Modders found a way to inject AMD FSR4 support to any DLSS2+/XeSS games - (optiscaler)
Posted by fatso486@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 122 comments
NGGKroze@reddit
This is all great and I hope it will put more public pressure on AMD to give FSR4 adoption it deserves given its improvements.
But to average Joe, this is worthless when the competition is available in far more games and far easier to toggle on. Do we have indication of any incoming FSR4 native implementation to games. DLSS4 already have a few.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
It was in over 30 games on launch day. I have tried it in marvel rivals and the difference is actually astounding way beyond anything you can see on a youtube video.
69enjoyerfrfr@reddit
how did you disable dilated motion vectors? it says I need to disable that but I can't seem to find where or how
teutorix_aleria@reddit
Not sure what this means, FSR4 is natively available in game settings with up to date drivers and a compatible GPU. It was previously available as a toggle in Adrenaline software.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Unfortunately due to the way FSR was prior to 3.1 (no drag and drop DLLs) the vast majority of games are going to be stuck in FSR 2/3 hell without using optiscaler because it'll take a dev update (LMAO) to fix.
COMPUTER1313@reddit
And some devs/publishers want that control. Firaxis went out their way to close code path options that Civilization 6 modders were using because they didn’t want those mods to compete against their later DLCs. Then put in a hard cap on the graphic assets to force players to either use the DLCs they paid for, or graphic heavy mods, but not both.
Strazdas1@reddit
It should be criminal offense to intentionally block games from modding. Modding is in fact a legal right.
Noble00_@reddit
Yeah, and most likely the reason why games still needs to be whitelisted by AMD.
Framed-Photo@reddit
It's a good call, it's also why Nvidia is whitelisting games within their app to change DLSS versions.
The fact that AMD got people VAC banned, even temporarily, is inexcusable. I couldn't blame any somewhat serious competitive player for never wanting to buy an AMD card ever just because of this situation alone. I wasn't even directly effected but do play a VAC game with well over 5k hours, and it has made me much more hesitant to consider going AMD in the future even though I'm currently using AMD.
If they let something similar happen again it would look so bad lol.
ThankGodImBipolar@reddit
Eh, it will make RDNA 4 more attractive to those who are aware of it, and those buyers will fund AMDs efforts to get native FSR integration into more games.
Magjee@reddit
It's like hardware got exciting again
Earthborn92@reddit
Nah, average Joe PC gamer is more likely willing to tinker with this stuff. If they do care about image quality, they now have a way to improve it.
Nothing beats official support, the question is why it takes gamedevs to long to implement it if modders have done it a week after release.
Devatator_@reddit
You definitely have no idea what the average Joe is like if you think that
Earthborn92@reddit
I specified PC gamer. The average Joe is either a console gamer or doesn’t go into the settings menu at all.
The kind of person who cares about image quality is likely able to mod his game.
BFBooger@reddit
Strangely, the only games I play right now, the NVidia toggle doesn't work, and I have to force it the manual way with registry hacks to get DLSS 4. Yeah, there is a big list of things that just work for NV, but not everything.
Devatator_@reddit
Because it's using a whitelist for some reason. You need to go edit the Nvidia App config file somewhere and set it as read-only which sucks but hey, anything to get DLSS4 in The Finals
Dat_Boi_John@reddit
It's not that much more complicated than DLSS swapper though, the main branch is bundled into DLSS Enabler which even has a nice little installer and is very easy to setup.
BUDA20@reddit
just a toggle always wins for the general public,
that being said, I use Optiscaler all the time for DLSS to FSR 3.1.x conversion and DLSS-FG generation
and Lossless Scaling Frame Gen for all the game with no upscaler-fg support
I read all the time people with bad experiences with LS in particular, talking like is just bad and is not possible to have good results, when is just complicated to do so.
noiserr@reddit
It's a pain to get it installed for each game. But if you have that one game you play a lot that really needs upscaling, the effort is worth it imo. It's a nice option to have.
Lauonic@reddit
Cool misinformation. Nightly Builds contain single bat file, which will do all work (just drag files, and open optiscaler.bat)
noiserr@reddit
I watched some tutorial to be honest, watching some guy move files around. Didn't know there were automations around it.
syneofeternity@reddit
Should probably not make comments like yours unless you have all the info ..
rW0HgFyxoJhYka@reddit
Not his fault though? Not everyone, especially the casual gamer, is going to want to do anything even as simple as running bat files and copying stuff in.
