Tesla is done in Germany: 94% say they won’t buy a Tesla car
Posted by king_bardock@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 172 comments
Posted by king_bardock@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 172 comments
00x0xx@reddit
Tesla is done globally. Who wants to be associated with a rich elite that publicly works against the interest of both the environment and working man?
AdolphNibbler@reddit
You'd be surprised. I've just been to a rich suburb of Toronto, and propel are still flaunting their Tesla's and buying in Americans stores. Reddit is too disconnected with reality.
purple_tr3m0nk3y@reddit
Most in Asia dont care, for better or worse. Im talking Singapore, Indonesia, China, Malaysia, etc. the wealth gap here is so obscene and issues around the environment is only a “working-man problem”.
What Im saying is dont let up. Keep fighting.
Roxylius@reddit
The same reason why most of Asia will ditch Tesla for cheaper and higher quality BYD
AsterKando@reddit
True. Elon’s reputation is more or less the same as it was pre-MAGA. Still, Tesla’s sales are dropping YoY due to competition from Chinese EVs
purple_tr3m0nk3y@reddit
Exactly. Thanks for making it clearer. We (in the SEA) dont really base our purchases on a CEO’s ethics or morality. We just want a bang for our buck.
NamerNotLiteral@reddit
Teslas were never all that popular in South and South-East Asia simply because it didn't have enough prestige for wealthier people and very few of the techy, early-adopter types had enough wealth to be able to afford it.
glymao@reddit
Trump can nationalize Ford and GM to fold them into Tesla as a state-owned automobile monopoly. This is already halfway done as both Ford and GM are utterly incapable of competing with the outside world, and the US is clearly becoming the next Soviet Union with the prohibitive EV tariffs.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
Stop lying, no he absolutely cannot. The President does not have that kind of power.
glymao@reddit
yet
Solarwinds-123@reddit
Sure, Congress could potentially delegate that power to him. But saying he can currently do that is an outright lie and you know it.
OG_Grunkus@reddit
We’re gonna learn a lot about what can happen these next few years
gbcfgh@reddit
Step 1: declare a state of emergency at the southern border
Step 2: Enact the wartime production act, jumping the line for increasingly rare raw materials (microchips, aluminum, steel) and handing them to your sole contractor, TeslaX Step 3: wait for production in Detroit to come to a screeching halt, driving down the share price amidst crumbling sales, soaring prices and consumer uncertainty. Because factories shut down. Step 4: guarantee Elmo FTC clearance for Tesla acquisition of Big Three controlling interests in exchange for resource access.
I am an idiot and came up with this scheme at 3 in the morning. I am sure Donny Naranja and the Ketamine Krew can slap something together that is similarly toxic.
thehollowman84@reddit
Trump and Musks issue is that without the benefit of the US 24 hour propaganda system, anyone outside of that can just see them for what they are.
They are both deeply, naturally unlikeable men.
jaetran@reddit
Supposedly there was a leaked text from Rubio who witnessed Trump sitting on the floor with Elon curled up on his lap crying about Tesla’s stock
Solarwinds-123@reddit
I'd love to see a real source on that
Mllns@reddit
Billionaire wannabes
king_bardock@reddit (OP)
pissing off the actual potential buyers to appease the people of political spectrum who would never buy electric car at all, I am totally flabbergasted.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
Germany is one of the few countries in the world that is actually respectful of their history. They are taught they WERE the bad guys.
They are incredibly aware that history can repeat itself. I have nothing but absolute respect for Germany taking such an incredibly strong stance against an actual Nazi.
Fuck him up Germany. Canada stands beside you.
TheCatInTheHatThings@reddit
Hold your horses, 20.8% of us just voted for the Nazis in blue. 28.5% voted for the guys who thought it was a good idea to pull a von Papen and start passing shit with the Nazis in blue.
I’d wait until we have a governing coalition that doesn’t involve AfD until I’d make such a claim ;)
mightygilgamesh@reddit
Just like in France. As soon as the last main politicians never knew WW2 or lived in the early post war, they don't care about alliance with nazis...
