Thanks FAA
Posted by sporahdi@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 128 comments
As of 2025, there are no longer any SDF (Simplified Directional Facility) approaches in use, as the last remaining SDF approach at Morristown Regional Airport (KMOR) was permanently decommissioned; meaning there are currently no operational SDF approaches available for pilots to use.
Yet there are still SDF questions on the CFII written… so dumb!
MicroACG@reddit
Frustrating, but I don't blame the FAA. After all, they've been downsized down to the two people that normally scrub the toilets, and they're doing the best they can...
-Petunia@reddit
I see your antiquated equipment question and raise you:
‘You have 69.69 psi in your tire, at what speed will you start hydroplaning?’ (from the ATP)
Or on the IA test there was:
‘Helicopter seats must be manufactured using what type of material? a) Fire retardant b) Fire resistant c) flame retardant’
Like I’m out here manufacturing helicopter seats!
flyingcaveman@reddit
Are they talking about the ground contact pressure or the pressure IN the tire? Of course when your tires are completely flat they generate lift because the air has to go faster over the top of the tire. Fucking Bernoulli!
JJAsond@reddit
Whenever the fuck we start hydroplaning is when we start hydroplaning
-Petunia@reddit
All these nerds trying to rattle off the equation in their replies and /\ this is all I’ve ever thought about it haha
Like.. not going to start including on my approach brief “well, after a bit of algebra, we’ll be out of the risk zone for hydroplaning at 73 kts and can start slamming on the brakes afterwards… that’s ground speed by the way young jeffrey, so please mind that on the roll out”
JJAsond@reddit
All you really need to know is when your airplane will roughly start plaining and keep that number in mind. That's it
willfos@reddit
Rookies... With EASA ATPL we have only the most relevant questions like: "what is the average nasal spray droplet size" and hundreds of potential exam questions regarding the revolutionary microwave landing system and it's operation, I can't wait until I graduate and get to try one!
osher7788@reddit
The hydroplaning question is easy! We got it here in Canada as well. It 9 times square root of the PSI.
Rev-777@reddit
7.7 non-rotating.
Useless information.
EmotioneelKlootzak@reddit
I don't see the problem, it's not like tires ever rotate
Rev-777@reddit
Maybe after a bounce? I don’t have that problem but damn the FOs seem to 😂
Gallaga07@reddit
Not according to the FAA, on the ATP ATM test it is either sqrt(PSI) multiplied by 8.6 or 9 depending on which question it is. Most of them are 8.6 though
theArcticChiller@reddit
It's hilarious that this is different to EASA. We use the other numbers in the posts above. Physics totally changes based on continent
Gallaga07@reddit
I mean the FAA uses both, so physics changes just within the US lol.
thecrazedlog@reddit
At least its basic maths. Over here in Aus sometimes you'll get a diagram which is a copy of a copy of a copy of a fax of a photo of a chalkboard rendering of a whiteboard drawing done with a 1cm wide whiteboard marker.
And the answers for the multiple choice given are 0.0005 difference.
Its like.. mate if its that close to the W&B envelope, I'm booting ol' lardarse here out because if the guy farts its gonna flip the plane.
satans_little_axeman@reddit
well yeah obviously the physics are different here
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
If I can remember correctly… take the sq root of 69.69 (8.348) and multiply that by 8.6 to get 71.7928 kts.
and I’m going with fire resistant! lol
Shep air is paramount when it comes to doing writtens when all the questions have 3 plausible answers 😂
Fourteen_Sticks@reddit
9 times the square root of the tire pressure.
Duh
scarpozzi@reddit
Helicopters are more prone to burrito stand stops, so it's an important safety question. 🌯 🔥
Tattoomyvagina@reddit
😆
BravoCharlieZulu@reddit
This question is from a non-FAA test prep company. What makes you think the test prep company (looks like Sheppard) isn’t just too lazy to remove a question from their test bank that the FAA hasn’t used in years? The FAA doesn’t release their test bank (at least not in the last 20 years) so they have no way on knowing when the FAA sunsets a question. So don’t blame the FAA, blame the test prep company for not effectively preparing you for the test. Everything in the test is straight out of the ACS.
annist0910@reddit
Written test is an absolute scam
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
It is poorly formatted and not well maintained but it does keep us safe and knock out the people who can’t pass it
JJAsond@reddit
You meant anyone who never got shep?
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
I know this subreddit always defaults to shep and it’s an amazing resource, but there are an astounding number if applicants I know who don’t even know it exists.
JJAsond@reddit
Tell them about it. I'm a complete moron and even I found it hard to get under 90% with shep.
constantr0adw0rk@reddit
I feel like it’s sort of a “if you can’t study and pass this you won’t be able to study and pass a checkride”
Cats155@reddit
That is pretty much the gist of it.
