Air Force or Navy? | TheaterFire

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TheGremlin8724@reddit

Well....do you want to sleep in a nice hotel or do you want to sleep in a bunk with 25 other guys?

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Zero. I joined the air force and that's what a recruiter told me lol. Would you rather sleep in a tent, a bunk with 25 other shipmates or a nice hotel. I chose the hotel lol. I have been on museum ships though and aside the fact that it's like a metal maze from hell and a bit cramped it did look like it would be fun.

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kmac6821@reddit

He talked about joining to be a pilot.

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mrinformal@reddit

Where do you think the Navy puts a lot of its fighters? That's right, on a big ass floating airport. They spend months at sea on the carriers.

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kmac6821@reddit

And officers aren’t in 25-man staterooms. Tell me you weren’t Navy without telling me…

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mrinformal@reddit

I'm aware they don't, but the head ducking passageways and tight corridors still exist.

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TheGremlin8724@reddit

Ah my mistake. Don't junior enlisted still have to bunk in groups on ships though?

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ASD_user1@reddit

Pilots are usually in a 4-man stateroom as junior officers. Junior enlisted berthing is still very crowded.

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freedomflyer12@reddit

Pilots are Os and O staterooms are not 25 person. 6-4 as a JO

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TheGremlin8724@reddit

Thank you for the correction

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Sea_Procedure_6293@reddit

This is a loaded question!

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ZippyTheWonderPilot@reddit

Neither, go to college, get degree in something useful, get a pilot slot with ANG/AFR with a unit that flies what you want. If you do ROTC and get sent to go manage parts inventory, you might be a bit underwhelmed.

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TurnandBurn_172@reddit

You should go AF because you have a low chance of getting screwed in helicopters and way better quality of life.

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solylunaverde@reddit

How common is it for those to get assigned helicopters that didn’t want to be rotor? Can you choose rotor if you want it?

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TurnandBurn_172@reddit

In the AF? Not common. In the navy/marines, pretty often. You can definitely select rotor if that’s what you want…there’s usually not enough volunteers in the navy/marines. Marine aviation is woefully underfunded and struggle to get flight training in general, so I’d steer clear of them just based on that.

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Lazy_Tac@reddit

We only had one rotor wing slot in my upt class and guys were fighting for it. Might have changed since then

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Amerikaner__@reddit

your chances of becoming a fighter pilot are slim in either.

i’m a non engineering major and start advanced for fighters for the navy in a couple weeks. its like 80% luck and 20% actual skill to pick up strike. idk about air force but i think has better chances if you have zero flight time. but there’s other pathways to fly fighters even you dont get it what you want in your first try: air national guard, lat transfer after your sea tour etc.

DM if you want some more info. i took both the AFOQT and ASTB.

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livebeta@reddit

its like 80% luck and 20% actual skill

Thought it was

Ten percent luck,

twenty percent skill

Fifteen percent concentrated power of will

Five percent pleasure,

fifty percent pain

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Lazy_Tac@reddit

100% reason to remember the name

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ASD_user1@reddit

Timing is definitely more important than skill. For AF the ENJJPT pipeline normally is a straight to fighter feeder pipeline, but they’re pushing grads to heavies because the fighter pipelines are so backlogged. Navy will be based on timing and a bit of it will be your NSS when you finish primary.

There are also cultural differences not strictly associated with quality of life (AF wins this), because the Navy expects a lot more self-motivation from people who will be flying in the harsher maritime environment (i.e., you’ll be a more capable officer, lead a lot more troops, and do thing like maintenance or administrative leadership jobs that the AF gives to entire other units). It boils down to the desire to fly vs the desire to lead and to fly.

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Lazy_Tac@reddit

Most fighter pilots I know don’t have engineering degrees. Heck most pilots don’t have engineering degrees

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ltcterry@reddit

Apply to both. Go with the one that offers a scholarship. If you get both then pick the one that’s at the best school you can get into.

But whatever you do, don’t put on a uniform for flight school; do it because you want to serve.

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Comfortable-Dot-4924@reddit (OP)

This is the best advice yet, I know a guy who joined solely to be a pilot and ended up not getting a slot, but was committed to serve four years. This country has given a lot to my family and I’m more than happy to serve it in either way.

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UncleSugarShitposter@reddit

I am a current AF pilot. This is my advice.

I originally joined NROTC, but they were not giving anyone scholarships. Air Force and Army were making it rain.

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solylunaverde@reddit

Did you consider CG at all?

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UncleSugarShitposter@reddit

No. They’re academy only to commission and fly, and I didn’t want to go to a service academy.

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othromas@reddit

Good answer.

