Do you bug every heading/altitude change on an Instrument Approach?
Posted by ShadowSinger2121@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 75 comments
Or do you only bug the Final Approach Course, and DA/MDA minimums?
I'm an instrument student working on my flow for approaches. It seems like in the interest of "staying ahead of the plane" and minimizing unnecessary work, it would be better to just bug the Final Approach Course, and the minimums. But maybe a DPE wants to see me bug headings/altitude for every portion of an approach?
What does the internet say?
TxAggieMike@reddit
More importantly, what is your CFII saying? They should be your primary resource, not the internet.
ʕ·͡ᴥ·ʔ ʕ·͡ᴥ·ʔ ʕ·͡ᴥ·ʔ
You should be bugging the heading each time. How else are you going to keep track of a new heading assignment, such as when ATC is vectoring you?
And your CFII Should have taught you the 5 T's from the very beginning....
contrail_25@reddit
Don’t forget Track.
6Ts
Rexrollo150@reddit
Give me some more context for this 6th T, I’d love to be sold on an extra T!
bfishin2day@reddit
If you're flying "the Stack" over the TFD VOR in the phoenix az area.... The 7th "T" stands for "Tremble". cuz there's way too many good damn planes in "the stack" all separated by just 500'.... you hope. ;-/
PutOptions@reddit
"Approach cancel IFR for N123Ab I am getting TF outta here." I mean it is Phoenix, right?
In the NE, that shit is an immediate divert. Even VFR... a big nope.
freeze_out@reddit
It seems like there's tons of variation. Navy flight school teaches them as Time, Turn, Time, Transition, Twist, Talk.
picsorshins420@reddit
Do you have any examples of using time twice in the civilian world? I never found a use for it.
freeze_out@reddit
During holding, first time could be to note the inbound time (timer) to make adjustments on the outbound leg and/or note the time (clock) in relation to EFC - but the standard that they taught was to confirm EFC with ATC when it was within five minutes, but as far as I know that's not required anywhere else. Second time was to punch the timer on the outbound leg.
NTXRockr@reddit
As a Navy guy I used 6T’s on a civilian IR checkride, the examiner had never heard of it and actually liked it better than the civilian mnemonic
freeze_out@reddit
I've always found it to be super methodical.
ShittyLanding@reddit
If memory serves, in UPT it was:
Time
Turn
Throttles
Twist
Track
Talk
ShadowSinger2121@reddit (OP)
Track meaning, note the winds and adjust?
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
An ongoing T of continue to observe your nav aid and your position and adjust for discrepancies. Those discrepancies are typically from wind, but could be from pilot error of setting a heading wrong, or flying off from the heading they selected.
ShadowSinger2121@reddit (OP)
Thanks
22Planeguy@reddit
I've noticed the 6th T for Track is a mil technique, but everyone I've mentioned it to thinks it's a good addition. You'll eventually figure out that you didn't wind kill it, but it makes it that much smoother if you're already thinking about it before you get off course.
NTXRockr@reddit
I think that’s USAF, as for USN the 6th is “talk”
22Planeguy@reddit
Sorry, yeah, that's how it is for usaf as well. I learned it as: Time Turn Torque (Throttle) Twist Track Talk. It's funny because even though I've moved on from turboprops, whenever I say it to myself, I still use torque instead of throttle because of how often I said it to during training.
TheViceroy919@reddit
Not a single aircraft at the school I train out of has a bug for heading nor altitude, my students seem to do just fine with their heading and altitude assignments. Not saying I don't wish I had it or not to use it if available but it's not as necessary as some people are making it out to be. Maybe I'm just used to flying clapped out planes from the 80s though.
JPower96@reddit
You guys are flying planes from the 80s??
Cries in 1966 C172H
(I jest but it's a club plane that's actually much nicer than most newer rentals I've flown, despite some quirks)
TheViceroy919@reddit
Yeah it's really not the age, but how hard it gets flown and well it's been kept up with
bfishin2day@reddit
yeah.. in that case... i just write it down with pen and paper or on my iPad.
TheViceroy919@reddit
Hey I agree, you can't go wrong writing it down!
PP4life@reddit
80's! Look at you flying some fancy new stuff! 🤣
x4457@reddit
Yes. The heading and altitude bugs do absolutely nothing for you if you're not set for something useful.
Foreign_Tomatillo_69@reddit
Never waste a bug
_toodamnparanoid_@reddit
I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill'em all!
