Common SHTF misconceptions
Posted by garrickbrown@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 276 comments
⚫️I need enough food to last me three meals daily forever.
Fact: your body can last a while without food, you don’t need to eat everyday. And when you do eat, it doesn’t need to be a 3 course meal. You need a source of protein, and good micronutrient foods. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3148629/
⚫️ I will heat my entire home with [input heating device].
Fact: most people should not heat their whole home in a SHTF scenario. Try to move as much needs as you can into just a couple rooms or into one big room like your living room. You’ll want to use your other rooms for storage. This is to conserve energy for heating and cooling. https://www.energy.gov/energysaver/fall-and-winter-energy-saving-tips
https://www.fema.gov/blog/low-cost-tips-heat-your-home
⚫️ I’m a hunter so my family will never starve.
Fact: most meat will spoil before you have a chance to use it all unless you can properly store it. Traditionally, communities used smoke houses and salt baths to preserve meat for long periods of time. https://nchfp.uga.edu
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7601710/
https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/survivalist/survival-skills-how-use-salt-and-smoke-cure-meat-and-fish/
⚫️ I need lots of board games and saved movies and stuff to keep me occupied.
Fact: running any kind of off grid, homestead, self-sufficient, non-dependent operation requires constant monitoring and care. If you’re not ahead, you’re behind. If you’re behind, you’re dead. Women and children not working isn’t a thing. Everyone does their part, even if that part is learning something in order to help later. Or improving on what you already have. In a SHTF scenario, the worst part are the mini calamities that follow. Your crops get destroyed, a tree falls on your house, someone steal something important or breaks something, your water reserve was tampered, etc etc. plan beforehand.
Ddurlz@reddit
I think being prepared for a long term sthf scenario is just overkill. Unless you already live somewhere that's fairly self sufficient, you're just delaying the inevitable. My goal is to be prepared enough to have whatever I need for a month or two and be fine for most major emergencies. To realistically do any better than that, I'd have to live somewhere else.
NoLongerAnon12@reddit
Well, really, we're always delaying the inevitable as we all die eventually.
CyberVVitch@reddit
Dwight Schrute vibe
Open-Attention-8286@reddit
Biggest misconception about SHTF is that the only SHTF worth talking about is the kind where civilization ends and technology becomes useless.
Those happen, but they're rare.
You'll find your time, energy, and purchases go father if you focus on the little, commonplace disasters. A power outage. A snow storm. Price increases. Job loss. Etc.
What's more, preparing for the little disasters gets you better prepared for the bigger ones than you realize. You'll get more chances to test things, develop your skills, and find the flaws in your plan. So start small, and work your way up to the big stuff.
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
I’d add the lone wolf idea is kinda dumb, in a real SHTF situation most people wouldn’t survive a protracted gunfight.
Even in a home defense type situation if the problem hasn’t been resolved within the first 5-6 shots you’re in serious trouble.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
I played paintball with my buddy and his family who are all avid hunters and they were awful. For people who spend that much time in the woods they sure didn’t look comfortable at all when the shots were coming back at them. Paintball you have 200 shots before having to reload too.
I think people have grandiose ideas about how’d they’d perform in a firefight when in reality they’d be out of breath sprinting 20 yards. Running and firing, moving positions under fire, pretty much anything except sitting in a tree stand and waiting. I played a few rounds of paintball after taking a few years off and I was gassed cardio wise just a few games in. I played D2 college sports too so I’m not unfamiliar with strenuous workouts but paintball is different. I played paintball since I was 10 years old and it was still shit your pants scary playing in “western town” or “urban city” courses. Shooting people point blank running around corners while you hear your heart beating in your ears is hard to replicate at the range
Ill-Ad2009@reddit
I've never played paintball. What makes it so scary? I figured knowing it's just a game would go a long way toward making it more fun than scary.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
It doesn’t hurt to get shot unless you take a ball to the throat, but the surprise of popping around corners and having a gunfight at 5ft away is what’s scary. Playing on a team that is losing horribly and getting overrun by 15 guys is kinda scary. My mind is always thinking “wow is these were real bullets this would be horrible.”
Ill-Ad2009@reddit
Makes sense. Thanks for elaborating on that
lonelyDonut98521@reddit
Paintball is a bad comparison because you get hit and it's at most a bruise. Real life you get hit, you're done. It's way way way scarier than paintball.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
Yes I agree and I said that multiple times. What activity is better for learning how to move in a firefight in your opinion? Paintball is better than sitting at home in your tactical gear
lonelyDonut98521@reddit
Playing "airsoft" with simunitions is probably as close as you can get.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
Airsoft is a bad comparison because you get hit and it’s at most a bruise. Real life you get hit you’re done. It’s way scarier than airsoft
lonelyDonut98521@reddit
Thanks for the copy paste.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
That makes sense. I’m just being a douche I’m sorry
lonelyDonut98521@reddit
I should've made my point clear, so my fault as well.
Cheers.
vinean@reddit
Oh yeah…especially those fields that are hilly.
Start here at your flag, run downhill to the center, jump over the dry creek, then run uphill to their flag and then run back down and back up.
Fuck you man. I know why this field exists. When the judges want the day to end earlier.
Hey Fred, lets take them to the west field, wink wink.
And speedball is a lot of exercise too.
“Why are you always playing back?”
“Because i’m old, my knees hurt and I can lane from this bunker without running around. Five steps and I’m in position.”
“Damn man, you were back 30 years ago”
“I was lazy then…besides now we mostly play woodsball with pumps like old guys do…I’d rather spend money on beer than paint”
SlumLordOfTheFlies@reddit
Just think of what your pants will be like when you know that everyone else is shooting real ammo. Not necessarily talking about you, but you're right that people who hunt have almost no skills for something like Hunger Games
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
cant outrun a bullet and it only takes one.
This is what makes antibiotics worth their weight in gold
Eazy12345678@reddit
it's hilarious you think the average person can hit anything in 5 to 6 shots.
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
I didn’t say anything about hitting anything.
If a person is engaged in a self defense situation, and it’s not resolved in the first 5-6 shots that person is in serious trouble.
I do think even great shooters are going to have accuracy issues under the stress of a real life or death situation.
Username89054@reddit
If you want a good idea as to how hard this would be, watch the reality TV show Alone. While they put those people in extreme environments with limited supplies, they're highly skilled. They all fail, it's just a question of if you can not fail before the other.
InconspicuousWarlord@reddit
Eh, the show is rigged against the contestants. They are artificially limited on what they can and can’t do for survival. I do agree that they are all, for the most part, knowledgeable and skilled, but their failure is a part of the show. Earlier seasons were better in my opinion. The later seasons became who can starve themselves the longest. In a true shtf situation I would bet those people would do much better than is shown in the show.
OtisPan@reddit
True enough. I mean, they are restricted to a small area, and have no firearms or real fishing gear, just to name 2 quick things. Artificially limited. Still neat & can learn some things from it. Biggest takeaway for me was how almost everybody simply can't tolerate being alone for very long.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
As someone who lives in a similar environment, what that show is missing is the exponential ecological decline that's driving the socioeconomic decline.
There are no more healthy wild spaces that provide ample calories, just species hanging on the the last corners of their niches.
The forest is emptying and so are the oceans and lakes. Soon, there wont be anything but dirt and water and a climate that wont let anything grow to maturity. I know this because I'm watching the shift up close. You don't because you live near fields that are fertilized and maintained with fossil fuels that prey animals get their food from.
All that's left in the end are the parasites and diseases that can make you their host, the odd super-predator that's survived by eating anything and everything that crosses its path (big mf'ers), and the insects cleaning up the bodies of a once stable ecosystem until they run out of carrion to feed on.
Alone is how things are now... like, freeze frame snapshot of this exact moment. One year or three or five... the longer it pushes out, the fewer calories there are. Along with the lost food comes more parasites, disease, pests - really anything that can make you the target will try to strip you down to your bones, because they're starving, too.
