malloy@reddit

Amazing, isn't it. There are people on r/climate who still think carbon credits and voting will save us, it's deranged.
View on Reddit #5379744

ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit

They're still stuck in the 1990s and think Al Gore will win the next election.
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escfantasy@reddit

He’s going to win another one?
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ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit

Haha! Good one. I should have said "become the next president." Another one of those inconvenient truths.
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Bigginge61@reddit

Nothing like the smell of Copium first thing in the morning….Futile but a hell of a powerful drug!
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3rdWaveHarmonic@reddit

I love the smell of copium in the morning... smells like ...carbon credits.
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Dood567@reddit

I mean electric cars are just another way to move around. How you recharge the battery is up to you, and very open to future electric generation innovation that wouldn't be able to scale down into a car. Plus power plants are more efficient at capturing the energy out of the same amount of fuel than a car engine would. One is designed to be lightweight and repairable, the other is a giant machine dedicated to extracting and converting energy into a useable form for us to use. Are they the answer to everything? No. Is it disingenuous to write off all EVs and market them as the exact same as a combustion engine for the average person? Yeah kinda
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purplelegs@reddit

Again my point of how do we overhaul the global car fleet while not expending the remaining global carbon budget? You can’t because it’s mathematically impossible at this point when you look at current warming. That’s what we are saying, electric cars are an awesome idea, but 2023 is far far too late to be starting the transition. The northern hemisphere just hit 1.5c briefly last week. Co2 emitted today will be causing warming and climate damages for at latest the next 300 years.
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Dood567@reddit

Why is there no middle ground between overhauling every single vehicle and leaving EVs? Downvoting and acting like my comment is too stupid to even consider doesn't automatically make you right.
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purplelegs@reddit

I didn’t down vote you. And I agree, you don’t need to go all the way. However, I just think with the remaining carbon in budget, this is nothing but a waste of time stalling the real systemic change required. But I also believe it’s too late at this point to limit warming below 2c. I just find it a funny talking point when we have a 23 million year record Co2 concentration in the atmosphere causing climate damages.
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Maxfunky@reddit

It sometimes does. Market forces now favor renewables. Solar is cheaper than coal. Literally the cheapest form of energy generation. Market forces alone might take 30 years to phase out coal, so let's hope we find ways to do it a bit quicker. The bigger issue with electric cars is mining the lithium (and to a lesser extent, nickel) necessary to replace every gas powered vehicle out there with a EV. That'll take decades as well, unfortunately. EVs are a long term solution but we ideally need a short-term stopgap to minimize damage in the meanwhile. I suspect we won't find one and the number of species and fellow humans we lose as a result will be heartbreaking.
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harrowingofhell@reddit

That's so fucked up. What's more it's the one thing capitalists want environmentalists to believe
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Shukrat@reddit

My home's electricity comes from a solar co-op, so my EV is powered by the sun (or sun credits, I guess lol). But all that does is alleviate my own guilt. The world's still fucked.
View on Reddit #5381816

ommnian@reddit

I mean, I just put solar in, but I did it to save $$$. Not because I think it'll save the damned planet. The planet is fucked.
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Bigginge61@reddit

I have also given up, I decided it’s utterly hopeless. The human condition cannot charge it’s in our dna. I get a lot of comfort from going Vegan from vegetarian 5 years ago. Feel fantastic physically and knowing that no animal will suffer any more fear, pain or suffering ever again on my behalf helps me cope a little with all the gloom.
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whyd_you_kill_doakes@reddit

Not trying to discourage your veganism, props to you in fact. But I promise you you’re causing (indirect) harm to animals. Just because you’re not eating then doesn’t mean you’re not affecting them.
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rustyburrito@reddit

That is true but a lot of the other ways of causing harm are more difficult to figure out and observe, and veganism is a really simple way to lessen the impact with a clear correlation between the cause and effect. ​ For example, it's possible that I could be paying rent for an apartment in any major city, not knowing that the building is owned by a giant real estate investment firm that is planning on using that money towards building another apartment complex on the local wetlands. Or, all the plastic waste and medication we urinate leeching into the water supply and disrupting fish reproduction. Streetlights and other light pollution that have a serious effect on bird populations. etc
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whyd_you_kill_doakes@reddit

Yeah you get it.👍🏼
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CRTsdidnothingwrong@reddit

What time of day does your car charge?
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G_Wash1776@reddit

Porsche and I believe Ferrari, have developed an E fuel. That uses water to turn captured carbon into gasoline, it’s carbon neutral as the carbon released was already captured. There’s definitely alternatives that are becoming available.
View on Reddit #5385413

J-A-S-08@reddit

So let me get this straight. They're taking carbon that was sequestered then released, inputting massive amounts of energy ( carbon capture and then turning into fuel ain't coming from unicorn giggles) into it, to make a fuel to re-release the original carbon and calling it carbon neutral? Sounds totally sustainable Let me guess, the premise being that "in the future" we'll have carbon free electricity to do the capturing and production and we'll now have green liquid fuels to fly around the world and drive alone everywhere?
View on Reddit #5392196

rustyburrito@reddit

hahaha..haha...ha.....
View on Reddit #5408760

CRTsdidnothingwrong@reddit

Just use limitless, impactless, exponentially growing solar power and then all our problems are solved!
View on Reddit #5395802

J-A-S-08@reddit

Every single climate change "solution" that tries to maintain business as usual is like the South Park underwear gnomes. There always some step with a non-existent process to get us to the end.
View on Reddit #5403710

