Is This The Most Effective Aircraft In The History of Modern Warfare?
Posted by ShutterHawk@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 492 comments

The F-16 Flying Falcon
TheSmashy@reddit
Define "modern" and "effective". The B-52 has put in some work. So has the MiG 21.
jtshinn@reddit
I think the ancient Egyptians used the b52.
koobian@reddit
It depends on what you mean by ancient Egyptians. If you mean Cleopatra Era Egyptian, then Yes. They had B-52s. If you mean the Egyptians who built the pyramids (Which is farther away in time from Cleopatra than she is from us) then also Yes.
TLDR the B-52 has been around for a long time.
Obligatory /s
Pinky_Boy@reddit
the year is 42000, the b-52 and m2 browning is still in active service, and there's no sign that it will be retired any time soon
W00DERS0N60@reddit
How do you go up from a ma deuce, tho?
jybe-ho2@reddit
why would we they are perfect
pope1701@reddit
With the new second hyperwarp drive upgrade incoming, they'll easily have another 20 years in them.
SpecialExpert8946@reddit
I believe the first blueprints for the b-52 was written in Sanskrit.
tothemoonandback01@reddit
This is in dispute. Archaeologists believe some cave paintings in Southern Africa depict the first B-52 plans.
tob007@reddit
I heard Neandertal was thought to have been the first to build b52s in S. Europe.
man_idontevenknow@reddit
This is all just speculation after the fact. The Pleistocene era was known to have a large, flying, reptilian dinosaur that was found, with 10 of its kind in a B-52 pattern all tied together. The only thing missing were the wing coverings and propulsion units. Historians guess 8 to 10, of something, were attached to it.
Worried_Bandicoot_63@reddit
The Younger Dryas impact hypothesis suggests that a comet or asteroid impact destroyed the original b52 plans around 12,900 years ago in ancient central America.
Key Evidence for the Hypothesis:
burnsniper@reddit
It’s actually described on the Rosetta Stone.
Punny_Farting_1877@reddit
Nanni was buying copper for the initial B-52 build. Ea-nāṣir sold him substandard copper. That was 1700 BCE. They are still in litigation in part because no lawyer can read cuneiform anymore.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complaint_tablet_to_Ea-nāṣir
koobian@reddit
Nanni v Ea-nāṣir drones on. This scarecrow of a suit has, in course of time, become so complicated that no man alive knows what it means. The parties to it understand it least, but it has been observed that no two Chancery lawyers can talk about it for five minutes without coming to a total disagreement as to all the premises. Innumerable children have been born into the cause; innumerable young people have married into it; innumerable old people have died out of it. Scores of persons have deliriously found themselves made parties in Nanni v Ea-nāṣir without knowing how or why; whole families have inherited legendary hatreds with the suit. The little plaintiff or defendant who was promised a new rocking-horse when Nanni v Ea-nāṣir should be settled has grown up, possessed himself of a real horse, and trotted away into the other world. Fair wards of court have faded into mothers and grandmothers; a long procession of Chancellors has come in and gone out; the legion of bills in the suit have been transformed into mere bills of mortality; there are not three Nanni left upon the earth perhaps since old Tom Nanni in despair blew his brains out at a coffee-house in Chancery Lane; but Nanni v Ea-nāṣir still drags its dreary length before the court, perennially hopeless
Punny_Farting_1877@reddit
Perhaps this case calls for a new approach. Perhaps the most senior personal injury lawyer in American jurisprudence should be given lead attorney status.
Keyrock, the unfrozen caveman lawyer, is confused and frightened by our modern ways but 49% contingency plus 6 figure retainer is 49% contingency plus 6 figure retainer.
_EnFlaMEd@reddit
Some of aviation fuel used by B-52s today was distilled from crude oil deposits formed by the decomposition of B-52s in the Mesozoic era.
ChillZedd@reddit
Hindu nationalists will try to tell you that the B-52 originated from the Indian subcontinent but it’s generally accepted by most historians that it developed on the steppes of Central Asia before spreading to India and Europe.
Easy_Money_@reddit
Thanks Gemini
W00DERS0N60@reddit
Best I can do is Latin.
TimeSpacePilot@reddit
Rumor has it Cleopatra slept with Napoleon to steal the early plans for the B-52
Starrion@reddit
A Ships of Starfleet shows a B52x with four warp nacelles in the late 23rd century.
Gruuler@reddit
Rushing the tech tree again are we, Egypt?
koobian@reddit
Had to. I made peace with Gandhi and now he wants to nuke me.
Chemist391@reddit
Standard Hammurabi game.
AccomplishedWeb9235@reddit
I thought the B52’s were made by Rock Lobster 🦞
MaksweIlL@reddit
There was a TIL on reddit where people pointed out that one great great ... great grandson of Cleopatra is now piloting the same B-52 she was.
Cerebral-Parsley@reddit
I forgot about the Cleopatra fact. Really mind blowing.
YYCDavid@reddit
And the B-52s walked like Egyptians… oh wait that’s Bananarama. Never mind
MusingFoolishly@reddit
!!!!!!!!!Reddit love I why is This
LostGoldMine08@reddit
No,they used C-130’s too..
notasthenameimplies@reddit
And, our successors will be using them for generations to come with the avionics and powerplant upgrades in progress.
TheKarenator@reddit
Tower of Babel wasn’t actually a tower (how could that get to heaven?), but instead was the first b52.
tobascodagama@reddit
And we'll still be using them in the Blood Space War.
Parking-Power-1311@reddit
God arrived here on a B-52.
ChinaCatProphet@reddit
That was the Spartans
Obie-Wun@reddit
This…is…THE BUFF!!!
keenly_disinterested@reddit
Not to mention the KC-135, without which none of the above-mentioned aircraft could do their missions.
man_idontevenknow@reddit
Ah, the gas station attendant gets triggered. No worries, mate. We always raise a pint to ya.
metroidpwner@reddit
I find this aspect of warfare very interesting. It’s easy to look at the fanciest weapons and platforms and say that they are the cornerstones of our defense, but there must be so many lynchpins in their support and deployment without which a military couldn’t do its job
keenly_disinterested@reddit
For a good read on the topic.
the8bit@reddit
It's always about logistics at the end of the day.
Thisbis too boring for most people to care, but one of the biggest indicators / reasons for Russia's decline is that they can't make spheres of metal spherical enough (ball bearings). I mean, they are fucked in many ways, but 100 t90s don't mean shit if your trains derail and you can't move them to the combat front.
CptSandbag73@reddit
NKAWTG!
nobodyisfreakinghome@reddit
A-10 is up there. As is the dragon lady (gotta have intel no?).
Orlando1701@reddit
B-52 has shot down MiG-21s.
matzan@reddit
What?
IcebergSlimFast@reddit
B-52 HAS SHOT DOWN MIG-21S
Bourbonaddicted@reddit
MIG-21 allegedly shot down an F-16.
Hence B-52 is the best.
Atonam-12@reddit
Allegedly? India Mig-21 did shoot down Pakistani F-16. Wreckage was found and documented by locals and then collected. However, the mig-21 also had to eject and abandon his plane.
TimeSpacePilot@reddit
It’s not the gun, it’s the cowboy.
Proxima_Centauri_69@reddit
It’s not the arrow, it’s the indian.
Atonam-12@reddit
Fair enough
robinfoood@reddit
What?
No-Star-3314@reddit
B-52 tail gun go Brrrrrrrrttt….and then was taken off the aircraft
godisamoog@reddit
MAWP!!!!
clove_cal@reddit
Mig-21 has shot down F-16
ExocetC3I@reddit
B-52s in Vietnam had tail gunners, tough by that time they may have been replaced by radar guided rear gun.
smithers3882@reddit
D model BUFFs had actual tail gunners with 4x .50BMG machine guns (and radar assistance). The only model currently serving- the H model - came with a M61 Vulcan 20mm cannon that was purely radar guided by a gunner in one of the aft-facing forward, upper deck seats. The guns and dedicated gunners were removed sometime after the first Gulf War, ending 40 years of having an enlisted crewmember on the B-52.
Ancient_Sea7256@reddit
Imagine a B-52 configured like an AC-130 gunship.
mmmhmmhim@reddit
dont they already throw out like fitty jdams at once or something
Ancient_Sea7256@reddit
JDAMs will kill the enemy AND Capt. Price.
ms67890@reddit
That seems like a downgrade compared to the 70,000 pounds of bombs it can carry normally
Several_Leader_7140@reddit
Literally the definition of
“You see that? I don’t want to anymore”
Wdwdash@reddit
Article about the last active duty tail gunner
abn1304@reddit
B-52s downed MiG-21s on two separate occasions during Operation Linebacker in 1972.
DrEarlGreyIII@reddit
fully sick
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
Like one confirmed. Others aren’t corroborated by actual VPAF losses.
Orlando1701@reddit
*two are confirmed
Either way the B-52 is the largest aircraft to ever score an air to air kill.
