Why they didn't use XT120 connectors instead?
Posted by chx_@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 89 comments
If they dropped balancing and just want to run a single wire then why not run a single 12AWG wire -- I think that'd be enough for 60A -- and XT120 connectors...?
Affectionate-Mango19@reddit
I don't need a new GPU right now, but if this crappy ass standard persists in 5yrs I'll just desolder all connectors on both the BRAND NEW PSU and GPU and put 1 or even two XT120 connectors in parallel.
Idgaf, I can do a beautiful, solid and SAFE solder job on myself. Beats a burned down house every day. But if there is a competitor with better connectors I won't even look at NVIDIA no matter the performance difference.
OkCartoonist8094@reddit
just use some crappy molex at 96v, problem solved
leops1984@reddit
A serious answer is that it would break compatibility with the existing ATX PSU standard. That spec does not contemplate a large gauge connector, so Nvidia requiring one would mean all new PSUs for anyone buying and getting the PSU makers to buy in.
No-Medicine-7404@reddit
You mean the same way people had to deal with adapters when 12V HP connector was introduced
leops1984@reddit
Worse. The 12VHPWR didn't make that many new demands on the PSU side of things, really. It's why Corsair, Seasonic, and I presume other suppliers could make cables that were the older generation power connectors on one end, and 12VHPWR on the other end.
You can't easily make an adapter for this kind of larger gauge connector with an existing PSU.
Foris4@reddit
Nearly all PSU are single rail, so switching to XT90/120 will only be a need for a new cable.
LeftysRule22@reddit
Even XT60 would be plenty. In the drone community we push 80A or more through those regularly. Downsides are the quality of the connectors is highly variable, and they do get weaker with more insertions. But those also apply to the current solutions. Maybe the lack of a locking tab is problematic for UL or something.
logosuwu@reddit
12VHPWR is only rated for 60 insertions anyway LMAO
gold_rush_doom@reddit
Why LMAO? How many times does a normal person unplug their graphics card on the same PSU?
Melbuf@reddit
this is a legit question, i think in the life of my current card (launch 3080) ive plugged + unplugged it a total of 3 times
Liason774@reddit
I've had my power supply since 2018 at least, it's gone through 10 series 20 series and 30 series cards I've plugged and unplugged at least 30 times for hardware changes and cleaning. The card might not see 60 insertions but the cables might. In any case such a small number doesn't suggest the plug is very robust.
Strazdas1@reddit
why would you unplug it for cleaning?
Liason774@reddit
To remove the gpu. I have a custom loop, I clean the water block.
Strazdas1@reddit
Sounds like a rare and self-inflicted issue.
PCGamingEnthusiast@reddit
With current motherboards you need to remove the GPU to access your storage. I've probably been through 15-20 cycles with my 4090 at this point. It's also necessary to unplug the card to remove it for maintenance, as well as for clearing dust out of the case. There's a fair amount of surface area on the motherboard that is covered by a modern GPU as well.
Strazdas1@reddit
What are you doing that you need to remove your storage 20 times in a few years?
No, it is not necessary to unplug the card for cleaning.
PCGamingEnthusiast@reddit
And I haven't removed my storage 20 times, but I have had 2 different boards and have upgraded my storage. I also like to make a copy of my boot drive, so when I do a fresh install of Windows I have to remove the drive and then put it back in.
PCGamingEnthusiast@reddit
If you just pretend that dust isn't there because you can't see it I suppose. But to clean the fin stack and/or apply new thermal paste you definitely have to remove the GPU.
Strazdas1@reddit
Thats 10 more than the 8Pin which was rated for 50 insertions.
logosuwu@reddit
It's actually 30, I misremembered. Not great.
Sadukar09@reddit
Half that.
30.
Every insert+removal = 1 cycle.
Nitrozzy7@reddit
Is that what she said?
