What is the legality of driving/towing/owning this beast
Posted by CummingOnBrosTitties@reddit | projectcar | View on Reddit | 109 comments
Current bid is only $2000 usd
RedditBeginAgain@reddit
If the GVW is over 26000 pounds you likely need a CDL or the equivalent non-commercial license endorsement if your state offers one. Maybe you can get it registered at a lower GVW if it has a large water tank you never intend to fill.
Lights and sirens will be restricted by your state's road rules. Using them on the road would be a big deal. It would be worth a talk to local police about whether you need to cover/disable/remove them to be legal to drive with them even turned off. Fire company names and logos might be restricted too.
It says "no power" in the ad, so it's going to need towing. Towing anything is legal, as long as it's a safe weight for your equipment and license.
Bredda_Gravalicious@reddit
never thought about the water tank, i wonder if it requires a tanker endorsement on a CDL? normally if it's over ~100 gallons (even empty) you need a tanker endorsement but that's always in reference to liquid totes and tanker trailers etc.
bryondouglas@reddit
Referring to the GVW weight restrictions, the states I looked up when I was researching a big camper had carve outs for recreational vehicles. It's a topic of discussion and debate for RVers (especially the big bus Class A types). Just saying it's more complicated than strictly weight
danukefl2@reddit
Recreational vehicles are typically determined by having a dedicated sleeping/living quarters so a fire truck would not apply. Always based on local laws though.
bryondouglas@reddit
For sure, I'm just saying I think its more complicated than strictly 'overweight = CDL' when a CDL is specifically commercial so there are private exceptions. Highly dependent on state and local regs of course.
I wonder how much weight you could pull off those when you don't need firefighting equipment though
danukefl2@reddit
I'm more familiar with the Southeastern states but typically it's based on GVWR on the VIN plate so you would have to strip the weight and replate it. Registered weight is an easy change at the DMV when registered.
A majority of states, excluding recreational vehicles, don't care if you are actually for commercial use or not above 26k, (It is also based on the trucks GVWR + trailer GVWR, not actual weights) you are supposed to have a CDL. Farm use and also the 10k trailer cutoffs vary quite a bit.
In theory, any newer 1 ton and some 3/4 hooked to a run of the mill 14k car hauler can put you into CDL territory.
SoloWalrus@reddit
But they dont if they arent commercial vehicles which is why the dmv doesnt ask for your cdl to register your f450. You dont need a cdl for those trucks unless youre hauling for profit loads.
State laws say "commercial vehicles over blah blah towing blah blah with GCWR of blah blah", but if you arent using the rig to earn money you can stop reading at "commercial", since it isnt.
Now you might find it harder to insure and all that, but unless youre earning money with it no cdl needed. If you are earning money with it, thats when you need to read the fine print about number of passengers, GVWR, etc.
danukefl2@reddit
That is the common misunderstanding and varies HEAVILY based on location. Typically the definition of "Commercial vehicle" in the laws are based on weight not purpose, except certain things like busses. Commercial purpose will require a CDL under multiple instances, but weight can alone except under certain stated instances.
SoloWalrus@reddit
I don't doubt this is true, but I've yet to see this be the case in any state law I've looked at. I'm sure exceptions exist and I'm just not aware of them, but it seems like much of the time it's also just people misreading the regulation. The unfortunate thing about regulation is it's written in such a archaic way that you almost have to be a lawyer to understand what the hell its saying, which leads to a lot of misconceptions.
Do you have any sources? I'd be interested in reading a case where weight alone does actually push one into a CDL.
danukefl2@reddit
I don't have a definitive case I can vouch for, just stories from people, some of which are supposedly first hand. From a legal perspective, to pick on Florida, I am unable to find any exemptions to requiring a CDL-A if you are over 26k GCWR (or combo of) or the 10k trailer scenario outside of basically having a dedicated living quarter component, occasionally travel for motorsports without sponsorship, farm use, or a UHaul like straight truck for personal items. Excluding more edge case scenarios that don't really apply to a normal random individual.
Unless I am missing it, no where in the Florida CDL laws does it say that you have to be over the weight limits AND for commercial purposes, I only read that it is based on the weights. This link has links directly to the applicable Florida laws directly.
https://www.flhsmv.gov/florida-highway-patrol/commercial-vehicle-enforcement/safety-enforcement/cdl-enforcement/
My take is that basically nowhere will enforce it unless the officer is really ticked off and looking for every thing that can stick. The officer can be having bad day before meeting you is how I look at it, but I don't normally haul trailers that would put me at risk, and the one big enough has a living quarters to it.