Bigginge61@reddit

I’ve been hearing that old flannel for 30 years.
View on Reddit #5390913

G_Wash1776@reddit

https://youtu.be/VUKN3m8wD2Q It exists
View on Reddit #5403391

HumanityHasFailedUs@reddit

Great idea. Let’s use water-vital to all living things-and which there is a shortage of in mass scales and put it in a billionaires toy.
View on Reddit #5390724

chainmailbill@reddit

We have plenty of water. Plenty. Two thirds of the planet is covered in it. We have a shortage of clean, drinkable water in some places. We have *too much* water in other places. My gut tells me - and I’m open to being wrong - that this process doesn’t require water that’s fit for human consumption.
View on Reddit #5399121

purplelegs@reddit

I think you are missing my point slightly. Yes, alternatives are coming out/being developed. But when you look at current levels of warming/the global carbon budget/and the current energy systems of earth and brings those concepts together, it appears as if we have stalled progress for too long. I mean the Co2 emitted today will be causing climate damages for at least the next 300 years. I’ve seen some say 1000. 2023 is just too late in the game to really subvert the major impacts of living in a 1.5-2c warmer world.
View on Reddit #5385768

BackgroundSea0@reddit

Electric vehicles are great and all, but they aren’t going to save us. We could keep driving fossil fuel cars and be doing fine if we could focus on reducing the largest sources of CO2 emissions, corporate production. We’d be way better off if we also figured out a way to make industrial farming have a smaller impact on the environment, including greatly reducing agricultural runoff and water consumption. Advances in electricity infrastructure, electricity generation, and electronics consumption are what’s needed most to reduce corporate CO2 impact. And alternative farming techniques are needed to reduce agricultural environmental impact. As such, investment into things like solar, wind, hydrogen fuel storage (not compressed hydrogen gas), materials science, hydroponics, aquaculture, etc are likely going to be the things that will ultimately save us. Without those things in place, electric cars are a drop in the bucket. And at this point, it’s not crazy to think that solar geo-engineering is our only chance of survival. Though it very well could lead to our ultimate demise.
View on Reddit #5407562

professor_jeffjeff@reddit

The electricity doesn't have to come from fossil fuels though. It does in many cases, but it's not necessary. Too bad we demonized nuclear power so much since that would have probably helped save us like 20-30 years ago.
View on Reddit #5402616

TipsyTafel815@reddit

Electric cars are fossil fuel products that can't be made on scale without fossil fuels. What are the non-fossil fuel plastic alternatives? Wasting food crops and land areas to make some sort of bioplastics? What about the replacement rate of these electric vehicles? Is there no entropy law that limits the circular economy? Can we make all these innovations everywhere in the global economy using a profit oriented, neoliberal mindset to get within ALL the planetary boundaries?!??? So many questions, and response from them is like the sound of a wet fart *port*. Namely; you overuse the word neoliberalism. Who says that capitalism even exists? Or I'm a fan of capitalism and everyone who is against me is an insane Marxist.
View on Reddit #5375948

johnthomaslumsden@reddit

Humanity really needed to give communism—actual communism—a shot back in the 30s. If we had, maybe things would be different. But like you said, the endless need to create profit has destroyed any chance we have at making a better, or hell, even *inhabitable* world for the future.
View on Reddit #5387017

TipsyTafel815@reddit

As a Marxist I like that degrowth incorporates Marxian economics in their theories.
View on Reddit #5387206

TipsyTafel815@reddit

I can recommend the book "the future is degrowth" by Matthias Schmelzer. Or "less is more" from Jadon Hickel.
View on Reddit #5398921

Unfair_Creme9398@reddit

Why the 1930s? Why not the 1920s or even 1917-18?
View on Reddit #5398007

johnthomaslumsden@reddit

Hell, the sooner the better. I just associate the 30s with the height of communism in America, but I could be wrong. I’m certainly no historian, just someone with a finely-tuned wish things were that weren’t.
View on Reddit #5398078

purplelegs@reddit

It’s actually crazy hey, and these are self proclaimed “greenies”. Like how have you not done the math at this point. All the signs point to collapse, I guess some people really just don’t wanna do the synthesis yet.
View on Reddit #5376158

TipsyTafel815@reddit

Green growth, which has its faith in that the free market will solve the crisis through technological innovation is a co-optation of the sustainability debate.
View on Reddit #5376475

purplelegs@reddit

I had a class last semester where we spoke about the idea of “sustainable development”. Our lecture ended the class by suggesting that maybe listening the the neoliberal idea of “sustainability” isn’t the wisest idea. Was a very eye opening class.
View on Reddit #5376854

aubreypizza@reddit

And this is why some people don’t want kids to go to college and make it harder by the day. Feel so bad for the younger generations the kids and babies of today.
View on Reddit #5395296

Bigginge61@reddit

Very much like the fake socialist..
View on Reddit #5388291

10lbplant@reddit

As opposed to the people on this sub, that thought civilization was going to collapse a few weeks before night clubs opened up in 2020. I'd take the predictions of virtually anyone over the people here.
View on Reddit #5377265

purplelegs@reddit

I mean timing is off but you can’t deny we aren’t in trouble.
View on Reddit #5377331

TipsyTafel815@reddit

And instead of doing the maths my family comes with ad hominem like "you have bought a t-shirt that was made in Bangladesh for 5 years ago and you are still wearing it".
View on Reddit #5376333

ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit

I've come to the conclusion that economics is incompatible with thermodynamics.
View on Reddit #5386094

CRTsdidnothingwrong@reddit

It's the time value of money. The core concept of our financial system is to eat the cake now.
View on Reddit #5391672

TipsyTafel815@reddit

There is ecological economics that makes more sense. However, this type of thinking is not dominant.
View on Reddit #5387079