As an "intelligent" specie we failed to create memory.
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
Meanwhile we still have open communists.
mightygilgamesh@reddit
Whatever we think about communism, everything we feard would happen under communism is happening under capitalism (americans can't buy eggs, can't pay rent, must work 2 jobs to make ends meet, etc...), so I guess people don't care.
Ans also we don't hear about communists killing people for fun like fascists do when they shoot people during pride parade, or simply run over them with their cars, or even as is the case in France, kill people with the police keeping a blind eye a few meters away.
marklein@reddit
I've wondered for a while of 100 year cycles of fascism is a normal part of civilizations at our level of development.
mightygilgamesh@reddit
If I look at France's History (I don't know other History as well), I'd say boulangism was the first seed of fascism, roughly 1885-1890. fascism as we know it was in the 1930's, and now fascism started to rise again since 2002. That's 40 and 77 years cycles.
Fascism movements never died, but what brings them to power is always concentration of wealth going to a point where the people is struggling economically and a "radical" left is strong enough (more than 5% LMAO) to frighten the wealthy, and the wealthy start to get monopolies on media.
KingSweden24@reddit
One wonders how late 19th century French history would have panned out had Boulanger not been as indecisive as he was. The ring was there to be seized had he wanted it
Mr-Anderson123@reddit
I think Bonapartism was the first seed of fascism as we know it. At least on the nationalist and imperialist part
BillyYank2008@reddit
You could argue that Louis XIV's absolutism had some elements as well, and perhaps the extreme religious conflicts and persecutions of the late 16th and early 17th century did as well.
SoberGin@reddit
I think cycles of history are mostly nonsensical as a concept. Any semblance of cycles is usually contrived at best, and the ones which do appear to be accurate are usually not cycles but simply symptoms of material conditions.
It's not a magic cycle that's making fascism come back- it's the continued failure of neoliberalism to do anything combined with the universal truth that capitalists will always prefer the fascist that will let them keep their money than the socialist who won't.
Maardten@reddit
"History doesn't repeat, but it often rhymes."
redpandaeater@reddit
I've always been a fan of Ibn Khaldun's concept of Assabiyah and its sense of tribal cohesion.
Sillyoldman88@reddit
For anyone else curious.
https://www.amust.com.au/2019/10/ibn-khalduns-concept-of-asabiyah/
SuperUranus@reddit
Sweden too.
The current government is actively working together with a literal Nazi party. Like literal, it was founded by a guy who went to Germany to join the SS legion, and then founded the party because he wanted to spread nazism over Europe once again.
20% of the voting population votes for those guys.
Alpha_Majoris@reddit
I wonder how many of those 20.8% voters lived in (the old communist) eastern Germany. That makes a huge difference. Western Germany was taught THEY were the bad guys. Eastern Germany (DDR) was different. The problem with eastern Germany is that they somehow missed the boat on the economic boost of the last 20 years. It's probably a cultural leftover from the USSR-era, where they couldn't adapt to the western way of thinking and living and working. Now they vote "anti", and AfD is right there feeding them with their vile hate.
Username_II@reddit
Unforntunately that still makes you one the least nazi countries in Europe.
Systral@reddit
True, but there's been immense anti AFD protest and most people are very aware of their danger, and a petition was passed to the Bundestag to check whether a ban of the party is possible.
Electrox7@reddit
100% of Nazis voted for AFD, that is pretty much true. But not all AFD voters are Nazis. Many are in denial that they are a nazi parti and just want radical change. Conservatives who are frustrated with the status quo voted AFD.
merelyadoptedthedark@reddit
If you go to a dinner with nine Nazis, there are ten Nazis at the table.
Doc_Lazy@reddit
sure, if one is blind, deaf and soulless maybe. The AFD is vocal enough about their radical ideas that anyone who votes for them is at least a okay with whatever brown lurks below.
