This gig is ball busting. But don’t worry, I know you have heard this 1000 times but it’s true so I’ll say it again. “Things change overnight!”. Lucky for you it sounds like you are young with no responsibilities. Try and stay sharp, don’t stop studying, get in a a desktop sim and shoot approaches. Rent a plane once a month. Before you know it you’ll be writing a giant alimony check from the left seat of a widebody.
So, Canadian here. Things aren’t identical here but there’s a few things I noticed. The norms would likely be the same. I was a CFI for several years, managed a flight school and a number of small charter airlines, and was a Chief Pilot for 6 years. So I did a fair amount of hiring.
I’m reading your post and thinking “god I hope they didn’t put that on a resume…”
I’m referring to the P51. Cool experience and I’d put it in my logbook for posterity sake, but definitely leave it off the resume because it’s not relevant to work experience. I wouldn’t list any type on a resume that you weren’t legally capable of doing revenue flying on.
Also, the 5/6 pass rate is something you could leave off as well. What do you call a Dr who graduated dead last in their class? Doctor! The exams snd flight test scores are irrelevant. You passed. You’re a pilot. That’s all that matters.
The other thing… your post is called “I give up”… this is never something that a pilot should utter, and it maybe points towards an issue in general attitude. You can never give up. No matter how shitty it gets, don’t give up. I started my flying career 7 months after 9/11. The market was depressing to say the least. It was as bad as the job market had been from the late 80’s until now I believe. Lots of people in my class didn’t get behind the controls for 3 years but most of us pressed on. In person, personalized searching was what seemed to be most successful. I can tell you from the hiring side, that someone who shows up, knows every airplane the company flies, what type of work they do, and where their bases are go to the top of the pile. The resumes I got which said “To whom it may concern. I’m applying for a first officer position on your cessna 206” went in the garbage. If you can be bothered to figure out who the CFI/CP is at a small company, if you don’t understand that a single pilot VFR operation wouldn’t employ a first officer on a 206, then why would I hire you?
Anyways enough of the diatribe… you obviously have allot of time and money invested in this thing to just give up… keep at er! Personalize your approach and keep at it.
Also, don’t discount HI and AK just because the cost of living is high. You might love it there. And you can take a small hit now if it gets you into the higher paying jobs sooner. A small financial burden now might make for a huge payoff many years earlier.
Yeah, I’ve been hearing that. Im still going to pursue it. Im from the US, but I currently live in Montreal. Wherever I go, I know it will take me a while..I just hope the industry has more opportunities when that time comes.
Hey! I can help you out at Skill Aviation at KUGN. I’m a flight instructor there and could give you a tour, show you our planes and answer any questions you have. More than happy to help you and I could definitely make room in my schedule. We have C152s, C172s, DA20s, DA40, G1000 and a multi.
Depending on your budget and how far north you are in IL.
Illinois aviation academy. They fly out of KDPA in West chicago by Carol Stream.
Or check with Golden Wings in waukegan. They are the cheapest and have 2022 planes. They fly out of KUGN.
Thank you!! I'm out in a rockford and looked into the two schools at JVL but was told to avoid them. IAA is a little pricey but I'll definitely check out Golden Wings. I appreciate that!
Avoid Elevation at all costs. Have my own experiences combined with experiences of countless different mediums of interactions there (students prospective students employees witnesses etc) - the guy who runs the place is kinda scarily certifiable.
I heard they were losing their 141 certification so I was avoiding it (even though i'm part 61 - I was just told A LOT of their students fail their check rides.. Don't know how true it is, I was just warned). Plus, they're very costly. I'd rather pay IAA rather than them. But Poplar grove seems pretty appealing. I'm gonna call again in the morning and hopefully I can get ahold of someone
I actually just reached out to the office a few hours ago ago! They were closed so I sent Tina an email. They're about a 15 min drive from me currently so that would be ideal if they have room for me.
Bessie's diner in JVL. I used to fly there all the time for breakfast.
I'm not a big fan of the chief pilot of IAA. Tough guy that scolds CFIs in front of customers. Also pricey.
Guys name at Golden Wings is dragan. He's the only one I flew with then. He's the owner. I had very good flight experience with the guy.
Same! Everytime I go in to my work, (mind you our schedule gets posted the night before) I get told they don’t have a plane for me and I end up having driven 40 minutes for nothing. Last month I averaged maybe 20 hours, and we are hourly so I get double screwed 🫠
That's tough dude and I'm sorry to hear that. The industry is so tough right now and even entry-level CFI jobs are impossible. I've had to resort to working part-time as a ramp agent to pay the bills while I wait for a class. Granted I know I'm lucky because I got hired by an airline (been waiting for a class since last March). Hiring will pick up Q3-Q4 this year (not by much) but hopefully, it will be enough to get things slightly moving again.
Chin up and keep searching. Don't abandon the dream...
F9? I know a few of people they’ve been stringing out for class dates. Wonder if it’ll pay off or they just keep pushing out class dates and taking off the street hires that are super qualified.
Don't read the F9 Cadet reddit. Things don't sound too promising over there. Hope it works out for all in that program but would hope that those there have realistic expectations.
November. The wait for the interview was very fast, 2 weeks, I have a feeling they handed out CJOs like candy anticipating something and it hasn’t panned out
If it's anything like my fc it's nearly impossible to get hired as a CFI if you didn't work on the ramp or dispatch for them previously right now. Atleast those are the accounts I've heard.
At times, yes. There were times where not even CFI jobs were available and the jobs that were available went to laid off airline guys with thousands of hours and real world experience.
It's starting to be like this now. I've reached out to two other places nearby to see if I could find more consistent work. They both told me they don't have the demand for another CFI right now
If you don’t have a degree, 0 failures, and thousands of TPIC+Recs from current captains you aren’t getting into a major today.
The hiring wave is over, but the puppy mills keep flooding the system. Within a couple years people will start dropping out and this will become the new “CS Degree” equivalent.
Wow! That is the last thing I thought I’d hear about aviation. I’m going through the process of getting my medical now. Going into this as a career 2.0. My field is adjacent to CS, and I know plenty of qualified people out of work. I’ve never heard anyone say that would be the same fate as aviation.
There is already a steady supply of favored prior MIL candidates, and then the media has propagandized a massive “need” upcoming with the retirement of boomer pilots.
In short, more ATPs have been handed out in the last 3 years than at any point in history. All while the explosion of jobs after Covid has dried up. If you rode the wave you are on lucky bastard. Otherwise it’s unlikely you may ever be paid to fly.
SkyWest just reported its highest profit margins in quite a while I’ve heard. It sounds most airlines like are going to pick up hiring again relatively soon
This is irrelevant to being a CFI but do you have a degree? Even the cfi job market, that might set you apart. I know my Alma mater won’t hire anyone without a degree. They used to hire external (not anymore since the slowdown) but a degree was always required.
Could be a good time to take a step back and focus on finishing that up if you haven’t yet. Non aviation related degree of course.
I’m just getting into this field. When you say, “they won’t hire anyone without a degree”, does the degree have to be specific to aviation, or any degree (just to know that you went to college)?
My goal is to become a CFI, and move up later on if possible. I taught 3D animation at a university for almost 10yrs. I have plenty of teaching experience, and I’d figure that I’d be good for teaching folks how to fly.
Right on lol. The solace I'm taking in this is I heard we are getting priority for classes. I know a few people who had the June 6th went off to other places so fingers crossed.
I steer everyone away from this career. I’m at a major US carrier and we are expecting upgrades to go from what used to be one year back in 2021/2022 to 10-15 years in the next 12 months or so. Be a doctor, lawyer, plumber, electrician. They all make great money too and fly for fun.
None of those professions pay as much as much as major airlines pay their pilots. Except maybe medical specialists like surgeons, oncologists, etc. Not even regular doctors.
There is no guarantee you will get here to a legacy carrier though. American, Delta and United have all slowed hiring down tremendously. Also, staying at home and making 400k as a doctor of any type vs 600k as a captain is very nice. You sleep in your tempurpedic system every night, get to have a home cooked meal that is very cheap to make and very healthy and a ton of other benefits. A base attorney has to make what? 250k after 6 years? A base general practitioner makes probably the same thing. Shit, if I could do it all again I’d have continued med school instead of being an airline pilot. 🤦🏽♂️
Just like what a pilot makes on his first year isn’t 250k. I know that you aren’t going to make a ton of money at the start but if I’m not mistaken a public defender makes around 110,000 around here. That’s not bad. Your first job will probably make you 75k and it only goes up from there. There isn’t a starting pilot job that makes that.
Personally, I don’t care too much about the exact company I will fly for. I just want to get paid good money to fly a jet. Maybe my perspective will change when I get to the airlines, but I don’t know. I think whether or not one should be a pilot depends a lot on the lifestyle one wants, not just the money. I feel like I personally would get bored with a traditional 9-5 at the office kinda job. Flying for an airline, you fly new passengers every day, to new cities, even different countries. It’s a very dynamic profession. I actually like the idea of being in a new city all the time, in a hotel. Again, maybe this perspective will change when I get to the airlines, but who knows? In terms of lawyer pay, I could be wrong, but from what I’ve read, the pay is only very high for those who go to the big name law schools. Those who own their own practice or work for big law, can make big bucks though.
