How COVID Pushed a Generation of Young People to the Right
Posted by SunderedValley@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 479 comments
Posted by SunderedValley@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 479 comments
Private_HughMan@reddit
Wild cuz it turned me from an "enlightened centrist" to a fairly hard left progressive who thinks the rich are a parasite class who we should regulate at best and destroy at worst.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
interesting. what work did you do during the pandemic?
Private_HughMan@reddit
I'm a grad student. I read papers, wrote, and did programming. I also had an internship at CIBC, a major Canadian bank, for a few months in 2020.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
So you were unemployed? This is painting a pretty clear picture around your political apotheosis.
Private_HughMan@reddit
I just told you I had 1-2 jobs.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
Sorry, I didn't understand that being a student was a job. My apologies.
Private_HughMan@reddit
Grad students get paid and are considered employees of the university they attend.
Rufus_king11@reddit
Im older Gen Z, and definitely feel the same
Fitzburger@reddit
As an older Gen Z, I also turned a hard left during the pandemic. I wonder what the political leanings of isolated, specific ages looks like.
RETVRN_II_SENDER@reddit
Older Gen Z reporting in, pretty left wing but not hoping for a revolution. Just wanna reverse these idiotic neoliberal economic policies that have clearly failed to improve things for the majority of people.
_TheMeepMaster_@reddit
Millennial here, and I think we could very much use a revolution. A hard reset is necessary at this point imo.
Cicada_Killer@reddit
Chaos is almost certainly much uglier than you imagine and there is no guarantee things come back better. Usually you have to go through several new regime-and-overturn cycles before another stable one appears.
It is better for the larger population to work to fix something than to tear it all down.
RETVRN_II_SENDER@reddit
Depends where you live. In USA? Yeah you guys crack on. Where I live, that would be a terrible idea.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Yeah, I've gone from centrist capitalist to "when the fuck did all these chumps decide that "the economy" is more important than people?"
Private_HughMan@reddit
There was an article recently posted to the onguardforthee sub about how Trump's threats are impacting Canada/US relations in Alaskan border towns. One guy said that they have a lot of interaction with Canadians and get along well. He said they had a lot of loonies and toonies and they didnt want to lose that.
His country is literally threatening mine with annexation and the thing he said he didn't want to lose was our money. Fucking disgusting. Money exists for people. People dont exist for money. If money doesnt serve people then it shouldn't exist.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Dude, it's not a big deal. Let the man want to keep the loonies and toonies. There are more Americans that back us and our independence than anything
Private_HughMan@reddit
This guy doesn't have our back, though. The only thing he said he didn't want to lose was our business. That's my point.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
That's one American. There will be Americans like that but there are more Americans that got our back in this
Private_HughMan@reddit
K, but I wasn't talking about those.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Take it like this - expanding it out, chances are most Americans don't care. With a good mix of Americans that back us and a few that doesn't. Getting bent out of shape for one or few Americans doesn't make sense when most Americans aren't like that
Private_HughMan@reddit
...Do you think them not caring is good? Because if you think standing by and doing nothing because it doesn't affect you is a redeeming quality, there's a poem you should read.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
It's better than them actually caring. In any populace you'll have more people that doesn't - more important we have people that are more against than anything, with those for being the extreme minority.
Either way, enjoy that we're winning 1-0 and hopefully we keep the pace
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Does the economy exist to serve the people, or do people exist to serve the economy?
That's the question that society needs to actively face.
Private_HughMan@reddit
I dont even understand how thats a question, tbh.
D0UB1EA@reddit
cause the economy uber alles freaks are straight up evil
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
The better question is:
Do people exist to serve society, or does society exist to serve individuals? And then play them out.
invisible_panda@reddit
Not GenZ, I'm Gen Oregon trail, but same.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
May I interest you in some fine politics, mixed in with a sprinkle of 2D boobs
Private_HughMan@reddit
Yeah I have no idea what's up with the sub name. I know that every April Fool's it becomes exactly what you think it is, tho.
30FourThirty4@reddit
I laughed at John Kerry catching a football. Not anymore knowing it was just meant to sway opinions. If I try to catch a football in a suit I'll probably look worse.
Kinperor@reddit
"Right" and "far right" have become the new favorite vessel for the parasite class.
The right can have populist politics with fuck-all economic politic other than "small government", unlike a competent left that would entail economic politics that actually matter.
I say competent left, because whatever you think of the identity-politics, it is undeniable that it has pushed us toward the current state of affair. People are craving some kind of relief and populist agenda, but the non-sensical focus on identity parameters that don't matter* completely muddled the left. This leaves us with a reactionary right that pretends to act on the woes of society, without excising the cancerous rich.
* I genuinely don't care who you are - just tell me that you will lock elbow with me (as a fellow worker) in a protest against the rich and we can be friends. Everything is downstream of class
Reagalan@reddit
You might not care, but the right does, and the far-right wants folks dead/gone because of them.
The left's embracement of identity is intended to empower us. The right has successfully corrupted that empowerment meaning to reinforce their "ackshually, we're the victims" narrative.
How did they succeed? By lying.
RealTurbulentMoose@reddit
It’s done the opposite through. Identity politics are insanely divisive, and the right succeeded handily in exploiting this division.
The resulting backlash is regressive.
The left should have focused more on economic justice for the majority instead of pushing so hard on frankly fringe issues. Now look where we are.
invisible_panda@reddit
Identity politics were amplified by a small but loud Twitter mob when the Tumblr nerds moved in.
The newsmedia then latched on to this, and all other messaging was lost.
Reagalan@reddit
My apologies. I'm sorry that we minorities demanded equal rights. We'll go back to being second-class citizens now. Sorry mass'a. So sorry.
It's that old saying that for the privileged, equality is oppression, or something that.
Should we have focused on economic justice, the right would just play identity politics. "They don't work hard, they don't deserve it".
At the end of the day, they will lie, cheat, and steal to maintain their power.
RealTurbulentMoose@reddit
See, this is what I’m talking about.
I’m on your side, and you think I’m attacking you. As a result, you’re losing what should be inalienable rights.
Congratulations.
Reagalan@reddit
You're not on our side if your position is "just lie down and take it."
There are no such things as rights.
RealTurbulentMoose@reddit
So what are you doing about your current administration? You're rising up?
The whole point of your Second Amendment is to overthrow tyrants and defend liberty against those who would usurp it. But you're here arguing with me on Reddit instead.
Reagalan@reddit
The majority of gun owners are Trumpsters. The military is mostly pro-Trump. Our state capacity is still incredibly high and currently wielded by those fascists. Attempting such an act right now would just leave you to die alone. Look at what happened to Luigi.
And who knows what's happening behind the scenes; palace intrigue and such. It could all end tomorrow and we wouldn't have a clue.
If anything, I'd say you guys need to prepare to get Ukrained and Polanded. Trumpler wants to do it. He's too stupid to realize the consequences.
RealTurbulentMoose@reddit
So start forming a "well-regulated militia" then and be the change you want to see in the world. You're still allowed, for now.
This is you, correct? You're talking a big game in this other comment:
Reagalan@reddit
That's not intended for an uprising; that's for taking out a few of the bastards when they come to kidnap us to send to the "wellness farms." It's a case where we die either way; those "farms" are intended to cause death via starvation and overwork.
The overwhelming majority of American people won't care about that either and won't revolt just because the "mentally ill" are sent away.
Private_HughMan@reddit
My elbow is always free. We have far more in common with each other than we do with billionaires.
lady_ninane@reddit
There were a lot of younger kids and adults who did not experience the same. They're not lost causes, but it just demonstrates the unique way those people were targeted. (Similar to the ways where millenials were targeted into the "enlightened centrist" way of thinking through things like debate spheres, 4chan, and other niche internet communities that eventually developed into alt-right pipelines masquerading as "liberalism".)
Private_HughMan@reddit
Thats true. I didn't mean to imply that they're lost causes. I just thought it was interesting how people can get pulled in totally opposite directions by the same inciting incident.
Inevitable-Menu2998@reddit
It's the same mechanism. This has pushed young people from where their natural centrist views towards the extreme. Center voters would normally have chosen liberal given what the republicans have proposed in the last 8 years, but the society has been polarized
mossryder@reddit
It's almost like "shit-stains gonna shit-stain".
Everyone made a choice. They chose hate.
ParagonRenegade@reddit
based
Early-Journalist-14@reddit
same, but i'm on the right.
cheguevaraandroid1@reddit
Same
bookkeepingworm@reddit
The Atlantic can suck my dick. They're blaming COVID rather than a directionless Democratic party that beats the DEI/pronoun drum to hide the fact their economic policies are no different from the loyal opposition. To hide the fact Democrats could give two shits about working class America to the point Democrats can't even give them the lip service that the Republicans gave them by acknowledging their frustration and disenfranchisement.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I’ve literally never heard democrats talk about DEI or pronouns except when republicans bring them up. In fact, they intentionally didn’t talk about trans people at all during the campaign trail. I agree that the democrats are still in the pocket of the wealthy, but they’re still way way better for the working class than the republicans and have been messaging on that front and passing actual material policy since 2020.
trias10@reddit
Joe Biden's promise to appoint a black woman to the SCOTUS is the main one I can think of.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
That’s not DEI that’s just shoring up a faction of voters’ support. Same reason Harris picked a white guy as her VP, or Trump picked a young tech bro.
trias10@reddit
I disagree, because he already had large support from Black voters. If he was really trying to shore up support with a bloc of voters, he should've appointed a Latino judge, as he was always weak with Latinos.
Ergo, it comes across as DEI/woke posturing to me.
CaffinatedOne@reddit
“Woke posturing”?
It’s not like there’s a small pool of (male, white) people who’re “most qualified” for the supreme court and choosing someone outside of that is somehow “posturing”. There’re plenty of people who are both qualified and could bring a different perspective to the court in its deliberations.
trias10@reddit
It's woke posturing and tokenisation because he immediately said he would appoint a black woman, irrespective of any meritocracy. It was black woman and nothing else. No white people considered, no Hispanics, no Native Americans, no Asians, no real meritocratic arena. Just a black woman, and he specifically used that term so often over and over that it cheapened her experience considerably which is a shame, and basically made her a token/prop.
That's what made it posturing. He should've just kept his mouth shut and said they would consider all candidates from all sexes and races based on meritocracy, and then selected her. Would've been a far better look and avoided tokenisation.
CaffinatedOne@reddit
So, by definition, there’s not a black woman who has the sufficient “merit” to be a supreme court justice? There isn’t some sort of ranked list of “people with the most merit toward being a justice”, and the job isn’t a technical one where we’re looking for a specific skill. There are easily 10’s of thousands of folks who’d make for decent justices and I’m probably underestimating that. Out of those, there are plenty of folks with different backgrounds and perspectives that we might want to have on the SC to add their voice.
Biden could have just picked the same and not said anything, sure, but for the people who were put off by the choice, do we really think that would change their views? “Oh, obviously this black woman was the choice with the most merit since he didn’t limit his choice…”, yeah, no. They would have had the same gripe.
trias10@reddit
I'm not even right wing and I had a major gripe with it. Too much DEI, banging on the drum at every press conference how he will nominate a black woman like it's something to be proud of. Nominate her because she's good, not because she's just a black woman. She was fully deserving of the job on merit, there was no need to keep bringing up her race and sex, it cheapened her actual experience.
Anyway, you wanted an example of what some people, even moderates/liberals, considered to be the Democrats harping on about DEI and I gave you a perfectly valid example, that other Redditors have commented on agreeing with me as well.
loggy_sci@reddit
He also nominated her because she is imminently qualified. Bringing up her race doesn’t cheapen her experience. wtf?
You make it seem like he appointed someone with no skills.
trias10@reddit
Sure it does. Imagine you complete 2 PhDs and win a nobel prize, and instead of focusing on those accomplishments in the public discourse, everyone just focuses on the fact that you're a black woman, including your boss who nominates you.
Wouldn't you feel a bit shamed and cheapened by that? All your amazing accomplishments and yet no seems to care, they all just talk about your race+sex.
loggy_sci@reddit
The only people who don’t care and are solely focused on her race and gender are people who clearly have a problem with her race and gender. You’re telling on yourself.
“Shouldn’t marginalized people not acknowledge their identity so that I can feel slightly more comfortable about an issue I didn’t care about 10 minutes ago??” -you
trias10@reddit
You keep missing my point. If she wants to acknowledge or talk about her identity that's fine. It's a problem when her white, male boss keeps reminding the world of her race/sex.
I don't refer to my employees by their race. Anne in accounts is just Anne, I don't say "My black female co-worker named Anne". That would be pretty fucked up and insulting to do.
If Anne wants to talk about her race/sex that's fine, but it's churlish for me to go around harping on about how I have a black woman co-worker as a white bloke.
loggy_sci@reddit
“Keeps reminding people” He made how many speeches about it? 4 or 5? He talked about it because it is the first time a black woman has sat on the Supreme Court for the entire history of the U.S.
Clearly you don’t understand racism in the U.S. or our history with it if you think that a President is going to stay silent about a SCOTUS nominee being a black woman. It’s not a personal attack on conservative white men for Biden to do this. They’ll be fine, I promise. Most reasonable people look at this and go “oh neat, good for her” and move on with their lives.
trias10@reddit
You still don't understand, I'm not against her as a pick, I think she's super qualified. I'm not the MAGA Two Minute Hate boogeyman you're looking for.
My original point is that here's exactly the woke/DEI focus someone wanted an example of. Biden didn't need to mention her race/sex at all, he could've just come out and said "here's my nominee, she's super qualified" and called it a day. And then the whole country would've just said "cool, good for her" and moved on with their day.