TipsyTafel815@reddit

Then my grandfather said yesterday: "at least people are doing something with the EU environmental law, there is progress". And when I say that it is mainly the degrowth front doing the heavy lifting and it is all the capitalist institutions (institutions that hold most of the capital) that are pushing back he is just ignoring what I say. And people like him are also pleased with just the weakened version of the environmental regulations because "we also need to keep the economy going and people have to keep making money".
View on Reddit #5376117

chainmailbill@reddit

Idk about you but my electricity comes from hot rocks that are used to boil water.
View on Reddit #5398824

Realistic_Young9008@reddit

And that electrical grids have been poorly maintained and in many regions, are struggling to meet current demand as it is
View on Reddit #5378631

Bigginge61@reddit

Air temperatures in Southern Europe are 60% at the moment. Most MSM presstitute outlets have a picture of love Island contestants exposing their flesh for a little titillation for their puerile consumers.
View on Reddit #5390825

Ree_thinking@reddit

It was ~40C in the air, 60C measured on the ground. Media at it with clickbait again.
View on Reddit #5395146

LudovicoSpecs@reddit

Not to mention *manufacturing* all those new electric vehicles. And all the concrete for all those roads the electric vehicles need.
View on Reddit #5393444

frockinbrock@reddit

I mean sure, but cars sell every day; an electric car CAN be powered by wind and solar at any point in the future; a gas car sold today with a 15 year lifespan will ONLY run on fossil fuels for 15+ years. So EV has the potential for improvement, but it’s whether we can adjust our habit (still need to drive less) and green the grid.
View on Reddit #5392352

LakeSun@reddit

Only in Republican controlled states does electric come from fossil fuels. It's rapidly converting to solar, wind, and battery as they're cheaper. Are Republicans going to force you to buy More Expensive Energy? Also, those fossil fuels, look what they did to Pennsylvania, polluted the water, and just walked away from a huge collection of drill holes, Never Capped.
View on Reddit #5391906

TipSoggy449@reddit

How does electricity come from fossil fuels? Genuine question
View on Reddit #5381562

News-Initial@reddit

Most electric systems burn the fuel to heat up water. The pressurized steam turns a rotor fan which is directly connected the the stator. Inside the stator a magnet is rotated around copper coils. The movement of the magnetic field is caught by the coppers electrons and generates the electricity. [Tl;dr. Fire->water->steam->fan->magnet->electricity](https://www.mcmasterenergyweek.com/the-power-line/2020/10/13/electricitygeneration)
View on Reddit #5387847

ommnian@reddit

Nearly all electric power plants are still powered by coal or natural gas.
View on Reddit #5385166

purplelegs@reddit

Coal fire power stations are the big one.
View on Reddit #5381696

rustybeaumont@reddit

Climate optimism is for rubes
View on Reddit #5383600

kystgeit@reddit

There is still time to buy some solid boots and a good backpack for the long walk north.
View on Reddit #5382900

Corey307@reddit

That’s a real concern a lot of us Northerners have. That in the coming decades we’re going to get flooded with refugees and that a lot of them won’t be asking for help, but will be taking whatever they want by force. Sure I’ve got my guns and my homestead but I’m only one man, there’s not much I can do if/when thousands of hungry city people decide they want my small farm.
View on Reddit #5501576

ItyBityGreenieWeenie@reddit

Out of the frying pan an into the forest fire.
View on Reddit #5386214

kystgeit@reddit

Yes, you must continue at least to 60 degrees north. If you stay by the coast you may survive on yellyfish soup.
View on Reddit #5387045

nyanya1x@reddit

Why don’t “big oil” companies care.Won’t they be affected too by the degrading environment ?
View on Reddit #5387032

Corey307@reddit

Most of the wealthy people in this world are not young. They’re not exactly worried about the state of the world when they check out they had their wealthy enough that they could write out anything short of a full blown apocalypse in relative comfort.
View on Reddit #5501491

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

SS. It's too late, we fucked up. There's still time to save a remnant of humanity and perhaps 10% of species, but oblivion is locked in. There are still too many people urging calm when we should be panicking. Related to collapse because this kind of gaslighting will make things get worse, much quicker. "We still have time" is just climate procrastination.
View on Reddit #5372382

NanatsuDIO@reddit

we had 50 years and did FA, what's 7 years gonna help with?
View on Reddit #5377347

