Gf wants to move to Italy; “there’s no saving the U.S.A.”
Posted by Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Ever since Trump was elected in November, my girlfriend has become quite serious about the idea of moving to Italy.
For me personally, I understand, but, Italy has its own problems.
We have looked at moving abroad for college (sophomore year currently) in schools that offer relatively similar opportunities, with English courses.
I suppose I am wondering what you recommend, and if I should take another look at moving abroad.
NCGlobal626@reddit
About 8 year ago (things could have changed) I researched the University of Malta for my son. Malta is part of the EU and so you would have unrestricted travel during the time of your student visas. Schools there are taught in English, it is one of their 2 official languages. I think you may even be allowed to work a little, and non-EU tuition was reasonable. To my knowledge, all other EU universities will be taught in the official language of that nation, so your only other options would be Ireland or UK (not EU anymore.) My daughter studied at 2 different uni's in France, and everything was in French. Also note that a student visa may have very tight restrictions - upon finishing her spring semester in Montpelier, my daughter had exactly 2 days after the last day of the term, to leave the country. Hardly time to pack, return books, finish up admin paperwork, etc. God forbid if her flight had been delayed.
unseemly_turbidity@reddit
Quite a few countries offer degrees taught in English. It's super common in all the Nordics, Germany, the Netherlands and maybe more.
NCGlobal626@reddit
Thanks I didn't know that. Everything we researched for my kids was native language. It makes sense that broadening the programs to including English speakers would bring in more students and more money.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Wow, I cannot imagine. That is beyond rough. I will look into Malta
faries05@reddit
I feel like your girlfriend has zero knowledge about poitical, social, and economical climates outside the US. I also feel like there is no research done at all about moving abroad and all the requirements, restrictions, and economics behind each choice of country. You both really need to sit down and look at it hard.
My husband and I moved our family to the Netherlands mid 2023 because he was as offered a very nice position within his company. We were very fortunate with the offer and what they gave us to literally uproot our lives and start over in a foreign country. Italy is no picnic but neither is the Netherlands. If you do not have an advanced degree, and speak a second or third language that is important to their employment economy, it is exceptionally difficult to find work, which is often directly tied into housing and residence permits.
If this is something you both want for serious reasons, you both need to sit down and research all of it for any country you are considering. For example, here it is difficult to find work as a non-native when not already employed by a company here if you do not speak dutch. Cost of living in some places is relative to what you make but it is not the “norm”, so to speak which is very much like many other places but is not always the case.
One big thing to remember is relocating your life to live abroad from America is challenging emotionally and mentally. Especially if you know no one outside of your home country. Everything can feel harder, more painful and bigger than it is. She will not walk off the plane and instantly have a modeling contract with vogue right away and be surrounded by friends and family. That isn’t how it works. This isn’t Netflix.
Sorry this was long but seriously, it isn’t like moving around the US; with the US political climate, it is twice as hard too in some places. Seriously talk hard about it and get her to really look at the whole picture. I totally understand wanting to get out.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Thank you
ParticularDance496@reddit
I hope he’s not planning to live off his YT channel. They are from Fort Wayne, I can understand wanting to move. But yes why Italy? English is not well spoken, you won’t have time to apply for work visas, as you haven’t presented any unique skill set here, rent is usually higher there, along with utilities and the VAT. Unemployment is high especially in the south, below Rome. Lived there from 1996 to 2001 and 2004 to 2009, northern FVG, outside of Pordenone. Maybe look at Japan or Thailand. Rent and food is cheaper, COLA is better and the weather beats IN. However getting a job will be difficult no matter where you go, since neither of you are proficient in the language or culture. Why is it that Gen Z always wants to run away from the problems? Your interview with the Pro Lifer was at best a Jr High debate level questioning, 30 protesters? I was in Okinawa from 09 to 14, we didn’t have any less than 100,000 protesting American colonization of the island and the impact we had on the local economy. Just as many showed up to support those assigned on Okinawa. Instead of jumping ship and ruining your life and savings, learn about this administration, use your influence on the social media platforms to either go more in depth with the impacts or refute what some of his supporters are saying. Example: AP ran a story about a vet that was let go from his job, he was a guess at the joint session and he was complaining how he fought for this country only to return to the unemployment office. Neither the vet or the reporter brought up what job he did for the federal government, what is he was a mail clerk? Or ran distribution, or house cleaning? A low grade GS position? I’m retired USAF, 24yrs, E8, 100% disabled, got the “C” from a tiny fragment of shrapnel lodged near the knee and became infected and developed into a tumor, along with other ailments. I also was with the VHA, my last day was Friday, yet I’m not b!tching about it, I have a plan, and savings. I went from a local level to the national level even though I had over 6yrs and a permanent employee, who paid me had changed and that made me look like a new probation employee, so I took the deferred resignation program, as most of my colleagues were let go, I’m getting paid until September. We were all given a choice, is my point. We live in a free capitalist society no one owes us anything, we work and hustle to pay the bills. Dig a little deeper OP, learn some basics before making a decision.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
SeanBourne@reddit
Italy has a lot of issues. If she’s got the looks/build/posture to be a fashion model could work for her (but tbh by sophomore year of college it probably would have happened already), but unless you’re a crazy good soccer player, not going to be much for you in Italy.
