Do you guys let your cats outside?

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Serious-Library-2664@reddit

my cats have a microchip cat flap so they can do what they like. when they were younger they spent a lot of time outside but now that they’re older they tend to spend more time inside. everyone i know (that has a cat(s)) lets theirs outside too.

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ianjm@reddit

Americans have very strong opinions on the outdoor cat thing, but the difference is that cats have been part of our ecosystem for 3,000 years whereas they've only been in America for the last 300.

Cats here do kill a lot of birds still, but whatever damage they could do has been done, and a balance has been reached.

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FuroreFury@reddit

What’s the easy fix to keep a cat indoors and never to experience life outside ? I couldn’t think of anything more cruel or is it to cage all the birds for their protection? Why do you value birds more than cats or mice even ? I live in the uk there are no birds endangered from extinction, they build there nests high they can fly, I feed my cat very well she’s not interested in eating birds she’s actually scared of them when they cluck

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stephy1771@reddit

—Build a catio or enclose a section of garden —Leash/harness-train the cat (our old lady has adapted well to this) —Keep them inside and provide toys, scratchers, cat trees or ledges, etc to fulfill their activity & stimulation needs

It is not hard, and 99% of cats do just fine this way.

Swordfish1929@reddit

Declawing is mutilation for cats. It's like cutting off the all their fingers and toes at the knuckle, it's just evil.

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Aggie_Smythe@reddit

It’s not like cutting their toes off at the first knuckle, it actually IS cutting off their toes at the first knuckle.

It’s illegal in the UK.

dannydrama@reddit

Not always but there are a few different reasons, from people not letting the state know when they have seizures to just driving with no licence etc. I've just noticed the big difference between the American and UK attitude towards it.

My cats are always outdoor cats but I have to say that a few years back one was attacked by a fox and nearly died as a result

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rainaftermoscow@reddit

Off leash dogs. Foxes. People.

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cuckoosong@reddit

Oh my GOD and thru think it's their job to be the Morality Police in this, as in so many other things. I see SO MANY comments of ppl saying they lock their cat IN THEIR ROOM if they live with roommates. Like jesus christ that's so cruel to me. But if you let your cat outside they will act like you're personally murdering the entire bird population of the uk plus putting your cat in mortal danger

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moon_peach__@reddit

God you have phrased it so accurately that Americans always think it’s their job to be the Morality Police on everything - what’s especially infuriating about this is they impose these morals on the entire rest of the world with no regard or understanding for the fact that our culture and environment is different. Seeing Americans tell Europeans that they’re abusing their cats by letting them go outside is just insane to me.

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me1702@reddit

I find the whole “destroying the ecosystem” argument perverse.

Most Americans live in dense cities with urban sprawl as far as the eye can see. They drive polluting vehicles everywhere and any other form of transportation (including walking) is almost taboo. Goods are delivered door to door by yet more vehicles. The food supply is heavily industrialised. And yet, apparently it’s the cats that are destroying the ecosystem.

FuroreFury@reddit

No I just don’t wash them , equally effective 😀

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stephy1771@reddit

It is not equally effective. This issue has been studied a lot in North America & solutions have been tested (at Powder Mill). You’d have to smear mud on windows for the dirty window approach to work.

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FuroreFury@reddit

Yep , you underestimate how dirty my windows are 😂🤷‍♀️

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stephy1771@reddit

American here. (I’ll ignore the fact that most European ecosystems are super destroyed and/ or heavily modified by humans (for far longer than in the Americas). And, all the over-hunting in the past…)

So, out of all the different threats to wildlife & ecosystems that are out there, keeping pet cats indoors is one of THE EASIEST threats to reduce because we each have direct control over it. Everybody can simply keep their cats indoors and immediately have an impact on local wildlife populations. (The other very controllable threat is window collisions!)

Land use decisions like sprawled development, resource extraction, converting grassland or woods to agriculture, building highways, etc. are much harder to influence and fight against. Many were made decades ago so the damage to habitat was already done. It takes decades of pressuring and working with local planning commissions and similar entities to change development patterns, and you still may not win.

Why give up? Why not help the remaining wildlife survive by keeping cats indoors? So many wildlife DO use suburban habitat or parks in urban areas (especially migratory birds that pass through lots of urbanized areas on their way to Canada to breed), so domestic cats still have a big impact on native wildlife in North America despite the history of sprawl etc.

Remember that cats kill huge numbers of birds and other critters even if owners don’t see the results. Just playing—a quick swat or bite then letting the animal escape—can still be fatal for the animal because of the rapid infection that usually sets in from a cat’s teeth or claws.

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Qyro@reddit

Reddit (particularly American Redditors) have a hard time understanding that not every country is like theirs.

I’ve found myself in multiple arguments on here over the years about the role of cats in a local ecosystem, and Americans just can’t seem to wrap their heads around the fact that cats are native to anywhere.

Domesticated cats are a species unto themselves, it’s true, but they still fill the same ecological niche that their wild counterparts fill, and since the UK lost most of those wild counterparts, domestic cats have slid right into the natural balance of our ecosystem. And it’s the same across much of Europe and the Caucasus. Small cats, regardless of whether they’re wild or domesticated, can be an integral part of a natural ecosystem. They’re not always an invasive species like they are in America or Australia.

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Chemical_Pop2623@reddit

While I don't agree with Americans declawing cats etc, what you have written is absolutely not true in any way.

Cats are not native to "everywhere" and pet cats don't fill the same niche as any British animals and haven't "slid" into any natural balance.

Cats kill lots of small animals, estimated at around 260 million birds, reptiles mammals etc, and that's just in the UK.

The predator species missing from the UK such as wolves, bears etc don't eat the same things in the same numbers and cats can't replace them.

Rather than try and justify it, just be honest, you want a cat and don't really care what it gets up to outside.

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Qyro@reddit

I didn’t say cats were native to everywhere. I said there are regions of Europe and the Caucasus where small cats were native. This includes the UK. Bears and Wolves aren’t the only native predators we wiped out, we had our own populations of Lynxes and Wildcats, and they’re all gone.

It’s true that cats kill millions of small animals in the UK, but the RSPB themselves have studies that show domesticated cats have no negative impact on those populations. This is precisely because they fill the ecological niche left by the Lynxes and Wildcats we eradicated. What other animal was going to replace them? And what do you think would happen to those populations of small animals if they didn’t have any predators at all?

There’s nothing to justify or make excuses for, it just seems like you don’t realise that we had our own native small cat population that hunted the same animals, and we wiped and pushed them out the same we did with wolves and bears. Use this as an opportunity to educate yourself rather than being on the attack all the time.

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the_roguetrader@reddit

I think the bird killing is massively over estimated

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but in the past 10 years me and my daughter have cared for dozens of cats, both feral and long term pets - we also have neighbours with multiple cats, meaning there sure are a lot of felines in the area

we live out in the country on a kind of communal small holding and I spend a lot of time outside on the land - occasionally I see one of the cats hunting mice and voles and less often I see them going after birds, but they aren't the single minded killing machines that soms people think... If they were I'm sure I'd see and hear more evidence - feathers / guts / terminal chirping etc etc

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Knowlesdinho@reddit

As a lifelong cat owner and lover, I had to leave most of the cat sub Reddits because of the stupidity of many Americans that engaged with me there.

Apparently I was a bad cat owner and my cats would die young, be shot at by neighbours, hunted by predators, caught in traps etc. They simply can't understand anything outside of America.

I think you'd keep a rag doll in doors or at least have them supervised outside. Those things are very cute but also proper space cadets.

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MoonmoonMamman@reddit

If you don’t have a good reason outside of ‘it makes me uncomfortable’ (for example, you live near a busy road, your cat is partially-sighted, etc etc), I think you should consider what your cat might be missing out on. Animals shouldn’t be stuck permanently in human habitats.

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mewikime@reddit

I moved to the US from the UK 20 years ago, and have always had cats in both places. In the UK they would come and go as they pleased. But here in the US, I've lived in place where there are coyotes, bobcats (mountain lions), bears, birds and probably other predators I don't even know about. They've all lived inside. I did move to another area two years ago so we don't have any of that now, but I still see far more dead and squished animals on the roads than I ever did in the UK, and they're still used to being indoor cats so nothing's changed for them.

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SensibleChapess@reddit

Your logic is flawed on several levels.

(1) You say the 'damage is already done because cats have been here for 3000yrs'...

Well... The UK landscape is one of the most nature depleted ecosystems on Earth. That's acceptable in your book is it?

Rape has also been part of Human existence for a long time, (indeed. since far longer than domesticated cats have been destroying wildlife in the UK), so you're OK with that too are you? Just because something has been happening a long time, (though a blind of an eye in environmental terms), is no argument to think it's OK.

(2) Domesticated cats may have been around for a while in the UK, but vets haven't. Neither has pet food. Neither have flea treatments. Whereas your argument that some sort of 'ecosystem balance' may have been reached may have held true 2000yrs ago it absolutely does not hold true now.

Jump through all the mental hoops you like to create a world view where domestic cats are in any way, shape, roaming around the UK in some sort of 'balance with nature'... they are not. In the UK, being as we are so very much 'nature depeleted', we need to be doing everything we can to rectify things. The simple act of educating the masses about the very real harm that cats are doing should be being done, and done urgently.

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UnusualSomewhere84@reddit

Humans are the biggest cause of habitat destruction and loss of nature in the UK.

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SensibleChapess@reddit

Yes, absolutely... and having domestic cats and letting them out to wreak havoc is a part of our overall destructive mix.

If they have never roamed free how can it be cruel

Or is it a case of fuck the wildlife,my cat is going out ,

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slainascully@reddit

Rape has also been part of Human existence for a long time, (indeed. since far longer than domesticated cats have been destroying wildlife in the UK), so you're OK with that too are you?

Absolutely unhinged comparison

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Over-Cold-8757@reddit

What do you possibly mean that 'whatever damage could be done has been done?' By what possible metric are you evaluating this?

The UK still has a lot of endangered birds and small mammals. Our population is increasing and we are still pushing out new residential estates. We're continuing to encroach on land containing wildlife. Yes, the big threat is the development themselves, but the cats don't help. They're destroying little creatures that couldn't possibly have even adapted to the threat.

And the worst fucking part is that we don't need cats. They're doing untold damage just so you can see them a few hours a day. Until they get hit by a car, then you get another one and cry on Instagram about this totally avoidable incident and get another kitten, probably from a breeder.

God you're all so fucking basic. Nobody has any sense of responsibility anymore, to the natural ecosystem or anything else. You want a cat so you'll have one, and come up with the justification later. Ugh.

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Particular-Bid-1640@reddit

'Cats here do kill a lot of birds still, but whatever damage they could do has been done, and a balance has been reached.'

