Policies for idiots
Posted by InsaneHomer@reddit | sysadmin | View on Reddit | 163 comments
20+ years doing this and today was the first for a user who without any authorisation took it upon himself to buy and install some software for use on his personal device [he was issued a work smartphone, MDM managed so couldn't install it (hint hint)] and tried to claim it back on expenses.
Claim denied.
But apparently it's our fault for not having a moron policy clearly stating don't do obviously dumb shit.
/Rant
HoosierLarry@reddit
Sales?
inarius1984@reddit
When is it not Sales? đ¤
Unexpected_Cranberry@reddit
When it's marketing.Â
CharcoalGreyWolf@reddit
I may not like Scott Adams, but he wasnât wrong back thenâŚ
Valheru78@reddit
Or HR
inarius1984@reddit
Oh God, I completely forgot. đ
Optimus_Composite@reddit
You didnât forget. Your brain blocked it out to protect you.
IdiosyncraticBond@reddit
inarius1984@reddit
This is eerily accurate. đ
pxsloot@reddit
Douglas Adams' hhgttg was onto someting:
dracotrapnet@reddit
That reminds me of the SEP field generator. Somebody Else's Problem.
pxsloot@reddit
immensely valuable when troubleshooting, can recommend
Technical-Message615@reddit
Or HR
token40k@reddit
Can I have fully decked out Mac Pro for work email and Mac Studio for editing? Oh and also this 8k monitor for sure is needed
supremeicecreme@reddit
âCapcutâ
11bulletcatcher@reddit
Wait you're saying the marketing g guy next to me is NOT an outlier? Oh my god...
token40k@reddit
how many gopros and dji drones he procured?
11bulletcatcher@reddit
Thankfully he hasn't actually gone hard yet, he's just rocking two video cameras, some microphones and a macbook for the marketing podcasts he's doing, and dude's pretty chill. Actually showed him how to use FFMPEG the other day so he could convert some images to use as backgrounds on a tv. (The tvs all use USB 2.0 and only recognize jpegs.) That said the complaints around what he has access too are already starting to bubble up so we'll see what shenanigans he gets me into lol. Currently dude's new hobby is setting up these podcasts last minute and asking me to rescue him from himself not rehearsing and testing his AV setup. Keep trying to hint to him to give himself an extra 30 minutes, but guess he'll learn the hard way.
69AfterAsparagus@reddit
Or the CEO
Any-Fly5966@reddit
lol came in to say this. We had a marketing user subscribe to a SaaS application with her own credit card because she didnt want to follow process and somehow slipped it into expenses. She got fired, and then sent us an email demanding a refund for the auto-renew to the tune of $3000.
So sorry. That was not an approved subscription. We have a well documented approval process.
inarius1984@reddit
Palpatine: "Gooooood..."
joshuamarius@reddit
Also...Recruiters đ
Unlikely_Commentor@reddit
"It's the same picture."
angrytwig@reddit
back when i was in a marketing department, one of our managers had so much trouble communicating with the tech team about pixel placement. it was kind of funny since it wasn't my fight. i think she used to put in requests to place the pixel but wouldn't give them any specs or documentation, so they would just shelve it
Timothy303@reddit
The horrid Outlook plugins marketing would call about on Friday night⌠barf.
HoosierLarry@reddit
When itâs management. Or, when itâs engineering. They think that they know IT better because they ran fiber throughout their house and have a âhome labâ.
jason_steakums@reddit
Makes you wish you could pen test their home lab just to get the point across
SayNoToStim@reddit
When its HR
mirrax@reddit
Maybe if he tried to reboot it three times.
fuzzentropy2@reddit
We had head of dive staff tell us we found this software to track our divers dive times for training. He then handed us the software he ALREADY bought for us to install.
The only way it would run was on a local admin account. Nope. He brought it all the way up the chain, but still nope!!!