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Replubic@reddit

Air Force has more options. As long as your ok flying a c-17 do big blue.

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BUZZTOMPBBC@reddit

OK, a great question. There are huge cultural differences between the 3 services. For brevity (and levity) let me briefly summarize;

AIR FORCE: GOOD: The Tiffany service. Lots of funding, clean and well-maintained equipment. Good to its people. You land on a non-moving runway and sleep in a comfortable place. BAD: Daughter of the Army...they tend to be very hierarchical in their thinking. Drones are a distinct possibility as an assignment. USAF has a manual that is 4 inches thick telling you what you are permitted to do; all else is prohibited.

NAVY: GOOD: Naval Aviation demands the greatest skill and precision of any military aviation. Training is outstanding and pilot-centric. The mission comes first, always. VERY few drones, and they are pretty much test-vehicles. The Navy gives you a manual that is about 3/4" thick telling you what is prohibited - all the rest is left to your judgment, training, and discretion. The culture is fanatical about teaching pilots/officers how to THINK and MAKE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS. More authority in small units rather than huge commands. BAD: Equipment can often be a bit tired, although well-maintained. More concerned with mission than appearance, so Naval aircraft aren't the....cleanest. Instead of deploying to the desert, you deploy to a big steel place that moves across the water. When afloat, very little personal space. Shore facilities are usually a bit dated as well, but hey, at least you aren't on a SHIP!

COAST GUARD: GOOD: A very family-centric service. Often you will encounter 3rd or even 4th-generation "Coasties." They are all Naval Aviators, and USCG Naval Aviators are integral to the training command as well. Mixture of rotary-wing and fixed-wing, not sure about current status of "dual-qualified" aviators, but their reputation is that they are highly respected in both areas. Some very nice duty stations. Most Coasties make a career of it as well. BAD: Not bad, but highly selective. A relative who served in the USCG will help. They are very protective of each other and want to be sure anyone who joins the service understands and will embrace their very positive culture. Very little BAD to say, really.

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stevesmullet12@reddit

Bob Norris provides the only perspective necessary for this quandary

12 Feb 04 Young Man,

Congratulations on your selection to both the Naval and Air Force Academies. Your goal of becoming a fighter pilot is impressive and a fine way to serve your country. As you requested, I’d be happy to share some insight into which service would be the best choice. Each service has a distinctly different culture. You need to ask yourself “Which one am I more likely to thrive in?”

USAF Snapshot: The USAF is exceptionally well organized and well run. Their training programs are terrific. All pilots are groomed to meet high standards for knowledge and professionalism. Their aircraft are top-notch and extremely well maintained. Their facilities are excellent. Their enlisted personnel are the brightest and the best trained. The USAF is homogenous and macro. No matter where you go, you’ll know what to expect, what is expected of you, and you’ll be given the training & tools you need to meet those expectations. You will never be put in a situation over your head. Over a 20-year career, you will be home for most important family events. Your Mom would want you to be an Air Force pilot...so would your wife. Your Dad would want your sister to marry one.

Navy Snapshot: Aviators are part of the Navy, but so are Black shoes (surface warfare) and bubble heads (submariners). Furthermore, the Navy is split into two distinctly different Fleets (West and East Coast). The Navy is heterogeneous and micro. Your squadron is your home; it may be great, average, or awful. A squadron can go from one extreme to the other before you know it. You will spend months preparing for cruise and months on cruise. The quality of the aircraft varies directly with the availability of parts. Senior Navy enlisted are salt of the earth; you’ll be proud if you earn their respect. Junior enlisted vary from terrific to the troubled kid the judge made join the service. You will be given the opportunity to lead these people during your career; you will be humbled and get your hands dirty. The quality of your training will vary and sometimes you will be over your head. You will miss many important family events. There will be long stretches of tedious duty aboard ship. You will fly in very bad weather and/or at night and you will be scared many times. You will fly with legends in the Navy and they will kick your ass until you become a lethal force. And some days - when the scheduling Gods have smiled upon you - your jet will catapult into a glorious morning over a far-away sea and you will be drop-jawed that someone would pay you to do it. The hottest girl in the bar wants to meet the Naval Aviator. That bar is in Singapore.

Bottom line, son, if you gotta ask...pack warm & good luck in Colorado.

Banzai

PS Air Force pilots wear scarves and iron their flight suits

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sensor69@reddit

Lots and lots of fighter pilots in the air force do not have engineering degrees, and there are far more fighters pilot billets in the air force

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scudsboy36@reddit

Navy if you like doing awesome shit in the jet, USAF if you like quality of life

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Lutetium-177@reddit

I agree with what others have said; Apply to both Navy & Air Force. Someone mentioned the Air National Guard which is also something to look into. (Incidentally, two guys in my UPT class were Air Guard. One graduated, one didn’t. There were also two guys from the sandbox. They got special treatment and would be rolled back a class if they had problems.) Do it because you want to serve. You may end up flying a desk instead of a plane. It not only depends on your skills, but the needs of the service at that specific time.