SoloWalrus@reddit
That's actually a really interesting example, here's florida:
Compared to say colorado which says:
Notice how colorado says any "commercial" vehicle but florida just says "any vehicle"? I would not have guessed that the licensing laws in florida are stricter than colorado, but the way that reads to me is that in florida it's any vehicle over 26k regardless of use but in colorado it's only vehicles over 26k that are used for commerce.
Thank you for the example that's the first one I've looked at that drops the word "commercial" and just says "any". Of course, legislative intent matters and there can always be clarifications elsewhere that we're missing.
SoloWalrus@reddit
That's actually a really interesting example, here's florida:
Compared to say colorado which says:
Notice how colorado says any "commercial" vehicle but florida just says "any vehicle"? I would not have guessed that the licensing laws in florida are stricter than colorado, but the way that reads to me is that in florida it's any vehicle over 26k regardless of use but in colorado it's only vehicles over 26k that are used for commerce.
Thank you for the example that's the first one I've looked at that drops the word "commercial" and just says "any". Of course, legislative intent matters and there can always be clarifications elsewhere that we're missing.
CarlosMolotov@reddit
Unless it’s recreational, my Ram 2500 (GVWR 11,700) and my horse trailer (GVWR 14,500) are over 26,000 and do not require a CDL. I can tow the fifth wheel camper (GVWR 16,250) or the flatbed farm trailer (GVWR 19,900) no CDL required for any of the combinations. Common theme, none of these are engaged commercial endeavors. You can drive a semi truck as a recreational vehicle if it has hydraulic brakes.
realSatanAMA@reddit
Adding to this, I'm pretty sure that only applies to vehicles manufactured with those features.. big buses converted into campers still require the CDL if I remember correctly
AllswellinEndwell@reddit
Nope, google HDT Rv conversions. It's common enough.
mpking828@reddit
So you are saying..... Not today Satan?
AllswellinEndwell@reddit
It's not complicated. Put a microwave in it, and a back seat jack-knife conversion, and throw a porta-potty in and you have all the things you need. That's how they do HDT conversions.
SoloWalrus@reddit
AND is being used tor commercial purposes. Every state law ive read said a cdl is needed for a COMMERCIAL vehicle over 26k lb, not for a personal vehicle.
If you arent using it to earn money, it isnt a commercial vehicle, and a commercial drivers license isnt needed. Lobbying from RV manufacturers has ensured this is the case, but there may be some hoops you need to jump through for registering and insuring.
Dualsporterer@reddit
Not true, Colorado doesn't allow it, for example. Many states have a disclaimer on the back of your drivers license specifying what the legal gvwr limit you can drive on that license, that's a good first place to check.
SoloWalrus@reddit
Here it is straight from the colorado DMV. You need a CDL for the following:
Notice how it begins each bullet with any COMMERCIAL motor vehicle. A commercial vehicle is one which is used in the support of a business or to earn money with. A private vehicle used for your own private purposes with no money exchanging hands is not a commercial vehicle as it is not used for commerce. All the requirements for class A, B, and C fall under a "commercial" license which doesn't apply if the vehicle does not fall under the criteria given above as it isn't used for commerce.
The only exception is hazmat where it doesn't necessarily say "commercial vehicle", and the CFR implies that it's any vehicle not just commercial vehicles. Now even this line is a little blurry though, private citizens are allowed to carry certain amounts of gasoline and diesel for example without a hazmat placard.
RedditBeginAgain@reddit
It varies greatly by state. RVs get special treatment because old people buy RVs and old people vote. What you say is true for about 2/3 of states. In a few you do need a CDL for a class A RV. In some there is a non-commercial license that skips some CDL requirements but lets you drive large non-commercial vehicles.
In any case, this is clearly a truck, not an RV. Sometimes it's a blurry line. People with racecar transport or horse transport trucks with living quarter space and cargo space try very hard to get them registered as RVs because they will be cheaper to register and insure and less likely to need an endorsed license. The firetruck in the photo does not have living quarters.