No, this is very incorrect. In this study, cats in Oxford brought home around 95 million birds, reptiles, amphibians, and mammals, hinting that they kill even more. I'm an ecological consultant, I help people to build without breaking wildlife law. We specifically have to calculate the impacts of a housing development in regards to domestic cats, and also in smaller amounts - dog walkers. So much so that large housing developments can be rejected if they're positioned near sensitive sites designated for birds. It's very under researched and our recommendations under implemented sadly. We can recommend many things but once a house is handed to the end user it's difficult to enforce.

https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440

TLDR: Cats destroy ecosystems, please keep them inside

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Cold94DFA@reddit

Balance has been reached is such a ridiculous statement.

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anonymous_lurker_01@reddit

Not true at all. The amount of pet cats in the UK has nearly doubled since COVID. No kind of balance has been reached at all. Cats in rural areas will also commonly take endangered birds.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/515381/cats-population-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

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Kaiisim@reddit

Americans will tell you cats are destroying ecosystems while they drill for oil in their national parks.

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confused_finch@reddit

Balance would have been reached if there'd be no increase in cats as pets and if other stressors on wildlife wouldn't increase, but sadly that's not the truth. There are 110 million cats in the EU, for example, and I doubt that this has been the case 3,000 years ago. There's an increase and at the same time, there's habitat destruction, lack of insects (important to rear the chicks) and places to build nests, climate change and many other human-made stressors.

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Sasspishus@reddit

cats have been part of our ecosystem here in Europe for 3,000 years whereas they've only been in America for the last 250ish, and only in large numbers for a century.

Really? I don't think we've had pet cats in such huge numbers for 300o years. Do you have a source for that?

Cats here do kill a lot of birds still, but whatever damage they could do has been done, and a balance has been reached

Yes they do kill a lot of birds but I've never seen ang research to say that they've now reached a balance. Where are you getting this info from?

The transmission of diseases is another way in which free-ranging domestic cats can impact native fauna. Cat-transmitted diseases like toxoplasmosis, rabies and feline leukemia can be a significant cause of mortality for a range of vertebrate species, from birds to the Iberian lynx (Lynx pardinus), and can even affect marine mammals when persistent pathogens from cat faeces reach the sea in run-off.^(57)

A final way in which domestic cats can affect native biodiversity is hybridisation, which can result when domestic cats mate with wildcats or other wild cat species. In Europe, hybridisation with domestic cats poses a real risk to wildcat conservation in areas where the latter’s densities are low, as documented for Scotland^(58) and Hungary.^(59)

Notably, different direct and indirect impacts from domestic cats often occur simultaneously.^(60) For instance, domestic cats not only affect wildcats through hybridisation but also through competition and disease, and many mammal and bird species suffer the combined impacts of direct predation and indirect fear effects.^(61)"

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Pheerandlowthing@reddit

We feed the birds in our garden all year round with seeds and they’ve flourished into a huge pigeon, dove and sparrow population. We also have about 5 different cats that like the wander through our garden and in the 3 years since we moved in they’ve killed 2 pigeons and that’s it (both were within the same week).

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moon_peach__@reddit

Exactly the same in my garden!

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macrowe777@reddit

wild. Most of the common birds you'll see in English gardens have got extremely high mortality rates, like 95% of them die within the first few years already.

Scientifically that's a terrible argument.

Yep...that's the same.

The fact we destroy the environment a lot more in other ways is besides the point. Nowhere in there do they say cats do no damage. If you check their sources they actually show cats kill millions of animals.

We just kill more in other ways.

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Ur_favourite_psycho@reddit

I never said they do no damage.

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macrowe777@reddit

You said "our ecosystem hasn't been effected much by domestic cats".

Your evidence disagrees with you, it just says we ruin the ecosystem more in other ways.

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Ur_favourite_psycho@reddit

Much... Meaning it has been affected some.

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macrowe777@reddit

Your link shows there is a pretty large impact, I'm not sure millions of anything could be considered small, again just we ruin the environment in many other ways.

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Affectionate-Cost525@reddit

Scientifically that's a terrible argument

Except that's the exact argument that is seen across the board. From mammalogists who have done intensive research into it, all the way to the actual RSPB (the largest bird charity in the UK). They all say the same thing, cats rarely catch the birds that are actually strong or healthy. They catch the weakened birds who were extremely likely to already die.

Theres very little to worry about in the UK unless you're living in an area in which there's already extremely threatened animal species living locally.

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Takver_@reddit

People removing trees/gardens/habitats has a much greater impact on birds than cats, as per the RSBP.

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It is a valid point, though.

Sure.

It's still whataboutery.

It's hypocritical.

It may be hypocritical for you, but I have filled my garden with plants that support biodiversity and even greenroofed the garage and shed in the garden.

Not doing one thing that's positive simply because others do nothing isn't a good argument.

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Takver_@reddit

Sure, find me evidence in the UK cats specifically are having ecologically significant impact on our native bird populations?

Do cats affect bird populations?

The RSPB maintains that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that cats significantly impact bird populations in the UK. Each year, millions of birds die naturally, due to starvation, disease, or predation by other animals, and cats are thought to primarily target weak or sick birds

A 2008 study comparing birds killed by cats to those killed by window collisions supports this view. The research found that birds killed by cats were generally in poorer condition, with less fat and muscle mass. This indicates that cats tend to prey on weaker or unhealthier individuals, which would likely have succumbed to other causes before the next breeding season.

Millions of baby birds hatch each year, but the majority will not survive to reach breeding age. This is a natural process, as each pair only needs to successfully raise two offspring to adulthood to replace themselves and sustain the population.

Some garden bird populations are stable or increasing despite the presence of cats. For example, blue tits, frequently caught by cats, have increased by over 25% since 1966. However, house sparrows and starlings, which are also commonly preyed upon, have declined due to other factors, such as habitat loss.

https://www.birdspot.co.uk/garden-birds-and-cats/cats-and-the-decline-of-garden-birds

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macrowe777@reddit

You seem to only think cats kill birds? It's estimated only 25% of wildlife killed by cats are birds. When our previous cats were allowed out, they'd get everything.

https://www.songbird-survival.org.uk/help-birds/help-birds-at-home/protecting-songbirds/pet-disturbance#:~:text=Over%2027%25%20of%20UK%20households,practical%20solutions%20for%20cat%20owners.

https://www.arkwildlife.co.uk/blogs/articles/how-to-stop-cats-killing-wildlife#:~:text=Estimates%20suggest%20that%20UK%20cats,predation%20can%20be%20significantly%20reduced.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/14/cats-kill-birds-wildlife-keep-indoors#:~:text=But%20cats%20are%20prolific%20hunters,Lyall's%20wren%2C%20Traversia%20lyalli.

Fundamentally your interpretation of your own evidence is flawed.

Saying they don't have a "significant impact", does in no way say they don't have an impact. It is very true our, human, decimation of our environment is far worse than the effects of cats...that just means we should stop being c***s too. But even your article does not dispute cats have an impact...and when keeping cats indoors has multiple other benefits without cats really caring, it's an easy step to take.

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me_its_a@reddit

The RSPB no longer make this claim. They removed all their text and oages from their website about cats a few years ago. The only mention you'll find, is from a PDF on their community forum from about 15 years ago.

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macrowe777@reddit

They all say the same thing, cats rarely catch the birds that are actually strong or healthy. They catch the weakened birds who were extremely likely to already die.

Cats don't just catch birds.

Theres very little to worry about in the UK unless you're living in an area in which there's already extremely threatened animal species living locally.

Pretty much all of the UK has threatened species.

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Less_Mess_5803@reddit

Yes, wildlife has enough to contend with without cats being left to wander and kill all day.

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Onnen_-_@reddit

Estimated cats kill anything from 50 - 150 million animals in the UK according to a quick search. The most populace bird in the UK is the wren, with about 22million. That means cats could easily wipe out the entire wren population several times over. Saying there's a 'balance' and wildlife groups don't think it's a problem is rubbish.

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But this is the philosophical difference - yes there’s a risk to letting them outside, but they also get a lot out of it. To a lot of people that (relatively small in a lot of the U.K.) risk is worth it.

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GustappyTony@reddit

If you were a responsible cat owner, and cared for your cat then you should be able to provide enrichment for them indoors. To say they get a lot out of it is simply accepting that you’re not looking to be that invested or put any real effort into caring for your pet. It’s essentially laziness, and the fact that you’re accepting any risk at all is selfish.

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RunningCrow_@reddit

I disagree. Recent studies back up that cats prey on the older, sickly birds. They also keep vermin populations down massively. My parents two cats are forever killing rats and mice, rarely birds. Not only that, the UK has a real problem when it comes to a lack of predators.

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alloftheplants@reddit

People always talk about birds, but amphibian populations are in free-fall in the UK. After many farms removed their ponds, the main available habitats now for a lot of them are garden ponds, in the same locations where there's high cat numbers. So far as I've been able to find there are no studies at looking at UK cat impacting amphibian poulations, but those in other countries do show they can be a major factor in declines.

Also, the RSPB study everyone loves to claim proves cats do no damage was from decades ago, when the cat population was less than half what it is now, and used a methodology that's now considered flawed (cat owner estimates of kills- turns out most cat owners hugely underestimate). The RSPB now actually recommend keeping cats in dawn, dusk and overnight. I suspect the only reason they don't recommend keeping cats in entirely is the huge cultural backlash they'd get.

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me_its_a@reddit

The RSPB no longer make this claim. They removed all their text and oages from their website about cats a few years ago. The only mention you'll find, is from a PDF on their community forum from about 15 years ago.

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bedbuffaloes@reddit

The mortality rate in birds is 100%.

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

THIS!! I was having Talk with my dad about it earlier and he said this!! Also can we like consider the ecological damage us humans make? Like, surely we're not doing too great at it either lmao

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macrowe777@reddit

This wasn't a good argument at all. Read my reply.

Also the fact that we're so bad doesn't excuse not trying to be better too.

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The birds I get. What I hate is my neighbors cats shitting in my garden and on my driveway. I like cats but I have 2 dogs. When I take them out, I clean up after them. I am sick to death of cleaning up after other peoples pets. The cats don’t come into the back garden now because we’ve encouraged the dogs to chase them off when they see them but the front garden and the drive way still get regular attention

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x-ThatGirl-x@reddit

i agree. also i feel like personal preference too, if someone has had to deal with the death of a cat caused by someone hitting them with there car, they’ll probably choose to have an indoor cat, if they decide to get another cat. me personally i think cats should be allowed to be free. but i understand if people decide against that.