At university, while in Army ROTC I recognized I wanted to fly fixed wing, specifically the A-10. (At that time, I was dating a girl whose dad was a Marine fighter pilot and CO at Cherry Point.)

Fixed wing/fast movers meant Navy/Marine or Air Force aviation. I seriously looked into Navy/Marine aviation. Realizing that someday I would want to have a family (and not want to be away for mouths at a time), I walked down the hall in the ROTC building and talked with the Air Force folks.

I was not majoring in engineering (graduated with a BS in Cartography) and took the AFOQT. I scored a 98% on the Nav, and 97% on pilot portions. They offered me a pilot slot or scholarship (at that time you couldn’t have both). I took the pilot slot and after graduating went to Undergraduate Pilot Training. The majority of my UPT class had graduated from that school for wayward boys. Several of their dads were Generals. Upon graduation, only a couple guys in my class got fighters. Since I went thru, it has changed to two tracks (fast movers and heavies). What hasn’t changed is pilot training is like drinking from a fire-hose. Right now, what you can do to prepare is fly as much as you can. (You didn’t mention if you are getting flight training while still in high school.) Get stick time in a Cessna 150 (something cheap) for familiarity with flying/pattern work/radio calls etc. That will help you when (and if) you get accepted. All the branches of aviation are good.

As an aside, I still spent two years on a Navy base, rubbing shoulders with Marine Aviators and enjoyed my time with all the services.

If you really want to do this, stay focused. Don’t be stupid. Don’t get a DUI or use drugs.

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SomnoDev@reddit

If you absolutely don’t want to fly anything but fighter jets, then you should be looking into the air national guard. Only way you can guarantee your airframe. Otherwise you could do really well, get a pilot slot in the Air Force, graduate UPT, and they still have not a single fighter jet available for the entire graduating class. Then you’re flying whatever they want you to fly for 10 years

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Redfish680@reddit

This. Worked at ANGRC for 5 years and traveled to most of the installations. General consensus was if you want to fly fighters, ignore the USAF bottleneck and go ANG. They fly a shit ton of AF missions. Best kept secret.

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SomnoDev@reddit

Barely a secret now haha, but yeah. It’s super competitive, not because of qualifications but because getting picked up is a lot like rushing a fraternity. I’m fortunate enough to have some personal guard contacts, but if you’re young like OP, enlisting in the air national guard to interface with pilots and pay for your degree and PPL (you need both) is your best bet to getting an interview and eventually flying the airframe you want.

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Redfish680@reddit

And you don’t have to call the Wing Commander “Sir”; usually Bob is good enough! Lol

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Comfortable-Dot-4924@reddit (OP)

I see, what would be my path from here on out to join?

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kmac6821@reddit

If you want to land on aircraft carriers, then there’s only one option.

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Comfortable-Dot-4924@reddit (OP)

That would surely be a dream come true, but from what I’m hearing on this thread, AF seems like the better option. I’ll have to do a lot more research though

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kmac6821@reddit

Guys in the USAF are telling you that the USAF is the better option. I wasn’t a fighter pilot, but as a naval aviator I much preferred the culture of the Navy. The USAF doesn’t allow a lot of decision making at lower levels. I saw this firsthand on numerous occasions. For one example, I had to get approval from the first O-6 in the USAF chain of command for a decision I would have been authorized to make as a Navy O-3. I have several other examples, but I’ll save them for another time. It’s the policies and subsequent culture that is different. Choose one that fits your personality and desires.

The people can be great either way.

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flyin_hog@reddit

I’m an Air Force dude and this is very true. The autonomy the Navy allows is nice. The flying culture is very different. We have a couple of Navy dudes in my squadron and, as similar as it would seem, the priorities, planning, and execution are very different.

I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer to go Navy versus Air Force. For quality of life, the Navy dudes in my squadron have said the Air Force offers much higher quality of life but that is anecdotal evidence from 3 guys. They all seemed to enjoy their time in the Navy but the stage of life they are in now dictates what they are looking for in terms of QoL. I bet being a young single Lt in the Navy is an absolute blast.

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kmac6821@reddit

You summed it up well. When I was a LTJG on my first cruise, a Marine Major explained to me “when I was young, being a fighter pilot was cool. Now I just don’t care any more.” He was envious of the QoL of other communities at that later stage of his career.