ShaemusOdonnelly@reddit
And imho it is supposed to stuff you with so much knowledge that whatever sticks after the exams is enough to keep you safe. You don't need to know everything, but if you remember that there were regulations for a specific thing, that memory causes you to look up the topic whenever it becomes relevant.
constantr0adw0rk@reddit
My only complaint is that the tests are written for airplanes, even the helicopter tests. We’ve got a bunch of stuff in there that’s completely irrelevant to rotor aviation.
TravisJungroth@reddit
Helicopter pilot: “Take us seriously!”
Hot air balloon pilot: “Yeah, take us seriously!”
Helicopter pilot: “I absolutely, and I cannot stress this enough, was not talking about you.”
bidsmack@reddit
I call it a barrier to entry. If you can’t study enough to pass, or at least find a way to pass, you probably aren’t cut out for flying.
But as long as people keep failing, they’re gonna make the test a thing.
brucebrowde@reddit
We care about the opposite, though. It's those who can pass, but cannot fly that are the problem.
Ambitious_Weekend101@reddit
I see it hasn't kept up with all the navigation advances in the cockpit. Or is it flightdeck? I am so confused.
zhelih@reddit
Wait until you see questions on weather products and their symbols and they are no longer in the existence 👀
ApatheticSkyentist@reddit
Wait is, "I just let Foreflight tell me if its a bad day to fly" not a good answer?
MrFulla93@reddit
CFII checkride. DPE had me do a Foreflight approach, simulating complete loss of everything except standby altimeter, airspeed, and TC. Pulled up the plate and followed my lil plane down the ILS feather.
Was fun.
CluelessPilot1971@reddit
CFII checkride. DPE told me not to use a hood. "You already know how to fly, this checkride is about teaching".
Finally a guy who gets it.
ThermiteReaction@reddit
On my CFII ride, the DPE asked me to teach how to fly an approach with the hood off. I started off by explaining how valuable it is to see an approach without the hood, and that the right thing to do was to treat the windscreen as an instrument to see how it cross-referenced to the flight instruments so that you'd trust them in IMC, and then proceeded to explain how the approach course worked by intentionally drifting half a dot off course and correcting back while referencing the sight picture. (I made sure to do the drift very far out where you have lots of time to correct in the wide part of the approach course.)
I agree, my CFII DPE got it, too.
bhalter80@reddit
You can actually read the words on prog charts these days instead of the 11th generation photo copy they used for the written
Gods_Gift_To_ATC@reddit
You mean you don't know how to read a raw winds aloft chart?
bhalter80@reddit
you mean the winds and temps chart? yes I can
Gods_Gift_To_ATC@reddit
My current trainee wouldn't even know what I'm talking about, let alone how to begin reading it lol
DinkleBottoms@reddit
I feel like I’m so out of the loop. That info is still in the ACS and on AWC so why would they not know it?
Gods_Gift_To_ATC@reddit
Because the FAA doesn't teach it. I'd reckon somewhere around of 50% of controllers wouldn't know of its existence, let alone how to read it.
DinkleBottoms@reddit
I should have read your name first lol
monkiesandtool@reddit
refer to figure 25 (the Dallas Bravo)
instantaneous response to the chart
Joshua528@reddit
HIWAS would like to know your location
monkiesandtool@reddit
Or the "why does U.S. airspace use letters" (to simplify airspace)
Without context, it does seem like an odd question, considering that Airspace was reclassified back in 93
PullDoNotRotate@reddit
"Positive Control Area" is a lot more descriptive than "Class A."
CourageAdmirable5776@reddit
Hey i am taking my instrument written pretty soon and using Sheppard air . Is it really just completely route memorization ? Like same numbers and everything on test ???? Thanks
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
Yep completely rote. All numbers are the same
brucebrowde@reddit
I'm interested how those prep companies get the exact questions and answers. Buy from FAA under the table?
f30az@reddit
Until the late 90s, the FAA used to sell books with the entire question bank.
brucebrowde@reddit
They didn't change questions for 20 years? Like at least numbers or something?
CourageAdmirable5776@reddit
Thanks
sjr930@reddit
As a cfii.... this is the first time of hearing about and sdf, no idea what it is... should I be embarrassed?
perfect_fifths@reddit
From what I understand, localizers align with the runway. So the answer is right. And I only know aviation stuff because of my son being into it
NlCKSATAN@reddit
That only like 1% of this question, everyone knows that: SDF is a different type of approach which is similar to a localizer but differs in the ways listed in this question. The thing about it is that when it was used it was basically nonexistent and now apparently the last one in the US is decommissioned.
