AMD 9950X3D CPU Scores 1% Slower Than The 9950X In Blender
Posted by TruthPhoenixV@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 117 comments
So, a few new benchmarks have appeared on the Blender Open Data cpu page. These results show the upcoming Ryzen 9 9950X3D scoring around 1% slower than the regular 9950X. Which also means than the 9950X3D is 9% faster than Intel's flagship Core Ultra 9 285K. The 9950X3D scores 595 compared to the 9950X at 602 and the 285K at 544.
All this is no real surprise, but it is great to see that the addition of the 3D Vcache has no real negative impact on productivity applications. For reference the 9950X3D is also around 15% faster than equivalent previous gen cpu, the 7950X3D.
The 9950X3D and 9900X3D are expected to be available for purchase on March 12. With the 9950X3D going for $699 USD and the 9900X3D at $599 USD. Availability, as with everything these days, should be interesting.
Soph_the_silly@reddit
I think the 9950x3d has a 100mhz lower boost if i remember correctly, so not really surprising but its 1% so really not something anyone would care about, considering it will absolutely obliberate every other cpu (except the 9800x3d or maybe it will even be slightly faster than that) in gaming its def worth it, I will try to get one asap
The_One_Returns@reddit
So 9800x3d is the play then since it'll be cheaper but nearly the same for gaming?
Soph_the_silly@reddit
Yeah it will be around the same and if u only care about gaming just go with that one, I just need more multicore performance
JustAnotherINFTP@reddit
what do you need multicore for?
tacobellbooze@reddit
Blender, photoshop, video editing, coding, unreal engine, etc. plus having multiple open at the same time.
FormerDonkey4886@reddit
Multicore applications
JustAnotherINFTP@reddit
yeah.... like what
trondkla@reddit
He just don’t want to say p**n
Strazdas1@reddit
it takes a bit to multithread python.
cookomputer@reddit
It's ok I will say it "Animate p**n"
Vb_33@reddit
Video editing, Rendering, compiling etc.
PERSONA916@reddit
Because I have 3 monitors and games will use 8 cores, I don't want what I'm doing on other screens to negatively impact gaming performance. I play a lot of loot based grindy games so I often have other stuff going on
laselma@reddit
He has an upgrade addiction. Nobody needs that CPU.
EkEkEk45@reddit
I do. But you believe in some wacky stuff so no surprise your myopia makes it impossible to see why something exists if you can't use it.
lightmatter501@reddit
9950x3d, if properly set up, will get WAY better 1% lows since you can do the equivalent of giving the game exclusive use of a 9800x3d and put everything else on the other ccd. You need to do it manually since the vcache driver isn’t this aggressive, but it works really, really well. I see up to 20% perf bumps vs my friend with a 7800x3d doing the same on a 7950x3d with otherwise similar rigs.
Gloomy-Ad3143@reddit
Yes, Process lasso FTW.
PERSONA916@reddit
This is why I'm hoping AMD can find a way to fit 10 cores on a chiplet soon or Intel to get their heads back out of their asses. In my you get days I loved tweaking around with my PC now I just don't have the time or energy, I want to just play and not have to worry about CCX.
Modern games use 8-cores and I really want to have at least 2 extra cores for multi monitor stuff, for now my 10900K is still holding strong but I don't think it'll survive another GPU upgrade without becoming a massive bottleneck since it's already showing signs of that in UE5 games
lightmatter501@reddit
With the vcache driver, the dual ccd barely matters, especially with the 9950x3d. My other method is for the “numbers go up” people.
Also, zen 6 is likely to be 12 big cores per chiplet so you’ll probably get your wish.
Vb_33@reddit
It's a shame the cheapest current gen X3D is about $500. I see Zen 6 X3Ds being even more expensive with Intel having no answer in sight.
Fromarine@reddit
It's definitely more than 100mhz lower than the 9950x here seeing the 9800x3d scores about 11% higher than the 9700x. 3dvcache improves IPC in everything especially on zen 5
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
I thought the 3Ds were worse in productivity apps relatively to their amazing game performance/stability?
If I remember correctly, than thats pretty crazy. Feels like 3D CPUs might make the others obsolete in the long run, if this isnt an outlier?
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
They changed that. The old X3D CPU's were running at lower clocks because of the Vcache providing an insulation layer, making it harder to cool. They fixed it by reversing the layers so the Vcache is now underneath the cores, so clock speeds are the same as the non X3D.
So the new X3D CPU's are great for productivity as well as gaming.
TwilightFate@reddit
May I ask where/when they fixed that?
Is it already fixed (layers reverses) on the 9800X3D?
If not, what does that mean? Does it mean that the 9800X3D have some sort of disadvantage or problem that the 9950X3D doesn't have?