This stuff is strictly already in the enthusiast territory which is why 99% of gamers have never heard of optiscaler. Plus it used to be a pain in the ass and watching old videos and not being up to date is something only enthusiasts would be aware of. B
The guy even likes Optiscaler and you guys are giving him shit for having outdated information lmao.
Lauonic@reddit
His problem then xD. Nvidia gamers are swapping dll in dlss for ages to get newest dlss 4 in almost any title, so stop crying
ArdaOneUi@reddit
Yes the nightly builds (which you should use anyway and need for fsr4) are automated. You just drag all files onto the game files and click on the bash file
ExplodingFistz@reddit
Trying to get it work on DS Remake to no avail. Sucks having to use FSR 2
farky84@reddit
How on earth does one install optiscaler? I followed the steps pn git, but then what? I disn’t find a manual or anything. No idea how to use it or install it.
Temporala@reddit
If you downloaded latest nightly build, it has a bit simpler install, IIRC.
Just unpack the Optiscaler archive in a new directory.
Then go there, and select all files and copy-paste them in game folder where the real game executable is (this isn't always as obvious as it seems) and run install optiscaler install bat file. It will open a command line window.
Usually you then select 1 and 1 (amd/intel) on the installer and it does the rest automatically, including fetching one missing amd file from windows folder (amdxcffx64.dll).
Then you can start your game and load a save, and press "insert" key to open the Optiscaler interface.
No-Neighborhood4043@reddit
This does not work for me on Unreal Engine 5 games...if I select 1 for DXGI.dll, it does complete the install however when I start the game I get an UE5 error....IF I select ANY of the rest of them 2-7, it completes as normal but then when I go into game, INSERT doesnt bring up the GUI??? Im at a loss?
Temporala@reddit
I tried UE5 game (Robocop) and it worked.
Files had to go into \Game\Binaries\Win64 directory to install properly.
SherbertExisting3509@reddit
Microsoft should make a universal upscaling driver that any GPU vendor can use so that this problem won't be a factor anymore
NarenSpidey@reddit
DirectX Super Resolution and Auto SR already exist within Windows 11 and work with FSR, XeSS, and DLSS. It uses a CNN model though
AlexisFR@reddit
Now they need to make FSR works on older AMD GPUs.
No-Neighborhood4043@reddit
What makes me wonder about this, is Ancients video today. He used Optiscaler to pull ( maybe hook is the correct term ) DLSS4 trigger points for FSR4 on his 9070xt with great results. SO if he can use an entirely different cards architecture and software to translate to FSR4, Its hard for me to imagine it wont work on my 7900XTX, which SEEMS to be why Adrenaline immediately moved FSR4 into driver level toggle, where we cant just swap DLLs???
Now I cant get Optiscaler to work, I run the .bat, it completes but if I choose the default diax.dll UE5 errors out, if I choose any of the others the install completes ( presumably rewriting the DLSS plugin folder file ) but "insert" does not pull the Optiscaler GUI up, help an old man make it make sense :)
Id definitely give up some performance for a better looking upscaler, the problem is even if I run RAW 1440p without ANY FSR....My character's will have static looking noise in them among other anomolies that disappear with FSR ON but then we know the shimmer, blur ect ect kicks in...cant run without it or with it...lol...HELP...
fatso486@reddit (OP)
Im not optimistic of this happening. I mean RDNA2/3 should support it but im expecting a noticeably worse performance hit compared to the 9000 cards to the point that most people would rather use fsr3 anyway.
PrefersAwkward@reddit
Well maybe but it's possible you'd step down quality a bit and get a better image. So if you would run FSR 3.1 on quality, you instead go for FSR4 balanced.
It could theoretically look better without so much of the artifacting and quality loss of FSR 3.1
WhoTheHeckKnowsWhy@reddit
ugh, well hope they all have 4k displays and a 7900XTX powerful enough to run it. FSR3 is looking rough these days at all but 4k quality.
Even if it would be like DLSS4 transformer with Turing where the performance boost is barely 10%, it would still be nice to have the option for older Radeon cards via a software fallback like XeSS dp4.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
0.0 chance of that due to the required AI TOPs
Best case scenario is you see a XeSS situation where you have a Dp4A path which is lower quality, but still pretty good. Downside is that XeSS 1.3 Dp4A is more expensive than FSR, and you'd likely see the same result in a possible Dp4A FSR4 implementation, but it looks so much better that it's worth it imo, but worth pointing that out for people on much older GPUs
AlexisFR@reddit
But doesn't RDNA3 also has AI cores ? Or is it entirely new to RDNA4?
onetwoseven94@reddit
It’s entirely new to RDNA4. RDNA3 has AI-specific instructions but they run on the regular compute cores
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Iirc they have them, but RDNA 4 added the lower precision instructions that RDNA 3 GPUs lack, making the matrix math calculations much, much faster.