You are much more likely to need an endorsed license for a non-commercial truck than for an RV but it will depend on your home state.
jakthesnak08955@reddit
Don't use the lights and remove any badges and you've got a red truck you may need a specific license depending on the state with the weight of it tho.
Busterlimes@reddit
I'm pretty sure it's on the department to remove the badges. At least, that's how it works with cop cars. Once you own it, you are under no obligation to remove them.
one of my favorite automotive stories
Civil-Zombie6749@reddit
I didn't even have to click on the link. I already know the story...
jakthesnak08955@reddit
Unfortunately no, there are "rules" in place, but no laws that state the department that has them remove them and if you drive around with decals that say police and first responder and the likes thats almost a guaranteed ticket if not worse
Busterlimes@reddit
You didn't watch the video then or these are new laws. That guy wins an impersonating a police officer case in court.
jakthesnak08955@reddit
Did watch it cop lied and got the case dropped doesn't take much to see that guy got away by the skin of his teeth and was drug through hot coals until the cop dropped the ball if the entire case existed at all. they should check local laws most say impersonating an officer is against the law and good luck convincing a court/jury that the "vinwiki guy on the INTERNET said it was ok" and " I wasn't impersonating an officer i was just driving a car that labeled me as one" honestly don't matter to me in the end just gave OP my 2 cents as once again this is the internet were everything I say can be wrong and I not lose any sleep over it while someone who didn't check the local laws rots in a cell because I said it was cool
Busterlimes@reddit
I'm not saying use Vinwiki as a legal source, I'm saying cover your ass if you buy it with decals. Document the purchase and the exchange via video.
bestselfnice@reddit
Vinwiki loves to play fast and loose with truth. They're not a resource for a legal question.
Driftshiftfox@reddit
I don't mind some of the stories, but that's exactly what they are, stories. I don't believe anything any of those people say at face value.
gimpwiz@reddit
I have seen some really slapshod shit from government auctions.
302w@reddit
Your average adult doesn’t care to get charged with a crime and fight in court over a stupid decal lol.
Driftshiftfox@reddit
Vinwiki isn't a legal resource and they're just stories at the end of the day. Yeah maybe he got permission to drive the car as is, solely because he bought the car that way. But police departments talk and he would have been known all over the place. I'm certain he would be watched constantly for the slightest slip and he could face an impersonating police officer charge.
big_al_1968@reddit
Love this story! It always pops into my mind when I see a post about legally owning an ex cop car
8N-QTTRO@reddit
I would imagine that, regardless of on-paper legal "obligation," leaving the badges on would cause a lot of trouble for the owner. At the very least, they'd get some kind of shit from a local police force for impersonating an officer.
Vast-Combination4046@reddit
Usually they pull the stickers and maybe the lights.
School busses you can't register if its yellow because they don't want you kidnapping kids.
Aethereal_Crunch@reddit
full code
MeaningPandora2@reddit
Yeah, it ain't worth the hassle.
Even if you get proven right in court, going through the process is such a massive and expensive ordeal it's not worth it.
Just because you're technically correct doesn't mean you won't face consequences.
6inarowmakesitgo@reddit
Thats awesome.
ChazP02@reddit
Depends on the state, some are a lot more strict with that than others
PathfinderIsopod@reddit
Wow, what a username.
DrEnd585@reddit
I'd be questionable on motor/drive train. Usually anything first responders is best described as rode hard and put away wet. Legally yes it can be driven home and even owned in its current state, no lights or sirens on the roadway and same with the air horn typically. Insurance and registration would be i think camper? I forget specifics rn. But yeah idk if I'd personally drive an auction site piece of first responder kit home
everyoneisatitman@reddit
I have seen a lot of people buy ex gov equipment of similar size and drive it home no prob. Insurance for the trip might get interesting. Having it towed home on a lowboy/flat deck trailer would be the easiest and most stress free. There are multiple bid websites for getting a quote to ship heavy equipment. Be prepared to spend at least 5 days getting quotes. The first 3 days are what I call fuck you quotes. Then you get 2 days of normal quotes. Make sure the driver is able to have vehicle loaded. Just to give you an idea of price I recently paid $1500 to have a 28FT long Ford F650 (16k lbs) shipped from Illinois to TN. The first bids I got were $8k. Your going to need to know vehicle dimensions and approximate weight. Don't be surprised when your huge ass fire truck shows up being towed by a mid 2000s Ford F350 with a DOT number painted on the side.