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

Yes! I get the fear of losing a cat and stuff, I was asking my dad about it earlier and we genuinely had a good conversation about it, talking about both sides of the argument

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setokaiba22@reddit

Lived near a main road for years and our cats have been fine

Not saying it’s wrong either but it can be avoid an accident

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Great_Tradition996@reddit

I think having cats near a main road actually teaches them road sense. My nan had cats all her life and lived on a really busy trunk road into the city centre. She never had a cat hit by a car. My mum lives on a quiet cul-de-sac but off a fairly busy road. She’s lived there for 35+ years and has also never had a cat get hit by a car.

My auntie has had 2 cats since she moved to rural Devon. She lives on a country lane that has a handful of cars a day. Both of her cats got hit by cars (one died; the other needed quite major surgery).

As a non-cat owner who's fed up of removing the shit of other people's pets from my veg beds, I feel it's about time we made the cultural shift towards restraining cats to their owners' homes.

Tomokin@reddit

I had forgotten we had a neighbours dog that used to wander the street. Nowadays it wouldn't be long before the dog warden would be called.

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Twacey84@reddit

Yeah, my dad’s old dog used to roam the neighbourhood too. In fact sometimes local kids would even knock on to see if the dog could be let out to play 😂

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thetechguyv@reddit

Yes exactly, that's why when we moved I decided enough was enough. For his own good. I won't ever let my cats free roam again.

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TremendousCustard@reddit

Also catproofed our garden - I'm glad we did. Someone the next close over had their cat return to them with tape around it's paws and tail in a lot of distress the other day :(

The mesh cost me about £150, the brackets cost £90 and the sunproof cable ties were about £10 and it saves me worrying about my babies. Worth it.

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tiggytigtigtig@reddit

A company quoted me £2,200 to have this done! I really should look into DIY’ing it. (And it’s not a big garden).

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LongjumpingLab3092@reddit

We paid 2k for our catproofing 😂 we suck at DIY and figured it was worth it for the peace of mind of it being done properly. They did it in 3-4 hours and will come back to fix it if we ever have issues :)

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Smilingpiranha@reddit

Depending on what style of cat proofing that was that's possibly not too bad.

We cat proofed our garden a few years back to stop our Siamese and Bengal from being able to roam, but we didn't like the look of the mesh/netting systems (felt they made the place look like a prison camp) so we opted for the wooden rollers from Katzecure. We DIYed the install between myself, my dad and my father in law. Appearancewise they blend in with our Japanese themed garden, and we've never had an escape.

We had some neighbourhood cats get in the first week we installed them, they couldn't get back out and were waiting patiently by the back gate the next morning to be released back to the wilderness, knowing it was ill-advised to venture in again.

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ebonycurtains@reddit

We have the netting and no plants yet and our garden does indeed look like a prison yard.

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panicattackcity91@reddit

I’m wanting to do this so my cat can go outside do they actually work then?? X

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Fickle_Hope2574@reddit

I bought netting off amazon, and its been up for a decade. Only time there was a issue is when there was a big storm a couple of years ago and a roof tile came off snapped some of the netting but was easily fixed.

We caught a neighbours cat once. 😞

He was walking along the top of the fence and jumped over the catproofing from the top but couldn’t get out again. Mine went into meltdown so I knew there was a strange cat in there and got him out safely- But something to bear in mind!

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ninja_nor@reddit

Hey, yes it works. I’ve got the same as over the years I’ve had diabetic cats, blind cats, asthmatic cats, you name it haha and I foster for the RSPCA so they can’t go out. I got the stuff from a company called Protecta pet but it is basically the same, the brackets are the expensive part everything else is literally just netting and cable ties. I don’t work for them or anything so not an AD.

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picklespark@reddit

Would love some more tips on doing it DIY! What sort of mesh did you use?

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IdeletedTheTiramisu@reddit

It’s not hysteria, it’s objective scientific evidence that cats allowed outdoors 1) face many risks and have shorter lifespans and 2) have a huge impact on native wildlife. The hysteria comes from people who willfully ignore the data as well as plenty of firsthand stories of cats being hit by cars, poisoned (accidentally or purposefully), killed by dogs or other predators, etc.

Follow a vet or a wildlife rehabilitator for a while and you’ll see many cases of bad things happening to cats and wildlife.

Yeah definitely sensible to try keep them in at night I imagine that massively reduces risk of injury.

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RealisticOwl9184@reddit

Same. My husband’s childhood cat was killed by a car and my childhood cat narrowly survived getting hit by a car, broke his leg and had bolts in it for a while and had to be on cage rest which he absolutely hated. Horrible.

My cat is indoor, he was a stray kitten who moved in with us. He was completely filthy and riddled with fleas and worms. We got that sorted and now he’s happy and healthy, and doesn’t go out.

I don’t judge people who keep outdoor cats, but personally I couldn’t do it.

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PM-ME-YOUR-DIGIMON@reddit

Ahh that’s so sad, cage recovery sounds awful!

Good for you for saving a stray :) not everybody would

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MasterpieceUsed4862@reddit

Yes! I lost one of my cats at 10 months old. He wasn’t inside when I woke up which is unusual. We had a call from a vets that evening that someone has handed him in. That person didn’t leave details so I couldn’t thank them, as knowing was much better than not knowing. I kept his sister inside from that moment on. I now have 2 other cats who have spent time outside, but under supervision. I can’t go through that heartache again.

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PM-ME-YOUR-DIGIMON@reddit

Yeah it’s just too sad, you can teach a cat road sense so it’s just a gamble every time they go out.

I hope your current cats live long happy lives :)

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LiverpoolBelle@reddit

Exactly this. Plus I wouldn't want cats to shit in others gardens and potentially harm any poor birds:(

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PM-ME-YOUR-DIGIMON@reddit

Same, one of mine is obsessed with feather toys and she’s really quick so it’s likely that she would kill birds if she went outside.

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Yes of course, why wouldn't I

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

If you look on my account I posted to r/cats and people are just talking about the ecological damage and stuff, it was properly confusing/annoying me so I wanted to come to askuk about it

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SnooRegrets8068@reddit

Well yeh look at my downvotes lol, despite it being allegedly a UK sub

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SaaryBaby@reddit

There are the US Reddit Indoor Cat Militia imo. Lol. Seriously some people with very strong opinions, no compromise, very very US centric. No ability to see other ways of doing things. Going on about the shit long lives their cats have. Will get off my soap box now. :)

No offence to UK indoor cat people who are generally more reasonable and less opinionated!

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

Yes! UK indoor cat people are way more reasonable and understanding! I've loved reading every single one! (Tbh might have to do that lock post because there's so many answers in its blowing up my damn phone lol)

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SnooRegrets8068@reddit

Just ignore the US lot, they don't know what they are talking about with regards to the UK situation and seem to think its the same.

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SaaryBaby@reddit

Oh God I can imagine!

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palimpsest2@reddit

Yeah don't even bother going to cat subreddits with questions about outdoor/indoor cats they are majority Americans who rabidly believe letting cats outside is a form of animal abuse. They genuinely believe cats who go outside have an average lifespan of like 2 to 5 years (lmao I saw someone even commented that exact thing to you on your post) which is a statistic they love to shove down people's throats but it has absolutely no source whatsoever. The large majority of people in the UK who own cats let them go outside in some capacity so do they think all these cats in the UK are only living to 5 years old like come on mate 😭

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

LMAO literally, my waffles is 11 in a month and she's as beautiful and chonky as ever (we're putting her on a diet because she's been eating too many treats and stealing the neighbors food, luckily she isn't that chonky)

This is her asleep in her bed in my room (scuse the mess lol)

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palimpsest2@reddit

Omg lovely girl! That's hilarious actually one of my cats has the same colouring as her and she even has a bed in that exact same space in front of the radiator!!

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

NO THAT'S SO CUTEEEE!!

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As far as them killing birds, I think the RSPB believes that pet cats don't have a major impact on bird numbers in the UK.

Then you'll know the RSPB also communicated to members more recently acknowledging the issue of cats killing birds.

And is this because of a change in the scientific consensus or to appease the rising amount of people importing over American pearl-clutching about cats?

There's no reason they should be allowed to unnecessarily kill well over a hundred million birds a year in the UK

If you care so much about these birds, then I assume you've taken all the windows out of your house? Since windows kill about as many birds as cats do.

here's been research worldwide about non-native cats being a disaster for native ecosystems, but somehow cats in the UK are a special case?

Domestic cats have lived in Africa, Europe and Asia for thousands of years, and have been free roaming in that time, and also generally expected to catch much of their own food until recently. If they were an actual danger to native wildlife species, they would have done their damage a thousand years ago.

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me_its_a@reddit

Due to changing scientific consensus.
Just because there are bigger issues causing bird decline in the UK, doesn't mean we should ignore other causes.
Yes we have native wild cats here but they existed in much smaller numbers at lower density. Their numbers don't depend on pet owners deciding they want a cat and then unleashing them on the local wildlife. Cat ownership was already high but took a jump in the last 5 years so it's valid that the issue today is worse than its ever been. The native cats also don't have safe homes and a constant source of food, and have to battle as part of the ecosystem to survive.

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Shubbus42069@reddit

Due to changing scientific consensus.

would you mind sharing this?

Just because there are bigger issues causing bird decline in the UK, doesn't mean we should ignore other causes.

its not about ignoring it, its about pointing out that people that use bird deaths as a criticism of outdoor cats dont actually care about birds.

Yes we have native wild cats here

I was talking about domestic cats, which have been in Britain for around 2,000 years

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me_its_a@reddit

There are so many examples to be found published in the last 15 years. You can even find the text from the recent RSPB message acknowledging the research pointing to the local and worldwide issue of cats.
Fair enough. There are a lot of us who care about our wildlife and would like to make any changes we can to help it. And, for instance, seeing local cats hanging around the bottom of our trees to kill the fledgling blackbirds (which must go to ground before they learn to fly) makes me so cross. There's none of this "oh they're just killing the weak" because a strong fledgling still has to go to ground and it'll still get killed right away. They're not doing it to survive, or even eat in many cases. They're just being allowed to kill so many millions of animals for fun.
They may have been, but the cat population then was quite a bit different from what it is now. That may make a difference in how much effect they have on the wildlife.

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Particular-Bid-1640@reddit

The RSPBs decision to say that is very confusing. Cats kill \~270,000,000 animals a year in the UK and I greatly disagree with their statement, it doesn't line up with the data.

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anonymous_lurker_01@reddit

This guidance is outdated. There are now nearly twice the amount of cats in the UK than there were pre-COVID. This is no longer the view of the RSPB.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/515381/cats-population-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/

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TimeNew2108@reddit

Don't lock up your cats. They need to be free. If you don't want them hunting then put a bell on. At least they can still try. Mine currently spends summer catching crickets.

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knityourownlentils@reddit

Mine is too stupid to go out. She’s a liability.

She runs straight into the road without looking, stands behind cars reversing into driveways and goes into strangers houses on a whim.