By choosing to specifically single her out for her race/sex, he brought all the focus specific to that trait. Even now, I know nearly nothing about her because they were never talking points from him, all I ever heard from him was "she's a black woman". Okay, who gives a shit? How about you talk about her published papers and PhD instead?
loggy_sci@reddit
Omg this isn’t even an example of “woke”, which is a meaningless catch-all that bigots use to describe politics they don’t like. She wasn’t a “diversity hire” as it did not come at the cost of another more qualified candidate.
He did say “here is my nominee, she’s super qualified”. He also said she is a black woman. Most of the country actually did say cool and went about their day, except for terminally political conservatives who think DEI and “woke” is an attack on white people.
The fact is the matter is that race is always going to be an issue in American politics. It always has been. Racism cuts thru every aspect of American life and there absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging it and trying to address it.
I 100% understand your point, I just think that you are making a point that is theoretical and doesn’t make sense in the actual world.
trias10@reddit
You yourself said Biden talked about her being a black woman 4-5 times, that's quite a lot. Once was more than sufficient.
There's no need to remind the world that someone is black 4-5 times in nominating them. People have eyes, they can see for themselves that she's a black woman and think whatever they will of that.
loggy_sci@reddit
Again you’re showing that you don’t know much about US politics. Nominations are a huge thing and the President talks about their nominees a lot. The nominees visit Congress, they do photo ops, etc.
Trump in 2020 announced that he would nominate a woman to SCOTUS and nobody had an issue with it. Why? Because DEI is a catch-all for race, and perpetually victimized white conservatives love a dog whistle.
trias10@reddit
If that is all true, then I'm even more right -- Biden shouldn't have taken the bait and said anything at all beforehand about nominating a black woman. He should've just done it and not said anything. Then there's no telegraphing dog whistle before, and we wouldn't even be having this conversation at all, because there'd be no DEI example to give.
loggy_sci@reddit
People who are upset about DEI will find any excuse and use any opportunity to feel aggrieved by people talking about race and gender.
It’s not “bait” to talk about these things. Nobody had any problem with DEI until it was weaponized by the right. Why should the rest of the country be bullied into not mentioning race because it makes a small number of fragile white people uncomfortable?
trias10@reddit
I'm upset by DEI/systemic racism/equity/etc but not in the way you think. I'm just really tired of it being centre stage since 2020, I'm tired of it dominating the national conversation to the extent it has since George Floyd. And I think a lot of voters are too.
In my opinion there are way more important issues which should dominate the social conversation and zeitgeist, chiefly wealth inequality and oligarchy. The way George Floyd kicked off 4 years of nonstop discourse about racism and equity, to the point that it pervaded everything from telly shows to sports games, I would like Luigi to kick off some class warfare for the next 4 years and we can leave all that DEI/race crap behind for a while and focus on changing this for a change.
loggy_sci@reddit
If you have an issue with DEI/‘woke’ politics monopolizing the discourse and then take it up with conservatives. They’ve been weaponizing it and talking about it non-stop, and far beyond anything democrats or progressives have been doing.
Nevertheless, you can’t understand class or address wealth inequality in the U.S. without engaging directly with “race crap”, as you call it. Class essentialism, which is what you’re suggesting, simply does not make sense in contemporary U.S. politics as an electoral matter. But also, why should people who are victims of racist U.S. policies not talk about it or demand a seat at the table? Because you’re tired of it? They know US history and that if they stop demanding equality they will be left out. Its happened time and time again.
I understand your frustration, and I agree that there should be a broad economic populist movement on the US left. That movement is going to require people of color be involved and to make that happen you have to address their issues.
trias10@reddit
No, the Democrats have been just as bad. I heard all the time from Democrats about George Floyd, police injustice, red lining, etc. AOC spoke about it at length. Hollywood wouldn't shut up about inclusivity and filled up every telly show and film with as many various diversity hires as it could. Even NASCAR was talking about inclusivity and diversity, and every sports game for a while had political acts. Don't get me wrong, Republicans wouldn't shut up as well, they were equally annoying talking about it all the time too, but in the opposite way. It just wasn't a Republican only problem, I heard it from all sides.
The problem of wealth inequality and oligarchy transcends all races, sexes, and even nations, so I believe it is a far more important issue.
loggy_sci@reddit
You realize that you are in control of the things that you see in the media, right? If you don’t want to see AOC talk about racial injustice then turn the channel. If it triggers you to see NASCAR talk about inclusivity then turn the channel. Your post is “I got tired of hearing about it so everyone should stop talking about it”. That is incredibly self-centered.
Also it doesn’t matter. You don’t get to dictate to people what is more important for people. And it’s not about what is more important. You’re not understanding that in order to address wealth inequality you’ll need the help of POC, and they won’t get on board any political movement with people who say “just get over police violence, I’m tired of talking about it”.
trias10@reddit
That's what I mean though, it was on every channel, nearly every subreddit (the way Trump fascism is now), every newspaper article, etc. Everywhere you went, nearly every show you watched, there was an aspect of it there. But you gotta read the room sometimes and know when an issue has become overly saturated and stop banging the drum.
The problem with banging the drum too much about an issue like race inequality or climate change is that people can only accomplish so much without a complete civil war and revolution. The people who could do something already did it, and at some point you're not going to win any new hearts and minds, and then it just becomes wearisome to keep hearing over and over about something which you've already maxed out your power to be able to help and influence things, and you have no further power to change.
loggy_sci@reddit
I think you’re overstating it for effect, or you’re completely out of control of the media that you watch for some reason.
What does “read the room” mean with regard to racial inequality? Don’t talk about it so much that it tires white people out, because then they’ll punish you? People are already being punished and discriminated against.
Honestly you just sound like you ran out of empathy and just don’t want to be bothered to hear that racism exists. You sound self/centered, like you personally got tired of hearing about it so therefore there is no value in it any more for anyone and everyone should shut up about the discrimination they currently face. Because you’re bored.
Give me a break. You need to check in with your empathy and your moral compass. You think you’re righteous with this nonsense class essentialist take, but the reason that movement fails over and over again is because of racism and bigotry. White people in America would rather hurt themselves than confront their bigotry. They’d rather try nothing, become exhausted, and then maintain the status quo by pitting poor whites against minorities. That is 100% what you are doing, and it’s boring and I don’t want to hear about it anymore.
trias10@reddit
I hate to burst your liberal Reddit echo chamber bubble my friend, but I'm not the only one who thinks this way. The majority thinks as I do, and it's why there's a huge backlash against DEI type stuff nowadays even from liberal tech companies, and the rise of conservative parties winning elections the world over. You can insult me all you like but that doesn't change the simple fact that everything I've said about the zeitgeist is correct.
loggy_sci@reddit
Tech companies aren’t “liberal”. wtf are you even talking about? There isn’t a huge backlash against DEI. Companies promoted DEI because it was seen as popular and now that it isn’t popular they are getting rid of them. The world carries on and people, while annoyed and frustrated, aren’t losing their minds about it like conservatives do over “woke” politics or trans issues.
You’re not some enlightened post-racial human. You’re just a racist who doesn’t like when people talk about identity in a way you don’t like.
trias10@reddit
Tech companies like Apple and Facebook are very liberal in their workforce. Where do you think most of Reddit works? Silicon Valley.
Yes exactly, you've just proven my point with what you wrote, all that DEI stuff was popular and now it's not anymore, precisely because there was too much of it and people got annoyed and frustrated. And the world is thankfully moving on. That's exactly what I have been saying the whole time!
I'm not racist, I jumped on the George Floyd bandwagon when it happened and marched in local protests. But like I said, it quickly became oversaturated, there was too much of it, especially in Hollywood. People need to read the room and back off and disappear when an issue becomes annoying to the great unwashed masses. It's more a lesson in advertising/marketing than anything to do with racism.
loggy_sci@reddit
This speaks to you more than anything. You jumped on the bandwagon of helping people victimized by police violence and then when it seemed like you got tired of it, you gave up and now want everyone to shut up about it. Sounds like you don’t care about it in the first place. Bandwagoning on social justice issues is weird and gross. Going to march for justice doesn’t make you not a racist, especially if you turn right around and throw that movement under the bus simply because it got too popular. It’s not a band.
Tech companies and other corporations had those initiatives because they were marketing. They didn’t want them in the first place and now they don’t want them because DEI is under attack by politicians. There has been a political backlash driven by racism, the same which you are pushing. That political movement is driven by about 1/3 of the country - most people aren’t as outraged about it as the racist GOP.
Anyway, I’m done going back and forth with you on this. The more you talk about it the more you reveal your character and it’s grossing me out.
trias10@reddit
Yikes, god forbid you ever get exposed to an opinion not in tune with the great liberal hive mind. The fact that your knee jerk reaction to anyone not toeing the leftist Reddit echo chamber mantra is to label them a racist and a bigot, and then insult them, is more telling on you than anything I've said. At least I have manners and can converse like an adult, without childish insults. Good luck to you trying to live in the real world outside Reddit, where viewpoints like mine are actually the majority.
loggy_sci@reddit
“Liberal hive mind?”
You’re telling on yourself that you are just a conservative larping as someone who cares about POC. Class essentialism is racist and you are so up your own ass about it it being a more enlightened position that you can’t see how you will fail at making people better off if you only care about white people. Marching in a parade one time doesn’t make you not a racist.
Views like yours are not the majority. The majority of people aren’t not this bothered by DEI. You are legit repeating right-wing political language and claiming to be enlightened. No thanks. Your brain is cooked.
Right-Fee-8972@reddit
You are the problem.
trias10@reddit
I think the insane liberal echo chamber of Reddit that you inhabit is the problem. You're not used to hearing opinions from people outside that echo chamber, but you really should because the world at large isn't Reddit. The 2024 election should've taught you that.
I_Am_Become_Dream@reddit
I mean he literally picked Kamala because he had promised in the first debate to pick a black woman as VP. Kamala is an accomplished politician, but she’s the epitome of a “DEI hire”.
trias10@reddit
Yes exactly, I agree. By focusing so much on the race+sex of these people, he cheapens their actual accomplishments and reduces them to progressive tokens. He's not focusing on their merits by doing so, instead he's telegraphing a DEI message: "look at me, I'm so progressive I'm nominating all these black women."
He should've focused solely on their merits and never once taken the bait of talking about their race/sex.
Earptastic@reddit
saying that out loud was a very bad idea. it made her look less qualified.
Mope4Matt@reddit
Left wing people talk about DEI and pronouns all the time! E.g. it's everywhere on reddit, and I see it irl too. I say this as a left wing person myself
calDragon345@reddit
I’m wondering if the word DEI means different things to different people. (I can’t believe my first thought was to call it a word rather than an acronym.)
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I mean we talk about trans people sure but in all my time in left wing spaces I don’t think I’ve ever talked about DEI with someone. If it came up it was just mentioned briefly to make some other point.
We talk about racism and stuff all the time sure, but not really DEI.
I_Am_Become_Dream@reddit
I mean call it what you will: identity politics, anti-racism, representation. Right-wingers are now calling all of that “DEI”
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I realize they’re doing that, but that’s not what DEI means and by going along with their false narrative you’re conceding the point rather than making them explain the policies they’re against individually, which they know would make them sound insane.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Kamala’s manifeto had carve-outs with special treatment for 47 ethnicities or demographics, that’s DEI.
Trup just called everyone Americans and won, return to universalism.
loggy_sci@reddit
Where were there carve outs in Harris’s proposals?
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
"Protect black mens Crypto profits" was the one that got memed online that I saw.
She actually got pushed into "All Lives mattering" that one after criticism and saying that she would protect everyones crypto profits, which just shows how unpopular DEI has gotten - a few years back anyone making a similar "all lives matter" argument for a minority issue would have been attacked across the entire media.
loggy_sci@reddit
Who is being censorious again. Typical conservatives - someone says something will benefit a black person and they lose their fucking minds.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
A race-based policy is racist by default.
loggy_sci@reddit
Policies that overwhelmingly favor white people are also racist by default. You just prefer those.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
Trump did not run as a universalist lmao. He’s calling for special treatment of christians, white people, men, straight people, cis people, and natural born citizens while putting down trans people, lgbt people, non-christians, immigrants both documented and undocumented, and obviously women. His whole platform has been identity politics since the beginning, he loves that shit.
Do you have a source on that Kamala claim? I’ve never heard that before,
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
I mean this is just bunk, his Secretary of State is Cuban, his Attorney General is a woman, his Secretary of Agriculture is a woman, his nominee for Labor Secretary is a Hispanic woman, his HUD Secretary is a black man, his Secretary of Education is a woman, his Secretary of Homeland Security is a woman, his Chief of Staff is a woman, his DNI is a minority woman, his UN Ambassador is a woman, and his SBA Administrator is a woman.
Trump gained with all minority groups, Kamala dropped with everyone and only gained with rich white people - you're trying to use the Dem 2016 narrative of "fading white resentment", but it doesn't describe the actual situation in 2024, and it's arguable if it was ever accurate.
As for Kamala's special treatment groups, you can just read her manifesto on the Internet Archive.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
Plenty of Hispanic people are white first of all, but secondly none of that has anything to do with his policies. You should know what tokenism is. Trump can appoint a million women to his cabinet, but if his policy platform is taking away the rights of women and he’s also raped many women, that doesn’t matter: he’s against women’s rights. His appointees took away women’s right to bodily autonomy while leaving men’s rights alone (I don’t see fathers being forced by the government to donate organs to their kids). He’s been intertwining Christianity with our government, not only a violation of the first amendment but also a way to push women back out of the public sphere. And of course he’s been relentlessly targeting trans women in particular (but also trans men to a slightly lesser extent obviously).
Trump still lost those minority groups to Harris. He made gains because people stayed home moreso than in 2020 (which people saw a crisis year rather than a normal election), and voter suppression efforts in many states which primarily target these groups worked. And again, Harris still won these demographics.