Smart young grads of the top Italian schools look to leave the country, not stay in it.
If you’re looking to escape the US (can be done using student visas, depending on the country), you’d want to look at specific cities/markets - Singapore, maybe Frankfurt, maaaaybe London (student path is tough in London). Beyond that, only speaking English, without local citizenship, without a great economy in the city, you’d be SOL.
DatingYella@reddit
Looks really has very little to do with it. It’s more about wealth and connections. She’s moving to start in a highly competitive career in a country she has no visa or citizenship with unknown ability to fund herself? That’s just unrealistic. Plus, there’s no shortage of beautiful women in many parts of Europe. She really needs the connection part to have any chance.
If she was serious about her career, she would be moving to New York.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Thank you!
LordVesperion@reddit
Italy is an interesting destination culturally, but not economically. Very low upward mobility, low birth rates. Salaries are much lower than the US. Also quite conservative as others pointed. As for wanting to be a fashion model, there's no land with more opportunities than the USA. Has your girlfriend got any fashion gigs in the US?
Zealousideal_Rub6758@reddit
I think that’s a little stereotypical. Parts of north Italy are some one of the wealthiest in Europe, and they have a surprising amount of industries - they’re leaders in engineering in Europe, for example.
LordVesperion@reddit
You mentioned mature industries: that is exactly my point, legacy brands. These are all industries/ mbrands that were created decades ago: ferrari, prada, etc. Name a successful italian startup/brand from the last 10 years. Your argument about parts of Italy is flawed, you can take the poorest countries on this earth and you will find that they have some wealthy areas or region.
As for engineering, yeah I imagine it could be top 5 but you still have France or Germany who are probably ahead.
Btw, I love Italy but it doesn't mean I look at it with pink-colored glasss
Zealousideal_Rub6758@reddit
You mentioned Canada though as a comparison, I can’t think of a single new Canadian company either. I’m sure there are some small companies in both countries that I’ve never heard of. And I haven’t picked North Italy as a specific region - the wealth difference between the northern HALF of the country compared to the south is light and day.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
No she hasn’t
expats-ModTeam@reddit
Your post was removed because it was deemed your question was too broad. With so many countries originating from and living in, there are simply too many variables. This being said, we strongly encourage you to post again, but to add more details/relevant information that may better guide others to provide you with a more personalized or accurate response. If you feel this was an error, please send us a message and we will review again. All the best, r/expats mod team
Purple_berry_cola@reddit
Italy's still definitely following a lot of their former fascist political playbook and if either of you aren't white then expect to encounter a whole new level of racism in Italian society. Your girlfriend should also know that systemic misogyny is just as much of a problem in Italy as it is in the US.
glitterkenny@reddit
For clarity do you mean your university offers a year abroad option?
From your post I get the sense that escaping the US isn't your gf's only motivation, she wants career opportunities and an adventure.
And you're young, no kids, so why the fuck not?
This sub is understandably a bit hostile as it tends to get flooded with posts by naive, panicking Americans who've barely left their state, who also refuse to do any independent research. I don't get the sense that you're that way inclined, just trying to provide a bit of context.
I'd suggest you have an honest chat about your motivations, think about what you're trying to get TO not away from and go from there. Make a detailed plan once you know what you're both really looking for. It could be an amazing adventure but I suspect the logistics alone could be harder than you think. Good luck to you!
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
Is there reasoning behind Italy? Is she a citizen? Are you a citizen? Also, very high unemployment is normal for them unfortunately. There's better economic prospects in other parts of Europe.
Also, if your girlfriend fears what's happening in the US, how will she feel with Russia at Europe's doorstep?
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
She is not a citizen, nor is she actively taking steps to be. She wants to move to Italy to be a model.