TrainedCodeMonkey@reddit
How did you go about getting these quotes? I’m either shipping my brother a 1999 Ranger I’ve been fixing for him or driving it, and I’m about at the point where driving it 36 hours feels easier than trusting someone to properly ship it.
everyoneisatitman@reddit
Sign up for one of those websites I mentioned and then fill out the info for what you are shipping. Then you wait for people to check postings and they send you quotes. The first 2 or 3 days are just people throwing out ridiculous offers to see if you will take it. Expect the 1st bid to come in around $5-6k to see if you take it.
everyoneisatitman@reddit
I used Uship for the F650 and a aluminum dump bed I bought. I have also used Veritread for dozers. 3 loooonnnnnngggg ass days of driving alone would stop being fun at noon on the first day. For the cost of shipping you could have your brother come with you for a sweet road trip and then fly home. Even if it cost more than shipping the stories would make it worth it.
MountainMan300@reddit
I drove home an ex-government 1980 Ford F-600 last month. I have trucks that could have hauled it- just didn’t have a trailer equipped for it.
I didn’t know the truck was stuck in low range until I picked it up. Most miserable drive home of my life.
malac0da13@reddit
Oof what was the top speed?
MountainMan300@reddit
30 mph
sirchtheseeker@reddit
Omg that would get old
ronchee1@reddit
https://i.redd.it/nt4y2bgkwvne1.gif
malac0da13@reddit
How far was the drive?
MountainMan300@reddit
56 miles
TurboJake@reddit
A nice 4 hour drive
jamesgravey@reddit
At redline
Kazurion@reddit
burned ALL the deposits
English_Cat@reddit
Italian tune up.
h25pointo@reddit
Pictures of that f650 would be amazing 🥲
everyoneisatitman@reddit
Here it is when it was delivered.
Complex_Kangaroo1152@reddit
Man they sent you a frame and a single cab lol
everyoneisatitman@reddit
That is exactly what I paid for. I wanted a running 5.9/6speed/hydraulic disc brake truck. I was hoping the ABS module was still good but sadly rust got to that.
everyoneisatitman@reddit
I have it wadded up into a ball right now so I can scrap it. I bought it for the engine/trans/front end and rear axle. The cab was so rusty that after I took the floor mat out I could get out through the floor. I folded it up with my backhoe and put it on the scrap pile.
boostedmike1@reddit
In uk we can use old fire equipment on the road no issues as long as you don’t turn on the blues and two’s
MrVengeanceIII@reddit
The only limitation in my state are if you need a CDL and or if your using a big truck commercially. About 15 years ago there was a big trend of guys getting 2.5 ton and 5 ton army trucks as big boy toys.
66NickS@reddit
State dependent. In some states (maybe all, but I don’t know) you have to have valid registration and insurance on the vehicle if the tires contact public roadways. You may be able to get a temporary registration/trip permit for this.
You may be required to put “not in service” or similar markings and covers over the emergency lights if you drive it on the road. You may also be required to remove logos, branding, city/county names, etc.
I have a family member who owns a few vintage fire trucks for exposition, parade, demos, etc. He does a combination of towing and driving them to events depending on the distance and the event.
For a vehicle this size, you also will likely require a specialty license. In CA you would likely need a Class A or Class B with air brake endorsement. These are considered commercial licenses and have a few notable items like: - routine medical exams to ensure general health as part of your license renewal - reduced leeway for traffic violations - reduced leeway for BAC (blood alcohol content). In CA, the legal limit for a regular driver over 21 is 0.08%. For a commercial driver (even if not in a commercial vehicle) the limit drops to 0.04%.
chondamx@reddit
Now hear me out, I’ll make you a deal on this very pedestrian brush truck 😄
ArtistAmantiLisa@reddit
YOU CAN ONLY DRIVE IT IF YOU MAKE THE LIGHTS BLINK. And I get to honk the horn.
When my two boys were young I’d take them to the local fire station every few months. The firemen were great about putting them in the cab and letting them play with stuff. I stood next to the Fire Captain and we watched all this. One day I said, “At what age do they get tired of big vehicles that make lots of noise?” Then I looked at him. “Why am I asking you?” He snickered.
