Why do I hate crossovers? Am I crazy for not liking them?
Posted by Radioaficionado_85@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 94 comments
I try not to judge others because they want a crossover. But I just never have really liked them, and sometimes I can't point out exactly why.
I guess one reason is they don't seem to fit, in my mind, neither the performance category (like a sleek sports car), nor a true econo car (too bulky to be truly aerodynamic) nor are tall enough to be a true off-road or deep-snow warrior (saying this as I passed a few AWD crossovers stuck in the snow in my 2WD sedan not that long ago).
They don't seem to have filled any needs that weren't filled before. Station wagons also can haul lots of stuff in a small car form. CUVs seem to have less leg room but more head room, which for me, at over 6ft tall, I've never been in a sedan or hatchback that I didn't have enough head room. I guess I don't wear big hats in cars. But leg room is almost always a problem for me. The only thing they seem to do well is bring a wagon-like experience in a shorter wheelbase. Is this their only true benefit? Well that, and you can wear bigger hats or hair styles in them?
I guess one thing that really put a bad taste in my mouth is when Mazda discontinued the Mazda 6 Wagon in favor of the CX-5. The 6 Wagon had more passenger and cargo space, got better fuel mileage, was more aerodynamic, had more power and cost less than the CX-5. Yet people still flocked to the CX-5 and abandoned the 6 wagon. Why? Does this mean CUVs are abominations that people are illogically attracted to or am I the irrational one here?
What else could it be that bothers me so much about them? How do I grow to like them, at least enough to not be put off every time someone asks me what crossover they should buy?
LivingGhost371@reddit
They do one thing much better than other cars- being a generic jack of all trades while a master of none. For a lot of people that trait is exactly makes it an idea family car, since being a "master of a trade" would involve unaccaptable compromises.
Towing? They all come with tow hitches or one can easily be added and while you maybe can't tow a yacht like a F350, you can easily tow the family boat, the family travel trailer, a utility trailer.
Snow performance? While you won't be going down the Rubicon trail in a blizzard and full time AWD can't match dedicated 4WD the larger tires and higher ground clearance make them superior in an ordinary blizzard to a sedan or wagon. I own a RAV4, and several times in a blizzard had to give my sister a ride to work because her Corolla got hung up on the snow on our unplowed side street before making it out to the main street. The advise of all the macho people that say "just get winter tires " isn't going to work if the car is that low.
Comfort? If you have a family, that means you're middle aged, or soon will be. My aging back can't tolerate the "knees above your hips" seating in sedans and wagons for any length of time.
Hauling? If you need to haul concrete blocks to a construction site? Again the wrong vehicle, you need a pickup that masters that. But a crossover can haul 99% of what a family needs without having to get it delivered. And unlike the sedan I had it's so nice to just lay my bicycle flat in back without taking off the wheel. Yes, wagons can haul similar cargo, but see the above points as to how their lacking in high h-point seating and snow performance.
"Car Guys" here might be excited by a zippy sports car. But most people get excited when they see the perfect vehicle to provide basic transportation to their family.
Judes01@reddit
I’m sorry, this is random. I saw you posted a comment on some other thread about the maintenance items that should be done on RAV4s in the sub-2010 age range. Maybe something about a metal vs rubber hose of some sort? A water pump?
I lost your other comment, but can I bug you here for advice on the small things like that to do in order to prevent catastrophic failures/expensive repairs? We have a 2008 V6 with 193k miles so it’s getting up there in age!
Thanks if you can jog the memory of what you wrote in that other comment. No worries if not.
LivingGhost371@reddit
1) 2008 and earlier (and a few early 2009 Canada built) an oil hose connecting one part of the engine to another had a rubber elbow that would crack and allow all the oil to drain out in under a minute. Toyota owned up to the issue and came out with an all metal part for 2009 on that could also be fitted to earlier models and in fact did a "limited service campaign" through 2021 to retrofit earlier ones.
http://media.fixed-ops.com/toy_campaigns/90k_dlrltr.pdf
2) Initially the water pump would fail a lot sooner than it should have, either slow leaks or a catastrophic failure. Toyota never owned up to this one, but around 2010 the complaints with new production cars or replaced water pumps died down, Toyota seem to have quietly improved the part as a running production change. Toyotas official way to change it involves pulling the engine, but there's a shortcut on YouTube that involves loosening a few pipes and mounts and doing a lot of grunting and cursing.