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
that is a decently different use case though. a use case where we're trying to save a few grams to make the damn drone operate better if possible.
xt 60 has a sustained rating of "just" 30 amps sustained, or 420 watts at 12 volt.
it makes no sense to use xt60 on desktop computers. xt90 or xt120 is better.
xt120 rated at 60 amps sustained is 720 watts, which is good enough for any device to have in your computer i'd say.
the mentality of "it is good enough" is part of nvidia's insanity of pushing a 0 safety margin 12 pin fire hazard.
and i'd assume, that the xt120 connectors can take a lot more cycles than the smaller connectors also failures due to cycles may probably be vastly higher than any desktop card sees as drone users will change battery several times a day when flying drones possibly, however having tight specs for the pc version and possibly even increasing reliability further is always an option.
and an xt120 or xt60 failure like a desoldered connector or whatever else would be ONE WIRE, that if failed would stop power completely, unlike 12 pin fire hazard. so its failure mode is vastly safer as well, although again it shouldn't fail.
however a lot of this stuff is stuff, that should get tested in 2 years of heavily testing of the xt120 connector and maybe making actual improvements to the design if it makes sense for pc usage.
you know 2 years of running 100s of load testers and graphics cards with the connector to see if issues come up if used for graphics cards or even (we could) using them for cpu connectors instead of eps 8 pins.
not "hey we're nvidia, use this 0 safety margin fire hazard rightnow!"
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hey reddit can the comment maybe show up or not?
LeftysRule22@reddit
XT60 is 60A continuous. I’ve push 120A through an XT60 regularly on my 7” quad for 2 years, hundreds of flights, and never has a connector issue.
I don’t think XT60 in its current form is necessarily right for PCs but it does show that a similar solution for PCs is easily do-able and in many ways superior. The fact we’re still using molex pins for this kind of power is insane.
https://www.servocity.com/xt60-connector-pack-mh-fc-x-5-fh-mc-x-5/
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
that's the first time i am seeing 180amps quoted as peak and 60 amps continuous.
the xt60 listings i checked usually quote 30 amps sustained, just like xt120 lists 60 amps sustained, hm...
for a drone use case, it could get a bunch of airflow over it btw and we need to assume the worst possible usecase in pc of course in comparison.
however that is neat to hear, that you were able to push so much amps for i assume a decent amount of time through those connectors.
yeah i am by no means an expert, but at least looking at xt60, 90 and xt120 connectors we know, that they at least work :D and i bet we both take working over whatever glue nvidia is sniffing lol...
it is absurd with how little regard nvidia is trying to replace decades long safe standards... crazy.
and yeah would be great, that IF the industry wants a new connector standard, they all get together and actual experts try to figure out the best standard for a compute, which might be a heavily modified xt60, 90 or xt120 connector, or a ground up design, that is different, but also just 2 connections for power of course.
___
just a random thought, imagine of a company one day decides, that we gotta change all wall plugs with a vastly worse wallplug, that might set houses on fire.
and it just gets enforced and all new buildings and new devices have the new fire hazard wallplug.
and then after the first few fires start or almost start with lots of smoke.
they double down on it and everyone should just nod along as the company is risking people's lives.
yes that wouldn't be the case, unless a company is in pure control of a region at least to do this, but with how common desktop computers are these days it is kind of very similar to how insane that comparison is.
like frick nvidia's bs
shugthedug3@reddit
The PC Gucci community would complain endlessly about something like that.
The fish-tank 2020's PC aesthetic likes their wires thin and flexible, their cables combed and their connectors black.
Beatus_Vir@reddit
It's the Fonzerellification of PC aesthetics that's holding us back
shugthedug3@reddit
Not sure to be honest but the amount of anguish and discussion over fitting expensive components into a PC case - and making it look good - these days makes me think a big chonking 8AWG cable might not be enjoyed by some. It would be very hard to disguise, not very flexible and not really fitting with the overall aesthetic.
I'm from the ketchup and mustard horrible molex connectors era though.
shawnkfox@reddit
The real solution is something like the HPCE connector which removes the need for wires running to the GPU completely. Just adds an extra connector on the motherboard that the GPU plugs directly into.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/new-gpu-power-connector-eliminates-cables-delivers-more-than-600w
The issue is getting the motherboard and GPU manufactures to agree to a standard connector, but clearly it would be a far better solution than having to connect wires directly to the GPU.