Deathcrow@reddit
it's the perfect storm of apathy, intellectual laziness and a 'fuck you, I got mine" attitude. I've always struggled with the thought that so many people were fine with the NSDAP, but I understand it a bit better now.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
They aren't a Nazi party, and neo-Nazis don't vote AfD. There's already a party for them, it's called NPD (recently renamed Die Heimat)
LawsonTse@reddit
Not sure if the never pass anything with AFD was sensible to begin with. A broken clock is still right twice a day, and wouldn't unconditional rejection of their platform just allow them to monopolise the actually popular policies that they support?
AffenMitWaffen2@reddit
No, since the position never was "vote against everything they support", it's actually "never pass a bill only because of the Afd".
If a bill is supported by enough other parties to pass it and they vote in favour as well that's fine.
Doc_Lazy@reddit
it has been tried. It doesn't work. Enabling fascists in any way whatsoever does not mallow them. It does not reduce their numbers and it does not lead to people not for voting the original.
That being said, the powers that be still have to concern themselves with the root causes that drive normal people into the fascists arms. And they need to be vocal about it.
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
Only for the holocaust though. I don't see anywhere near the same amount of remorse for the genocide they committed against the Namibians.
DerCatrix@reddit
Still better than what America teaches. We talk about the trail of tears like it was a neat stroll everyone agreed to.
Solarwinds-123@reddit
That may have been your experience, but in high school I was taught about the horrific conditions of the trail of tears.
KingSweden24@reddit
It depends very broadly what state you’re in, granted, considering the latitude districts have in setting their own curriculum
AnUninformedLLama@reddit
Oh I agree it’s a step in the right directions. I just think it was just not executed properly as the only lesson the Germans seemed to have learned is “blindly simp for Israel no matter what”
ycnz@reddit
They're also huge proponents of wiping out Palestinians.
SyriseUnseen@reddit
... what, no
ycnz@reddit
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/11/8/why-is-germany-supporting-israels-genocide-in-gaza
SyriseUnseen@reddit
Very unbiased article without a ton of wild claims /s
I live in Germany, support for Israel is obviously a big thing, but few people (politicians included) condone the violence in Gaza.
ycnz@reddit
At this point, surely you comprehend that support for Israel is support for wiping out Palestinians, right?
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/27/europe/german-citizens-israel-right-to-exist-intl/index.html
Is CNN also antisemitic? Germany aren't asking immigrants if Poland has a right to exist.
usefulidiotsavant@reddit
Maybe not proponents, but they are scared of confronting the Israelis on any issue and they go along with their most absurd policies. One of the most effective victims of Israel's "anyone who disagrees with us is an antisemite" foreign policy. Sadly, this garbage spills over into the entire EU.
ycnz@reddit
They're not victims. They're enthusiastic collaborators.
Username_II@reddit
Such an easy target, though
Toke27@reddit
how so?
SyriseUnseen@reddit
Because that genocide wasnt really a "german matter" in the sense of political or public participation. It was an act of revenge for a massacre, decided and carried out by thd colonial military. Once Wilhelm II. caught wind of it, he immediately ordered the end of the operation - the public also wasnt particularily delighted after they were informed.
It's much easier to say "hey we didnt want this (as a people)" when you actually didnt, rather than that other time around when most people were aware what was happening and condoned it.
lickyagyalcuz@reddit
Said by somebody who’s never stepped foot in Germany.
SilverDiscount6751@reddit
They are ptsd about their history. The game Wolfenstein had to remove hitler's mustache and change the nazi flags of the villains of the game! They are letting themselves be "conquered" by mass immigration because they fear that saying no to it will be too much to the right.
They are sensless, just in a different way.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
Who the hell are you to state who Canada 'stands beside'?
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
I’m the governor of Canada.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
You aren't even the governor of your own goddamn house.
Get a grip.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
odd, a Canadian would know we don't have governors. Perhaps you aren't really from where you say.
Angry_drunken_robot@reddit
I'm not the one claiming to be a governor.
You wanna meet up on the corner of Barton and Gage in Hamilton?
We can have a real 'Hamilton' style conversation.
6pm, tonight. Lets go.