She is now kept in where she’s safer. Photo attached of her hiding from me:

My cat is from a country where it's normal for cats to be housecats unless you're very rural (so basically barn cats). So it was never something I had to think about until we thought about getting him a companion.

Apparently most shelters don't let you adopt as housecats in the UK. Which I'd get if you were trying to adopt a cat that's already used to the outdoors, but I'm not sure why it would matter for new kittens

I didn't, no.

I lost my 18 year old cat about ... 8 years ago? But she was strictly indoor.

It was partly because I wasn't about to be on the schedule of an indoor/outdoor cat and partly because letting them out is both unnecessary and can be dangerous.

I hardly know anyone with an indoor/outdoor cat that didn't have a cat go missing one day or that didn't have a massive vet bill because it got hit by a car or attacked by a dog or got into a fight with another cat or got poisoned by something.

Didn't fancy either of those things. She didn't pine to go out, we took her out once and she zoomed back in at high speed (same as the other one who died younger, but had health issues anyway) and was a lafy of leisure, haha.

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WittyLanguage5172@reddit

Mine always could go out, did their business, pretended to chase birds but actually never really went out

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BigAssignment7924@reddit

Yes. I keep a window open 24/7 and she comes and goes as she pleases. If you're not going to let your cat out then don't get a cat.

Keeping cats locked up indoors is cruel and unnatural.

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mira2345@reddit

Cruel and unnatural? Are we in the Middle Ages?

Whereas letting them out to be hit by cars and die alone with eyeballs and ins testi as hanging out is not… sure sure.

Inner_Farmer_4554@reddit

My much loved cat was run over by a car (score one for indoor only). Unfortunately she was almost identical to a neighbour's cat, so they assumed she was theirs and disposed of her. I didn't know.

But as I trawled the neighbourhood looking for her I was stunned by the number of people that interacted with her on a daily basis (she was very affectionate!).

"Yes, we know that cat, she usually comes round for pets and scritches at 10am. We missed her this morning and yesterday..."

"Oh, yes, she's my friend! Always on the doorstep around noon wanting a cuddle!"

It appears she did a daily loop of pensioners on our estate before coming home in time to run downstairs to greet me when I got home.

She may have died too soon, due to the car, but being an outside cat she lived her best life!

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mebutnew@reddit

I find it unusual that cats are the only pet we allow out to 'do whatever they like', they are not 'independent', they are a domesticated pet you are (supposedly) responsible for.

Cats kill an inordinate amount of wildlife. If they were wild we'd consider them a pest and something that needs to be controlled. That's ignoring the fact they also spend their day shitting and pissing in other people's gardens.

It's responsible to keep them indoors, like literally any other pet - I find it strange that this isn't how most people think.

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SuperHeavyHydrogen@reddit

Absolutely mine go outside. I’m not near a busy road and they’ve got plenty of open country nearby. They go off and have adventures, get plenty of exercise, climb trees, eat mice, do their normal cat things, or they just sit inside and chill if they prefer. In fact they do that a lot. But at least they’ve got options.

It is possible to keep a cat indoors but they will need plenty of things to climb, scratch, play with, hide in or sleep on. You can’t keep an active, agile creature in a small house with nothing to do and expect good results. Adopting an elderly cat, maybe, they aren’t nearly as active. That might be a good proposition for someone with a house or flat with nothing outdoors access.

I love my cats plenty, I’ll be absolutely devastated when they die.

Our cat goes out. He has a cat flap so can let himself in and out. We do live on a very quiet road though and thankfully he has little interest in going further than the garden.

He's older now so mostly does stay indoors, especially in winter. He still loves going out though and it would feel cruel to keep him indoors. When he was a kitten he couldn't wait to go out. It felt so cruel keeping him indoors until he'd had all his immunisations.

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Apidium@reddit

Honestly no. When I was a kid my can vanished one day. I spent months looking for her. It took me years to get over it. The local council only kept corpses for a week so every week I would ring them to ask if they had her. I walked around everywhere I could think calling her name and shaking cat treats.

A lot of folks have dogs. I know folks whos dogs got to a cat in their garden before they did. It happened to my nana with her dogs. By the time she got out there it was too late. She tried anyways. The experence traumatised her.

No other pet is just allowed to fuck off unsupervised, fingers crossed they come back. If it's a pet cat then I don't think it's appropriate to just hope they come back and if they don't have no idea what happened to them. If its a working cat fine I guess but I quite like cats and would prefer eveyone treated them like a pet.

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

I remember discussing missing cats with my dad, obviously it depends on the age but when cats get near to the end of their life they actually "go missing" (they find a quiet place to essentially pass away), I totally understand the fear though and I do not blame you one bit! As I've said before it's all down to experiences and those things ^^

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AnyOlUsername@reddit

My parents cat was 19 when she went out for the last time. She stayed close to home for the later years and we assumed (based on her age) that when she never came back it was to pass away somewhere.

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Yes.

I have one who will disappear for hours on end, to the point of I’m convinced she has a second family.

And I have another who prefers to sit indoors by a wide open door with the option to leave but won’t go for longer than a few minutes.

Both are spayed, microchipped and up to date on their vaccinations. I didn’t let them out prior to making sure all three of those things got done.

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Cheesy_Wotsit@reddit

Mine is a rescue and already had outside 'knowledge', so continue to let them come and go as they want. Not sure what I'd do otherwise 🤔

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BovrilJizz@reddit

Of course, anyone who forces a cat to stay indoors should be forced to never go out themselves

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Honorable_Dead_Snark@reddit

Yes and anyone who forces a dog to stay indoors most of the day except for a couple of accompanied walks each day should be forced to do the same themselves.

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Tizer887@reddit

Yeah both my cats used to come and go freely through a cat flap since they were young.

Both quite different costs the eldest one used to roam the entire neighbourhood and go out on adventures and catch things as well and sometimes bring them home.

The younger one only by 2 years only ever stayed within our gardens front and back the most exciting thing she ever caught was a moth lol.

Sadly only got one cat left now the younger one who isn't young at all anymore she is 19 years old. Still going strong though her brother had to be put to sleep a few years ago he made it to 17.

We haven't got a cat flap where we live right now so she cannot go freely but will venture out if the back door is open and has been out the front once but mainly just sleeps all day and meows loudly at night lol.

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Min_sora@reddit

I don't have cats, but fucking hell am I sick of cleaning cat shit out of my garden constantly. Nothing seems to drive them away. I used to like cats and now I wish they didn't exist.

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dee_dum_dee@reddit

Me too. It’s incredibly annoying. I wish they’d poo in the litter box in their own homes instead of my front garden.

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TSC-99@reddit

Me too. Can’t stand them.

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PuzzleheadedFlan7839@reddit

This is one of the reasons I keep my cat indoors and intend to buy a house with a garden I can cat-proof so they stay in ours. I wouldn’t like it if someone let their dog crap on my lawn. Why is it OK if it’s cats? Cat poo may be smaller (well…) but it’s no less gross.

Plus it can tempt some psychos to lay out poison… one of the reasons poisoned meat gets left out for dogs I think.

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Nice2BeNice1312@reddit

Mine are indoor cats. I used to live right next to a main road and didnt have a garden or anything to let them out. Now i have a garden and a balcony, i’m considering letting them in the garden only and with my supervision. I’m too paranoid to let them go on their own (and theyre too fucking stupid to recognise danger 🤦🏻). I’ve been taking one of them onto the balcony on a lead and he’s doing really well!

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picklespark@reddit

No, mine are indoors and they're very happy. They're rescues and had a tough start as kittens so when I adopted them we were clear they'd be inside. I constantly see posts on local groups about cats being killed on the road, injured, poisoned, etc and there's no way I'd let my girls out. I have several cat trees, high spots, cosy places, scratching pads/posts and a vast collection of toys I rotate frequently for them. They have lots of enrichment.

I want to fully cat proof the outdoor space at the back though so they can enjoy it more with less supervision.

My dog loves being outside more than any cat but I'm not going to let him out to roam around and gamble his life with traffic.

Stop killing your own pets

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MoonmoonMamman@reddit

I grew up with cats and they were all always allowed outside. They all lived healthy lives and died on average about 15 years old.

630 cats are hit by cars every day in the UK, those are all outdoor cats.

Sure, without any issues outdoor cats have a similar lifespan but there’s a lot more outside that can harm them and they are also much more likely to get lost.

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Miasmata@reddit

I think most animals, given the choice, would prefer their freedom. So unless there is a very real and serious great to their safety in the immediate vicinity, I'm letting the cat outside. If however there was a massive main road or a large dangerous body of water for example, I'd rather just not get a cat than keep one inside. That's just my preference though.

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the-blob1997@reddit

Fr one of my cats lived until he was 18 and he would come and go as he pleased.

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bucketofardvarks@reddit

That's nonsense lol, scentific studies have shown indicators of cat average lifespan on purebred vs mixed breeds but there is no difference between indoor/outdoor habitat.

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benbristol69@reddit

630 cats are hit by cars every day in the UK, those are all outdoor cats.

Sure, without any issues outdoor cats have a similar lifespan but there’s a lot more outside that can harm them and they are also much more likely to get lost.

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DaveyBeefcake@reddit

All the experts unanimously agree, keep your cats indoors.

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bucketofardvarks@reddit

all the *american experts lol

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Admirable_Candy2025@reddit

Yes, of course, how else would they keep the vermin down on the farm?

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bucketofardvarks@reddit

Here's a study. the summary is

- get your pet neutered, intact cats live much shorter lifespans (and contribute to kitten overpopulation of course)

- encourage your cat to drink water. Renal failure is a huge killer of domestic cats

- posh breeds might live a bit less time than mixed moggies

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0278199

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Simple_Rest7563@reddit

Wouldn’t let mine outside because she’s a pedigree BSH and I’d fear that she’d get nicked (I didn’t seek her out/go to a breeder. A friend who had one wanted to live out of a caravan so we took her off their hands). She’s also dumb as rocks, I don’t think BSHs are particularly street smart.

Having said that, I’m a firm believer in letting them roam where it applies. It’s wholly dependent on the cat, in my opinion. My mum’s had 8 cats and all have led happy, fulfilling lives without injury and mostly sticking to the back garden. The dogma in the U.S. and people who post those scary articles of cats killing ecosystems in order to tell others off are just doing what Americans always reliably do: make it all about them.

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CallumMcG19@reddit

I let my cats out but not until they're large enough to fend off threats

If I live in a high traffic area I try to keep my cats inside

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Oli99uk@reddit

I think it's cruel to confine a cat to a home.

SleepwalkerWei@reddit

Bells are really bad for cats and their sensitive hearing.