If you have any plan to live in the woods, try it now and realize that when things get worse, everything gets harder while you're stuck fighting off other people, some of whom will absolutely be cannibals, and little to no wildlife to survive on.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Yes I should’ve added this. “It takes a community” is for sure the name of the game. Which is why I always recommend getting well acquainted with your neighbors.
bigdumplings@reddit
I think of shtf so many wild animals will be taken so fast the populations may never recover. I also am a hunter but don’t think it will be sustainable if something truly bad happens. No one will pay attention to regulation and everyone will be trying to hunt. Probably lots of spoiled meat.
koookiekrisp@reddit
During the American Civil War the deer population across almost all areas decreased so significantly that it took the better part of a century to return to normal. That was with 1860s population density, imagine modern population density. Animals would be completely hunted out in a short amount of time, I guarantee it. There’s just not enough calories in the area to support a fraction of modern populations.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Actually the deer population had been falling steadily since around the start of the 18th Century with commercial hunting for deer hides. The population decreased from about 20 to 25 million to just 100,000 when commercial hunting was banned around the end of the 19th Century. Regulated sport hunting only after that, and current population of white tails is back up to earlier levels.
darkside501st@reddit
Unless the SHTF scenario involves a major population decrease.
-zero-below-@reddit
Pretty specific for it to have a huge human population decrease but not an equivalent animal one.
tearjerkingpornoflic@reddit
Some sort of disease that only affects humans. Think a worse covid. Not that that would topple governments. Perhaps an opportunistic country, or a country that creates the disease uses that time to start WW3.
2ball7@reddit
Same happened during the depression too.
Federal_Refrigerator@reddit
This. We’ve grown to so many through mass agriculture and without that we have to lose some people, just that simple.
Ill-Ad2009@reddit
People better get used to eating squirrel
catinthedistance@reddit
Yeah. All the stuff that the Clampetts ate (Beverly Hillbillies) and people laughed about will be back on the menu in a big way. “Varmints” that are only hunted as pests today will be integrated into the diet post-SHTF.
auntbealovesyou@reddit
Feral pigs over six months old also taste foul. It would take starvation and a case of Sriracha to choke down a pork chop.
Steelcitysuccubus@reddit
Do they taste gamey?
auntbealovesyou@reddit
Worse than gamey. I enjoy a gamey funk, like in venison. The adults taste musky...like licking a sweaty guy in the seventies.
professorlust@reddit
That’s because hogs are despite being non-predatory, are also legitimately omnivores, and will eat anything when pressed including dead/decaying animal flesh.
Steelcitysuccubus@reddit
Oof naaaastay
catinthedistance@reddit
Yes. They wouldn’t be good at all, but they would be available. Hunger is the best sauce…
auntbealovesyou@reddit
well, hunger and gogijang.
auntbealovesyou@reddit
And rats and pigeons and sparrows.
Ok_Low_1287@reddit
i eat squirrel every day.
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
Hundreds of millions of people will swarm the woods and shoot anything that moves. All wild game will be gone in a few months
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
That’s true. But remember most of the Earth is uninhabited by humans. There’s still a lot out there.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
Living in one of those areas (surrounded by 1000 km2 of native forest), the forest isn't healthy enough to support any expansion of existing hunting. It's actually contracting in its capacity to provide for animals we consider "food" which is why they keep turning up in suburbia, rooting through the trash; so hungry they've lost all fear.
The instant we're running into the forest to look for our garden of eden, we'll be met with animals running the other way, followed by waves of increasingly ruthless predators who've also given up trying to survive in the wasteland of a dying ecosystem.
I see this EVERY SINGLE DAY.
EVERY tree species has an invasive pest and is in some state of decline and those same species are being overrun by vines. Last year, not a single apple tree (wild or orchard) produced any fruit without irrigation. Same with oak producing acorns; no fruit. Vines are growing incredibly well and I could tarzan my way through the forest if it weren't for all the dead or dying limbs being choked out, which means the primary source of food for prey animals is missing. Hunters are still harvesting their share of deer but they've been living off corn fields for decades now.
Run wherever you want but from first hand experience, expecting the once bountiful woods to provide is just feeding yourself to the strongest predator in the area while continuing to starve.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I also have lived out in the middle of nowhere. Dense Canadian forests, tons there. So much is uninhabited. Tons of strawberry bushes, ginger root, huckleberries, and wildlife. Just spent a day camping at a lake north of my house, saw a beautiful moose, and a cougar pranced its through our campsite. This was in the middle of winter.
Thought_Addendum@reddit
You have ginger root in Canada? How far north, thought ginger was purely a warm climate plant.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
No, I’ve found it off the trail plenty of times.
Thought_Addendum@reddit
Fascinating. I had no idea!
bandlizard@reddit
You can’t eat dirt
https://xkcd.com/1338/
By weight, almost all mammals are livestock, humans, or pets.
Wild animals are a rounding error.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
It depends on the situation. Nice comic 👍🏼
dandroid_design@reddit
And also, most people aren't prepared to survive or have the skills to hunt. 90% of the people in Metropolitan areas aren't equipped to survive more than a couple weeks after a collapse type SHTF scenario. Personally, I think animals will be okay. Desperate people coming for what you have may be an issue though.
Mahajangasuchus@reddit
Humans already wiped out almost all large animals on every continent except Africa, and that was when the world population was just a few million and we only had sticks and stones. Even a small fraction of the current global population, which modern firearms, would obliterate pretty much all vertebrate life. Even today, wild mammals are still only 4% of global mammals biomass.
dandroid_design@reddit
This isn't "exactly" true, though. Some were killed due to their threat, not for their meat. The largest we're killed by climate change or overspecialized evolution. And "sticks and stones" is a major exaggeration as well. People had expansive hunting, migratory, and habit knowledge from an abundance of experience.
bandlizard@reddit
It’s worse than he describes.
https://xkcd.com/1338/
add up all wild mammals, elephants, deer, mice, and it’s only a few pounds per person.
Mahajangasuchus@reddit
Large predators like the tremarctines and machairodontines probably were hunted by humans to some extent, but the largest cause of their extinction was almost certainly simply that humans killed most of their prey species.
And no, the largest were not killed by climate change or overspecialization. Climate change was likely a factor, but not the main one. In the last few million years earth has gone through over a dozen major glaciation cycles, and megafauna diversity made it through fine every time. Only once humans showed up did they get wiped out. And while specialization can make a species more vulnerable to extinction, it’s not really why the megafauna went extinct. Mammoths and mastodons for example had highly variable diets depending on location and were diverse in their species, yet all were wiped out.
The sticks and stones things is my point, even with primitive technology, human intellect and cooperation were enough to wipe out all these species. That disparity would be even greater with modern technology.
dandroid_design@reddit
People can barely take their eyes off their phones. Most young people can't figure out a manual transmission. Cooperation? Don't make me laugh. You have way more faith in modern man than I do, I'll give you that.
Azmasaur@reddit
In times of crisis logistics tend to consolidate in urban hubs, and be abandoned further out. People in urban areas may have semi-functional logistics while you have nothing.
The flip side of this is that city governments historically have wielded resources as a weapon to control their populations. Scarcity (think: modern sieges) doesn’t collapse power, it makes it tyrannical.
In low level SHTF rural areas tend to do well due to isolation, but in protracted SHTF that isolation can be turned against you. See: rampant farm murders in South Africa, and other historical cases of rural areas being targeted by organized crime. Maybe you can fight off a druggie home invader or 2, but what about a dozen with weapons, signal jammers, etc?
In my estimation some of the best areas could prove to be the small cities which dot much of the interior of the country. Large enough for safety, but without the potentially hostile political machines that exist in larger urban areas.
TeetheCat@reddit
These were my thoughts exactly. The majority of the population won't survive. Regardless of what they think. Someone prepared also has to get through this time avoiding the people while they become desperate to do anything to obtain food. Staying hidden until the population is naturally reduced through inability to survive on their own will be key for everyone in my opinion.
Kerensky97@reddit
Plus people don't realize how much wildlife is managed and boosted by the government. Once the government fails that lake next to your bugwput cabin is going to quickly be fish free without the monthly fish stocking they do.
And big game will be wiped out pretty quick. Native populations lived off huge bison for their meat and the US bison population is roughly 2-3% the size of what it was pre colonization. But the human population on the continent is much higher than it was back then.
ToughPillToSwallow@reddit
Saltwater fishing is much more reliable in that way.
Chief7064@reddit
The deer population will be wiped out rather quicky. Any idiot with a spotlight and a rifle could lay waste to an areas deer population in a night or two.
