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Louisvanderwright@reddit

That's actually fatty liver disease. They probably all drink too much and are carrying way too much visceral fat as a result. Causes the "dad bod" beer belly look.

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Personal armour in case of shrapnel accidentally finding a completely undetectable stealth airframe, and in case of crash the fat will cushion the impact, should the pilot need to survive, he can carve himself up for additional rations.

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TheCrewChicks@reddit

in case of crash the fat will cushion the impact

"Bumbles bounce . . ."

—Yukon Cornelius

😂

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00owl@reddit

I worked for a carpenter once and we were building a roof on top of a shop.

We were at the point where we were setting the rafters in place and then nailing the 1x4 strapping down to hold everything in place.

Buddy was on a ladder with a three inch spike air nailer driving then into the bottom plate. He missed one but hit enough to trigger the safety and shot himself in the gut.

100% cushy gig for someone with enough experience to keep it cushy.

There was literally a stereotype called the "Beer-bellied Soviet pilot" during the Cold War.

Make me dream. What are some possibilities?

They didn’t. Locking onto an aircraft is an act of war. Had they actually managed to do so, only one of the two machines would have lived to tell the tale.

And given WW3 hasn’t started I call BS

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

Locking on isn't an act of war...

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CBT7commander@reddit

It is, but let’s ignore that.

Gotta a source then? On China locking onto an f-35?

Spoiler, you don’t

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

https://www.flightglobal.com/defence/f-35s-have-encountered-j-20s-over-east-china-sea-usaf-general/147936.article

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He’s "complaining" about the ability of the Chines kill chain to use data link, and at no point is the f-35 mentioned as the target of said kill chain.

Because yes the f-35 isn’t the only plane in the US arsenal.

But let’s ignore that: you were wrong, you claimed there was a lock on and have been unable to provide a source.

Cope and seethe all you want I take this as a word

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thelazyfool@reddit

Where does that say anything about locking on?

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

“The KJ-500 plays a significant role in some of their capability for long range fires,”

“Some of their very long range air-to-air missiles are aided by that KJ-500. Being able to interrupt that kill chain is something that interests me greatly.”

Mirage III is M2 capable.

The Skyhawk is a subsonic attack aircraft. It would be like if you said "cars under 200kph are worthless" and then proceeded to cite a bicycle. Are you trolling?

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

If your car is only marginally faster than a bicycle then it's not winning any races

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ojbvhi@reddit

Man what the fuck are you talking about? The F-35 is significantly faster than the Skyhawk. And its not the fighter jet's job to win races.

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

lol all 3rd gen fighters are supposed to be faster than that, it's a fighter jets job to win fights, which greater speeds help you do. That's why supercruise was a requirement for the first 5th Gen fighter.

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ojbvhi@reddit

lol all 3rd gen fighters are supposed to be faster than that, it's a fighter jets job to win fights, which greater speeds help you do

Complete bullshit. I've given you plenty of time to produce an example or an official study that proves M2 capability makes or breaks a fighter and you've yet to do so. Hell just give me a fucking example of a fighter jet, any fighter jet with combat load routinely and primarily operating above M1.6. An empty slick F-15 doing M2.4 doesn't mean jack.

All you've done so far is troll, giving a bs example and failing to elaborate on literally anything.

That's why supercruise was a requirement for the first 5th Gen fighter.

So? Requirements change, nevermind the fact that the F-22 and F-35 are different instruments for different jobs.

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

lol ok, the F-22. Primarily operating at mach speed is called supercruise and only 5th generation fighters can do it...

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ojbvhi@reddit

The F-22 has a grand total combat record of 1 weather balloon.

You don't have a shred of proof that it primarily operates above M1.6 (supercruise capability != proof), nor you have proof for any other claim you've made, and the fact that the F-22, the most world's most advanced air superiority fighter, is the supposed single example, helps the F-35's case, it doesn't hurt it.

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

M1.6 isn't part of any definition, the definition is supersonic speed without using afterburners, and it was a requirement guy the ATF program.

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ojbvhi@reddit

Hell just give me a fucking example of a fighter jet, any fighter jet with combat load routinely and primarily operating above M1.6. An empty slick F-15 doing M2.4 doesn't mean jack.

Are you able to read, like at all? I asked this question and you supposedly gave the F-22 as an answer.

I did not fucking ask for the definition of supercruise, which you got wrong. Being able to fly without afterburners above mach has nothing to do with whether the F-22 actually does primarily operate above M1.6 in a combat scenario. And seeing as F-22's sole combat kill is a weather balloon, you would have zero information regarding that.