Judes01@reddit
Wow this is even more detailed than the earlier comment I read. Thank you kindly for providing the history behind these known issues. I hope this vehicle of ours turns out to be as low-fuss as yours after doing some preventative maintenance!
So are those first two topics the ones that are recommended to be done preventatively? The breather valve not included on the list of must-do replacement? Just a problem to look out for?
LivingGhost371@reddit
Pre 2009 Oil hose absolutely needs to be done preventively if it hasn't already.
Pre 2011 Water Pump due to the complexity of the job it's hard to recommend just doing it because unless your risk tolerance is extremely low and you can yourself or have a friend / shadetree mechanic to do it the shortcut way.
Viscous coupler and breather valve you generally just do when and if they become a problem in that they're unlikely to disable the vehicle as opposed to just annoyingly start to leak gear oil on your garage floor. As a pratical matter you have to drop the rear differential to replace the valve, so it probably makes sense to wait for if it happens rather than to try to do it preventively, and just also replace the seals at that point if it does since you already have the differential removed.
Just if you have someone replace the seals, make absolutely sure they also replace the valve even if you have to walk back into the shop and snap in a new one yourself. I did have to do this on my car (forgot to mention it), was about $850 at a not particularly cheap mechanic. He told me that the differential had non-factory seals on it, like it had leaked previously and the previous owner just replaced the seals so the problem reoccured.
Here's a description from my mechanic's blog
https://carspecmn.com/toyota-rav4-rear-differential-leak-preventing-reoccuring-leaks/
cowabungathunda@reddit
I hate the just get winter tires crowd. Just spend $1500 on an extra set of tires and wheels, store them for eight months out of the year and fuck around swapping them. No thank you. My wife's minivan is front wheel drive and I don't bother with snow tires on it, just good all seasons with the extreme snow rating or whatever it's called and it does pretty good.
panther38t@reddit
It would do way better and be much safer with proper snow tires. Also, you should be able to get a good set online for maybe $600 to $700 at most and can get extra wheels from a junkyard for cheap.
cowabungathunda@reddit
I don't care. It actually does pretty good, no issues. You know what I'm not going to do is store another set of wheels. Cost isn't an issue, fucking around with it is. I don't live in the mountains, I don't live out in the country, all I need to do is make it out of my neighborhood.
panther38t@reddit
Well depends where you live, if you're in Canada or upstate NY it's definitely worth the added hassle because it's a safety issue
AdamN@reddit
The shop stores the tires usually unless you’re changing your own.
cyn_ou@reddit
Uhh I mean, it really depends on how much snow you get.
I'm in canada, and I usually put winters on for like 5/6 months. It's really not that hard to swap them off either. Like ~25 minutes if that?
Respectfully, in conditions where we sometimes get 20+ cm of snow a day, all seasons are just not a good idea. I see tones of people getting stuck with them on. I mean, I had allseasons on when I got my new car and got stuck as well lol
onemasterball@reddit
Winter tires making sense heavily environmental context dependent. If you live somewhere with long winters of frequent heavy snowfall it's worth it. If you live somewhere with mild winters it's probably not.
For what it's worth I run all seasons in Chicago and stay off the roads when it's too bad. If I had a job that didn't let me WFH in bad weather I'd probably buy snow tires.
Late-External3249@reddit
Yeah but your summer tires last longer. I was once like you. But i learned the error of my ways.😋
cowabungathunda@reddit
No shit, but you had to buy an additional set of tires for that.
SuperDabMan@reddit
Well it's like the boot theory... rich man affords expensive boot, lasts years. Poor man buys cheap boots every year and still has wet feet. Long term the rich man spent less and had a better experience.