eclipsenow@reddit

We've got to watch out for linear thinking. I know I'm prone to it - it's natural. Just as many of us are not good at estimating the risks from long-term growing threats like climate change, many of us are not good at estimating how fast the good trends could roll out. Nothing substantial appears to be happening for a long time - but that's the very nature of exponential growth. Remember the old example of bacteria in a Petri dish. Assume you know it doubles every minute, and the dish will be full in an hour. When is the dish half full? In 59 minutes! The bacteria has been almost invisible for 50 minutes then in the last 10 minutes goes from a tiny blotch to an eighth, then a quarter, then a half, and suddenly the dish is full! Most of us have been ignorant of the slow but accumulating breakthroughs in both renewable technology and the ability to scale it. Indeed, until a year ago I was pro-nuclear for at least half the grid because I just couldn't see how renewables could be Overbuilt sufficiently to offset winter and "Dunkelflautes". But renewables are now SO cheap they can be Overbuilt for our needs. Supply lines and investments are kicking in, but all behind the scenes. In my metaphor, that’s the invisible bacteria breeding in the dish - for the last few decades. But now, suddenly we can see the renewables breaking out. It's matured - and it’s about to explode exponentially across the next decade. So many solar factories are being built today that when they are finished in 2025 they will build FOUR TIMES the solar built in 2022! This is 6% of today's electricity built EVERY YEAR! 17 years to the job from solar alone! [https://xenetwork.org/ets/episodes/episode-184-eroi-of-re/](https://xenetwork.org/ets/episodes/episode-184-eroi-of-re/) Solar is doubling every 4 years and wind every 4.5 years. It's also a myth that they rely on rare earths, as most brands of renewable energy are moving into more abundant materials. Sodium (sea-salt) batteries are now a thing, and even their catalysts are from abundant materials like "Prussian Blue" (chemically treated iron) or "Hard Carbon" etc. EV's will be HALF of all new cars sold by 2030. Trucking is changing - Tesla have their 40 ton Semi, and Janus Australia even have a 100 ton electric ROAD TRAIN that runs on a giant battery-swap system! [https://youtu.be/9eYLtPSf7PY](https://youtu.be/9eYLtPSf7PY) Mining prototypes could be heading in that direction soon. It's all growing SO FAST that the head of the International Energy Agency predicts peak OIL DEMAND by 2026 and declining from there. https://www.iea.org/news/growth-in-global-oil-demand-is-set-to-slow-significantly-by-2028 Experts think peak FOSSIL FUELS will be reached soon, and phased out WELL before 2050! [http://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241](http://theconversation.com/theres-a-huge-surge-in-solar-production-under-way-and-australia-could-show-the-world-how-to-use-it-190241) Basically, people are going to be shocked at how fast things change across the next 10 years. Elon Musk has pointed out that as we “Electrify Everything” we will halve the amount of TOTAL thermal energy used - as measuring fossil fuels at the point of mining and extraction is a cheat. What counts is the electricity delivered to homes and miles driven in an EV - the work done. The world will be moving from dirty polluting climate-changing fossil fuels to clean abundant renewable energy from super-abundant materials that can be recycled. It's going to clean the air, clean much of our water, save the climate, and topple petro-dictators. And we haven't even mentioned the changes in food tech that are coming!
View on Reddit #5493194

FREE-AOL-CDS@reddit

7 years is more than enough time for BUSYWORK!
View on Reddit #5388952

Andysine215@reddit

I’m in my late 40s whe I was in fourth grade in the fucking 80s I did a report on the greenhouse effect. Humans are the fucking greediest, worst lot.
View on Reddit #5380157

OvalNinja@reddit

Just a bunch of chimps that got way too smart.
View on Reddit #5387611

Fabuladocet@reddit

Too powerful, maybe. Too smart? Never.
View on Reddit #5388441

jamesbiff@reddit

"Twenty thousand years of this, seven more to go..."
View on Reddit #5381118

rstart78@reddit

🎵🎶 theeeeeere it isssss again 🎶🎵
View on Reddit #5385999

MariaValkyrie@reddit

End Permian, huh? I figured we can do better than that.
View on Reddit #5447092

Bigginge61@reddit

It’s just like these fake socialist that infest our British media. The fuckers spend all their time railing against the injustices of a vicious Tory Government but come election time they do a complete 180% and spend every minute of their day slagging off the opposition and ensuring an even more extreme psychotic manifestation of Tory Government gets in yet again. The best propaganda is that that is the least obvious. The propaganda that pretends to be the good guys….
View on Reddit #5391336

samothrace22@reddit

What would be the point of panicking?
View on Reddit #5388825

hereandnow0007@reddit

Is this from a podcast with Jon Stewart?
View on Reddit #5380335

MartianTourist@reddit

Somebody posted a comment on another forum, saying, "We can't fight homelessness, hunger, or poverty, but we are going to fight climate change?" That really drove home for me just how awesome and amazing our capitalist system really is. The more we have to struggle, the stronger we will become! In all seriousness, though, it feels like corporations are hijacking potential social movements left and right in order to steer those movements away from the possibility of actual substantive changes to the socio-economic reality we live in. As our species approaches the possibility of life in an underground bunker, these fuckers will still be running commercials pointing the finger at all of us, "don't forget to recycle YOUR plastic, shower together to save water, shut off your lights when not in a room." All stuff we should do, but I don't see the commercials telling BP or other corporations, "Remember to shut off your oil when the gulf is not in use, remember not to destroy America's local economies by placing huge retail stores in towns with 4 or 5k people, etc."
View on Reddit #5466913

tortus@reddit

I think at this point, "solving" now means "find a ridiculously perilous way humans can survive despite the planet failing all around them". Things like "block the sun's rays" or "build large underground cities" come to mind. Or maybe just "let everyone duke it out, while we wealthy enjoy our remaining years in our bunkers and private islands".
View on Reddit #5395192

Ok_Pipe2177@reddit

UNDERWATER cities !!! Why you guys always want to go with underground . Underwater is better from all regards. Nuclear attack , earthquake , invadators , you name it .
View on Reddit #5465876

SpiritTalker@reddit

He's just trying to appease his corporate overlords while us household investors hang on for dear life. It's all a circus, complete with 🤡s.
View on Reddit #5373683

tink20seven@reddit

I like term “householders”
View on Reddit #5383126

Key_Pear6631@reddit

More like bagholders
View on Reddit #5459842

SpiritTalker@reddit

Ooh, that's catchy. I like it.
View on Reddit #5425512

Moist___Towelette@reddit

Gaslight Gary LMAO
View on Reddit #5447034

cr0ft@reddit

We could certainly mitigate the damage and do a fair bit to cushion the blow, but that would require starting with replacing capitalism with a cooperation-based system that didn't even use currency, but rather scientific analysis to arrive at solutions and processes. So yeah, we're definitely doomed. No way that will happen in time.
View on Reddit #5377843

panormda@reddit

This would require an educated government. This would require an ethical government. This would require an entire country to cooperate. This would require an educated electorate. This would require an act of God. Acts of God are uninsurable. Sorry I did the math, we’re fucked. 🥶
View on Reddit #5443319

justadiode@reddit

>replacing capitalism with a cooperation-based system that didn't even use currency **COMMUNIST DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL**
View on Reddit #5382097

afternever@reddit

Target acquired Johnny 5 en route
View on Reddit #5390287

The_Diego_Brando@reddit

Still every bit helps mitigate the disaster as it's a exponential problem, so doing all you can will make it slightly better and stopping the 100 corporations responsible for 70% of all human emissions goes a long way. But don't terrorism as it can be used to justify inaction
View on Reddit #5379918