Strazdas1@reddit
Now you have to buy a new motherboard for a new GPU.
MaverickBlue@reddit
Just once, like when they ditched ISA for PCI, or PCI for AGP, or AGP for PCIe. Then you're good for several generations, 5-10 years or so.
Beatus_Vir@reddit
so you can spot the 12VHPWR connectors arcing before you smell the smoke
MaverickBlue@reddit
In that case, why not ditch the cable entirely and start running bus bars down the back of the motherboard, and just have two pins on the card that slide into a receptacle just past the end of the primary x16 slot? Clean, cable free, two hidden chunks of copper to carry all the current you need. You'd still need a cable to go from the PSU to the board, but that's much easier to hide than say the half inch or more thick cable for the current 24-pin mobo power
gaqua@reddit
There’s no reason NVIDIA couldn’t solve the black connectors issue. And two 12 gauge wires are easier to comb and maintain a neat look than a dozen 16 gauge wires.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
you'd need 8 AWG to match six 16 AWG
Suspicious_Tax_6751@reddit
8 awg high flex wire made with fine strands and silicon insulation. 6 16awg wires are like 2/3 the cost of single 8 awg high flex cable. pcle wire cost is a tiny part of psu cost 3ft of more expensive cable would cost... 1usd more
DNosnibor@reddit
I don't think people want the wires in their PC to be over 100 degrees C
Cynical_Cyanide@reddit
That's the RATING, not the design target ffs. Is that why the comment is downvoted? People are as thick as to misinterpret a statement about the max temperature tolerance of a cable as its normal operating temperature? Jeez ...
DNosnibor@reddit
The issue is they are using the high temperature rating of the insulator to justify using a conductor with a smaller cross section. Thinner wire = more resistance = more heat for the same amount of current. So yes, they are advocating operating the cable at high temperatures. Otherwise the temperature rating would have been irrelevant.
Cynical_Cyanide@reddit
The idea is that the standard is so tremendously overkill wrt. current carrying capabilities, that IF - if - something were to go wrong, you're dramatically less likely to have thermal damage (melting, as in the real cases we're seeing) as with the current designs.
People don't notice their cables are hot. People notice their shit is smoking and/or doesn't work anymore.
DNosnibor@reddit
The combined cross sectional area of the six 12V wires in a 12VHPWR connector is 7.86 mm^2. Meanwhile the proposed single 10 AWG wire only has a cross sectional area of 5.26 mm^2. I think you're the one experiencing the Dunning-Kruger effect here if you don't realize that a singe wire can safely carry less current than 6 separate wires if that one wire isn't thicker than all the others combined.
And anyway, I wasn't even saying the proposed solution was worse than NVIDIA's current approach with the 12VHPWR connector. The current approach sucks. Rather, what I meant was that for a single wire delivering 600W at 12V, I would prefer to see something like 8 AWG rather than 10 AWG for more thermal headroom, because a 10 AWG cable is going to get very hot delivering a 50A continuously. I do actually think an XT90 connector with 10 AWG wire would be able to supply 50A without melting or burning or anything, but it would be hotter than is safe for human skin contact, which is problematic for test-bench builds and open side panels.
I don't know what your background is, which is why I have a basic explanation of why reducing the wire thickness would cause additional heating. It also makes the exchange easier to follow for other readers.
Cynical_Cyanide@reddit
Yes I understand of course that the combined total cross-sectional area of the cables is less... But you weren't talking about combined cross sectional area - You had the opportunity to do that, if that was your concern, but instead you merely mentioned temperature in relation to simple wire gauge alone. Further, that logic quickly breaks down when we look at the actual issue here - That oftentimes with this new connector, the currents are imbalanced, and so it's not just possible but eventually arguably even likely that at least one constituent cable of 12vpwr will be carrying current that is way over-spec for its gauge, and therefore get quite hot - as Der8auer illustrated.