IAmTaka_VG@reddit
so you doxxed yourself and are threatening violence. Bro just delete this or you're going to get banned, I'm not going to report you btw but seriously delete that post before reddit admins ban you.
Jertimmer@reddit
Bruh.
Germany is actively silencing any and every anti-genocide protest.
GianfrancoZoey@reddit
Is this comment ironic? Genuinely can’t tell
psychpsychpsychpsy@reddit
No, it's true. They are like Japan. They know what they did and what was done to them and they keep the knowledge alive so as to never repeat it. They have laws and stuff about it
Muldrex@reddit
Japan is one of the most revisionist nations around, what are you even talking about???
GreenCreep376@reddit
Considering that the history textbooks covers Imperial Japan and its war crimes, that automatically makes it less revisionist then 90% of the world.
ickdrasil@reddit
the Japanese are not like that at all
psychpsychpsychpsy@reddit
They have monuments everywhere dedicated to war-time Japan just like Germany. Many of them are anti-war. They aren't necessarily aligned with Germany as far as "we are the bad guys" because maybe what you are saying is that japanese people have a history of denying bad things they have done (ie: Korea). But the large majority of them push a no war and world peace mindset. This is just based on my study of the country's geopolitics, my keeping up with their news, and having lived there for a number of years and seen these artifacts in person.
scoutmosley@reddit
They have monuments for the bombs that the US dropped on them, not dedicated to showcasing their awareness of the fact they were on the wrong side of history and dedication to never repeat it. Most Japanese citizens have no clue that their country was on the Nazi side of WWII or that they were the aggressors that directly caused the bombs being deployed on their cities. America was at best, sitting on their hands, but fucking up Pearl Harbor caused them to go nuclear. Literally.
sharinganuser@reddit
They're also not taught about things like the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731.
GreenCreep376@reddit
You cover both lol
merelyadoptedthedark@reddit
Japan has apologised several times for what they did in Korea, and has given them cash as well as aided in building their industry as reparations.
bob_denard@reddit
Not sure what to believe, I have often heard that young Japanese know close to nothing about the atrocities perpetrated by the IJA.
psychpsychpsychpsy@reddit
You are right. I think my argument was more generally that are educated about the costs of war and therefore avoid it
Rindan@reddit
No, this is not ironic. The Germans teach their grizzly history, say it was very bad, and don't sugar coat it. This is different from Japan which tends to gloss over World War II to Japan's atrocities during the war.
merelyadoptedthedark@reddit
Japanese students are taught that they did bad shit during WW2.
It doesn't go into full detail, but they aren't completely oblivious to what happened.
Source: my Japanese wife that learned about this in school.
Toke27@reddit
Japanese students are taught a very superficial and sanitized version of what Japan did. German students are taught about the full history and atrocities committed by the Nazis, and WHY it happened. These things are very much glossed over in Japan.
GreenCreep376@reddit
As someone from Japan no. The history curriculum does cover Japanese war crimes and doesn't sanitize anything it just isn't covered as thoroughly. If you go thrugh the Japanes history curriculum you would absolutely come out of it knowing Imperial Japan was bad. "and WHY it happened." The Japanese history curriculum ironically does this better then the Koreans and Chinese.
Username_II@reddit
Let's not forget Austria that to this day pretend they weren't germans and had nothing to do with it
tincho_7890@reddit
That’s not true at all, my partner is from Austria and her education was very similar to the German one. No sugar coating, and they even go further back to also analyse the austro fascist movement that was against the nazis but not in a good way.
1jf0@reddit
and the US
Garagenfund@reddit
It isn't. For example the visit of a concentration camp is something that is part of history class in school.
TheCatInTheHatThings@reddit
Not necessarily. I never went to one. Still was fed the whole story though, in brutal detail and all. But the idea that visits to concentration camps are mandatory are a myth.