Aardvaarrk@reddit
Operation linebacker 2, two Mig-21 shot down by B-52 tail guns.
lordnacho666@reddit
It's very hard to say what effective means. You make a weapon in order to get your political aims completed, but that can happen without ever using the weapon, eg ICBMs.
ImYourHumbleNarrator@reddit
from drones to A10's. they all have their time and place to be most effective. whatever dropped the atomic bombs is probably the most statistically effective, per capita
Gymnaut@reddit
Warfare is not effective without logistics. Hercules Hercules!
Bluelegojet2018@reddit
Best Airframe of all time 👍
jybe-ho2@reddit
not the A-10 not after desert storm
FormulaKibbles@reddit
You forget the jet has been used for 30 years after that?
jybe-ho2@reddit
ya, because of lobbing from the towns that make parts for the jets
FormulaKibbles@reddit
The jet was incredibly effective in Afghanistan for 20 years. Anyone making the argument it isn't due to Desert Storm doesn't know much about it.
jybe-ho2@reddit
super effective at friendly fire maybe. name one thing the A-10 can do that the F-35 can't do better?
FormulaKibbles@reddit
Once again, talking about the actions of the A-10 in Desert Storm (where the friendly fire talking points come from) means nothing about how effective it was. Throwing out the friendly fire meme about the A-10 shows a lack of knowledge on it saying that it happened what, a half dozen times over 30 years? Not to mention that was prior to the C model upgrade so they didn't have to use binoculars anymore. As for what it still does better, quick reaction CAS is the obvious answer. The F-35 is not meched well for CAS due to how the system is built. Fantastic SEAD platform though.
jybe-ho2@reddit
there have been other incidents not just in DS, it's been a problem for the hole war on terror. that big gun of it's is not as accurate as everyone thinks it is or even as effective against tanks,
and that upgrade package cost as much as a new f-35
FormulaKibbles@reddit
It really wasn't a huge issue during the second go around in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't know where you're getting your information. The fact that the negligible amount of incidents still put the A-10 at the top just shows how good we have gotten to avoiding blue-on-blue from airpower. The accuracy of the gun (which is still the most accurate air-to-ground cannon on any fixed wing aircraft) had nothing to do with the friendly fire incidents anyways. You asked me what it can do better and CAS is still the case. The Air Force just doesn't care much about focusing on it anymore.
jybe-ho2@reddit
there was a study in the 90s were the got a bunch of old T-60 tanks and lined them up in the desert. out of 500 rounds less than 7o hit their targets and only about a dozen of those did any real damage to the tanks
FormulaKibbles@reddit
I'm not familiar with that specific study but find some on the accuracy of any other jets' cannon (Viper, Mudhen, F-35) and you will be shocked at how inaccurate they are comparatively. I can tell you with experience that the only time an A-10 strafe misses a stationary target is when you have a gun that isn't boresighted correctly or a brand new pilot who hasn't figured it out yet. Obviously every round won't hit a target when you're shooting over a mile away.
jybe-ho2@reddit
Tt's that strafing isn't very useful anymore, not when you can drop a laser guided bomb on its head, or shoot an ATGM, especially with moder tank armor. guns are going the way of the dodo, I'm sure we will keep making gun pods for planes, but it is getting harder and harder to justify the extra weight and internal volume
it's even harder to justify when you can drop that bomb/missile from a standoff distance out of the rang of say a ZSU-23-4 Shilka remember those go Brrrrt too
FormulaKibbles@reddit
You can keep moving the goalposts all day but the A-10 utilizes everything the others jets use for air-to-ground. JDAMS, LGBs, rockets, SDBs, etc. The difference is that the faster jets can drop JDAMS from a further distance. The gun is usually the last thing you would use unless you need to immediately role in and get ordnance down quick, which is where the F-35 struggles unfortunately.
jybe-ho2@reddit
the thing is those other jets can do other thing besides CAS. the A-10 is a one trick pony in a world that's moving towards multi-role fighters. the A-10 might have been the right jet for taking on Soviet tank columns in east Germany, with nothing but trees as collateral damage. but that's not the war that we are likely to face any more
FormulaKibbles@reddit
Yea, obviously but what was this whole conversation about? It certainly wasn't about what other jets can do in addition to CAS. In a world where money doesn't matter the A-10 would live for another 10+ years. The A-10 is very good at what it does. In a war with China, the last thing the Air Force is thinking about is giving joes on the ground effective CAS.
ImYourHumbleNarrator@reddit
it's been heavily used in anywhere where air superiority is established, specifically for ground strikes where enemies don't have air defense, on troop. there are plenty of videos of them in the 2k3 iraq war, and the whole "brrr" meme is base on them
jybe-ho2@reddit
the F-111 has more tank kills than the A-10 and the brrrrt meme is just that a meme. the A-10 doesn't even have data link, the piolet has to use binoculars to identify targets. leading to plenty of friendly fire incidence. there's a reason the air-force wants to get rid of the thing.
spankr@reddit
100% B-52
Gripen-Viggen@reddit
The 21. Oh she's a tempest. Thank you mentioning this fine aircraft.
Equivalent-Way-5214@reddit
The F-16 has more capabilities than the other two.
Backsight-Foreskin@reddit
So has the Huey
wil9212@reddit
Someone had to say it
WLFGHST@reddit
modern=last \~10-20 years
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
I’ll define it as being able to operate against a near peer adversary in contested airspace.
The B-52? No. The Mig-21? Has (India vs Pakistan) and stands a lot better chance.
Taaargus@reddit
But then you're just excluding all bombers and transport planes, which obviously can be described as plenty effective.
Limp-Acanthisitta372@reddit
Yes it depends especially on how "effective" is defined. I'd say the F-4 put way more ordnance on target and distributed far more MiG parts in higher-threat environments.
Armamore@reddit
This is a wide open statement, and very hard to get a clear answer to. How do you compare the effectiveness of an F-15 to a B-52, or a C-17? And how far back do we go? Does the C-47 count? What about aircraft like the MiG-25 that were poor tactically but huge strategically? So many directions for this to go, but it sparked an interesting discussion.
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
Modern is obviously furst gen and forward. So you're talking 1940's. Effective would be defined as success in carrying out it's missions. This doesn't need to get complicated.
ViperCancer@reddit
What gen do you think the viper is?
uwotmVIII@reddit
Well, I’m sure they know it’s not first gen. They said they’re referring to all fighters since first gen fighters, which would be up to and including current gen fighters.
ViperCancer@reddit
Did they have ‘since’ in the question? I must have misread that. Been deleted since.
shadyspecks@reddit
F16 is a fourth gen fighter....
uwotmVIII@reddit
They said starting at first gen fighters. That would include fourth gen.
JimfromMayberry@reddit
Exactly
Potential-Radio-475@reddit
We know the F15 is the greatest fighter ever. What is the second best fighter? Is it American?
yegocego@reddit
f15 only shoot down 1960s planes
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
It shot down mig 29s, which are newer than the f15, not to mention the f15 was developed in the 60s
yegocego@reddit
f15 was NOT developed in the 60s its production began after the official release of mig25 which was around 1974-1975 and it ended in 1976 just shooting down two migs with long range weapons doesnt say anything about the airframe of that aircraft the other 102 engagements we’re either poorly maintained mig 21s or 23s if f14 or f16 had been sent in the same missions they would also achieve the same results because most of those kills were either in the 80s or the 90s
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
Uhh no. F15's F-X program began in 1965, and the Mig 25 was revealed in 1966. You are so incorrect it's hilarious, literally just Google f15 first flight, it'll say 1972, and it's design was finalized around 1969-1970. I don't think you understand that, 1. The f15 shot down 4-5 mig 29's, and 2. Two of those were in a 2v1 engagement at relatively close range, where the f15 shot down 2 mig 29s in like 30 seconds.
yegocego@reddit
USAF needed a air superiority fighter jet and they began the project by giving the license to mcdonnel douglas and they started developing the first prototype and the first prototype of f15 flew in 1972 but original f15 didnt fly in service until late 1976 that plane just got its airframe designed in 1969
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
And, the MiG 29 didn't fly in service until 1983. My point still stands lol, I said developed in the 60s, and I was right.
yegocego@reddit
mig 29 is literally a dogshit budget fighter lets see the results when f15 faces su 27 or any other su fighter jet it would be equal stop giving praise to a plane that only shot down mig 21s and mig 23s
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
My guy the mig29 was the premier "lightweight" fighter of the Soviet Union, and it still is to this day. It was the Soviet response to the f16, and was expected to be a great fighter for wvr, and good for bvr. It's debatable as to whether or not the su27 would have performed better, but the US implemented the aim 120 a lot earlier than the Russians, during the Gulf war, so had the f15 faced the su27 during the Gulf war, it would have been a bloodbath lol.
yegocego@reddit
r27 was in service by 83
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
R27 is the counter to the AIM 7, not 120
yegocego@reddit
r77 was also made in the 80s so my point stands
ConclusionSmooth3874@reddit
No, it wasn't, it didn't see production until 1994. Can you even try to be honest?
yegocego@reddit
it began mass production in 94 and im not russian bro im not biased to any side unlike you youre just being an annoying cheeseburger you know mig 29 is a dogshit budget fighter and you know f15 was developed in the 70s and it mostly shot down early cold war -vietnam era fighters but cant acknowledge it
yegocego@reddit
also a lot of engagements in the gulf war were close quarters dogfighting so you wouldnt really need long range missiles an aim9 would do just fine
yegocego@reddit
it wasn’t developed in the 60s its CONCEPT begin in late 69 and the whole plane didnt come together until the 70s if we applied your logic the p51 was developed in the 20s f4 in the 40s just accept its a mid 70s fighter even its wiki page says that the only 10 series jet that was developed in the 60s was the f14
yegocego@reddit
they just had the idea if creating a fighter opposing the mig 25 but it was made and released in the 70s that plane literally has a microcomputer and a microprocessor those things didnt came in until late 1972
Plipooo@reddit
Nah. Rafale.
cyber-anal@reddit
Rafale Eater would like a word with you.