Seemed dumbfounded that we would not just make him a local admin.
bluehairminerboy@reddit
Did you try the ol' ACT shim method? Won't work if the app truly needs admin but it probably doesn't. https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/askperf/act-suppressing-elevation-prompts-for-legacy-applications/374734
cyclotech@reddit
I mean you can use a software like Auto Elevate for that so a regular user account can elevate a program as admin
fuzzentropy2@reddit
This was a few years ago, and out of curiosity I tried a couple of common elevation workarounds and it still did not run correctly. That was enough. We are supposed to check/advise/approve software to be purchased/installed and they did not go through us before purchasing.
cyclotech@reddit
I feel the pain, we have people purchase things all the time and then bring them to us. They get in a call with a salesman and they believe this 10000 dollar program will make them more efficient even though they canât use email
RikiWardOG@reddit
Ya but this is a new vendor and if a modern software solution requires admin access to run than its poorly written and it's not getting approved. There's a vendor process and a reason its required to follow it at most places.
Michelanvalo@reddit
I don't even understand why an app that tracks times from, I'm guessing, some kind of radio signal from the diver's equipment needs admin rights.
fuzzentropy2@reddit
We were kind of surprised and aghast at that also.
way__north@reddit
lazy programmers, "it works on my machine" etc..
belgarion90@reddit
So it can install malware.
AmusingVegetable@reddit
Thatâs a bit reductionist⌠the app can be the malware, no need to install extras.
wazza_the_rockdog@reddit
TBH it also pre-warns you about the quality of the rest of their support/processes etc, if they can't be bothered figuring out how to run the software without admin rights their support are likely to be just as lazy about working out any issues you have - you'll get the "works fine for us" excuse and them blaming everything they can think of about your setup. Their whole testing regimine would have been to run it on a single dev laptop connected directly to the the dive timer, with full admin rights, no anti-virus or anything to get in the way - and that will be all they "support".
fuzzentropy2@reddit
This was part of our reasoning. In current scheme of things if they couldn't be bothered write a simple logging program to run without admin, what type of crappy shit is in it?
way__north@reddit
spot on
Technical-Message615@reddit
This is going to get some extra traction when NIS2 is implemented. Even when your dumbass C-suiter wants to force your hand, you can say it's illegal to do so.
wazza_the_rockdog@reddit
The vendor likely won't support the software unless it's straight up local admin - sure it's all good if it works perfectly with auto elevate, but any issues you have will be blamed on that.
I have a vendor like that, stupidly expensive bit of test equipment bought before my time - has a check in the main exe to see if it's a local admin but it doesn't actually do anything that requires local admin - bypass the check using cmd RunAsInvoker and the program runs fine, can do everything it needs to (read/write to the test instrument, database etc) but as soon as anything doesn't work they blame the lack of local admin rights. Had also set up an auto-approval for it to run as admin via AdminByRequest but same thing, any issues and they just blamed AdminByRequest.
pyhnux@reddit
I had a case like that. Someone came to me asking that I install some software on multiple laptops. Check the software: some questionable Chinese software. Check further - requires admin permissions to run.
The quickest DENIED of my life.
sryan2k1@reddit
We had a user complain about the cost of microsoft authenticator because when they searched for it a sponsored app came up above the Microsoft version and they were paying $20 a month for some 3rd party TOPT app.
Sovey_@reddit
One of those fake ones tried to charge a user $400. Our onboarding letter explicitly states to ensure it is published by Microsoft Corporation now.
shikkonin@reddit
Why the hell don't you just roll it out through your MDM?
music2myear@reddit
I have Authenticator for my work account set up on my personal phone for a "break glass"-lite situation where my work device has failed or been wiped. This is in addition to the setup on my device.
shikkonin@reddit
Backup codes, anyone?
music2myear@reddit
Yea, I've got those too. I care about security on my personal device too and this is just far more convenient.
Sovey_@reddit
Do you issue company phones to every employee? Because we sure don't!
shikkonin@reddit
Of course we do, what? If they need a phone for any part of their job, they're getting a company phone.
Loading_M_@reddit
They may not have an MDM, or they may allow employees to use personal devices as a authenticator.
Valkeyere@reddit
That's my go to as well, unless I can just send them the installation QR code for it.
Frankly the app stores need to fix that shit. That specific search should only return one result.
sryan2k1@reddit
Sending the QR has caused us nothing but headaches because they can't scan it from their phone to their phone.