Once we talk about aggregate wire thickness, then obviously the temperature of a cable is dependent not solely on the gauge of the wire, but the thermal conductance and overall diameter.
I understand that 10 AWG cables might get uncomfortably hot in low air-flow conditions, but it could be mitigated with intelligent material choice, high quality wire, and overall diameter - Or indeed, optional 8 AWG versions. Further, the likelihood of someone touching a wire that has been steady-state blasting 60A through it, for more than a brief moment, would seem somewhat unlikely especially if a 'caution - gets hot!' warning is provided. A potential brief moment of pain for a small minority seems like a cheap price to pay vs. a potentially greater proportion of people with damaged hardware, or indeed straight up fires.
Further again - Although I haven't tried it myself, all of the discussion in this thread from users of such cables haven't mentioned them being particularly hot, so a small bump in temperature further shouldn't cause severe issues. At the end of the day, people who are comfortable with handling an open-air machine with hot components should be able to handle a hot cable in addition to a hot GPU, CPU cooler, VRMs, etc. But hey - I'll agree that a 8 AWG cable is preferable to a 10 AWG one.
Suspicious_Tax_6751@reddit
i don't think it would be over 100°c normally it would be close and have proper safety margin and no physical damage would happen.
a good 12v 2x6 cable has 90°c wire temp rating but it will likely be like 60°c if it is current balanced
DNosnibor@reddit
The issue isn't its own ability to handle the temps. I don't think the wire would melt or anything. I just think the cable would get too hot to safely touch, which is problematic for people with test-bench builds and that sort of thing.
My saying it would be over 100C may have been a slight exaggeration, but it would be in the ballpark when pushing a continuous 50 amps. For cases in hot rooms or with poor ventilation, which are use-cases that need to be considered, it probably would get over 100C.
AntLive9218@reddit
Not sure if the pun was intended or it's only in my mind, but I found the idea of their "high end" GPUs turning any connector black funny.
haloimplant@reddit
Why should Nvidia care about complaints
The current one is unreliable and a potential safety hazard and folks line up to buy it
ebkbk@reddit
What if I told you the wires don’t have to go anywhere visible, like it could plug in next to the PCIE slot and we would never see it. Make them whatever shape is safest for high power consumption.
DNosnibor@reddit
Asus made something like that, didn't even use wires, just a gold finger connector into a slot next to the PCIe slot. https://www.custompc.com/asus-graphics-card-power-slot-does-away-with-pcie-power-cables
ebkbk@reddit
Yeah, so why doesn’t nvidia just do that?
DNosnibor@reddit
Well, Asus has the advantage of making both motherboards and graphics cards, so they can do something like this completely on their own. Realistically, for NVIDIA to do something similar for their FE cards, they would need to include both the new style connector and a regular 12VHPWR or PCIe 8-pin connectors so that people can still use it without upgrading their motherboard. Eventually if enough motherboard makers adopted the new connector, NVIDIA might be able to ditch power cables to the GPU completely and just have the finger connector, but that would take a long time. And in the meanwhile, there would be added cost and size to all their GPUs to support both power connector types.
quarter-lambda@reddit
Apple already did it with the Power mac G5
enron_stan@reddit
Okay then 2 xt120 with 12awg, 4 pins that can absolutely sustain 30 amps each even at 12v. People are dead set on one thing and only one thing. The connector is just shit and needs to be replaced.
WUT_productions@reddit
XT series connectors have to be soldered. Molex Mini and Micro fit can be crimped.
karlzhao314@reddit
Nvidia solders their squid adapter anyway.