Able-Breadfruit-2808@reddit
Thank you for pointing this out. Everyone says they are just going to "drive to the mountains". Even if you somehow make it passed the blocked roads, you have now arrived in a difficult terrain, often severely cold, likely with unreliable/seasonal water supply, full of people hunting and foraging for food, people that are getting more hungry every day, know the land better than you, are likely armed, and definitely scared. Not to mention all the people that don't know what they are doing, starting wildfires, and with nobody to put them out or even warn you that they are coming.
rfmjbs@reddit
Bugging in is definitely preferred to these mysterious mountains. Decisions decisions. Indoors in a 2 car garage and out of sight you can probably manage raising a supplemental amount of Crickets, Bunnies, or Chickens, and if you're particularly dedicated, ducks - (groups of angry ducks will not shut up for hours) And add a tilapia tank or 3 for waste disposal.
But dear heavens the smell you would have to deal with, and the noise would be difficult to mask.
Salted meat stores take a LOT of salt, but a smokehouse is impossible to hide.
I haven't read up on breeding grasshoppers, but that seems like asking to have 2 escape and eat your home garden... Bunnies sound like crying infants, roosters are like sulky teens, crickets in a group are louder than ducks, but crickets do take time off.
Remaining quietly in your own home and raising live animals seems like a bigger challenge than buying another 50 lb bag of beans rice and multivitamins (building up for a 4 year period of prepping) every few months. Boring but less noticeable and quieter.
Able-Breadfruit-2808@reddit
I totally agree, rice, beans, some flour, oils and canned stuff can go a very long way. I bet it ends up being WAY cheaper to do that, as opposed to raising animals in large numbers in a confined space.
My plan, which i am working towards slowly, but can and will accelerate if it looks like I don't have the time, is instead of hunkering down, or trying to make the mad dash to the mountains/woods, I hope to simply not be there. I am working toward moving onto a sailboat and living in places that are unlikely targets away from population centers. GPS, radar, watermaker, wind generator, solar, and batteries, all on a mobile, wind powered shelter. In preparation for this, I started taking sailing leasons, quit my job to attend a marine mechanical school for a year, plan to get a year or two of experience, buy the sailboat and outfit it, hopefully by the end of 2027 I will be able to leave at short notice. Though, if things remain calm/cool down globally, I wouldn't mind taking a bit more time, but I am not counting on it.
CBLA1785@reddit
I've often thought about this from the view of someone that lives in an industrial fishing area. Supposing there was fuel rationing, the fishing boats here could easily supply a steady flow of food to the 100000 people that live in my remote-ish area. But the ability to keep it fresh for more then a few weeks would be another hurdle. Obviously, it depends on the kind of grid down/supply chain issue were thinking of.
No_Character_5315@reddit
Fish would be useless more than a few miles from the coast unless your able to can it or jar you'd only need enough fish to supply people in about a 10 mile inland radius. In a no fuel scenario.
HamWatcher@reddit
Fish was the primary protein for most of the Roman Empire's citizenry for a significant part of its history.
No_Character_5315@reddit
I believe they salted it as did much of world during that time so it is possible but probably take decades to get the infrastructure back up and running if it is a movie apocalypse scenario where a government and trade are back in place.
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
I think this would be true in metro areas, in a real SHTF event where’s there’s no power or communication people would probably be hungry enough to start killing each other over food after a few weeks, but it would probably balance out after the first few rounds of people dying off.
CaptainKurticus@reddit
There's an old picture of people parts at a butcher.
TheUpdootist@reddit
Yeah without any context im going to call bullshit on this picture. There are too many reasons why this picture would never happen or happen for reasons that aren't what you're saying that I need the details before believing you.
Until_Megiddo@reddit
It’s a pic taken during the famine in 1920s Russia. Cannibalism was relatively widespread.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_famine_of_1921–1922
joka2696@reddit
Thanks for the nightmares.
BootsAndBeards@reddit
It would be true in all areas, maybe excluding deserts and the arctic. Native Americans had a population about 1 per 100 what the US has today for an idea of how many people a mix of hunting and light farming can support. Even 'empty' rural areas would be cleared out of most accessible wild game in a few months.
Azmasaur@reddit
It was possibly substantially less than that. I’ve seen estimates ranging from 500,000-2m. A middle of the road estimate is 2m people in all of North America.
This is somewhere in the ballpark of 1 per 500
No_Character_5315@reddit
Dogs and cats would be wiped out in some kind movie end of world scenario as well as anything in or close to a city
thumos_et_logos@reddit
Selco talks about this in some of his books. He address what he calls the misconception that dogs will protect you, he says really they’ll probably just get killed and eaten. Or you’ll kill and eat yours. But, also that they can be good to keep watch and alert you that you may need to be ready for a confrontation, even if they aren’t very useful in one. Not with firearms in existence anyway. I think he mentioned knowing an old man who took care of his deceased friends dog all the way through the war
No_Character_5315@reddit
Probably depends where you live anywhere urban is literally a death trap no matter how much you prep just buying if your lucky months. If you have a homestead I could see dogs and cats being used as working animals to survive.
thumos_et_logos@reddit
What he said, if we are going off of that, is that they become a target for hungry people who will just shoot them like a deer. And if it’s a home invasion then again, it’s not bulletproof
Bushid0C0wb0y81@reddit
I saw a report once in a documentary that said Fish and Game did a quiet study and determined in a real collapse scenario we would trap, hunt, and fish literally everything bigger than bugs in like 18 to 24 months leading to ecological collapse.
bandlizard@reddit
Almost all mammals on earth are humans or livestock.
https://xkcd.com/1338/
Wild animals are only a few percent by weight.
CynicallyCyn@reddit
I came here to say exactly this. I remember reading an article, last year, that said the wild life population would be decimated in a matter of weeks if the entire population started using it as a food source.
premar16@reddit
This is why we as a society moved from hunter/gathers into farming and raising livestock
MadRhetorik@reddit
I would say it’s very easy for people to get drawn into the rabbit hole of SHTF and its fantasy aspect. Reality is your #1 prep should be Water. You will die of thirst long before you have to worry about just about anything else. Most Americans could go literal months of half rations and be completely fine with how much extra weight everyone is carrying around.
pipermoonshine@reddit
I’ve been trying to learn to desalinate ocean water for this very reason. It is EXTREMELY tedious.
SlumLordOfTheFlies@reddit
I live near the ocean. My dehumidifier (which could run off solar) can produce Plenty of water every day.
I also have a H2gO water purifier
pipermoonshine@reddit
Oh that’s a good idea! I hadn’t considered a dehumidifier.
TrenMiester@reddit
You're off grid for the dehumidifiers?
t4yr@reddit
Typically will require a large energy input.
baardvark@reddit
Interesting idea.
adoradear@reddit
Any links or advice on where to find info? I’ve been curious for a while but other things keep taking my research priorities
pipermoonshine@reddit
I’ve mainly watched videos on YouTube. You basically boil ocean water and collect the condensation. The most effective way I’ve found so far is making a tent with aluminum foil over the pot of boiling water. But the yield is small. I got about two tablespoons of drinkable water from four cups of ocean water.
TeetheCat@reddit
You can do this by converting air conditioners. They are pretty much the same setup if you can't find a dehumidifier.
Aggie-US@reddit
I was watching a program last week that showed the average Dutch person ate 500 to 1000 calories during WWII- and some of that was tulip bulbs. I agree with your post. half rations or quarter rations will be the key to survival.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
ok, so you have water.... screw it, you have unlimited clean water from a single source. What then? Where does the food come from? when do things get better and how?
As far as I can see, every prepper is only ever preparing for a limited period of shit meeting fan, and never embracing the likelihood that the shit gets thicker until the fan is submerged... and keeps piling more and more after that.
Unless you've figured out an actual ecosystem where the only thing you depend on is the sun, you're delaying starvation/disease/predation long enough to fight off the hungry, diseased, and preyed upon, only to end up in exactly the same boat some months down the road.
In the TV show of this problem, nature returns in the absence of humans. In the reality, the climate becomes inhospitable to both and the distance between edible calories increases until you starve or get eaten by something even more hungry than you. This is already happening in all the worlds oceans which is why we're landing record sized fish as well as seeing exceptionally small fish; the big predatory fish will eat everything smaller than them until there's very little left to eat and then strike at anything, even when they know it's a lure, and the much smaller fish are actually old fish in small bodies because they're burning too many calories to support normal growth rates.
I can't for the life of me understand what "SHTF" means to any of you who think you'll outlast the pressure that's making you resort to the extreme circumstances you describe ESPECIALLY SINCE most of you seem to be waiting until it happens to bother trying living that way to see if you can survive.
This whole community is like some high flying trapeze artist who is certain they can make it over Niagara Falls by studying trapeze manuals and buying the best cables and equipment they can find. What they've never actually practised is walking those cables, but just having them has gotta be enough... right?