You're really just buying the extra wheels, not tires, and cheap/used steel wheels are no biggie.
cowabungathunda@reddit
Right. Except in the boot analogy the rich man buys one pair that lasts while the poor man has to buy a new inferior pair every year because he can't afford quality. Your snow tires analogy is to buy two pairs of quality tires so you can mess around swapping them. Nothing lasts longer but you will get better performance in the winter. That doesn't really fit the boot analogy.
I said it in a different post, I'm not in the mountains, I'm not out in the country. All my wife really needs to do is get out of our neighborhood and her minivan does just fine with that. I live in the northern plains, we got thundersnow last night which was pretty cool. i have a full size pickup with 4x4. There's really no scenario where I'm ever going to buy snow tires where I live. I've driven in snow all my life and as long as you have decent tires you'll be fine.
SuperDabMan@reddit
Nah it's a good analogy. Shitty boots is like having summer tires in winter, or winter tires in summer. Good boots is like having the right tires for the season.
I explicitly said it's region dependent. The vast majority of humans don't need winter tires. That's cool. Some of us actually do benefit from it, and in regions like this the competition to winter tires is all-weather, which are like all-season but with winter tire rubber strips so you end up with a little worse performance and tire wear in the summer, and worse performance in the winter, than having independent sets. The tires last the same amount of km so driving half as much per tire set means they last twice as long and in the long run if you ever wore out a set of tires, you'd be in the same exact financial position as if you only had one set if not a better position thanks to improved summer wear.
Zealousideal_Sir_264@reddit
A heavy fwd is shockingly capable in bad weather (in town or the freeway).
Shadowfax_279@reddit
Buying snow tires for my Celica was more economical than buying a different car and I drove 8 Minnesota winters in that car with no issues.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Thanks! Very logical answer, thank you.
I would say though that sedans can also tow. I have a custom tow hitch on my hybrid sedan (commercial ones are also available but I wanted more ground clearance than they give).
I guess I'm macho, I just get winter tires and put on chains if I have to. I can see why not everyone wants to do that, but I'm also frugal, so chaining up like an old guy set in his ways it is for me.
Turnips4dayz@reddit
Pick one jfc. Extra tires, wheels, and chains? Easy 1200-2000 or more depending on used vs. new etc. If you live in an apartment or townhouse in a decent size city, you don’t have random extra space to store tires and wheels so now you’re paying for storage for them too
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
What!? Chains aren't that expensive. And I have all-weather tires that are winter rated but have good performance and wear on hot dry pavement, so no need for another set of rims or tires. If there is one thing I will not cut back on is good tires. I live in a small town where there are three ski areas within 30 minutes of here. Steep snowy mountain passes that go up to some 12,000ft and then back down to 5,000ft.
AWD as an excuse to "not splurge on winter rated tires" is the lamest excuse I've heard time and time again. I would never get a gas guzzling AWD crossover or SUV just to "save money on tires." My sedan does fine. I also plow snow for the county and I plow it good enough for my car to get through, so personally I'm not worried about it.
Turnips4dayz@reddit
You clearly don’t value your time the way many others do, not are you willing to even consider the notion that not everyone has access to a garage or otherwise simple way of changing out and storing tires as I called out above. Enjoy your tires
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
But I just said I don't store or change tires. All-weather tires do not need to be changed but are winter rated both at the same time. What is your point or did you just not understand?
Turnips4dayz@reddit
Then you don’t have “winter tires” the way that everyone else in this forum will use the word. Just go piss off
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Man! Didn't you wake up on the wrong side of the bed.
Sorry that my all-weather tires have the same traction and three-peak snow flake symbol as dedicated winter tires and therefore are a winter tire.
I'm also sorry you think AWD is cheaper and better than getting some good tires. Personally I enjoy getting 40mpg and passing brand new 4WD pickups stuck on the side of the pass in my 2WD car that's paid off.