Can you link it? I thought candidates had platforms not manifestos. I did read Harris’ platform back during the election, and I didn’t see any mention of special treatment anywhere unless you consider trans people having equal rights or investments in black communities to counteract current and historical racism as “special treatment” (which it isn’t).
One_Bank_3245@reddit
they had trans ads during the campaign
LineOfInquiry@reddit
Republicans did, I didn’t see a single ad talking about trans people from Harris
One_Bank_3245@reddit
do some research
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I have, I didn’t see any she put out talking about trans people. Here’s her YouTube channel. It has all her campaign ads on it, do you see any talking about trans people? I don’t.
Isphus@reddit
If republicans aint pushing for it and democrats aint bringing it up, how did it happen?
reelznfeelz@reddit
It became culturally popular and corporations liked it because it felt like an effort that gave them legal protection for wrongful termination etc.
Why people think these are democratic initiatives and not corporate initiatives blows my mind. Sure most democratic politicians will say they support ensuring everyone has a fair chance at employment and at fair treatment, which is what DEI is supposed to help promote (corporate versions are often just performative though). But the Democratic Party didn’t force American companies to all create DEI programs. I watched that happen on its own last company I was with. Leadership just all decided they should have it.
lady_ninane@reddit
How did what happen?
Isphus@reddit
DEI becoming commonplace.
lady_ninane@reddit
Initiatives to improve representation in the workplace long predate those terms. They're not in any way tied to what they're being blamed for - and what they're being blamed for also long predates anyone trying to put a catchy acronym on it.
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I’m confused what you mean here? Democrats aren’t against DEI or trans people, they just don’t talk about them. But furthermore trans people have always existed, and were using correct pronouns long before the democrats accepts us. As for DEI programs, those were created by and for the private sector to help their companies run smoother and employees get along better. Neither of these require the government to exist.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/equity/
weird
Selenthys@reddit
Wow, you found ONE time where Dems talked about diversity. Congratulations ! The whole argument is invalid then, right ? Right ? This is how it works, isn't it ? You just bring one link, no arguments, no conversation and you win the whole thing, right ?
Fuck off troll. Learn to discuss with people and grow up.
UNisopod@reddit
The actual laws about non-discrimination have always been pretty bare-bones compared to what businesses are actually doing in practice.
Mostly it was a form of corporate marketing done as a way to make themselves look good, and then it turned out to lead to better productivity so they kept doing it. Getting rid of it now is mostly a way to avoid potential public backlash as the feelings of people towards it have changed significantly.
No_Heart_SoD@reddit
Ever heard of "moral panic"?
valentc@reddit
What? Republicans absolutely push the narrative that democrats are obsessed with DEI. The democrats didn't have to do anything for this narrative to happen.
Then, eventually, when they say it a dozen times a day, someone like you is going to take that bait because it's way easier to push misinformation than to correct it.
And then you're going to push what they said without actually thinking about it because you've heard it so much.
Oh, and it's a way to be racist without saying any slurs.
Array_626@reddit
Hmm, the issue with that is you don't need to hear DEI or whatever from the Democrats, or campaign messaging. You will hear it in every day life. At my company, we have DEI initiatives, quarterly meetings, I think we have a DEI C-level executive as well.
Even if Democrats never mention it during the campaign, DEI already exists basically everywhere in everyday life, so people are still exposed to it. If you consume conservative media, then the worst of it is sought after and pushed into your face with the most inflammatory interpretation of events possible to generalize the worst instances of abuses of DEI programs to all DEI initiatives.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Right, and if you disagree with the politics you get fired! Imagine the Dems reaction if the Republicans brought in equivalent policies where you're regularly interrogated and forced to support their politics or you get fired. Better not write any negative slack comments during pro-life month!
loggy_sci@reddit
DEI isn’t about politics. You’re repeating that nonsense that diversity and equity is necessarily political, without understanding that criticism is a political position sold to you by politicians.
DEI itself was pretty bland HR trainings.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
DEI was pretty political, there was plenty of weird stuff about forcing asking for pronouns in everyday interactions, turning up on time being a "white supremacist" concept, and so on. Every HR speaker they bring in is some kind of crazy activist who wants everyone to follow along with new esoteric mental illnesses.
And the HR trainings didn't even work! They were proven to actually make people more racist! This is the thing, it's all "you're a good/bad person for where you stand on this" and no one sticking their head above the parapet and asking if it's actually effective before we roll it out across society as a whole.
loggy_sci@reddit
DEI and CRT are proxies for white grievance toward Black Lives Matter and things like affirmative action. Doesn’t matter if Democrats talk about it or not, Republicans have weaponized it. It was mostly a bunch of companies doing trainings but that was enough to drive white men insane.
VaseaPost@reddit
This DEI shit got crazy, I work in East Europe, we don't have almost any blacks or minoritys in my city. We received a visit from the HQ, 5 people from USA. I myself heard 2 women discussing the issue that somehow the local office is not diverse enough.
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
So funny to imagine American progressives going to eastern Europe to lecture them about diversity.
reelznfeelz@reddit
Thank you. I’ve been pushing back on that too. Its right wing media that tells people “all democrats care and talk about is identity politics”.
The democratic politicians I hear and read about (because I read actual news) sometimes mention gender issues etc but indeed it’s usually as a response to right wing bigots doing something oppressive. The actual democratic platform while still a little too neo lib for me, is by far the better platform with focus on pro-worker and pro-middle class policies. It’s not “all just DEI”, that’s just untrue.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Why are we pretending the Dems don't care about identity politics? Remember the Senate kneeling in a dashiki? Ruthkanda forever? Saying 'birthing persons' on the floor of the house because they didn't want to say only women could get pregnant.
Have you been living under a rock for 10 years? There's stuff ranting about identity politics from a positive place on the frontpage of reddit now, and this site is 90% Dem!
vote4boat@reddit
Which means there was no clear boundaries on what people thought they did and didn't believe, which I think is honestly a fair criticism of progressive stances on culture-war issues. Instead a mix of trolls and zealots set the parameters of what people thought the Democratic stance was
LineOfInquiry@reddit
It’s not really a criticism of progressives it’s the democratic party’s stances on social issues. The dems are afraid to take a strong stance on anything due to fracturing their support so they refuse to, which ends up ironically losing them support as they don’t appear to stand for anything. If the dems had a consistently progressive and well defined platform as they did in 2020 they probably would’ve won.
It’s even worse when they just decide to just copy the republicans, like they did with policing and immigration. That earns them negative votes.
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Yes but republicans are told democrats are the ones bringing it up all the time.
You've confused your actual reality for the "reality" they've opted into.
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
Then Republicans are dumb for buying the bullshit. I mean, what else is there to say? We can't convince them with actual reality, so what are we supposed to do? Make up even more insane shit for them to believe in? What's the answer here? Natural selection isn't going to sort this one out for us. What's the answer to numb skulls who have been propagandized beyond redemption and are now ruining everything for the rest of us?
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Gotta get the seeing voters who didn't vote. Most other folk seem to far gone.
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
Who? 30% voted for this, and 40% just don't care or don't think it matters and can't be convinced otherwise. Those folks aren't worth the waste of breath.
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Well giving up isn't exactly a way to win again.
I'm a dick online but in person I've managed to convince like 6-7 people that Trump is just saying whatever to get into power. So it's possible
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
I'm not giving up. I'm just way past talking. The time for convincing was before the election. It doesn't matter who you convince now. If people couldn't even be bothered to get off their asses and vote, do you honestly think that they're going to do what might need to be done next?
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Yup. A lot of people are gonna face hardship and just yelling at them is gonna drive them back to not voting or to the GOP.
Gotta be a force to direct them when they're ready. It's sucks but that's what we did through Bush Jr and should've kept doing through Obama.
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
A lot of people are going to face hardship because of Republicans, and Republicans will own it 100% (whether they admit it or not). If they still vote Republican after that, then stupid is as stupid does. If what's coming doesn't wake them up, nothing will.
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Right agreed. It's about focusing on the folks who are still in the middle for some reason.
lady_ninane@reddit
The folks in the middle aren't really in the middle though, that's part of the biggest problem.
They're on the right and only think they're in the middle because some of the most right-leaning left-wing representation in the US is someone they agree with every now and then.
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
You're right. I have spoken to a few people who I wouldn't place anywhere on the political spectrum, but who are just waking up to what's going on, like they've been asleep the whole time. It is important to talk with them. I'm not sure how many of them there are, though.
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Most people want their lives to go well and are stressed about immediate things. It's hard to convince them they should have energy for other stuff.
Usually something bad happens and they get knocked out of it.
Then there's a whole segment of the world that just want to be ruled to feel safe. I don't really get those folk but they're usually unable to be reached until something truly awful happens to them.
pwendle@reddit
Keep in mind the data that they are basing their assumption on showed a big spike in support for 18-25 year range group for Trump. This age group was likely to experience a high school year ripped out away from them because of the pandemic. They felt the isolation of having to skip sports and online schooling. That is a shitty reality they had.
the_jak@reddit
So no sports ball and no lunch table bullshitting and in response they elect a fascist.
I’m starting to understand why older generations hate young people. They’re fucking morons.
8004612286@reddit
One of the most important periods of their life was taken from them for a disease that for their age group is comparable to the flu.
the_jak@reddit
So go and make the next period rad. Or are you assuming we all peaked in high school?
8004612286@reddit
If you can't understand why a teenager trying to figure out who he is, how to socialize, figuring out relationships for the first time, becomes agitated about being locked inside for potentially over a year, then no one can help you.
Imagine your high-school. No Prom. No Sports. You graduation? On Zoom. Your peers? Don't see them. Quality of education? Fell off a cliff.
Have some compassion man.
the_jak@reddit
Yep. And it helped keep them from being disease vectors.
I’m sorry your life has been so soft that you feel entitled to these things. No one asked for COVID to happen. But it did. That’s the hand that was dealt. They should be happy we aren’t feeding generations of young men to machine guns anymore. If they couldn’t deal with the meager ask of “quarantine so we can have a better outcome of all of this”, I can’t wait to see how they deal with fighting whatever war these idiots they helped elect get us wrapped up in.
8004612286@reddit
Sorry I feel entitled to go outside?
And for what outcome? Those lockdowns did fuck all.
the_jak@reddit
Who wasn’t allowed to go outside? I went on tons of walks. Up and down my block wearing a mask and opposite side of the street from other people doing the same.
Keep making excuses for these bitchmade excuses for people.
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
Oh my god that is so funny. Literally a living, breathing stereotype of the virtue signaling progressive circa 2020.
Thank you for your service sir, thank you for keeping us safe.
the_jak@reddit
Thank you for conceding the subject
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
Wasn't arguing lmao
pwendle@reddit
You’d at least be statistically correct. Literacy rates are so low and the fresh adults of today have a reading comprehension in the gutter compared to every other generation before them. Millennials on the opposite end of the spectrum are arguably over educated from a societal POV. But that is a different discussion.
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Nah. Andrew Tate and isolation is much more responsible for this than anything any Democrat has ever done.
Early-Journalist-14@reddit
Democrats backstabbing bernie in 2015 did more for the current state of politics than andrew tate has ever done.
nam4am@reddit
I love the guy’s personality but he literally underperformed Harris in his own state, which is easily the most left-wing state in the country.
Reddit is not the real world.
UH1Phil@reddit
One doesn't exclude the other. It's been a perfect shitstorm of bad actors leading up to this.
SilverAgedSentiel@reddit
But what about all the shit that DNC literally had no intention of doing, which is far more than what they did. That's the problem inaction.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
illinois couldnt solve a massive gang problem in chi-town, and ICE meanwhile got who they wanted and out within weeks.
this is why the republicans are gaining, they're starting to DO.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
"The city couldn't fix a complex issue created by generational poverty, systemic oppression, a history of institutional racism and inequality overnight... So here's an unrelated non-sequitir where I dishonestly scapegoat migrants as well as lie to flatter a politician".
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
"I am replying to something to put down a guy who made a valid point about how bad law enforcement is"
seriously bozo, police haven't made a single DENT, yet the federal agencies have twice now reduced the crime rate in chicago in mere weeks, granted I dont think illegal immigrants do the most crime, thats ridiculous, but the crime rate in chicago, if it didnt go down now, certainly did in 2020 when the national guard was there.
and then rose back up when they left.
its not a "muh systematic racism" problem, its a "lack of will to do what is needed to solve it" problem.
lady_ninane@reddit
Except there's nothing that shows that actually happened as either a direct or indirect result of federal agencies' involvement in Chicago versus the ongoing downward trend.
Yeah man fuck all the studies we've done which have demonstrated the strongest indications and drivers of crime, bring in the military.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
I'm sure that freak has a "final solution" in mind.
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
Strictly enforcing the law and jailing people who can't even abide by the most basic rules set out by society?
Seems like that's what he wants to me.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
You mean the status quo that hasn't worked?
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
Oh man you need to read some more sentencing decisions if you truly believe that's what's happening.
There's states that have literally decriminalized and defacto made stealing legal.
If you want things to work you can't do them half-assed, the state needs to keep a heavy hand over criminals.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Yawn. You're literally just going "let's just do the same thing that didn't work last time".
Kind of pathetic really.
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
I guess the solution would be to make crime legal like we've been doing in Democratic states?
I guess the statistics will reflect the lower crime numbers when the populace is so brow beaten from having their property taken from criminals with no reprisals that they won't report it anymore.
Seems to be the progressive way, glad that ideology has soured to the average person.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Interesting that you have to lie so badly to create a strawman.
By "making crime legal" I assume you're referring to CA increasing the felony theft threshold to $950?
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
Yeah things like this, or progressive DAs refusing to prosecute crimes they deem unimportant. It's been fueling social disorder.
Criminal justice reform is a sham and ignores human nature.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
The felony theft threshold in Texas is $2500.
Why are you not complaining about that?
Have you considered that you are gullible and fall for right-wing bullshit like a total loser?