1700tt still cfi’ing with no class date in sight so partially to blame for cfi’s not leaving and new cfi’s not being able to be hired but I have to keep flying and stay current. You can have 3000tt but if you havent flown atleast a couple hundred hours in the past year, you’re even more cooked than an active cfi near atp mins. Industry is cyclical you’ll get on somewhere and have a different hurdle to complain about in 1000 hours trust me bro just enjoy the ride lol
very interesting how different the flight instructor situation is up North in Canada. Most schools have a 6 month wait list in the Vancouver area and all the instructors get poached by airlines immediately at certain thresholds
I’m from Van and it’s the same at my flight school. We’ve got a 6 month + waitlist, my schools begging for instructors lol so this post is so interesting to read. Maybe here we have more of a shortage
also showing this post to my flight schools owner. They said there is a chance you aren’t getting picked up because you are over qualified. flight schools want to milk their instructors for all 1500 hours they can because you leaving would be inevitable.
if you want a decent flying gig for a lot of hours look here in Yellowknife
This is really strange. I decided to get my PPL a couple months ago and in doing research I read an article in an online business journal (don't remember which one, sorry) that said there is a massive shortage of licensed pilots right now. At least in the US.
Now most people here say it's impossible to find a job. Yikes! It reminds me of my current field. I know several people looking for IT jobs who NEVER get call backs but all I ever hear from companies is "we can't find any applicants" when I've given them 2 or 3 people who already applied.
Same, every airline pilot I speak to says now is the best time to be in flight training because of the pilot shortage. But then I read posts like this and am so confused 😭 I’m in Canada and I’ve read similar articles too, hell idk what my future will look like lol
It’s a lie made up by flight schools to impose a sense of urgency into you- make you feel like if you don’t start now that you’ll miss out, which usually makes you think- oh I should get a loan this flying stuff is such a booming industry… DON’T DO IT!!!! DO NOT! I have no other advice. I took out a loan and the stress and inflexibility that comes with knowing I’ll have to pay a mortgage level payment in 2 years because of my debt for flight training is terrible. Save up the money- go cash. Live off of rice and beans, rent a cardboard box, get a decent paying job- and SAVE SAVE SAVE!!!!!
If you can bring yourself to do so, try applying at some of the flight schools in Alaska. There are a good number of schools in the Anchorage and Palmer area that might take an interest in you, especially with your hours and a CFII rating. Best of luck!
So true! If you go during the warm season, you could camp nearby. Or if during cold season, it might be cheaper due to less tourism. You could also try applying corporate side— I know a few that hire before you get their recommended hours
Keep going/keep applying. Fly enough to stay current and pass an interview but not much more than that. There are so many retirements still on the books. My airline plans to resume hiring end of summer permitting scheduled airframe deliveries. It may never be like it was the last few years, but hiring will resume. Movement will come back and you sound like a well qualified CFI.
Don't give up buddy, delay is not denial. I've been through similar setbacks but if one thing is certain about this industry, it's that this industry is uncertain. Times like this are always hard, but they are always right before the next hiring boom
Aviation is so flooded right now. Absolutely no pilot shortage. We pumped out so many damn inexperienced pilots we don’t know what to do with them. If you are trying to get into the industry come back when it flips.
This might be a silly question but do you have to be associated with a school? Can you work with an independent instructor? Not that that would be easier, per se, but possibly widens the net
Did my private there. Those dudes get worked hard. 6 days a week min. But my instructor was wonderful and got all his hours in a year and three months. He out now.
Go independent. Make facebook posts to find students and instruct out of flight club airplanes. It’s way better than working at a flight school anyways. 99% of flight schools suck ass and are going to treat you and your student like shit
Dude that's because you're looking in the wrong places, whomever told you CFI was the only way to build hours lied, plenty of 135 companies are always looking for pilots. Dunno how far you'd want to move but here's one in the Mariana islands, cost of living there isn't TOO bad. This isn't a great example but you get the point. I'd say, in my opinion, forget the MEI and get your CPL, you have the hours required, and I don't see any mention of instrument rating but there's no way you DON'T have that so yeah .https://www.indeed.com/q-part-135-pilot-jobs.html?vjk=b92d7d32899d59b1&mna=&aceid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAk8G9BhA0EiwAOQxmfk0h5-uIdqUdj6NiSpa1MTMgdX3LKQaDs1EHksq-mLPDQnl1tn6KaBoCoPkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
There's a lot more opportunities I see here in the US, you'll just have to look and see which one applies to your experience and certifications
Keep your head up bro, hell at least you got your medical. Try having that ripped away from you. Now I’m working on my A&P and might just grab my dispatcher license for the hell of it. Try Beverly Flight Center in the north shore area of Massachusetts. But please don’t give it up. I wish i could have my CFI. Keep pushing forward
If you're looking to build time and not opposed to long hours and traveling, look into ag spraying. Most places have you run a mix truck for a season or two but once you're in, it's possible to make damn near what an airline captain makes. Plus it's seasonal so you typically get 4-5 months off straight.
I've been where you're at. Applied to nearly 100 flight schools just trying to find that time builder. I got lucky as an ag company reached out to my local airport looking for a pilot. It took about 4 years to go from loader to full time ag pilot making nearly $300,000 a season. Its not uncommon for some of these guys to make 400,000+ but it is definitely work.
The industry may not be so great right now, but there are options, don't give up! I'm sure you will land something!
Honestly, try to get on at a college flight school. I go to Oklahoma State and we have a major instructor shortage at all times. They hire students as soon as they get their CFI (part of our course), but it’s not enough to suite the ever growing pool of students so they are almost always looking to hire CFIs from outside the program. Idk how other universities are, but I feel like they’re probably in the same boat.
On top of that, you’ll probably get multiple students on a fixed schedule so you don’t have to worry as much about students flaking out.
After 9/11 I was in the same situation as you. I decided to apply for an active duty Air Force pilot slot. 20 years later I have a pension and a job at a majors. Another option guard/reserve.
Find a good sized flying club near you, join it, hang out there as much as you can. Do discovery flights, build up a client base, br and independent contractor and keep all the money you earn instead of giving 2/3 of it to a flight school.
I tell everyone who will listen to have a backup in case aviation doesn’t work out. This is my second career, I still do my old job part time and can jump into a full time role if needed. Makes it much easier to ride the waves. Find something to pay the bills and keep searching; you’ll get something eventually.
SoCal… plus one flyer club is always open to instructors. You’ll fly as much or as little as you want. I flew in socal and souther AZ. Made $75 per hour and made it to the airlines in 18 months
This industry has always been cyclical. I’ve always got my jobs by actually walking in and introducing myself. When I was a Chief pilot for a 135 operator I got tons of resumes, but preferred to hire people who actually came in to introduce themselves. Your time will come, don’t give up. Maybe consider going to Alaska and flying 135. Caribbean and Guam also have cool 135 operators.
Then don’t work at a major city! There are plenty of people in small towns in AZ that don’t want to travel to Phoenix to learn. Just invest in your own plane and talk to folks in smaller cities/towns
Probably mentioned: go Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Navy, Marines. Do same for every country on the Earth. Or not.
Buy a plane, advertise lessons. Maybe not doable due to lawyer scum viz. insurance rates. The lowlifes have destroyed much activity.
It took me 3 years to get a CFI job, then i had to work for another 5 and then i got to the airlines with 5000 hours. That was the normal 20 years ago. So be patient!
Volunteer with Civil Air Patrol. That will get you some opportunities at building air time. Also, find local glider clubs and see if you can fly as a tow pilot.
I feel you. Got my commercial and multi about 6 months ago with about 500 hours 0 check ride failures and I can't even get a TBNT. CFI courses are so full right now my course and check ride are scheduled for June, and I reserved it 6 weeks ago. Not that there are any CFI jobs available anyway.
Hell I'm even offering to right seat for free for several months if someone will pick me up and still nothing.
This is how pay takes a nose dive, willing to fly for free. SkyWest could cut their pay by 30% tomorrow with no union to fight it and they would still have people lined up
Yep, because this job is completely on board with the union ideals right. Like the apprenticeship program that you all went through. Like the fact that union pilots are not trying to force out older union members as far as possible so they can take that seat.
Give me a break.
This job requires you to work under CBA’s without them you will be no different from every other shitty 135 operation out there. Forcing older pilots out please
It’s because of people like you that pay stays stagnant. Disgusting and disgraceful. Your time is worth something. Sitting right seat in a King Air, Metroliner should at least snag you 50k. If you take a spot where you pay or don’t receive compensation you are no better than a scab who crosses over the line.
Stop putting all your eggs into the cfi basket. Look into aerial survey, banner towning, pipeline, etc..... You probably have over what 50% of what most company mins are with the 600. Idk what you have multi wise. But your probably not far off what alot require if your not already over. Besides anything outside of instruction will give you real world experience. You'll actually be doing x- counties, true flight planning, complex airspace. Not just beating up the patern and having students try to kill you until you get to 1500.
Back in the day we used to walk uphill both ways in the snow to fly 18 hour days in a Navajo moving checks for the ball-crushing factory at $2.17/hr plus tip. At the end of the day we paid our boss for the service needed 7000 hours to get a look at by NutCrushing Regional. They put you in a simulator for the interview and I remember that instructor broke his clipboard because the F16 pilot going before me couldn’t do a V1 cut in the brasildo with a windshear recovery stapled on. We did triple occupancy motels too. Hiring is the best it’s ever been now. Soft hands brother soft hands.