Natty__Narwhal@reddit
Can you be a bit more specific about what you mean by AI cores? Afaik, RDNA has WMMA instructions within the shader cores which accelerates mxn operations but does not have a dedicated hardware block like Matrix cores, XMX cores and Tensor cores (in CDNA, Arc and Nvidia architectures respectively). I really really hope RDNA4 has equivalent hardware, but I haven't seen anything that confirms this.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Rdna4 has dedicated matrix math cores:
https://www.pcgamer.com/hardware/graphics-cards/amd-has-officially-revealed-its-rdna-4-based-rx-9070-and-rx-9070-xt-gpus-and-they-look-a-lot-like-rdna-3-only-turbocharged/#section-specifications
128 on the XT and 112 on the regular.
Natty__Narwhal@reddit
Wow that's awesome! I had expected UDNA to be the introductory architecture for Matrix cores but it looks like AMD jumped the gun!
Earthborn92@reddit
UDNA will probably have even more dedicated AI resources so the frametime cost for upscaling is lowered per CU.
we will also see AI features used in more than rendering.
Kryohi@reddit
If you refer to FP8 support, that doubles the FLOPS. But FSR4 has to run on NAVI 44 cards as well, which are half of Navi 48. So if the problem is simply FP8 support, Navi 31 cards would be more than enough for FSR4 on FP16.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
I mean we already know they can do much better on RDNA 3 even without matrix acceleration -- just look at XeSS DP4a lol
Thus, I'm with you: even if it's lower quality, I don't see much reason they couldnt do XeSS style split for FSR4 on RDNA 3 vs RDNA 4.
_zenith@reddit
It doesn’t have INT8 iirc, so they’d have to use INT16. Consequently, performance would be rather low
Exotic-Proposal-1159@reddit
Basically all modern GPUs since like Pascal era have support for INT8.
Henrarzz@reddit
RDNA3 does have INT8, it doesn’t have FP8
https://www.amd.com/content/dam/amd/en/documents/radeon-tech-docs/instruction-set-architectures/rdna3-shader-instruction-set-architecture-feb-2023_0.pdf
BFBooger@reddit
For the sort of operations in the current iteration of FSR4, RDNA3 is 4x slower per clock than RDNA4.
A model built explicitly to work with what RDNA3 does best (16 bit matrix math), could be done, it would be lower quality output than FSR4 but not as slow as just running FSR4's 8 bit operations on 16 bit RDNA3 execution units.
f3n2x@reddit
Over 6x slower.
kuroyume_cl@reddit
I'll happily take that.
ProperCollar-@reddit
Just inject XeSS. I do it on my 5700 XT and it's fine at 1440p.
Yes, I can notice the difference and yes it costs me a few frames compared to bog standard XeSS or FSR.
preparedprepared@reddit
Xess works on rdna1? Thought it didn't have dp4a support
ProperCollar-@reddit
Sorry, wrong GPU. I've owned like 5 different GPUs the past 10 months.
But I'm back on my 5700 XT until I can get a 6070 XT or 5070 (Ti) for close to MSRP.
You're correct, you need newer cards to do the AI stuff. I wonder if there's a way to bruteforce it but I imagine it would absolutely tank performance.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
Injection is fine but a native solution would be nice.
ProperCollar-@reddit
Meh, optiscaler is easy enough and I get it.
Imagine the outrage if AMD took the optiscaler approach and a bunch of the games were completely busted.
AMD has to do QA that modders don't.
advester@reddit
We saw what happens when AMD does that for anti-lag: gamers get flagged as cheaters. Definitely lots of outrage.
the_dude_that_faps@reddit
If Nvidia can run its transformer model on old RTX 2060 laptops, AMD can make their model work for RDNA3. Where there's a will, there's a way. Theyight need to lower the quality of the model a bit, but that would still be a massive improvement over FSR3. Considering basic XESS is better and runs on RDNA3, they should be able to.
SonVaN7@reddit
its not that easy, reading your comment i see you dont know a shit about how this things works
the_dude_that_faps@reddit
First, I never said easy. Second, you'd be surprised about how much I know. But go ahead hot shot. Illustrate me.