X-T3PO@reddit
THIS. People who fly around with the heading bug not pointing to where they're going are infuriating. Also, for altitudes: Set it. Point to it. Say the altitude. Climb or descent to the new altitude. Every time.
btgeekboy@reddit
Hell, I don’t even have a heading bug in my oldschool 6-pack, so I just use the nav2 head. Not like that ever gets used otherwise anyway.
JasonThree@reddit
Yes! Use it for something useful. We have a course knob in the 737 that is useless until doing an ils approach, so we use it for single engine headings, or anything else we want!
WhiteoutDota@reddit
That's actually a good idea I might steal that
LordCrayCrayCray@reddit
He might be upset if you steal his nav2 head, but ok…🤪
cficole@reddit
I've used those for a lot of things over the years when I wasn't using them for nav. Sometimes I'd set wind direction on one, and speed on the other, before takeoff. With pattern work, I'd use one of them, or the ADF head, to count landings.
dodexahedron@reddit
Yeah. All they ever bug is me it seems. 😤
MrAflac9916@reddit
I teach this to my private students to start good habits from day 1.
NastyWideOuts@reddit
Definitely a good thing to learn in private. Slightly harder to switch into a plane equipped with those type of avionics, a G5 for example, when you start instrument. Obviously it’s not incredibly hard to do, but it is one more thing to learn in a type of flying that is task saturating.
OpheliaWitchQueen@reddit
I wish all of our airplanes had heading and altitude bugs.
ATACB@reddit
Laughs in airbus
bottomfeeder52@reddit
do airline pilots center the heading big or leave it?
JasonThree@reddit
Center it. I just always set it to whatever the plane is flying.
Machaltstars@reddit
Center it except for on final, then I personally set runway heading...helps with wind correction but 90 percent of missed approaches are "fly runway heading" so it's already pre-set just in case
Whole-Party8834@reddit
Center it. Some jets have a sync so you can press it and it automatically centers it. Some jets have it set up where it’s always in sync when not in heading mode. Some jets you have to manually center it.
Independent-Reveal86@reddit
Some aircraft don’t display the heading bug unless you’re in heading mode. When I have a bug I keep it aligned with the current heading within reason.
mustang__1@reddit
Even on nav/approach hold with the autopilot I still bug them as the autopilot does its thing. I also set all altitude assignments (or the missed approach initial altitude) on the altitude preselect or NAV2 (depending on what I'm in lol).
PlanetMcFly@reddit
On an instrument approach and hand flying, the heading bug tends to cover up the ground track diamond on Garmin displays, definitely the G5. Sometimes I’ll just twist it out of the way when it’s especially windy.
Otherwise, yes, I always bug my heading.
DanThePilot_Man@reddit
Are you bugging or selecting? In the G1000, for example, you should BUG minimums when briefing the plate, and SELECT the missed approach ALT when you pass the FAF.
Heading bugs should match the heading you’re flying, turn, sync your heading bug, turn, sync, etc. (no matter your equipment).
makgross@reddit
Careful…
Only the oldest G1000s have that autopilot.
It’s best practice in the 15 years of later models to bug the NEXT altitude, whatever it is. When on a precision approach IN GS OR GP MODE (i.e., descending after intercept), set to missed approach altitude. Minimums are tracked by the procedure selection.
There is no ALT SEL on most G1000s.
DanThePilot_Man@reddit
Most g1000s? Do they not all have an ALT SEL knob on the bottom left knob??
makgross@reddit
That’s the bug you say is separate. It’s not.
DanThePilot_Man@reddit
That’s the altitude select knob, which is explicitly not a bug…
But there is also a button, (2nd from top on the right side, I believe) which is labeled ALT and holds the altitude that you were at when you selected the ALT HOLD mode. This is on the GFC700
DanThePilot_Man@reddit
We fly G1000NXi aircraft, as SOP we never select minimums. EVER.
This is due to the procedure at our Chiefs airline. So ALT SEL goes to ground, then passing FAF select Missed Alt.
For non precision descend in VS then press ALT when reaching minimums.
JPower96@reddit
I wish I had a heading bug :(
dumptruckulent@reddit
Same. Obviously the zulu is an aircraft designed for a different purpose, but instrument flying sucks. Not a single bug in that cockpit.
DM_me_ur_tailwheel@reddit
Been there, did my IR checkride without one because the original airplane I was supposed to do it in had a prop strike on a student solo...