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
The F-15 has never once faced a near peer adversary that was both willing and capable.
Allobroge-@reddit
F22 is a better fighter than the f15
QuaintAlex126@reddit
On paper? Yes.
In reality, also yes but there are caveats. It’s much more expensive to produce and maintain, which is a big reason to why production for it was ended so early. Nobody can deny how lethal it is, unless it’s some Russian bot
Proud_Click9914@reddit
F15 prob. 0-104 kill ratio
gwdope@reddit
Most effective? F-15C, has 104 kills to 0 losses. That’s pretty damn effective.
swordfish45@reddit
Depends on definition of effective.
K/d ratio doesn't always win games
gwdope@reddit
My point is it’s roll is air dominance. It’s dominated in the air 100%. That’s effective for its purpose.
mkosmo@reddit
The P-51 is largely responsible for the air domination of an entire continent. That deserves some credit, too.
gwdope@reddit
That’s arguable, but a whole lot of P-51 were lost, and the inability of Germany to train and replace pilots it lost is the biggest reason it lost the air war. It was an attritional battle and the P-51 was outclassed in most regimes of flight by most of what Germany had in the air, it just had more numbers at first and then pilots trained to a much higher degree in the later stages.
ohhellperhaps@reddit
That's the problem with most of these comparisons. Very few recent conflicts were against equally trained and equipped (at least like for like) forces.
mkosmo@reddit
Bullshit.
It was the first airframe capable of getting fighters that far inland, and it held its own even early enough in the war that the germans had people, material, and talent. The P-51 is one of the aircraft that is responsible for them no longer having the people, material, or talent.
It wasn't alone, sure, but it was a huge advance in allied air power.
gwdope@reddit
It had better range and slightly better top speed at some altitudes but was outclassed in turn rate, climb rate, weapons and armor by all the 109’s Germany had when it got there. I didn’t say it wasn’t a part of the victory it just wasn’t some unmatched machine head and shoulders above what it was fighting.
mkosmo@reddit
And yet the P-51 wins in armament, speed, and survivability. The term "better" is determined by the whole package, not just a couple metrics. Especially not the metrics that are what Warthunder players use to pick it compared to others.
The P-51 claimed over 5,000 kills in Europe during its service. Yes, that pales compared to the 15,000 the Bf-109 can claim, but most of those were soviet kills. It's record became far less impressive on the western front against Americans... especially with the P-51, P-47, and P-38.
gwdope@reddit
The BF-109 kill ratio was 21:1, the P-51 was 11:1, just off of that it wasn’t the most effective fighter in the war. The spitfire was 13:1, so it wasn’t even the most effective fighter for the allies.
And none of that compares to the 52:1 total for the F-15 when including surface to air losses and 104:0 in air to air.
SidewaysGoose57@reddit
Just for arguments sake, how many victories were aganst much inferior Soviet aircraft like I-15? That was a biplane for heavens sake. The P-51 fought 109's, FW190's and ME262's.
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
And the F6F had the highest kill ratio of any WWII aircraft.
And the problem with using that as a measure of success is the same as the F-15.
By the time the F6F was in combat most of the experienced Japanese pilots were dead, fuel shortages were greatly curtailing training… and Zeros could not even take off or land without constantly being harassed by Hellcats overhead (Thatch’s Big Blue Blanket) due to insane numerical superiority.
Because there were a few instances of crack Japanese fighter pilots luring lone green Hellcat pilots into a trap. Just start your Zero climbing slowly as the Hellcat follows until you are pointing up about 30-40 degrees and airspeed is slowing to 100 mph. Then as the F6F stalls… you loop over the top and shoot it down.
Rolls-RoyceGriffon@reddit
The trap you were talking about, that only works with Wildcats iirc. The Hellcat has a lot more power and that trick doesn't work anymore when they tried to lure Hellcats into traps thinking they were Wildcats
burlycabin@reddit
Oh man, the Hellcat has my heart. Such a beautiful aircraft.
QuaintAlex126@reddit
We’re talking about modern warfare/aircraft though, not WW2.
mkosmo@reddit
"Modern warfare" as a concept usually includes Korea, in which the P-51 served as a fighter and attack aircraft.
Rawinza555@reddit
Yeah ask the funny mustache man.
TheSkrub772@reddit
gwdope@reddit
The f-15C’s moto is “not a pound for air to ground” it doesn’t even have an air to ground sight for its 20mm cannon. It’s entirely an air dominance platform, and it’s the most proven effective airframe in history at that roll. I’m not going to judge an airframe on shit it wasn’t designed for.
TheSkrub772@reddit
It was never meant to carry bombs yes, but they realized that only air to air wasn't effective in the past because of the lack of enemy opposition in the air, so they did add the capability for bombs. The most effective aircraft shouldn't be the most effective at one thing. The most effective aircraft should be something that you would pick for any scenario.
gwdope@reddit
The Charley has never carried bombs in service. The D was turned into a strike aircraft by Israel, and the E was the interdiction fighter developed to be multi role.
BugFixBingo@reddit
The Boeing B-29 Superfortress bomber ended WWII with a couple of missions. That's effective if the purpose of aircraft made for war is to finish them.
F6Collections@reddit
And cost more than the atomic bomb to design and produce.
gwdope@reddit
That is the first good argument for a different aircraft I’ve seen, but this is modern aircraft we’re talking about here I guess.
BugFixBingo@reddit
The B-2 Spirit is advanced, but it won’t be considered "modern" in 10 years. Many of its systems aren’t even cutting-edge today. This just points out the ambiguity of the term "modern" in this context. However, at its core, all military aircraft are designed with the primary purpose of winning or ending wars, and nothing surpasses the B-29’s achievements.
Kerberos42@reddit
Hey c’mon that’s a pretty bold claim. I mean the F-22 has shot down a balloon.
thegoldenavatar@reddit
Is the F-22 the Darelle Revis of fighters? Stats aren't eye-pooping because no one even wants to try them.
MaddingtonBear@reddit
It's because the mission hasn't existed. We haven't gone against enemy aircraft in combat since about 20 minutes into the Iraq war in 2003 and other platforms are much more capable at air-to-ground. We used them some in Syria where circumstances demanded, since it's otherwise very risky to put F-22s in the same airspace as Russian fighters.
W00DERS0N60@reddit
Found the NY Jets fan.
thegoldenavatar@reddit
Hardly. Just thought it was appropriate in this case. I can't really name another good Jets CB.
2Stoop1d4Username@reddit
Sauce, Aaron Glenn too and he just became the coach lmao
imadreamgirl@reddit
Cromartie? can’t name too many others
Crazy__Donkey@reddit
And the f16 shot down a nuclear reactor. Twice.
skippythemoonrock@reddit
Not the Raptor's fault that in 20+ years nobody else has put up anything worth its time.
TheGoldenStateofMind@reddit
Just let the kid out of the hangar, please
Tricky-Home-7194@reddit
Awesome comment. Take my upvote…but I think ww1 planes shot down more balloons. Not a fair comparison but they didn’t have missiles.
TinKnight1@reddit
Those were only flying at around 3000-4000ft at most, & typically around 1000-2000ft, & filled with extremely-flammable hydrogen, which meant sparks & incendiary rounds could cause them to explode violently. Balloons then were so dangerous that they counted as a kill just like shooting down planes.
The Chinese balloon the F-22 shot down in 2023 was filled with non-flammable helium and at 58,000ft. If they'd shot at it with a cannon, as Canadian F-18s did with a similar balloon in 1998, it would just have hundreds of small holes & slowly leak gas... With that incident in 1998, the balloon reportedly was hit over 1000 times by 20mm cannon fire over Newfoundland, but still stayed aloft long enough to cross the Atlantic & overfly the UK before veering off to Iceland & further north.