Why not just get into religion and believe jesus beams down and hand picks you for a special project?
It's absurd.
tallcamt@reddit
Considering what’s happened around the world, a lot of people are seeing instability politically and preparing for what might result. That preparation is based on what they’ve seen elsewhere, could be serious, but not necessarily an apocalypse situation.
I don’t think everyone here is preparing to live off-grid indefinitely. Not sure if that is even realistic for the majority of people to prepare for while maintaining a normal life.
TeetheCat@reddit
Settle down Francis.
SlumLordOfTheFlies@reddit
Let me give you an honest answer to your question. A long-term shtf situation is not likely so I'm not going to spend an excessive amount of time or space preparing for it. My plan is to outlast 80% of people. While I'm doing that I can figure out what life after will be like. In the meantime I'm pretty well covered for any short-term problems.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
I have 50 gal of water on hand and still know it’s not enough
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
you're right, it isn't.
Good news? No amount of water is enough, only the ability to purify and recycle it indefinitely, which isn't the way this echo chamber thinks.
Keep buying stuff, though. You're creating useful caches for scavengers long after you've decided it isn't worth it.
Ok-Struggle-553@reddit
The problem with this echo chamber is people like you who think I don’t have water purification methods on hand as well as water….
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
you're right, it isn't.
Good news? No amount of water is enough, only the ability to purify and recycle it indefinitely, which isn't the way this echo chamber thinks.
Keep buying stuff, though. You're creating useful caches for scavengers long after you've decided it isn't worth it.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
you're right, it isn't.
Good news? No amount of water is enough, only the ability to purify and recycle it indefinitely, which isn't the way this echo chamber thinks.
Keep buying stuff, though. You're creating useful caches for scavengers long after you've decided it isn't worth it.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I 100% agree.
TrenMiester@reddit
I think women not working is already a thing for Americans unless they're quite well off or destitute.
Parking_Biscotti365@reddit
The only thing you need in this scenario is some wine cuz in the end, nothing really matters and the more you prep the longer the suffering lasts! May as well enjoy the fireworks while you're pleasantly dissociated from reality because it's the reality that will kill you first!
Unicorn187@reddit
Good points.
Movies and games might be important for small kids and whomever is watching them
I'd add fishing to the hunting section.
willsidney341@reddit
Given my abysmal fishing record, I’d starve to death. Looking to focus short term on greens and beans this year.
CaptainKurticus@reddit
Use a net or trap. It's much easier. In a SHTF situation, there are no laws, and anything goes when hunting and fishing.
No_Character_5315@reddit
Ocean fishing would be easier after a complete shtf scenario a less than 6 man crew fishing boat brings in millions of pounds no infrastructure boats like these won't be going out the fish populations will bounce back.
pipermoonshine@reddit
Any recommendations for a fishing pole for on shore (or pier) fishing?
ToughPillToSwallow@reddit
Just get yourself a 9’ medium rod with a spinning reel. You can use that for almost anything.
pipermoonshine@reddit
Thank you!
No_Character_5315@reddit
It's do region specific I'd search online for looking fishing clubs and ask what they use online guys into fishing love to talk equipment and lures I'm sure you'd get a ton of info
pipermoonshine@reddit
Thank you! My sister actually has a few buddies who have fishing boats. I don’t know why I didn’t think to just ask them. lol
Puzzleheaded_Town_20@reddit
Or our government gets dismantled and the Chinese fishing fleet takes advantage of our lack of enforcement to pillage the resource.
PutteringPorch@reddit
Ocean fishing would become a lot more dangerous without weather predictions, navigation aids like GPS, or the coast guard to come and get you if something goes terribly wrong.
TeetheCat@reddit
Dig holes.
irwindesigned@reddit
Ha. Me too
No_Character_5315@reddit
Wouldn't worry most commercial fisherman don't really know how to use a rod and reel unless they do it as a hobby outside of work lol.
andyfromindiana@reddit
A couple decks of cards, a set of double nine dominoes, and five dice (with a couple extra if one comes up missing), and a copy of Hoyle's rules of games can go a long way to provide diversion after a long day of survival activities.
Unicorn187@reddit
Very true. Cards should be a staple.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Yeah 👍🏼I agree!
JoyfulMuffinShop@reddit
Thanks! I was just thinking the other day that I'd like to be able to cordon off the hallway just past the bathroom, then I have a pretty small 'studio apartment' in my house and wouldn't be heating the 2 bedrooms. I've certainly done this in power outages in different houses. Wondering if there is a better solution than just hanging a blanket?
Many-Health-1673@reddit
Something to keep in mind, is beef has the most calories per pound of any meat.
Eazy12345678@reddit
they dont want you to know humans are actually the most calories per pound of any red meat.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
😳
NecessaryCounter6902@reddit
Most people forget about medication, first aid supplies, and antibiotics...you or a family member will probably die from an infection or a fever before you use your 792 day supply of freeze dried food.
mrs_adhd@reddit
"Women and children not working isn't a thing."
What the actual eff
qisfortaco@reddit
Survival is an all hands on deck thing.
mrs_adhd@reddit
Indeed, and I would not have objected to the idea being expressed that way.
zorionek0@reddit
I’m so glad you said Bon bons! I told my kids we weren’t “sitting around eating Bon-bons” and they looked at me like I had three heads. I was starting to think my parents had made that word up lol
vinean@reddit
Parlez vous francais?
Bonbon is candy in french, no? My high school french is almost half a century ago…
ToughPillToSwallow@reddit
Je ne parle pas français. You are rusty indeed
vinean@reddit
True :)
zorionek0@reddit
Ahhhh! I always thought they were a fancy candy! It was always used when we were (accurately) accused of being lazy “quit sitting around eating Bon bons and go clean your room/ mow the lawn/ fold the laundry/ etc etc”
Chief7064@reddit
I stopped by there.... they seem concerned about Canada being invaded.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
If this was connotated in a way that made you feel like forced labor should be enacted, It wasn’t meant that way. Simply stating that preconceptions that only the man of the house works should be left behind.
mrs_adhd@reddit
I'm strenuously objecting to the idea that women aren't already working and wouldn't be working in a SHTF situation. Does anyone really have the preconception that only "the man of the house" works -- either now or in a SHTF world?
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I sure hope not tbh. I know that a lot of people say, “my parents could afford a single family home on one income.” When that’s only ever happened in one tiny part of history. So anyone that might bring that mindset over to a SHTF scenario should not. I really don’t think that’s most people though.
TheRealDarthMinogue@reddit
OP, the issue is with your frankly sexist use of "women and children" as though the SHTF event is happening in 1904.
AreaCode757@reddit
STFU with that dumb shit…..this is a prepped forum not a GD PC talk forum…..I pray when SHTF DOES co e these people like above “you offended me” are eaten first
Eastern_Rope_9150@reddit
Aw, did she hurt your wittle ego by talking back? So you’re gonna fantasize about the day you don’t have to take no sass from no women-folk? Maybe you can teach them their place?
Ladies: buy guns. Men like this are the danger in an emergency situation. Far more dangerous than starvation or disease or animals.
mrs_adhd@reddit
I pray that when SHTF comes you have a strong and complementary partner by your side who values your contributions as you value theirs.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Explain how it’s sexist.
TheRealDarthMinogue@reddit
Because you've said that it's a misconception to think women won't be working in a SHTF event, which implies you think women aren't working now.
AreaCode757@reddit
NO half wit…I know many in the community that have FEMALE spouses and children who seem to think WHEN it happens they will simply sit back and reap the rewards….
His point was …..NO ONE gets to sit….as the poet coolio said “if you don’t work then you don’t eat”
Only hard working fuckers can ride with me
mrs_adhd@reddit
Making sure your partner is a like-minded person who shares your work ethic and values is perhaps the most fundamental prep.
TheRealDarthMinogue@reddit
I'm not a halfwit. I get the point. My first comment was in response to the OP not understanding why the other commenter had a beef with the post. Of course everyone has to work, that's the point. And if you know anyone who thinks they won't have to work, well, they sound pretty dumb, regardless of gender.
AreaCode757@reddit
oh I know some and it’s infuriating which is why I responded so harshly….too many Americans think and fantasize that a SHTF event or a “civil war” would end each night with a hot dinner/beer and their favorite TV program…..
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Where did I say that?