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thereadingbee@reddit

Bells aren't good. And you must make sure it's a breakaway collar

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UnSpanishInquisition@reddit

Mine can't wear collars because they learned how to take those stupid things off. They should be body weight but they all manage to get a tooth under it and just pop it open. Also it clearly makes my long hair visibly uncomfortable with how to moves her fur about and left a ring of wonky stuff she couldn't groom flat.

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Cremisius@reddit

My two cats are indoor (older cat 12 y/o, younger cat 1 and a half) and I've never considered putting them outside. My reasoning being

-I want to know what they've eaten, especially if they ingest something poisonous -I don't want to harm wildlife -I live near roads -Teenagers suck -My area has a lot of outdoor cats - considering both flea transmission and fighting (my senior cat in particular is an ex stray and can get very territorial) -My senior cat needs medication 2x a day or can visibly decline in a matter of days -Why would I expose them to unnecessary risk?

I take them into the garden harnessed in the summer because they like to smell the plants (all cat safe!) and lie in the sun.

Of course in some cases a cat is never going to settle inside - there's massive value in being a guardian for a feral cat where domestication has failed for example. But barring any specialist issues... Putting a cat who can be inside outside has always felt lazy to me 🤷‍♂️

Being kept indoors can suck for a cat who doesn't have enough enrichment, but providing that enrichment is part of having a pet - or it should be.

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Cremisius@reddit

Also adding I'm in a mid-size UK city in the north :)

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SleepwalkerWei@reddit

Nope. They go out supervised in the garden but that’s it. Being hit by a car is one danger, but the danger I fear most are people. There are always warnings about someone’s cat having been killed by people (usually men). It happens too often. I went to school with boys who would decide which cat to kill after school during science class, like it was nothing. My dad and his friends partook in killing cats when they were in school, too. Meanwhile my dad, and at least one of the boys I went to school with, had cats and loved those cats. There’s just something about cats that make men enjoy terrorising them. I have also seen people purposefully run cats over with their cats too, and shoot them with BB guns for fun.

I am far too afraid of humans actively killing my cat than them being killed in an accident. So no, my cats don’t go outside. Nor will they ever.

One of my cats wasn’t socialised to go beyond the garden so he doesn’t mind not going out. My other cat was socialised to go outside, he didn’t like it too much but he was essentially forced to stay out because that’s “just how things were done” then. After not long, he was hurt by a human and luckily made it back home eventually. Since then, he’s never stepped beyond the garden by his own choice. Though we wouldn’t let him beyond there anyway.

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Ganjalligator@reddit

My cat is 1 in 3 weeks

Got a lead for him as he’s always curious around the door when we enter or leave the house

Brought him out and put him on the grass for the very first time in his life, proceeded to run back inside.

No longer curious around the door when entering or leaving

All the people in my neighbourhood let their cats roam the street and it’s seems that they have decide to hold meeting in my garden.

As cute as they are, they have render my bird feeders completely useless as not even seagulls and magpies will come near now. I wish more people were aware of the environmental disaster cats are. I do like seeing them around, but I would also like to see more birds.

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RafflesEsq@reddit

We rescued our cat in the most literal sense: she was in a tied up plastic bag in a bin, no microchip, no collar, but definitely house trained. We kept her safe while posting in the local Facebook groups and contacted local vets, but after a few weeks no one came forward. She stays inside, and has no interest in going outside except to occasionally chew some grass by the front door, and to fight her furry nemesis on the estate (we don’t allow either activity). She has all the attention, toys, and comforts she wants, and she’s very happy and healthy.

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

Lmaooo fairs, it feels so validating for people to see what I see, I definitely understand there are risks but we can't stop them, we can certainly prevent or lessen them, but life is life, I've felt so much better about letting my baby out now

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Successful_Buy3825@reddit

Yes.

They were both street cats who decided they’d rather sleep in a house than outside. It’d be cruel to keep them locked in all day

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Electronic-Fix3886@reddit

Like people, it depends on the cat and their personality.

Most want to go outside, but some can become accustomed to being indoors. Others will treat it like torture and want to frolic.

It's not easy to measure danger either and can be naive.

I lived right on a busy main road for 10 years, my 3 cats never ventured out the front. One cat in my life got run over, the nearest busy road was close but had plenty inbetween, maybe that safety barrier is precisely why he died. It may actually be safer to be as close to a main road as possible.

If you shut your parent in as they aged, telling them to stay in their chair because there are dangers outside or they could catch a virus that could kill them, that would be abuse and you'd be locked up. But some people want to stay in anyway. So it should be choice.

As they get older, and when it's colder, most cats will stay in a lot anyway.

I still remember my 19 year old cat passing away doing her favourite thing - lounging outside in the sun. Beautiful.

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ShineAtom@reddit

My cat and I live on a cul-de-sac which relieves my mind from the heavy traffic issue. Of course my cat goes out: he would be very unhappy kept indoors. With the sunny weather we have had this weekend, he wants to go out to bask in the sun asap after meals. I don't have a cat flap as the house doors are composite and I doubt the council would be happy with me cutting a hole in one! My cat does, of course, have a well-trained butler who can read the signals and let him out and in whenever required.

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Airborne_Stingray@reddit

You've got to be a very low IQ individual to be an inside only cat person.

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random_character-@reddit

Rarely see some of my cats. One vanished for four months last summer.

I just grab them whenever I can for a stroke and to worm and flea them.

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FuzzyPalpitation-16@reddit

No, she’s indoor only. She was feral when the shelter was doing their trap neuter release thing but thought she could be socialised (she also has FPV so it’s a risk to other cats if she’s let out). Anyway, her kitten life was in the shelter (a lovely one mind you, so she hasn’t known “outdoors” besides from when she was a feral kitten).

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Boredpanda31@reddit

I don't particularly like cats (i would never harm them - i just dont find them interesting or cute), but lots of houses around me have them. They're outdoor cats who like my garden best. Yay for my garden 🥳🙄

I have some friends who have indoor only cats though and they get on great.

A few years back, in one of the schemes not far from me, someone was putting out stuff to poison cats. Evil dick. I don't even know if they were ever caught!

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Scarlet-Ladder@reddit

My two rescue cats now live a charmed inside-only life. I live in a small town, but our house is on one of the main roads and I've seen far too many "whose dead cat is this?" posts on our local Facebook group. There's also a feral colony nearby, and while my cats are vaccinated I'd rather not take the risk of them picking something up from them. Both of my cats are seniors, and quite happy not to be roaming.

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Richy13@reddit

I live a few floors up in a city, so she’s got to be inside. If I lived in a town or somewhere less busy and more easily accessible for her I would let her out

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RegrettingTheHorns@reddit

I like to say to people I don't own a cat but I do share my home with one. He comes and goes as he pleases via the catflap and I wouldn't have it any other way. I understand other people have concerns and that's fine but I would rather he lived the full and happy life he has roaming free with a safe space to come home to for food and cuddles when he wants to.

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Glittering-Draw-6223@reddit

I live on the outskirts of a small northern city, its quiet near me and traffic is low in my area, my cats spend more time outside than they do inside,

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WanderingPuppy@reddit

No. I have a few reasons. The area that I live in is right near a busy road. My particular neighbourhood is over saturated with cats who I can hear on a weekly basis having fights. Every other day on my local Facebook page is another "my cat is missing" post or "we found this deceased cat" post.

My neighbours just behind me actually modified their entire garden so that it's now cat proof so their cats can go outside but only in their garden and other cats cannot get in. They did this after two massive vet bills due to cat fights.

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TheOnlyNadCha@reddit

Mine goes outside every day, although nowadays he’s not as active so he just walks around the garden and sleeps on the shed. Every morning I put a light reflecting collar with a bell around his neck so he can’t really catch small animals (I know this because there were a few times where he couldn’t wear his collar and brought me pigeons or mice - but never with the collar on). After nightfall I remove his collar and he’s not allowed outside anymore. He’s also neutered (there was no doubt in my mind that this was necessary, but it still made me feel really awful).

In 12 years he’s had a few injuries from fighting with other cats that made me reconsider whether he’d be better off indoors, but honestly I don’t think so. They are smart animals, they need nature at least as much as we do, the ability to run around in the grass, enjoy the breeze, smell all types of things, meet other cats… I cannot bring myself to keep him indoors.

I am not an outdoorsy person but I imagine being kept inside myself, and being told I don’t need trees since I can see them on TV… but no amount of toys or indoor comfort can compare with spending some time at the park, actually seeing, touching, smelling trees, grass and flowers.

So I personally don’t think it’s fair to rob our pets from it. People are supposed to take their dogs outside everyday but somehow because cats can shit in a box and are usually not as docile on a lead, they don’t get the same courtesy.

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commonsense-innit@reddit

they say outdoor city cats is akin to giving jimi savil a private office within a school

Watsonswingman@reddit

My family cats have always been indoor/outdoor cats. Maot rescue places won't let you adopt them unless you've got an outdoor space for them. Our current moggy spends much time outdoors in the summer and we tend to put him out at night if it's not too cold. He's a giant wuss of a cat and even though he's easily the largest cat in the area he's never once brought anything back and doesnt get into fights. He pounces on flowers and in the spring sits at the bottom of a tree in our garden and watches blue tits flit in and out of a nest they make in the hole every year (they know he cant get to them)

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Away-Classroom-3389@reddit

So glad there are sane people in this thread rather than Americans who are wishing death on people for letting their cats out 😂

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the-blob1997@reddit

Let my cat roam where he likes before people say he could get hit or whatever. My cat looks both ways before crossing the road I shit you not.

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The_JimJam@reddit

The family cats were always inside cats, but that's because Mittens was pretty much allergic to most things he eats. And he liked to try everything.

So to protect him, he had to be inside and only eat a certain cat biscuit from the vets. His sister Misty had no issues, but couldn't really do one in and one outdoor.

So they both just got spoiled rotten for almost two decades.

Parents have two Burmese cats, they're inside too. They also get spoiled daily.

Our cats go outside but only into our garden - one is too big to get over the 6" fences and the other is a short-legged one who can't jump that high (she occasionally misses when jumping onto the bed).

The only pain is that we got them as rescue cats and their old owner used to let them out of the window, so they had no experience of cat flaps. We tried a chipped cat flap, but the clunk noise it made when the lock disengaged freaked them out, then when we managed to get them to try and use a normal flap, the big cat (she's huge - almost 8kg) came through it too fast and literally tore the cat flap off the door and ran down the corridor wearing it like a hula skirt. Since then, they won't use it unless we tie it open with some string...which is what we have to do every day. We close it at night and they don't seem to mind.

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MountainMuffin1980@reddit

People who let their cats out are, frankly, knob heads. They decimate local ecosystems without actually being a part of it for a start. But really it's just shite how many times people post on my local area pages about dead cats they've found, or someone posting about their beloved cat who is missing.

Cats will eat trash, fight each other to injury, get injured or killed by foxes etc and cars and end up slowly dying or outright dead all the times. The numbers are pretty staggering I'd imagine.