Garagenfund@reddit
Zumindest in Bayern ist es im Lehrplan aller weiterführenden Schulen enthalten. Wie es in den anderen Bundesländern ist, weiß ich nicht, bin davon ausgegangen dass es ebenso ist. Aber gut möglich dass das falsch ist.
arostrat@reddit
They are taught but seem they never learned the lesson.
Key-Assistant-7988@reddit
It's not ironic but it completely ignores the return of the far-right at the last election.
EquivalentTomorrow31@reddit
Yet they are voting far right at an astonishing rate. Ok chief
Bourbonaddicted@reddit
So why do they purchase a vw?
Lascho94@reddit
We get though that such a genocide must never happen again. But on the other hand, our officials support Israel.
Toke27@reddit
It's understandable really given Germany's history with jews. Germany is scared of coming off anti-semitic, so you over-correct too far the other way.
The4thJuliek@reddit
It's not over-correcting, it's a convenient opportunity for people here to push the blame onto others, so they can say, "See, we're not the only bad ones". The AfD are at the forefront of this because they can blame Muslims for everything and excuse the Nazis.
ElectricalIce2564@reddit
Correct. If they truly reckoned with the past then they'd be trying to right the wrongs of their colonial history, amongst other things. Instead they did a half-assed "my bad, everyone" and then went back to being typical western chauvinists touting all the typical pro-west lines and narratives.
Chance-Plantain8314@reddit
Crazy thing to say about the extremely pro-zionist German government honestly
MarshallHaib@reddit
They only recognized that they committed a genocide in Namibia in 2021. Respectful of their history my ass!
TitaniumGoldAlloyMan@reddit
They support Israel which is committing genocide on the Palestinians. I wouldn’t be so sure about that. Germany tends to defend evil just because of their past. They believe they can’t open their mouth because the bully was once bullied by them.
iBoMbY@reddit
No Germany isn't respectful to their history at all. Germany has a major raise in right wing votes at the last election, and is fully supporting an actual genocide.
Material-Pudding@reddit
Ironically the ignorance in the sentiment of this comment encapsulates how Germany managed to create a system that ensures they learn nothing from their Nazi past
NY Times did a surprisingly decent overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLWLb0RM7HQ
ScaryShadowx@reddit
Are we talking about the same country that is blindly supporting Israel's current ethnic cleansing in Gaza and cracking down on anyone protesting Israeli actions?
I don't think the lesson they learnt is the one you think they did.
Nethlem@reddit
I know people outside Germany love to think that, but the truth is sadly a bit more nuanced than that, which is why stuff like the "clean Wehrmacht" was openly peddled until 2013.
And that only changed after a literal neo-Nazi terror organisation was uncovered, one that recieved support from the Verfassungsschutz because the FRG's political landscape has always been firmly located in the authoritarian right.
Fluffy_Beautiful2107@reddit
You mean the country that’s been cracking down harder than any other in Europe against people who protest against the indiscriminate bombing of civilians in Gaza ? I don’t think they learned any more than their neighbors.
Scrizzleino@reddit
U talking about the same country I grew up with that has fascism so pure in its blood that it never really vanished (denazification is a myth the "conservative" CDU had more nsdap members after the war than the nsdap in 1933) and just stayed there under the hood until the mildest inconvenience occures and half the country votes bigoted assholes again? Are u sure about your comment?
hhh74939@reddit
Huh?
mritoday@reddit
To be fair, nobody in Germany was buying a Tesla to begin with.
I'm not sure I've ever seen one. I probably have and missed it, but they are pretty rare.
There's also some recent bad press about how a way higher than expected number of workers at the Tesla factory in Germany are out sick, and how they're threatening to withhold wages of these workers.
The first is a sign of terrible working conditions, the latter is straight out illegal.
onespiker@reddit
They were like the 3rd biggest market for teslas if I remember correctly?
HeartZombie2@reddit
you did
IloveElsaofArendelle@reddit
Ugh, unfortunately I saw 2-3 here in Aachen, I had such an urge to be all them out....
Fickmichoder@reddit
Bielefeld is full of them. There even is a Rewe in my neighborhood with Tesla brand loading stations.