I'm in the same boat. I've been applying for CFI/CFII nonstop since August for everywhere up here in the Chicago area. A lot of places aren't hiring or they only hire from within. It sucks but I'm trying to stay hopeful. If anyone knows a place hiring CFI/CFII in the Chicago/Northern IL area please lmk lols
Buy a plane and start your own business, airlines aren't the only career option for flying. You could buy a C182 or a larger plane, work out an agreement with an airport, and start a skydiving operation, skydiving instructors are easy to find and people are always gonna be willing to pay to jump out of a plane. When you're not jumping, you could ferry freight if you had a larger plane. Buy a crop duster, get a pesticide license, and learn how to spray. Buy something to do aerial mapping/surveying and start doing that.
Where you've got skills but no opportunity, make your own. Any of these could be a more lucrative business than being an airline pilot if you're willing to hustle and take some risks.
Get in with a flying club. You don’t need to be “hired”, once you’re in you can then instruct other members in the club plane. As long as you’re not a dick then people will pick you. You won’t get a steady salary but if you’re in an active area you can be pretty busy.
And this is why I never took any loans to become a pilot and I'm glad I kept my non pilot job skills up. All my mentors told me to have something to fall back on if I lost my medical or the industry changed.
I just got an Instructor job as a brand newly minted CFI. What worked for me was networking, talking to people and recruiting students that were happy with their schools.
I then approached the school I wanted to instruct for and let them know I had 3 students ready to go, I just needed a flight school that would allow me to instruct in their planes. I told them they didn’t need to give me any students and that got me hired.
I’m now instructing and started teaching a student that just walked in and nobody else was around so I did end up getting a student from them. Give it a try!
I couldn't find a full time flying gig from Spring of 2010 to the Fall of 2012. Shotgunned my resume like you did all over the place to anyone with an address including places that aren't flight schools. It sucks, but also it be like that sometimes. You gotta do something to keep yourself in the aviation system. My savior was a line service job. Flash forward to today I'm in the left seat at a legacy.
Could roll the dice like me and go into a LE agency with an air ops and try to snag a spot to build time. My agency has a fleet of 206's. They'll take anyone but preference points for rated pilots. It's a gamble because you might not get picked up then get stuck on the road.
I've never run a flight school so obviously I don't know about all the logistics that goes into running one, but at least from my perspective as a student, my previous flight school had a student wait-list of about 3-4 months? I had to wait about 4 months before they called me and told me they now have an instructor available to start my PPL training. When I started, aircraft availability wasn't an issue at all; in fact, I could pretty much schedule whenever I wanted and there would be a plane available. Some planes didn't even have flights scheduled all day.
So if there's a waitlist for new students, and aircraft availability isn't an issue, what other bottleneck could there be aside from a shortage of instructors? I'm just giving this perspective from purely what I observed at my previous flight school that I did my PPL at; just thought it would be interesting to mention.
Really sorry to hear this man. But don’t give up. Maybe focus on something else for a while, but don’t stop being proficient. It sounds like you’re prepared. So just make sure you remain prepared for when the opportunity you’re looking for comes up. I’ll be praying for you.
Its a hard time of year for hiring come march or April yoy will hear from someone. Hang in there you got this. CFIs are in need everywhere its the slow season.
brother I don't know if you've seen the news recently, but this has been a DISASTEROUS month for aviation and I would not be throwing my chips in with "new president therefore aviation business better"😂😂
Hey try applying for (Phoenix east aviation) Daytona beach (KDAB) PEA. I know they mostly hire in house graduates but they also hire sometimes people form outside and considering your experience i think they are gonna hire you !! I used to work there btw
I just talked to an instructor from PEA Daytona and they had over 100+ people that got their CFI ratings and only 20 were hired in the last application window. Plus all those people were in house.
There is always someone hiring for cfi. Sounds like you’ve been using the “cold calling” job hunting method, which is classic yet notoriously difficult which can lead to discouragement, as you have learned. Also, know that the “I give up” feeling is a part of it, so there’s that. Just make sure giving up is really the correct choice for you before you do. Giving up is not “giving up” if the thing is truly not good for you.
It helps to know where/how to look. One of if not the top places to look is the climbto350.com website (aka, “the orange site”). If you’re not already aware of it, you need to head over there immediately and get cracking. A quick glance at it shows there are postings as recently as February 10th for cfi’s. For example:
Feb 10, 2025: F/T & P/T Flight Instructors ($25-$30/hr - New Jersey
Feb 09, 2025: Part 141 Flight Instructors ($35/hr) - Maryland
Feb 09, 2025: Chief Flight Instructor ($65k) - Maryland
I found most if not all of my entry-level jobs over there. And it’s not just that, you can potentially find your career job there as well. There are others like this, like planejobs.com, but this one, for at least the past 30 years has been a top resource.
If you’re just building time and don’t care how, don’t tunnel vision on cfi. There are a lot of other ways. Banner towing, pipeline patrol, traffic reporting, small/midsize freight companies, the list goes on.
Also, you must be flexible, especially in the beginning. You can’t be picky and arrogant about it (ex. the “this/that is beneath me”, “I’m not going way out there”, etc. kind of attitudes). This profession will spit you out like that, as you are experiencing right now. You are REQUIRED to be willing to go wherever you need to to get what you need to get. Within reason, legality, and morality obviously, but hopefully you get the point.
Somebody should have told you that getting into this can and will most likely suck in the beginning, but it will get better and will be worth it, so long as YOU don’t fuck yourself along the way (aside from medical stuff which is sometimes not your fault but again, you should get the point).
You may have to eat ramen for awhile. You may have to goto timbuktu for awhile. You may lose people along the way. Sacrifices will be made. Hard times and hard decisions will come. Just like anything else, certain levels of a thing is not for everyone, and you have to understand what a thing comes with and make your decision.
Ok this is long enough for now. Hope you made it this far and hope this helps!
I am working on this problem right now! There is not enough CFI jobs to get everyone the hours needed. About 90% of the young pilots are blocked by regulations and insurance companies. I am preparing a complaint to the Aviation Sub-Committee to reverse the 1500 hour rule, and the 1000 rule that the insurance companies are imposing for you to get a Part 91 or Part 135 job! Bet you didn’t know about that one! You can see my articles at AviatorsMarket.com just search Riter and download article under documents. I have one article about doing sightseeing tours that might be helpful for you to build time. It is under the “Whale Watching-Pilots-One With Nature.” You can also watch the video at YouTube under Capt.Robert”ThatGuy”Riter.
No one is fighting for you new pilots! I have had a 30 year career as a CFI and Corporate pilot. Please contact me if you want to start fighting for your future. Right now you are totally DUCKED!
The reason pay is so good now is BECAUSE of the 1500 hr rule. I remember being pissed about too, but then I pulled up my pants and went and grinded / hustled to get my 1500. There are no shortcuts without consequences in this profession.
This is what I have been seeing from us older pilots. No concern for the new guys! For all those trying to earn a career in aviation let this guy be an example. NO ONE CARES! It is up to you to fight for your flying job! Doing approaches, short fields, and trying to build hours is useless to about 90%. The FAA has set regulations which makes going forward impossible, and no one is telling you guys. My heart goes out to our student pilots!
First off, don't assume the "older" pilots don't care, that's far from the truth, but it should be a wake up call. This profession will eat you up if you don't have a thick skin and some moxy. There is hardship to balance the pure awesomeness of getting paid to fly jets. Would it be so awesome if every Tom, Dick, and Sally were handed a set of wings and an airbus type rating? No, because I appreciate that when I show up to the jet, my FO had to bust their ass just like I did. I applied to over a 100 jobs when I was time building, I think I heard back from maybe 5. I will agree to an extent to one of your points, though I'd phrase it differently, It's not that no one cares, but no one owes you a job. Yeah it sounds cliche, but you need to struggle a bit to appreciate when you've made it. A majority of the pilots I have hated flying with were for 1 of 3 catergories:
1: Terrible attitude
2: Shit pilot and they didn't know it, or blamed everyone but themselves.
3: And to todays point, entitled pilots. Mom & Dad paid for a nice 141 college, got their 1,000 R-ATP, had a guaranteed instructor job at their school, then went right to a regional. They've never had to struggle for a flying job a day in their lives, and it comes through in how they conduct themselves on the flight deck. No, give me an average pilot who walked through fire to get to that seat and stuck with the grind. We'll have a helluva 3 day trip together because we both know how much worse it could have & HAS been.
Ok, that's the negative if I'm reading you correctly, now the positive, or the "cares" part.
1 word, NETWORK. Do you know how many jobs are out there but never get posted, because someone knows someone who would be a perfect fit? A lot. Go get involved in your local EAA chapter, Pilots-n-Paws (I really enjoyed these flights), skydiving, survey, etc. Go hang around the airport, knock on doors. An email is easy to send, but a guy taking the time to drive out and knock on my door (during appropriate business hours of course) means they really give a damn. Yes, the industry has evolved, and the low time building jobs aren't as prevalent, so you need to get creative. OP said they've checked 47 states, I assume that means they're willing to move, that's a good thing. I', about 4 years behind in my career track because I had a family and couldn't move, if you're flexible, go where the jobs are. With all the different types of aircraft on OP's list, he/she should have a leg up on most of their peers. I got my PPL in a Cirrus, I was the only person who had Cirrus time when a Chicago to California ferry came up in a facebook group I was in. Guess who got the gig? Because of that, I got more ferry's in the standard Cessna's / Pipers. This isn't rocket science, but it seems like the current generation saw the insane movement at all the levels of the airlines over the last 5 years, and someone thinks that's standard. I promise you it's not. What you're experiencing WAS the standard pre-2017.