What's the point of having a pet that's not there?

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qualitycancer@reddit

Let them? They roam free. Cats are supposed to wander

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aghzombies@reddit

I don't let my cats outside here for 2 reasons. 1 is that my younger cat is, bless her, as dumb as a stump. She would not get out of the way for a car. She wouldn't get out of the way for a dinosaur. She is not built to be outside (she knows this and is afraid of outside unless she's in her cat carrier - she has asthma and associates the vet with feeling better after 2 near misses).

My older cat is 8. I used to let her out, and she is an extremely successful hunter. Talking multiple prey brought home a day. That's not good for the environment. Also, locally there are tonned of mice and rats. They don't come inside but are outside. The council, and individuals, use poison to kill them. If she kills a poisoned mouse, she will also be poisoned. There is also a park behind my house (directly behind the back alley) where people let their dogs off leash constantly even if the dogs have no recall. I don't want to risk her life that way.

That's your lot tbh.

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bluepushkin@reddit

Absolutely not. I've seen too many dead cats on the side of the road to let my cats risk it. If you love your cats and want them to have a long, healthy life, then keep them indoors.

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machinehead332@reddit

Ours our house cats, I’m forever seeing posts on my villages local FB page about missing cats or ones that have been injured / ran over. I couldn’t let that happen to them. We also have a Maine Coon who’d probably get stolen if we let him out.

At the minute we live in a good sized maisonette but we hope to buy a proper house this year where I can either cat proof the garden or build them a catio.

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MisterWednesday6@reddit

I don't let my cat outside. When I got him, I was living in a busy market town with a roundabout at the end of my street that seemed to attract every bad driver in a hundred mile radius, and literally every couple of days the local Facebook page had a post about a cat having been hit by a car. We have relocated to a suburban area where I am lucky enough to have a garden and have set up a catio for him, but other than that he doesn't go outside; we have foxes, badgers and a group of feral cats in my neighbourhood, along with a 20MPH speed limit that is never adhered to.

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Facelessroids@reddit

It’s cruel to keep a cat inside.

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KnOcKdOfF@reddit

Mine are free to roam - we have woods directly behind our garden so they can have endless fun

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Jcgcuk@reddit

It sucks not letting your cat outside but these things suck more:

1) Kitty getting ran over by a car 2) Kitty getting cold, climbs into a car engine, owner starts engine and kills kitty 3) Kitty getting eaten by a fox or other predator 4) Kitty gets feline aids, worms, anything 5) Kitty eats a mouse or rat that has been poisoned then kitty gets secondary poisoning. 6) Kitty roams too far from home and gets lost (rare but happens) 7) Kitty gets shut in someone's garage by accident 8) Kitty gets poisoned because some people dont use bait boxes or they drink antifreeze or something. (It's possible, I had a dog die from drinking antifreeze) 9) Kitty gets "adopted" by another family that WILL keep kitty inside and you will never see kitty again.

There's probably more, those are the ones off the top of my head

Cat 3 I rescued, and she was absolutely an indoor cat. Tried to coax her out a few times, but she wouldn't go further than the neighbour's garden.

Cat 4 I got as a kitten, and started letting her out around a year old, with cat 2 who she got on with. Unfortunately she was knocked over on a busy road and killed.

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Impossible_fruits@reddit

Yes, it would go missing for days and just wander back when hungry. Someone shot it with an air rifle a few years ago. We only found out when she was x-rayed for something else.

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Danny_P_UK@reddit

My cat is an outdoor cat. I don't worry about him, as he's a double hard bastard. During his 15 years on this planet he has been hit by a car at least twice, fell off the roof of a 2 story house, jumped out of a window and gone through a conservatory roof and been in various fights with the neighbourhood cats. Every single time he has just brushed them off as a mild annoyance.

In fact the conservatory roof escapade was at night whilst we were sleeping. I obviously went downstairs to work out what the massive bang was. The little shit followed me down pretending to investigate. He had gone through the roof and then ran upstairs. The only way we worked out it was him was because he left a lump of fur on the bike that broke his fall.

He does bring in a lot of wildlife including a duck once, but I'm not convinced he just finds them dead.

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DeepSpaceNineInches@reddit

If you're sick of the presents he brings in, look up OnlyCat cat flaps, it's one of the best things I've ever bought and completely stopped the problem for me (instead they eat stuff outside, grim)

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Danny_P_UK@reddit

Yea, we used to have one of those in our old house. The new house doesn't have anywhere we can install a cat flap. The front of the house is onto the road and the rear is glass or 500mm thick walls. It does mean that all of our "gifts" are deposited at the back door though.

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MrPatch@reddit

Please close the third bracket, I'm going to spend the whole day in parenthesis

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BornSlippy2@reddit

Vet here. Letting your cat go outside is: 1. Bad for cat. World is full of dangers. We are seeing tons of cases of cats missing. They are being hit by car, attack and mauled by wildlife, caughting and spreading diseases, falling from height, being wounded and suffering for hours / days being slowly eaten by insects.

Bad for environment. Cats are treated as 'human pollution' by scientists. They are domesticated animals, they are not a part of the ecosystem any more. They murder BILLIONS of local, native species. Cats are responsible for extinction of few species already.
Convinient for the owner. Keeping your indoor cat happen requires time. You need to enrich cats environment, play daily, etc. Hard truth - it's easier to let it go outside (and hope it'll be back in one piece) than sacrifice some of your time. 99% of cats, including stray, ferrals, etc with proper care will turn into lovely, cuddly couch potatoes 😁

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Kind-Photograph2359@reddit

My 12 year old cat goes out daily, I try to make sure he's inside at night as that tends to be when he'll get into a cat scrap.

He was my wifes cat when we met and was an outdoor cat, if I'd had him from a kitten he'd be an indoor cat only.

I live on a fairly quiet road with a large drive that he spends most of his time on but I worry about him going on the road, I worry about idiots purposely putting poison etc out and there are foxes close by.

It wouldn't be fair to take away the freedom he's known his entire life but if I got another in the future I'd keep them in for safety.

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Ilovetoebeans1@reddit

Mine goes wherever he wants. We tried to keep him in for 2 weeks when we first adopted him (age 2) and he tore through the tape we had put over the cat flap on the first night! He loves sunbathing on the neighbours shed and is very happy still aged 13.

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NotThingie@reddit

Yes when we had cats we let them outside. Honestly I think the standard American view of never letting your cats outside is nuts.

I don’t have cats at the moment because I’m renting and it’s not allowed. Previously I have always let mine out. I just wouldn’t have a cat if I felt that the road was too busy though.

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Jughead_91@reddit

No, mine are indoor only! Growing up family cats lived outside and they ended up getting hurt by other cats and becoming very skittish and scared. My cats just stay inside with me. I work from home so they are never by themselves really. At first I worried about this, but reading more online it seems like this is becoming the norm, particularly since cats have an effect on surrounding wildlife and can be hurt or exposed to diseases when roaming. My ultimate goal is to get a place with an outdoor space so I can make them a catio.

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toady89@reddit

Ours were always outdoor cats, none got run over but a couple were poisoned with antifreeze by our neighbour who didn’t like cats. I’m not sure she really liked dogs either since theirs spent most of its life in their garden where they never cleaned up the shit. I was a lodger in a house with a load of cats, all theirs were also outdoor cats though they never traveled far and some are approaching 20 years old now.

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sad-mustache@reddit

I would let my cat out but I live next to a busy road so she would probably be killed by drivers.

She can go out in our little garden and then we go on walks on a lead. My partner recently thought that it's sad that she can't run around but imo she doesn't want to run, she wants to sit outside the neighbours house for hours (I think their cat died and got a new one). Other than that she really enjoys eating grass.

In summer we had picnics where she got to stare at the neighbours house for hours.

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_Harpic@reddit

Mine roam. Ours have always been feral kittens saved and raised to good health so it would make sense to let them outside. They are always chipped and sorted too.

I remember posting about cats being outside on reddit years ago and I got a world of abuse from people saying it ruins wildlife etc.

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TeddersTedderson@reddit

Big Ron is only allowed out when we're in.

We're an end terrace so he goes in the rear garden and neighbours, but can make it to the front.

We're not on a main road, but he doesn't go anywhere near the street, just sits on the front window (often comes in that way).

We're lucky that he's well trained, afraid of strangers but comes when called.

We have a family of four foxes that live under our shed. They are not a threat. He's fascinated by them, and they are not interested in eating him (Urban foxes with plenty of food to scavenge). I've seen him step over a sleeping fox 😂

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TeddersTedderson@reddit

pm_me_your_amphibian@reddit

Only on a harness in the garden. Otherwise I would never recover from scraping one up off the road, I’d never be the same, plus I like the wildlife in my garden. So very much housecats with a very cattified space.

I don’t judge anyone for letting their cats out though, I think if I lived literally in the middle of nowhere (the dream!) I’d let them out, but not near any roads.

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elbapo@reddit

Yes its part of their natural behaviour and its generally unfair to keep them inside. I say generally, because it depends on the cat/breed some are happier than others inside.

My kitty was a rescue & had been allowed outside from a very early age. She was unneutered, unvaccinated & sadly pregnant at 6 months old. Before we picked her up she had a spay/abort. We kept her in for a month with a litter tray then supervised visits to our safe locked garden. Now she has a microchipped cat flap so comes & goes as she pleases. She’d be very unhappy kept inside!

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ChartPimp@reddit

No, my cat is an absolute idiot and would immediately run into oncoming traffic. I love her very much

One of the most common causes of cat death in the UK is being hit by cars, and while I'm pleased you haven't noticed your cat becoming ill, that's anecdotal rather than evidence your cat has not been exposed to disease. Living in the city and volunteering a bit with local cat-focused organisations, I see a lot of very poorly cats and unfortunately quite a few dead ones, and many of these are hit by cars, but others are scared by fireworks, hurt by bad actors, hurt by dogs, other cats, or very occasionally by foxes, become extremely cold and become ill from exposure, are exposed to poisons, etc.

Cats in the UK do significant damage to songbird populations particularly, and while I appreciate many people like to brush that off as unimportant, it is another reason not to allow cats to free roam.

Many cats can be contentedly leash-trained or are interested in having contained garden time. I'm not at all a proponent of keeping a cat indoors just to neglect them - many people don't really understand how to enrich or entertain their pets, and cats particularly suffer from that - but the idea that letting cats out to free roam is the only way to sufficiently enrich them is not only false, but in my opinion often quite cruel.

I think many people basically think "oh, well, it's always been this way, so it's fine", but it's just not fair on the cats that suffer the consequences.

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What-problem@reddit

We kept our cat indoors for the first five years as we lived in flats. When we moved to houses, we started letting her out but she had no inclination to go far. She is 14 now and hardly goes further than the patio by our back door, and only if we are with her.