Impressive_Change593@reddit
yeah I honestly don't know how to scan one (unless it's already an image) without screenshotting it then using Google lens. depends on how it's being sent it might be somewhat stupid and a link would be easier
Dwonathon@reddit
Open camera, point at code, click on link. lol
jazzy-jackal@reddit
On an iPhone, you can click a QR code on any photo in your photos app
AlexisFR@reddit
Can't they just use their computer?
boli99@reddit
have it tattoed on their forehead. then they can snap it with a mirror selfie.
like and follow my channel for more top quality tech support tips.
Jaereth@reddit
For real. You know most apps sure - but major line of business things? Like if you type "Microsoft Authenticator" I don't want to see any sponsored boomer bait links appear above that in the search results. Same would go with phrases like "Chrome" "Dropbox" "Duo" etc.
jailh@reddit
Yes, but the money ?
allegedrc4@reddit
Surely there's an aka.ms link to it that you can tell them to go to?
Or would that be a bit much for some users, I wonder...
Hustep51@reddit
I canât help but chuckle at that! Thank did for Into auto deployment of the app and no apple App Store
Valkeyere@reddit
We have one, soon two or three customers we officially support mobiles. I hate phone support, but I do love intune for mobiles. ABM is something I still need to get my head around though. Android is soooo much easier to manage/enrol
Hustep51@reddit
Have not had hands on experience with the Android equivalent of ABM, but I do find ABM so simple to setup and configure and for the most part once it's setup correctly it's fit and forget.
eisteh@reddit
A colleague is trying to setup ABM for a client for what.. 3 weeks now? It always fails for some reasons, the request gets deleted and he has to wait 48 hrs to retry. I never looked over his shoulder and I don't know the process but it certainly seems to be typically apple user friendly and intuitive.
Hustep51@reddit
I set it up so long ago now it maybe different from then but outside of cert renewal itâs been fit and forget for the most part touch wood
Valkeyere@reddit
I'm glad to hear that because I'm gonna have to learn how to set it up shortly.
For real though the android method is brain-dead simple to enrol them. Can even send the QR code to remote users and just tell them to factory a phone they've bought off the shelf and then enrol themselves fully corporate managed.
jimicus@reddit
That's because the correct way to enrol Phones is you have your retailer provide the phones pre-registered with your MDM.
Which is doable, but requires both you and your vendor to be reasonably on the ball.
Valkeyere@reddit
Not necessary with androids. First screen of the oobe just tap the screen like 5-7 times, brings up the camera to scan a QR code, and you get the QR code out of intune. Super easy. Also fuck apple.
Different_Back_5470@reddit
I work at a smaller org and we failed to get premium included during the budget negotiations, thank god atleast we were able to mandate android devices.
Mental_Act4662@reddit
Ridiculous. Most people just click the first one. Apple needs to fix this!
agbobeck@reddit
Has it been reported?
nerfblasters@reddit
38 in productivity. A ton of people are falling for it.
The app stores aren't "fixing" it because they're making a shitload of money off of those ads and a cut of the purchases.
spaetzelspiff@reddit
Fuck that. Top 38 at $20/mo? I need to work on my side hustle.
RoosterBrewster@reddit
Reminds of Microsoft trying to nickel and dime you by charging 99 cents for an heic codec.Â
soulblade64@reddit
This is personally infuriating and partly on Apple/Google for not blocking those paid ads when people search for authenticator.
I'm in a small org, I often direct people to download the MS app on their personal device (if they're not being issued a company phone) and I've taken to saying explicitly that the first result is a scam app.
Taikunman@reddit
Yeah when we enabled MFA multiple people bought paid authenticators despite being provided with a link to the Microsoft one.
cyclotech@reddit
I've seen a fired user say that the employee AUP didn't explicitly state they couldn't steal and sell cell phones.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Same, but work laptop.
They said something along the lines of 'I have a computer, don't need a work specific one, sold it to buy accessories I needed for mine, i've done this every place I worked'
50yr old middle manager with no real achievements.
Baffling.