Obvious-Hunt19@reddit
I shot down a shitload of balloons in Red Baron for the Apple II
LooksRightBreaksLeft@reddit
Thank you for your service.
Tricky-Home-7194@reddit
Call the Air Force. They need you!
AllyBeetle@reddit
Those WWI planes actually used their guns to shoot down balloons.
Canthinkofnameee@reddit
The F-22 has a 50% accuracy rating, so clearly it must be the winner /s
SomeCrustyDude@reddit
Fun fact: the F-22 that shot the first Chinese balloon down was from the 27th Fighter Squadron, Fighting Eagles, but nicknamed the "Balloon Busters". They have a rich history, dating back to WW1, where they did shoot down dozens of observation balloons. Liuetenant Frank Luke, whom Luke Air Force Base is named for, was a member of the 27th. He downed 18 German balloons, is a triple ace, and was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor.
MaksweIlL@reddit
We needed F-22s when the great Cleveland Balloonfest '86 disaster happened.
Kerberos42@reddit
That definitely would have been its time to shine.
Chemist391@reddit
I really hope that pilot got a balloon logo stenciled on their plane.
gwdope@reddit
Isn’t it two balloons? You take a kill away from the kid it’s going to get angry!
thinkscotty@reddit
I'd vote F-15 too. Potentially the most dominant air to air fighter ever- the fact that it's being ordered new for the US while being almost 50 years old testifies to its strength. It's never been tested in a true peer conflict but nor has any fighter since Vietnam, and 104-0 is an insane record that will likely never be beat. It has shot down satellites, landed on one wing, and flown half a century of combat from the arctic circle to the Sahara desert and never ever been shot down.
Oh and it also has an effective strike variant on top of all that.
That's wild.
lmaononame@reddit
In uncontested airspace with numerical advantage, against poorly trained pilots in obsolete aircraft. F15 sO CooL!
guynamedjames@reddit
The F-16 is certainly one of the most prolific modern fighters thanks to the relatively low cost. But there are planes that are more effective without having anywhere near the same level of experience (F-35) and planes that are just flat out better but more expensive (F-15).
The F-15 is probably the most effective with a decent size combat record
Syrdon@reddit
Effective feels like the sort of word you need to append "for its time" to. So you'd need to find a way to average the effectiveness of the F-16 over the last fifty years, and then find a way to compare that to the average effectiveness of the F-35 over the last ten and at least next twenty, in order to have a reasonable comparison.
The F-15 is easier, not least because you don't need to invent time travel first.
SecretSquirrel-88@reddit
Yeah but it’s never been in a fair fight though has it? Not like ww2 where countries and aircraft were more equal.
It could still well be the F15 but I think it’s important to point that out.
Quirky_Ad1604@reddit
Not to mention the F-15 has put in some work as a close air support platform as well.
Flyguy90x@reddit
*F-15E. I’ve heard the unofficial motto of the Charlies is “not a pound for air-to-ground”
56575657576567@reddit
To be fair, think about ground attack aswell. In that case f-16 is pretty versatile. Also you specified C model so I will not be considering the E
redcat111@reddit
That was my first thought. But, I thought about how many F-16s have been made by many different countries and it’s still very competitive with the F-15. It’s pretty debatable.
the_Q_spice@reddit
Just don’t look at what generation practically all it’s kills come from…
The F-15C has very few peer kills (mostly due to the operations it has been involved in)
Also, if kill:loss ratio is what we are talking about, you have to take into account that #2 on that list is… the Sea Harrier… (20 victories, 0 losses).
WLFGHST@reddit
they said modern.
gwdope@reddit
F-16 first flight was 2 years after the F-15’s. What are you on about?
WLFGHST@reddit
He’s saying what plane has been most effective in modern times, not best since it was first flown.
In the last ~10-20 years has the F-16 or F-15 (or anything else) proved to be the most effective?
warthogboy09@reddit
The F-15Es have been flying round the clock in Southeast Asia for the last decade and a half. Is that not effective?
WLFGHST@reddit
Yes, but the 104 kills the comment mentions were not.
warthogboy09@reddit
Right, but if the goal is most effective 'modern' aircraft, the combination of the 2 factors together makes a pretty unmatchable statement.
LightningFerret04@reddit
Which brings up the issue that the top comment mentions: that “modern” is a mostly subjective term
WLFGHST@reddit
Yeah I feel like we need an actual definition of “modern” but I feel like it the 80-90s are anything but modern.
bobbsy1996@reddit
I had a wing commander in the USAF that was an eagle driver and would always say “we don’t win wars 51 to 49, we win wars 104 to 0!”
mdang104@reddit
It has 0 losses from another aircraft. But has been shot down numerous times from SAM
gwdope@reddit
2 times.
mdang104@reddit
So it isn’t 0 losses
gwdope@reddit
Zero Air to air losses. Fighters are judged on air to air kills as that’s what they do, and even with those taken into account, the F-15 is still miles ahead of any other modern fighter.
mdang104@reddit
So you really think that A2A is the only thing fighters are designed to do, and the only metric on which to measure their effectiveness? Here are some fighters that would be better and more survivable A2A platform than a F15: Rafale, Eurofighter, F35, F22. Yet none of them have “104-0”
gwdope@reddit
For the F-15 A through D, yes. Not a pound for air to ground. I’m not going to judge an air superiority fighter that wasn’t designed to do any air to ground on its air to ground effectiveness.
mdang104@reddit
My point is the F15 is proven and was highly effective at the time. But just because it has a 104-0 A2A kill ratio doesn’t make it better than other fighters with a smaller (or null) A2A kill number.
ThatKidThatKillsMeme@reddit
And if I remember right that’s counting a satellite as well as an unguided bomb kill on a helicopter too
nighthawke75@reddit
Brand new F-16s took out a new nuclear reactor.
gwdope@reddit
A pile of fiberglass, a lawnmower engine and a gps can pull that off these days.
nighthawke75@reddit
Made In Russia? A Russian drone "accidentally" hit Reactor 4's containment dome....
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
It’s never faced a near peer adversary.
It’s also been shot down a few times by ground forces.
warthogboy09@reddit
God I am so sick of the BS excuse. I wish with all my heart they had just shot down that Russian Su-34 idiot in 2019 just to finally shut it down for good.
gwdope@reddit
It faced MiG-29’s that were designed at the same time as it was. Its superior design and implementation can’t be held against it. It’s only been shot down twice by SAM’s. No other modern air superiority fighter has that kind of record.
refrigerator5@reddit
The MiG-29s it faced were essentially blind without ground radar while the F-15s had AWACS. I personally feel that the reason the F-15 has such a good record is because it isn't widely exported compared to the F-16 and the only wars it has fought in were against nations at a massive disadvantage.
old_righty@reddit
104-0 look out below!
brandnewbanana@reddit
I took out a satellite just for show!
ekhfarharris@reddit
And I beat Saturn V in a race to space!
Bardiche_Cryo@reddit
Tally on bandits time to earn my pay
IceMan_NH@reddit
This is the comment chain I was looking for.
Qweel@reddit
The F-16 is 72-0, so statistically their kd are both infinite
Pattern_Is_Movement@reddit
Thats cute, a lot of German aces had several times that many kills in planes like the 109.
Unnecessary-Shouting@reddit
god it looks so good, like a slightly more modernish tomcat, a beautiful machine
gwdope@reddit
They were only first flown two years apart.
Unnecessary-Shouting@reddit
yeah that's where the slightly part comes in xD
CrazedAviator@reddit
There’s a reason it’s referred to as one of the greatest fighters in history
vodkapinatapod@reddit
This is likely the correct answer, subjective of course
Orlando1701@reddit
And that’s why the Eagle is the GOAT of air to air combat.
Blackhawk004@reddit
Ask any infantry and they will tell you the A-10 is the best.
wiisucks_91@reddit
The f-22 took out a balloon! 🎈 🔫 😏
Blackhawk004@reddit
There is an A-10 pilot with an F-16 and a F-22 in simulated dog fighting!😂🤣
tenasan@reddit
We don’t even know what china has, so maybe maybe not.
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
Valid
stuntin102@reddit
well, two b29’s dropped just two bombs and killed between 150-246,000 people.
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
Too soon?
Sedlacep@reddit
No
RaccoNooB@reddit
Obviously it's the Saab J29 "The Barrel".
It was a pioneer amongst jet fighters and there hasn't been a single invasion of Sweden since it's inception.
The barrel is love, the barrel is life.
RobertWilliamBarker@reddit
I didn't know about it. Looked it up..... that name is prefect lol
Busy_Birthday_1090@reddit
Didn’t Ukraine just lose a few this month?
Busy_Birthday_1090@reddit
F-15 has entered the chat
StrigiStockBacking@reddit
It's not the "flying falcon." Falcons by definition fly. It's "fighting" falcon
adrop62@reddit
The C-130 Hercules
Cargo, Jump platform, short-field ops, the most effective airborne tank, refueling delivery platform, weather-recon, and it can land/take off on an aircraft carrier.
chunkymonk3y@reddit
As a platform the c130 is easily the most versatile, jack-of-all-trades aircraft every built.