She's always been very happy though and will sometimes sit by the back door or windows to watch the birds, but prefers to find a soft, warm place indoors to curl up. She has never caught any wildlife either.

In the future, if we had another cat, we would catproof the garden. For their safety and to extend their lifetime, but also to stop other cats coming in (who start fights with our cat, and shit all over our garden whilst our cat uses a litter tray). I think it's the best of both worlds and gives so many advantages.

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edgeofsanity76@reddit

Yes. We live in the countryside

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ElectricalSystem1761@reddit

I used to in my old house but after one was shot with an air gun by some absolute %*€¥ and the other ended up with teeth marks in his skull I decided to keep them both in. Now in a flat with no direct access to a garden. Feel guilty sometimes so when I move to a place with a garden I’ll try letting them out again once they are settled.

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Academic_Rip_8908@reddit

I feel your pain, people are absolutely fucking nuts. I had a really scummy neighbour across the road who kicked my cat in the face, resulting in a bloody nose. The justification? My cat "looked at her funny".

I didn't let my cat out again until we moved a few months later, for fear for his safety.

Thankfully we now live in a much more rural and quiet area and I can let my cat out without any issue as much as he likes.

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dannydrama@reddit

Wow that's insane and would have led to some incredibly poor neighbour relations.

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WesternPear3303@reddit (OP)

This! I totally see this POV! I've never lived in a flat but I really understand it, you're surrounded by buildings and cars and that's 100% unsafe for a cat! I live in a rural area so it makes sense why I'm extremely comfortable letting my baby roam around

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nathderbyshire@reddit

I'd be surprised if there's someone in my flats without a pet we all have them. Downstairs had birds in the windows to the amusement of all the neighborhood cats

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Apidium@reddit

There are less hazards in a rural area but I think if you wouldnt let any other pet just do whatever and hope they come back then Idk why folks do for cats. They still may not come home and then you get to wonder wtf happened. I'm semi rural. My cat was also shot and I guarentee it was one of the farmers who did it. They are very 'get off my land' and would shoot a leaf if it landed wrong on their field.

I can understand why working barn cats and similar have the whole acceptable risk thing. Though I do disagree with it. There are other ways to keep mice out of your barn and in my eyes cats are pets.

I don’t let my 2 cats out because I love them and want to minimise the chances of them getting hurt. I have a catio which they use, I play with them every day to satisfy their hunter instinct. I don’t understand why people say they love their cats and then let it to do whatever they want. There is not a single day on our local groups without a post that someone found a dead cat. Why would someone be okay with this if they loved their pet?

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Public-Guidance-9560@reddit

Yep. She loves it. She doesn't like it when interior doors are closed and will let you know about it. She's very vocal. If she was locked in I think we'd probably be killed in our sleep.

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Misty_Pix@reddit

Indoor only.

There are too many dangers out there humans, cars, dogs, other cats etc.

Cats that are outdoor can also bring back diseases/worms that can affect humans too.

In addition, people forget cats can have an impact on the ecosystem such as low nesting birds etc.

However,the true reason my cat is indoors, she is afraid of outside. She was thrown out as a kitten,nearly died and now she sees outside as a danger.

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Scrombolo@reddit

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WoollenItBeNice@reddit

No - my cat is allergic to grass 🙃

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Meat2480@reddit

No, I have had outdoor cats, I don't agree with them now,

Too destructive to the native wildlife,

My cousin can track her cats,

Oh they are probably down by the underpass, catching voles etc,

What have the voles etc done to deserve that.

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RainbowPenguin1000@reddit

luala@reddit

zebrahorse159@reddit

Yes but only during daytime, I keep mine in at night for safety.

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Magicsam87@reddit

I think having s house cat is cruel... they are made for the outside...

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kittikat__@reddit

No, I’ve seen too many videos/posts about the cruelty of some people. I also live near a busy road.

Although if I lived in a house I’d definitely make a little catio or some sort of enclosure for him so he could have supervised outdoor time.

But right now absolutely not.

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shannikkins@reddit

I used to.

Then some local cats went missing, a not unusual occurrence anywhere.

A few months later a water company came to do some maintenance, opened up a manhole, and found the missing cats killed and stuffed in the grey water pipe they were checking.

They've not been out since.

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shootforthunder@reddit

I really think we need to start discussing the alternatives to getting a cat if you want to have a companion but don't want it leaving those 4 walls. It really gets me down how we have evolved to think cats are happy in confined spaces, never used to be the case, I guess the internet validates people's opinions so they don't need to think about alternatives.

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charachnid@reddit

I grew up with an outdoor cat who never got into trouble outside, but my parents have a huge garden as do all their surrounding neighbours and our cat didn't really go out the front much. Additionally my parents live in a housing estate in a village so relatively quiet.

My husband grew up on a busy main road with a long list of outdoor cats, many of whom never returned home or got hit by cars. Because of this, when we discussed getting our own cat, he said he didn't want to let it out which I agreed with. He's had too many cats die. We also live in a housing estate but people drive up and down our road at speed.

It worked out because we got our cat from a friend who works at an animal charity, friend fostered the cat at home after she was handed in to the charity because she was not dealing with cattery life well. Friend told us before we took her that she would only be suitable to be an indoor cat so we needed to make sure we were happy with that before we took her. We were, we've had her a couple years now and we agree that she is absolutely not suitable for outdoor life. She is clearly happy with us but she is terrified of every tiny noise and I don't think that will ever go away. We are going to build her a catio so she has the opportunity to breathe the outside air but that's it.

My parents disagree with our stance but our cat would die outside.

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1CharlieMike@reddit

No, my cat is an indoor only cat.

When I adopted him from being a stray the vet told me he thought he might have brain damage from either a car accident or from being abused by his original human. So I was advised to keep him in, just in case he didn’t know where to come home again.

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DeepSpaceNineInches@reddit

Mine roam free, every cat I've ever owned has. They come back for meal times and then get locked in overnight, cat flap is set to only let them out from 6am until just after 8 at night, and it won't let them in if they try to bring any prey in. They like catching rats and mice.

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squidgytree@reddit

My cat is indoor only. We live on a road with a 40 mph dual carriageway and she wouldn't last very long as an outdoor cat. The local Facebook group is full of posts about dead cats and I don't want to add to that list. I work from home so she's never alone or lacking stimulation. As an aside, I tried getting another cat for her to play with and she did not like that in the slightest so we had to re-home the new cat eventually

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Purrtymeow04@reddit

Mine were strays but since having them, I let them stay indoors but let them out with supervision. I also let them walk with a leash as they love going out

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danmingothemandingo@reddit

I have a £2k pedigree ragdoll, and I'll be damned if it's not gonna be allowed have a proper cats life of freedom. Anyone who says cats should be kept indoors should themselves be imprisoned. "there are risks outside" - same goes for humans, does that mean locking you inside is also the answer? If it really is that dangerous a place that the animal has such a poor chance of survival outside, should you have brought such a pet there. "my cat is quite happy indoors" bullshit. At most it's been defeated over time. Any cat allowed access to go outside since being little will absolutely want to continue going outside

People need to care enough about their pets to be able to imagine the world through the animals eyes. A cats instinct and purpose is to hunt for its food, fight to maintain its territory and to reproduce. If you don't like any of that, maybe you don't like cats.

I've heard it all "but ragdolls are bred to be the most docile breed, they shouldn't be let outdoors, as they couldn't defend themselves". Yet one of my neighbours summed it up "my cat ran inside and pissed itself in the kitchen when it saw your cat coming down the street". Had to hold back a smirk

Too many people only see things through their own eyes, and think only of themselves, like the cat is a furry thing I want to pet and stroke and that's its purpose.

My cat could have been given some silly regal name D suffered blow drying and a life of being dragged to shows for weirdos, instead he's out there keeping healthy patrolling his patch and keeping other wannabe kings off it. Does he come in licking his wounds sometimes and bloody from a fight? It's happened. Does it pull my heart strings that he's been beaten up and make me question for a moment am I doing the right thing? Maybe, but when I see that even while I'm keeping him in for a short while to let a wound heal properly, he's just desperate to get back out there, it reminds me that this is what they are.

Caveat: I live at the end of a close and have no fast car traffic close to my house. His roam area is all within 30 zones.

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Infrared_Herring@reddit

We have two cats and they are free to come and go as they please.

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genetic_nightmare@reddit

My boy has a 5m lead and harness, which I’ve trained him in since the day I picked him up. He begs to go outside most days and spends his time underneath a (his) bush, or basking in summer sun.

He tends to stay a couple of metres away from the door. He has caught two birds in 7 years, but I think we lost those to Darwinism more than him (RIP two pigeons).

He’s dumb enough (and pretty enough) to be taken in by anybody with food and I live next to a main road. So it was a no-brainer to lead train him 🥹

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Beobacher@reddit

I fry to make my garden bird friendly. Other people’s cats kill the birds for no other reason than fun! And no, it is NOT “just nature” in nature there would be one cat per area. We have about 10 cats in our garden. And it is not the only problem other people’s cats cause. The vegetable garden is contaminated too. If you have an outdoor cat an a fr arm or isolated single hous fine but mind your neighbours if you have some.

Just started letting our 2 year old rescue go out side after 4 months with us.

He seems to wander around a bit but he comes home a lot during the day and is usually found sleeping on our bed.

We have the back door and windows open all summer so we thought we better try him out but for now we have him back by 4pm.

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Peppl@reddit

I've only ever had outdoor cats, and I've never had to worry, TBH if a fox ever tried it on with my Ziggy theird be one fewer fox in the neighbourhood

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Our two cats were indoor-only for five years as we lived next to a busy main road in a not-great area. Then we moved to a lovely quiet suburb and had a baby. While I was pregnant we decided to trial letting them out so they would have chance to escape if they needed space when the baby came. One of our girls (who previously threw herself out of a second floor window trying to see the world) loved it and immediately went on a rat killing spree, the bodies of which she would then bring home as gifts for the baby… the other will occasionally take a turn about the garden and call it a day.

That was four years ago. Neither have had any issues and they definitely prefer roaming free. It’s also significantly depleted the local rat population, although thankfully they no longer bring them home as trophies. It definitely earned us brownie points with the neighbours who had loads under their decking!

KnocksOnKnocksOff@reddit

This is US based, but a cat is a cat. https://daily.jstor.org/environmental-danger-outdoor-cats/

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CarrotTraditional739@reddit

I've never felt comfortable letting cats outdoors. I understand that it would be ideal to let the animals walk outside but I can't square all the risks they face, from diseases, fights, cars, people harming them, other animals harming them including dogs etc.