And I'll do the joke myself: Bielefeld doesn't exist, so therefore the Teslas don't count
Nethlem@reddit
See them pretty regularly in South Germany, guess that's the "wealthier part of Germany" showing.
jack_napier69@reddit
No, I see them in bumfuck MV pretty regular as well. The commenter was either completely pulling this out their ass or has zero clue about cars whatsoever (why write a post like this then?).
SaulsAll@reddit
That was my confusion. Why would they be buying Teslas in the first place? Germany is known for good cars.
iBoMbY@reddit
What a load of horse crap. Tesla was at least number 3 in total in Germany last year, and Model Y was the best selling model.
Alex_Yuan@reddit
Maybe depends on the region but where I live (BW, Heidelberg-Karlsruhe-Stuttgart) model Ys and 3s are pretty popular. Hopefully no one buys any new Swasticars though.
Abusing_MH@reddit
I see them daily driving to or from work. Not sure where your are staying. In NRW you see Tesla all the time.
JoeAppleby@reddit
I see quite a few of them here in Berlin, even before the Grünheide plant opened.
The4thJuliek@reddit
There are quite a few Teslas here in Frankfurt but I expect many of the owners are embarrassed now...
J3sush8sm3@reddit
I mean within the past 3 years they only sold around 20,000. So the potential 100,000 people wasnt there in the first place
Arca1900@reddit
Germans STILL buy cars from companies that EXPLICITLY supported Nazis and Hitler
Volkswagen was founded under Hitler’s regime in 1937 as part of his "strength through joy" campaign.
Porsche's founder was a member of the SS who designed tanks for the Nazis among other vehicles.
BMW used forced labor from the concentration camps to build engines, motorcycles, and military equipment for the Nazis.
So did Opel.
So did Audi’s predecessor.
And so did Mercedes-Benz who even paid reparations for their use of slave labor.
So Germans should keep this virtue signaling to yourself.
yshywixwhywh@reddit
A lot of the damage being done to the brand would be reversible if they were still in a dominant position technologically. The problem is, they aren't: FSD has not panned out for them, in part due to their baffling insistence on cheaping out with a camera-only sensor system over lidar/radar hybrid arrays.
Roxylius@reddit
They are not even making their own battery anymore.
EnglishJesus@reddit
Mark Rober just made a YouTube video about the difference between the differences between Tesla’s Camera system and a LIDAR. It ends with the Tesla crashing into a wall painted to look like the road ahead
kenpus@reddit
Fun but admittedly not a common occurrence in real life.
Much less fun is how willing the Tesla was to drive into a cloud of smoke with zero visibility at full speed. That very much does happen IRL.
gummytoejam@reddit
Musk would have to completely divest for there to be hope that the car maker can survive this. The sensor issue is simple enough to solve.
yshywixwhywh@reddit
It's more significant than that.
FSD is/was the centerpiece of Tesla's argument that they are a "technology company" rather than an automaker. Outside of pure speculation and cult-of-personality their stock valuation is largely based on the presumption that they would win the race to develop and deploy mass-market FSD.
The years they've wasted trying to eek that level of performance out of substandard hardware cannot be reclaimed by simply adding some new sensors back in: these systems have to be engineered, trained, and refined as a unit.
gummytoejam@reddit
I've toyed around with computer vision and sensors using microcontrollers. It's um...not that hard. I'd imagine a team of engineers could whip up something competent fairly quickly or another technology company with a design could be acquired.
studio_bob@reddit
Multiple companies have burned billions trying to solve autonomous driving. Most have failed or given up. Only Google is anywhere close to widespread deployment with Waymo. It is not at simple as slapping some sensors and controllers on a car. It has to be commercially viable, and that's very hard for one big reason: safety.
gummytoejam@reddit
Obviously.
But saying that switching from a visual system to a sensor is the limiting issue, it is not. Quantitatively, visual data is more complex than lidar.
Not sure what you're on about implying Tesla et al's difficulty with the overall technology of self driving has anything to do with the difference between visual data versus lidar data.