Status-Simple9240@reddit
388 TFW out of Hill AFB, I cant tell you what block it is. Great plane, sexy as f. Best? C130 is probably the best plane, B52 if you need something gone, F15 if you need something shot down, F16 is best poster in a boys room from the 1980s. I was in 421 TFS part of 388TFW, i still love this jet
mapoftasmania@reddit
A-10 Thunderbolt is probably the most effective.
Oxytropidoceras@reddit
At killing allies maybe
machinistery@reddit
Yes! (I am extremely bias towards the f-16)
mechabeast@reddit
It's missing a sweet tape deck though
curiosity-12@reddit
Is this an Iron Eagle reference?
mechabeast@reddit
Depends. Are you old enough to rock and roll?
No_Cranberry1853@reddit
Dammit Chappy Im doing it my way!
pbmadman@reddit
In terms of successfully performing its mission it’s also hard to argue against the A-10. If we aren’t restricted to combat aircraft then the C-130 is an absolute rock star of an aircraft. B-52? F-15? E-3? UH-1? UH-60 (and all its variants)?
In the end it really comes down more to how you define the terms. Effective, modern and warfare all need rigorous definitions before it’s possible to have a sensible conversation.
The thing that stands out to me about the F-16 is how much ordinance it can carry. I was recently at Pima air and space and they have the B-17 exhibit and it really hit me how much work and toil and human sacrifice went in to dropping a fairly paltry amount of bombs on a target.
The B17 could carry between 4-17,000 pounds of ordinance depending on the variant and load out. F-16 maxes out at 15,000. That just blows my mind how much stuff you can bolt on to it.
Shot-Depth-1541@reddit
Wasn't the A-10 outperformed by other aircraft in CAS in both the Gulf War and Afghanistan?
Oxytropidoceras@reddit
Yes, extremely outclassed. For every 1 sortie an A-10 got, an F-16 and an F/A-18 got one as well. And the Viper and Hornet both scored a higher kill ratio per weapon dropped than the A-10 while also incurring less friendly fire casualties and less losses to ground fire
budoe@reddit
The US estimated in a full scale invasion of Western Europe by the Warsaw Pact the A-10 fleet would be combat ineffective in anywhere from 2-7 days.
Against the MiG-23 and 29. And a fleet of around 700 planes.
Works fine as a platform to launch AGMs from in near or total air superiority.
Shot-Depth-1541@reddit
Exactly. The A-10 is only feasible in non-contested airspace like Afghanistan.
pbmadman@reddit
Maybe. After I typed that I realized I actually didn’t know many details of the A-10 performance but rather the legends and myths of its performance.
matsutaketea@reddit
A-10 the most effective at friendly fire
CotswoldP@reddit
My money would go on the F-4 Phantom. Held the line both ashore and afloat during the toughest parts of the Cold War, and still in service today.
Oxytropidoceras@reddit
The phantom is still the world's leading distributor of MiG parts
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
I don't think so.
I think its the f-35.
Hear me out,
-Unmatched capabilities, stealth, BVR, datalink.
-Record setting safety, I've posted part before. The f-16 lost like 150 planes in the first 10 years with around 75 deaths (pilots + ground crew). The f-35 (again first ten years) lost less than 20 aircraft without a single death. The f-35 benefited from skipping the growing pains of fly-by-wire.
-Manufacturing, the f-35 is built all over the world. You can glass the entire USA and the f-35 can still be maintained for a long time.
I have long held the belief that the f-35 is the single greatest military deterrent since the inception of NATO.
Much like the f-22's underwhelming 0 kill record, the f-35 existing is enough to deter aggression.
Thanks for coming to my ted-talk, I'm rambling in the corner of my local pub Friday nights until around 2am.
RaccoNooB@reddit
What's your argument for rating the F35 over the F22?
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
Number of aircraft, number of operators, the aforementioned safety record, operating cost.
I think the 35 beats the 22 at BVR, can't win a dog fight if you never end in the merge.
RaccoNooB@reddit
What armament does the F35 have that the F22 doesn't? Since the F-22 is overall faster I'd think it has a better turn-over time (if there isn't a long ritual to re-arming/refueling it) which would mean more outgoing missiles from team F22.
SoylentVerdigris@reddit
I was going to say the 35 could theoretically carry the new AIM174, but turns out the 22 wing hardpoints actually are able to mount missiles. I thought they were just for fuel tanks. Realistically though using the 22 as a missile truck is a waste of its stealth.
Conventional weapons aside though, the 35 does have significantly better sensors, avionics, and electronic warfare capabilities.
Oxytropidoceras@reddit
An F-22 with wing mounted AIM-174s is still going to have an extremely small RCS.
Shot-Depth-1541@reddit
I mean isn't the purpose of the F-15EX to carry a shit ton of missiles so the F-35s can guide them to their targets?
ForzaElite@reddit
All the IR based fusion, though that may change in the future. As of now though the combo of RF and IR should let the F-35 build a weapons quality track faster and/or at further ranges. Whether or not it's enough time/distance to be tactically relevant....prob not gonna get an answer here
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
an/apg-77 (f35) vs an/apg-81 (f-22)
Better radar.
mduell@reddit
Fat Amy? Can’t run, can’t turn, can’t fight?
Charming-Brother4030@reddit
can sit in the back of the map and snipe
mduell@reddit
Have to sit in the back of the map and snipe.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875
budoe@reddit
>Build gen 5 stealth fighter.
>Dont use this and go dogfighting with instead.
Why send an amraam into the cockpit of a Su-27 that had no idea you existed when you can turnfight.
Charming-Brother4030@reddit
have to? more like there is no merit to even bother running and turning
gogoguy5678@reddit
Doesn't need to run or turn to fight?????????
mduell@reddit
Exactly what you'd say if you can't.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875
BiAsALongHorse@reddit
It's a competitive multirole when lightly loaded, and there isn't much that can compete with equivalent fuel loading (since an F-16 with a weight specific fuel loading would be carrying drop tanks, CFTs, external A2A missiles and possibly A2G munitions. Harder for the F-35 to punch what it could otherwise punch, but if we normalize by combat radius here, it's straight up better
QuaintAlex126@reddit
Are we still on this topic lmao?
The F-35 can do all of the above. If you just spent a little time doing some research, you’d find out that it can dogfight just fine, and that its lower top speed is irrelevant.
mduell@reddit
It's a reference to the (in)famous F-35 report/War is Boring post: https://medium.com/war-is-boring/test-pilot-admits-the-f-35-can-t-dogfight-cdb9d11a875
hhaattrriicckk@reddit
The f-15 killed the dogfight. Israel proved it by stat padding the eagle against gen3's and other gen4's for nearly 20 years.
Embarrassed_Log8344@reddit
ICBM. 0 kills, much like the F22, but it's existence stopped many big-time wars.
Original--Lie@reddit
Russia recently used an ICBM against Dnipro in Ukraine, so actually 1 kill
Embarrassed_Log8344@reddit
Using an ICBM and only getting one kill is hilariously bad. Unless they were only trying to disable infrastructure?
ZarnoLite@reddit
Balloon erasure
brandnewbanana@reddit
And aliens
zyzmog@reddit
It's certainly the sexiest, most beautiful warplane ever built. And it's the hottest obsolete fighter jet in the air today.
The Israelis and others have proven its versatility and flexibility.
F-15 fans may disagree. I say there's room for both. But I will always prefer the F-16.
FastPatience1595@reddit
Certainly not the absolute best in performance & avionics (Mirage 2000, F-15, Su-27 are better, one way or another). But by far the best bargain - best bang for the bucks, as they say. There are good reasons why the F-16 is closing in the Phantom production run of 5200, the F-16 stands at 4700 so far.
Basically a good performance package inside a colossal production run that dropped unit cost to the floor, before even cheaper second-hand airframe flooded the market (Argentina, cough).
Its main competitors were the F-18, MiG-29 and Mirage 2000, and the F-16 sold more than all of them combined (or close).
SadPhase2589@reddit
Pound for pound, dollar for dollar, yes.
Britt801@reddit
1954-current day 2025 the C-130 in its many configurations.
radix2@reddit
Unpopular opinion: A passenger aircraft loaded with fuel and controlled by people of evil intent caused an existential crisis in the then most powerful force on Earth. And almost one quarter of a century later, they still have not healed.
Zorg_Employee@reddit
Statistical the f-15 is more effective. 102 a2a vs 0 losses.
jk01@reddit
104
Unusual_Mess_7962@reddit
Good point, the F-104 destroyed a lot of planes!
mkosmo@reddit
Everything that's never been shot down has the same ratio, including the F-22 and F-35.
And surprisingly, the Sea Harrier.