SuperDabMan@reddit
That's like saying RADAR brand summer tires are equivalent to Michelin Pilot Sport A/S because they have the same treadwear and grip ratings. My wife's old ass Mazda had X-ICE tires which became too worn and we wanted to sell it so we got her some decent Bridgestone all seasons (with the M+S) and it isn't even close to the same performance in winter. Now, maybe you have mild winters, but to say they are the same is not true.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
All-seasons and all-weather tires aren't the same. But still, I'd drive with all-seasons in the winter here if I had to, but still prefer something with three peaks and a snowflake. I'm just not going to buy an AWD as an excuse to "not have to" buy tires with some sort of winter grip, be they all-seasons, all-weathers or dedicated snow tires. I'd much rather spend my money on tires than on AWD.
I've driven in the Colorado Rockies for the past 35 years as a commercial driver and have driven every type of vehicle imaginable over them. AWD is definitely over-rated. Good tires with enough tread on them are well worth the money. The entire point of this sub thread is that "I'm not frugal because I didn't buy an AWD crossover and instead buy snow-rated tires and use them on a FWD hybrid."
SuperDabMan@reddit
Ah yes, you are correct, sorry I missed that. All weather are basically all season with strips of softer rubber. Unfortunately that means you get a little more summer wear and a little worse winter traction than the alternatives.
I agree with AWD overrated at least in terms of safety. Being able to maneuver and stop is safe, and all 4 tires do that regardless of drivetrain, and it entirely depends on their quality. I'd rather good winter tires and fwd than all seasons (or even all weather) and awd.
But AWD acceleration is significantly better, which means much more fun in winter.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
No worries!
If I had more money I'd buy an AWD and dedicated snow tires as I'd also have a place to store them, preferably on their own rims too. Still, I think I'd prefer a sedan or hatchback over a CUV even though the CUV has more ground clearance. That new Camry sure looks like the kind of car I'd want (to bad no stick shift). But maybe with more money in my hands I'd see crossovers differently and actually want to buy one.
Letscurlbrah@reddit
Your point about snow rings hollow to me. I own a truck, a CUV and an AWD sports sedan. I drive them all in the winter in Canada just fine.
LivingGhost371@reddit
You never need to get to work before your streets are plowed and the snow accumulation is higher than the bottom of your sports sedan?
Letscurlbrah@reddit
I have never been unable to drive my car to work in a circumstance that driving literally any vehicle would have been a bad idea. The truck is clearly better off-road, but in a city I've never needed it.
LivingGhost371@reddit
Well, as I said I needed to take my sister to work when her Corolla literally got hung up on the unplowed snow on the street because it didn't have enough ground clearance. So my experience is different.
Letscurlbrah@reddit
That's probably a lot more to do with it being FWD, and likely the wrong tires.
dsmjrv@reddit
That’s why most American families get trucks or real SUVs, they tick all the boxes except gas mileage, the space and comfort alone is worth the gas
hudsoncress@reddit
There are cars that try to have trucky features, but they're not trucks. Crossovers are station wagons. Trucks are trucks. A Subaru Crosstrek is barely even a station wagon, and has zero truck DNA.
Ok-Anteater-384@reddit
They're neither here nor there, so here is the "crossover". A good choice for the elderly of folks with a physical disability, easier entry and exit. Consider it a compromise for comfort.
Dedward5@reddit
This is pretty much a weekly post. I don’t care either way, if people like them fine, if you don’t like them, fine. I find it wired how people are so grumpy about other peoples choices (other than stupid dangerous/illegal crap)
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I guess I'm grumpy because the popular vote makes cars that used to be available and affordable less available and less affordable. Wagons are almost all extinct, the econo segment is dead after they kill the Nissan Versa this year and I miss driving a stick.
withsexyresults@reddit
Theres still tons of civics corolla model 3. If you want manual awd sedan, new wrx is like low 30s. What are you missing
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I define econo car as a sub $20k car when brand new (based on around current inflation). If you adjust for inflation there has always been a car around $15k to $17k, but currently that would be only the Nissan Versa or Mitsubishi Mirage and those are getting axed. In 2026 the cheapest car would be right at around $20k, so maybe the Chevy Trax is the new econo car, although at over $21k it's not exactly as econo as previous econo cars.