TheSimpler@reddit

Matt Damon.
View on Reddit #5441782

Icthysia@reddit

We could have 500 years to solve this problem and it wouldn’t matter if we didn’t do a goddamn thing.
View on Reddit #5432199

PrometheusOnLoud@reddit

What are they going to do in 20 years when climate change still hasn't destroyed the world, but they still need to trick people into giving them money?
View on Reddit #5430128

loco500@reddit

C0llapsen!ks know the clock run-out in the 80s...we're now way past Injury Time. \*Can't think of a metaphor involving SD Penalty Shoot-out in the near future\*
View on Reddit #5427723

Agisek@reddit

Look, the truth is, there is still time to fix it. All we gotta do is work for $1/hour, work 4 jobs, sleep never and create as much value for shareholders as possible. And when we all work ourselves to death and the rich have absolutely all the money in the world, the climate change will stop. You just gotta give up a little bit of your personal comfort in order to stop the climate change. Do it for your kids, who by the way need to work too, because your obese bodies can't fit into the coal mine that well.
View on Reddit #5427597

AelaThriness@reddit

Lol doomerism
View on Reddit #5425467

HarveyDent2018@reddit

You say decades ago and I think 1980s, and then I remember oh wait that’s the 2000s 🤦‍♂️
View on Reddit #5423057

leoyoung1@reddit

It is not too late to prevent changes in the climate. There is still time to stave off the worst.
View on Reddit #5422243

schnaudel3@reddit

I got banned from /upliftingnews for saying this
View on Reddit #5379729

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

I got permabanned from UK Politics for saying the best thing we can do to save the planet is eat the rich.
View on Reddit #5386006

mamacitalk@reddit

Haha the U.K. subs are so ban heavy now, been banned from the whole of Reddit twice recently for saying non rule breaking things on unitedkingdom
View on Reddit #5417991

SlackAsh@reddit

I got banned from r/socialism for stating we live on a planet with finite resources.
View on Reddit #5394435

hutugutuh@reddit

I think I will try to get banned from a sub. Sounds fun.
View on Reddit #5410047

youreadusernamestoo@reddit

"We hope to have done something symbolic, mostly for publicity, around 2050."
View on Reddit #5386143

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

"how can we make it look like we are doing something without actually doing something?"
View on Reddit #5386272

mamacitalk@reddit

*paper straws for everyone*
View on Reddit #5417830

jowicr@reddit

Question: should we give it up and enjoy the time we have left (the mantra of r/collapse?) or should we take Obama’s claim, in his interview with Hasan Minhaj, that if we can reduce our increase going forward things won’t be as bad and we should focus on environmental policy with this in mind? Maybe both?
View on Reddit #5376563

sicofonte@reddit

There is not much time left. Killing heatwaves are a thing now. It is time to give ourself to adaptation (degrowth). Regardless of how well it goes, it's better than panicking (as OP) or accellerating our doom. If only powerful nations didn't start bombing each other, I think it could work (in the sense of allowing bearable standards of life without billions of deaths).
View on Reddit #5383926

mamacitalk@reddit

Our only hope now is the aliens
View on Reddit #5417648

AntwanOfNewAmsterdam@reddit

Meanwhile in Ukraine things are escalating so maybe the bombs will come before the deep frying heat
View on Reddit #5389647

sicofonte@reddit

The bombs were never gone. Every year there is some war somewhere, with the USA and other superpowers involved. My point was that war is quite resource-demanding. It burns lots of energy, materials and manpower (plus all the destruction) that should be directed to prepare for the new times instead of just trying to steal from the neighbors.
View on Reddit #5393696

Franz_Thieppel@reddit

I think he means a specific kind of bombs.
View on Reddit #5405419

sicofonte@reddit

Oh... But they know they can't use those to win anything, only to make everyone lose. I hope...
View on Reddit #5408640

holmgangCore@reddit

‘Mutually Assured Destruction’ also ‘Nuclear Summer’ Many squares to be checked! ^([Apocalypse Bingo](https://www.reddit.com/r/ApocalypseBingo/comments/10qotoh/apocalypse_bingo_v3/))
View on Reddit #5416340

AntwanOfNewAmsterdam@reddit

Destruction and energy consumption means line goes up and human systems aren’t logical but driven by money and power That’s to say I agree with your point but only think more war and conflict is coming
View on Reddit #5396141

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

I ask myself this constantly, but I almost always fall on the side of keeping my environmental impact low. I'm vegan, don't own a car, have low energy consumption and buy second hand as best I can. Mainly so I can look at my kids and say I tried my best when it all goes to shit.
View on Reddit #5376884

TheSpongeOfTheWorld@reddit

Why have kids though then? Was it before you embraced the collapse?
View on Reddit #5380678

CrispyMann@reddit

My wife and I struggle with this. We want kids but haven’t had luck. At this point it almost feels like “why would I do that to someone?” With how the planet is going…
View on Reddit #5405592

