Why are most countries so generous to retirees?
Posted by LeopoldPaulister@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 71 comments
There are many Golden Visa programs worldwide that allow individuals to qualify with a pension—sometimes as low as $1,000 USD per month. Yet, on the other hand, a man in his 30s earning $3,000 per month in dividends doesn’t qualify for a golden visa or even residency. What’s the logic behind this? Why prioritize retirees over younger individuals who not only contribute to the economy through more consumption but also have decades of productive working years ahead?
Kopman@reddit
Because they contribute to the economy but don't take a job up.
el_chacho_coudet@reddit
It is logic, but why they don’t accept remote workers / freelancers who run their own business neither !
bigboat24@reddit
You can just make yourself an employee of your own company…..
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
And this is actually a better plan because as an employee, you can get social benefits, depending on the country which you wouldn’t do as a freelancer
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
A lot of European countries take freelances. You just have to get a different visa for that.
Attention_WhoreH3@reddit
Several do. In the EU, Portugal is a good example. I think Estonia too. Southeast Asia is where I would go
Priority_Bright@reddit
Who doesn't accept freelancers but welcomes retirees?
Kopman@reddit
Some countries do. Others require investment for residency programs like the Golden Visa scenarios or USA's EB5 program. But they typically want you to create jobs for others, not just yourself.
Anonymous30005000@reddit
You can get residency in Paraguay pretty cheap and it allows you to work and only pay taxes on money you earn from Paraguayan employers; they don’t tax foreign-earned income. So it’s an example of a country that welcomes young and old immigrants.
thegerams@reddit
Because they are important and very loyal voters
HVP2019@reddit
In some countries there is high unemployment. So locals get upset with adding even more workers. Immigration policies reflect opinions of local voters.
8Lynch47@reddit
Sounds like the US.
HVP2019@reddit
US unemployment is reasonably OK compared to other world’s countries.
Kbesol@reddit
Give it a little time. Mass layoff in the federal sector, and it will be a domino effect.
mvw3@reddit
So you believe the government should be a jobs program?
thinkmoreharder@reddit
Covid unemployment was 15 million. The entire government, including all military, only has 4 million employees. So it will be more like 800K layoffs. It still matters, but the economic impact of the layoffs will be much much smaller than the CVD “stimulus” was.
HVP2019@reddit
Yes,
but this conversation isn’t about US specifically
but about various countries around the world and as someone who isn’t focused on US specifically I always assume that infinite amounts of factors have always been influencing various things ( unemployment included) in all 190 countries worldwide.
Changes ( for better or worse) are not uniquely American thing.
Brynns1mom@reddit
It was the lowest unemployment under biden. Under Trump there will be a ton of unemployed workers with his nonsensical firings!
ndtconsult@reddit
How do younger people consume more than retired people?
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
On entertainment, dining out, fashion, technology and travel, all the stuff you need for babies and kids, etc. I'm very surprised by your question.
FrauAmarylis@reddit
OP, we retired people gave all day errry day to be spending money!
While you’re at work, not spending money.
ndtconsult@reddit
Retired people spend money on all the things listed except babies. They can generally afford to spend more. I’m surprised you don’t understand this.
proof_required@reddit
Retired people are using same local public resources which they don't pay taxes to maintain from roads, train lines to public hospital. Government usually need tax paying people. Retirees are usually taxed at their origin country.
ndtconsult@reddit
Nope. Wrong again. Most countries tax you if you spend more than half a year in the country. This includes retirees. Retirees also pay the same sales, property, and VAT taxes as younger people. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.
Outrageous_Duty_8738@reddit
People who receive a government pension is guaranteed monthly income. Retired people will not be working so not a threat from taking jobs from local people.
Boring-Abroad-2067@reddit
If anything a retiree created jobs through spending
Beneficial-Sound-199@reddit
Retirement $$$$ spending and they don’t take jobs
Catcher_Thelonious@reddit
Generally, retirees are tame. They don't want to work. They don't make a nuisance of themselves. They don't get in trouble with the law.
ahuxley1again@reddit
Hey, let’s not be hating on the old people now. We worked our asses off all of our lives and paid our taxes , didn’t complain, give us a break lol
ChaffFromWheat@reddit
Jeeze. Give the elderly a break. People who make $1000 a month aren't going to hurt you!
proof_required@reddit
I doubt the 1K earner go to places where they will be considered poor. Generally retirees move to areas where they can enjoy the cost arbitrage, not to places where they would be considered poor.
ChaffFromWheat@reddit
Are you judging them?
proof_required@reddit
No I'm just arguing the fact that those retiring arent slumming it. They aren't some "poor thing".
ChaffFromWheat@reddit
Worse, do you see them as transactional? That the only right people have to visas is if they can make profit for the host country? What arrogance. And fuck your downvote.
alanm73@reddit
Can you give examples? As far as I know Spain doesn’t care if it’s a pension or dividends. The only reason I can think of that a country might do that is certainty. If you have a pension, especially a government pension, they figure it’s a lot more stable than the whims of the market. But, for instance, in Spain IRA/401k withdrawals are treated like a pension.