Only explanation I can give is that our FAA instrument rating is ICAO accepted, and there might still be an SDF somewhere else out there in the world.
brucebrowde@reddit
That's interesting. Do you need to learn various other differences, such as other countries using QHN instead of inHg?
NlCKSATAN@reddit
Can’t remember if stuff like that was on the written or oral (I’d lean towards no), but it’s still all something most people know regardless. I believe it’s all still in our training documentation even if we aren’t tested on it.
Would like to point out though that QNH and inHg are two different things, QNH is the altimeter setting for height above sea level, but inHg is a measurement unit for pressure. QNH might be in inHg or hPa. Side note, QNH is only one of 3 “Q” settings, there’s also QFE and QNE. Russia use QFE so the altimeter reads zero at the airport they’re landing at instead of the field elevation. Kinda dangerous if they forget to set the altimeter.
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
Google says there are no SDF approaches anywhere else in the world
perfect_fifths@reddit
Interesting. Thanks for the insight! Is this part of a Ppl written exam by the DAA or a different test?
NlCKSATAN@reddit
This is for the Instrument Rating and the Instrument Instructor written exams. PPL is more general knowledge like weight and balance, weather, basic aerodynamics, etc. As they say, PPL is a mile wide and an inch deep. IR is an inch wide and a mile deep.
perfect_fifths@reddit
Ooooh I see, thank you
cecilkorik@reddit
You understand the question correctly, but it's not that the answer is wrong or even difficult, it's that the question is outdated and irrelevant.
It's about as relevant as a driver's test asking questions about whether the speed limit on a residential street is faster or slower than the streets of Ancient Atlantis. You can probably correctly guess that it's most likely a lot faster but why the hell is anyone asking questions about the streets of Ancient Atlantis in the first place? This is an unnecessarily confusing question, not something that anyone needs to actually know.
It may seem like a small thing, but many small things add up to a lot of cognitive load wasted on nonsense that could be better spent developing a deeper understanding of fuel systems or air density or something that has a chance of being practically useful.
brucebrowde@reddit
Funny thing how polarized /r/flying is. I'm all in agreement with you, but often I see people asking "why the hell do I need to know X" and then the answers are "you're a macho, anti-authority hobbit that should never be allowed to touch the yoke".
perfect_fifths@reddit
Got it
f30az@reddit
There are no SDF questions on the knowledge test. The problem is you’re using Sheppard Air.
flyingron@reddit
And don't me started about MLS. We crammed all this idiotic stuff on MLS through student's brains. An approach that NEVER EXISTED in the US (and hardly anywhere else) and nobody short of ATPs (who don't need instrument ratings) where ever going to fly.
yellowstone10@reddit
There was one MLS in the United States that saw regular use!
By the Space Shuttle, that is.
MiddleNameMaple@reddit
This is a great fun fact for me to store away for later!
Weekly-Language6763@reddit
In the ATPL exams in EASA land I recently got a question on MLS that didn't exist in my question bank, suggesting that they had recently written and put into circulation a brand new question about MLS...
NlCKSATAN@reddit
There was a check instructor at my 141 that failed someone on their EOC over a question on MLS 🤮
No-Program-5539@reddit
Ooh I bet the check instructor felt like a big strong man that day, maybe his wife let him be on top for once after that
Littleferrhis2@reddit
If it was a DPE I would say that he was looking for a reason to fail the guy. With a 141 check instructor though its more likely he’s just trying to be a smartass.
kennooo__@reddit
Ah yes SDF: syrian democratic forces
brucebrowde@reddit
Acronyms are getting out of hand.
planenut767@reddit
And here I thought it was Louisville KYs airport😆
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
😂😂
OneSea3243@reddit
As a child of the magenta line, let’s get rid of VORs /s
74_Jeep_Cherokee@reddit
Let's go all out and bring back A N Ranges
Fourteen_Sticks@reddit
Screw AN ranges. We need the bonfires on the mail routes.
alexthe5th@reddit
"Alright, let's brief this approach... Captain Jepp says in his book that after you get to the bonfire, you fly down the road until you see the old barn, then turn towards the big oak tree in the distance..."
thrfscowaway8610@reddit
Bring back the loop antenna.
MirSpaceStation@reddit
As a child of VORs, let's bring back ADF!
eSUP80@reddit
Dear lord no lmao
ReadyplayerParzival1@reddit
All the g1000 kiddos love their rmi, that’s basically an ndb but from a vor.
alexthe5th@reddit
RMI's easy mode. The real bullshit is the fixed/movable card ADF needle.
ApatheticSkyentist@reddit
We had loads of fun flying approaches with RMI only back in my G1000 172 days.
