What mistake ruined his career?
Posted by ExternalInternet20@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 43 comments
I am a high school student working toward my PPL. I graduate next year and I've been looking into flight schools. Recently, a friend of mine shared a story about one of her family members who attended a pretty highly regarded flight college in my area, and I can't stop thinking about it.
A quick disclaimer-I am very new to flying and my knowledge is limited at this point, but I really would like a seasoned pilot's opinion on this story. My lack of knowledge might also show in my writing, so sorry if I refer to things wrong. It's a sad story so I don't want to ask my CFI. Also, my friend is completely unfamiliar with aviation, and she was told this story through someone else, so the facts aren't completely straight from her end. No one in her family knows the full story, because after the incident, her family member went into a depressive episode and does not like to talk about it.
Here's what she told me:
My friend's cousin went to this particular flight school and reached the point of his final checkride before obtaining what I believe was supposed to be his commercial license (or at least the last license he needed before having the ability to pursue a career). During the checkride, he made some sort of mistake, and apparently he had been "taught wrong" by an instructor (I'm guessing a young CFI). The instructor was fired.
Here's the part I don't understand. My friend said that after the checkride, her cousin was no longer able to become a pilot (either he wasn't allowed to, or he gave up, its unclear). She strongly suggested that he was "banned" from becoming a pilot. Can this happen? Can you really make a mistake so bad during a checkride that you are banned for life from pursuing a career? If so, what mistake might it have been? I'd love some insight from someone more seasoned than myself.
Thank you for any responses or insight.
dyljcks@reddit
ATC gave him a number then took him out back and shot him
geared87@reddit
OP is a Bot!
ShaemusOdonnelly@reddit
I have heard of some schools that terminate your training contract if you fail checkrides. But that would only stop you from training at that school, not from becoming a pilot. Nevertheless, checkride failures will decrease your chances of getting a descent job.
F14Scott@reddit
I thought that, after the ascent job, the descent job was guaranteed.
SuperFaulty@reddit
Quite a descent reply :)
Academic_Passage8430@reddit
My money is on a failed test. Drug test, that is.
sunny5222@reddit
this is basically the clickbaity title of every pilot debrief vid.
acegard@reddit
Dang I like his content but I hate his titles lol
EHP42@reddit
And his intros lol. So much embellished language...
But yeah the content and analysis is generally good.
livebeta@reddit
We have to remember that this ~~pilot and casualties~~ YouTuber are real people and completely deserving of empathy
McDentedMyTruck@reddit
I had a classmate at a 141 college program who had an incident that fits the story you heard. Due to delays in flight training, he was taking his commercial singe engine land (ASEL) check ride two weeks before he was set to graduate. Normally, his degree would require he earned either his commercial multi engine or became a CFI in order to graduate. However, the program was so backlogged that the Director of the program and Registrar issued waivers that allowed a person to graduate without those ratings.
So, what that meant for this guy is that once he finishes the commercial check ride he will have to start paying back his loans in short order. With only a commercial ASEL, the job offers are sparse and to go any further in aviation he would need to throw down serious cash with a budget already taxed by loan repayments.
He looked at his future, saw the challenges, and caved in. He became very withdrawn and short tempered. On the check ride, with an FAA Inspector, he was disrespectful and half-assed most maneuvers. When the inspector told him the check ride was being paused and he wouldn’t pass, he started punching the dashboard. The inspector thought he was going to kill them both.
Afterwards, the FAA interviewed all CFI’s that taught the student and the one that signed off his commercial check ride was given a 709 ride (the FAA retested his abilities to teach and fly to validate whether he was fit to act as a CFI still. He passed)
My friend was diagnosed with depression and has never flown a plane since.
ExternalInternet20@reddit (OP)
The particular school my friend's cousin went to has had major issues with backlogging. This was three or four years ago after Covid. Would be crazy if it was the same guy
smooth_opr9r@reddit
My guess: He got a DUI. The rest is all a cover story
No-Program-5539@reddit
Yeah none of this really makes sense. Not surprising since it’s one side of the story being told by someone not in aviation.
Technically you can get banned from being a pilot if the FAA decides to deny your applications, but that’s more about criminal behavior. Specifically alcohol and drug related offenses. It’s not going to be because of a failed checkride.