I in fact said it’s a misconception that you need to stock pile board games and entertainment in a SHTF scenario.
And I said that it’s a fact that everyone will need to do their part, which includes women and children.
And if you need me to explain further, I emphasized that because most people already expect men to be working. That’s just the world we live in. There are double standards, you don’t have to like it, but you do have to live with it.
TheRealDarthMinogue@reddit
Maybe it's just the world YOU live in.
mrs_adhd@reddit
But in that single income one-family home, the woman was not a housecat, dozing in a sunbeam or otherwise "doing nothing." And much of the work traditionally performed by women inside the home is applicable to a bug-in type situation (even more, perhaps, than the work "the man" is doing outside the home, if he's a middle manager, for example.)
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Idk why you put “doing nothing” in quotes. I never said that.
But I agree women most definitely were not doing nothing. And being a mother is a harder job than many out there.
mrs_adhd@reddit
Oop, I meant "not working." My (honest) apologies.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Oh gotcha. No worries. “Not working” I meant that in the traditional sense. As in, ‘leave to go to your job’ style. As if staying home wasn’t a job. It’s the 1950s nuclear family mentality that has somehow made an impression on the following generations. Not to mention the awful alcoholism and domestic violence that took place at that time. When the fact is that throughout history women would work the fields just like men.
General_NakedButt@reddit
I take it you aren’t from the US?
mrs_adhd@reddit
I am in the US. I just can't believe that this attitude persists.
Eastern_Rope_9150@reddit
Who thinks that??
I think it’s very rare that anyone thinks it’s ok for an adult to just sit around doing nothing. Even if a woman doesn’t work, she usually handles home and childcare. Even if she’s just a trophy wife there are hours of body and looks maintenance and usually social obligations. In what world has anyone ever expected a woman to do nothing all day?
vinean@reddit
Having some treats available is probably a good prep thing…kinda like board games.
premar16@reddit
I am wondering if OP is a woman or just lurking here to tell us what they think
SameNefariousness151@reddit
As a woman, it's not unreasonable to think there are some men that could stand to hear that everyone needs to help. Everyone should have a role if there is an emergency. Perhaps OPs phrasing wasn't great but cut them some slack. Once upon a time my husband thought in an emergency (yes, tested, not hypothetical and 20 years ago) that he needed to take care of everything and I should just sit back and stay safe. He didn't care for my pushback with that line of thinking. That was a huge fight that we came out better from on the backside when he understood I had value to contribute to the situation. All of my family members have their roles/tasks in an emergency as they should.
mrs_adhd@reddit
I didn't consider it from the point of view of a protective man feeling like he must do everything. Thank you for that perspective.
qisfortaco@reddit
Survival is an all hands on deck thing.
OT_Militia@reddit
You forgot...
Shotguns are the best home defense option.
Eazy12345678@reddit
ar15 is best home defense option
shotguns are what old geezers think are the best option. its 2025 old man.
ToughPillToSwallow@reddit
I’d actually lean towards a handgun for any kind of home invasion scenario.
hoardac@reddit
Short shotguns are even better.
Eazy12345678@reddit
not true at all.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I think it also depends on the terrain around your house.
Bassman602@reddit
I was talking with a buddy today, I told him truthfully “I’ll go straight to cannibal within two weeks. I ain’t shy.”
Calm-Emphasis-8590@reddit
Mentally I could ride things to the very end before checking myself out.
Cannibalism is my end point.
Bassman602@reddit
When the farm and wild animals are gone, then the birds, when all the grass is gone from grass pancakes, and, the bark has been eaten then the leaves, some will turn to stone from eating mud. You should read “a red famine” by Anne applebaum A true account of what Stalin did to Ukraine, what mao did to the countryside peasants in China and, what they did to each other. You probably won’t believe me when I say mothers will throw your babies on a fire to feed their own. That book has historic facts. I’ve seen modern 3rd world hunger and it pisses me off we just cut off aid. Eating each other is next for those that stand in line for USA aid.
Stock-Vacation4193@reddit
The only thing I'd add on food. This is heavily dependent on your level of activity. Hiding in a hole burns alot less calories than digging one.
Austechprep@reddit
If your plan involves being so busy you need to keep working, it's all going to fall apart once you get injured or get sick.
Planning for downtime means making sure you have a reserve of food/water and then entertainment so you don't go crazy thinking about all the things you need to do but not doing.
Just like financial prepping, you should be able to survive 3-6 months off what you have saved incase of something going wrong.
Plan for downtime, and make the downtime fun, it's gotta be one of the simplest preps as board games etc don't exactly go rotten.
RiffRaff028@reddit
Sorry, but I disagree with you on that last one. I've studied Disaster Psychology, and the mental toll a SHTF scenario would take on most people would be beyond anything they've ever experienced. Being able to relax with some simple games on occasion is a psychological necessity.
Flux_State@reddit
Making up misconceptions are we?
Eredani@reddit
Typical issue with this sub: What kind of SHTF are we talking about? Car accident? Power outage? Pandemic? Nuclear war?
Cameltitties_MD@reddit
Exactly. Full societal collapse is the least likely scenario. A protracted partial collapse of government where you continue working your normal job to scrape by is far more likely, with shortages and hyperinflation making that increasingly difficult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXnFlG_RpkI
rfmjbs@reddit
Tuesday....a really long 4-6 year Tuesday.
krodders@reddit
Zombies, in many cases
zorionek0@reddit
Jokes on them, there’s no brains to be had here!
EasyKick66@reddit
I know that joke -- "don't you hate that awkward moment when a brain-eating uh, walking dead, sees you, shuffles towards you hopefully, then gets a better look at you, shakes his head sadly, turns around, and shuffles away?"
krodders@reddit
Oops, downvotes inbound
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
What exactly are YOU prepping for then?
Eredani@reddit
My comment was just about the terminology and culture of this sub. You can ask 10 preppers here what "SHTF" means and get 11 different responses.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Actually I’m probably betting if you asked 10 preppers here what “SHTF” means you’d get roughly 50 different responses. Because I’m sure there’s some smart people here that would understand that there are a ton of different ways that SHTF. That’s the purpose of the subreddit, talk about prepping for them.
andyfromindiana@reddit
Don't forget the wild bunnies.
koookiekrisp@reddit
Adding in the “bugout into the woods and live off the land” idea is completely bonkers. Not saying the concept of bugging out to a secondary location is bad, but if you’re planning on pitching your tent in “the wilderness” (aka some ranchers land) and hunting/foraging for your food, you are making yourself vulnerable to a lot of things.
smithoski@reddit
I really enjoyed this video the other day. Not many examples of so many pragmatic ammenities being available in a town run by a very small community with one guy, Monk, at the center of it (and it’s not a cult, from what I can tell). I especially liked the parts where they go to the storage containers with all the stuff it takes to fix everything they have. The time spent talking about “enforcement” in the area for security take up more time in the video than I’d have liked, but those activities likely take up more time thank Monk would like them to, too, and that’s pre-SHTF.
tearjerkingpornoflic@reddit
Can't remember the last time I watched a full hour + long video on youtube. Usually skip through things. That Monk guy is such an interesting dude.
joka2696@reddit
Thanks for the link, well worth the time.
ponycorn_pet@reddit
people in rural China are so self-sufficient that they wouldn't even notice a SHTF apocalypse event unless it blacked out the sun or something. If you want to see some serious survival skills, just watch any youtube about old farmers in rural China that don't have any electricity and that live days away from cities with only mountain carved paths to get to their villages. Those people will outlive us all
Velveteen_Coffee@reddit
Also us in rural areas tend to have better communication with our neighbors and keep an eye out for 'strangers'. I had someone trespass onto my property a few years ago and asked my neighbor if he had witnessed anything. I had missed them (saw tire tracks) by about an hour. He didn't see them either. But by the end of the day(about five hours later) the whole town knew about it and was keeping an eye out. Small town gossip travels fast most won't even have time to pitch their bugout tents before being kicked out.
Wise-Foundation4051@reddit
Guns. Just in general. After a while, they’ll just be paperweights because most people can’t cast shells. They’re also loud af, so you give away your position. Bows, crossbows, atlatls will be more useful if shtf.
WonderingOctopus@reddit
You are being downvoted, but this absolutely is a factor.
In a survival situation(or military), a large sound highlights your position for miles. If you have to use make a loud sound for any reason, you need to move from that location afterwards immediately.