Tom_Bombadil_1@reddit
Sea harrier was a great plane man. Put some respect on its dinky little name
Other-Barry-1@reddit
Tbf, and I say this as a Brit, the Sea Harrier had the advantage that the Argentinian jets were operating at their maximum range and would try to not engage the Harriers because they didn’t have the fuel to fly all the way out, fight and get back. So that definitely skewed the figures a bit
mkosmo@reddit
Winning isn't just about having the better gear - it's also about knowing how to best use it to give you the advantage. It'd be silly to be better equipped and prepared than the other guy just to let him have the high ground lol.
SirLoremIpsum@reddit
I wish all the reddit subs would acknowledge this lol.
"oh xx nation should have gone with yy platform cause the plane is 10 knots faster and carries 1 more missile"... yeah sure. It's 5 x the cost so they get fewer jets, it's a foreign buy so lack of domestic production, it's not common to the existing fleet so unfamiliarity with performance/logistics/training/maintenance.
LooksRightBreaksLeft@reddit
canttakethshyfrom_me@reddit
Imagine being the pilot of a subsonic airplane with no BVR capability, and being told "Cheers lads, you're all on fighter CAP since we've gone to war just after getting rid of the only ship we can launch Phantoms from," and proceeding to absolutely dominate what seemed like a credible opfor.
Sulemain123@reddit
The Sea Harrier FRS.1 was still a dedicated naval fighter with a dedicated radar and dedicated AAMs. Nothing compared to the FA.2 of course but it wasn't nothing.
mkosmo@reddit
For sure, that's kind of my point, though! It served for a long time in all kinds of conflicts globally... and despite having the agility of a cicada, it still managed to perform the attack/cas role without getting shot down somehow.
Pavores@reddit
Sort of. The F22 has only a balloon kill. It's almost certainly more effective than an F15 at air superiority, but it's not combat proven to the same degree since the F22 has been mostly used as a deterrent.
mkosmo@reddit
I really only meant the ratio, literally, since all of them have 0 air-to-air losses, making all their ratios "cannot divide by zero"
Even 0/0 is the same ;-)
Webbyx01@reddit
Well we could get really nerdy and start looking at limits and how infinity can be different sizes.
mkosmo@reddit
No no, excel settled it. They both have a “#!DIV/0” ratio.
You can’t argue the holy excel!!!
rockbandit@reddit
Those of us who are Sea Harrier fans know that this isn't a surprise at all.
BigJellyfish1906@reddit
That's just one way to look at it. There are many. What about Sorties Flown vs Enemies Destroyed? What about Ground taken per flight hour? What about Bombs Dropped vs Fuel Used?
mdang104@reddit
F15 has been shot down by SAM
wwhijr@reddit
That's a surface to air engagement not air to air.
mdang104@reddit
It’s misleading to say 104-0
YOURE_GONNA_HATE_ME@reddit
No it isn’t, because it’s based on air to air engagements.
truthisnothateful@reddit
Still on my list of top 3 fighter aircraft.
Unlucky-Constant-736@reddit
I would give that title to our freighters and refuelers. We would not have the international presence without them.
Bigking00@reddit
F-15.
lex98123@reddit
No, f15
SwedishWaffle@reddit
It's what anyone (outside of this sub) pictures when they hear "fighter jet"!
aim9inyourface@reddit
F 117 i think
Independent_Vast9279@reddit
B-52 is GOAT. But for fighters, yeah F-16 is pretty amazing.
shutdown-s@reddit
No, it's operated by a fuckton of Countries, so the data is skewed.
Dommlid@reddit
Spitfire, Hurricane, Mustang? Modern fighters have rookie figures
bulgarian_zucchini@reddit
Bf109 then is the most savage of them all.
Savamoon@reddit
Yeah the only reason the Spitfire is even famous in the first place was because it was the first plane that could even go toe to toe with the 109 and hold its own.
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
And the Hurricane killed the most axis aircraft. People need to put some respect to that name
Living_Young1996@reddit
Are the Japanese considered Axis? If so, the P-51 has the most planes downed, followed by the Hellcat, and it's not even close. (~1500 by the Hawker and just under 6000 by the P-51)
I understand there is a vast difference in the types of planes used in different theaters
TinKnight1@reddit
The question was modern warfare. Even then, the claim would be debatable at best.
Armamore@reddit
Can't forget the Corsair, Hellcat, and the Lightning. So many incredible WW2 aircraft.
RAAFStupot@reddit
The C-130 takes that title.
Pumarealjaeger@reddit
Definitely up there considering how many overseas air forces had this jet for their air force
cruiserman_80@reddit
Define modern and define effective.
The Messerschmitt BF-109 was responsible for over 20,000 aerial victories from approx. 35000 airframes produced.
15,000 of those kills were credited to a group of 105 pilots who had achieved 100 or more kills.
While many of those kills were against inferior aircraft flown by poorly trained and inexperienced pilots, the BF 109 had the most kills of any type in WW2 and a win loss ratio of approx 21:1.
glutenfreeironcake@reddit
I would say this is Jointly held by the four aircraft across two types. The 757 and the 767.
Bababacon@reddit
MiG 21, c130, B52, The Bear…maybe T6 Texan would like a word depending how you define effective?
Tuurke64@reddit
Manned fighter aircraft will soon be obsolete in the era of drones IMO.
Britphotographer@reddit
Yeah, and the Brits thought that missiles were the future back in 1963...now where did I land my Eurofighter?
Tuurke64@reddit
And how many of the 10,000 destroyed Russian tanks in Ukraine were hit by conventional aircraft, please?
It was the synergy between drones and artillery that did them in. A synergy like never seen before. Many were hit directly by drones, others by artillery whereby drones told them exactly where to aim. Bang. A bit to the left. Bang. Just a tidbit further. Bang. Gotya.
Drones are changing warfare completely. They're cheaper than the missiles that try to shoot them out of the air. For the price of a plane you can buy like a thousand drones.
They may be unsuitable for obtaining air superiority but flying drones can take out the enemy's landing strips, supply lines and oil refineries with zero risks for the pilots. They force ground troops into trenches. They are the eyes on the battlefield and give artillery 20/20 vision. Naval drones wreaked such havoc on Russian warships that they were forced out of the black sea. Try to achieve that with aircraft.
BiAsALongHorse@reddit
Not really, it's just that you'll have one stealth fighter commanding a ton of CCA drones. It's synergistic
Snobbonmynob@reddit
Strike eagle
Putrid-Painting7566@reddit
*fighting
bockers007@reddit
Most definitely the F15.
damuscoobydoo@reddit
Mig 21
feather1919@reddit
Which definition of effective are we using? If it’s the “best for its price” definition I’d probably say the JAS39. It’s basically an F-16 (similar weaponry and performance) but much less expensive. If we’re going off the “most combat effective in theory” I’d say the F-35. It has one of the best engines, one of the best radars, the best stealth technology (debatably), and some of the best technology in general; while having great air to ground and air to air weaponry. If we’re going off the “most proven combat effectiveness” then I’d say the F-16. It has great multirole capabilities, great speed, great tech, and great weaponry, while being proven to be good in combat.
This is just my (admittedly poorly educated) opinion, so take it with a HEAVY grain of salt.
X-Bones_21@reddit
Nope, just the most beautiful!
Puzzleheaded-Car3562@reddit
The F16 first flown 1976?, and still coveted by many air forces including Ukraine, is surely a candidate at least for the proposed title - after nearly a half century. Yes, the BUFF. But that was only ever a US asset, not a warplane used far and wide for many purposes.
Ferocious-Fart@reddit
F-15’s have also contributed greatly.
PicnicBasketPirate@reddit
Most effective at what?
Kerberos42@reddit
A KC-10 is pretty effective at transferring fuel.
DigitalEagleDriver@reddit
A C-130 is pretty effective at delivering equipment, dropping paratroopers, and as a weapons platform.
Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit
C-5 is most effective at moving troops and equipment.
And this is it. Logistics wins wars. WWII was won with the Liberty Ship, the C-47, the Deuce and a Half, and the K ration…. All things Germans and Japanese wish they had as they stared at their advanced weaponry that was useless without food, fuel, and ammunition.
fighterpilot248@reddit
Just rewatched a documentary about the Battle of Stalingrad. In late November/early December, Germans had roughly 300k troops in the city, which required an estimated 800 tons of food per day. The Luftwaffe was only able to deliver a max of around 15 tons/day.
BossAvery2@reddit
I’d say the C-17 is the most effective at moving troops and equipment in normal operations. Sure the C-5 can have an impressive load but they are not as robust compared to the abuse you can put on the C-17.
canttakethshyfrom_me@reddit
All these years later Russians still haven't embraced pallets or forklifts.
nj_5oh@reddit
Was'
McCheesing@reddit
RIP
TbonerT@reddit
It’s great in a dogfight and it turns out it’s also pretty good at dropping bombs.
shibbypants@reddit
I assumed he meant doing what it was made to do. Is everyone being vague to take a dig at op for being vague?
bassplaya13@reddit
Yeah, maybe the B-29?