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flyin_hog@reddit

I’m still a fighter guy and the requirements get old after a while. The people who say “you only get to fly a few times per week” have no idea it is because of the time requirement for each sortie. I’m certainly envious, some months, that the heavy guys only have to fly once per month. We have so many currencies to maintain, it gets old after a while.

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Redfish680@reddit

Which one is called “Chair Force” again…?

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UncleSugarShitposter@reddit

Hi! Current AF pilot here.

I am biased and I recommend the Air Force.

Right now you don’t give a shit about quality of life or time away from home, but someday you will. QOL and time at home are significantly better in the Air Force.

Truthfully, your chances on becoming a fighter pilot in either branch are about the same. IF you get selected to be a pilot, you will compete with your bros and broettes for the coveted fighter slot. There’s usually 1-2 per class. The average pilot training class will have about 20 people in it, about half of which want that fighter.

The Air Force will send the rest to be FAIPS or to a heavy aircraft, which are cool in their own way and will usually lead to very successful airline careers.

The Navy sends some to their fixed wing assets like P8s, but the majority of a class will go to helicopters.

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BookieWookie69@reddit

Air national guard

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s2soviet@reddit

Hey, I’m in a similar boat currently in AFROTC. I don’t think it matters too much because at the end of the day, you will have to be among the best of your class to get into fighters, whether that’s your AFROTC/NROTC, or UPT class. It’s more a matter of preference, I’d personally love to land on boats, but I got a scholarship for the college that only has AFROTC, but being honest if there’s a JHMCS on my head and an afterburner I don’t really care.

Remember that Fighter Pilot is an attitude. If you develop that attitude, I’m sure the fighters will find their way to you!

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DaiTaHomer@reddit

You likely have a low chance of reaching your goal either way. That said, a non-flying hitch in Air Force is far more tolerable.

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LOVE2CREAMJUGGS@reddit

Too much BS in the military. I personally don’t recommend it. I separated after one contract. My entire “career” was maybe 25% the job I enlisted for and the rest was dog and pony shows and other peoples work. I was Air Force. Now I’m out and going to school while working. I make more working in a lumber mill. Most AF fighter pilots only fly a few hours a week unless they are IP’s.

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ThisIsMyHandleNow@reddit

The navy lifestyle is not for everybody. Sea duty sucks. I was Navy for 10 years, non-flyer, and the facilities at every Air Force Base blew the Navy facilities out of the water. Apply for both but understand your QOL in the navy will not be anywhere near what it would be in the AF.

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JustAnotherDude1990@reddit

Air Force if you want to be treated more like a person with respect.

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ElderberryCareful479@reddit

I hate to say this is true, but I’m an Air Force Reserve O in a joint unit and man.. the difference in the cultures and how people are treated is noticeable. Dead on.

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JustAnotherDude1990@reddit

I generally advocate for most people to actively avoid the military due to their treatment of service members. And if they just won’t listen, Air Force or coast guard.

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WingedWildcat@reddit

Fighter selection is going to be primarily luck based either way and not going to be significantly higher in either branch. Therefore my recommendation would be decide based on QoL outside of the cockpit and non fighter options. There are a million threads comparing those things so I would just decide what is most important to you because fighter availability is probably the one thing where they are pretty similar.

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cjonesaf@reddit

It depends a little. Unless you go national guard or reserve, there are no guarantees of a fighter either way, so I’d focus (if I were you) on the which service is more compelling to you in terms of mission set, lifestyle and so on.

I don’t think your odds of a fighter are necessarily any better in the Navy than the USAF, it’s very competitive either way. So I’d pick the branch of service that’s more appealing to you, in case you end up flying something other than a fighter. When I did it, I chose USAF for the reasons I mentioned, as well as seeing that the USAF had more interesting non-fighter options if I hadn’t gotten a fighter out of training. I never regretted my choice, FWIW. But I think the Navy would be cool too, especially if you are single.

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Longjumping_Proof_97@reddit

Air Force.

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rFlyingTower@reddit

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

Im currently 17 and graduating high school in May. I’ll also be going to college in the fall. It’s been a lifelong dream to become a fighter pilot, so I’ve been planning on joining AFROTC in college. After a lot of research, however I’m starting to realize that my chances of becoming a fighter pilot are better if I were to join the Navy instead. This is mainly because I’m not planning on majoring in engineering, which I hear is very common amongst USAF fighter pilots. However, there are a few drawbacks if I were to go through the Navy, mainly the fact that I’d be away from home a lot more (which I don’t mind unless I have a family, which I hope also happens). Regardless of which path I take I’m more than determined to make this happen. Anyone have any additional info that could help me decide?

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