Is this grade school breakdown simple enough for you to comprehend? You're a fucking troll.

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ojbvhi@reddit

The F-22 cannot supercruise at M1.6 you are so genuinely full of horse manure.

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Codyqq@reddit

You mean the MIG-21 that was getting shot down by the F-4 in Vietnam?

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

Yes.

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SugarBeefs@reddit

Outright top speed isn't the be-all and end-all of military aviation anymore, it hasn't been for a long time.

Besides, none of the fancy features matter if the aircraft is vaporware that cannot be built in relevant numbers.

Even if we hypothesize that the Su-57 is the best jet fighter in existence, what does that matter if you have like...11 of them? Good luck with that.

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

Outright top speed isn't the be-all and end-all of military aviation anymore, it hasn't been for a long time

Maybe if you only fight guys wearing flip flops, fancy features and wunderwaffe don't matter then either.

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SugarBeefs@reddit

Fighter aircraft haven't gotten much faster (if at all) compared to the 60s.

F-4 Phantom would do Mach 2.2. That's faster than the claimed top speed of the F-16. I guess the old Phantom is better then?

The Delta Dart could do Mach 2.3 and that thing was introduced in the 1959.

The F-18 Hornet came into service in the early 80s ('83?) and it will top out at Mach 1.8 or so. It's replacement, the Super Hornet, will only get up to 1.6 apparently.

Good

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flourblue@reddit

Probably wondering why it can't supercruise, or go mach 2.

Hermitcraft7@reddit

Yes. But. The cost of the Su-57 program is probably somewhere in the range of $10 - $15 Billion. The cost of the F-35 program is $1.7 Trillion. Yeah they're pretty different numbers right? Essentially, pretty much all the Russian aircraft development companies got reduced HARD in the 90s. Now they have way less experience than Lockheed Martin and they're obviously doing much worse financially. And let's be completely fair.

While yes, the Su-57 has its flaws, we still don't actually know pretty much anything valuable. The RCS is really REALLY under question because it received new engines and all the sources say different stuff. Obviously the RCS is still worse than the F-35, but this is the second stealth plane Russia has built (pretty much). The whole "it's the size of a city block" argument is also ironic considering the B-2 and B-21. And all of this while on a budget literally 100 times less. It's still a really good aircraft. It has good speed, maneuverability, not bad RCS and (while not an important statistic) it looks really damn nice. That we can agree on, I hope.

As much as we can parrot the hate mail this thing gets, It's still a good aircraft, and we are all inherently biased for or against it.

(Also, original commenter, I'm not necessarily addressing this to you. This is kinda just a general post to see others opinions.)

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Roflkopt3r@reddit

The cost of the Su-57 program is probably somewhere in the range of $10 - $15 Billion. The cost of the F-35 program is $1.7 Trillion.

Figures like this are difficult to compare because they're very context sensitive.

$1.7 trillion is an estimate that includes absolutely everything. Development, procurement, and full cost of service including maintenance, upgrades, and even fuel.

The claims for the SU-57 in contrast a vague and likely only included a part of research and development, since for example spending on other programs that ended contributing to the SU-57 likely was not included. The program hasn't even made the investment to enable actual mass production, instead running on an artisinal scale of a few airframes per year.

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Hermitcraft7@reddit

Alright so basically everything you said sums to "we don't know enough". I'm not even like trying to start beef or anything, we literally just don't know enough. Again, to me it is obvious that Lockheed Martin spent a lot more on the F-35 program, but we just don't know how much. About the B-2, I meant that people have no problem with it, but with the Su-57 it makes it bad because it reduces stealth. Meanwhile one of the stealthiest aircraft ever is a large bomber.

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Roflkopt3r@reddit

Again, to me it is obvious that Lockheed Martin spent a lot more on the F-35 program, but we just don't know how much

The F-35 program has measurable successes in its production volume and number of export partners. It has proven that it can be produced and operated in great numbers and is an extremely popular choice amongst air forces.

We don't know how much the SU-57 realistically cost, but we can tell that it has still not managed to produce a significant number of aircraft and that there is very little experience with actual operations.

About the B-2, I meant that people have no problem with it, but with the Su-57 it makes it bad because it reduces stealth. Meanwhile one of the stealthiest aircraft ever is a large bomber.

Flying-wing stealth bombers operate on different principles than fighters. The lack of tail surfaces greatly reduces their maneuverability, but enables 'true stealth' rather than the 'low observability' of 'stealth fighters'.

Stealth fighters like F-35 can be detected by long wave length search radars (although not as easily and as far as conventional fighters), but are difficult to target with more precise targeting radars. While true stealth bombers are also difficult to detect.