Is it easy to sit there and say us current legacy guys don't get it? Maybe. But what I can tell you is that no one on this planet knows just how insanely lucky I am to be where I am than myself. This industry is so much pure dumb luck and timing, you just need to position yourself to take advantage of the opportunity when it actually arises.
I agree with many of your points. However, no one is fighting for the new guys. I have spent my 30 year career in aviation running a flight school, being a A&P, and as a corporate pilot. Since you are with the airlines you have been shielded by most of the corruption that is going on right now. These new kids are taking out 100K to 200K to go to flight school, with student loans that will follow them for the rest of their lives, and no chance of a job when they graduate with less then 300 hours. I am writing an article now about the corruption we have with the FAA check ride process. Another one of the FAA and NTSB unchecked criminal behavior. Filing two criminal complaints with the Dept. Of Transportation Inspectors General Office; and with the Aviation Sub-Committee. You and many of the pilots in the left seat have not be around a flight school or student pilot in decades! How could you even know about their hardships that we did not face? We are having planes fall out of the sky, we are losing flight crews and passengers, and livelihoods ruined. Please view and comment on my YouTube videos. I appreciate your interest, and perspective. I find it boring to talk with someone that agrees with me! Let me know why I am wrong.
I very much appreciate, and feel the pain of your dilemma. I am a veteran CFI, and have sent well over 100 applicants on check rides with only two failures, (they were both hand-me-downs from other instructors, so badly damaged, they could not be saved). I've been flying since 1991, and absolutely love to teach. There have been rich, prosperous years, followed by dry spells where I just wanted to throw in the towel. Ultimately, I bought my own Light Sport Aircraft to teach in, and since it's a TAA, (Technologically Advanced Aircraft), I can do commercial ratings in it, as well as Sport and Private. It is a Sling 2, which burns four gallons of mo-gas an hour, and is super cheap to maintain, (making it an affordable business tool). The hiring frenzy of the last five years is over, and has put the entire industry in a drought which will likely last a few years. I am starving for students, but the nice thing about running your own business, is you take in 100% of the revenue, unlike a school which pays you 25% of client invoices. If you can manage it, and you are serious about instructing, I would highly recommend going into business for yourself. You can check out my website www.verticalaviation.org if you're interested in how I operate. Either way, good luck to you! Cheers!
Try Box Aviation. In Montgomery Alabama. I got my PPL there. They seem to always be looking for CFI's. Eric Box is the owner. He is a really good guy. Box Aviation, Inc.
(334) 281-9005
Well, it could be like the early to mid 2000s where flying instructors would rent airplanes and find their own students. If you do that, make sure you get insurance.
Good luck. FYI, you probably have enough time to start looking at part 135 jobs also And try to get 25 hours of multi. That’s a big insurance hurdle for a lot of places.
You’re not becoming a CFI to build time. You’re becoming a CFI to teach people how to fly. You have to make sure you get that straight because no one wants a CFI that only cares about time building. Whatever you do, don’t step away yet. You’re gonna have a helluva time getting on with an airline if there’s a gap in your flying.
Hey man, best wishes in your time building endeavors. It's a predicament everyone and their mother who's a part of this whole thing is up against at the present.
FYI, just make sure when you go into instructing that your sole reason for being there isn't to get hours to go to an airline. There's some questionable ethics in that very last question of your vent session... Just remember who's paying thousands of dollars to be there and actually learn something. Not saying you won't be a quality instructor, but don't make getting to an airline your number one reason for showing up to work as an instructor either.
The industry has its ebbs and flows and it's only customary that every pilot pays their dues at some point. There's a few folks in my family who do this job and they've all been there, and they're doing just fine now. Don't get lost comparing yourself to others in this line of work; that's poisonous. It'll get better. Best of luck.
Your hours sound kind of low to me. A buddy of mine was recently hired as a first officer bySkywest. But he had more than double your flying hours when he applied then they hired him contingent on him completing a total time of, I think it was 1350 hours by a certain date at which he went to work for them. He flew the extra time he needed in my RV 12.
I had accrued about 1000 hours of instructor time when I was working toward my ATP and yet I never had a job working as a flight instructor. I worked as an independent contractor and found my own clients through networking and a little local advertising. I showed up at pilot group meetings and airports and shook hands. I left my business card on bulletin boards at FBOs. This was over 30 years ago when the airlines were furloughing and hiring was scarce. I had a non flying part time job where I learned additional valuable experience but I was flying and building time regularly. The experience I learned taught me how to run my own business and now I own a small flight school and a charter company. My flight instructors are all independent contractors who find their own students. I only provide the plane.
Sometimes you just have to think outside the box when the easy route no longer presents itself.
Find someone that'll rent you an airplane ot instruct in and just freelance. My first instructor was that way and I have two different friends right now that instruct in the same manner. Have the students get renter's insurance and you get a liability only policy for yourself and you're golden. The entire market is soft right now including aircraft sales so it's going to be tough for a while. Just a suggestion, maybe consider survey or pipeline work. There's a few larger operations that would take you on a 6-12 month contract where you man-camp it or effectively live in hotels for 6-12 months. You'll get 1,000 hours and make a bit of cash, but if you have wife/kids, it's gonna suck because you'll see 'em 1-2 days/month if you're lucky.
Good for him. The only thing worse than a departure post is when the OP continues whining on it for days. He said he was fed up, explained why, listed the qualifications, and actually stfu after.
After searching for a flight instructor for about a year to do my IPC I finally found one. How I came across him was a fluke. I was pulling my bird out of my tie down to go fly when he and another pilot taxied by to tie down as well. We got to talking while securing he was securing his plane and not knowing anything about him, I mentioned that I needed to find a CFII to do an IPC with me. As I was climbing into my Piper he walked up, gave me his card and said he would be happy to help me. I reached out to him a few days later and off we started working together.
My suggestion is to hang around airports, talk to people, go talk to IA's and let them know you are looking for students. Just don't go to flight schools try everything. I am in the business of sales, and I have to find business, you are too, the only difference is your business is finding students, and mine is selling insurance. The process is the same.
I would even go as far and write a plan to find students. Hang out in FBOs, Terminals areas at airports, join local pilot associations and attend meetings. Do not volunteer you are new, just hone your craft, gather knowledge and share that knowledge. When you train, just don't pull out an FAR AIM and train out of that, but develop lesson plans.
Don't give up, but find a way to offer your knowledge, experience and training. If you do this, you will be surprised at how much business you will get, and you will end up at a flight school.
Buy a cheap experimental and boost those hours. I owned insured and hangared a plane for less than 500/mo. in 2022. 15k buy in but you can do it for way less if you're brave. You learn more about airplanes owning one that you ever will instructing. Right now your just a guy that can handle a stick.
Have you tried posting to your local FB flying groups and offering your services? I was an independent CFI for awhile and had more work than I could handle instructing in personally owned planes. Everything from rusty IFR pilots, bi-annuals, to more certs.
Once I started working with one plane owner they’d recommend to another plane owner buddy and my work expanded fairly quickly.
Not that it solves your problem, but know you’re not alone. I got my CFI in September and CFII in December, and despite working at a flight school/FBO for the last year and a half, I don’t have a job either. The school I’m at is relatively large and successful, but none of the instructors at 1500+ hours are leaving. I’ve also applied at every other school in a 50 NM radius, as well as some out of state.
In the meantime, I’ve been deicing airplanes at my local class bravo. Not where I want to be right now of course, but it’s something for now. There was a thread the other day talking about people who were flight instructing in 2008, and reading those stories made me feel a little better about the state of the industry.
I suspect that schools give priority to flight instructors who are students needing the money to continue paying that school for more advanced certificates. My theory is why pay some pilot that gives me nothing in return while I can hire one of my advanced students who need help paying for one of my courses. Maybe you can negotiate with a school to take one of their advance courses if they can help you pay for it buy hiring you as a flight instructor.
Keep knocking man. It’s all about timing… go back to the ones you already went to and be that squeaky wheel… the second you walk out of there they have forgotten about you and the next guy that comes in when they need someone is the one they take. Stay proficient as much as you can, teach on the side and try to find independent owners of planes to do training and flight reviews. If you are good and get this going word spreads of you and you can actually stay decently busy part time instructing these type of guys. We all have that feeling though, even as we start applying to the airlines that aren’t hiring right now. we will all get there one day just on different timelines with a little luck, determination, and patience
It’s a ‘boom-bust’ industry. Believe it, or not, it will probably get worse before it gets better. I recall several of these periods over the course of my career. There was a point where I had 3500 hours and couldn’t get into the right seat of anything, period. I drove a truck and sold firewood, wasn’t so bad.
I’ve wondered what the hiring environment looks like there right now, is the wet CPL with multi still have a chance to get hired if someone writes a LOR?
Yep, I’m in several groups including Airplanes and Coffee, CFI Jobs Page, SoCal aviators, etc. I saw one last week from a school in New Mexico looking for CFIs. I see posts like this every week. They probably got a lot of applications after posting on Facebook but the jobs are out there.
Oh man, fellow A&C member, I have to take that group in very small doses.