As far as being taught wrong, it’s possible, but also a LOT of students try to claim that after a failure in an attempt to pass the blame. Take that with a grain of salt.
If he says he was banned, I’d say most likely would be that the school kicked him out after a pattern of poor performance. Either that or he just didn’t want to keep training and made up this story because he didnt want to tell his family he quit. But this is all speculation since we don’t know what actually happened.
Fun_Job_3633@reddit
Are you sure your friend's cousin wasn't simply dismissed from the school? Part 141 schools will absolutely kick students out for things like not progressing quickly enough, failed stage checks, and failed checkrides. If your friend's cousin failed a checkride - even if it wasn't necessarily his fault for being taught wrong - theres a chance they didn't want to keep teaching him. That's just my guess as to why he can't continue training.
No-Program-5539@reddit
Yeah this is more likely. Plus I really take it with grain of salt when someone says “I failed because my instructor taught me wrong”, not saying it never happens but students love to claim that when they mess up.
Fun_Job_3633@reddit
I know I'm assuming, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't want to be a pilot and is claiming he's "banned" as a way of telling his parents in a manner they'll actually accept. He failed, but he was taught wrong so it's not like he wasn't studying or learning quickly enough, and he's now banned from ever becoming a pilot so don't bother looking for another school or instructor.
OldResearcher6@reddit
Need to have a pretty heinous pattern of failure to be washed out. Not one failed checkride
Fun_Job_3633@reddit
True, but we also don't know his training history and are assuming he only failed the final stage check once.
Wooden-Term-5067@reddit
There’s no such thing as “highly regarded flight college”. Failing a checkride has happened to many pilots. I personally have failed two. Even some pilots have had accidents or incidents and they now fly for the airlines. The things that might get you “banned” is falsifying records or maybe a DUI.
NOOBSKINSPAMMER@reddit
Nothing on a singular checkride could ever “ban” you from becoming a pilot, short of a couple things: 1. Intentionally committing an act with intent to endanger lives or property 2. Admitting to a crime like forged papers, lying on your medical, etc. Your family friend seems to have failed and slipped into a depressed state or feeling of worthlessness, which can certainly be a career ending trait.
Londup@reddit
This happened to a close buddy of mine, just not enough right rudder.
IHGrewardsking@reddit
What
usmcmech@reddit
You're getting this story third hand by people who know nothing about this business. Don't take it too seriously.
Having said that, failing a check ride and going into a mental/emotional spiral is plausible way to ruin a career.
bwh520@reddit
The emotional spiral is the part that will ruin your career, not the failing a check ride part. Just to be clear.
Ludicrous_speed77@reddit
Is this even the US?
ExternalInternet20@reddit (OP)
Yes, midwestern United States
TalkAboutPopMayhem@reddit
I can think of two things that you can do on a checkride that can get you permanently banned for life from pursuing a career as a pilot:
Admit to lying on your medical about a disqualifying medical condition such as epilepsy. Or, maybe as simple as a bottle of Dilantin fell out of his bag.
Admit to committing a serious felony, such as identity fraud.
"Failing to meet a standard" is how you fail a checkride. That cannot get you a lifetime ban. Doesn't get you anything other than an opportunity to re-take the checkride. But other things can happen on a checkride that can be permanent.
serrated_edge321@reddit
What about something like violating airspace / NOTAMs?
Lpolyphemus@reddit
Happens all the time. Yes there are consequences but nothing career ending unless it is intentional and/or criminal.
scrollingtraveler@reddit
These are the stories of people from Embry Riddle, Kent State, North Dakota aviation school for people who got DUIs or drug/alcohol related arrests. They come home and tell everyone some bull crap story like this that they failed and aren’t allowed to continue. Most people don’t know what a check ride even is.
Study, don’t drink and drive, don’t do drugs especially weed even if it’s legal. Understand the flow of check rides. Especially what your responsibility is to display orally and while flying maneuver and approach wise. You will be fine. These places are challenging but puppy mills to the aviation industry.
Similar-Good261@reddit
Be there drunk or stoned would be such a thing. Attack your DPE with a knife, tell them you train for a terroristic attack… no flying error will get you banned except maybe an intentional attempt to hurt someone. As others have said: it‘s an incomplete hearsay story from people who admittingly do not know anything about the topic.