As far as unemployment, I 100% agree. That came up when I was researching.
I don’t think she has thought through the stuff with Russia
Adventurous_night61@reddit
Do you know the effort it takes to get the Italian passport? 10 years even if you do everything right.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
What about naturalization? Is that still 10 years?
Zealousideal_Rub6758@reddit
It’s at least 5 for most European countries, but you won’t get a work visa easily at all. VERY generally speaking you have to be transferred by a US company for a specific reason, your job can’t be done by a European, you’re a recognised leader of your field, or you’re an academic.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
I see. Thank you!
Revolutionary_Dig382@reddit
I would suggest to visit some countries first for a bit before deciding
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
I think that’s a good plan!
Triseult@reddit
Ah, yes. Italy, the Utopia ruled by a *checks notes* neo-fascist xenophobic party.
DruidWonder@reddit
They're not fascists. That's misinformation.
Triseult@reddit
The party is the descendant of a fascist party (MSI), appeals to fascists and the far right on social media, has been known to express nostalgia for Mussolini and Italian fascism, are a bit too fond of the "Roman salute," and are staunchly anti-immigration and anti-LGBTQ.
Totally not fascists.
Psicopom90@reddit
um they most definitely are fascists
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
LMAO ikr. I told her geopolitics is neuanced haha
chardrizard@reddit
She needs to get off her rose-tinted tiktok algo.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
THATS WHAT IM SAYING
B3stThereEverWas@reddit
What?
I thought Italy was all Supermodels wearing Versace everywhere while eating pasta in their rustic 16th century Villa?
Spirited_Increase906@reddit
I'd do more research first.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
exclaim_bot@reddit
You're welcome!
pimpletwist@reddit
Please tell me that you both voted
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Absolutely!
ThatstheTahiCo@reddit
Do you both have EU passports? Any secondary languages?
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
My secondary language is German, which is why I thought Germany would be a good plan. Italy is where she wants to go because she wants to be a fashion model
As far as passports, we haven’t been obtained since we can’t agree on the country.
bebok77@reddit
Got your passports, visa require them or have you mistook passport for visa ?
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Oops sorry, I meant visas not passports. I have my passport.
TravelingNomader@reddit
No they're going to go escape Trump...for an ENTIRE year. You know, since they haven't researched
alittledanger@reddit
Funny country to choose if she is scared of Trump considering the political affiliation of the current Italian Prime Minister.
I think you girlfriend needs to do more research and that’s me being nice.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately yes haha
DruidWonder@reddit
Italy is not what you think it is. You guys will fight an uphill battle to stay there. Citizenship takes 10 years of residency. Marriage is less obviously. The culture is very traditional and you will be expected to conform. You may find that more conservative than the USA. The big cities are more liberal and multicultural but they are expensive. Average income in Italy currently is 20,000 Euros/year.
In terms of escaping the USA you are choosing one of the most difficult countries to get status in, if you have no prior ties.
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
Gardening_investor@reddit
Uhm did neither of you look at Italy’s current government…?
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
No I saw lmao. The rights been rising for a while but damn
leavezukoalone@reddit
I heavily considered an attempt at moving out of the US these past few months, but ultimately decided that it’s a bad idea. Finding stable work is important. It’s also difficult for many people.
But, most importantly, I’m a US-born white man. I acknowledge that I am (unfortunately), by birth, more privileged than others from different backgrounds.
The fight for democracy is hopeless if every person who has a voice leaves.
I sincerely get the concern. But don’t leave. Dig in with your community. Stand up for those who are being targeted. Protest. It doesn’t matter if you spend just five minutes of your day doing something positive; something is better than nothing. Millions of people spending just a few minutes of their time can go a long way.
Good luck!
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
Absolutely, and thats how I feel too. It is what it is. We didn’t build this dynamic, it’s just here.
abadmeow@reddit
👏🏽 👏🏽
shanonshanoff@reddit
You’ll try to escape American problems just to encounter Italian ones. I wouldn’t recommend moving somewhere in order to avoid problems, move because you love the culture or the language. If the goal is to find some sort of political and economic safe haven, you’re gonna be really disappointed. But I can still recommend moving abroad, just know it’s not a solution to problems in the US.
snokegsxr@reddit
Many people successfully move away from their home country because of political or economic problems 🤔
shanonshanoff@reddit
That’s correct
Fun-Holiday-3517@reddit (OP)
I don’t view it a solution at all. I have honestly just accepted “it is what it is” mentality. Where would you recommend? I speak German and some French.