Check out “student pilot community” I’m a long term member there and that group needs more good CFIs chiming in, good group, never see politics there or any of that junk
Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll join them, passed my IRA and FII yesterday so I need to be a CFII within 24 months
Don’t give up. Keep trying. There has to be someone somewhere. You are nearly halfway through your journey. Giving up isn’t an option. Journey of a pilot may not be easy. But one day you will remember this day and feel proud of yourself.
I couldn't find squat either so I gave up actively looking. I decided to do some charity kids flying events and the CFI opportunities grew after that. Rent a plane, volunteer to fly civil air patrol kids, local EAA chapter, any school or organization that takes kids up, Angel Flights , pilot n paws, etc. Most of these groups have pilot message boards and you can connect with people there to put your name out there.
Go to the local schools and say "hey I have a friend that wants to learn to fly but I'm not currently working at a school. Can I teach him/her through your school, can use your classrooms to teach grounds, etc?" (Don't lie, find someone with real interest.) I tried that one, sort of worked because through doing short & long volunteer flights I kept getting so many folks interested in flying connected to my name at a club. Worked at that club briefly until their plane broke down for good.
Later I landed my current CFI job when one of my previous CFIs (only flew 3 hours for an insurance check out 6 years ago) from years past noticed me flying a lot and I told him I'm looking for a CFI job. He offered me a job albeit months later.
Long story short, to get hired as a CFI the employer has to have some trust in you and so the key is to find ways to make friends or establish a relationship somehow.
Yet so many small clubs struggle to find CFII for their members. I'd say go talk to local clubs, see if they need anyone. They may not hire you because they are not an employer, and it may not produce steady work but I know I struggle to find CFI's that are checked out for the clubs I'm in.
I have a question from an observation…within these forums, the sheer mass of new pilots appears anecdotally to be incredibly high. But the published FAA numbers don’t bear this out. There’s still only around 150,000 +- pilot jobs. Between Commercial and ATP the total number is about 285,000 (with 179,000 of that holding ATP certificates). Of course, retirement attrition will always continue at a modest rate. I hear a lot of anecdote but I don’t think the statistics are as egregious as Reddit posts would suggest. At the end of the day, it’s a small industry (the flying part at least) with a high cost of entry.
This overused, extra cringe comment is even more cringey at a flying sub where you'd think the averger Redditor would understand you don't need to announce your departure from the majority of the airports on the planet.
I know what it's like to have that CFI rating and not be able to use it as much as you want. I got mine in the late 2000s. Furloughed regional guys were instructing at my school because they had history there.
My point is just because you have that CFI doesn't mean you need to use it. Find other ways to build time and get paid to do it. I did pretty much everything short of being a jump pilot. It's a slog but an hour is an hour. Try to have fun. Good luck.
Hit up North Dakota. Don’t give up. Keep flying, and stay off Reddit. It’s an anxiety factory that you can do without. Try to fine sim trainer jobs, Border patrol (they are hiring and waiver hours if CFI) or skydiving gigs (most need 500 PIC). Don’t give up. And again, stay off Reddit.
It took me just under 2 years after finishing CFI and CFII to land my first instructing job. It was super frustrating but persistence eventually paid off. To make ends meet I took a job outside of aviation (went to college for a non-aviation degree as a backup which helped me there). Joining a flying club allowed me to stay proficient and build experience.
I’ve now worked as a CFI “full-time” for 2.5 years. I absolutely love the work but the pay is terrible and it’s not a career in most cases. After passing R-ATP minimums ~8 months ago it’s crickets on the apps for anything that could be considered a career. Very reminiscent of hunting for my first CFI job.
Two things keep me showing up to the flight school 6 days a week, 1) I enjoy flying and flight instruction infinitely more than I did working my desk job, even if that means a big pay cut and scraping by for a while, and 2) Experience opens doors. If nobody wants to hire you, it’s because someone with more experience is an option. Experience is not necessarily directly related to flying either. What drew interest in my application for my first CFI gig was volunteer work I did throughout high school and college for a cause the owner of the flight school was very passionate about. The flight schools I work for now were comparatively easy to get into once I had a fair bit of instruction experience under my belt.
The volatility of this industry is not for everyone. If it is something you’re truly passionate about doing don’t give up. Find a way to continue to make yourself more marketable. I had unrealistic expectations when I finished training that I could find a job with the experience that I had fresh out of flight school, which was the bare minimum. As others have pointed out the past several years were an absolute anomaly with the market and getting hired for anything with bare minimum experience is not likely.
On the same note I like to think I have a better shot at a callback over my peers who called it quits as soon as they hit 1,500 and stopped flying to “wait out the slump”. Take a job that’s not flying if that’s what it takes to keep flying, but keep flying.
Many schools won't hire those who just want to build hours. It means a constant turnover of staff which no employer likes. They want instructors, not hour builders.
Do you put all those types on your resume? Point being, I would hope you tailor that down to the aircraft specific to where’s you are applying. As a person who has been in a role hiring instructors in the past, that many types listed all at once screams to me somebody claiming to be more experienced than reality would present.
That being said, send me a DM if you’re that serious about moving for a gig.
I would pick up a job to pay off your debt. Flying will happen at some point, but what you don’t want to do is not work in any form. Long employment gaps aren’t really a good thing.
Squadron 2 at KRHV is a club and has a fleet of 172s and 140/160s. You get checked out and can just add yourself to the roster as a CFI. San Jose is crazy expensive, but that model isn’t unique. Are there any clubs around you? I think there’s on at Mather and another at Sacramento Executive?
I’m one of SQ2s main 141 cfis. What you said is true, you can get added to the cfi list as long as you have an instructor certificate. However, that means you’re limited to people you bring in yourself or find standing around looking for somebody to talk too. You won’t be given any students. Most of the 141 CFIs are people who did their training in house tho.
Yeah, clubs are weird in that you can’t advertise being a CFI to the public, you can only tell people in the club. Otherwise, it’s just a normal part 61 school. Never really liked the structure because if shifts all the liability and risk to the CFI since the CFI is a club member who can do instruction instead of an employee. But if the choice was not flying at all or being a club CFI, then it wouldn’t really be a choice.
How many actual interviews? I'm gonna bet your resume needs work. Seems to be a big problem in the industry at the moment. My boss seems to spend a lot of time making fun of them.
Hiring should pick up eventually. Alternatively, you could go with another GA job like a scenic pilot or jump pilot or something like that. CFI is not the only way to get a lot of hours, it's just the quickest.
Real talk, my CFII has a construction company on the side. My old CFI had a waiter job on the side.
The market hurts right now in almost every industry, but aviation is super down from what I’ve seen. From service to piloting, they’re all hurting.
Even A&P work isn’t paying what it used to in my experience as I’ve been doing it for nearly 6 or so years, but dudes in my area are getting paid almost $5 less than when I got hired on.
Are there any flying clubs near you that you can get affiliated with? Might be able to pick up a side job and get a handful of hours a month while you wait to get picked up by a flight school. You mentioned time in Cirrus- did you get your CSIP? Might be good for differentiation and get you in there door at schools that fly them.
Sorry it sucks. If you're looking for freelance work, post something about where you're located (e g. zip code) and maybe us lowly part 61 folks can pay you to fly around in some clapped out planes. It's often hard for us to find CFIs.
I feel you mate. Don't listen to half the guys here. This industry is brutal. You only hear of the guys that make it so they are very biased.
It took me years to find a start and when I did COVID hit. 3 years later I did end up finding another job but it's not much better as an instructor with the low pay and BS you have to put up with on a daily basis.
And all for maybe a chance of a better job or a possible regional gig. It's easy to get disillusioned and it's completely normal to be upset don't let any of these other pilots tell you otherwise or that your pain is not valid because they had it harder. Maybe take a break to recharge the batteries and reassess if you want to give it another shot. Nothing in this life is guaranteed.
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Im writing this post just to vent.
I give up looking for a flight instructor job. After 400+ emails, applications, and in-person visits, and phone calls, not one place is hiring. This is in 47 states, almost every major city, and various size flight schools. I either get no response or not hiring (both in person and via email/phone call). This includes Florida, Arizona, and every other place people say to look. The only states I did not apply to are Alaska, Hawaii (too expensive), and North Dakota.
A little about me. CFI/CFII, working on MEI (though probably not for long because what's the point). 600 hours, spread across C172/172rg/182/182rg/180/206/210/310/337, PA28-161/181/28R, M20, BE76/A36, DA20/40/42, SR20/22/22t, T6, pt17/19/23, plus .5 in a p51 (birthday present). 200 hours dual given, 5/6 first time pass rate, TW, hp, cmp, g1000, avidyne entegra/r9, g5, and round dials.
Its ridiculous that almost every school I hear back from is not hiring. How is anyone supposed to build time to get to an airline.
standardtemp2383@reddit
Dm me I know one that is hiring
UnusualCalendar2847@reddit
Is that school still hiring?
standardtemp2383@reddit
Yes they are
UnusualCalendar2847@reddit
What’s the name of the school?