Obviously fired and charged. They did not seem to understand what they did wrong whatsoever. No idea how they got this far in life.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
I would say it's the participation trophy generation, but 50 yo .. close, but probably not. I still think of the 80's and 90's as only yesterday, so kind of lose perspective.
furiouspotato24@reddit
Don't forget, participation trophies were created by parents who couldn't handle their kids being 'just okay' at something. It wasn't the kids who demanded them.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
Correction, by new age educators who probably didn't have kids. Parents thought they were stupid.
I don't blame the kids.
furiouspotato24@reddit
You've obviously never coached youth sports
BloodFeastMan@reddit
I coached youth baseball for about fifteen years, and while technically, the kids were supposed to be randomly dispersed at sign up time, many parents went out of their way to place their kid's sheet in my stack. I took much pride in the fact that my teams were good not because they were good athletes, but because they learned the little nuances of the game. 90's and 00's
furiouspotato24@reddit
And "new age educators" somehow had a say in which awards you handed out to your team? I highly doubt that.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
Every kid received a trophy, provided by the school district that organized the program.
Jesburger@reddit
Those kids are 40 now
WE are that generation
We are also the only generation (with some gen x) able to work on computers
Admin4CIG@reddit
I'm 63, and I wrote my first program on a TRS-80. Heck, I even did some assembly coding. I've been a programmer pretty much my whole life, and the last 30 years as a systems/network admin. I'll be retiring in about 4 more years. I'm one of the Boomer Generation.
Jesburger@reddit
I hear "Computers are not my generations thing!" 10 times a day from the boomer generation
Can some of them use computers? Maybe. We don't want to know.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
Um, okay .. I'm sixty five and began writing software on a Commodare Vic-20 in the late 70's :)
Jesburger@reddit
Commodore* ;)
BloodFeastMan@reddit
Lots of people got started on a Commodore
Jesburger@reddit
A lot of them are retired also lol
BloodFeastMan@reddit
True, but I guess my point is that every generation thinks they invented sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
Server 2003 only just going EoL in my mind
Roughrider67@reddit
I think I know that guy. Didnât know how to use his work laptop so he sent it to his kid that was in college in another country.
itishowitisanditbad@reddit
I've done troubleshooting for my dad in another country... but wouldn't have him ship it to me.
He ran a business though so it was his choice/problem.
Def seen some people not realize we know where they're working from and move states and stuff though.
jimicus@reddit
You're bringing back memories of the user who screamed abuse at me because I remotely accessed "his" PC.
BloodFeastMan@reddit
I wanna party with that guy
BoltActionRifleman@reddit
Incoming addendum to the AUP that simply states âNo illegal shitâ
SoonerMedic72@reddit
Is that not already there? We definitely have a no breaking the law section. đ
SayNoToStim@reddit
Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, cause Iâve worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time.
Happy_Kale888@reddit
Fired user was correct in there statement.
IdidntrunIdidntrun@reddit
Holy based
eldonhughes@reddit
He spent personal money to use personal property on a personal device.
Any other rules that you are supposed to manage for his personal life? Don't wear stripes with plaid? Don't eat yellow snow? Don't call your mother-in-law a truckstop lot lizard?
TheInfra@reddit
You missed the part where he tries to claim it as an expense (make the company reimburse the cost of the software no one asked or authorized him to have)
eldonhughes@reddit
No, I didn't. I was just being snarky.
Savings_Art5944@reddit
What was worth paying for?
What android app is worth paying for?
braintweaker@reddit
Accubattery, Sleep as android. There are lots of great apps.
There are no worthy apps on android by your opinion? Or you think paid apps are only on appstore?
frogotme@reddit
Sleep as android is great, bought it like 5 years ago for ÂŁ25 or something and I still use it every night
Savings_Art5944@reddit
I am asking because I feel like I might be missing out on some good programs. I have no problem paying for an app. I have google play credit I am going to lose if I don't spend it.
Unclothed_Occupant@reddit
Tasker is the best app and absolutely worth paying for.
duke78@reddit
Plenty of apps are worth paying for. But if I want to buy it for work, I get it approved first.
Savings_Art5944@reddit
What apps have you paid for?