Pilot_Indiscretion@reddit
Rule of thumb is get in a habit of realigning the heading bug, even if you’re on GPS. That way if you have to come off, you’re not immediately commanding the plane in a turn.
I will also bug the outbound course on a hold (parallel/teardrop) so i don’t do something stupid like turn the wrong way.
bfishin2day@reddit
Set it where you want to go NOW.
stratjeff@reddit
Once past the FAF on a precision approach, set the altitude to the missed approach alt. One less thing to know during a late GA.
Use heading bug to help fly a drift-corrected course.
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Nothing accusatory, I've seen a few operators set it at the Faf, but what's the advantage of doing that over setting it when you intercept the GS?
Mgmt_Coach@reddit
I guess to be more specific, once you're on GS guidance and no longer doing step-downs.
BeenThereDoneThat65@reddit
House keeping man. House keeping you always bug
grumpycfi@reddit
Depends on the equipment.
The point of a bug is to remind you to do a thing, and depending on the avionics, demand the plane do a thing (or make a noise/not make a noise). So I'd say they're smart to use, yes. It may seem like more work initially, but once you're in the flow of something it won't be so burdensome, and very well might save you from making a silly mistake. There are situations where you might only bug a FAC, for example, if you know you're going to fly the whole thing in LNAV, but that should be what makes sense for the situation.
TLDR: Do what makes sense for what you're flying and worry less about what a DPE might think.
DM_me_ur_tailwheel@reddit
No clue if this is an industry standard thing since I haven't been around very long but my airline's SOPs have us bug the FAC after intercepting. I hate not being able to bug the wind correction angle, it feels so wrong even though it's not as necessary when you're flying with a FD.
grumpycfi@reddit
Yeah that's stupid. It's a heading bug, it should be on my (desired) heading.
time_adc@reddit
Heading bug centered at all times.
If only for one reason: What if your autopilot kicks off and you need to hand fly?
CorporalCrash@reddit
Yes, bug all changes you make. On final approach for example, most of the time you need to correct for crosswind. I find it helpful to find that sweet spot that keeps me on centerline and bug it so I know a baseline. Also makes it easier to tell which way thr winds shift while I descend if I keep holding that heading.
A bug you don't set only serves to confuse you when you forget what heading/alt/course you're supposed to be flying
SamSamTheCatMan18@reddit
I will always use the heading bug, even when flying VFR and I'm not trying to remember headings or courses. I'll at least bug the direction my winds are out of.
mister_based@reddit
Yes. Bug everything you can. Your future self will be thanking you when you're too task saturated to recall an altitude or heading from the approach plate.
Forgetting to bug altitudes, especially, can and will cause you to bust altitude restrictions.
KCPilot17@reddit
You change the final approach course if it changes (rare, but does happen, specifically with VOR approaches).
Other than that, what are you "bugging" altitude wise? An AP bottom altitude? After GS intercept or? Just kinda confused on what you're bugging.
Full_Wind_1966@reddit
Altitude bug below you on an approach past the faf seems useless and potentially dangerous (depending on AP systems). At the faf our sop says to bug the missed approach altitude (which you should usually be under).
Imagine setting a bug at minimums, then the plane automatically leveling itself, in imc with the confusion of the situation, without power adjustment...
redtildead1@reddit
Needle for the course, bug for the wind correction (when you’ve got track as one of your data fields on your gps especially)
phliar@reddit
I bug everything. Even if I'm flying VFR I bug everything. DA/MDA is a separate bug.
cofonseca@reddit
Yes.
Bunslow@reddit
i struggle to imagine bugging anything other than the current clearance, even without autopilot
f1racer328@reddit
In any airplane with autopilot, it's going to follow the heading/altitude bug (in the correct mode) so get in the habit of bugging it now. Plus its a good idea anyways for various reasons.
bhalter80@reddit
The most destructive thing in the cockpit is bad data. Having the wrong heading/alt bugged is worse than not having it at all since you may look at it and follow the bad data
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Or do you only bug the Final Approach Course, and DA/MDA minimums?
I'm an instrument student working on my flow for approaches. It seems like in the interest of "staying ahead of the plane" and minimizing unnecessary work, it would be better to just bug the Final Approach Course, and the minimums. But maybe a DPE wants to see me bug headings/altitude for every portion of an approach?
What does the internet say?
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