Wise-Foundation4051@reddit
Exactly! I was actually raised on military bases, we spent five yrs listening to AFN psa’s about safety and not being conspicuous.
aed38@reddit
The first point is basically BS. You need your daily calorie requirements. Without them, you’ll start to get hungry and make bad decisions.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
My first point wasn’t to starve yourself. It was just to be okay with less food. Especially if your overweight you body can last a while.
Daily caloric burn rate or BMR (basic metabolic rate) Males: 10 x weight (kg) + 6.25 x height (cm) - 5 x age (years) + 5 Females: 10 x weight + 6.25 x height - 5 x age - 161
aed38@reddit
I agree that you can “survive” a while, but if you’re in a bad state of mind you’re setting yourself up for failure to survive all of the other problems that you face. Also, you’re going to be worrying about food all the time.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alicegwalton/2019/09/16/dont-make-big-decisions-when-youre-hungry-study-finds/
“We wanted to know whether being in a state of hunger had a specific effect on how you make decisions only relating to food or if it had broader effects, and this research suggests decision-making gets more present-focused when people are hungry”
Why do that to yourself? Just save X full months of food, and don’t skip meals. There is no advantage to starving yourself. Food is relatively cheap.
Velveteen_Coffee@reddit
Adding to point one considering how fat the average American is. Angus Barbieri went 386 days fasting only consuming water, tea, and electrolytes.
Keep in mind a pound of fat is 3500 calories stored/burned. So if you are 50lbs overweight and most BMI have a range of 35-ish lbs so that's 85lbs you can lose before you are underweight not dead, just not considered 'healthy'. So if you go the "I'm going to lock myself into my bunker" method of survival and don't do much in energy output a 1700 cal/day burned isn't unreasonable for most men and 1500 cal/day for women. Men would have 175 days of stored fat and women would have 198 days or stored fat.
Eastern_Rope_9150@reddit
Please remember fat people can die of malnutrition long before they run out of fat stores and that fellow was under the constant care of doctors.
itsaride@reddit
Everyone would move to the sea eventually, you can live forever on fish and equipment required is very basic.
Eastern_Rope_9150@reddit
Hunting is not something you should rely on. Even if most people don’t have the skills to actually kill the animal, there will be more people than ever stomping through the woods and scaring everything away/ shooting anything that moves.
Lone Wolves Die. Think Dust Bowl/Great Depression, not apocalypse movies. People survive in communities, relying on each other to survive. People gain skills they need quickly and share and barter. Other people come with risks, but they’re also shared labor and safety. You are much, much safer living in a neighborhood of people in the same circumstances (they don’t need to know your basement is full of preps) than out in the mountains playing lone wolf.
BarronMind@reddit
The author of this post seems to be laboring under their own delusions about what SHFT usually means. Disasters, large and small, happen all the time. When a major power grid is down for weeks, or when a large geographic area is flooded, there is no reason why families should not be prepared to eat three full meals a day, and there's no reason why they shouldn't be prepared to heat their houses, and no one who live in a city with millions of other people thinks that deer and antelopes will suddenly begin migrating between their house and the closest 7-11, and one of the major problems to deal with when you are in all other ways prepared but are still waiting several more days for the electricity to flow again will be boredom, so movies and board games and acoustic musical instruments and art supplies and crossword books and anything else you can think of will all be extremely appreciated and useful.
The last time my water was out for a week, I didn't put the "women and children" to work plowing fields and fending off savage hoards. But I was glad to have both water and canned foods stored so that I didn't have to cook or wash dishes and I still managed to eat three meals a day without needing to set up hunting traps behind the T-Mobile store on the corner.
I think maybe someone has watched too many Mad Max movies.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
SHTF means something different to you. But what about to those who lived through the Great Depression? Or the fall of Venezuela? Or the victims of hurricane katrina? Indonesian tsunami? Rwandan genocide?
vinean@reddit
Great Depression was bad but not Mad Max. Some folks ended up in slums and there were about 2 million homeless.
Yes, a self sufficient homestead would have been useful…unless repeatedly buried in dust storms and made not self sufficient by drought…many of the homeless were what we would have considered self sufficient farmers…some were taken down by mortgages but even that was caused by drought and the inability to grow crops.
In a Venezuela hyperinflation scenario it’s better to get out. 7.7 million people left. While bad it was not TEOTWAWKI because it was localized to just Venezuela. The rest of the world still exists and didn’t end.
Financial prepping (aka gold, out of country assets denominated in something other than local currency) so you can GTFO is more useful than off grid homesteading. You cannot mitigate widespread violence and lawlessness or state seizure as a solitary family on a self sufficient homestead.
Not leaving the country before the hammer cones down (or possible shortly after if there was a window) because of whatever reason is how many families ceased to exist.
If you were a self sufficient homesteader in South Vietnam you likely would have had your homestead seized and “collectivized” if lucky and shared with other families. If unlucky you’d be labeled a capitalist and sent to a reeducation camp.
Assuming you survived all that, 50 years later Vietnam is a pretty nice place.
Probably through it would have been better for you and your kids to have left before the fall of Saigon and skipped the whole process and returned after it was safe.
Katrina also requires you to GTFO vs sheltering in place in the hardest hit impact zones. You might lose your home to the storm…in which case you are likely also screwed on your homestead…but if you didn’t then recovery mostly did not require more than a few weeks of food and water prep until utilities and infrastructure was restored.
Board games aren’t bad to have in this scenario.
How does having an off grid self-sufficient homestead mitigate a tsunami? If on the impacted shoreline your homestead is impacted like any other man made structure on the shoreline. It’ll stop being self sufficient in very short order when either obliterated or covered in debris and mud.
Again, GTFO if you survived is the better option.
None of the tourists that survived the tsunami starved to death because they didn’t have a self sufficient off-grid homestead. They flew home.
The primary SHTF scenario that a self sufficient off grid homestead potentially works well to mitigate is something like a pandemic with a higher death rate than covid (which was bad enough). GTFO of big cites, self isolate until hopefully the pandemic burns out or there is a cure.
This lets you not starve to death because you can’t safely go to the local Food Lion or Walmart or die younger from heart disease from eating nothing but #10 cans of Mountain House for a year.
But if it dives into becoming TEOTWAWKI then an individual homesteader is pretty screwed too without a functioning community to fend off bandit groups and warlords. There is a reason that rich people are building their doomsday ranches in places like New Zealand.
They hope that local society survives intact enough so that they don’t just get shot and their stuff taken away by their own security folks.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
It all just depends on the situation. Learning some basic survival stuff and energy efficiency won’t hurt you in any of those situations.
vinean@reddit
This is a reasonable statement.
However it is also highly different from “running any kind of homestead, off-grid, non dependent operation”
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
True, but if you are one of those people games probably aren’t your biggest concern
vinean@reddit
I have nothing against folks that do that and of the ones I’ve met my conclusion is if you actually are running an off-grid self dependent operation you’re not on this subreddit for advice but for the conversation.
And funny enough, they had a bunch of table top games and such although my sample size is only 3…and one I would describe as more “I’m still living in the 70’s hippy” than prepper.
Everyone else I know in person (and not over the internet) that admits to prepping are prepping for Tuesday.
If it wasn’t for here or other forums I wouldn’t have anyone else to talk to because you gotta be pretty close to want to admit you have any sort of preps beyond “yah, I own a generator…if the power goes out you can come to my house to charge up”.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
IMO prepping is 50% gear and 50% know how. If your consumables ever run out it will be good to have knowledge on how to circumnavigate that.
BarronMind@reddit
My grandfather raised several children during the Great Depression. They all ate three meals a day, the house was heated, no one dressed in camouflage to hunt down dinner, and they appreciated all of the books and toys and craft supplies that they could get their hands on. The same with the victims of Hurricane Katrina. It was mostly people waiting for things to get back to normal, and in the meantime they appreciated every bit of comfort they get get their hands on; I'm sure the ones who had prepared by stocking enough food to eat three meals a day were very happy that they had, the ones without electricity sure would have been happy to have something to do to keep from being bored, and none of them were putting children to work to keep from dying.
If you are equating the idea of SHTF with the Rwandan genocide, then you have definitely been watching too many Mad Max movies. Yes, genocides occur, but they are vastly outnumbered by SHTF situations in which all of your points are way off base (per my previous response).
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Dude, the phrase SHTF is all encompassing. It can be a car crash. It can be surviving a civil war. Nothing is out of the picture. But most people just want to learn how to be self sufficient, they don’t want to rely on anyone especially the government. Your grandfather was lucky. Many people went without food and shelter.
vinean@reddit
How is a self sufficient homestead helping out for a car crash?