ConsistencyWelder@reddit
The 9800X3D has the new layering, so it performs about equal to a 9950X3D when you factor in the core count. Gaming should be about the same, but multicore productivity performance about double on the 9950X3D.
Vb_33@reddit
Zen 5 X3D, all of them.
duplissi@reddit
so were the prior gen. its a 5% or less multithreaded difference between x and x3d.
the cache being under the die though, allows them to be nearly at parity and fully unlocked, which is nice.
Vb_33@reddit
Now the X3D is faster than the 9950X overall at productivity.
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d/29.html
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
I see, thats cool to hear!
sylfy@reddit
That was true in previous generations where the 3D cache was stacked on top of the cpu die, adding an additional between the cpu die and the IHS and thus reducing heat dissipation. Thus, the cpu die with stacked 3d cache needed to be downclocked.
Current generation X3D places the 3d cache below the cpu die and thus heat dissipation is no longer an issue, thus it runs at the same clock speed as non X3D chips.
TwilightFate@reddit
Current generation meaning all the 9000 series X3D?
So incoudong the 9800X3D?
Jacob_gago@reddit
I thought so too but I guess it’s changed with this
Far_Success_1896@reddit
Why would they be obsolete? Gamers don't make up most of the market at all.
TheMiserableRain@reddit
It's never really been true, although it has been reported as such by tech reviewers who don't really understand anything past gaming, and whose test suite of 'productivity' apps tend to be freeware utilities like Cinebench, Winrar, and Handbrake.
In reality, some productivity / creative apps absolutely thrive on 3d cache, or, some tasks in some apps thrive on it, but others, less so. There's not really a hard and fast rule which fits a completely disparate range of software whose only common factor is being not games.
biciklanto@reddit
Rather than a "meta review" as you referenced, can you name one? Because this is news to me, and I'm happy to be wrong in my understanding that this isn't the case.
buryingsecrets@reddit
can you please name the softwares which thrive on 3d cache? i am curious as i am still not sure whether to get the 9950x or 9950x3d, as i have both the use cases; gaming and prod.
TheMiserableRain@reddit
I'd advise you try googling to see if the apps you use benefit from the additional cache. I'm not going to compile you a meta review on the off-chance that something on it might be relevant to your interests.
StairwayToLemon@reddit
So, no. You can't name them.
TheMiserableRain@reddit
Which apps are you interested in?
buryingsecrets@reddit
Fair enough, thank you
Bemused_Weeb@reddit
I don't see non-X3D CPUs becoming obsolete unless/until stacking on the extra cache becomes very cheap. Otherwise, it will remain sensible for many users to go for CPUs without 3D stacked cache to save money for use cases in which the increased capacity does not help.
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
In this case the 3D CPU seems cheaper than the non-3D CPU tho, right?
buryingsecrets@reddit
No, 9950x is still cheaper than 9950x3D
ixvst01@reddit
Any indication on single core performance vs. the 7950x3d? I presume it wouldn’t be worth upgrading to from the 7950x3d for gaming.
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
Would that even help with gaming? I feel like youd be GPU bottlenecked in most games anyway with CPUs like that.
bizude@reddit
In e-sports titles and MMOs it might make a huge difference
Strazdas1@reddit
or strategy, or sim, or anything that needs to draw many actors on screen, or anything that does ballistic calculation. There are many, many cases where CPU matters. Its sad many CPU reviews do not touch on that.
Strazdas1@reddit
Yes, significantly.
jwensley2@reddit
Depends on the game, like WoW is extremely CPU bound and I think other MMOs are similar. My FPS went up like 2x in some situations in WoW going from a 3900X to 7950X3D.
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
But how was your framerate before, did you go from 120 to 240fps or so?
Idk if WoW is really a game you need a $500 CPU for. It looks outdated and you probably dont get much out of >200fps?
Lille7@reddit
You dont have 200+ fps in wow raids.
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
Thats why I was asking what the base FPS was.
VYDEOS@reddit
Unless you’re on 1080p, nothing in 9000 series will make a significant difference, not even 9800x3d
Fancy_Palpitation_38@reddit
What is the single core performance like on the 9950x3D?
MrAmos123@reddit
Essentially the same as the 9950X, at least looking at Passmark's entry.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/6549vs6211vs6344vs3862/AMD-Ryzen-9-9950X3D-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-9950X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-7-9800X3D-vs-AMD-Ryzen-9-5950X
Fancy_Palpitation_38@reddit
Thank you MrAmos321
TerribleNameAmirite@reddit
I know there's plenty of reason NOT to do this, but if someone wants one CPU to do it all for the next few years, I guess this will be it?
SJGucky@reddit
Next <2 years.
The next generation with Zen6 will blow every out of the water with 50% more cores and the X3D additionally with 50% more cache.