My CFII wasn't kidding around, "PULL THE TAIL! PUSH THE HEAD! WHAT ARE YOU DOING!"
BUTTER_MY_NONOHOLE@reddit
But how else am I gonna listen to the ball game?
Bitter-Eagle-4408@reddit
As a child of ADF, let’s bring back LORAN!
MirSpaceStation@reddit
As a child of LORAN, let's bring back those giant white arrows!
tikkamasalachicken@reddit
As a child of white arrows, bring back smoke signals!
MirSpaceStation@reddit
Does a child of smoke signals bring back the way of the gun!
ErmakDimon@reddit
As a child of the former Soviet Union, bring back РСБН!!!
Fourteen_Sticks@reddit
As a child of the ADF, let’s bring back AN ranges.
Ok_Designer7625@reddit
Screw it, bring back the NDB's.
Gallaga07@reddit
Failed card NDB was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life lol
Gods_Gift_To_ATC@reddit
Vectors for everyone!
monkiesandtool@reddit
Vectors for All
Booo
Very well, no vectors for anyone!
Booo
Hmm, vectors for some, resume on navigation for others.
Yehhhh!
Jwylde2@reddit
Nope
KurttGoBang@reddit
KMMU before some student pilot crucifies you for it.
planenut767@reddit
Actually they might be referring to Morristown TN. MMU was my first thought too until I looked up the identifier. https://www.airnav.com/airport/KMOR
KurttGoBang@reddit
Possibly! MMU for sure had an SDF until somewhat recently though. I doubt the other one did. Semantics though really.
DDX1837@reddit
My first actual instrument approach after getting my IR was during a fuel stop on a trip was the SDF into Tullahoma, TN. Broke out just above mins.
Good times.
CarbonGod@reddit
So......something happened 1.5 months ago.....and you expect the FAA to be fast about changing things? PLUS with all the lay offs? Don't expect anything from the FAA in a timely manor.
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
Before removing this SDF, it was the only one for a long time.
dnsm321@reddit
Ok but what if they come back? Always got to be prepared for anything!
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
I won’t be holding my breath lol. Why spend thousands installing localizers at small airports when we have RNAV now 🤷♂️
dnsm321@reddit
I was being sarcastic in the fact that the FAA requires you to know all of this archaic/out of date stuff
Frosty-Brain-2199@reddit
“Somehow SDFs returned”
CreatedByGabe@reddit
Hello? This is OBVIOUSLY useful in case you accidentally make a time machine that takes you back to the 1960's and therefore need to initiate an SDF approach.
teddy5760@reddit
Wait until you hear that in the EASA ATPL materials tgey are still teaching microwave landing systems.
Dense-Brilliant-193@reddit
You have to love that test ... At least you are not in chile .... because they took the faa question bank, translate them badly, so some of them are imposible to understand in Spanish, plus, some others recorded the wrong answers, you eather you know that you have to answer the wrong one or you actually get it wrong lol
bhalter80@reddit
What if you use the license that allows you to fly internationally in a place that has an SDF?
sporahdi@reddit (OP)
Of course the source can’t be completely trusted but google says there are no SDFs outside of the US
Tall_Sherbert7375@reddit
Wait until you see helicopter questions on the ATP multi engine written
CulturalStick3405@reddit
Radio Disney doesn’t even broadcast anymore. I don’t think 🤔
Shark-Force@reddit
I've never heard of an SDF before
PilotEva@reddit
Wtf, ive never heard of an sdf approach but that is what they call homeless people in france 😭
Red-Truck-Steam@reddit
I wonder how many old VOR service range questions are just gonna be left there like this SDF or the antiquated WX chart questions.
eSUP80@reddit
Many. For decades
taxcheat@reddit
Anyone who gets those questions wrong deserves it. The service volumes are on page 46 of the testing supplement.
(Easier and more useful to remember the page number than the actual service volumes.)
Urrolnis@reddit
Are any Terminal VORs going to br part of the MON? Or will they be low/high type only?
RecyclableThrowaways@reddit
In that case I feel lucky I got the opportunity to shoot a SDF approach during my cross country training in Grand Junction.
prex10@reddit
I felt like a solid half of the questions I was asked were NDB related on most of my written from PPL to ATP.
The written is the biggest waste of time in any portion of flight training. No one studies it to learn anything they memorize test banks
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
As of 2025, there are no longer any SDF (Simplified Directional Facility) approaches in use, as the last remaining SDF approach at Morristown Regional Airport (KMOR) was permanently decommissioned; meaning there are currently no operational SDF approaches available for pilots to use.
Yet there are still SDF questions on the CFII written… so dumb!
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