I bought a ODB2 scanner program long ago. I paid for a app that backed up all my messages to gmail but it is not supported anymore..
Floresian-Rimor@reddit
Mixing Station, best single invention for live sound in the last 50 years.
OgdruJahad@reddit
If you have to write a policy on not doing dumb shit it would be the size of compete set if the Lord of the Rings. Then the user will claim they didn't read THAT part of the policy.
You can't fix stupid.
Zed091473@reddit
Intelligent-Magician@reddit
In the German military, there is a policy that requires soldiers to start swimming once they reach a certain water depth. Every policy has its purpose, and there's a sucker born every minute.
"Once the water depth reaches 1.20 meters, the soldier must independently initiate swimming movements."
AlexisFR@reddit
Well, does your IT policy explicitly forbid that ?
Geminii27@reddit
Yeah, you need to have moron policies. Otherwise, someone will get hired who either has never listened to any policy anywhere, or they genuinely have never held a job which needed to know that. You might be getting someone fresh out of school, or from a different culture, or who has come from a more physical-work background.
You really do have to absolutely spell it out to the point where if someone breaks the policy, it's not an IT issue, it's an HR issue to deal with.
Ideally, it should also be hard as hell to even accidentally break the policy, such as someone taking a phone or laptop home and their teenage kid deciding to install a bunch of crap on it.
Hustep51@reddit
We always say in our user induction explicitly âkeep work work and keep personal personal with a clear divideâ so far in the 7 years Iâve been in my current role nobody has broken tack.
darguskelen@reddit
My absolute favorite scene from The Rookie involves Thorsen taking crime scene photos on his personal phone. It tracks so much with why I make sure I never use my personal phone for work purposes, and nobody else should either.
OpenScore@reddit
I have seen that scene several times on YouTube, and yes, that makes sense, and not just for that.
Never ever use a personal phone or laptop for work.
When I started working in the call centre business as sysadmin, the first thing I asked for was a comparison phone with a company mobile number. I'm not answering or responding to work on my personal phone.
iFella@reddit
I often wonder why so many sysadmins continue to entertain a career doing something they seem so frustrated with.
OpenScore@reddit
It often makes for good stories to share with others.
CKtravel@reddit
Uhm...if it's a company-issued work smartphone then it isn't a personal device though, is it?
ziroux@reddit
Isn't personal device when it's used only by you, even if it's owned by the company, and private device if owned by you?
exjr_@reddit
I read it as: the user wasnât able to install the software on their work-issued phone, so they installed it on their personal device to get around the restriction.
CKtravel@reddit
Oh okay, that makes sense.
duke78@reddit
He couldn't install it on his work phone, so he bought it on his personal phone instead.
ancientstephanie@reddit
Years and years ago, in a callcenter environment working with sensitive data, we were informed in training that if we attempt to do anything on the floor except use the provided software on the provided devices in the exact manner we were trained to do, we would be escorted out the door within minutes. Complete with a lecture from the BOFH that it was her system and that the second you forgot it, she would have your head.
And that was exactly what happened. The workstations were closely monitored. If you did anything that triggered a UAC dialog, if you tried plugging or unplugging devices, any of that, it was immediately investigated. If it wasn't the result of something blessed by IT, or if you were caught with your personal devices exposed anywhere on the floor, you were gone before you could have the chance to say "but I didn't think".
If you needed to use your phone, you went to the break room. If someone needed to contact you while you were on duty, they called the receptionist to pass a message. If you needed paper, it was issued to you, with every sheet inventoried to make sure it's turned back in and shredded.
Still managed to have at least one person a week there get walked out the door for violating the security policy.
Nezothowa@reddit
Toxic workplace. Thatâs all there is to it.
ancientstephanie@reddit
Mobile phone carrier, late 2000s, early 2010s, at a time when they were quite paranoid about privacy threats, especially in outsourced call centers.
Darth_Malgus_1701@reddit
Back at my first call center gig, the managers would sweep the call floor with a sniffer looking for phones that were powered on and if found, the offender could be fired on the spot.
sxspiria@reddit
One of our tier 1 helpdesk guys decided it was okay to take home an extra company laptop and install Steam and a bunch of games on it. Then when he was confronted about it all he said was "well, I didn't know we weren't allowed to do that." He was fired shortly thereafter because he quite literally did not do jack shit and just let the ticket queue pile up while he sat there making AI slop on his company laptop.