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
This also ties into enforcement aswell, you should know that.
Texas isn't exactly known for having lenient DAs, probably why you don't see flash mobs of shop lifters as often as you do in places like California.
Overall you're ignoring the simple fact that having criminals in prison and not in the community prevents them from commiting crimes, I know people whine about the cost but that's only because our correctional systems are over bloated bureaucracies, they could be ran much cheaper.
Selenthys@reddit
Did they do anything to address the source of the problem or they just think that deporting and incarcerating people is a solution ?
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
You didn't make any valid point though.
Except they haven't. You're just full of shit, making claims with literally nothing to back them up.
So you admit that you were full of shit then?
Oh right, so you've got some final solution in mind then?
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Hilarious. ICE literally just said they're not doing higher numbers despite all the extra money, but you believe the trumpito's propaganda.
They actually said their numbers dipped all of February. You might wanna get better sources for your information.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/2025/02/15/ice-arrests-immigration-deportations/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/12/ice-officials-reassigned-deportation
RedditModsSuckSoBad@reddit
It'll take time to scale infrastructure in order to facilitate more deportations.
Selenthys@reddit
If you take this sentence out of context, it really ressemble something out of Germany around the 1930s.
Scrapple_Joe@reddit
Deportations are actually down from their rates last year. Biden was doing way more than Trump has been. But congrats you're buying their propaganda.
https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/immigration-enforcement/immigration-enforcement-and-legal-processes-monthly
loggy_sci@reddit
Kamala Harris mentioned trans people on the campaign trail ONE TIME. Republicans played anti-trans political ads in battleground states non-stop for months.
EjunX@reddit
The democrats not favoring Berie Sanders is the living proof of that. The democrats are just woke right-wingers from the perspective of the rest of the world.
loggy_sci@reddit
If you look at what Trump has done in the first month of presidency and still think this, you are a fool
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
You don't think a global pandemic would increase/trigger xenophobia in a population?
DBCOOPER888@reddit
I've never heard more about DEI than the past month in my entire life, and it's entirely coming out of the mouth of the Right. It's the new boogeyman.
spyguy318@reddit
I dunno what world you’re living in but pretending that an administration that reasonably kept us out of a major recession after a global pandemic is the same as an administration that’s looking like it’s going to crash the world economy in a month is fucking wild
lightningbadger@reddit
Yeah man, it's the pronouns that caused this, definitely not the rallying cries to lock health officials in prison and vaccine misinformation
cocobisoil@reddit
😂
EnergyPolicyQuestion@reddit
It turned me from a 13 year old who didn’t know shit about politics but really hated Trump to a 14 year old communist to an 18-year-old reluctant capitalist and center-left Democrat.
Afraid-Bee-1976@reddit
The backlash against authorities was predictable, given how confusing and intentionally obfuscated and sometimes outright false a lot of the guidance and information was. When you tell what you consider to be "white lies" or simplifications or generalizations dumbed down for the publics "own good", don't be surprised when people interpret these inconsistencies and falsehoods to be evidence of a lack of trustworthiness
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Didn't your country confiscate bank accounts and imprison people for honking horns on the street outside the capital
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
Way to lowball it. They honked and partied for weeks, drive the residents mad, then demanded the democratically elected leader step down, had a whole ass list of stuoid demands.
It was canadas Jan 6th
free2game@reddit
You realize how crazy that sounds to Americans or even most Europeans right? Free speech and the right to protest are pretty fundamental parts of democracy.
chowderbags@reddit
Free speech and the right to protest doesn't and shouldn't include blasting truck and car horns at all hours for weeks on end at sound levels that will literally damage hearing.
squidparkour@reddit
lmao, did you miss the years where the government pumped endless chemicals weapons into our air and watersheds while kidnapping people for protesting?
Did you miss the free speech cages we've had for literal decades?
How about all those illegal chokeholds the police killed people with?
Spent any time learning about Cop City?
No clue about the constitution-free border zone either, right?
You can basically run over a protest in a car and they'll blame the protestors here. Repeatedly.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
Your freedom to protest ends when you start stomping on others rights which is what the convoy was doing, loud, obnoxious and disturbing others rights.
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
The Supreme Court ruled the protests legal and valid.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
The supreme court is compromised as fuck and ruled by a king
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
Oh but the governments weren’t compromised at all and definitely only enforced mandates for the greater good.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
Mandates were provincial and I'm pretty sure I mistook you for someone mentioning the American supreme court...were you talking about the American or Canadian?
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
Obviously Canadian since this was in Canada. Mandates were both provincial and federal depending on the mandate. You clearly don’t know much about what actually happened during that time, but it’s nice that you try. Might wanna check your sources, though.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
You say obviously but I have idiots in other comments mentioning america so its best to check.
I'm well aware what went on during those times. Most of the mandates people got pissy about were provincial and those same people blamed the feds instead. Doug Ford is who should have been blamed.
He was happy to dip to the cottage for months and then not do his job consistently.
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
People were plenty mad at Trudeau’s vaccine mandates too, that’s literally what triggered the protest
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
The convoy didn't even know what it was protesting, at one point going ape over AMERICAN rules on the other side of the border and blaming trudeau.
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
That was CBC propaganda, but go ahead and soak it up. The protestors knew very well what they were protesting.
free2game@reddit
Man you must thing the French are committing murder with how they go about protesting.
Maeglom@reddit
Not crazy at all. As someone who has been to a protest I can confidently say that cops in the US would break up a protest that shut down streets like the convoy protests did.
HarryJohnson3@reddit
So they were protesting?
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Yes and no. In Canada you need a permit to actually protest. For the most part even if you don't people turn a blind eye but you're supposed to clear it with the local police to avoid public disturbance claims.
They never did. They also parked right outside of a busy street for weeks and were illegally constructing buildings.
They over stayed their welcome. The wild thing is, they thought they were exercising their constitutional rights - we don't have those constitutional rights. The Bill and the common law makes some room for protest but there's no codified free speech rights.
Basically, these people were stupid
HarryJohnson3@reddit
You realize how crazy that sounds to Americans or even most Europeans right? Free speech and the right to protest are pretty fundamental parts of democracy.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Hahahaha yes. But that's our Chater Rights. A lot of this is backed with Canadian Common Law tradition but we don't have it codified. A lot of these idiots got in legal trouble by citing 2nd Ammendment rights which we don't have
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
"Peacefully" the people who live in the areas of the city are still pissy about it
HarryJohnson3@reddit
Why put peacefully in quotations? What did they do that was violent?
Common5enseExtremist@reddit
Absolutely nothing. The commenter is just a bootlicker.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
So you spent the majority of your diplomatic and intelligence capabilities chasing down people who blamed horns in protest for massive forced closures, searches and seizures, and arrests for operating businesses against an undemocratic quarantine ordered without discourse?
Absolute insanity to accept this is a nominally free people.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Wow, when you string random words together like that it's easy to see how you pretend to be a victim.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
These words are not random, but chosen and intentional.
Why do you couch everything in emotional gasps? "Wow" "pretend", "so easy", it's all words of implications and emotions. The realities of what occurred bear no relevance to these things. Its sputtering breath.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
No shit. You're intentionally misrepresenting what happened in order to flatter your own position.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
No, it's a very basic description of the events, as I have seen them, without the emotional hysterical language you use on everything. You supported laws that violated basic rights, because it was more comfortable for a small few. Why are you swearing like a sailor about it? Can you not articulate beyond incentives?
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
What rights were violated?
Because as far as I can tell there's no right to block a road.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
There's no right to gather and protest outside the government? If that is true, that is a brutal and horrific tyranny and I pity those poor souls in their oppression
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
There's no right to block the road. There's no right to obstruct traffic.
Traffic laws are not a violation of rights. Using a vehicle on the roads is a privilege.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
There is no right to gather in protest, only privileges granted by the monarch?
That is tyranny. There is clearly a right for people to in pursuit of Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of their best life to represent themselves as full beings and persons of a republic. The right to gather, organize, protest, and petition the government are chief amongst these rights both in the Charters and the Constitution. It is a severe overreach to say that merely blowing horns in protest is punishable by such extreme punishment. To disturb the comfort of Ottawa is terrorism, secret trials, permanent observation and to be locked in a cold cell in solitude for years. To slaughter animals, close businesses, and demand obedience from the provinces is so natural a business that the rulers can not even see it as an action, but rather a natural cycle like the moon and the rain.
They not only have no idea, they simply refuse to. Their salary and peace are dependent on not understanding.
A place where petition, gathering, and speech are mere privileges of the crown to be taken or given at the behest of a tiny greedy few is a disgusting farce of a republic. The despots of the East at least acknowledge, when they drag the dissidents outside their massive estates, that they rule by power. The despots of the Commonwealth demand you worship their benevolence as they strip every basic right that once existed for citizens of the crown. Fucking pathetic.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Driving is a privilege, not a right.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
But there's a right to throw people in jail for making fucking TikToks or Facebook posts? If you prefer security over liberty you will have neither.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Driving is a privilege not a right.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
No first the government asked the city to remove them as it is their jurisdiction and residents were being kept up all night and complaining, when that failed they asked the province to handle it since it is provincial city so a provincial matter, when dougey didn't do shit they said fuck it you leave us no choice.
Also swastikas were flown, known white nationalists were their and most of the organizers were or are now criminals and/or grifters. You Americans need to stop trying to boil complicated matters down to simplistic answers.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
The right of politicians conveniences over the livelihoods of the provinces is the definition of a tyranny.
TrizzyG@reddit
You moron it was regular people who were most affected. I had a friend who literally couldn't sleep for days on account of those dumb fucks. An awful and harrowing 2 week experience where dumb hicks aimlessly harassed and terrorized local residents with absolutely unrealistic and nonsensical demands /complaints. The municipal and provincial governments utterly failed in protecting their citizens on account of those terrorists, and now stupid dipshits think it was government tyranny. Wild
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Your comfort and sensibilities aren't more important than destroyed livelihoods. You're emotional, angry, petulant that someone who now faces hunger would dare to make noises outside your town as you sit with an urban job, protected in one way and enslaved another. You call them terrorists why, because you fear what they remind you of?
Your feelings and comfort are not a license to rule over others.
TrizzyG@reddit
I couldn't give less of a shit those dumbasses got what they deserved and some. Their stupid sensibilities don't give them the right to run roughshod over other people's rights. Cry about them as much as you want, pal.
They're terrorists because they attacked, harassed , and had no goals except to disrupt every day people who actually work for a living and don't abuse the oxygen they breathe.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Wow, so Canadians are suffering and you scream that the disgusting proles deserve it and need to fall into fucking line and stop disturbing their betters? That your ears being annoyed by horns of protest justify imprisoning, killing, and destroying millions of lives? You say that the disgusting poors should be slaughtered for the mere crime of breathing the air of the Elite City?
Jesus fuck, you are just an open tyrant. Actively calling for death against those you rule over because your emotions got hurt when they reminded you of their existence. Pathetic.
brightwings00@reddit
Where did u/TrizzyG call for anybody's death?
Also, I'd bet decent money that the same people in the convoy wailing "waaaaaah lockdowns waaaaaaah quarantines!" would make health care workers' lives miserable when the system was flooded with COVID cases and demand to be seen first and complain at length when other people were treated. It's like a toddler screeching that you won't let them stick a fork into the electric socket.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Terrorists who don't deserve to breathe and deserve "anything they get"? Please, we're adults here, not whining children and gossiping wives. Say what's meant.
brightwings00@reddit
The exact wording was "don't abuse the oxygen they breathe."
Charming. Okay: the people in the convey (like yourself, based on these comments) go on endlessly about "personal freedom," but what they really want is the personal freedom to do whatever the hell they want, regardless of who they hurt or make suffer, and everybody has to love and praise them for it. "Canadians are suffering" a lot more Canadians would have suffered and died if the government just flung its hands up and said "yeah, screw it, go cough on each other, everybody go get sick," but as long as it's not the people in the convey or anybody they care about, who cares, right?
This isn't some noble crusade for personal freedom, it's the age-old conservative mating call of "fuck you, got mine."
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
This is why negotiations are ignoring this bullshit. You want to quibble over the wording of slander like it means something. Our people are bleeding on the ground as we speak. Grow a pair and stop whining and do something
Srinema@reddit
I don’t think people understand the psychological impact of sleep deprivation and sensory overstimulation. It’s akin to torture in terms of how it damages a person’s brain.
All because a bunch of uneducated fucks decided to give their money to a self-described Nazi so they could go have a cry-fest about how their lives are ruined by the government prioritizing public health over profits - for a few months.
Covid restrictions in Canada were incredibly mild, and we have significantly more hospitalizations due to Covid today than in Feb 2022 when these snowflakes throw their weeks-long tantrum.
AverageKaikiEnjoyer@reddit
Literally, I used to go to school in the area and we were told to stay inside on breaks and not buy food in the area. Someone I knew got a black eye after an altercation on their walk to school. You could hear their horns from the classroom a ten minute walk away. Imagine what those living in apartments closeby were dealing with.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
The right of free speech ends when you start torturing a city with your stupidity. Oh yea a group blockaded the ambassador bridge as well. If anyone was defining tyranny it was the convoy idiots that all dissapeared when America threatened the country.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
So... like how Ottawa tortured millions of Canadians across the country by mandating lock downstairs, surveillance, censors, and destruction of tens of thousands of Canadian businesses?
Or do you mean torture as in hearing the complaints of the lives they ruined disrupt sleeping on 2000 thread count sheets
Srinema@reddit
Lol. Public health measure are tyranny to you snowflakes.
Go shove a tube of horse deworming paste down your gullet.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
You mean like euthanasia of the elderly and poor?
Srinema@reddit
I’m virulently opposed to euthanasia, and that isn’t remotely comparable to a pandemic.