PicnicBasketPirate@reddit
Wasn't the B-29 a bit of a problem plagued mess because it was so state of the art and at the bleeding edge of technology?
Iheartmastod0ns@reddit
B-29 was plagued with growing pains since so much was electronically controlled. Crossed wires meant bomb bay door switch caused the left gear to go down, only one flap deploys etc. They did figure it out eventually.
PicnicBasketPirate@reddit
The engines and cooling system were pushed to and beyond their limits as well iirc
wittjoker11@reddit
B-29 has the single aircraft with the highest body count and highest ordnance delivery during war, the Enola Gay. Going by that it’s more effective than any war machine ever.
bulgarian_zucchini@reddit
At being the most effective
Automatater@reddit
It's good, but don't forget the 15 is like 110 & 0 or something.
snowsnoot69@reddit
I love the Viper but its limited range and payload make this a no from me.
Video_Viking@reddit
Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrt.
mightymike24@reddit
F15 undefeated air to air record
hartzonfire@reddit
Coolest looking aircraft for sure. To me it ticks all the stereotypical “fighter jet boxes” from the looks department.
Then you watch a YouTube vidya about the engineering in this bad boy and are even more impressed. It’s my fave!
yegocego@reddit
nope f4 phantom all day that thing can bomb attack strike dogfight become a literal awacs and a spy plane and its nearly 70 years old
Starrion@reddit
Underrated comment. This is absolutely right.
cyber-anal@reddit
Yup, its the F4, cant believe I had to scroll this far. It has basically done every single combat roll. I would argue that its a2a record is more impressive than the F15s considering how many conflicts its been used it and threat its been exposed to. Shit the damn thing is still in operation in Greece to this day.
Near_NYC@reddit
No, most effective prob the two drones that sank that Russian missile cruiser.
2 drones cost nothing compared to the ship they sunk. It don't get more 'effective' than that.
PanteleimonPonomaren@reddit
Those were missiles not drones.
TangoRed1@reddit
Those were Sea Drones not missiles. “MAGURA” drones were used in the attack, six of which hit and ultimately sunk the Russian warship
TinKnight1@reddit
The Magura drones sank the large landing ship Tsezar Kunikov, as well as small boats. That's nothing to scoff at, but they're not major warships.
The Neptune missiles sank the Moskva missile cruiser, which was the Russian flagship of the Black Sea Fleet and a far more valuable prize. It's the biggest & most important warship in the world to be sunk by hostile action since WW2.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Moskva
It notably took place because the Russian radar systems didn't automatically notify the operators of the incoming missiles (as would happen in Western ships), & the air defense systems required manual activation. It was surprising to Western analysts because the Slava/Moskva class was always regarded as a premium-tier air defense ship, on par with American Ticonderoga cruisers.
PanteleimonPonomaren@reddit
Are you not referring to the Moskva? If you are, last I heard it was sunk by 2 Neptune missiles
Syrdon@reddit
What is the difference between a suicide drone and a cruise missile?
I'll grant I can categorize them at the ends of the spectrum, but that middle gets real fuzzy.
imfenbored@reddit
Most effective? Probably not.
Sexiest (modern): Far and away winner.
sadistkarmalade@reddit
Respectfully disagree. winner of sexiest title is reserved for the F/A-18/C
Aviation_enthusiast8@reddit
Again, define modern, cause I’d say the F-4 is the best when it comes to fighters of the last 50 years
Brilliant_Nova@reddit
I would only list aircraft with offensive capabilities
By performance: F35 Mig-31
By Cost/Performance: JAS39
By versatility: SU-35S F18 F15
AWACS, cargo planes and helicopters deserve their own categories
gusto_g73@reddit
I don't know if it's the most effective but it's definitely the coolest
yankeephil86@reddit
Absolutely not, it is the F-15 hands down. 104-0-2
axloo7@reddit
Pby Catalina.
ascii122@reddit
I'd give some odds with Pappy in his Corsair but for sure bad assed. My buddy was flying these and became an instructor and has a lot of stories about blowing away f-18's etc in mock battles stationed in Korea and other places. It's one of the greats!
chiang01@reddit
F-4 Phantom II has to be right up there
Silent_Pollution2475@reddit
What about the enola gay
nayr1683@reddit
History? P51
ChiehDragon@reddit
C-17
Hands down no contest.
RIY2610@reddit
Ah yes, the FLYING Falcon
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
Lmao, give me a break. It was a typo.
RIY2610@reddit
🤣👍 All good!
The-TimPster@reddit
Good overall design, allowing versatility.
Nobodys_Loss@reddit
According to “Iron Eagle” it is!!!!!
D-F-B-81@reddit
Id say no.
It's really really hard to beat 104 : 0.
76 : 1 is damn impressive, but not 104 : 1.
Id say that makes the F-15 most effective.
k12pcb@reddit
No
DragoonEOC@reddit
The f-16 is good but it will be a while until someone beats the eagle in terms of effectiveness
drifters74@reddit
It's one nice aircraft
les1968@reddit
Pretty sure if Jesus had decided not to turn the other cheek he would have called in a low level strike from a squadron of A6 Intruders to settle the Sanhedrin and Romans hash
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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hansolocup7073@reddit
I'm just here to people watch the resident redxperts who claim to know things they really don't for internet clout.
Jackmino66@reddit
If you define “effective” by ratio of successful sorties to losses, then something like an F-117 would certainly be up there. Thousands of sorties, hundreds of successes, 1 loss in combay
ChimpoSensei@reddit
F15 says no
Sleeeper___@reddit
No the F-15 is a year older and already outperforms this thing by miles.
meseacucumber@reddit
In movies yss
wncexplorer@reddit
Since you didn’t specify what effective means, I’m going with the C-130
kosmonavt-alyosha@reddit
Was pretty effective for Doug and Chappie
F0l3yDaD_@reddit
Iron Eagles!!
ArizonaPete87@reddit
As someone that’s 6’5” and worked on the F-16 as a weapons loader (load toad) in the Air Force for 6+ years…. Fuck the F-16, that shit messed my back up lmao.
GarbagePatchGod@reddit
It could be argued that the title should go to some spacecraft that deploys satellites. I can’t imagine any of the aforementioned machines operating effectively enough to defeat a modern enemy without satellite assistance, for which aircraft’s operations are only a small part of the role they play in contemporary warfare. That’s a recent thing, for sure, but if a spacecraft didn’t already hold that dubious honour then I reckon it will soon. I’m not the kind of person who knows enough about such things to name any specific candidate, but it makes sense to me that conventional aircraft would at least have started to lose relevance to spacecraft enough, in the context of warfare, that the bar would have shifted as to what’s the most effective.
zed42@reddit
i would argue it's the A-10, and no amount of damage will stop me
BiAsALongHorse@reddit
The A-10 was outdated when it came into service (due to MANPADS being fielded widely) and the B-1 is a radically better CAS platform. In desert storm the A-10 was quickly prohibited from gun runs because they caused significant blue on blue and exposed themselves to lethal amounts of ground fire. Almost all CAS is done from high altitudes using PGMs. The "C" means the friendlies are close to the target, not that the aircraft is close to the ground
MaksweIlL@reddit
Unless it's in War Thuder.
ForwardAspect4643@reddit
For troop support, absolutely the best. Just ask the Army, they’ve bailed it out of retirement three times now!
surfsnower@reddit
AC-130s for dwell time. A-10 for effectiveness and range of capabilities.
Finest_shitty@reddit
This is exactly where my mind went. Takes a lickin and keeps on tickin!
EstateAlternative416@reddit
AC-130s have entered the chat.
These-Bedroom-5694@reddit
B2. Nuke down a bug hole makes a lot of dead bugs.
Obie-Wun@reddit
Could make an argument for the SR-71 - never lost one on a mission and provided reconnaissance for an awful lot of situations for several decades.
Just a legend of the skies - designed, flown and maintained by legends:
https://youtu.be/hFJMs15sVSY?si=je2y_xRRl3I1rL16
DeltaV-Mzero@reddit
If we are talking historical ,8’e Here to represent the prestigious F-5
BiggusDickus17@reddit
Damn shame we never got a fully fledged F20 Tigershark/Tiger II
Nora_Walkuerie@reddit
The humble Antonov AN-2 still putting in more work than these flashy fighters ever will:
sierra120@reddit
Wait…I always thought it was the Fighting Falcon…one of us is wrong.
Phosphorus444@reddit
I'll tell you which one it's not: the MiG-29
electrikmayham@reddit
C-130 or C-17
Lampwick@reddit
I'd say the F-16 has been one of the best low-cost multirole strike fighters of the jet age. They've made over 4600 of them, so it's the most produced jet fighter still in production, and at 51 years, the jet fighter with the longest continuous production run. That probably means it's the most effective at something.
mkosmo@reddit
Nothing was nearly as effective at keeping up foreign relations as the Tomcat.
MS-07B-3@reddit
It has only one competitor on cool factor, and that's the A-10.
Fortunately they use entirely different kinds of cool.