Brave_Truth1900@reddit
How did that turn out? No messages from OP since.
standardtemp2383@reddit
never got a message
Brave_Truth1900@reddit
So disappointing. It’s a throwaway account. What to expect.
nik_the_one@reddit
Please tell me this worked out. Reddit as a solution would be wholesome and hilarious 😂
ray68231@reddit
Op should read the comments as fast as possible
standardtemp2383@reddit
Still waiting for him or her to answer
Brave_Truth1900@reddit
RemindMe! - 7 day
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Successful_Egg_949@reddit
RemindMe! - 7 day
smoquin@reddit
This gig is ball busting. But don’t worry, I know you have heard this 1000 times but it’s true so I’ll say it again. “Things change overnight!”. Lucky for you it sounds like you are young with no responsibilities. Try and stay sharp, don’t stop studying, get in a a desktop sim and shoot approaches. Rent a plane once a month. Before you know it you’ll be writing a giant alimony check from the left seat of a widebody.
Crusoebear@reddit
If you aren't writing at least 3 big alimony checks from a shitty little apartment - are you even a real airline pilot?
hungry-waterbear@reddit
Speechlessly laughing 😂
LowGradeBeef@reddit
HAHAHAHAHA!
Mossieoak@reddit
This cracked me up lol
IPSC_Canuck@reddit
So, Canadian here. Things aren’t identical here but there’s a few things I noticed. The norms would likely be the same. I was a CFI for several years, managed a flight school and a number of small charter airlines, and was a Chief Pilot for 6 years. So I did a fair amount of hiring.
I’m reading your post and thinking “god I hope they didn’t put that on a resume…”
I’m referring to the P51. Cool experience and I’d put it in my logbook for posterity sake, but definitely leave it off the resume because it’s not relevant to work experience. I wouldn’t list any type on a resume that you weren’t legally capable of doing revenue flying on.
Also, the 5/6 pass rate is something you could leave off as well. What do you call a Dr who graduated dead last in their class? Doctor! The exams snd flight test scores are irrelevant. You passed. You’re a pilot. That’s all that matters.
The other thing… your post is called “I give up”… this is never something that a pilot should utter, and it maybe points towards an issue in general attitude. You can never give up. No matter how shitty it gets, don’t give up. I started my flying career 7 months after 9/11. The market was depressing to say the least. It was as bad as the job market had been from the late 80’s until now I believe. Lots of people in my class didn’t get behind the controls for 3 years but most of us pressed on. In person, personalized searching was what seemed to be most successful. I can tell you from the hiring side, that someone who shows up, knows every airplane the company flies, what type of work they do, and where their bases are go to the top of the pile. The resumes I got which said “To whom it may concern. I’m applying for a first officer position on your cessna 206” went in the garbage. If you can be bothered to figure out who the CFI/CP is at a small company, if you don’t understand that a single pilot VFR operation wouldn’t employ a first officer on a 206, then why would I hire you?
Anyways enough of the diatribe… you obviously have allot of time and money invested in this thing to just give up… keep at er! Personalize your approach and keep at it.
Also, don’t discount HI and AK just because the cost of living is high. You might love it there. And you can take a small hit now if it gets you into the higher paying jobs sooner. A small financial burden now might make for a huge payoff many years earlier.
Just my two cents.
Goldman_Black@reddit
I love this comment. Makes me want to do flight school in Canada, lol
IPSC_Canuck@reddit
Thanks! But I’m not sure it’s really the same as it was back in 2005!
Goldman_Black@reddit
Yeah, I’ve been hearing that. Im still going to pursue it. Im from the US, but I currently live in Montreal. Wherever I go, I know it will take me a while..I just hope the industry has more opportunities when that time comes.
bb1001@reddit
You can have my Cfi job. I think I have a whopping 0 students scheduled for this month.
Due-Value506@reddit
Northern IL by chance?? I just moved and looking to finish my ppl
drewcashen@reddit
Hey! I can help you out at Skill Aviation at KUGN. I’m a flight instructor there and could give you a tour, show you our planes and answer any questions you have. More than happy to help you and I could definitely make room in my schedule. We have C152s, C172s, DA20s, DA40, G1000 and a multi.
Due-Value506@reddit
I sent you a DM!
Beebrute@reddit
Depending on your budget and how far north you are in IL. Illinois aviation academy. They fly out of KDPA in West chicago by Carol Stream. Or check with Golden Wings in waukegan. They are the cheapest and have 2022 planes. They fly out of KUGN.
I flew with both and I like golden wings better
Due-Value506@reddit
Thank you!! I'm out in a rockford and looked into the two schools at JVL but was told to avoid them. IAA is a little pricey but I'll definitely check out Golden Wings. I appreciate that!
T6sandTaps@reddit
Avoid Elevation at all costs. Have my own experiences combined with experiences of countless different mediums of interactions there (students prospective students employees witnesses etc) - the guy who runs the place is kinda scarily certifiable.
Due-Value506@reddit
I heard they were losing their 141 certification so I was avoiding it (even though i'm part 61 - I was just told A LOT of their students fail their check rides.. Don't know how true it is, I was just warned). Plus, they're very costly. I'd rather pay IAA rather than them. But Poplar grove seems pretty appealing. I'm gonna call again in the morning and hopefully I can get ahold of someone
NoSoup4Ewe@reddit
Have you tried Poplar Grove? They have a good reputation.
Due-Value506@reddit
I actually just reached out to the office a few hours ago ago! They were closed so I sent Tina an email. They're about a 15 min drive from me currently so that would be ideal if they have room for me.
Beebrute@reddit
Bessie's diner in JVL. I used to fly there all the time for breakfast. I'm not a big fan of the chief pilot of IAA. Tough guy that scolds CFIs in front of customers. Also pricey.
Guys name at Golden Wings is dragan. He's the only one I flew with then. He's the owner. I had very good flight experience with the guy.
docNNST@reddit
IAA is great
MisslesMyGuy@reddit
Holiday Airways is Schaumburg IL has time for students.
bb1001@reddit
negative
InvinciblePilot@reddit
Interesting, I’m trying to find an instructor that actually has time to dedicate to me.
NevadaCFI@reddit
Where are you and what rating are you working on?
InvinciblePilot@reddit
Las Vegas, PPL
NevadaCFI@reddit
If you’d be willing to come to Reno, we can do an accelerated course for you. www.nvflight.com.
Feel free to PM me.
southferry_flyer@reddit
This thread turned into a whole networking event
ionLaz@reddit
What state are to you in?
No-Sympathy5404@reddit
Any chance you’re in the Jersey area?
DaciaSanderoLover@reddit
There is a reason I have a 6-2 job that pays 20 a hour 10 min from the airport
TinyPilotLady2424@reddit
Same! Everytime I go in to my work, (mind you our schedule gets posted the night before) I get told they don’t have a plane for me and I end up having driven 40 minutes for nothing. Last month I averaged maybe 20 hours, and we are hourly so I get double screwed 🫠
HoboRampage@reddit
I feel that. My hours are in the teens every month. I feel like I’m not getting anywhere
WhiteoutDota@reddit
Same here. It sucks.
tonkawizard@reddit
same bro, got a job but fly once a week
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
That's tough dude and I'm sorry to hear that. The industry is so tough right now and even entry-level CFI jobs are impossible. I've had to resort to working part-time as a ramp agent to pay the bills while I wait for a class. Granted I know I'm lucky because I got hired by an airline (been waiting for a class since last March). Hiring will pick up Q3-Q4 this year (not by much) but hopefully, it will be enough to get things slightly moving again.
Chin up and keep searching. Don't abandon the dream...
12kVStr8tothenips@reddit
F9? I know a few of people they’ve been stringing out for class dates. Wonder if it’ll pay off or they just keep pushing out class dates and taking off the street hires that are super qualified.
DinkleBottoms@reddit
Assuming the guy is an F9 cadet, classes have been about 50% cadets currently.
Ice-Dog-47@reddit
Don't read the F9 Cadet reddit. Things don't sound too promising over there. Hope it works out for all in that program but would hope that those there have realistic expectations.
DinkleBottoms@reddit
I’m over there all the time as I’m a cadet myself lol. I’ve tempered my expectations though
willflyforboatmoney@reddit
Same. Not worth worrying about until 1500 hours anyways. Just keep chugging along and network, network, network
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
I'm not F9. OTS hire for Envoy.
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
Last March… this has Skywest written all over it
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
Envoy actually
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
Uffdah…. SW gave me a projected 14 month waiting period from CJO, great stuff
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
I'm sorry dude, the wait is rough. When were you hired?
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
November. The wait for the interview was very fast, 2 weeks, I have a feeling they handed out CJOs like candy anticipating something and it hasn’t panned out
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
It's good though you at least got a CJO. The wait will suck, no way getting around that...
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
Seems to be the trend everywhere. Got a decent CFI gig close to my home works well for now
RobertWilliamBarker@reddit
The industry is normalized. You just think the past couple years are normal. It's not.
Seatown1983@reddit
It’s so tough right now. Not really.
RobertWilliamBarker@reddit
That's how it has always been. It's supposed to be tough. Not like it was the past couple years.
777f-pilot@reddit
This is exactly right.
the_devils_advocates@reddit
I guess I’m wondering why the guy isn’t working at the place they got their CFI
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
We had a lot of students get their certs or stop training. Work has dried up
the_devils_advocates@reddit
Unfortunately it’s part of the industry. Supply and demand
lodha21@reddit
If it's anything like my fc it's nearly impossible to get hired as a CFI if you didn't work on the ramp or dispatch for them previously right now. Atleast those are the accounts I've heard.
zero_xmas_valentine@reddit
Plenty of places are just too full. I have internal CFIs that I can't hire because I don't have enough work for them.
bottomfeeder52@reddit
it’s normal to not be able to find a job as a cfi anywhere in the country?