ArchangelJuicy@reddit
I've seen a resent video on social media that someone used an ex- ambulance and a tow rig to the drag track
netechkyle@reddit
A buddy of mine had more than one old meat wagon converted over to transport DJ equipment, they were crazy cool to demo.
ArchangelJuicy@reddit
Sweet
OliveAffectionate626@reddit
Don’t know if I’m right, but I was told that the only thing you can use old fire trucks for is parades. Can’t drive it around on the weekend for fun.
ClassicModifier@reddit
Most states require some version of a commercial license to operate that on public roadways. The cost in this is less up front and what it is going to take to keep this over the road. Constantly keeping it charged. All of the operating systems on these are hand built 1 at a time and there is not a “dealership “ to just take it to you are headed to some form of commercial maintenance facility like Peterson cat or the like. Then are usually well maintained but all of the miles are hard short runs. Work out use long down. The power plant and transmission combo are also key. Cummins and cats are way better than a Detroits
Fearless-Quarter1530@reddit
Don’t forget using the siren or lights in California
Fearless-Quarter1530@reddit
You good driving as long as it’s not a hooking ladder in that case you need a fire equipment endorsement in California California but if it’s got air brakes, you may need a class B license
spamus81@reddit
For what its worth, these things are historically junk. Fire trucks, like any other vehicle, have brands that are more or less reliable. E-ONE is a manufacturer with more than a few types of gremlins over the years, although their power trains tend to be decent.
ouikikazz@reddit
Lemme piggy back here....eone is absolute ass...Their trucks are absolute garbage, my knowledge is they piece meal their stuff, which is fine, but if you need replacement parts for older vehicles... Good luck with that
mpking828@reddit
Piggy backing on your back. Our local department bought a new tanker. It hasn't moved for something like since we purchased it 9 months ago. Something about the transmission leaking, and they are awaiting Eone to replace it. (Backorder, months to go)
pogoturtle@reddit
They had nice engines though. If you can find them with the detroit 8.3 they go for good money
spamus81@reddit
Yeah our issues were always more electrical. Sensors going off constantly, missed shifts, not wanting to go in gear, etc. Can't think of a single physical problem it ever had
EverSeeAShitterFly@reddit
Rosenbauer in the EU is great, in the US it’s hot garbage (despite marketing efforts that try to portray otherwise).
E-One is definitely a budget manufacturer. They’re generally fine, but you can notice the differences when you put them next to a rig from a better manufacturer.
redflamehot@reddit
I work at a rosenbauer dealer in the US and they are struggling with QC HARD. They are growing rapidly and struggling to keep up. Right now they are 2 years out on new orders, but i hear pierce is at 2-3 years depending
spamus81@reddit
Ours have had hellacious electrical gremlins. The pierces problems are all minor. Window cranks falling off, trim pieces a little loose. Ive never had a function issue with them
realsnokng@reddit
Regardless of the outcome, I'm jealous of you as I would love one if these (including all the problems). Best of luck!
AnAngryMuppet89@reddit
What website is this?
CummingOnBrosTitties@reddit (OP)
renebates.com
WideAd2738@reddit
Cut the wires at the lights and tape tf over the light/siren controller and you’re all good
redflamehot@reddit
I work on fire trucks for a living. Owning and driving it really wouldn't be difficult. It's probably a Detroit or Cummins with an Allison automatic. However: if you want it to pump water you are in for a really expensive time. The pump is driven off of a t-case and odds are it being at auction and not being donated/sold to another fire dept means that it is completely unusable for fire fighting and not worth repairing. A new T-case from hale is about $10-15k by itself. It could be a darley of waterous as well there will be a tag on the pump panel with make and serial number. Also remember: 4th gear on these is a 1:1 gear to power the pump. They will do highway speeds, but they aren't happy about it. If you have any questions feel free to DM me I can walk you through what to kind of look for
jkelnhofer@reddit
This person seems like a good resource. I bought a used 1994 Peirce Quint 75'. I was able to get Historical plates and registration here in CA and have it insure with Hagerty for a reasonable rate, but they wanted it stored inside or else they wouldn't write the policy. Luckily I have a barn that it fits inside, so all good there. If I was able to do this in CA, I would imagine other states would be easier in most cases.