NamerNotLiteral@reddit
See, this is the part where it becomes obvious that you don't know jackshit but are deep, deep into dunning kruger from having "toyed around with computer vision"
Vision has some rather fundamental problems re; occlusion and visual ambiguity. Visual data being more complex than lidar is the problem — you can't magic up more useful features from more complex data, and in fact the higher the ratio of useless data to useful features (which is the case for complex inputs) the less robust your model gets. Lidar as a modality, by itself, suffers from a lack of detail (and point clouds or fields are just more expensive computationally), so contrastively training vision and lidar data together lets each modality cover for the other's weakness and improves overall robustness.
There is a reason why everyone who's at Level 3 or Level 4 (Waymo) uses Vision+Lidar.
There is no scientific reason for Tesla to have dumped Lidar. The only reason they did was because Elon said so, and we know Elon is the poster child of sounding smart but being as dumb as rocks. The only one of his companies that's doing decently is SpaceX, and that's because they specifically have a team to 'manage' him whenever he tries to fuck around and Shotwell runs everything day to day.
gummytoejam@reddit
Oh I'm sorry. Did I upset your Elon hate circle jerk?
studio_bob@reddit
training with lidar versus vision-only requires a very different pipeline. Tesla has technical debt here in that switching to lidar would render all of their existing training data useless. It could have legal implications since they have sold FSD with cars that they would be admitting lack the hardware for the feature to actually function
Anyway, you said something suggesting it's a trivial problem. I was making the point that it isn't. Many large teams of accomplished engineers with tons of cash have failed.
gummytoejam@reddit
Tesla actually has technology based on radar they could bring back into the equation. They wouldn't have to start from scratch. It's probably less of a problem than you're making it out to be.
Nethlem@reddit
Mercedes has an actual level 3 system in Germany and the US, Honda is also pretty close to releasing their level 3 system.
And before somebody goes: "Yeah but it only works in" .
Indeed, that's what level 3 automation means, the important part is that in these situations the manufacturer will take over liability if the car does something wrong.
Something Tesla refuses to this day as their technology is still stuck on level 2, yet Tesla advertises it with "Take your attention off the traffic while the car does the driving!"
pleasebuymydonut@reddit
Man that should be illegal or something.
Jokes aside, I'm glad Tesla isn't allowed to sell cars with FSD in the country I live in. Drivers here are bad enough without it...
Racoonie@reddit
In traffic "fairly competent" doesn't cut it though. Tesla's have murdered people already.
Nethlem@reddit
Yeah, but then you have something like Elon Musk come in, and start "undesigning" everything to cut corners and save costs, i.e. removing Lidar sensors from Teslas and only relying on visual sensors.
That saves Tesla a ton of money, but it's also the way inferior technical solution that won't work the moment some bad weather/dirt on the camera gets involved.
gummytoejam@reddit
How did he interfere in the development of FSD at Tesla?
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
He personally made the decision re: LIDAR deletion.
fxmldr@reddit
Please. FSD will be ready this time next year. Musk has been saying that for about a decade now, so it must be true. /s
No-Spoilers@reddit
Only $86b of his wealth comes from tesla, he only owns 12%. He owns 42% of SpaceX, which adds like ~$150b to his wealth? He has been clearing the way for SpaceX to thrive. I don't think he cares about tesla as much as we think.
The sensor issue would have been simple to solve 8 years ago, but they fucked it every year and it's too late now.
AsterKando@reddit
Impossible, Tesla is extremely overvalued and a large part of the speculation comes from Elon’s marketed reputation as a genius problem solver and engineer
Winjin@reddit
Sounds amazing but I will believe it when I see it really
I've seen a couple too much of optimistic predictions on Reddit that has had nothing to do with reality...
AYoungFella12@reddit
This is not a reddit prediction. This is a post about result of a poll.
Winjin@reddit
A lot of sites have bias that aligns really well with Reddit's general leaning, so I've seen a lot of "source backed" news over the years that didn't really turn out to be... Rooted in reality, really.