In practice, low-observable fighters operate with anti-radiation missiles like HARM that automatically seek out enemy radars. This means that the enemy has to limit their use of radars substantially and will have no advanced warning against sufficiently stealthy aircraft, since there is no radar that can provide warning without being in the danger zone itself. HypOps have done an excellent video on how the stealth of F-35 specifically works against heavy air defenses like S-400.

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Hermitcraft7@reddit

So basically on your first point you yet again parroted what you said at first. Clearly, as a nation with basically no stealth experience, which started their project 7 years later, and has most likely a fraction the budget of the F-35 program, they have achieved relative success. You keep ignoring this, it seems, but the reason why the Su-57 isn't being produced at the rate that would match the F-35 is due to Sukhoi not being able to afford to do so. Lockheed Martin as a company has a far bigger net worth and has experience building Stealth Aircraft while for Sukhoi it's a first.

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Hydr0genMC@reddit

I think the issue comes down to two things.

It's not as capable as contemporaries like the F-22 (coming up on 30 years old), the F-35, and even the Chinese stealth aircraft.

Secondly, you can nearly count the amount of Su-57s with your hands (if you exclude prototypes).

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Hermitcraft7@reddit

1) I disagree. Especially with the last statement. While yes the RCS and stealth is worse, I think it comes down a lot to missiles used. Long range fights are more on missiles and radar imo.

Notice how they’ll never answer to well thorough responses, because they know they can’t.

Just like how the first guy made an edit but refused to answer to the people proving him wrong

Clowns, all of them

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CBT7commander@reddit

The f-35 has a lower crash rate than the f-18 or f-16. What exactly says bad quality control?

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Cessnaporsche01@reddit

As someone who's handled the 120 page long routers for manufacturing the most basic F-35 parts, yeah, they have quality control. Do Lockmart's engineers know how to properly apply GD&T? No! (Although they're worlds better than Boeing) But that just means everything gets double verified, before it's checked dozens of times over.

And I know it's the same story going up the supply chain. There's definitely plenty of jank built into the processes, but there are so many checks and verifications and certifications

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porn0f1sh@reddit

🤡

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GroundbreakingSet405@reddit

Actually easy to answer. The F-35 is multinationals effort, Su-57 is domestic only.

Agreeable_Theme_8025@reddit

Lol go on wikipedia and check it for yourself. Go on military forums. It's not secret stuff. I have no idea what video you are talking about.

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Flagon15@reddit

Ah yes, wikipedia, the mother of all sources, lol.

It's funny that not even you checked it, because it clearly says the Armata engine was based on an earlier Soviet tank engine, not a German one or a pump engine.

And for the T-90, anyone who knows anything about tanks can tell you that there's literally no parts commonality between the V-2 and V-92 engines. I mean it should be pretty obvious that you can't just double the output of an engine like that.

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VRichardsen@reddit

According to that theory, not the Tiger tank engine. It was planned replacement for the engine of the Tiger II, and never made it anywhere.

That being said, the story is has been disputed.

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ProjectNo864@reddit

US spends more than any country on military, more than next several centuries combined. While US citizens don’t get any higher education, healthcare, tons of poverty in every city.

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CBT7commander@reddit

While Us citizens don’t get any higher education, healthcare, tons of poverty

The U.S. has a higher level of higher education than any other country in the world. The U.S. has a lower poverty rate than China or Russia. The U.S. has better healthcare than Russia, and is only slightly behind China.

Thought terminating clichées with little data behind them

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ProjectNo864@reddit

Where are your sources? Here are mine:

2023 Russia poverty 9.3 vs US 13% https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poverty-level-russia-dropped-93-2023-says-statistics-service-2024-03-06/

Holding a Degree: 50% Russian, 37% Americans https://www.dickinson.edu/info/20030/russian/271/russian_higher_education#:~:text=More%20than%2050%25%20of%20Russians,friends%20outside%20of%20campus%20life.

Don’t get me started on Americas scam of health and insurance. Though both countries have each problems, US is not something perfect like some claim

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CBT7commander@reddit

Your source for poverty rate is the Russian government itself.

Also, the poverty line in the US and Russia are not the same. Important thing you should mention

As for my source it’s the world bank, that disagrees with the figures you provide. I dunno but the world bank seems more reliable than the Russian government.

Poverty rate is a clusterfuck, but when looking at available income for instance, the US has 10 times the average of Russia, with cost of living differing only by a factor of 2-3.

The U.S. is in fact number one in higher education, because most of the top rated universities of the Shanghai rating are in the US, with 8 of the top 10 being American.