Nothing to say about the fact the convoy was organized and led by self-confessed Nazis, eh?
Do you think it’s a good idea for Nazis to hold fundraisers on false pretences, and then rally their followers to go torture the civilian residents of another city for three weeks about an issue that was already resolved?
valentc@reddit
Wow, you literally are just using words you've heard before. That's not even close to what torture means.
You clearly aren't the brightest bulb in the crayon box, so maybe just stick to blowing air horns up your ass to stick it to the government.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Solitary confinement, keeping people in the cold, threatening them while holding trials ex parte that the defendant has no participation in? These are torture by international law. Insults do not change the basic events and realities - emotional impacts only you.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Drama queen much?
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
Lockdowns were provincial like most of the covid protocols.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Interesting how blocking traffic is the worst offence ever when it's a climate change protest. But when you block traffic that's different.
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Thinking that these two things aren't the same set of basic influence and media operations is to be quite narrow in your view. They're not different at all.
valentc@reddit
Lol, don't flatter yourself. They didn't spend "a majority or diplomatic and intelligence capabilities" to chase down a bunch of truckers.
Unhappy-Ad9690@reddit
Last I checked the only protestors to storm the parliament were the Pro Palestinian ones.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
So we are just going to pretend the months long siege was just happy friends being happy and friendly and they definitely didn't piss off the people that lived there, Defense didn't have nazi flags, Def didn't make people ashamed of the Canadian flag until recently and CERTAINLY didn't receive money from all kinds of fun shady places like the republican party. And they most definitely didn't have a whole written set of demands.
Earptastic@reddit
all protests are annoying as hell. that is the point.
Flagon15@reddit
So burning down cities and looting is a valid form of protest, bht noise pollution isn't?
the_jak@reddit
Please list the burned down neighborhoods you personally witnessed
DefinitelyNotMeee@reddit
Personally? So .. you don't think Antarctica exists because you personally didn't visit it?
lady_ninane@reddit
That is a bizarre way to respond to the actual question.
DefinitelyNotMeee@reddit
Is it? The other guy claimed that only personal experience means anything. If you didn't see it with your own eyes, it didn't happen.
lady_ninane@reddit
You could have linked to literally anything that suggested even halfway what you claimed, and that would've been sufficient.
The problem is that there isn't really anything that suggests that neighborhoods were burnt down or that anyone considered looting anything other than a crime - let alone whether or not any of these things were either widespread or representative of the overwhelming majority of the protests.
But sure, the guy was only saying that what you see matters and not asking that you back up a claim that has no basis.
the_jak@reddit
No, I believe it exists because many many many many well educated and qualified geographers told me it does.
All you have are entertainers masquerading as journalists on Fox and OAN.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Damn, but that was a quick descent into partisan bullshit by you.
AverageKaikiEnjoyer@reddit
Neither are, good false dichotomy though mate.
Biosterous@reddit
You're forgetting a few big points:
It was organised. There was a command centre populated with former intelligence workers and people tied to mercenary organisations.
There was very significant, international funding.
These are the things that got my attention. I fully believe there were plans for violence had it gone on long enough.
A-Normal-Fifthist@reddit
It's pathetic that you think that's somehow equivalent to Jan 6th.
chambreezy@reddit
Democratically elected by calling a snap election in the height of Covid even though it was so deadly and scary that we couldn't visit loved ones.
Most people there just wanted to be heard, and he hid away in his cottage instead.
The only crime committed was Trudeau enacting the Emergencies Act to stop a protest deemed legal by our Supreme Court.
Accurate_Summer_1761@reddit
Its like you forget that they had freezer to hold the extra bodies in the states or the mass graves.
The province and city were required to stop them and decided to enable them for political points.
Do enough and it's "oh it wasn't so bad" Let people die and its "Save us daddy premiers and prime minister"
BaguetteFetish@reddit
Really dodging Trudeau's scummy snap election there buddy.
Yeah we really needed to spend all that money so that Trudeau could flop at securing a bigger hold on parliament and end up with more or less the same seats.
MafubaBuu@reddit
What a fucking joke of a comment. Please, sir, don't comment on Canadian issues if you have that insane of a take
RagePrime@reddit
Our Jan 6th was a winter block party complete with hottub. Lmao
-Chumguzzler-@reddit
LMAO
sigmaluckynine@reddit
We should put some context behind this. We did but that's also because there were elements of far right extremists and they were labeled as a terrorist group
MafubaBuu@reddit
Yeah, they did. They also painted the entire protest as some white nationalist protest of nazis when it was mostly people standing on the side of highways having BBQ's. The horn honking was very, very bad at the capital city though.
lady_ninane@reddit
The organizer was a self-professed white nationalist. They made no secret about their white nationalist rhetoric. And many people heard that and decided to join them.
If those people are uncomfortable about how others perceive them based on the company they keep, can I suggest not doing roadside BBQs with people who think the First Nations people should be extinguished and cracking jokes about how you think Justin Trudeau should catch a bullet??
MafubaBuu@reddit
99% of people that attended did it on the idea of "freedom" not "some dickhead at the helm nobodies ever heard of wanting to undemocratically topple JT"
Did you even talk to any of the people there yourself?
squidparkour@reddit
Pro tip: if you find yourself out with nazis, it doesn't matter what you think, you're in the wrong.
MafubaBuu@reddit
There weren't any nazis at 99.99% of the protest. The protests were Canada wide. If you think one dickhead flying a nazi flag for a few moments before being chased off (conveniently recorded just at that moment too) means Canadians across the country having bbqs to protest a vaccine mandate are nazis' you've lost the plot
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Toronto and Vancouver Canadians are only nice if you obey them. Otherwise, they're rude, violent, aggressive and emotional little tyrants who just speak with OH, Gee, Wow, like couching vile sentiments behind oh mys hides it.
8004612286@reddit
Are you aware that the truckers protest was neither in Toronto nor Vancouver?
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Yes, in Ottawa, the sinister third.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
this, it isnt misinformation, its what we find out beyond what politicians say, with a lot of problems not being resolved despite a promise of quick change.
democrats didn't deliver, promised they would, ended up alienating a lot of people, now look what happens.
J3sush8sm3@reddit
Nonono its definitely covids fault. Its strange that people cant understand that the left pushed away a whole group of young adults, then say its covid. It sounds like parents blaming video games for violence
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
thats basically it.
J3sush8sm3@reddit
This op ed is little irritating in my opinion, because now these kids are being told there is something wrong with them. People like different things and have different opinions.
squidparkour@reddit
Weird that you made a comment to shit on an opinion piece then.
Good. Being shitty far-right monsters with no sense of empathy IS bad. We should tell people not to be hateful.
J3sush8sm3@reddit
These kids arent far right, the term far right has been renamed to anything not liberalism. Its strange dude
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
But they did deliver.
And you're blaming Democrats while ignoring the Republican Senate majority.
It's like your expectations were unrealistic and rather than engage in self-examination or learn more about politics you fled into ignorance.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
where's the affordable housing? where's the lower prices? I DONT SEE THEM IN THIS BLUE CITY IN A BLUE STATE.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
No shit. But you just got further from ever having those.
Affordable housing comes with more efficient land use, and with policy and regulation to stop the uber rich from using homes as a commodity to profit off. You're getting the opposite from the right, they want the uber rich to have an easier time fucking you.
You want affordable housing... Tariffs are going to make materials cost more. Lack of labor is going to hit construction times. Building suburban sprawl is going to increase infrastructure costs.
And it's not just the cost of the house. The problem is that wages have stagnated while productivity has massively increased. The problem is the race to the bottom of employment conditions that the right desire. You earn less while the rich get larger profits.
The problem preventing affordable housing is capitalism.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
I have no idea how you ignore fundamental issues like overregulating bureucracy on small business, forced diversity, and everyone having a price, but you do you.
lady_ninane@reddit
You can't make a comment like this and then claim "forced diversity" is equivalent to the lack of assistance to growing small businesses and expect people to take such an unfounded claim seriously.
DEI isn't shutting out small businesses. Dying communities and being forced to compete with monopolistic mega corporations that import all their goods at far better rates then they could ever achieve is. It is asinine to pretend this is even on the same plane of importance and makes me question your understanding of what a small business even is.
Song_of_Pain@reddit
No, but the mainstream Democratic party has used racism and sexism as a weapon against people who threaten their donor class. So they're creating a frame of economic justice vs. social justice.
lady_ninane@reddit
I don't necessarily know whether that's a chicken or egg situation on the creation of the framing, but debating it isn't worthwhile. We largely agree: they rigidly maintain that rather than meaningfully engaging with either concern, and pretend that gains in one area by necessity requires sacrificing the other.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
You can just say that you're a resentful racist bigot who wants to deny that others exist. No need to hide who you are.
But hey, thanks for pointing out that you weren't actually interested in the reality of affordable housing.
TEETH666@reddit
Insane how you spout this when red states have had far better affordability for a generation now. And all of the blue state prosperity has been generated from nothing but federal money laundering. Way to toe the line. We should have all been laundering money with USAID
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
But red states don't have better affordability.
Hilarious.
Did you type that on your iphone?
Blue States subsidize Red states. Red states are the leach that need blue states to take from.
aMutantChicken@reddit
yes we did! and it was abhorent!
iwantsomeofthis@reddit
Yes... non-stop fucking truck horns for WEEKS is totally reasonable..... police wont do a fucking thing... those poor people of that city
so goddamn fucked you people are....
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
fwubglubbel@reddit
I don't know if you're joking but a lot of people believe that crap so I will explain. No. The bank accounts were never confiscated. Accounts were frozen if and only if they were receiving funds from illegal foreign entities.
No one was imprisoned for "honking horns", though they should have been because it is illegal to disturb the peace for days. Some wee imprisoned for illegally blocking the border crossing and causing many millions in losses.
CapableLocation5873@reddit
Are you talking about the clownvoy?
Where a lot of the donations came from outside of Canada?
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Oh god, the world supports something. We should also cut off the Catholic Church, the Queen of England, and Fifa if money going to things people support is somehow a long lost art.
It was a protest, and it worked. They blared horns around the place for days to show how intrusive lockdowns were for them. The elites refused to get the point and just started arresting people and crying.
CapableLocation5873@reddit
U ok?
Vegetable_Virus7603@reddit
Absolutely fine. This patronizing tone is absolutely moronic. It's the guilt tripping bullshit that assumes that anything that is vaguely out of line with what's formally said is taboo. This is why the spheres of academia and "proper" discourse are out of match with the way the actual youth and countries are moving.
CapableLocation5873@reddit
Ok…
Srinema@reddit
The convoy was organized by self-identified Nazis.
Peaceful protestors that were not disrupting an entire city were forced to disperse by the Superior Court of Ontario. They also had a valid reason to protest - to denounce a genocide.
The convoy, again organized by self-confessed Nazi Pat King, was to complain about public health measures. I personally saw three different pickup trucks with Nazi insignia on that first day - SS badges on a van, the Hakenkreuz flag flown on a lifted F150 pickup, an iron cross flag in the rear window of a Tesla.
These fuckers also edited video of indigenous events and falsely claimed they had the support of multiple indigenous nations.
They violated the law numerous times, and they were led by a fucking Nazi. I fully support freezing the bank accounts of Nazis like Pat King and Tamara Lich.
bureX@reddit
And their funding was coming from the US.
BradsCanadianBacon@reddit
Didn’t your President just pardon a bunch of people wrongfully convicted for showing up to a rally on Jan 6th? /s
Same energy.
valentc@reddit
And this line of thinking is exactly why people were so uninformed.
They gave the best guidance they had at the time. I don't know why people think that the government should immediately have all the best answers. They're still people.
As we learned more about the virus, better guidance was formed, but its insane that people think governments are infallible, and when they aren't, it's because they're trying to kill us.
So then idiots will go to with doctors and chiropractors for bad advice. People like you push this idea that the government intentionally giving out bad information is why we're in this situation.
But hey, why blame yourself or podcasters when you can blame the all-knowing government?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
When you were to just TRUST SCIENCE and DON'T QUESTION THE SCIENCE, science had become a religion.
valentc@reddit
No, science is about figuring things out. There's nothing wrong with questioning government decisions around the information we were given. But questioning facts a new virus being studied in the most advanced labs because Brenda on Facebook shared a meme isn't ok. You absolutely need to trust the experts more than charlatans online.
Do you understand how covid-19 works? Did you know what precautions to take before being told?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
"In the most advanced labs" oh hey look who drank the flavor aid.
The only non-chinese person at that lab is on record saying it was an absolute disaster of safety violations.
valentc@reddit
Hey, so you don't understand that there is more than one lab in the world, right?
You understand that Wuhan wasn't the only place where we study diseases, right? Or are you so brainwashed by bullshit that any time someone brings up the word lab, it triggers you?
I'm sorry, I didn't realize your brain had gotten so fried by covid bullshit that you're just genuinely stupid now. Have fun with bird flu.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
You'd defend the Umbrella Corporation at this rate.
D0UB1EA@reddit
broadly, you're not wrong, and I'm sick to fuck of all the people who publicly and loudly jack off to science like they're having a nationalist BBQ, but I'm not convinced by your position on Rona. I do distinctly remember a point when it was obviously airbone and the CDC was recommending everyone ignore that, but like. The vaccines worked. That's pretty damn important.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
the whole "My vaccine won't work unless you take it too."
D0UB1EA@reddit
Immunocompromised people couldn't take it. They were the worry. Get everyone else vaccinated and they're safe.
They're not safe. Good job dude.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
That's the thing, immunocompromised people who couldn't take the vaccine... were excluded from public places. "No vaccination card? NO ENTRY."
Good job dude.
D0UB1EA@reddit
Yeah, cause not enough people got vaccinated and the disease went endemic like the flu.
lady_ninane@reddit
Very pithy, except for the fact that it completely fabricates the scenario both what the questions were and what they were questioning to make it seem like it's absurd to trust the guidance.