ShowBoobsPls@reddit
The poll was a website poll, not a scientific one.
There's a ton of self selection bias and no weighting or stratification.
Narcissus44@reddit
Yeah no this isn't based in reality. It's a poll conducted on a news website.
Winjin@reddit
"A poll conducted on newspaper website showed that 95% of internet users like to take polls on news sites" basically
yungsmerf@reddit
Sales are down \~70% in Germany.
BAUWS45@reddit
I wouldn’t buy a new model Y, their most popular car, when they are coming out with a new one either.
Winjin@reddit
Yeah that's a big one too, I guess a lot of people could be waiting for new models
suiluhthrown78@reddit
EV competition was gonna ramp up eventually, it started slipping some time ago after dominating Norway for the last decade too, it was the only serious player in the game for so long
iBoMbY@reddit
Well, Tesla would do good for themselves if they got rid of Musk. That is for sure.
But anyways, most of the Germans wouldn't buy any EV, because it would suck a lot, because the charging infrastructure is a joke.
OtherwiseAct8126@reddit
Not sure if this number is so impressive, I mean how many people are even thinking about buying a new car, how many are thinking about buying an electric car? 6% market share for a car company sounds still quite good. Only 7.8% of new car registrations were BMW, so 92.2% of all Germans didn't want to buy a BMW at that moment. Still a big and successful brand.
Wompish66@reddit
There is a very big difference between market share and people saying they won't even consider a brand. It means that Tesla are only competing for 6% of the market.
OtherwiseAct8126@reddit
Still, how big was the number before? I don’t think they were ever really popular here, so maybe they fell from „10% would consider buying“ to „6%“
pythonic_dude@reddit
That's them losing 40% of their potential customers then. I'd say it's pretty catastrophic.
Looz-Ashae@reddit
No secret, that Europe is going the Russian way, they will buy Chinese cars, because they are broke. Or buying already, because some european brands has already been bought by China.
honda-harpaz@reddit
Let’s be real. 90% of the pollees would not buy ANY car at all.
I understand the sentiment but news about polls are always deliberately misleading. Reporters have totally deserted objectivity nowadays
leto78@reddit
Cars are extremely popular in Germany. It is a very car centric society. The unrestricted speed in the Autobahn is so important to Germans as the second amendment to Americans. There would be a revolution and the government would fall if speed limits were imposed.
RoamingBicycle@reddit
Tesla had a drop in sales in every major market except the UK in 2025. It's down i think 76% in Germany.
PurchaseNo5041@reddit
Fox News Headline: "6% of Germans planning to purchase Tesla's despite the vandalism occurring from domestic terrorists is the USA."
KriegsKuh@reddit
The Anti-tesla AfD post that this article uses is from 2019, this was before elon supported the afd, before elon even turned full nazi, this anti-tesla AfD post wasn't because of elons political views but because the AfD is strictly against any form of Electric Vehicle. they just hated tesla because it was the only popular EV on the market at the time. Ever since elon went more and more right wing to full blown nazi and even spoke out in support for the afd, the afd has not said a single bad word about teslas.
Nanerpoodin@reddit
What's funny is the typical solution to this sort of issue is the CEO steps down, gets a nice severance package, then goes on to head a different company in a few years. Tesla without Musk might thrive, but his ownership of Twitter is held up by his ownership of Tesla, so he's not really in a position to be fucking up.
I don't really understand what inspired him to go full Nazi salute, all things considered, other than pure stupidity and ego, but it's seems pretty short sighted to not consider how strongly consumers in some countries might react.
confusedmouse6@reddit
If Tesla's sales continue to decline significantly, it is likely that they would be forced to shut down their showrooms in multiple European countries, wouldn't they?
BAUWS45@reddit
An N of 100,000 from an online poll is absolutely not representative sample size this poll is ridiculous.
On top of that, they’re in the middle of retooling the model Y their most popular model so why would their sales be up, if a new model is not out yet?
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Ryuuji159@reddit
No sabía que el empleado estatal estaba en otros lados jaja
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