Used cars should be dirt cheap. I got my current car, the biggest sedan from Toyota, the Avalon, for $15k at 50k miles and 5 years old. Nowadays you can't find a car with those miles and years for $15k, not even a car like a Yaris or Honda Fit.
withsexyresults@reddit
Sounds more like you want cheap cars not necessarily a suv vs car thing
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Perhaps. But then again the Chevy Trax is set to be the cheapest car in the USA by next year and yet I wouldn't buy one even if it were half it's price.
withsexyresults@reddit
Me neither, wouldn’t want a trax or versa. At low end of market these things won’t be fun suv or car. Go up in price ladder to find something better
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
The Versa would be a car I'd buy. It's a lot like the cars I've owned over the years, a 1972 VW Super Beetle, a 1984 VW Golf n/a diesel, a 1993 Mazda 323. A Versa with a stick would be exactly what I'd want, almost the perfect car for me IMO. I'm kind of hoping my current car blows up accidentally so I can get a new Versa this year before they're gone.
jckipps@reddit
A crossover is simply the most practical daily-driver type of car possible. It has space for five adults, some cargo space in the rear, an upright easy-to-access sitting position, and no complicated sliding doors.
SimonNicols@reddit
Correct. From a manufacturing standpoint, platform sharing is necessary for keeping costs down and for variety of consumer wants / needs. Research and consumer focus groups help to frame future concepts and design and having 30 years in OEM related positions in sales, marketing and corporate brand will allow you to realize that these commodities need to be sold for a profit. There are so many “car guys” at OEMs that want to build their dream cars, but the bean counter / accountants want/need to maintain profitability for the company. SUV and crossovers will continue to evolve as consumer needs change and costs / content continue to be shared amongst platform.
Old_Sign3705@reddit
They're pretty awful. Wagons haul more and get better mileage and handle better. But we keep on pretending that AWD and higher seating position justify any compromise.
Usernamerequired_92@reddit
Do they, though? Almost every instance of a wagon having more space is because a midsized wagon is being compared to a compact crossover. Like in the example provided
Old_Sign3705@reddit
Yes, if you compare hatchbacks/wagons to CUVs of similar footprint, you'll see CUVs have less cargo volume. Look at Honda Fit vs HR-V, or VW Sportwagen vs any midsize SUV. We've forgotten how much room wagons had because we haven't had them for a long time. AWD components intrude into the floor and raising the seating platform also chokes overall space.
Usernamerequired_92@reddit
A Honda HRV has more cargo space than a Honda Fit though. And not sure what midsized CUVs you think have less space than a Sportsagen but a Honda CRV is a compact CUV and it has more cargo space
Old_Sign3705@reddit
The Fit is significantly shorter and narrower than the HRV, with almost the same cargo volume. It has much more cargo volume to footprint.
Sportwagen is much closer than I realized. Similar cargo volume to Tiguan and smaller than CRV, although it's also a bit smaller in footprint.
SimonNicols@reddit
The 1st gen Fit is based on a small car platform that was shared with Japan and EUR. Then the 2nd gen Fit sold in the US. was made in Mexico - shared and the 1st gen HRV was made there and sold in US. Fit is no longer made and now HRV has shifted to the larger CIVIC platform, so it’s much larger than 1st gen HRV and Fit.
Usernamerequired_92@reddit
The Alltrack version also has exactly the same space but gives you AWD and extra clearance so it's not like you have to compromise space for those things. It's that a lot of CUVs compromise space for styling, thsts also true for wagons amd hatchbacks too though. Not all though. There are definitely somw CUVs that give you more space.
nothingbettertodo315@reddit
For me, I switched from a wagon to a crossover because my wagon didn’t have enough ground clearance for the snowy area I live in. The extra 3” makes a big difference.
I did enjoy driving the wagon more, and I agree that it was a better hauler.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I like my legs stretched out in front of me like in a Lazyboy recliner. I don't get how kitchen chair seating is "more comfortable."
Toads_Mania@reddit
You are correct. Everything you say is right. It’s the rest of the world that is crazy.