BFBooger@reddit
The perf hit on 2000 series and 3000 series NVidia for DLSS4 is significantly higher than on 4000 and 5000 series.
It might be possible to get FSR4 working on RDNA 3 but it will be a big perf hit (4x less AI power than RDNA4 without sparsity if the 8 bit stuff is run as 16 bit, and worse if sparsity is used). Alternatively, a different, lower quality, lighter model using 16 bit floats could probably run on RDNA3. Imagine something more DLSS 2.4 ish quality but with a bigger performance hit.
The best you're going to get for RDNA 2 is Xess 1.3 DP4a.
DktheDarkKnight@reddit
What about the solution that they worked on with Sony for PS5 PRO? PSSR is a low cost model of FSR 4 right? (AMD hasn't stated this outright, but they did mention FSR 4 was co-developed with Sony). So it's possible RDNA3 and maybe RDNA 2 can get PSSR like FSR 4 implementation that is less demanding.
p-zilla@reddit
AMD would have to release it for that to happen, and if it's Sony exclusive then it won't happen.
DktheDarkKnight@reddit
I don't think it's a Sony exclusive feature. PSSR is simply the marketing name. They could use almost the same code for use in PC.
ProperCollar-@reddit
I'm pretty sure Sony did a lot of it in-house. The timeline and marketing doesn't line up with Sony rebranding FSR.
p-zilla@reddit
prove it
LimLovesDonuts@reddit
0 chance. It'll probably be significantly slower on older cards if they can even get it to work at all.
bAaDwRiTiNg@reddit
Sure, just retroactively insert the necessary amount of tensor core hardware (or whatever the AMD equivalent is called) into older AMD GPUs and it'll work.
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Optiscaler kicks so much ass
I use it in nearly every game on my Rog Ally X. Using XeSS1.3 vs FSR saves so many games in terms of IQ it's ridiculous.
No-Neighborhood4043@reddit
Im having such a problem getting it going, I was already using DLSS Swapper...it seems fairly simply as the newest build ( seemingly ) off github, has a .bat which when I run and select DIAX.dll ( whatever the default is ), it runs thru and I guess modifies the DLSS folder in plug ins, and of coarse the AMD_fidelity however when I try to run the game ( UE5 game under steam ) it errors out. IF I use any of the other selections 2-7 in the .bat...then it modifies the files, says its complete but in game INSERT will not activate the overlay.....would you help an old man out, what am I missing?
Tasty_Toast_Son@reddit
It looks like it only works on games with upscalers present within them already?
Fair enough, but adding upscaling tech to games without it would make my laptop so much beefier still.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
AMD super resolution already does this. It's not as good as baked in upscaling but it works well enough. It's especially handy to run older games without high resolution support without resorting to .exe hacks or other methods.
Tasty_Toast_Son@reddit
Ah, sounds neat. My laptop has an Arc GPU, so sounds like I would have to play around to see what's out there.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
If you are willing to drop ~10 dollars lossless scaling can upscale any game and even has a frame gen feature.
plantsandramen@reddit
Very interesting, I'm curious. So is XeSS1.3 better than fsr 2?
Does the game need to support an upscale for this to work, or can it add upscaling to any game?
ArdaOneUi@reddit
The game needs to have eother xess or fsr to begin with
upvotesthenrages@reddit
Is the title wrong then?
It clearly says it can use FSR 4 in any game with XeSS/DLSS in it.
teutorix_aleria@reddit
No you can hook the DLSS API into FSR as far as i understand it.
plantsandramen@reddit
Ty!
roehnin@reddit
What's the benefit of XeSS1.3?
the_dude_that_faps@reddit
It's ML based and runs on RDNA3 so the IQ is better than FSR
ProperCollar-@reddit
IQ?
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Image quality
ProperCollar-@reddit
Ahh gotcha, thanks
jnf005@reddit
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to use image upscaler.
ProperCollar-@reddit
And it only works with Rick and Morty.
hordak666@reddit
plumbus cores
F9-0021@reddit
Looks better than FSR 3.1
Prefix-NA@reddit
Dlss 3 is no where near fsr 4 if it's on par with 3 it's not with fsr4 they never fixed blurry textures on dlss
I haven't seen comparison yet but I'd not be surprised if it's fsr4 quality.
Famous_Wolverine3203@reddit
“Nowhere near FSR4” is a huge overstatement. There is a slight advantage for FSR4 in terms of texture clarity, but DLSS3 also does have an advantage in terms of particle blur etc over FSR4.