Crewmember169@reddit
I'm with Snoopy. Sopwith Camel.
max514@reddit
I'd say it's more like the Honda Civic of aircraft. It's reliable, compact, solid, cost effective, scalable, not too high tech, but just enough, and it punches above its weight.
HumbleSiPilot77@reddit
As a Viper and Civic fan for the past 3 decades, I approve this message!
kidscott2003@reddit
Some of you have not watched Habitual Line Crosser and it shows. Or The Fat Electrician. Everyone knows the answer is F-15. Bombed a moving helicopter.
kma311323@reddit
Lockheed AC-130 gunship.
NetizenKain@reddit
When it was released it was the most modern fighter, yes. When it was recent, it was regarded as the most capable fighter, in terms of performance. This airframe can do a 9g turn, and has a very powerful engine, with monstrous afterburners.
Equivalent-Way-5214@reddit
Arguably, pound for pound, yes.
Entire-Meaning702@reddit
FIGHTING Falcon. Most falcons fly. That's kind of a given.
straightedge1974@reddit
Effective at what? There are many, many roles for military aircraft, even among "fighters".
ZorroMcChucknorris@reddit
Makes me want to fire up some Queen on my Walkman and drop the hades bomb.
dirtycaver@reddit
If you wanna just look at stacking bodies, the OH-58D and AH-64 spent quite a few years doing that too….
TheOffKn1ght@reddit
AC-130 gunship deserves a shout
doorbell2021@reddit
C-130 in general, because it is the backbone of so much logistical support that makes every other weapons system effective.
TheManWhoClicks@reddit
Boeing 747 is pretty damn effective. Odd question to ask.
South_East_Gun_Safes@reddit
🇬🇧Spitfire🇬🇧
BugFixBingo@reddit
No, the Boeing B-29 Superfortress bomber ended WWII with a couple of missions.
piranspride@reddit
F15 enters chat
ripshippy77@reddit
What’s with the killer narwahl spear at the nose of the aircraft?
Xenogunter@reddit
Obviously yes.. I remember in this documentary I watched as a kid Doug Masters and Chappy Sinclair basically defeated an entire middle eastern empire with two F-16s.
Freo29@reddit
Absolutely amazing documentary that one! Might even watch it tonight now that you've mentioned it.
Dopplegang_Bang@reddit
The F-16 was and still is one of the most effective and innovative fighters of the US arsenal. Quite cost efficient as well notably.
It has such an iconic look as well. I love the F-16 !
salamandermander99@reddit
F-15
FixergirlAK@reddit
Warthog. Fight me.
Remarkable-Jeweler55@reddit
The book Boyd about Col. John Boyd is absolutely fantastic and it lays out a compelling case for the answer being YES. The F-16 is literally the the military embodiment of the “OODA Loop” and changed our Air Force from being tactical nuclear weapon delivery vehicles for Curtis Lemay to light air-to-air fighters that win every time. The F-16 paved the way for specialized modern air-to-air combat superiority.
TaskForceCausality@reddit
Not quite. For one, Colonel Boyd championed the YF-16- which was a lightweight, high performance day fighter. Not the production F-16, which was missionized by the USAF into something quite different.
See, what they don’t tell ya in the Top Gun screen crawl is that dogfighting is a rare -and mostly irrelevant mission. As Colonel Robin Olds put it, you can’t shoot down enough MiGs to make the enemy surrender. For that, you have to blow stuff up on the ground. It’s a way less glamorous mission- but it’s how airplanes help win wars.
Note Colonel Olds wasn’t decorated for Operation Bolo- he’d be medal’d for his three ship strike on the Thai Nguyen steel mill. The original YF-16 had a negligible air to ground capability. The production F-16 is an aircraft useful to the USAF’s air to ground mission. For this, Colonel Boyd left the Pentagon in protest.
Guilty-Log379@reddit
F-15
frag_grumpy@reddit
That’s not an aircraft, it’s basically a platform for endless customization
jvd0928@reddit
Maybe the FW 190.
TangoRed1@reddit
No - it is the Most spread 4th gen. Only.
If we are talking mission success. It is and WILL always be the F-15E Strike Eagle. you can not argue with BVR AIM-120s
SeaweedCritical1917@reddit
No. Apache
SuspiciousStable9649@reddit
DJI Phantom.
hides behind rock
FujitsuPolycom@reddit
dunno about that, but she is a beauty.
Alarming-Mongoose-91@reddit
Looking at all the aircraft folks have mentioned, it’s not just about ratios but it’s about service life, successes, upgrades, performance, capabilities and such. The F-16 (although not my favorite) is a successor in each category and still performs these duties far past the life of other models. I say it’s definitely the most overall effective comment aircraft, not superior at one thing , just a Jack of all trades.
Mike__O@reddit
Calling the F-16 "modern" is a stretch. The F-16 being in the fight today is the same amount of time since introduction as if the P-51 were still flying during the first Gulf War.
It's a very capable aircraft, but has almost never faced a situation where it wasn't punching down in whatever fight it was in. That's a good place to be when you're fighting a current war, but a precarious one if you're hoping for the same advantage in a future war.
The F-16 would be very vulnerable in a Day 1 fight against a peer-level adversary with a modern IAD system and 5th-gen fighters flown by capable pilots.
monorail_pilot@reddit
The p51 was in operational service until 1984 and possibly later in the Philippines
Mike__O@reddit
Yes, with the DR as well. That's a bit different though. It wasn't a front-line fighter with a first-rate Air Force at that point. Not a slight against those countries, just a statement of reality.
RespectTheTree@reddit
GMILF
MxOffcrRtrd@reddit
I’d go with the U-2S. Still flying after 70 years with a nears 100% mission success rate in modern times.
801ms@reddit
the f15 has a 104-0 k2d
covex_d@reddit
against tribes with no air defence - maybe
InTheDeepestOcean@reddit
The F14 Tomcat: it effectively delivered Top Gun to a grateful nation.
TheVanWithaPlan@reddit
I would put the Harrier and F-15 over it in terms of versatility
Relative-Panic6154@reddit
A-10 > anything else
GhostRiders@reddit
F14 with Maverick
Helmett-13@reddit
Effective at what?
Air superiority?
Tactical strikes?
Strategic warfare?
Electronic intelligence/information and C&C?
QUASIZM@reddit
I’ve been curious why the paint job on the f16 is partly dark stealth looking grey and light grey
carpe_simian@reddit
Most effective fighter? Maybeeeee. We haven’t really seen enough peer conflicts to make the call.
Most effective combat aircraft? I dunno. The Buff has a pretty strong case.
Most effective aircraft? C-47 hands down. C-130 if we’re only talking currently in use. Fighters win battles. Logistics wins wars.
Prepress_God@reddit
Iron Eagle, have you seen what a highschool kid can do in one of these, all by himself?
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
Apparently I was a little vague in my question 😆
ShutterHawk@reddit (OP)
First to current gen fighters.
OMDB-PiLoT@reddit
No, only the A-10 warthog will do it for me
MeiDay98@reddit
Hear me out: the A-10
banana_hammock6969@reddit
A10 has entered the chat
BuffsBourbon@reddit
F-15 says hi.
LawManActual@reddit
Don’t know, F/A-18E is more versatile and just as effective.
on3day@reddit
Cost effectiveness though..
SirLoremIpsum@reddit
The Rhino was featured in Top Gun. The F-16 hasn't.
Check mate.
Dariaskehl@reddit
Doug Masters’ and Gimme Some Lovin’ intensifies!
Bounceupandown@reddit
It’s a great aircraft. But, there are things it can’t do, like land on an aircraft carrier.
atenne10@reddit
I would say this isn’t even close to “modern” warfare.
Proper_Debt1202@reddit
F-35 fanboys about to lose it
lelekeaap@reddit
Not sure if it is the most effective, but it is surely the most beautiful aircraft!
ViperCancer@reddit
It needs to be broken down further. How do you define effective. I think the F-16 and F-4 would duke it out for most versatile. The F-15 has impressive weapons and a bigger envelope.
But talking to test pilots who flew a variety of planes the viper was the most fun to fly. Flying the viper felt much more akin to Iron Man getting into his suit than getting inside an aircraft.
doubleK8@reddit
quick answer is no, long answer is also no.
Ichthius@reddit
B-52
Foreign-Laugh-8993@reddit
Bob semple with wings, such a mad beast.
sffwriterdude@reddit
The case could be made. Strong track record in several modern conflicts. F15 might be a contender for that title too. I wouldn't rule out the B52 either or the B1 for that matter. Definitely an S-tier multirole fighter!
Conscious-Fact6392@reddit
Jon Boyd has entered the chat
Allobroge-@reddit
Well, modern warfare basicaly consisted in heavily asymmetrical conflicts, so it's hard to say what aircraft is better.
It's not at all like WW2 for examples when you had masses of planes running into each other allowing to draw relevant conclusion.
ThroneOfTaters@reddit
Probably the F-15