The horror has a face - NVIDIA’s hot 12VHPWR adapter for the GeForce RTX 4090 with a built-in breaking point | igor´sLAB
dfv157@reddit
That extra $1 of effort in soldering the connector will surely bankrupt a scrappy startup like nvidia
saltyboi6704@reddit
Soldering connectors is expensive and needs to be done properly, otherwise you'll run into the same issue, and that's with expensive automatic crimping machines.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
you need to solder 12 pin connectors automated as well. the pin need to be soldered to the cable before insertion or however they are making those fire hazards.
automated soldering for 2 giant connections should be vastly easier and cheaper, than trying to reduce the fire hazard of 12 pin connectors in manufacturing at all.
think about that: xt120 is designed for hobbyists to solder them together well enough and be safe.
automated + automated visual inspection or see through (x-ray, etc.. whatever the frick) inspection of those solder joints should be on average vastly better.
also proper safety margins deal with any possible soldering issues, that could exist, especially in chinesium dumpster fire versions.
feel free to correct me here of course, but i really can't think of this to be an actual issue, especially compared to the 12 pin nightmare.
not to mention, that if they make the spec for pc, they could also change it to make it easier for automated soldering of connections and the like if they want.
saltyboi6704@reddit
ATX cables haven't been soldered in decades (or ever). The Mini-Fit and Micro-Fit terminations ATX and 12HPWR are based on respectively all use crimped terminations, which don't form as reliable joints at high currents but can be easily automated for cheap.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
thx for the correction on that!
i wonder what the cost difference would be to have automated xt120/90 soldering happening.
i can't imagine it being an issue right? i mean technically it can be double or triple the cost than 8 pins and still break even at very high end cards. i mean not that it matters, you can have humans even do it and it wouldn't matter price wise, when you are trying to sell 2000 us dollar cards :D
but we're being reasonable here and want automation of course.
i wonder if it is easier to screw up the solder connection than 8 pin pci-e/eps connectors if you cheap out to the max.
i'd assume we all want a connector, that won't ever be the weak point.
what i mean by that is that the half as heavy as they should be chinesium, fake wattage, missing safety standards, 20 gauge or aluminium wire!!! cables should at least not have the connectors burst into flames and fail and the 8 pin pci-e/eps connectors are so hard to screw up, that even for those fire hazards those don't end up being the weak point in the chain of doom so to speak, which is a good thing for the connector.
could we see a ton more failures in the solder connection with dumpster fire quality cables if soldered xt90/xt120 cables become the norm?
i mean i don't know.
but the terrifying thought is, that i just put more thought into power connections used by millions of people, than nvidia and pci-sig did in the last few years combined it seems...
saltyboi6704@reddit
Soldering connectors that size is difficult as there are no cheap ways to automate it. Iirc Prusa had some either 3rd party or knock-off XT60 connectors for their hotbeds catch fire a few years back as they were crimped instead of being soldered.
Joint consistency is relatively easy for those expensive automatic hand soldering machines, but might not be as consistent for a sweatshop.
By the time I upgrade to a card requiring 12VHPWR I'm probably going to solder copper busbars to the pins of the connector and run an XT60 pigtail to it.
I'm assuming nobody wants to move on to 20V being in PCs cause most VRM controllers should be rated for that since laptops use 20V, this should solve the overcurrent issue we're facing currently.
myst01@reddit
Pretty much every laptop that I have seen does not run on 20V internally, the voltage VBat tends to be similar to the battery output, e.g. 3-4x Li-Ion series, so sub 17V. Still there would be some other buck converter prior to cpu & gpu VRMs.
Other than that the quoted current ratings for all wires & connectors tends to be 30C and the wires have k=0.5 at 60C (half the current). 60C is likely a common case for the air in a case, esp with 500W+ heater inside.
RealThanny@reddit
A single 12 AWG wire cannot support 60A at safe operating temperatures where a person might touch the wire.
8 AWG minimum, or 6 AWG more properly, would be required to carry all the current on a single cable that can be safely touched while under load. Such cables are far too unwieldy to use inside a PC case, and that connector lacks a latching mechanism.
DesperateAdvantage76@reddit
Saying they're "far too unwieldly" is being dramatic, since it takes up the same space as the 12VHPWR cable and connector. Additionally, quick disconnect 12V high current capacity connectors are a very mature technology, so it would be wise to utilize that instead of this silly 16 cable solution.