They do everything worse than a wagon would. And they are incapable of doing any truck things.
I tried to educate others for awhile. Now when people ask I just say Rav4 and then die a little inside.
SuperDabMan@reddit
I mean, they are just wagons on stilts. Lower an SQ5 and you suddenly have a really damn sick wagon.
https://i.imgur.com/ptW9xn1.jpeg
A lot of people like the height and visibility in them, though, as well as easier to get into/out of, and that makes it more versatile for families.
Toads_Mania@reddit
Yeah, you could lower it to a wagon and it would handle better and get better fuel economy. You could also likely fit it with less expensive (new and to repair) suspension and tires. The SQ5 would be better as a wagon in every way than it is now.
I get liking the height and visibility. But we got into an arms race. Someone went out and bought a taller car and got more visibility. Then everyone bought one. At CUV height you’re just riding around at the same height as everyone else. The net benefit sort of zeroed out had they just not caught on at all.
They are easier to get in and out of for families. But you know what is even easier for families? Minivans. A minivan beats a CUV in every way for a family and we already had those. But a minivan is lame and a CUV is cool. Which I find mega weird because there is nothing cool about a Rav4. Or a CRV. Or whatever Kia calls theirs.
People are going to get what they like. More power to them. Follow your bliss. But that’s why CUVs bother me conceptually. I have a truck. I may buy a full size SUV one day. Because they do things cars and wagons and minivans can’t. But the CUV is a pass.
SuperDabMan@reddit
Oh, I generally agree with you. I grew up in the great minivan era of the 90s. I think once you got soccer moms in their Yukons and Escalades it became a cultural thing, like you say, being higher up and "king of the road" that only trucks had. Then car companies made them smaller and smaller until they just added tall suspension on their wagons. My in-laws have a Subaru Crosstrek and I hate its guts, but WRXs are cool and those are essentially the same car.
That said, my wife and I just got a Q5 (both had sedans forever) and... it's nice. I don't mind the drawbacks. But I also prefer ripping around in my 335.
AbruptMango@reddit
I had a wagon and my wife had an Xterra. Hers could tow more than mine, and that's about it.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Well, people are entitled to their opinion too.
I just did that in another post. 😶
Usernamerequired_92@reddit
The Mazda CX-5 is really short, though. That's why it has less space. It's over 3 inches shorter than the Mazda 3 sedan. It also has the same turbocharged engine you got in the same era Mazda 6. And it's currently more powerful than any version of the Toyota Camry or Honda Accord.
But the reason you hate Crossovers is because society has sort of taught you to because they are SUVs. And the narrative has pretty much been that SUV are pointless, stupid, wasteful, slow, dangerous vehicles that can't brake well or go around a corner without flipping at the slightest provocation, driven by terrible selfish people and you should buy anything but an SUV. And regardless of how true or outdated those ideas are, people still think them that way.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I feel like you just read my inner soul... or whatever the most inner thought thinking part of me is.
I never really liked SUVs that much except for 4-wheeling. The new Ford Bronco looks like a blast to own and drive. But yes, it seems quite overkill for a daily driver. The Ford Bronco Sport looks like an abomination of a sedan they decided to try to reshape into an SUV. But now that you pointed that out I guess it doesn't look so bad if you take away that kind of bias.
Upset-Masterpiece218@reddit
If more crossovers were small SUVs (body on frame/v6) and not bloated sedans (unibody/4 banger) they'd be A LOT cooler imo
I know there's options out there but I wish there were more options like that
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I love the Suzuki Samarai and Geo Tracker. If they sold something like those today I would be all over them.
Zealousideal_Sir_264@reddit
They are for people that only want one car. I'd recommend a late 90s legacy wagon, it will do everything that does but better, but some people have to have a new vehicle, and those click all of the boxes.
Personally, I prefer to have a couple 80s japanese shitboxes as drivers and projects, and a clapped out truck I use once a month for truck stuff.