Sovey_@reddit
Had a user reach out after leaving because they were still getting billed for a subscription that was tied to the Apple account that they registered with their company email address. No... I cannot reactivate your account and log into it for you to retrieve the forgotten password email for your Apple account.
ZAFJB@reddit
That is unnecessarily obtuse. Just add the email as an alias to your own account. Login, change email to new email address. Delete alias.
Sovey_@reddit
"Obtuse?" So you're saying you would happily access a mailbox, against company policy, to do a terminated employee a favour?
Michelanvalo@reddit
As the other guy said, making an alias is not the same thing as accessing the mailbox but it also depends on how the user left.
I would, however, get the request approved by HR.
ZAFJB@reddit
It is not the same thing.
Dry_Marzipan1870@reddit
only reason to clearly state policies is so you can say "see it says right here" because we know users will sure as fuck not read the policy book.
Secret_Account07@reddit
What dept? I shouldnât know but I feel like I 100% do.
SpaceGuy1968@reddit
Sales and marketing are always good for stuff like this
HerfDog58@reddit
Most of the people I've encountered over my career that have pulled this crap have used the "But you didn't EXPLICITLY say it wasn't OK to do that!" Like I have to tell you it's not OK to stick your hand into a running lawn mower.
So go ahead, don't let me stop you, stick your hand in there. I'll be over here updating the reimbursement policy.
dhardyuk@reddit
I met a man who told me of a time in the 70âs when he put his hand into a municipal lawnmower where the blades were stopped.
He yanked out a rock that was jamming the blades.
He still had all of his fingers, but the skin on the back of his hand looked like it had been torn off and taped back on. He has since developed a strong opinion on making sure machines were turned off before you got to the finding out part.
McGondy@reddit
The reason you turn off the mowen and unplug the spark plug.
Just to make sure the damn thing is actually off!!
Jaereth@reddit
I mean, you don't have an acceptable use policy?
slippery_hemorrhoids@reddit
Why are you managing or approving expenses tho
InsaneHomer@reddit (OP)
He claimed it as an IT expense so falls under my overhead budget, so it was queried by accounts dept.
slippery_hemorrhoids@reddit
That makes sense. Did they bitch and moan they spent their own money?
Valdaraak@reddit
Don't know about OP, but software purchases hit my budget. If someone were to buy software and try to expense it, Accounting would come to me for approval on that before final approval of the expense report.
deepwat3r@reddit
Same, it's something we review monthly and I catch/kill so much stupidity that way.
Valdaraak@reddit
Yea. I'm at a construction company and construction accounting is, well, "fluid". Budgeting is a mess. Some things get charged to job sites, some hit overhead (my budget). Some hit job sites for part of the year, then hit overhead. Some are entirely overhead but will also get partially recouped from random job sites throughout the year. Some get expensed and someone tries to charge it to overhead and then I redirect it to the job site actually using it.
McGuirk808@reddit
To be fair, not every company has proper IT policy and MDM implemented. It'd be transitioned over from an organization that does not, that may well not have been something he was familiar with.
May want to see about a brief rundown of company machine dos/donts being issued with other training materials HR sends out for new hires.
I_T_Gamer@reddit
Personally I don't care what you did at your old org. There is no planet where "we did this at my last job" is going to stand on its own. This is a process issue, and as you mention could/should be handled in onboarding.
We've 1000% had folks make stupid choices with their company credit card, but those poor choices don't come back on us(IT budget).....
jmbpiano@reddit
"This is how it's been done at the last five companies I've worked for and I'm so used to it I never even thought it was a question I'd need to ask," makes for a moderately reasonable argument... the first time.
Arudinne@reddit
ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
That's a problem they can take up with accounting.
disposeable1200@reddit
I mean
Do you have a software usage and software purchasing policy?
Are they both part of your acceptable use policies or IT terms and conditions? Which should then be in the user contract
EventAdorable4100@reddit
relax