My wife and I take it to community events and fundraisers like Think Pink, School fundraisers, and other NPO functions to fly flags (we cannot charge for it or else it turns commercial and Hagerty won't insure it). I had our local chaplain reach out to me to see if we could do veterans funerals because apparently out local dept trucks are too busy. I got pretty lucky with mine, the guy that I bought it from had put new tires and other mechanical updates. It fully pumps, everything works and the only thing the Dept took out was the badging and the radio equipment, but everything else was in there.
We had a lot of fun with it, my Son is a firefighter (engineer) so he really enjoyed working on it with me. He's since moved out and we're probably going to put it up for sale, it's just a matter of finding the right person.
redflamehot@reddit
A pierce with a working pump! Nice! Thank you for the kind words by the way. Honestly this is a dream job of mine and it kind of fell in my lap. Currently working on a 2000 smiel 75' finishing up a pump job
Brilliant-idiot0@reddit
i see one guy that owns one and he is always trying to find a place to park it.
indimedia@reddit
Insurance is your biggest hurdle
PckMan@reddit
Not entirely sure and it can vary from one jurisdiction to another but in some cases you can maintain the look whereas in others there are some things you have to remove to ensure it's not confused for an actual emergency vehicle.
42ElectricSundaes@reddit
lol who’s gonna stop you?
SendMe_SmallBoobs@reddit
I've driven an old fire truck. Don't use the lights or siren, and cover the logos. CDL is probably required.
JoeUrbanYYC@reddit
My concern would be whether it is legal to park at your house if you live in a town or city. Of course if you live rural that would not likely be a problem.
Dontshootmepeas@reddit
Surprised no one's mentioned this but it probably has air brakes. You need an air break certification at the minimum to drive it. In Connecticut they call it a Q class license it's specifically for fire trucks.
716econoline@reddit
We had one. Was a bunch of fun. The city did end up having to put a law on the books from stopping us from parking it in front of our house.
Also, found out it's fairly illegal to get water from fire hydrants to spray people with. And in ny no CDLs for historical vehicles
hunteqthemighty@reddit
In Nevada you need to follow CDL rules if it’s over the CDL weight. If it’s under, then you don’t need anything else. We have a special “fire truck” plate for privately owned fire trucks. Just need an, “out of service,” magnet or sign over where the department logo is on the doors, the front of the truck and the back of the truck. Sign is allowed to come off for filming, photography, parades, etc..
Source: I do a little brokering of fire engines for the film industry in Northern Nevada. We have access to 114 privately owned apparatus.
fnordfnordfnordfnord@reddit
Move to Texas, title it as an RV. You don’t even need a special license anymore.
Sticky_Gravity@reddit
I know Rene when I see it
PhysicsAndFinance85@reddit
Take any official markings off. Aside from that, have fun. Since it's for personal use, a CDL is not required. I own an AM General M939A1 and have never even had any questions asked. I looked into this thoroughly before I bought it though, due to the air brakes and weight.
ErrlRiggs@reddit
Depending where you live, city ordinance can ticket or tow you for length and class of vehicle. Buddy of mine bought a bus and he couldn't park it anywhere without tickets
mcbergstedt@reddit
It’s so cheap because the parts for them are ungodly rare and/or expensive.
Old Fire trucks are one of those things where you’ll need to buy 2-3 of them and butcher the spares to keep one running.
fjam36@reddit
You may need a CDL license but if it ran, you’d be fine driving it to your property after the purchase. I can’t tell if it has a ladder but if it does, look for a tag that says if it is certified or not.
Alextryingforgrate@reddit
Im pretty sure impersonating FD is also a felony. Best to just tow it to where ever you need it until you either remove the red flashing lights or cover them when driving the truck.
jakthesnak08955@reddit
Just like cop cars, remove the badges and police lettering and don't use the lights, and it's fine
KamakaziDemiGod@reddit
And if it's a vintage fire truck or police car, often they are allowed to have the lights and the paint job because it's clear they aren't impersonating the police of FD, unless you think you've time warped back to the 50s, as long as they aren't trying to pull people over or use the lights to get through traffic
Boxofbikeparts@reddit
I've seen trucks like this converted into race car transporters before. I don't think it's a simple project or even worthwhile compared to getting a trailer, though. It would look cool with a sweet custom paint job.
realsalmineo@reddit
You should visit the SPAAMFAA website and contact the folks in your local chapter. They will be able to tell you the local regs regarding driving a vintage fire apparatus.