Dinglebutterball@reddit
Modern day station wagons… except somehow, despite all odds, station wagons looked better.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Maybe that's why I don't like crossovers. They look like blobs.
SyntheticOne@reddit
Yes, you are batshit crazy.
Please see a therapist at the earliest possible moment (before it is too late).
- Reddit Medical Guessing-in-the-Dark Academy
Concrete_Grapes@reddit
They replaced the non-extended caravan/Voyager minivan with them. The old (83-90's) s-10 blazer, olds bravada, etc, were pretty much everything crossovers are. Not a truck, not a car, not a wagon, not a van (well, caravan was).
But no one wants to admit a minivan would be better than a crossover, because no one wants the stigma of driving a minivan. They're just minivans without sliders. The fold flat seats are creating the same flat storage a van had if you removed the seats. I have a 91 minivan, it's almost exactly the same size as most crossovers. It's even shorter than some of them, height wise.
They're minivans for people who don't want minivans. Same thing with why all the trucks are 4 doors now by default, and 80 percent will never tow, or, haul more than 300lbs in the bed. Big minivans.
ironicoutlook@reddit
I absolutely love Wagons. However I have Multiple Sclerosis so getting out of a car is difficult. Crossovers give me easy ingress and egress and maintain that cargo space.
Autoscope_SOS@reddit
Nah, you’re not crazy crossovers just aren’t for everyone, and it’s totally valid to feel that way. I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference and what you value in a car. Like you said, they’re kind of a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none situation, which can feel unsatisfying if you’re into more specialized vehicles (like wagons or sports cars).
I will say, though, the popularity of crossovers might just come down to practicality for the average driver easier entry/exit, a higher seating position for visibility, and the *perception* of being more rugged (even if they’re not). But I totally get why the Mazda 6 Wagon vs. CX-5 thing stings it’s frustrating when a car you love gets axed for something less efficient or fun.
SludgegunkGelatin@reddit
Theyre easy to live with, and EPA regs are forcing manufacturers to rethink their product planning and design.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
They're the streaming services of vehicles - good enough for most who have no idea what they're missing because they've traded convenience for the generic middle.
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
Most of the car enthusiast community is rife with mental illness. You don't like them because they're different and you can't acclimate.
In reality, they're superior to sedans, wagons, and especially body on frame SUVs.
Blasphemy, you'll say, but is it? Sedans suck and you know they do, and thats why most of you incessantly pine for wagons.
They're better than wagons because they sit up higher. If you are old, have a bad back or a weak core, then the raised height will make loading and unloading of cargo much much easier.
And they're better than body on frame SUVs because there's nothing worse than seeing something super capable being underutilized. You don't need a Land Cruiser or Suburban to take your kids to school. You're not overlanding through the desert. You're commuting.
I know some of you will downvote me and go on and on about road feel and handling, etc, but I'm here to tell you that very few people care. In the US, at least, we have a car centric infrastructure, and you will need to drive EVERYWHERE. That makes it less of a privilege and more of a burden. So people go with the best option in appliance, and that means a crossover.
They're great, too. The Toyota Rav4 overtook the Camry as their best seller here in the States, and I can easily understand why. Phenomenal gas mileage, average Toyota handling, and best of all! The ability for some normal person to not pull up too far on the curb and rip their bumper off! What a time to be alive!
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I upvoted you even though I'm not seeing things the way you do. Still, you have an honest opinion.
Unlucky_Reception_30@reddit
What aren't you seeing? Are you really holding out hope that people care about handling and that maybe everyone will want rwd german wagons? Or that everyone secretly has initial D fantasies?
AwarenessGreat282@reddit
The biggest draw to them? The fact that you don't have to climb down into them nor climb up out of them. Most are just at the right height you slide in and slide out. Then the basics: They take passengers like a sedan but take bigger cargo. They are easier to drive and park than a Tahoe or a p/u. Even easier than a minivan. They just do everything without being the best at anything. And honestly, about the only thing a sedan excels at anymore is price.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Yeah, the climbing in and out makes sense. They sound like a better car for short distances where you get in and out more often. The taller seating is less appealing to me for road trips as I want a recliner feel to my seating.