SSMDive@reddit
At times, yes. There were times where not even CFI jobs were available and the jobs that were available went to laid off airline guys with thousands of hours and real world experience.
bottomfeeder52@reddit
“at times” isn’t normal it’s an outlier
SSMDive@reddit
The fact is that it has been hard to find a job more than it has been easy for the vast history of aviation.
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
It's starting to be like this now. I've reached out to two other places nearby to see if I could find more consistent work. They both told me they don't have the demand for another CFI right now
NuttPunch@reddit
“Normalized” in comparison to what? 2000? 2008? 2015? I’d disagree. It’s definitely stagnating for a certain segment more so than in years past.
HotRecommendation283@reddit
lol, every aviation community has been saying this for over a year now. People haven’t coped with the downturn yet.
The market is flooded and ultimately this may be a dead career field for anyone that’s not prior-MIL in the next 5yrs.
NuttPunch@reddit
Not quite but I think in 5 years you’ll definitely be correct.
HotRecommendation283@reddit
If you don’t have a degree, 0 failures, and thousands of TPIC+Recs from current captains you aren’t getting into a major today.
The hiring wave is over, but the puppy mills keep flooding the system. Within a couple years people will start dropping out and this will become the new “CS Degree” equivalent.
Goldman_Black@reddit
Wow! That is the last thing I thought I’d hear about aviation. I’m going through the process of getting my medical now. Going into this as a career 2.0. My field is adjacent to CS, and I know plenty of qualified people out of work. I’ve never heard anyone say that would be the same fate as aviation.
HotRecommendation283@reddit
There is already a steady supply of favored prior MIL candidates, and then the media has propagandized a massive “need” upcoming with the retirement of boomer pilots.
In short, more ATPs have been handed out in the last 3 years than at any point in history. All while the explosion of jobs after Covid has dried up. If you rode the wave you are on lucky bastard. Otherwise it’s unlikely you may ever be paid to fly.
NuttPunch@reddit
Good point.
Greedy-Package1559@reddit
Saying this is a dead career field is wild
Guam671Bay@reddit
Dead may be crazy. Stagnant enough to make you question your career choice? It’s been done before, multiple times!
Greedy-Package1559@reddit
SkyWest just reported its highest profit margins in quite a while I’ve heard. It sounds most airlines like are going to pick up hiring again relatively soon
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
This is irrelevant to being a CFI but do you have a degree? Even the cfi job market, that might set you apart. I know my Alma mater won’t hire anyone without a degree. They used to hire external (not anymore since the slowdown) but a degree was always required.
Could be a good time to take a step back and focus on finishing that up if you haven’t yet. Non aviation related degree of course.
Goldman_Black@reddit
I’m just getting into this field. When you say, “they won’t hire anyone without a degree”, does the degree have to be specific to aviation, or any degree (just to know that you went to college)? My goal is to become a CFI, and move up later on if possible. I taught 3D animation at a university for almost 10yrs. I have plenty of teaching experience, and I’d figure that I’d be good for teaching folks how to fly.
Ice-Dog-47@reddit
Skywest profit margins and skywest hiring are two separate things. If airlines keep capacity discipline (less hiring) margins likely will go up.
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
I think you replied to the wrong person.
Common_Kiwi_2475@reddit
What airline? Waiting since last March, too 😂😭
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
Envoy
Common_Kiwi_2475@reddit
Same. I know your pain 😂
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
Canceled June 6th class gang?
Common_Kiwi_2475@reddit
Read my mind 😂 I wonder how many of us there are left
Mogollon_Clark@reddit
Right on lol. The solace I'm taking in this is I heard we are getting priority for classes. I know a few people who had the June 6th went off to other places so fingers crossed.
Common_Kiwi_2475@reddit
Same here! We will see what happens 😂😭
APandChill@reddit
I steer everyone away from this career. I’m at a major US carrier and we are expecting upgrades to go from what used to be one year back in 2021/2022 to 10-15 years in the next 12 months or so. Be a doctor, lawyer, plumber, electrician. They all make great money too and fly for fun.
BuzzTheTower12@reddit
None of those professions pay as much as much as major airlines pay their pilots. Except maybe medical specialists like surgeons, oncologists, etc. Not even regular doctors.
APandChill@reddit
There is no guarantee you will get here to a legacy carrier though. American, Delta and United have all slowed hiring down tremendously. Also, staying at home and making 400k as a doctor of any type vs 600k as a captain is very nice. You sleep in your tempurpedic system every night, get to have a home cooked meal that is very cheap to make and very healthy and a ton of other benefits. A base attorney has to make what? 250k after 6 years? A base general practitioner makes probably the same thing. Shit, if I could do it all again I’d have continued med school instead of being an airline pilot. 🤦🏽♂️
Guap-Zero@reddit
Your idea of what "base attorneys" make is flawed
APandChill@reddit
Just like what a pilot makes on his first year isn’t 250k. I know that you aren’t going to make a ton of money at the start but if I’m not mistaken a public defender makes around 110,000 around here. That’s not bad. Your first job will probably make you 75k and it only goes up from there. There isn’t a starting pilot job that makes that.
Guap-Zero@reddit
You in California? Public defenders are usually the least paid gigs...
Just saying...I know attorneys who have been doing what they do for 30 years and make between 70 and 100k
It's not a bad salary, but not glamorous either
BuzzTheTower12@reddit
Personally, I don’t care too much about the exact company I will fly for. I just want to get paid good money to fly a jet. Maybe my perspective will change when I get to the airlines, but I don’t know. I think whether or not one should be a pilot depends a lot on the lifestyle one wants, not just the money. I feel like I personally would get bored with a traditional 9-5 at the office kinda job. Flying for an airline, you fly new passengers every day, to new cities, even different countries. It’s a very dynamic profession. I actually like the idea of being in a new city all the time, in a hotel. Again, maybe this perspective will change when I get to the airlines, but who knows? In terms of lawyer pay, I could be wrong, but from what I’ve read, the pay is only very high for those who go to the big name law schools. Those who own their own practice or work for big law, can make big bucks though.
Simple_Match_1815@reddit
1700tt still cfi’ing with no class date in sight so partially to blame for cfi’s not leaving and new cfi’s not being able to be hired but I have to keep flying and stay current. You can have 3000tt but if you havent flown atleast a couple hundred hours in the past year, you’re even more cooked than an active cfi near atp mins. Industry is cyclical you’ll get on somewhere and have a different hurdle to complain about in 1000 hours trust me bro just enjoy the ride lol
Physical-Baby5652@reddit
try colonial air new bedford ma
Ok-Jackfruit4263@reddit
You're down, but you don't have to be out.
New-Community-4889@reddit
don't f... up f.... down
JJAsond@reddit
TBF I'm glad I gave up looking when I did. The man's got more hours than me, dual, and more airplanes and still can't find shit.
DevLikeMikhail@reddit
very interesting how different the flight instructor situation is up North in Canada. Most schools have a 6 month wait list in the Vancouver area and all the instructors get poached by airlines immediately at certain thresholds
Careless_Music_3786@reddit
I’m from Van and it’s the same at my flight school. We’ve got a 6 month + waitlist, my schools begging for instructors lol so this post is so interesting to read. Maybe here we have more of a shortage
DevLikeMikhail@reddit
gotta count our blessings 🙏,
yet i will still do my CPL conversion and book it to europe right away
Careless_Music_3786@reddit
LMFAO REAL
DevLikeMikhail@reddit
also showing this post to my flight schools owner. They said there is a chance you aren’t getting picked up because you are over qualified. flight schools want to milk their instructors for all 1500 hours they can because you leaving would be inevitable.
if you want a decent flying gig for a lot of hours look here in Yellowknife
ionLaz@reddit
I am in NJ I have decided to start flight training. The 2 schools that I would like train at have me on a waiting list because they are booked up.
I have messaged various CFI directly that I have found on the internet to see if they could provide flight with my own plane, not one has responded.
I can't explain it.
Embarrassed-Elk7783@reddit
Hey, I'm in central Jersey and a CFI/CFII, reply if you'd like to chat, I have availability.
Careless_Music_3786@reddit
I’m in Canada and my flight school has a 6 month waitlist to get an instructor because we’re so understaffed. Maybe some gotta come up haha
Mountain-Cut-7708@reddit
Hiring will pick up soon. As the majors start back up, the regional and thus CFI hiring will increase. Boeing has put most airlines on pause.
I had to work at Best Buy for a few months in ‘98 because none of the local schools were hiring.
This career does require patience. Annoyingly so.
Urawizardharry99@reddit
With all these credentials and no call back it’s starting to sound like OP is personality challenged
Ithium64@reddit
This is really strange. I decided to get my PPL a couple months ago and in doing research I read an article in an online business journal (don't remember which one, sorry) that said there is a massive shortage of licensed pilots right now. At least in the US.
Now most people here say it's impossible to find a job. Yikes! It reminds me of my current field. I know several people looking for IT jobs who NEVER get call backs but all I ever hear from companies is "we can't find any applicants" when I've given them 2 or 3 people who already applied.