How many potential SHTF scenarios are mitigated by an off grid self sufficient homestead that simply GTFO doesn’t mitigate better?
Being self sufficient is great…but it’s a fuckton easier to get and stay self sufficient if the shit isn’t hitting the fan and you can still go to the local Wally World to buy stuff.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
It all just depends on the situation.
BarronMind@reddit
Yes, during the Great Depression many people went without food and shelter. Imagine how many more might have gone without food and shelter if someone had gone around telling all of them that "it's a common misconception" that they should prepare while they can to heat their homes and have three meals worth of food per day per person and maybe stock up on some things to keep from being bored if the power goes out.
How are any of these "misconceptions"? This is a subreddit for preppers. Do you honestly think that "do not store enough food for three meals a day because no one dies from hunger" is an appropriate message here? 80% of the people in the U.S. (along with much of the rest of the world) live in cities. How many people reading this will find "running any kind of off grid, homestead, self-sufficient, non-dependent operation requires constant monitoring and care" to be helpful advice? I suggest an astronomically small minority, and people who live in extremely rural areas already know much more about what they need to sustain themselves than someone who posts such random thoughts here.
People: prep now while you can. Prep what you can reasonably afford, and use as much space to do it as you can without negatively impacting your current day-to-day life. Get your finances in order, take care of any ongoing health problems, get in better physical shape, take care of any structural issues with your home while you can afford it and the services and materials are available, and also stock food, water, medicine and hygiene supplies, building supplies, tools, clothing appropriate for the extremes in weather in your area, fuel and heating supplies, batteries and flashlights, spare parts and fluids for your vehicles, plastic sheeting and duct tape, and for goodness sake stock toys, books, musical instruments, and anything else that will help you deal with boredom. You will not be tilling the acreage between the used car lot and the shopping mall to grow crops. You will not be assigning your child who currently attends grade school to man the fortifications at 3:00 a.m. You will be grateful for everything that you were wise enough to store while you still could to last you and your family through 99.999% of whatever SHTF scenarios may come your way.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I never said they shouldn’t stock up on enough food for 3 meals per day per person? You’re insane.
My point was, if you needed to ration (which is a real life situation) you don’t need as much food as you’re taking in now (generally speaking).
You can still grow food in the cities.
Self sufficiency is still useful in the city as well. Buying a solar panel can still be cost effective living out on an apartment.
With that being said, some of your advice that you directed at “people” is valid. If I was writing a panic post, that’s probably what I would say.
But don’t be delusional and disregard perfectly good information.
BarronMind@reddit
You told a forum of preppers the idea that "I need enough food to last me three meals daily forever" is a misconception. No one living in a typical city house or apartment is growing a tiny fraction of the amount of food the average family needs to survive. Do you have any functional knowledge of the amount of land needed to grow enough calories to keep an average family alive? Or the number and types of tools? Or how they will irrigate? Or the amount of fertilizer? Or the knowledge of preparing and storing home-grown crops? They won't be mildly uncomfortable with minor bouts of hunger; they will die if they do not have sufficient stored food ready for whatever SHTF situation arrives.
Go ahead and make another post about city prepping, even though it's already been done and there is really good information on the subject readily available. Be sure to tell a couple with three kids living in an apartment in a city of 2 million people with no arable land how it's a common misconception that they should store enough food for their kids to have three meals a day. Also tell them they don't need anything to help keep the three kids from being bored when the power goes out for several weeks because that's another common misconception. Also tell them how the "women and children" will be constantly working... doing what? As you said, they will be dead if they don't constantly monitor... what exactly?
Trust me, I don't. I also don't ignore terrible posts. Prepping, now, while we still can, is vitally important. My family is alive because my predecessors didn't take bad advice from people who read a few zombie books.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I hope you’re getting the meds you need.
For others reading this thread: If you have planned for 30 days of food, where each person gets 3 full meals a day for each day, and you reduce the amount your consuming each day, you can last on your food source for twice the duration while you figure out how to get more food, government aid comes in, or you find a community that can help.
And if you do live in the city, you can still grow some food. Which will increase your rations even further.
BarronMind@reddit
Do you... do you think you just invented rationing? Read a couple of history books and you'll discover that rationing is a last ditch effort to survive, usually done by people who didn't prepare sufficiently for the situation that they found themselves in or had no input at all in the planning, like being stranded at sea in a lifeboat. Thinking it's a good idea to store enough food so that you don't have to put your children on rations is not a "common misconception."
For others reading this thread: There is so much good information on the subject available. Please don't get it from people who take notes while watching Doomsday Preppers marathons.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I was dumbing it down for you. You still don’t understand.
BarronMind@reddit
Well, congrats, you successfully dumbed down pretty much everything you've said here. I just didn't realize it was on purpose. Your "common misconceptions" are all wrong, and preppers would be well advised to consider doing the exact opposite of what you say. I can't even believe that this needs to be said, but here goes: store as much food and water as you reasonably can, be prepared to keep your home within a safe temperature zone, and have a big selection of anti-boredom items and activities available. As for the remaining "common misconception," the only people I ever heard say that they could keep themselves fed with their hunting skills were correct, and that's because there are not enough people who say it and are wrong to make it a "common" anything.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
👍🏼 good for you
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
for a guy who preaches community, you suck at building it
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
You’re definitely not my community. 😂 that is for your interest though
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
There's exactly ZERO chance of survival in any city. If growing food in a city made ANY sense or worked in ANY way, people would already be doing it.
Go build a rooftop garden to live off and report back how long you make it without supplementing calories.
Cities are the problem. They ARE collapse. They're the hubris of people who believe they can live so far from where their food grows they don't need to ever be able to see the field.
If it were possible to survive in a city off food grown inside a city, cities would have grown much larger before synthetic fertilizer and the ICE were introduced. The scale of cities is supported ENTIRELY by shipping. Shipping is supported by the availability of oil and the resources to devote to giving away food in exchange for something more valuable. After that, it's entirely reliant on a clear passage from producer to consumer, not highways blocked with cars trying to escape while they run out of fuel, which also relies on economies of scale and producers who don't recognize the insanity of feeding city-folk rather than letting them starve.
As a subsistence farmer, the person you're responding to is right. You CANNOT survive on the calories you can gather in a city.
All that said, I fully encourage you to try and prove me wrong. Live your dream and believe in yourself and keep the numbers of hungry raiders lower outside the city. I hope everyone is like you.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
They are already doing it bro. There a more and more cities that are starting to grow food. It’s actually a way to feed the homeless. https://growingtogive.org/blog-posts-page-nineteen.html#:~:text=Food%20parks%20are%20an%20innovative,idea%20of%20a%20community%20garden.
It’s not enough to survive forever. But that’s not the point that I’m making.
you want to stop feeding city people?
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
What is it with your generation assuming the worse has already happened? It's insufferable. "we went through the cold war so you can suck up this climate change bs" or whatever.
The worse is yet to come.
The great depression was a minor economic hiccup in comparison to the world your generation has engineered.
The hubris of it all... maddening.
EasyKick66@reddit
My dad lived through the Great Depression. I was thinking about him today -- thinking about how they used to make soup from ketchup. It was basically tomato soup.
If you didn't have anything other than ketchup, at least you had ketchup and you could kind of trick yourself into thinking it was a meal.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Yeah I’ve heard horror stories. Similar to how North Koreans have to resort to eating the cobs of corn.
EasyKick66@reddit
Oh, man! My dad would be the first to say that even though there were tough times, it was nothing like North Korea. North Korea sounds like hell.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Yeah, it really does. They are really going through it.
LBC1109@reddit
Unless you live hours away from civilization and are properly trained and armed - hunting is not going to sustain you.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I agree. Strictly hunting wouldn’t even sustain the Native American tribes. They foraged as well. They grew stuff too.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
... in an undisturbed wilderness that was adapted to their presence.
How much undisturbed forest can you access by vehicle? on foot?
How much of that is productive and healthy?
Is this sub full of climate change denialism or something cause I have firsthand experience with it and, unless you're hunting beatles, you're starving.
The deeper into the woods you go, the further away from artificial fertilizer you get, the more you witness the true decline of nature which you then recognize as the real driving force in our other states of decline.