If you want to try to actually critique people blindly trusting authority, you'd have to engage with what that authority actually is claiming and the way it clashes with the reality of the situation. I kinda feel like people who hew close to the "science has become a religion!!" argument don't like doing that.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Questioning science IS SCIENCE.
lady_ninane@reddit
Not every question asked is part of the scientific process, stop pretending like the people going "I'M GOING TO GET CO2 POISONING I DONT TRUST YOU MAKING ME MASK" is anywhere close to the same thing.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
It's almost like science has an answer ready to go for things like this instead of declaring that you can't question science.
AframFram@reddit
It's a sunk cost fallacy, you have been one of the people who liked to live in a fascist state who told you what to do. And now you have to protect your decisions from back than or you have to be honest to yourself: you have been manipulated, lied too and you have been marching with the bad guys.
onepareil@reddit
This is a really good point. One of the lessons we need to learn from the pandemic is that the way we communicate public health information to the public is really awful - at least I can say that in the U.S., sounds like you agree with that in Canada, and I’m sure it was true in many other countries as well. We both “dumb it down” too much and assume too much knowledge of how scientific and medical consensus are reached. To me, an infectious disease doctor, the constant changes in information and protocols were exhausting but understandable. That’s what it’s like, dealing with an emerging pathogen. But to a member of the public, I see how it could come across as public health organizations lying or being incompetent.
sigmaluckynine@reddit
We weren't any better. We have a lot of people that are anti vax and people that were against the mask measures. We're no better, it's just we don't have as many people so outside looking in it doesnt look like a lot of people.
Canadians hate saying this but we're no different from you Americans
mghicho@reddit
It wasn’t just the emerging nature of the new pathogen. It was also all the information that we hidden or not corrected because they thought it’s better for collective health that way. For example they knew transmission through surfaces had a very small chance after a few months but they didn’t correct it and let everyone wipe things all the time. Same with outdoor transmission, they knew the chances were small but kept asking for masks even outdoors
Dry-Season-522@reddit
I can certainly say this. Next plague, people aren't going to comply. People who went bankrupt and lost their homes because of orders 'for their own good' are never again going to trust the government is acting 'in their best interest'
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Remember when even suggesting the virus came from a lab was "RACIST" and "ANTI-SCIENCE" and you need to TRUST THE SCIENCE, DON'T QUESTION THE SCIENCE?
I do.
riskyrofl@reddit
So was the virus started by China, or was it a fake virus all along? Or did China create a fake virus?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Please stop spreading fake news.
No_Heart_SoD@reddit
Since it's not been proven in any way, it's still a stupid position.
8004612286@reddit
https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/28/politics/wray-fbi-covid-origins-lab-china/index.html
And guess what?
His theory can't be disproven because the sitting government didn't even bother to investigate.
No_Heart_SoD@reddit
It also can't be proven so?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
"And it can't be proven because they demolished the lab and never allowed any inspection and deny that which we have proof that they were working on so WE SHOULD TRUST THE CCP" - you
No_Heart_SoD@reddit
who said anything about trusting the CCCP. More importantly, what would your consequences be for that? a world war?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
"We're not allowed to investigate, so trust what the CCP said about it" - you
V-Lenin@reddit
Except dumbasses started following the people that were giving false guidance and lying. How many idiots starting taking ivermectin and getting sick because their cult leader said to
Early-Journalist-14@reddit
ftfy
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
This is a completely false misrepresentation though. It's oversimplifying intentionally to create a false narrative and to intentionally foster distrust.
Guidance changed as context changed and knowledge increased.
Simplifications and generalization are used to prevent confusion.
Dumbing down is necessary because you want to have everyone understand, not just the educated.
SweetLoLa@reddit
This needs to be brought up more often. Social media weaponized with propaganda, most can’t even name the three branches of government, and here we are.
Grotesque_Bisque@reddit
Even if they can, most can't articulate what exactly they do and why it's important they must remain sperate and equal in power
trias10@reddit
Checks and balances (related to separation of powers) are vastly overrated. Look what it has done to the US -- a schlerotic Congress paralysed by constant obstruction from whichever party is the minority, such that no meaningful legislation has been passed in 10 years, and as a consequence, the Supreme Court has become the de facto legislature.
Important social laws governing things like abortion, gun control, and presidential immunity are all things that a legislature should be controlling, which is what happens in other well-functioning countries like the UK. However, because the US has too many checks and balances and a bicameral legislature, the minority party can essentially block everything and shut down the legislature.
You need some checks+balances/separation of powers but not too many or else nothing will ever get done. There has to be a certain amount of whatever the opposite is (autocracy?).
AlbertaNorth1@reddit
When have the republicans really tried to pass meaningful legislation? The dems at least try to compromise and get some republican votes but tell me one piece of legislation that the dems could’ve honestly voted yes on without betraying their core base?
SamuelClemmens@reddit
Republicans try to pass A LOT of meaningful legislation. But meaningful to them isn't meaningful to Democrats and are usually more classified as "terrifying".
AlbertaNorth1@reddit
What legislation are they actively trying to pass now that would actually help anybody but the obscenely rich?
SamuelClemmens@reddit
See, there you go, misunderstanding the term meaningful and even the concept of "help".
Their base is willingly trading material wealth for what they (as Y'all Qaeda) see as a spiritual win (AKA making life even worse for marginalized people who aren't part of their religious subcommunity).
That is proving "meaning" to their base. Their base sees that as helping their main cause. You can't fight against that until you understand that. They don't have the same values as you and don't weigh the pros and cons of things the same way as you.
trias10@reddit
My point transcends individual party politics, I'm not making any commentary on left vs right.
My point is that the American system is stupid, there are far too many checks and balances, especially in the legislature, such that the minority party can halt every piece of legislation if it wants to, for example, as you put it, because it "betrays their core principles." If you have a two party system where both parties are diametrically opposed to one another, such that they have no principles in common, then whichever party is the minority will naturally block everything of the majority, and vice versa, so that nothing ever gets done.
It's even worse with America's judicial system, because anyone can endlessly sue anyone else, including the states and federal government, and there are endless appeals. This further stymies any growth and development of society. Congress can't act because the minority party blocks everything, so the president tries to act by issuing executive orders (Joe Biden tried to reduce student debt, Trump tried to end birthright citizenship) in both cases there were lawsuits upon lawsuits, everything gets jammed up for years in litigation, and then appealed.
Hence, the SCOTUS has become so powerful, because it's the one avenue where there is no appealing, and the ruling is final and all encompassing. In theory, SCOTUS can be checked by Congress passing laws, but if Congress is constantly paralysed, then SCOTUS becomes the de facto legislature, which is very bad. Nine unelected wankers shouldn't control the lives of 350 million people.
This is a huge problem and part of why America is failing as a county. It's operating system is poorly designed and fundamentally flawed, there are too many ways to block and stymie everything, too many separation of powers, too many checks and balances. Doesn't matter which side of the political aisle you sit on, the country cannot grow and evolve because it can't pass laws.
You need a certain amount of autocracy in a functional government for things to get done. In the UK for example, Parliament passes laws with a simple majority vote, so whichever party is the majority can enact their agenda completely, there's no way to block it. Thus, shit gets done, for better or worse.
nilsecc@reddit
The fact there’s only two parties is the actual problem. Im not sure you’re analysis holds.
trias10@reddit
Mathematically, with FPTP voting systems, there can only ever be two parties, so that's a given and a constant. Condorcet and Arrow both proved this.
My analysis is still correct.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
Let's not pretend we're any better than these people. Before Trump got elected Redditors were frothing at the mouth demanding Biden pack the Court with zero thought about the implications of a Republican coming into office and doing it back at them.
Glorious_z@reddit
This is the important part. American education is just memorizing terms and regurgitating them. Our education system was designed like this, just making people smart enough to run the machines and not think any further. The slide into authoritarianism is the eventual end for a population of stupid people. I should know, I'm one of em.
Lezzles@reddit
Why do you think this is uniquely American? You think China is out there creating the next generation of free thinkers?
Glorious_z@reddit
Never really said that, just said my experience on my American education. I don't think I ever mentioned China, but don't be surprised if they and other countries take advantage of our brain drain.
Lezzles@reddit
Right, but you mentioned that American education is just "memorizing terms and regurgitating them". What giganto-country is turning out better free thinkers?
sigmaluckynine@reddit
Don't you think you're being awfully sensitive
Glorious_z@reddit
I don't know and never claimed to, I only spoke on my experience. I don't know why you're trying to get to compare my education to other nations, I went to school in the US with some college courses. I can't in good faith compare and contrast another education system I haven't experienced.
On the other hand i don't think a metric of "free thinkers per capita exists". Maybe you'll have to do some research on that and tell me what you find.
Grotesque_Bisque@reddit
They want you to think "America might be bad, but China is so much worse than basically we don't have to improve the country at all" Soooo bad lmfao.
MyMommaHatesYou@reddit
Nah son. Eternal wage slave who produces future wage slaves so the elite can buy a 13th car or 3rd yacht. Trump said it out loud. He loves the uneducated.
Glorious_z@reddit
We agree :)
stuartdenum@reddit
american here, half the country can’t read this sentence
Kolada@reddit
Sure, but this isn't a result of the social media. The balance of the powers has been continuously shifted towards the executive for the last 40 years at least and no one has given a fuck until this month. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy people are waking up to it, but no one should act like this is surprising.
LanaDelHeeey@reddit
Neither can Congress with all the powers it has granted the executive over the years
SiegelGT@reddit
Weaponized social media is the greatest social engineering tool ever devised by humanity.
Song_of_Pain@reddit
It's also Democrats supporting economic policy that left millennials and Gen Z out to dry.
Not that Republicans were much better, but they said they were going to do something about it.
pants_mcgee@reddit
What economic policy are you talking about? The Democrats are the only ones trying to actually improve the country.
NovaHellfire345@reddit
Improve the country for who? Its not been the middle class, it's not been the lower class, it's not been the homeless. They have done wonders for the 1%.
az4th@reddit
One of the issues is that improving rural america is challenging, and most of rural taxpayer moneys go to improving the cities.
Or at least that's understandably how it appears to rural americans.
You've got a lot of home owners out there who don't have access to good jobs and earn their income by charging rent, and don't want to pay property taxes, when any improvements to grading their dirt road they have to pay for themselves.
IMO it is an important thing for political opponents of the GOP to consider finding better creative solutions to. High speed internet access was a nice start.
Swimming-Bite-4184@reddit
There is a reason the last few elections have been marketed as "lesser of two evils" and not on actions as a whole. "At least we are not them", isnt we are doing everything we can to make things better for those struggling. People were not seeing progress or change as buying a home got out of reach, and medical bills and debt skyrocketed. Trying is not always doing. I think they were the mist viable option but again a low bar they have yet to see the reality of.
Calvin_Ball_86@reddit
It's been marketed that way by right wing propaganda though. Or Russian.
Harris had very detailed, very specific plans to help the average person and she talked about them constantly. If you didn't her then you might be trapped in an info bubble.
Song_of_Pain@reddit
Getting money out of politics. Stopping politicians from insider trading.
Single payer healthcare. Raising taxes on the ultra-wealthy.
gigilu2020@reddit
I think Covid rearranged brains and made people more fearful and more reactive.
DustyFalmouth@reddit
9/11 and COVID both gave Americans irreparable brain damage
drgr33nthmb@reddit
The government weaponized their own propaganda
nam4am@reddit
Social media obviously plays a role, but it's stupid to ignore the role of lockdowns in this. Social media use increased vastly more before COVID than it has since.
If you told someone 10 years ago that a political party would widely associate itself with ordering young people to put their entire lives on hold for well over a year to protect almost exclusively old people, it wouldn't exactly be surprising that that party would lose some support among the young (and likely improve slightly among the old, as the Democrats did in 2024).
It also coincided with basically every mainstream corporate, sports, entertainment etc. organization adopting performative, moralistic politics. Again, it's hardly surprising that some naturally rebellious and questioning young people are going to push back on that, just like previous generations did against similar moralizing from the insufferable Christian right, "moral majority" types.
Dry-Season-522@reddit
Well when people are told for years "Trust us, not your own eyes" they're going to shift.
Isphus@reddit
Was it
No, it must be the social media!
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
Or when the huge protests started out in the street, multiple mainstream institutions saying that the rioting in the streets was safe and wouldn't spread the coronavirus (and that racism was a bigger threat to public health than the global pandemic). After people weren't allowed to go to the beach or parks, or visit family members in the hospital, or attend church or... etc etc.
loggy_sci@reddit
Which mainstream institutions said that racism was a bigger threat to public health than the global pandemic?
Sorry you couldn’t go visit grandma in the hospital while people were dying in the hallways from COVID.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
This work for you?
The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31353-2/fulltext
The Lancet: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31371-4/fulltext
Open Letter: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jyfn4Wd2i6bRi12ePghMHtX3ys1b7K1A/view
loggy_sci@reddit
lol of course those links don’t say what you claim they do. If it were white people out there protesting against something “woke” you would have zero problem with this.
The links say racism is a public health issue (it is), than racism kills more black people than Covid (it does), and it urged people to wear masks and social distance if they were at a protest.
I swear you make it too easy to call out your obvious bullshit.
They say that racism
WarOnFlesh@reddit
but all that was under trump....
blackheartwhiterose@reddit
This isn't limited to America
Trilobyte141@reddit
And then they voted for the asshole whose half-baked policies would make every part of that worse.
So vote against the party that has actually reduced the deficit before!
So vote against social security!
So vote against the party that supports unions, higher minimum wage, and social workers for seniors!
It WAS both safe and effective, and those lies came during shitler's administration (and weren't even lies, just a factor of changing information affecting guidelines as it is supposed to.)