TruthPhoenixV@reddit (OP)
Also, Zen 6 should have a better memory controller. So it should be epic. Intel is on the floor crying... ;)
Geddagod@reddit
I would find it super hard to believe that by NVL Intel wouldn't have figured out to claw back the memory latency deficit they currently have with Zen 5 parts.
Kant-fan@reddit
Even Lunar Lake is better than Arrow Lake when it comes to memory latency. Arrow Lake is probably actually closer to Meteor Lake architecturally, which also had bad latency.
bizude@reddit
You can't quite look at Lunar Lake, its on package memory gives it a distinct advantage in terms of latency.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
No it doesn't. It's the same LPDDR protocol, just physically closer w/ better signal integrity.
bizude@reddit
If you don't understand how those two factors in combination give it a distinct advantage, then I don't know what to say.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
The advantage is lower power.
Almost all of the latency is in buffers and inside the DRAM chips. Calculate ~4cm / c and you will find that the physical distance contributes almost nothing.
Kant-fan@reddit
As far as I know that's not the sole reason though. L3 cache latency was also significantly worse in Meteor Lake as well I believe.
Slyons89@reddit
Just a reminder to take a grain of salt with Moore's Law Is Dead sourced rumors (which was the origin for the information in the Toms Hardware article posted on AMD - speculation/rumors re-written into a Toms article, which is then interpreted by some as fact, when it is not yet known to be verifiably true.) It sounds great but it will be more believable when more sources corroborate.
CrzyJek@reddit
Pretty sure we saw the same leak later on on Chiphell
Slyons89@reddit
Yeah I don't doubt most of the information, considering moving to 12 core CCD seems like a natural progression anyways. Timeframes for launch of course, will be up in the air. Still, taking it as a likely, but confirmed, rumor.
Morningst4r@reddit
12 is quite a high core count across the stack. I wonder if they’ll keep an 8 core ccd for things like handhelds and entry level PCs. Either that or just keep Zen 4/5 alive for years like Zen 2.
VenditatioDelendaEst@reddit
Mobile parts historically haven't used the desktop/server CCD anyway, so they could use a separate 8-core or maybe hybrid Z5+Z5c die without it being an extra design.
einmaldrin_alleshin@reddit
I expect them to do that. The ever increasing cost of designing and manufacturing leading edge chips means that it's no longer feasible to bring the entire product stack to a new generation. Only the high end will get new toys, everyone else gets hand-me-downs. AMD has been very blunt about this with their stupid naming shenanigans for notebook parts, but they were simply the first to pull the trigger on that idea.
INITMalcanis@reddit
And more to the point, an overdue update for the IMC and the IF interconnect.
Morningst4r@reddit
Getting up to 4000 1:1 would be a big deal for performance in some areas (if it’s possible/practical)
popop143@reddit
The next generation being a mega banger doesn't make the current generation obsolete.
6950@reddit
Definitely nope cause for multicore performance we will be getting 52C/T from Intel and 24C/48T from AMD on TSMC N2 also Intel has a 144MB Gaming SKU Planned and AMD will be giving us Zen6X3D with 12C/24T
TheAgentOfTheNine@reddit
Someone drunk the mlid koolaid...
Thetaarray@reddit
I want one and am on a 9800x3d currently. But to be honest it feels like 90% of people myself included who get one would have better value with a 9950 or the 9800x3d instead.
Unless you’re doing something like high refresh or some random things with extreme benefits from x3d you would still be killing it with a 9950x in games. Or you don’t really need the workload performance.
cloutier85@reddit
this is my dilemma too, I got a 9950x sealed for 480 and still waiting to build my new pc, waiting on a 5070Ti. but now the 9950x3d is out and it looks good but I don't justify selling the 9950x and buying this for like over 200-300 more.
AimlessWanderer@reddit
its a great cpu. i switched from 7950x to 7950x3d. it does well enough for me in production work and is way better in gaming. unlike my 7950x the x3D has two great ccds.
The_One_Returns@reddit
So will the 9950X3D be significantly better than the 9950X in gaming as well or not a huge difference?
Vb_33@reddit
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d/29.html
ProperCollar-@reddit
Oh of course. Maybe not as impressive as the R7 but definitely the first time I can recommend an R9 X3D chip outside of niche use cases.
The_One_Returns@reddit
And what's your take on getting the 9800x3d over the 9950x3d if there's a significant price difference? How much better %-wise would the 9950 be?
NippleSauce@reddit
Probably equivalent in performance with a very slight performance uplift in some titles that benefit from multicore
The_One_Returns@reddit
Surely decently better future proofing due to the 16 cores right? At least if you plan to have it for 5+ years.