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
Panama Retirement visa:
Demonstrate a lifetime income or pension of at least USD $1,000 per month from a government program, international organization, or private company. Accepted income includes Social Security or other government retirement funds (e.g., military, state, or police pensions), as well as retirement benefits from a private corporation
Dividends would not qualify if I read this correctly.
fjortisar@reddit
Dividends aren't guaranteed. For Panamá though you don't need that if you have enough money to live off of dividends. You can get the permiso de países amigos (friendly nations visa) with 200k investment. https://www.migracion.gob.pa/wp-content/uploads/02-PAISES-ESPECIFICOS.pdf
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
True but the requirement to qualify is much higher IMO, you don't have to purchase a house to get the pensionado visa.
polyetc@reddit
If you qualify for the Friendly Nations Visa for Panama, you can create a company and then hire yourself. Then do freelancing or whatever business. Your income requirement is also $1k/month under that
https://panamarelocationtours.com/affordable-friendly-nation-visa-option
It does cost more to get a lawyer to set this up since you are starting a company, but the income requirement is not different
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
Are you sure that's still true after the 2023 changes?
polyetc@reddit
The lady who runs that website does weekly livestreams and still refers to that as a valid immigration path. She is very open to questions, if you email her or go on a stream, you can verify
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
Thanks, much appreciated!
PRforThey@reddit
If you plan to live off of dividends and want the visa, then you could just buy an annuity instead. An annuity would qualify as a pension.
Fickle-Friendship998@reddit
It’s foreign currency flowing into the country at little expense, since they are only visitors and can be shipped back should they become a burden
90sefdhd@reddit
I imagine because they must prove they are self-sufficient and will therefore be net “spenders” with regard to the economy. Not sure about the thinking regarding health benefits though
Hifi-Cat@reddit
And can be taxed.
Outrageous_Duty_8738@reddit
Older people settling in any country will have to have private health insurance or pay into the local system. Unless they are European citizens retiring to enough European country
williamgman@reddit
Most visa programs I've looked into require one to purchase a private plan. Though some also allow you to use the public system AFTER gaining permanent residency. The upside is that for American expats... Private healthcare abroad is about the same as your Part B and a supplemental plan in the US.
LaLizarde@reddit
Depends. Sounds like it’s high in Japan, unfortunately.
williamgman@reddit
I was referring to prices for those of us looking at retirement. Japan is not a place I'd consider for long term stay for cost reasons. Beautiful... But expensive compared to other places.
LaLizarde@reddit
Tokyo appears to be cheaper than Austin TX which is where I am except for maybe rent. But I read private health insurance is about $8k a year which isn’t much better than the US healthcare marketplace.
nurseynurseygander@reddit
Because most countries that do this are emerging countries that absolutely do not want foreigners coming in and taking local jobs, distorting the local job market, marrying in on a large scale and changing the cultural mix, etc. They want people to come in with their own money from another country and inject it into their economy, they want them to live quietly and have not too much impact on the status quo other than adding external money. (Yes, I know foreign older men do seek out local wives on occasion, but that is considered tolerable because she will usually outlive him and go on to raise their children with the local culture still as the dominant influence).
Trengingigan@reddit
Because retirees get money from their own country and spend it in their residence country. They are like permanent tourists.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
Reliable, reoccurring, stable income, usually can pay for their own health insurance with minimal impact to the existing system, disposable income that creates drag for new services and business.
kondorb@reddit
In that sense it’s pretty simple - a pensioner has a guaranteed income, will bring it into your country and guaranteed to never compete with local workers.
peterinjapan@reddit
Yes, they usually make you pay for healthcare, which is fine. It’s not like Rich elderly people go around robbing banks or committing other crimes.
Final_Mail_7366@reddit
what countries? I read Panama below but what other countries?
peterinjapan@reddit
Malaysia has a pretty sweet system. You have to have a certain amount of net worth, but it’s not bad at all.
Mezcal_enema@reddit
Getting residency in Panama is super easy. Their income requirement u think is 1100 usd.
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
Did you meet people that were younger and managed to get it? I already meet the monthly income requirement.
Mezcal_enema@reddit
Yes. People in their 40s and 50s. But I didn't ask them in detail what the status of their residency was, like their income. But I do know they picked Panama because it had one of the easiest residency requirements. When you get it there you get retiree status so lots of discounts and perks within the country and with Copa airlines
NonSumQualisEram-@reddit
For the reasons stated, plus, that money is absolutely guaranteed and coming from outside the country. A person entering a country to work is (by one argument) taking a job from a native and only claiming money that's already in the country.
lmneozoo@reddit
Just open a shell company and hire yourself...there are a lot of countries where you don't even have to attempt to build a successful business
soggy_bellows@reddit
You forgot America.
yaksnowball@reddit
They have their own income and spend their money in the local economy.
RexManning1@reddit
Most countries don’t have retirement visas.
wbd82@reddit
there is no age requirement for most golden visa programs in Europe (except being over 18)
notthegoatseguy@reddit
Retiree visas often don't qualify for permanent residency/citizenship.
They likely have family elsewhere in the world so they may not even be fulltime residents.
They often have to purchase their own health insurance or pay into the public one, which prevents them from being a burden to the system.
They aren't taking jobs because they are retired, but still are spending money and supporting the local economy.
Realistically, a typical retiree only has so many years before healthcare challenges start to mount up and at that point they'll likely want to return home anyway.
zinnie_@reddit
A lot of countries see young immigrants as competition for a limited job pool. Because of this, many places have rules about hiring locally before considering immigrants. Retirees on the other hand don't compete for work, and spend money earned elsewhere.
Crafty_Accident_9534@reddit
You sound like a person who doesn’t need a specific address. Just visit these places instead of living there
LeopoldPaulister@reddit (OP)
I used to be like that but these days I'd like to establish roots somewhere.