Vote for the guy whose new best friend deletes anyone who disagrees with him from his "free speech" platform!
Only because people ignored it and went out anyway. Funny how things don't work if you don't do them.
Vote for the party that all the wealth concentrated into!
Fucking idiots.
superdupercereal2@reddit
Because the left leaning states in the US when given the authority to control your lives took full opportunity to do so. Then they ridiculed everyone from their basements, many of whom have yet to come out.
loggy_sci@reddit
Trump was for vaccinations until he turned it into a partisan political issue and his followers gobbled it up.
superdupercereal2@reddit
A lot of people were in favor of those with risk factors to get vaccinated. Most I'd say. It was how then it'd stop the spread, then there will be some breakthrough cases, then everyone will still get COVID and you'd all have to get boosted. Oh, and not only the risk averse but also young people and children have to get the vaccine. And boosted. Also, if you aren't sure about the COVID vaccine now you're antivax, and a plague rat. And reddit allows a sub that glorifies the deaths of people from COVID based on their alleged political affiliation. STFU lol.
loggy_sci@reddit
Because young people and children can spread Covid.
And the vaccine was fine. 8 billion doses have been given, how many people did the vaccine itself kill? Meanwhile over a million Americans died from Covid because Trump didn’t want to deal with it.
Plague rats are all the poor kids spreading measles because their emancipated prepper moms think colloidal silver will save them from a disease vaccines has more or less eradicated. Conservatives are driving humanity in reverse.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed
Meanwhile, Biden, Harris, and Pelosi publically stated they would not trust a vaccine produced under the Trump administration, then those exact same vaccines were magically "safe and effective" after the elections. I can pull up the videos if you'd like.
You're not a particularly bright person, are you?
loggy_sci@reddit
Biden said he didn’t trust Trump, not that he didn’t trust vaccines in general. He said they wanted outside experts to endorse the vaccine, because Trump was saying shit like the vaccine would be ready by a “very special date” there were concerns he was pushing it through untested. It should come as no surprise to anyone that trumo was playing politics with the vaccine and was not guided by the science. Never has been.
You’re mainlining too much right-wing news and it’s rotting your brain.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Factually wrong: Wash Po: Biden questions whether a vaccine approved by Trump would be safe
loggy_sci@reddit
You clearly didn’t read the article:
The issue was that Trump was pushing a vaccine to be delivered by Oct so that he could campaign on it, despite the fact that it wasn’t going to be ready. When it was finally approved under Biden Trump was against it because he is a petty, vindictive dickhead with tiny baby hands.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Surely the CDC and FDA, two highly respected and impartial organizations*, would not allow Trump to release these vaccines before they were properly tested.
*sarcasm
loggy_sci@reddit
He was pushing them to, hence Biden comments. Turns out they didn’t, and the vaccines were safe. Glad you agree.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
But the CDC and FDA are respected experts who should be trusted at all times, without question. How could Trump possibly push them to do anything that was unethical? Biden has been in government for decades, surely he should have known better than to publically cast doubt on such outstanding institutions.
loggy_sci@reddit
That is literally not anyone’s argument but you tried it.
Hows trumps ass taste?
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Jesus, you're all over the place. The narrative you've invented is the exact opposite of what actually occured.
loggy_sci@reddit
Not really. I’m sorry you’re not able to follow a cogent argument and need to try and put words in people’s mouths.
JoJoeyJoJo@reddit
Trump told his supporters to get the vaccine. Biden is the one casting doubt on vaccines, while saying he "trusts vaccines", it's complete doublespeak, if he trusted them he wouldn't be casting doubt on them.
loggy_sci@reddit
It’s not doublespeak you literally just didn’t read the quote. Biden talked about how much he and Trump agreed that vaccines were good. Your weirdo revisionist history that Biden was against the vaccine is so goofy.
Trump got booed by Republicans for getting a booster and was absolutely against vaccine mandates. He is still going after schools that require vaccines as a way to pay back his ridiculous supporters.
QoLAccount@reddit
The vaccine was rolled out 1 month before Biden became president (rollout started \~Dec 14th 2020 according to google, Joe was inaugurated 20 Jan 2021) by that stage there was a full month of data to support it was effective.
I would prefer someone able to swallow their pride & be wrong for the betterment of his people than be adamant about being right until it hurts his people.
As it feels your suggesting that Biden should have stood on principle & stopped the work on the vaccines even after vaccination had started & there would have been new data on its effectiveness to review?
Dry-Season-522@reddit
They never truly had a problem with the authoritarian boot, just which side of it they were on.
superdupercereal2@reddit
I was (and still am) more left than I am right. I'm not into authoritarianism though.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
EVERYONE swung right in the last election. Women, minorities, immigrants, etc...
People weren't happy about the direction the country is going in 2024 and the dems ran a pretty terrible campaign. The results are about as you'd expect.
nam4am@reddit
Whites and voters 65+ both voted more Democratic in 2024. Voters 65+ went from the most Republican age group to less Republican than the country as a whole.
2020: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-elections/exit-polls/
2024: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls?amp=1
WarOnFlesh@reddit
This is not true. The country didn't swing right much at all. The left just didn't show up. It's not that more people voted for trump, it's only that his percentage went up because more people stayed home.
It's important, but it's not the same thing.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
WarOnFlesh@reddit
you'll notice that my argument was in response to someone saying that every demographic got more conservative. In your store analogy, let's say there are 2 stores. Last year Store A had 100 customers and Store B had 104 customers.
This year Store A had 99 customers and Store B had 98.
I hope you can see that is not the same as more people converted to Store A.
loggy_sci@reddit
But actually this person isn’t wrong. You claim that everyone swung left but the voting doesn’t really support that. It was a pretty narrow victory for Trump.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
By this definition then COVID didn't actually push voters to the right like the headline says, the article itself says Trump lost under-30s by a 51-47 margin.
Voters across the board became red-ER, but obviously didn't flip over.
loggy_sci@reddit
You can’t look at a single election result and say that it means that a generation of people swung one way or another. Apathy towards Harris could explain better than Covid or some ideological shift to the right.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
Yeah the article itself is a bit of a clickbait/deflection piece.
Literally in its own second paragraph:
> Precisely polling teens and 20-somethings is a fraught business; some surveys suggest that Trump’s advantage among young people might already be fading.
I_Am_Become_Dream@reddit
I’d say people have become incredibly apathetic to the democratic party. The 2020 election was energized by Trump, not Biden. It’s hard to do the same thing in 2024 when he’s not president, and no one cared about Biden or Kamala in 2020 or 2024.
PerforatedPie@reddit
More to the point, every incumbent that had an election in 2024 lost vote share. People blame the covid recovery economy on the person in power.
Johnthebest15@reddit
This 100%.
In other countries, you saw incumbent parties struggle in elections for similar reasons. Their administrations bore the brunt of the COVID inflation and struggled to put together an economic policy that would keep them in power. Right or left.
kevlarbaboon@reddit
What was the wrong with the Dem's campaign? It was far from perfect but the other guy was Donald Trump and Kamala Harris isn't senile. Oh right people I guess really hate trans people so let's destroy the country. A+, inflation cured.
See you in the civil war or whatever.
Quinnethy@reddit
Go on the National Institute of Health website and search "health effects of long-term mask use" and see what your precious Fauci is really like. "If one mask is good then it stands to reason that two masks is better." No, one mask will just make you more likely to have health problems. Ironically wearing masks long term weakens the parts of your body that COVID attacks. Kinda like cutting your seatbelt before getting in a crash. Fauci would have known this.
"Two weeks to stop the spread" and they kept us in those masks for 2yrs+ slowly destroying our blood vessels bringing oxygen to our brains, and our hearts, and our lungs.
People were tired of being lied to during the pandemic. They started paying attention and seeing the lies and they decided to try something new. People were told that "Bidenomics was working" and that "the economy was great" all while gas was over $5 a gallon and food prices were breaking the bank.
People were told there was no migrant problem while migrants were taking over apartments, pushing people in front of subways, and setting people on fire.
Blaming a COVID shift is underestimating the perceptiveness of people. People are tired of being lied to.
Personal_Lab_484@reddit
I remember them lying to us in the UK that it would be a few weeks. Then, even when we knew us young people would be fine. Forcing me to lose 2 years of my life for what?
Then we got the vaccines out and we spent a summer fucking around with masks and apps. Even though once again, we knew it was either the vaccines worked or they didn’t.
All to find out had we lived in fucking Florida, without the restrictions we’d have ended up about the same place we were.
So good job UK. Wasted 2 years for fuck all.
So jealous of Americans sometimes
codenamelynx@reddit
??? Ah yes, let's just stand still and let the unknown virus that kills sweep over. This was the first time a new, highly contagious virus showed up in a VERY long time.
If you recall, there wasn't just one dose of the vaccine, there were multiple and not everyone got theirs at the same time. It is absolutely the right call to take every safety measure, even if they are over the top so way less people die. Millions of Americans died because Trump didn't ''trust'' the vaccines, which right-wing people agree with (the individual in charge of the US department of health...)
To add, getting the covid vaccine doesn't make you immune to the virus, you could still get ill, it just prepares your immune system to fight it better, lessening your symptoms and the strain on emergency services.
''Lose 2 years''. Brother, you have 60+ years to go. I don't know if you suffer from FOMO, but you're speaking like you had your whole life taken away. If one of your family members died of covid, you would be singing a completely different tune.
Personal_Lab_484@reddit
Two of my family died of Covid. They were very old and were getting Covid one way or another.
That’s my point really. We were all going to get Covid anyway so once we had rolled out vaccines to the vulnerable it was just a gigantic waste of fucking time.
codenamelynx@reddit
It is not just about death. Plenty of young people were also hospitilised. Such a contagious virus with heavy symptoms (and sometimes, lasting damage) hitting the public at the same time is disastrous for every industry (especially the medical field).
You absolutely have to be cautious with this. The US had the most infection cases and deaths in the world from Covid due to Trump's negligence. Coincidentally, the US was also the most vocal about ''waaah masks, waah my life because I can't go outside''...
Personal_Lab_484@reddit
Nonsense. Everyone was going to catch the virus anyway we caused untold hell for everyone for 2 years and the death rate in the US and UK was about the same anyway.
If you lived in Florida you suffered less restrictions and the same health outcome.
The second the vaccine was out we should have reopened but we wasted months more on propaganda and fear.
It was moral cowardice .
QoLAccount@reddit
Can't deny your experience in the UK in particular but in the rest of the EU, we averaged less deaths than the US with lockdowns, even when the US' data starts to get unreliable in mid 2021 onward as many states stopped reporting accurately.
Maybe it's more of a government issue there in the UK. Lockdowns when applied with sense absolutely did work. Have you considered your anger is justified yet misplaced?
https://cepr.org/voxeu/columns/us-excess-mortality-rate-covid-19-substantially-worse-europes
Personal_Lab_484@reddit
I’ve considered this deeply to be fair and I am convinced we should have sheltered the elderly as best as possible. Recognises the virus was never being eradicated like the lunatic ‘no covid’ people thought.
Developed and distributed the vaccine as best we could, waited for it to take effect and then opened up totally. We wasted months going on a year fucking around.
China, went on for another 2 years post vaccine.
QoLAccount@reddit
Ye that's reasonable, glad to hear as I will say your comment was making me think you were further on the 'no lockdown at all' side but I understand you now.
codenamelynx@reddit
''Untold hell''. Talk about propaganda and fear. I bet you'd still say the same even if it was just a year.
Anyway, you can't drop all safety just because a vaccine is out. You need to wait for all doses to be given (doses were months apart and everyone got theirs at different times) and study its effects.
Was it longer than it needed to be? Yes, sure, but you can't play around with viruses. If anything, this was a test run of how the modern world would handle a pandemic and learn from there.
China and Japan did much better despite being much more strict.
Personal_Lab_484@reddit
China had 3 years of lockdown including welding people into buildings.
It’s immaterial I was right at the start. Ignore the government. Get the vaccine and move on with life.
Happily enough people agree with me now you lot can never do it again.
nam4am@reddit
Redditors can't understand how ordering young people to put their lives on hold on and off for 2+ years during the prime of their lives might turn some of them away and further associate your brand with policing people's lives rather than improving them.
Zagereth@reddit
Smooth brains who can't conceptualize what the next hundred years will look like. Too bad they'll wish for those 2 years of isolation once we don't have another election.
Cautious_Implement17@reddit
that’s the entire point. teenagers can barely conceptualize being 21, having a full time job, etc. they can regurgitate left or right talking points, but they completely lack the perspective to actually understand consequences over an entire century.
Trilobyte141@reddit
Nice to know that being an idiot isn't limited to this side of the pond.
strangetines@reddit
There's a much simpler and much more likely answer to this phenomenon - counter culture. Millennials and especially millennial women are overwhelmingly left wing and self described progressives. Their children don't think their mothers and fathers are cool, it's also why the zoomers don't drink, fuck or take drugs at anywhere near the same rate their parents did, cokes much less cool when you hear your dad doing it in the toilet when he gets home from the pub at night, not is sexual proclivity so hot when your mother's on her third man of the week.
They're just rebelling against the status quo.
Right-Fee-8972@reddit
Complete bullshit.
strangetines@reddit
Another fantastic rebuttal from Reddit. Keep up the good work lil buddy.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
Covid hit during our developmental years, it hit us HARD right as we entered voting age, being locked up and unable to adult comfortably.
And what did the government do? blame each other for the shit that happened and let us have the free time to think.
turns out, the party that spent all this time going after one guy, being super paranoid that he could win again, while fearmongering about "threats to our livelihoods", ended up fufilling their own prophecies.
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
So what they shouldn't have warned about what is happening right now?
The Democrats deserve criticism because they aren't able to fight for the working American. Whether that's because they're in bed with the billionaires or because of endless obstruction by the GOP and SCOTUS or something else. (It's all of this)
Their warnings about Trump? Seem right on the fricking money.