It's one thing to say that it's their natural state, but you're supposed to be their guardian. I don't know how I'd live with myself if something happened to it

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ElectronicBrother815@reddit

Outdoor cat owner. He would be miserable if I didn’t let him go out. It would feel cruel not to let him. Our road isn’t busy and he has a lot of back gardens to roam in. My friend has indoor cats a few roads back. That is a busy road but the cats seem content inside and never bolt for the door when it opens, unlike my rascal. He has learnt to leave his gifts outside the back door now. 😜

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My cat goes outside, but i swear she was a dog in her last life.

During the winter, she only really wants to be outside if the door is shut. Once it's opened, she lasts all of 3 minutes then she's back. I shut the door, and it repeats.

If it's raining, it's apparently all my fault and she'll let me know how she feels about my choice, while sat in the open doorway looking sad.

If it's summer, the door is open for the majority of the day. She'll spend some time outside, but the rest of it is her sat in the window (a 4 second journey to the door) staring out at the back yard, miaowing sadly that she isn't out there.

So yeah, she does what she wants, when she wants, I just wish she was more decisive 😆

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Icy_Specific_8333@reddit

My cats go outside whenever we have a catflap. It's always been that way, and it will continue to be, I know people have their reasons for both sides of the coin, but my cats are happy.

Most of the time, they are inside sleeping, unless it's spring / summer time.

I do have one cat that has chosen to be housecat, though. She never leaves the home.

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Thelichemaster@reddit

Yes mainly because his former (died of old age) comrade was an indoor cat due to medical issues and felt it wasn't fair to let one out and not the other.

Ironically although he'll sit on the front porch he's never wanted to go further unlike other kitty who'd always be escaping into the garden.

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CumUppanceToday@reddit

One of the biggest reasons for reduction in song bird numbers in the UK is the domestic cat population.

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Individual_Pattern43@reddit

All three can do what they like, in or out.

They have the run of the house all the time, never go near the front door or near a main road.

Ted, Frankenstein and Kyra are three of the most loved, well looked after cats you could imagine.

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Flowa-Powa@reddit

If you ever see video of cats doing weird things, chances are it's understimulated indoor cat

It's dangerous outside, but cats need adventure

My cats have always been outdoor cats

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Original_Bad_3416@reddit

My cat is too handsome to roam and potentially get stolen. I wouldn’t live life myself if he got by a car or eat birds.

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My boy is indoor outdoor. He doesn't like the litter box, and unless the weather is appalling, he wants to do his business in the garden. He's getting up in years (18 now) and generally spends a lot of time inside, but when it's summer his favourite thing to do is lounge in the sunshine on the deck

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howlasinthecastle@reddit

Yes, but with rules. He's chipped, I don't live near a main road, he only goes outside when I'm home and it's daytime. So, he doesn't have constant free access to the garden. When I move (which is soon) I will try to make my garden enclosed. He's getting older and there's a busy road a little bit closer. I do believe the outdoors makes for mentally healthier cats. I couldn't imagine a cat never being outside. It would feel cruel.

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absolute_monkey@reddit

Yes, I live around fields and woods.

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AlunWH@reddit

I’m lucky enough to live in a rural area some distance from a main road.

There’s a cat flap, unless I’m in, which apparently means the door must then be opened by a person.

He’s eleven, so I’m reasonably confident he knows what he’s doing. (His predecessor lived to 19, so I must be doing something right.)

He can come and go as he pleases (which means he’ll go out if it’s warm and blame me if it’s too cold).

He has a litter tray in case the weather’s awful, but he still refuses to use it and will go outside even if it’s raining.

Most nights he sleeps on my bed. Unless he decides it’s time to eat, at which point he’s learned that licking my eyelids will make his food bowl fill up, once I’ve stopped screaming.

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bethcano@reddit

My cat is indoors-only. I adopted him as a senior, and he'd been inside his entire life. He doesn't have any outdoor skills and spooks very easily, so it's just safer to keep him inside now and he's quite happy about that, shows no interest!

I live next to a train station, so I'll probably look to adopt other cats who need to be kept inside.

munday97@reddit

I think the issue with cats roaming isn't that they are at risk of harm but more that they decimate wild bird populations. They will kill and eat a lot of birds and their eggs if they can get into the nests.

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RowRow1990@reddit

Even before my cat knew what outside was, he was trying to get outside.

He's got a cat flap, comes in and out when he wants, but I can gauretnee he'll be on the bed through the night, and I'll always see him before I go to work in the morning.

He's called Wolverine.

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Academic_Rip_8908@reddit

We live in a very rural area and our cat stays in overnight but can go out whenever he wants for as long as he wants in the day.

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Ok-Lack4735@reddit

Nope. I was gonna but they weren't arsed when we did let em out and I figured why take the risk.

They get lots of enrichment inside and prefer being around us anyway. And they're safer. Win win.

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GabberZZ@reddit

We have 5 cats, all rescue and the agreement was they would remain indoors.

We have a large house with lots of things for them to amuse themselves.

I couldn't cope with the idea of one of them going missing or being found run over.

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InYourAlaska@reddit

I used to be quite militant about cats should not be allowed to free roam. Partly due to the effect they have on the ecosystem, but mostly for their own safety.

I’ve softened slightly my viewpoint, but my cats are still indoor cats.

For me personally, my cats can’t miss what they’ve never had. The older cat has very rarely gone into the garden during the summer, but he’s more than happy to bask in the conservatory these days after a couple of house moves. The youngest has never been outdoors, and until the garden is secure enough she won’t be allowed out as the cats that roam around our home are huge, and she is feisty enough to want to fight.

In our home they have cat trees, toys, plenty of windows to look out of, and a perfectly controlled climate. It’s not like we have cats and just forget about them. I get why people let their cats out, but I also see a lot of owners who basically can’t be bothered to try to enrich their pets life so they just let them fuck off outdoors as it’s easier than buying some toys and a scratching post. Before anyone hops on my dick I am not saying all cat owners are like this, but growing up on a council estate you see a lot of people who would sooner let their pet die painful deaths than actually do something more than just put food down for them.

My sister lets her cats out, and the amount of vet bills she’s had due to her boys getting into fights is unreal. She has had some lady outright try to steal one of her cats on multiple occasions, and has spent many a night out walking the streets at silly o clock trying to track down another that gets easily spooked.

For me, I weigh up the pros and cons and I still personally don’t think the pros outweigh the cons of keeping solely indoor cats. Maybe that will change one day, but until that day I will keep my cats indoors

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zephyrthewonderdog@reddit

We have two cats. One used to disappear for days when it was younger, occasionally returned with fish, pigeons, rats. And sometimes a few new scars.

Of course, she's not a stuffed toy, she is an incredibly curious sentient being. How would any of us feel about being kept prisoner?

Sir David Attenborough explains it well here about Ros Adventure Cat

https://youtu.be/7LITGE2Rc7Q?si=92349YA4-1mjdLEY

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Fantastic-Bother3296@reddit

Like I have a choice?

Mine go out but then want to come back in, and then go back out again etc

Awe poor babies, I understand your reasoning there ^^

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complacencyfirst@reddit

My childhood cat was outdoor, he lived to be 21!

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Yes "indoor cats" are also new thing

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Fun-End-2947@reddit

True story.. rats know the sex and size of a cat from the smell of their urine.

We had a rat problem in a place we lived in years ago, and were the only maisonette in the block to never have a problem.

We had two large male boys, and the rats kept a fucking distance :D

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dave8271@reddit

My cat absolutely goes outside. He's quite old so doesn't tend to roam far, mostly goes and sits in the same tree at the bottom of the garden as far as I can tell.

I don't support keeping cats imprisoned indoors, it's cruel, even with good intentions. They are roaming creatures by nature. Unless they have a medical condition like FIV that actually makes it unsafe for them to be outside, there's no such thing as an indoor cat. It's like saying oh yeah, that's a box horse, it doesn't live in a field. Okay, well it probably should.

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West_Yorkshire@reddit

No, because they are responsible for a lot of deaths in UK garden birds which are already struggling, they shit in people's gardens, they fight other cats, causing an absolute racket at 3am, and a host of other issues

I am good and have indoor girlies.

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Fun-End-2947@reddit

Even the RSPB says that cats do not have any measurable impact on bird populations year on year.
If a bird gets caught by a cat, it's likely a non viable bird, so there is an evolutionary interplay that actually improved bird stock.

The greatest threat to bird populations is the destruction of their habitats, which humans are solely responsible for.

https://www.birdspot.co.uk/garden-birds-and-cats/cats-and-the-decline-of-garden-birds

"The RSPB maintains that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that cats significantly impact bird populations in the UK. Each year, millions of birds die naturally, due to starvation, disease, or predation by other animals, and cats are thought to primarily target weak or sick birds

A 2008 study comparing birds killed by cats to those killed by window collisions supports this view. The research found that birds killed by cats were generally in poorer condition, with less fat and muscle mass. This indicates that cats tend to prey on weaker or unhealthier individuals, which would likely have succumbed to other causes before the next breeding season."

Yes. Always have done and always will do.

Where we live its like a cats paradise out the front of our house. Hedgerows, a massive pond and loads of trees.

One of ours chooses to stay indoors and only ventures outside to go to the toilet. The other spends most of the day outside.

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MrMonkeyman79@reddit

Yep we have a cat flap so the cat can come and give as he pleases.

Tends to go out late at night to hunt and occasionally during the day to lounge in the garden if its sunny.

Mostly he just wants to lie in a comfy spot indoors though.

When I had outdoor cats, they went outside when they liked and from the four we had, one went missing and three lived till a ripe old age.

We had problems with one neighbour who hated our cats and for years we'd have arguments over them going in her garden. I understand why but for me, cats are outdoor animals.

Totally unrelated, within weeks of our last cat passing a Rentokil van was parked outside her house. For reasons unknown the mice that live on the nearby motorway embankment no longer had a predator patrolling her garden and they moved into her house. She still struggles with mice years later.

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jeanclaudecardboarde@reddit

We have been letting them out but the farmer who has a yard next door has just been round because our orange cat has been slicing through his silage bales and is not too happy about it. Threats of harm to the cats involving poison. So they're in tonight and they're not happy about that.

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Fun-End-2947@reddit

No. We built a large catio where they can go outside any time of day or night, but there are just too many risks outside where we live.

If we lived more rural, then yeah it would be a possibility but it's up to every cat parent to decide what is best given their circumstances.

Cats have a really small roaming range.. usually a max of 1km from their food bowl so if you're lucky enough to live in a quiet part of the country with lots of land that would be a terrific life for them

But if you're more urban, then they are faced with lots of risks
People, foxes, other cats, dogs, cars... far safer to keep them in

There is no measurable impact to keeping them inside in a safe cozy and appropriate environment, other than having a longer and healthier life

But unlike many cat carers I'm not judging at all.. you know your situation, you know your cat.
So you are best placed to decide

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