We paved the garden of eden, friend. No one is hunting, fishing, or foraging their way through this.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Leave your politics out of the subreddit. ⬇️
vinean@reddit
Forest fires are not political…and they will wipe out your crops.
Whether it’s climate change or whatever its fact that we are seeing an uptick in drought, severe weather and wildfires.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
“Is this sub full of climate change denialists or something?”
Sounds political to me.
BillyDeCarlo@reddit
We already trained our bodies and metabolism over the past few years to eat a light breakfast, some nutritional snacks to bridge to one primary meal in late afternoon. Got our weight way down and energy up. We're mid 60s in age.
CFUsOrFuckOff@reddit
I eat this way because this is generally how the world provides outside of the grocery store... but I have to echo the other comment: what are you going to eat?
BillyDeCarlo@reddit
We're doing raised bed gardening and indoor hydroponic. Already rarely eat meat of any kind.
DifferenceSuper3017@reddit
May i ask what you eat exactly?
premar16@reddit
I agree with all your points but the last one. I grew up on a large farm full of dairy cows. We worked very hard but we also had downtime as well . You still need to prep for the times when you are celebrating being alive and with your family or friends
LilyHex@reddit
Board games are an excellent way to do all that too!
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I agree! There will be downtime for activities. It’s important to not over spend in this category when there’s others you might not have thought about. Also thank you! Farmers don’t get thanked enough.
nanneryeeter@reddit
Do many folks actually eat three meals?
Three proper meals was a rarity when I was working insane hours and burning massive calories.
TxDude_2022@reddit
In the South, most people eat all day long. 3 square meals and snacks all day.
TeetheCat@reddit
Canning meat maybe. Smoking will be too dangerous due to the smoke attracting attention.
juxtoppose@reddit
Good information. For reference look at British soldiers during ww2, by todays standards they would be seen as anorexic, back in the day you would have a couple of feasts a year and those feasts might be less than we eat on the daily, people use the word hungry like they have ever been hungry (apologies to anyone who has actually been hungry but if you have been hungry you know exactly what I’m talking about).
06210311200805012006@reddit
I like this last bullet point. There's a reason my great grandpappy had a tendency to sit on the porch and stare at the field when he wasn't working (which was most of the time).
Bro just wanted a time-out.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I’m assuming it was an intimidation tactic against the crops? Science proved that works.
06210311200805012006@reddit
Yes, the corn planted itself.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I knew it.
1one14@reddit
Well stocked of grid, BOL. Wife, kids, and grandkids will be playing games at the house. I expect the rest of my life will be spent in an FOB watching out for them.
Main_Science2673@reddit
I only eat one meal and a snack on a regular day. So I could survive off of the same
gilbert2gilbert@reddit
That first point is kind of stupid. Don't have enough food to eat normally because you can go hungry sometimes? I'd rather not go hungry
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
You can’t die from being hungry.
zorionek0@reddit
I’m not a doctor, but I don’t think that is correct.
GreatPlains_MD@reddit
I’m a doctor. Literally, no you can’t. When you look at the underlying cause of hunger in a SHTF scenario, yes.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
People die from malnutrition and caloric restriction. Not hunger. Hunger is just a feeling. The point he thought I was making was that you don’t need to stock pile that much food. When that point I was actually addressing was that rationing what you have instead of eating 3 meals a day everyday.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
My point wasn’t to collect more food. I never said that. The point is to ration what you have.
SeaWeedSkis@reddit
Common SHTF misconception: That your definition of SHTF is the same as someone else's definition. Until you define it, any discussion about preps needed, or not needed, is meaningless.
Beautiful-Taro-6877@reddit
If I don’t have books/ puzzles/games or something for the kids I will absolutely go crazy and this will all be for not. Lol
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Your right. The purpose of that was, if you have thing in other categories that need attention you’ll be fine without some extra games and stuff.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
I will add and amend a few.
⚫️ SHTF is a meaningful phrase.
Fact: Some people use it for the fall of western civ. Or the fall of the US. Or a hurricane. Or A war. Or a divorce. The preps for all these things are different, sometimes radically so. Never assume the term means what you think it means or that anyone else knows what you mean by it. It's a word used by fear-sellers or people who don't have the ability to plan for specific contingencies.
Note that the way OP seemed to be using SHTF, his point on hunting will be moot. If food isn't being distributed and modern agriculture isn't functioning anymore, 333 million people in the US are going to try live on arable land that will no longer support half that number. Hunters will clean out available game in a matter of months, maybe weeks. Waste isn't the point. Unavailability is.
⚫️ I need to heat my whole house.
Fact: Maybe you do. In cold climates, if your heating pipes freeze, they can burst. If and when things are running again, this means your walls get flooded and mold will form. Cleaning that up can cost a fortune and forget selling a house with black mold in the walls. How much heating you have to do depends on circumstances, but with a forced hot water system try to keep every room at 50F or higher.
⚫️ I need lots of board games and saved movies and stuff to keep me occupied.
Given what OP seems to be implying SHTF means, he's talking about the collapse of (at least) US infrastructure. By one estimate, 65-90% of the US is dead in a year if that happens. It's lack of refrigerated food, lack of medical care, epic violence over resources, hypothermia... Running a truly "self sufficient" homestead is an absurdly hard enterprise in the best of times. In a collapsed and heavily armed society it is more than a full time job; it might well be impossible. Solution: if you're seriously trying to prepare for a disaster of that size, community is everything. And you still won't have any free time.
Movies are fine for smaller SHTF.
⚫️ Stored water will get me through.
Again, using what I think OP means by SHTF, it's a generational collapse, and infrastructure to provide electricity to pump water will only exist if you can generate your own. That requires a well and beefy solar panels for most people, or access to a clean lake. Since few people in the US have that arrangement, clean water will rapidly become a critical resource and a source of violence. You can't store enough water for a generational collapse; you must have a clean source that provides your needs continually. If this is what your planning for, this should be your first priority.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
I will audit this comment.
⚫️SHTF is a meaningful phrase.
Fact: some people use it for the fall of western civilization and some people use it for a car crash. The way that OP seemed to be using SHTF makes his point about hunting important. 60 million people in the us live in rural areas. Even if only 1% of the 260 million that live in urban areas were able to catch some sort of food, that would make 2.6 million people that were able to obtain a meal. That’s not too bad.
⚫️ I need to heat my whole house.
Fact: you in fact should take precautions before removing the heat from areas of your house. But concentrating your resources to the room that you living in the most is a good idea. I do it every year, and save money.
⚫️ I need lots of board games and saved movies to keep me occupied.
Fact: in the worst case scenario you will be happy you had that deck of cards, or that game of apples to apples. (Great game btw) but IF you are running a self sufficient operation. There will be no time for it. (Notice how there are lots of ifs here)
⚫️stored water will get me through.
Based on the absolute awful experience someone would have to go through to get to this point (including any of the previous bits of advice), it’s important to know and understand go water cleaning methods. Stored water is good, but you should always try to replace any resource you use. And that doesn’t only apply to water.
koookiekrisp@reddit
Adding in the “bugout into the woods and live off the land” idea is completely bonkers. Not saying the concept of bugging out to a secondary location is bad, but if you’re planning on pitching your tent in “the wilderness” (aka some ranchers land) and hunting/foraging for your food, you are making yourself vulnerable to a lot of things.
garrickbrown@reddit (OP)
Most SHTF scenarios often don’t dissolve to people turning on themselves. Though I know it happens often. Most people will come together where the SHTF and make it work.
koookiekrisp@reddit
I’m with you on the last sentence (mostly). There’s a lot of situations where people take advantage of others and a lot where people band together. My interpretation is that people’s “Circles” get smaller and are affected by resource availability. You share resources within your Circle (whether it be family, neighbors, town, city, country, etc.) if resources become more scarce in your Circle then your Circle gets smaller. If you have a lot of resources in your circle then your circle can help other circles and then increase the size of your circle. People are complicated and we have a loooong history with tribalism, so there’s not a single predictable behavior if SHTF. But I’m willing to bet if your next door neighbor comes over and asks for a cup of sugar, your first instinct isn’t to gun him/her down.
Many-Health-1673@reddit
I'm not sure about that last sentence. I feel the opposite.
Raddish3030@reddit
There's a difference between SHTF and apocalypse.
I think I remember this sub talking about Chinese Parking lots being secure and so prepared because of the kind/type of gates and doors it has.
But man, I think I'd rather go out on my choice than trying to endure a scenario where the population density of China is squeezed into a parking structure in SHTF scenario.