The U.S. also has one of the highest student immigration rates in the world.

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AutoModerator@reddit

Your post/comment has been automatically removed due to user reports. If you feel the removal was in error contact the mod team. Repeated removal for rule violation will result in a ban.

Prefer the USA for higher education?? Have you read the news in the last few years? The USA is absolutely chock full of college grads who can't get degrees because they paid $80k++ for a useless degree

At least in Europe if you pick a degree that isn't lucrative you won't be in debt.

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integer_32@reddit

Quite the same in Russia, but US at least builds thousands of cool planes like F-35, not 5 pcs of "wanna-be-5th-gen" su-57.

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arup02@reddit

but US at least builds thousands of cool planes

towell420@reddit

Truer words never said. Fuck political divides.

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claws76@reddit

From what we saw- both crews respected each other and the bands even played music that they mutually danced to. Lot of professional respect and support between the two forces. Heard of a US pilot who drove 14 hrs to reach home and grab a camera so he could snap a pic of the SU. The Russian pilot gave the American crew a salute as he taxied back. Both seemed excited to see the others. Orders aside, you could see the avaiation in them mutually resonate.

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Skilodracus@reddit

Agreed. While there may or may not be nefarious intent in taking those photos, I have no doubt that they're nerding out about getting a chance to see a foreign jet up close.

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coltonmusic15@reddit

Yeah I was surprised it took me this far down the thread to find any mention of this being a counter intelligence nightmare. They fly at insane speeds to get video/footage of these bad boys… I’m sure they love the allowance of being able to take this footage and I wonder why it’s being allowed.

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Flagon15@reddit

Who's gonna stop them? They're in India, the Americans have no power there.

F35 sucks as a fighter jet, that's what the F22 does.

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getting_serious@reddit

I mean, beyond all the political banter and all the hurr durr fifth gen murica vs fourth gen show-off wannabe blah blah blah ...

Wouldn't you?

^Wouldn't ^you?

Over_Intention8059@reddit

Well it's earned nicknames like "fat Amy" and "battle penguin" so there's that lol

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eidetic@reddit

F-35 A and Bs look good from most angles to me, but there's a few angles that are less than flattering.

The C though looks like an ungainly teen going through an awkward growth spurt with those bigger wings though.

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Powered-by-Din@reddit

I see lots of people on reddit saying how cool nato grey looks, but I've never understood the love for it. Russian camo looks infinitely better imo

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SU37Yellow@reddit

The NATO Grey actually does something though. It's radar absorbant so it makes the plane harder to detect. Granted, it won't turn an F-18 into a stealth fighter, but it's not insignificant either.

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Flagon15@reddit

No, that's just the color deemed to be the best at blending in with the environment both in clear skies, clouds, with the ground, etc.

RAM paint is used only on small parts like panel edges, screws, etc, and can be any color you want.

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Indeed

I actually don't find the Su-57 that attractive. It looks like a dopey fat guy that's been smooshed living under high gravity or something. It's just so wide and flat, like a pancake or something, and so the proportions just seem so weird.

The Flanker family however is pure sexiness.

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VoidOmatic@reddit

Oh it's performance numbers are DEFINITELY fudged. Putin made them expressly for selling to other countries he thought were never going to use them. Just another scheme to put money in his pocket.

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Express_Fail3036@reddit

Top of all that, do people think there's some photographically attainable secrets being lost here? Like we just whoopsied it and forgot to put up the "no photographs, please" sign, and now our air defense is more vulnerable? Dudes modding War Thunder is a bigger threat than some Rooskies taking pictures.

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I_Hate_Philly@reddit

Russian soldiers KNOW that western/US shit is awesome. Might be less accurate now that all of the professional soldiers who have seen western aircraft and tanks up close are dead. Russian patrols in Syria would end up running into our patrols and shooting the shit.

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eidetic@reddit

Russian patrols in Syria would end up running into our patrols and shooting the shit.

Or they'd set up and head out to attack an American position, and get absolutely shot to shit.

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I_Hate_Philly@reddit

When you summon a B52, you know you’ve made some choices.

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ssersergio@reddit

Just extrapolate, don't think the war, or the countries. You are sitting on one of the most unique machines created by the humans, a thing most of us dream to be able to fly or see. And you see in front of you another one in a million creations.

I'm taking all the photos I can, damnit, I would love to greet the other pilot and talk about the planes freely!

Tangentially related to this:

https://youtu.be/gcpavKRnvus?feature=shared

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Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit

One on my father's favorite stories is about hearing Hannah Reitsch talk (at SETP) about flight testing German ww2 rocket planes. Pilots are pilots.