Sleepyjo2@reddit
The unwieldy part probably wasn’t about how much space it takes up. 8/6 awg doesn’t tend to have all that impressive a bend radius considering the multiple 90 degree turns within a limited space such a wire needs to do.
opaali92@reddit
https://i.imgur.com/BnsKgtN.png
throwaway223344342@reddit
I'm confident i could run an aught gauge OFC welding wire in the case, no problem.
Sleepyjo2@reddit
That’s neat but a lot of people already struggle to run the 12v one without bending it into a radius smaller than an insulated 8awg run could do. Also more than likely entirely unusable in anything remotely adjacent to SFF.
Even if you did manage to squeeze it in there it’s going to put some high stress on something in the system, probably the PCIe slot, from the tension it’d be under. There is no strain relief inside a PC and that device side connector is certainly gonna want one.
Also I certainly hope you’re aware of this but the allowed bend radius of insulated cable has an increasing multiplier the larger the cable.
I’m not arguing the existing cable is good, I’m just saying this theoretical isn’t used for a reason. We’re dramatically more likely to just get rid of the cable entirely and use a socket like some pro/datacenter (and apple for a bit, when they still sold the Radeon pro cards) do.
signed7@reddit
What about something like two 12 gauge wires? Something in between the current 6x 16 gauge and one thick 8/6 gauge. Not an EE.
DesperateAdvantage76@reddit
You use stranded not solid core.
https://www.amazon.com/Taukealugs-Flexible-Inverter-Terminal-Connectors/dp/B0B9WT8521/
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
Just use the connector and multiple cables. If the cables are soldered to the connector, it doesn't really matter if you use 6x 16 AWG or 1x 8 AWG.
The connector itself is the issue/solution.
DNosnibor@reddit
A better solution would just be to use the well-tested 8-pin EPS12V connector which is rated for 300W and is currently used for CPU power. It's the same size as 8-pin PCIe connectors and already proven to work well in the context of PC power delivery. So you'd just need 2 connectors for a 5090, and 1 connector for 5080 and below. (Though 5080 OC cards would likely use 2 for more headroom).
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
i mean that was the plan, before nvidia went completely insane :D
there are lots of ways of NOT creating a fire hazard.
eps 8 pin at 235 watt rating.
eps 8 pin with tighter spec and rating increase to 280 or the likes.
just stay with pci-e 8 pin.
use xt120 connectors at 60 amps or 50 amp ratings and proper cable requirements for it.
so nvidia had ALL those options some with added benefits (8 pin eps is easily available and just means new psu cables and done pretty much), BUT instead they went for the
ONE AND ONLY fire hazard option :D
sell a 12 pin connector with tiny fragile contacts and set the safety margin to 0, because why not :D
crazy stuff.
but yeah 8 pin eps would have been the easy move and one of the 2 best moves, that are both safe.
saltyboi6704@reddit
Kind of, not really. Passing the 50A required for 12V results in a couple watts dissipation distributed along the whole cable, and you're not expected to touch it while energised anyways.
Doubling up will help with efficiency, and a connector with 4 of the 3.5mm brass jacks used in XT60 would be more than adequate for up to 1kw at 12V. The PCB can help dissipate heat generated at the connectors, but the problem is soldering the cables as automating that is expensive.
reddit_equals_censor@reddit
YES, xt120 connectors by all i learned seem great and seem like a well thought out connector.
2 cables and not 12 + 4 worthless sensepins, that is how you make connectors.
i don't know the thickness required for xt120 to carry 60 amps sustained.
xt120 connectors can take 8 gauge cables, so i'd guess 8 gauge is what we want to carry 60 amps sustained with proper safety margins, but someone please tell me exactly what the requirement would be.
but YES absolutely xt120 connectors with proper cables are a proper spec, that is safe and well tested by drone users, rc cars, etc....
that or sth like that is what a sane person would have looked to reimagine 12 volt power connections in pcs.