It is also a much cheaper algorithm to run than FSR4.
Prefix-NA@reddit
Particle blur is a bigger issue on dlss 3 what?
lifestealsuck@reddit
Is it implement vary from game to game because I saw a starwar outlaw video and it look terrible .
Logical-Database4510@reddit
Much better image stability and better upscaling quality. Here's a video from Digital Foundry showing it off:
https://youtu.be/PneArHayDv4?si=axmBHie784lws1D5
-Glittering-Soul-@reddit
Yeah, I just tried this nightly build of Optiscaler, and it's a game changer. I thought I would need at least an RTX 4080 to get path tracing in Cyberpunk 2077 at a solid framerate. Instead, I paid half the street price of an 80-class card and got results that are pretty darn good. FSR4 is just black magic compared to the earlier versions. No fizzling anywhere. I also set a 15% power limit in Adrenaline that brings the watts down to 280, and a -50mV undervolt. Pretty stable so far.
Saneless@reddit
Are the Linux instructions pretty straightforward for this?
taicy5623@reddit
I used the same program to force DLAA on FF14, its a bit finicky, but it works the same as most other dll injectors under linux. You just have to open regedit in the wine prefix.
ThatOnePerson@reddit
Well it doesn't work on Linux native games, but it works with Windows games through Wine/Proton. But yeah it's just add an additional command thing to have wine load the inject dll.
I've got it working Control for example.
kar1kam1@reddit
can you show an example?
ThatOnePerson@reddit
It's in the readme section: https://github.com/cdozdil/OptiScaler?tab=readme-ov-file#fakenvapi
Saneless@reddit
I only run games through proton so that's good
wilkonk@reddit
This is great, I'm just concerned Nvidia might try to find a way to block it in a new version of DLSS like they did when people were using AMD GPUS with a lower power Nvidia card to run PhysX.
bittabet@reddit
Honestly all the data needed to do the upscaling should just be available to the GPU drivers via a standard like DirectX and then each manufacturer can do their own upscaling algos. Having it all be game developer dependent to keep it up to date is a total mess.
preparedprepared@reddit
Does injecting fsr3. 1 with optiscaler lead to better image quality than the built in cyberpunk implementation?
ArdaOneUi@reddit
Yes much better, btw you should choose xess in cp and then in the optiscaler menu inject fsr4
Decent-Reach-9831@reddit
Dp4a xess in 2077 is terrible. Worst upscaler option in that game
preparedprepared@reddit
No fsr4 on my card, but I'll try injecting 3.1 via the xess path and see how it looks!
bubblesort33@reddit
How long until someone hacks DLSS to run on AMD's FP8 compute?
virtualmnemonic@reddit
I wouldn't be completely surprised. There was a plug-in "dlss2fsr" (or similarly named) that decompiled DLSS's and made the API calls utilize FSR. But what goes on in the API itself is way more complex.
Devatator_@reddit
Heat death of the universe
im_making_woofles@reddit
Wake me up when this works with anticheat or more specifically in Fortnite
ocp-paradox@reddit
ocp-paradox@reddit
The worm turns and AMD start to wipe the floor with NVIDIA in less than 2 weeks. Just what we needed :)
Noble00_@reddit
Here I thought it would take a while for this to happen. Really, a great workaround until AMD whitelists more FSR 3.1 games and natively adds it.
Also, to set expectations, this doesn't magically bring DLSS game support parity:
https://github.com/cdozdil/OptiScaler/wiki/FSR4-Compatibility-List
This is still early stuff that requires a bit of effort to make work.
Here's an interesting run I found. 5700X3D + 9070XT underclocked, CP2077 OD 1440p FSR4 Performance
https://www.reddit.com/r/radeon/comments/1j7innw/underclocked_9070xt_1440p_60fps_path_traced/
Camilea@reddit
For the 9070 XT an underclock is also an overclock. You can't directly change the clock speed, but if you lower the voltage the card will allocate the rest of the power to increasing clock speeds.
Noble00_@reddit
Oh, but the person also decreased both the max freq offset and power limit, effectively limiting it from hitting a high freq then if it were the default power limit? Tho, I guess they did cheat a bit by undervolting still, they are still hitting higher clocks than they usually would at the lower power limit. Have I still misunderstood?
Camilea@reddit
No I misunderstood, sorry
Noble00_@reddit
All good!
batter159@reddit
underclock is different than undervolt
ArdaOneUi@reddit
Optiscaler is amazing
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