NippleSauce@reddit
Yes, I would say so. Good gaming performance across the board but also with improved multitasking and productivity performance relative to the 9800X3D. It kinda reminds me of Intel's i7s from back in the day (before the i9 existed).
AimlessWanderer@reddit
i would expect there to be a large uplift like the 7950x3d vs 7950x
joe0400@reddit
My 7950x3d is kinda that RN for me, plenty of threads, plenty fast for games.
So yeah this will definitely be that.
Aztaloth@reddit
Same here.
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
Not really. 9950X is better in production workload (as shown by this post) and 9800X3D is better in gaming. Unless you have a specific workload that benefit from this CPU, it is both a bad performer and bad value.
leftofzen@reddit
I both play games and have high CPU workloads (compiling C++, audio synthesis, and some bespoke data analysis programs). The 9950X3D is basically the CPU that does both for me. Would a 9800X3D suffice? Probably. Would a 9950X suffice? Probably. But the 9950X3D fills both categories for me with "definitely".
Kurtisdede@reddit
1% slower lmao
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
More in games.
bizude@reddit
It will certainly be more than 1% in games, but it will be faster not slower
PM_ME_UR_TOSTADAS@reddit
I love good ol reddit pedantism to stir up a conversation.
The thing that is more is percent points or the difference in performance. You can get that from the context but you choose to misunderstand.
Ploddit@reddit
The use case is people who use their PC for both games and productivity, obviously.
INITMalcanis@reddit
A 1% performance deficit is within MoE.
v0idst4r2@reddit
Only if you are running a 1080p monitor. A 2k/4k monitor is pretty close to the same thing.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
In the games settings you can set it to run at a lower resolution than your monitors native resolution.
v0idst4r2@reddit
There’s only a 3.5% difference in cinebench favoring 9950x3d and the 9950x outperforms the 9950x3d in blender. Non-gaming scenarios are the same thing.
So that leaves gaming. The only way to make your purchase useful is if you strictly game in 1080p. If you’re gaming in 2k/4k resolution, they’re the same thing, again.
yeshitsbond@reddit
how come they downvoted you?
Morningst4r@reddit
Upscaling is ubiquitous now and you can always turn down settings. This whole “1440+ CPU doesn’t matter” claim only applies if you load up games, turn them up to ultra, and play at whatever frame rate you get, no matter how low.
GTRacer1972@reddit
It feels like the 9950X is a better choice unless you have the cash for the X3D.
pbutler6163@reddit
Would the 3d cache component have any bearing if you are using a dedicated GPU?
Noble00_@reddit
Interested to see if AMD made any improvements to the AGESA/software/Windows side of things to make it as close as possible to 1 CCD perf. Not betting on it, but it's nice that the 14900K/285K can appropriately be compared to a similar nT perf X3D CPU that's as competitive in gaming. Probably best of all worlds now, gaming/productivity/efficiency, at least in theory
AimlessWanderer@reddit
the agesa and windows updates have worked out great. i dont run into any scheduling or core parking issues with my 7950x3d. I do not need to use process lasso at all. Games properly use just the 3d v-cache ccd and my other apps get off loaded to regular ccd. You just have to remeber to stay on the balanced power profile.
Guilty-History-9249@reddit
The benchmark I need is the 285K vs 9950x3d for LLM inference. I like the AMD for the uniform performance of all cores. However, the Intel tends to allow faster bandwidth memory and that definitely impacts LLM inference on the CPU. On the other hand the AMD has avx-512 which is definitely used for LLM's. The final complication is that, perhaps 8 cores doing inference might max out the memory bandwidth does the E core P core yuckiness even hurt the Intel.
Bottom line is we need a benchmark.
HumbrolUser@reddit
Why would it be slower thought? 16 cores running.
wtallis@reddit
As far as I know, the AM5 socket doesn't have separate power rails for each CCD; the VRMs for the CCDs are all connected together into a single rail that feeds both CCDs the same voltage.
HumbrolUser@reddit
Oh, maybe I got the voltage and clocks confused.
Soph_the_silly@reddit
The boost clock is 100mhz slower as far as I know
Kippidashira@reddit
The sample size is a very small at the time of commenting. I have already refreshed to see 1 new result with, setting the 9950X3D median to be barely ahead of the 9950X by a few points.
Xtra-jui2@reddit
The X3D chips tend to have lower clocks because of the 3D V-cache.
soupeatingastronaut@reddit
İf ı remember right they took it from between the cooling lid(?) and CPU then put it behind CPU. So the cache wont become a heat transfer point anymore.
mapletune@reddit
heat dissipation limits
Slyons89@reddit
Lower frequencies on the v-cache CCD, as with the previous gen. But less of a difference compared to previous gen due to the improvements made in 9000 series cache placement allowing the cores to clock up.
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