LESS connections with higher power, that are less fragile, vastly more reliable and won't fail or IF they fail in the rarest occasion would fail generally safely, because one cable failure breaks the connection already, unlike 12 pin fire hazard, that will happily push 50 amps over 1 single 16 gauge cable with 2 tiny tiny pins... until it melts/sets things on fire.
now what i wanna see is some people modding a 5090 card to solder an xt120 connector on it and actually make it look clean as well and name the video: "sane and safe 600 watts, fixing nvidia's fire hazard".
good title, good video, relatively easy for people with good soldering skills, as the reference 5090 already has a single connection per 12 volt and ground pins. so you just remove the 12 pin fire hazard and solder to those connections and be good (simplifying here, placement can be hard and shit of the xt120 there)
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if nvidia wants a single power connector for 600 watts, then it NEEDS to be a 2 power connectors (one 12v one ground) connector. xt120 is such an option. it is the best? idk. there could be sth better, there could be some changes, that make it better, but it CERTAINLY is a proper trusted connector.
if nvidia just slapped an xt120 connector on the cards and called it a day and threw the 12 pin fire hazard away, then i'd already be happy, BUT maybe we could do better.
but again YES give us an xt120 or xt120 style connector on graphics cards!
surf_greatriver_v4@reddit
the connector we were using was perfectly fine
DNosnibor@reddit
Well, to power a 600W GPU with that you'd need 4 separate connectors, which is a bit much.
They should have just switched to EPS12V instead of the new 12VHPWR connector. EPS12V is the 8-pin connector used for CPU power, which is rated for 300W and is the same size as the old PCIe power connectors which were only 150W rated. So they only would have needed 2 connectors for a 5090, and one connector for a 5080 and below. (5080 OC cards would probably use 2 connectors).
EPS12V is well tested and has proven to work well in a PC power context. There's no reason it wouldn't work well for GPU power.
Noobfire2@reddit
Especially since the EPS12V connector IS already used for high-power enterprise/datacenter PCIe cards anyways.
Rjman86@reddit
the PCIE 6+2 cable is awful, the cable is rated for half the power of EPS12v despite using the same number of the same gauge wires. Plus the 6+2 design is so fiddly even when compared to the 4+4 EPS cables (which seem to be getting less common). But it's still way better than 12VHPWR since it doesn't catch on fire.
AntLive9218@reddit
Really depends on the connector itself. 4+4 EPS was often worse due to the location of the female connector, but nowadays all good connectors have mechanisms to make a single 8-pin connector from them some way.
Quite niche, but one upside of the non-monolith 6+2 PCIe power connector is that the +2 part is ground, so it can be "ghetto hotplugged" without risking +12 V making contact first.
LickIt69696969696969@reddit
Why don't they invest R&D om photonic computing instead ?
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
Genuine question, do they really not? It feels like Nvidia would do something like that.
JaggedMetalOs@reddit
Nvidia don't even do their own silicon fab work so I'd imagine researching photonic computing manufacturing is well outside their wheelhouse.
Healthy_BrAd6254@reddit
Neither do all the photonics startups though
JaggedMetalOs@reddit
Yeah but those startups have risky VC funding to do speculative research that may amount to nothing, not established shareholders expecting more quarter on quarter profit wondering why millions in material science research that might take over a decade to come to fruition wasn't instead spent on selling more datacenter GPUs next month.
shugthedug3@reddit
Really the power demands of modern high end GPUs would be best catered to with 24V GPU power.
Of course would make PSUs more expensive etc and maybe cause confusion due to existing 12V components but given the fact a GPU can be 575W I think 12V has run out of steam and it's maybe time to extend ATX power standard to better accommodate modern demands.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
Nvidia knows better then us.
DesperateAdvantage76@reddit
That's assuming profit (even at the expense of safety and reliability) wasn't the primary motive for them.
slither378962@reddit
Yeah, someone at nvidia. Then the managers ignored them!
WuWaCamellya@reddit
As proven by the 4090 and 5090 situation.