Vampsyo@reddit
A visit to the shrink will typically ground you for life. If you want to keep your wings, keep it to yourself.
davihar@reddit
Well I can think of a few things that can happen during a checkride that can terminate an aviation career. Look up the things that disqualify someone from obtaining a medical. An epileptic seizure would probably do it. There are also some terrorism stuff that disqualifies too. Looking at the examiner and saying you want to crash the plane into a building to protest what is going on in Gaza would probably get you a letter from the FAA asking you to return medical and licenses to them.
spacecadet2399@reddit
Yes, you can, but it would probably be a pretty important part of the story that wouldn't be left out or forgotten. Something like having an accident that was due to your friend's cousin's negligence. I have actually known pilots who have had their licenses suspended due to their actions that caused an accident; something like that happening on a commercial checkride would absolutely kill your chances of ever becoming an airline pilot. It's not technically a "ban" but it effectively would be; you just would never get a job.
Similarly, if this was an ATP checkride, just failing that is really hard to recover from. You don't even need to make a bad mistake like that. It's just going to be really hard to get an airline job afterwards and you may have to go build a lot of time somewhere else before trying again. So it could definitely cause someone to want to give up.
Any number of things might have happened, but I'm sure there are missing details and some things that are exaggerated or slightly incorrect here. My complete guess is that your friend's cousin just failed his ATP checkride and couldn't get a job afterwards, then gave up.
Red-Truck-Steam@reddit
This honestly sounds like a story you'd hear in elementary school. A pilot elementary school.
PilotBurner44@reddit
Sure it can happen technically, but it would be incredibly unlikely. If you were to attempt to purposely crash the airplane in a way that could be considered an act of terror is the only plausible scenario I can think of that would get you permanently disqualified aka "banned". Mentioning a disqualifying health issue possibly could, but I'm not sure if a DPE has that authority.
x4457@reddit
No.
Whoever told you that is full of incorrect information except
That will probably disqualify you medically and prevent you from becoming a pilot.
NotASwinger69@reddit
Her family member?
x4457@reddit
The person who failed the checkride went into the depressive episode.
Dependent-Prompt6491@reddit
I think everyone here is just as curious as you are. By the way, I wouldn't discount the possibility that the mistake may not actually have been disqualifying. If it's true that the person had a depressive episode perhaps he or she just got so beat up over whatever happened and couldn't bounce back. BUT that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't have given it a second try . . . perhaps at a different school. Anything is possible here. People feel defeated and give up all sorts of things such as a hobbies, careers, relationships, college etc etc that sometimes others don't.
wt1j@reddit
Sounds like a story someone told someone who told someone who told someone. Gossip that got mangled along the way. Ignore it or go to the source. No use speculating. It doesn’t match anything I’ve ever heard of.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
I am a high school student working toward my PPL. I graduate next year and I've been looking into flight schools. Recently, a friend of mine shared a story about one of her family members who attended a pretty highly regarded flight college in my area, and I can't stop thinking about it.
A quick disclaimer-I am very new to flying and my knowledge is limited at this point, but I really would like a seasoned pilot's opinion on this story. My lack of knowledge might also show in my writing, so sorry if I refer to things wrong. It's a sad story so I don't want to ask my CFI. Also, my friend is completely unfamiliar with aviation, and she was told this story through someone else, so the facts aren't completely straight from her end. No one in her family knows the full story, because after the incident, her family member went into a depressive episode and does not like to talk about it.
Here's what she told me:
My friend's cousin went to this particular flight school and reached the point of his final checkride before obtaining what I believe was supposed to be his commercial license (or at least the last license he needed before having the ability to pursue a career). During the checkride, he made some sort of mistake, and apparently he had been "taught wrong" by an instructor (I'm guessing a young CFI). The instructor was fired.
Here's the part I don't understand. My friend said that after the checkride, her cousin was no longer able to become a pilot (either he wasn't allowed to, or he gave up, its unclear). She strongly suggested that he was "banned" from becoming a pilot. Can this happen? Can you really make a mistake so bad during a checkride that you are banned for life from pursuing a career? If so, what mistake might it have been? I'd love some insight from someone more seasoned than myself.
Thank you for any responses or insight.
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