He DID win again. He is doing what they warned about.
They didn't do a good job of presenting a better option, but frankly nearly ANYTHING is a better option. This is on people who wanted easy solutions and weren't interested in learning anything
Trilobyte141@reddit
Fuck, this drives me insane. The Democrats did a FINE job of presenting another option, but the media shined no lights on it. The propaganda machine doesn't just lie and smear, it also obfuscates. Right wing fucks like murdoch and musk gave shitler a microphone and a 24/7 platform. I barely ever saw Kamala on the news compared to him. Should she have acted like a stupid clown and sucked up to a bunch of billionaires? Because that's what gets you the air time, but I'm pretty sure you can't beat the orange stain at that game.
The Democrats can yell until they are blue in the face and run as many ads as they can afford, and it's still not going to get the message out when their opponents have access to a ton of free publicity and algorithms shut them out.
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
No they didn't.
Their plan was basically continue as we are with some minor tweaks.
We are better than these assholes isn't a positive message or a plan.
It SHOULD have been enough because of how bad and awful the Trump option was/ is. I agree. But it was not a message of improvement.
It was enough for me because I paid attention. It was not enough for the low information people.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Trump was a Democrat for most of his adult life. He donated regularly to the Clinton Foundation, even had those two deplorable fucks as his wedding to Melania. You know who Jared Kushner's dad is? Spent time in prison for illegal campaign contributions, amongst other things. Guess who was getting the money?
Someone recently said America is a one party system like China, and that party is the Capitalist party. Democrats and Republicans are just two sides of the same shitty coin. Stop letting them play you.
loggy_sci@reddit
If you think Democrats and Republicans are the same then you haven’t been paying attention to US politics in any meaningful way for about ~15 years?
You made up your mind that both parties are the same but they absolutely are not. Perhaps focus on Irish politics instead.
Trilobyte141@reddit
One side isn't trying to drive my cousin towards suicide for not being born male, and one side didn't just tank my dementia-suffering loved one's chance to get Medicaid, and one side hasn't set out to violate my human rights and make me a second class citizen in my own country.
Fuck your "both sides" bullshit.
And shitler switching sides means one thing only: he realized the Democrats would not deliver him power because they would not tolerate his bullshit. He knew exactly who would though.
roundelay11@reddit
That's one way to put it. I instead like to say the D's and the R's are the left and the right boot on the same person stomping on your throat.
Chef_Sizzlipede@reddit
I wouldnt even call it capitalist since that'd imply they'd let businesses run themselves.
NOPE.
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
Trump isn't politic, he's just a selfish narcissist with no morality.
People like yourself who consider Democrats and Republicans currently as the same are ludicrous. The Democrats are divided about best actions to take, the Republicans are tearing down the government in the open.
Citizens United is a huge cause of how we got here. You can't get elected without spending vast money, and the only people who can give vast money are the rich. Hence ever escalating influence from the richest. How did we get to citizens United? A multi decade campaign by right aligned especially the federalist society.
There are Democrats who actually put the people first, over themselves. Not all obviously but some. There are no GOP members willing to even pretend to stand up for the little guy or to stand up to executive overreach.
So no it's not like China. Clown
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Your daily reminder that The Atlantic is owned by Steve Jobs' ex. What an absolute rag. lol
No, covid did not push anyone anywhere. The blatant lies from the establishment obliterated what little trust there was between government officials and the general public. They seem to believe everyone is incredibly stupid and never questions the narrative. While that may be true in most cases, there are plenty of people willing to push back on the nonsense. We watched as those people were banned from social media. We watched as Anthony Fauci lied through his fucking teeth to a congressional committee. We see what's going on. It's not pushing us to the far right, it's pushing us away from these amoral sociopaths who will do anything for more wealth and power.
valentc@reddit
Ah, one of you, "the government need to always be perfect" types.
Yeah, by immediately believing right-wing bullshit about covid instead of waiting for more information. All of what the government told you was based on their current information. Not lies.
Yeah, telling people to drink horse dewormer and to ignore actually effective treatment is bad. Idk if you know this, but intentionally poisoning people for money is a crime, and that's what all the colloidal silver and ivermecton idiots were pushing.
Yet you think the billionaire class has your best interest in mind? Not your elected officials, but BILLIONAIRES who would scam you without thinking for an extra dollar? 🤣😂😂🤣🤣 Everything you just said is Elon Musk.
Have fun working and living in an Amazon city. Enjoy that free 8 hours off a week and one cup of water a day.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
People like you are exactly why everything is so fucked. gg
loggy_sci@reddit
Why, because they listened to the CDC? Get a grip.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Robert Redfield, Director of the CDC between 2018 and 2021.
Yeah, you're an idiot if you blindly trust anyone in a white lab coat.
loggy_sci@reddit
You cannot be serious. You just copy/pasted a wiki article about Robert Redfield and the AIDS crisis? Honey I’m a gay man who lived thru that crisis so you can take a seat.
“Well this agency isn’t perfect and this one guy is an asshole, so you should definitely not listen to what scientists have to say about infectious diseases”. I bet you don’t wash your hands after you shit because a doctor in a lab coat told you to:
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Oh really? What a coincidence. So what is your opinion of Anthony Fauci's public claim in 1984 that HIV was casually transmitted based on a single case of an infected infant? This claim, broadcast on national television to millions of Americans, led to thousands of gay men being fired from their jobs and evicted from their homes. Surely, as a gay man who lived through that crisis, you have a unique perspective to share.
loggy_sci@reddit
Well my perspective is that you don’t give a shit about the AIDS crisis beyond it allowing you to soapbox about the CDC. You certainly didn’t bother to learn that Fauci ended up being respected by AIDS activists and is an important figure in the fight against the disease. He dedicated most of his professional life and public service to the fight against HIV/AIDS and is incredibly well-respected.
You seem to have a real tough time grasping that when scientists and public health officials are trying to understand an emerging disease that they will get things wrong. Again, take a seat.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
lol
Szeth-son-Kaladaddy@reddit
Oh, a handwaving democrat that says I don’t understand my own issues I face and that actually I’m too dumb to see all the good Dems do.
PetalumaPegleg@reddit
Which "blatant lies" do you refer to exactly?
Because everyone I know who says this mixes mostly truth or best information at the time in with some nonsense and uses it to claim everything is a lie and we should have listened to conspiracy theories the whole time. As if they aren't much more full of shit.
giant_shitting_ass@reddit
She's an associate of Gislane Maxwell and a known Democratic donor as well a friend of Kamala Harris.
The Atlantic has been her personal mouthpiece ever since she bought it.
demonspawns_ghost@reddit
Pure scum, the whole lot of them.
AssociationDouble267@reddit
Who would have guessed that forcing young people to make social and economic sacrifices for something that was never a threat to them would jade their politics. Next up, read about how a conscription during and unpopular war can lead to protest movements on college campuses.
CompetitiveAdMoney@reddit
Trump was the president before and when covid started. If it was a lab leak he allowed Fauci to move the restarted GOF research to China that Obama banned. He scrapped the pandemic playbook from petty hatred of Obama and stupidity and allowed it grow faster and wider, he denied covid was a problem for too long, he didnt send out masks and politcized it killing his own voters.
AssociationDouble267@reddit
Everything you just wrote is correct, but it doesn’t change my fundamental point. Young voters are angry about Covid and, rightly or wrongly, they assign most of that blame to the left. My suspicion is they aren’t as mad that Covid happened, and they’re more mad about the onerous restrictions well after we understood it was an overreaction. Mask mandates did suddenly start going away in mid-2022 when it became obvious that they were a political liability.
tburtner@reddit
I would have respected it if Republicans said COVID is a real problem but we shouldn't lock everything down. But that's not what they did. Instead, Trump lied to us. He said this on February 26, 2020.
"And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done,"
Even at the time he said it, it was obviously untrue to anyone who was paying attention. I'm just a regular person and I knew just from watching the news. Trump had been briefed on it. He had access to experts. And he decided to lie to us.
stuaxo@reddit
COVID didn't push people to the right, deli erate misinformationduring COVID did, including stickering campaigns, whatsapp groups, the lot.
What was learned then was used and iterated on for further campaigns.
We were all there, it's not that long ago.
AframFram@reddit
You mean the government making about lies on a daily basis? Forcing people to get experimental treatment on a large scale? Forcing people out of their job, because they would not march in line?
The only thing covid did was eroding the trust into corrupt institutions. You reap what you sow.
Even if you hate the mainstream media. You don't hate them enough.
AframFram@reddit
So the government lied about Covid, people could see how the propaganda was full of shit and now they are surprised why only idiots are still walking in line with the lying main stream media? surprised pichachu face
codenamelynx@reddit
This is all because misinformation is rampant and literacy levels are tanking. I see so many right-wingers glued to social media, seeing one video with misinformation and preaching it as gospel. People are fooled to think they know how things work and given false promises.
This just shows how easy it is to manipulate young people online.
mint445@reddit
it is not Right, people are falling for Kremlin's propaganda, because they are lacking critical thinking skills and media literacy - education has failed them
NewManufacturer4252@reddit
Makes sense, trap a kid in a room with a computer and boredom and hate, then unleash the 1st generation of really competent media social engineering.
We haven't even begun to understand how the internet affects minds, and no one is paying attention.
Sell everything ever about you, game the system to make you outraged, etc.
IMissMyWife_Tails@reddit
As expected, the neoliberal media is gonna blame everything on the rise of far-right parties except for the actual reason (immigration) and they get surprised when anti-immigration party is on the rise.
fwubglubbel@reddit
the neoliberal media
That doesn't mean what you think it means. Look it up.
17RicaAmerusa76@reddit
I mean, neoliberalism, being about free trade, privatization and largely pro immigration, might not want to point the finger at immigration being a problem.
I mean, probably not what they meant, you're right.. but you could twist it a bit and make it work. Although they were probably using it in the jimmy dore/ chapo sense of neoliberal=chud, whatever that means.
MaffeoPolo@reddit
The shift to the right was obvious two decades ago, COVID was just an accelerant of trends.
Democracy was in question ever since the slippery slope of 9/11 when the US quickly enacted the Patriot act. The Cold War with Russia acted as a check on the ambitions of US politicians. Once the US was the only game in town, the ambitions of US politicians had no limit. They quickly overwhelmed the EU leaders, who simply signed where pointed. The policies enacted were more and more obviously against their people, but cemented the power of the billionaire and political class.
How is any of this a surprise?
PandaCheese2016@reddit
I too was pretty dumb when I was younger (though I'd like to think still smarter than the average bear...), but at no point was I dumb enough to vote for Nazis. However, I also feel that the social media generations really didn't have a chance to accumulate a credible worldview before the onslaught of misinformation.
new_name_who_dis_@reddit
It was a smart move for Trump to fire that virus research team in Wuhan back in 2018. I think we can expect another pandemic sometime soon to happen accidentally
TheSwedishEagle@reddit
The funny part to me is that the guy who was President when it all went down is the guy that was elected again. You can’t vote against the establishment by voting for an incumbent’s predecessor. Well, you can’t vote against, but not if you are expecting anything to change. Donald already had his chance. What people think would be different this time?
makes_beer@reddit
Sane people voted against the VP of mandatory injections. Deny it in any way you want, but we lived through it and didn't want it again.
mountaininsomniac@reddit
Well, he just posted “long live the king” so he’s doing something different anyway.
FrodoCraggins@reddit
People saw what the government did in response to the working class getting even a bit of power. That's why. The federal reserve in the US was intentionally trying to keep wages from rising, and the Canadian government decided to import the entire population of Punjab and remove every possible restriction on the jobs and the amount of hours 'international students' were allowed to work. A betrayal like that definitely turns people against the government in power.
mghicho@reddit
It wasn’t just the emerging nature of the new pathogen. It was also all the information that we hidden or not corrected because they thought it’s better for collective health that way. For example they knew transmission through surfaces had a very small chance after a few months but they didn’t correct it and let everyone wipe things all the time. Same with outdoor transmission, they knew the chances were small but kept asking for masks even outdoors
ppmi2@reddit
It might have made it worse, but "based" culture was already alive and well in the 201X it was born out of a reaction to the wave of feminisim that is atributed stuff like gamer gate and other similar stuff.
Early-Journalist-14@reddit
Specifically the sceptic community in the atheism space, for one.
The chain of events in the spheres i was in that led to a slow change of the overton window further and further left was:
2011 - occupy wallstreet
2012 - atheism+
2014 - gamergate
2015 - bernie gets shafted
2016 - trump has every social media platform out there censor his supporters
from there, most of you are either happy with the insanely partisan media landscape you live in, or you know the various further issues like certain issues becoming literal dogma for either side.
Icy-Bicycle-Crab@reddit
Gamer gate was a big part of it. The far right saw that and jumped on board with it seeing the opportunity to turn resentment into extremism.
Howamimeanttodothat@reddit
Why didn’t we get these ‘studies’ when the younger generations were brainwashed to vote for centre left/ liberal parties? People are seeing through years of failed liberal governments and want change. Just because the centre left consider a group far right, doesn’t mean they’re far right. Remember, they’re the ones who call people Nazis who dare question anything about mass immigration.
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
empleadoEstatalBot@reddit
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coverageanalysisbot@reddit
Hi empleadoEstatalBot,
We've found 3 sources (so far) that are covering this story including:
Townhall (Right): "Is This What Caused Young People to Move Toward the Right?"
Political Wire (Center): "How Covid Pushed a Generation to the Right"
The Atlantic (Leans Left): "How COVID Pushed a Generation of Young People to the Right"
Of all the sources reporting on this story, 33% are left-leaning, 33% are right-leaning, and 33% are in the center. Read the full coverage analysis and compare how 3+ sources from across the political spectrum are covering this story.
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