TheSpongeOfTheWorld@reddit

All the best to both of you either way!
View on Reddit #5412769

WanderInTheTrees@reddit

I had my kids before I was aware. I'm sure it happened to a lot of us doomer parents. All I had was the news feeding me hopium that things could be fixed if we all really tried. So I did. For a very long time. And while I still try to keep my impact low, and try to inform others of what's going on, I know it won't affect collapse, but at least I'll carry way less guilt as we trudge through the years.
View on Reddit #5384033

mhummel@reddit

Same here. About twenty years ago I had to make a decision about having kids. I really didn't expect we'd make things worse, let alone do nothing at all.
View on Reddit #5385322

cathartis@reddit

> let alone do nothing at all about Climate Change. Plenty of people did stuff. Under capitalism, that just meant there was more oil for those who didn't.
View on Reddit #5402549

Kacodaemoniacal@reddit

Now its the worst dread imaginable. But it is what it is. Best we can do is make every moment count, that we are able to.
View on Reddit #5390323

TheSpongeOfTheWorld@reddit

All the best to them. Yours are tough shoes to walk in. All the best to you too.
View on Reddit #5390955

ommnian@reddit

Our kids weren't really planned per se. And definitely before I embraced the collapse. I've known things were bad for years though. So, now I'm just doing what I can to make sure that there's something for them to fall back to.
View on Reddit #5385381

rstart78@reddit

I was still buying into the hopuim up until 2020 Once I saw how badly we handled a glaringly in your face threat like a pandemic, I knew the "frogs in boiling pot" aspect of climate extinction was truly inevitable and have had the absolute worst survivors guilt for having kids ever since
View on Reddit #5386284

3rdWaveHarmonic@reddit

Same.
View on Reddit #5398536

Gowalkyourdogmods@reddit

Yeah that was a huge turning point for A LOT of people. People had to make the collapse support sub because all the posts of people who finally had it click that we're not stopping climate change from destroying us.
View on Reddit #5395410

Kacodaemoniacal@reddit

This was the precise moment (well, stretched-out train wreck of a moment) I knew we were doomed. It’s like we’re being run by those people in 12 Monkeys. Idiots that shouldn’t be in the position they are.
View on Reddit #5390143

Twisted_Cabbage@reddit

Ditto friend. I had the same revelation.
View on Reddit #5389260

TheSpongeOfTheWorld@reddit

I wish them luck. I'm sure you'll do your best to equip them with what they need.
View on Reddit #5391029

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

Yeah. They are 7 now, never even crossed my mind that it would be a bad idea until around 3 years ago.
View on Reddit #5386110

TheSpongeOfTheWorld@reddit

That's too bad! All the best to them.
View on Reddit #5390666

forzamotorsportsucks@reddit

That's the very question I was gonna ask.
View on Reddit #5381149

throwawaylurker012@reddit

same same
View on Reddit #5382918

Bigginge61@reddit

I made sure not to have kids but I’m vegan and also and limit my consumption as much as I can knowing it’s futile. Humanity I feel deserves it’s fate. All the other beautiful complex and intelligent life on this planet didn’t. My heart bleeds for them.
View on Reddit #5392534

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

I grieve for every burned tree, every dried lake, and every extinguished creature because of humanity.
View on Reddit #5396693

nycink@reddit

This. I’ve been awake on climate impacts since Al Gore. Was too young for James Hansen, but now understand Jimmy Carter took his testimony seriously and, as a nuclear engineer, also understood the impacts of what the scientists were saying. After all, scientists knew in mid 1800s that burning coal would heat our atmosphere. However, now that the consequences are piling up, I find my emotions get stuck on rage, helplessness, & sorrow at how much we have fucked other species. I live in Central Illinois and this used to be insect heaven during the summers. Last few summers, insects have rapidly declined. It’s eerie and heartbreaking. The consequences of this, alone, are beyond repair.
View on Reddit #5398722

Ok_Impress_3216@reddit

What are we gonna do? Politicians and corporations control what happens with climate and they're deep in each other's pockets. Nothing's gonna change. I'm enjoying the time I have left by preparing for collapse and spending time with my family.
View on Reddit #5406238

843_beardo@reddit

I struggle with this daily. Wrong or right, I think my mind frequently comes to “I, as one individual, likely can’t produce much significant change, so I lean toward just enjoying”. I think that was the message behind Dont Look Up. The top scientists in their field couldn’t convince the populace that this imminent threat needs attention, and the movie ends with them just enjoying their last time left together, pretending nothing is wrong. I’ll conserve / recycle / vote / support what where and who I can that would help, but I’m not in a position in my life where I could risk being jailed for obstructive protests (I know, it’s fucking wild we have to be in this position). So I’m just gonna make each day as good as I can for me and my kids and my family and friends. I’ll try to prepare some, but like the meteor headed toward earth, there’s not much use in preparing. Enjoy the nice time you have left.
View on Reddit #5405842

becauseiliketoupvote@reddit

Both.
View on Reddit #5401869

chainmailbill@reddit

We can’t both “do nothing” and “do something” at the same time.
View on Reddit #5398701

JackOCat@reddit

Both
View on Reddit #5391662

Forsaken-Artist-4317@reddit

The problem, or rather the non-solution, with reducing one’s footprint is that it only leaves more space for someone else to use that space/resource/energy. Unless we’re talking locking away resources forever, or at least dramatically reducing the rate of their use **globally**, then it’s as a single flame of a raging wild fire saving the forest. Do less so you yourself feel less guilty, but realize unless it’s impossible for the metaphorical flames to reach the metaphorical trees, they will burn, with or without you. Furthermore, it seems to me, we already set off a chain reaction that will functionally wipe out humanity as we know it. Maybe 6 or 7 of us survive in some mountains somewhere, but the era of the fire apes will be over. That’s locked in. Bye bye. Everything we do now, going forward, is just gravy. Maybe a few million years fewer or more before earth’s system calm down, maybe a few billion tons more or fewer plastics in the dead oceans. Mind the meaning you can, while you can. It’s out of anyone’s control now.
View on Reddit #5389930