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BisonAmbitious9127@reddit

When I was allowed to see some F-35s they took away our phones so we couldn't take photos

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BoggyTheFroggy@reddit

As someone with genuine professional and personal interest in aviation, it sucks that simping after these planes makes you look like an American imperialist and bloodthirsty because they're weapons of war.

There's no ground or sea based equivalent. These are the supercars of the sky, the technological peak of what we're aware humans can put in the sky. The fact that some of these aircraft have a positive thrust to weight ratio is mind numbing. They are truly incredible machines.

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St-JohnMosesBrowning@reddit

Well said.

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Spork_the_dork@reddit

Also it's an airshow. Showing off the planes and letting people take pictures of them is the whole goddamn point. If US military didn't want Russians to take pictures of their F-35s then they wouldn't have taken the plane to a damn airshow.

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getting_serious@reddit

If espionage really looked like this then I'd be thoroughly amused, and relieved.

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FtDetrickVirus@reddit

all the hurr durr fifth gen murica vs fourth gen show-off wannabe

Llamaman117@reddit

When we had F-35s on our carrier we were told multiple times not to take pictures of them because even the profile of them is classified, every picture you have seen of them have been modified, so I'm guessing that the one they brought out there was also modified because they knew the Ruskies were going to be taking pictures of them no matter what they try.

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cecilkorik@reddit

It's all fun and games until somebody bombs a children's hospital. Let them have it? No. It's not fun and games anymore.

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Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

Exactly.

In Abbotsford in the late 80s and early 90s getting our first views of Soviet tech we were drooling over their planes.

Did they look rough? Yes. Do all military planes look rough? Yes.

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Travel-Barry@reddit

That's what I thought. Sure, their government are cunts. But planes are cool, and if you work in the industry and came across the Lamborghini of planes, you'd want to check it out.

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LiveShowOneNightOnly@reddit

How long before those photos are being passed around in the Kremlin? 20 minutes? 30?

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FixergirlAK@reddit

This is my take. I have met aviators from all over the world and they tend to be all very similar. They love aircraft and are super stoked to one - show off their own and two - meet a bunch of new ones. (Shout out to the RAF Harrier pilot who absolutely stole my heart when I was 17.)

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Notonfoodstamps@reddit

Definitely.

Gabriel_Satori@reddit

Born as rivals, meet as brothers.

The entire 5th gen is so weird.

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Unusual-Economist288@reddit

Russian crew looks like a senior bowling league

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Hermitcraft7@reddit

Y'all will find excuses to shit on anyone.

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SyrioForel@reddit

I looked into it, and it appears that the Russian armed forces do not enforce physical fitness requirements for officers.

Look at that absolute fucking SPECIMEN chilling on the canopy rail.

Looks like the cat-calling construction guy from Futurama. He’s about to give a wolf whistle. “Hey there F-35, how you doin’?”

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

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Apparently people with high blood pressure tend to handle G forces better.

huberttmedia@reddit

Being stealth is not useless. Good luck getting a solid lock on a bird moving at 600mph+. This is why the F-117 only got hit when it had a right angle from a broken bomb bay door.

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brandon7219@reddit

Air Force is two words

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DrVinylScratch@reddit

I take a picture of any military plane that comes by my home. Hell I've even gotten to touch and feel an F-35. And I'm just some civvie plane nerd.

Backspkek@reddit

It's the closest they'll ever get to an actual stealth fighter.

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snowmunkey@reddit

If I was a su57 pilot I would not want to get within 50nm of the f35

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J-Imma-CR@reddit

Do rudders on su 57 go up and down?

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claws76@reddit

Oh it’s Aatish Pillai. Heard a lot about the fella.

AutoModerator@reddit

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments will create a permanent ban.

Completely different, they don't have anything to do with engine intake airflow control like the F-15.

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Political comments will create a permanent ban.

TheOzarkWizard@reddit

"How do they make the screws look so good? It's almost like they're not even there!"

russian crew, probably

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ProjectNo864@reddit

The Su used in show is the prototype plane

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vote100binary@reddit

Comrade, your English sounds better if you include all the proper articles.

The Su used in the show is the prototype plane

Jokes on them. You can’t photograph a stealth plane.

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Linyuxia@reddit

I’m guessing thats one of the T-series prototypes since russia doesn’t have enough production aircraft to go around but why is it missing vertical stabs.

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silencecalls@reddit

It isn’t. The one on the left is just turned to face the camera. And the other one is out of shot.

Opsec!

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stmiba@reddit

"We we're inverted"

Lieutenant Peter "Maverick" Mitchell

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I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

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