Sedans aren't the only alternative. Station wagons also have bigger cargo areas.
Also there are other advantages to sedans and similar vehicles. Sedans and wagons also have a lower center of gravity which helps a lot of things. The compartmentalized trunk in a sedan is also safer as it keeps contents from becoming projectiles inside the cab during an accident. (I actually knew a lady who died from stuff hitting her in the head that bounced out of the cargo area when she slid off the road). As an amateur radio operator, a sedan is also the perfect radio vehicle as the trunk can serve as a dedicated VHF/UHF ground plane while having an HF antenna on it's own ground plane on the roof.
AbruptMango@reddit
Crossovers try to be everything and end up being nothing.
They do what people really want SUVs to do: They are commutermobiles that look more like trucks than cars.
But they're not cars. Their size, aero drag and powertrains take away the good parts of cars without adding any passenger or cargo space. But they provide the impression of more, and that's what buyers are looking for.
withsexyresults@reddit
Much easier to get kids in and out especially when they’re in car seats. You don’t have to bend your back as much
scottwax@reddit
Much prefer sedans or coupes. The only advantage they seem to have to me is when trucks park on both sides of me (no matter how far out I park) I'd be able to see better backing up.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Ah! You made me think of one other thing. We have lots of stop signs here and the city decided it was a good idea to put right turn lanes at all of them. Now when I pull up in my sedan, if someone is stopped at the stop sign with me turning in another direction then I can't see, I have to wait until they pull out before I can pull out because everyone has a taller vehicle than I.
But I guess that only makes me hate crossovers even more instead of wanting to get one. I guess I'm weird, or just old.
scottwax@reddit
Personally I don't like having to slow down for on and off ramps so I'll pass on vehicles that sit higher!
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
I've always dreamed of getting pneumatic or hydraulic suspension. That way I can stay as low as possible most of the time, then raise up if there's a big dip or speed bump or deep snow. Or raise up if I'm picking up a friend with bad knees.
RumIsTheMindKiller@reddit
Thought I was still on R/basketball
AlaskaGreenTDI@reddit
They’re convinced that sitting up higher is making them safer and more badass.
Honey_Overall@reddit
I feel the exact same way. Personally I love sedans, and I've got an outback station wagon for when I need the cargo space. Crossovers just don't do anything for me.
Sands43@reddit
IMHO, the funny thing is that they are getting shorter. My V90 is only a couple inches shorter than many of them.
Then you have clown cars like the Buick Encore. It's like a scaled up smart car. Way out of proportion.
twosuperior@reddit
As someone who owns two hyundai konas I half agree with you. Where I live in Canada I wanted an affordable option for awd as I was getting stuck in my civic even with good winter tires. The imprezza was the only sedan option at the time that was affordable and it still has the ground clearance issue. My wife is small and wanted to sit up higher but she is also nervous driving larger vehicles so getting something like a rav or crv wasn't an option. I drove a genesis coupe for three years all year round with no issues but as soon as I moved out of the city I needed the ground clearance. In terms of size yeah I miss having a real trunk in a sedan but honestly it comes up very rarely. I think the compact crossover is the best option for most people these days but I don't think anything bigger is necessary until you start having more then one child. I hate that the rav size segment is as popular as it is because they are just big enough to make people over confident on the roads.
Radioaficionado_85@reddit (OP)
Thanks! I think overconfidence is also a problem these days. But yes, ground clearance can help. I do wish there were more sedans with greater ground clearance without making the interior taller.
HotmailsInYourArea@reddit
Jack of all trades. I didn’t like the concept of them either, until i owned a Lincoln MKX. Kind of a right-sized vehicle. Enough room for the dogs and cargo, all wheel drive for the snow, ground clearance for my parents very rough farm driveway, half decent mpg for what it is, certainly better than the trucks ive owned. Lots of space for occupants. Higher seating position, which helps my disabled husband enter and exit. Helped that it was a top-of-the-line model, of course, but this and trucks are what get heavy investment now, so they’re often well-designed.