OmarsDamnSpoon@reddit

We should try anyways but be realistic in our expectations about the outcomes moving forward. Giving up is entirely useless regardless of how dire and, considering that we're equally able to be misinterpreting data, exaggerating possibilities, or are just lacking critical information (as humans, not us in the sub), it's worth at least making some effort for change and improvement. At least, if the ship sinks, we know we did our best. To be clear, I'm not trying to push hopium. I personally think we're fucked. Still, if I can apply effort somewhere, I do it anyways because who knows. Perhaps we're not entirely, completely screwed yet but will be if we continue to take no action. It's dubious if those in power will, obviously.
View on Reddit #5385849

ommnian@reddit

Mostly I'm trying to enjoy life, while reducing my impact at the same time, and preparing for eventual collapse all at once.
View on Reddit #5385277

NanatsuDIO@reddit

i'd like to stand on the ashes as much as the next guy, but i ain't capable nor have enough fcks to give
View on Reddit #5377455

texas21217@reddit

I don’t see a problem with doing both. Unfortunately, many of the public refuse to believe collapse is here, much less coming. So many people just go about their business, full-speed ahead, damn the torpedoes!
View on Reddit #5376847

Rare-Imagination1224@reddit

This really is the question
View on Reddit #5376749

Sea_One_6500@reddit

I'm so glad I found this group. I feel like a douche because at this point, I'm just exhausted. I've been bitching for decades about environmentalism. Now, NOW the masses are panicking. And somehow, I'm the AH because I'm not falling for the "it can still be rainbows and sunshine" routine. Thank you to all of you who make me feel less alone.
View on Reddit #5397453

auntdaryl@reddit

But *are* the masses panicking? I still feel pretty damn alone, this group notwithstanding…
View on Reddit #5397454

newme02@reddit

not really. all the stop oil protestors get hit with mass vitriol and hate from everyone on social media.
View on Reddit #5417399

Sea_One_6500@reddit

Give it a year. Then we'll see the real panic setting in. I'm in the build your supplies and learn to be self-sufficient mode. At least we're ahead of the curve in here.
View on Reddit #5412939

auntdaryl@reddit

Me too. I bought a few acres last year, moving in next month to finally get started. I still feel behind the curve but at least I’m doing something I guess. Cheers to the end of the world, friend. “Our” world at least.
View on Reddit #5415192

deliriumxy@reddit

If the Covid-19 pandemic taught us anything, it’s that society will listen to scientific evidence, and work together towards a common goal.
View on Reddit #5414724

Waffle626@reddit

The corporate overlords want you to think we’ve run out of time so that they don’t have to change their ways. There’s still time for radical change. Don’t be a bitch a give up.
View on Reddit #5413373

designer_of_drugs@reddit

When did John Stewart get a Glasgow smile?
View on Reddit #5402643

AzraelAzurite@reddit

It's not on the individual. Corporations and Governments need to cha get their ways.
View on Reddit #5385437

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

Who buys stuff from corporations? Who votes in the governments?
View on Reddit #5386215

MadaRook@reddit

Regardless, they are the biggest contributors to the climate crisis. And blaming individuals for buying things they need and those who vote is ignoring the need for massive cooperation of people the world has never seen before.
View on Reddit #5400680

Darnocpdx@reddit

Show me any government action that can bring down compamies and change things faster than customer spending. Sears, Kmart, Montgomery Wards leaders of retail industry brought down in just a couple short years, not by Amazon, but by individuals changing their spending to Amazon. Walmart didn't wipe out small town retail businesses. Again, it was customers switching their preferences. All group actions start as individual actions. Your drinking the corporate Kool aid saying individuals don't matter, the corporations you complain about, are more than happy to let you scapegoat them as long as you keep buying thier crap.
View on Reddit #5386762

designanddrive@reddit

Super volcano, has entered the chat:
View on Reddit #5400182

clangan524@reddit

["Cut the cake!"](https://youtu.be/zDAmPIq29ro)
View on Reddit #5399058

Iamabenevolentgod@reddit

I mean first step could be to unanimously stop spraying shit in the sky..🤷‍♂️
View on Reddit #5398074

Canashito@reddit

We haven't... the only issue is profit motive.... if we juat do it to do it... we should and would be fine... but everyone is concerned about thwir return on investment.... how about the survival of the fucken species... a normal life for your grandchildren.... healthy rewilding and regeneration of ecosystems??? For fucks sake.
View on Reddit #5397976

420BigDawg_@reddit

We can still stop the worst of it
View on Reddit #5396520

SnooRobots6802@reddit

60 years ago some of the best engineers in the world worked for Shell. They thoroughly documented the chronic risks of burning fossil fuels and climate impacts.
View on Reddit #5396445

Eton77@reddit

I mean, this is harmful rhetoric. It might be too late and it might be bad but we can still transition to Greene energy and stop flying and stop factory farming cows. It’s not like we’ve tried everything.
View on Reddit #5375428

dominic_l@reddit

economic incentive will always be more powerful than political will investment will inevitably prioritize green energy, just for the simple fact that fossil fuels are a finite resource that will run out eventually, and that its more expensive to find new fuel deposits we're never going to flying or farming. instead we'll get more efficient with our fuel usage, waste reduction and energy storage using the remaining fuel for production of renewable energy infrastructure instead of bringing it directly. you can consider it a form of carbon capture.
View on Reddit #5378905

JustAGayWhale@reddit

> humans will figure out how to run planes on cow farts before they give up either. Cow farts are methane, which is natural gas. I could see cow farts becoming a power source as fucked up as that is.
View on Reddit #5394695

glassminerva@reddit

Don’t they use pig methane for fuel in one of the Mad Max movies?
View on Reddit #5395990

DavidG-LA@reddit

There is ZERO human need to fly. “I need to visit my kids” is not valid if you’re contributing to their early demise. How did the world go on running during Covid lockdown? It did JUST FINE. Save the emissions for food production and delivery to markets. That’s IT. Done.
View on Reddit #5379592

dominic_l@reddit

its not a matter of need. if people have the means to do something they will do it. it took a deadly pandemic to stop people from flying. you practically need to put a gun to their head before they give things that make them comfortable
View on Reddit #5379734

Bellybutton_fluffjar@reddit (OP)

The "we stil have time" brigade are pushing the "carry on as normal" rhetoric. I'm not using "it's too late" to say we should give up.
View on Reddit #5376387

afternever@reddit

Though we really did try to make it Somethin' inside has died And I can't hide and I just can't fake it
View on Reddit #5390489

Rare-Imagination1224@reddit

Or anything much really
View on Reddit #5376761

purplelegs@reddit

I’m don’t understand this “self fully prophecy” rhetoric. I’ve personally got much more fight in me after accepting the hopelessness of the situation. It’s made me angry, I can use that emotion for real action now.
View on Reddit #5376224

Midnight7_7@reddit

But kurzgesagt said we would solve climate change!?! :O
View on Reddit #5394509

BlaineCountiesMostWa@reddit

Yeah, no way were gonna reverse what we've done
View on Reddit #5393309

EvelKros@reddit

You'd be surprised the amount of people who still don't believe it or think it's just political or something
View on Reddit #5376386

NanatsuDIO@reddit

it is science, only idiots and grifters bring politic into this
View on Reddit #5377416

HumanityHasFailedUs@reddit

Politics IS part of it though. While the science is settled, the political bickering continues while we burn. I forget you said it…’we have the information, we have the knowledge, the science is settled; what we lack is the political will to change anything’.
View on Reddit #5391879

NanatsuDIO@reddit

like i said, idiots and grifters
View on Reddit #5392812

IntrigueDossier@reddit

> Gaslight Gary Hey babe, new Garbage Pail Kid card just dropped
View on Reddit #5392590

Anarch-ish@reddit

Jumps off of building. Halfway down. "There's still time to stop!"
View on Reddit #5391846

randomhefe@reddit

We have but one choice, socialism or barbarism.
View on Reddit #5388944

capitalismsucksss@reddit

That’s two choices…
View on Reddit #5390398

cptnobveus@reddit

There is still time, buy my book to find out how.
View on Reddit #5390261

Spiritual_Cable_6032@reddit

At this point, can we stop climate change? No Can we do a lot more to manage and slow it's impacts to minimize unnecessary suffering? Absolutely. Is that likely to happen? Probably not.
View on Reddit #5390089

whodo-i-thinkiam@reddit

That depends on what you mean by "solve climate change." If it means to prevent any warming at all, well, yeah, absolutely it's too late for that. If it means prevent the worst case climate scenario, which is basically human extinction, it's definitely not too late. If it means limit warming to 1.5 C above preindustrial levels, it's probably too late, unless something really drastic were to happen very, very soon.
View on Reddit #5388647

gmuslera@reddit

There is no solution. There will be a lot of damage. Will it be so bad that mankind and most complex enough life on the planet will be extinct? We might have still the opportunity to change that outcome. In any case, we still keep accelerating (not slowing down, not keeping speed, but fully accelerating) towards doom. And that is the main factor to decide that there is no hope.
View on Reddit #5388322

Bigginge61@reddit

Yeah, course we are.. “Everything is fine” until 2100… 😂😂😂😂
View on Reddit #5388143

Bigginge61@reddit

These Hopium heads are looking increasingly silly and infantile. Does he really believe his own bs? Who knows?!
View on Reddit #5388075

AsherTheDasher@reddit

still better to try than to die
View on Reddit #5378724

OvalNinja@reddit

Instinct TM
View on Reddit #5387929

No-Albatross-5514@reddit

Yeah, just like everybody can become a millionaire if the just work hard enough
View on Reddit #5379733

youreadusernamestoo@reddit

It's true! Narrator: It is not.
View on Reddit #5386605

Alternative-Cod-7630@reddit

Trade carbon credits faster!
View on Reddit #5376909

youreadusernamestoo@reddit

Quickly! Change the way we measure! Find any possible number we can use as carbon offset!!
View on Reddit #5386509

throwawaylurker012@reddit

the stock market of carbon credits will save us! high frequency carbon credit trading! like pokemon cards but for the environment!
View on Reddit #5382963

Frozty23@reddit

I'm gonna start mining Carbon Credit Crypto Coins! If I run my A/C hard enough, I can have a dozen rigs mining coins simultaneously. I'm doing my part!
View on Reddit #5385132

Enthusiast9@reddit

This shouldn’t mean we need to go full stream ahead off the cliff. Let’s us at least have a moment to enjoy the end peacefully.
View on Reddit #5383714

Obligatory_Burner@reddit

Ohhh lawrd has gensler gone mainstream? 🤣 gloriously done. See ya on the dark side of the moon.
View on Reddit #5375109

StatementBot@reddit

The following submission statement was provided by /u/Bellybutton_fluffjar: --- SS. It's too late, we fucked up. There's still time to save a remnant of humanity and perhaps 10% of species, but oblivion is locked in. There are still too many people urging calm when we should be panicking. Related to collapse because this kind of gaslighting will make things get worse, much quicker. "We still have time" is just climate procrastination. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/14z8fdt/sorry_gaslight_gary_you_have_no_power_here/jrwk7cl/
View on Reddit #5373485