Careless_Music_3786@reddit
Same, every airline pilot I speak to says now is the best time to be in flight training because of the pilot shortage. But then I read posts like this and am so confused 😭 I’m in Canada and I’ve read similar articles too, hell idk what my future will look like lol
Beneficial_Test_6789@reddit
It’s a lie made up by flight schools to impose a sense of urgency into you- make you feel like if you don’t start now that you’ll miss out, which usually makes you think- oh I should get a loan this flying stuff is such a booming industry… DON’T DO IT!!!! DO NOT! I have no other advice. I took out a loan and the stress and inflexibility that comes with knowing I’ll have to pay a mortgage level payment in 2 years because of my debt for flight training is terrible. Save up the money- go cash. Live off of rice and beans, rent a cardboard box, get a decent paying job- and SAVE SAVE SAVE!!!!!
Sommern@reddit
How’s the job market for oil rig work in Alaska?
mittrawx@reddit
Aviation prior to sitting in the right seat of a jet is hitting the rig but in the air. If you even get that far.
Buddy_kid@reddit
Dog don’t give up, you got one life win it
MDT230@reddit
Bro if you can’t find a job with that kind of qualification, then I am fucking cooked. I am working on CFI now and I might just declare a Minor atp.
Frost_907@reddit
If you can bring yourself to do so, try applying at some of the flight schools in Alaska. There are a good number of schools in the Anchorage and Palmer area that might take an interest in you, especially with your hours and a CFII rating. Best of luck!
Zealousideal-Set9172@reddit
So true! If you go during the warm season, you could camp nearby. Or if during cold season, it might be cheaper due to less tourism. You could also try applying corporate side— I know a few that hire before you get their recommended hours
Dizzy_Minimums@reddit
Keep going/keep applying. Fly enough to stay current and pass an interview but not much more than that. There are so many retirements still on the books. My airline plans to resume hiring end of summer permitting scheduled airframe deliveries. It may never be like it was the last few years, but hiring will resume. Movement will come back and you sound like a well qualified CFI.
Yuuki280@reddit
Come down south, get set up as a freelance CFI and compete with all the overpriced flight schools
Character-Shoe-7803@reddit
Don't give up buddy, delay is not denial. I've been through similar setbacks but if one thing is certain about this industry, it's that this industry is uncertain. Times like this are always hard, but they are always right before the next hiring boom
lmcinnis9@reddit
Aviation is so flooded right now. Absolutely no pilot shortage. We pumped out so many damn inexperienced pilots we don’t know what to do with them. If you are trying to get into the industry come back when it flips.
No_Photo3444@reddit
This might be a silly question but do you have to be associated with a school? Can you work with an independent instructor? Not that that would be easier, per se, but possibly widens the net
OkResearcher4130@reddit
https://aero.und.edu/employment.html
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
Good luck with that they have like 3 application classes a year and currently each one has 2-300 people and they take about 6
Mobile_Passenger8082@reddit
Good thing the certificate mills are still churning out wet commercials at a ridiculous rate.
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
“Career Tracking” you might say
Dependent-Place-4795@reddit
Didn’t you hear from atp and thrust flight, there is a big pylot shortage!!!!
Plus-Worry-1847@reddit
That would be because no one in the industry is hiring rn! It’s a domino effect. No one is moving
Upbeat_Coconut8943@reddit
Try UVU
bhalter80@reddit
One of the schools in Norwood MA was just advertising for people
Intrepid-Drink5668@reddit
I would avoid working for Horizon at all costs
WhiteoutDota@reddit
Who? ECAC or Horizon? I have 200 dual and Horizon never even returned my inquiry. Not that I've heard they're fun to work for.
Strange_Code_68@reddit
Did my private there. Those dudes get worked hard. 6 days a week min. But my instructor was wonderful and got all his hours in a year and three months. He out now.
Strange_Code_68@reddit
Horizon that is*
kev12500@reddit
Applied to horizon but they denied me :( CFII 50 hours dual
bhalter80@reddit
Horizon
ThatOneGriefer@reddit
Did my private with Horizon, absolutely wonderful people & school.
BenRed2006@reddit
I did my PPL written there. Nice people
J0E_Blow@reddit
ECAC's location(s) might be one of the few areas where you can't scrimp and save to get by on a CFI's wage.
Ill-Region6927@reddit
Go independent. Make facebook posts to find students and instruct out of flight club airplanes. It’s way better than working at a flight school anyways. 99% of flight schools suck ass and are going to treat you and your student like shit
LordHalifax13@reddit
well don’t tell the FAA if you do to that way.
ToxicFuzeMain@reddit
Flight instruction is a 119 exemption
Sea-Restaurant5153@reddit
Guys do not forget that cfibis not the only route yoi got small companies hirimg with low hours and you got delivery companies too like emt
youngeshmoney@reddit
Dude that's because you're looking in the wrong places, whomever told you CFI was the only way to build hours lied, plenty of 135 companies are always looking for pilots. Dunno how far you'd want to move but here's one in the Mariana islands, cost of living there isn't TOO bad. This isn't a great example but you get the point. I'd say, in my opinion, forget the MEI and get your CPL, you have the hours required, and I don't see any mention of instrument rating but there's no way you DON'T have that so yeah .https://www.indeed.com/q-part-135-pilot-jobs.html?vjk=b92d7d32899d59b1&mna=&aceid=&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAk8G9BhA0EiwAOQxmfk0h5-uIdqUdj6NiSpa1MTMgdX3LKQaDs1EHksq-mLPDQnl1tn6KaBoCoPkQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds There's a lot more opportunities I see here in the US, you'll just have to look and see which one applies to your experience and certifications
hmasing@reddit
I don't know a single flight school in southeastern michigan that ISN'T hiring...
Extrataps@reddit
Very interested in the names of these schools as I’m not familiar with the area.
hmasing@reddit
https://soloaviation.aero/
https://www.skywalkerflying.com/
Those are the two I know were interviewing CFI's as recently as this week.
Extrataps@reddit
I appreciate you so much!
jc200200@reddit
Keep your head up bro, hell at least you got your medical. Try having that ripped away from you. Now I’m working on my A&P and might just grab my dispatcher license for the hell of it. Try Beverly Flight Center in the north shore area of Massachusetts. But please don’t give it up. I wish i could have my CFI. Keep pushing forward
iAutorotate@reddit
If you're looking to build time and not opposed to long hours and traveling, look into ag spraying. Most places have you run a mix truck for a season or two but once you're in, it's possible to make damn near what an airline captain makes. Plus it's seasonal so you typically get 4-5 months off straight.
I've been where you're at. Applied to nearly 100 flight schools just trying to find that time builder. I got lucky as an ag company reached out to my local airport looking for a pilot. It took about 4 years to go from loader to full time ag pilot making nearly $300,000 a season. Its not uncommon for some of these guys to make 400,000+ but it is definitely work.
The industry may not be so great right now, but there are options, don't give up! I'm sure you will land something!
SadEmergency5288@reddit
does this mean no new student is learning flying? means less new pilot competition when you look for a pilot job in future. isn't it?
PleaseCallMeEvan@reddit
Honestly, try to get on at a college flight school. I go to Oklahoma State and we have a major instructor shortage at all times. They hire students as soon as they get their CFI (part of our course), but it’s not enough to suite the ever growing pool of students so they are almost always looking to hire CFIs from outside the program. Idk how other universities are, but I feel like they’re probably in the same boat.
On top of that, you’ll probably get multiple students on a fixed schedule so you don’t have to worry as much about students flaking out.
PleaseCallMeEvan@reddit
Idk if that’s good advice or not, but if you can’t find anywhere else it’s worth a shot
135tankerdriver@reddit
After 9/11 I was in the same situation as you. I decided to apply for an active duty Air Force pilot slot. 20 years later I have a pension and a job at a majors. Another option guard/reserve.
davihar@reddit
Contact the 135 & 121 airlines in Alaska for a summer job. Say you’d like to stay through winter if it works out.
Flying-Guy-6699@reddit
Pretty sure my school in ga is hiring
Extrataps@reddit
Interested! Can you PM me the name(
Expensive-Season5026@reddit
Dont give up. Look up jobs overseas. Trust the process
Electrical-Bed8577@reddit
Go where you know, humbly. Or, go where you want to be. Find a place you love and fly. Then, make your rounds until they hire you.
girl_incognito@reddit
Find a good sized flying club near you, join it, hang out there as much as you can. Do discovery flights, build up a client base, br and independent contractor and keep all the money you earn instead of giving 2/3 of it to a flight school.
pattj91@reddit
I tell everyone who will listen to have a backup in case aviation doesn’t work out. This is my second career, I still do my old job part time and can jump into a full time role if needed. Makes it much easier to ride the waves. Find something to pay the bills and keep searching; you’ll get something eventually.
ClaimOk4790@reddit
Hey dude.
Plenty of pilots have been in your shoes. Over the last few years especially in the USA I’ve seen people have an incredibly fast progression.
Reality is it sometimes slows down.
I myself was once in your shoes and in my case I only managed to sneak in the back, by fixing a simulator and then “flying” the ops-desk.
This is around 2008-2010 when one required thousands of hours inkl 500ME PIC to be hired on to a regional turboprop.
Keep at it. It’s absolutely worth the hard yards -and you will look back at them fondly.
//written with an ice cold Orion beer on my hand , from the business class lounge in Naha, Okinawa where I just had a layover.
PistonCowgirl@reddit
SoCal… plus one flyer club is always open to instructors. You’ll fly as much or as little as you want. I flew in socal and souther AZ. Made $75 per hour and made it to the airlines in 18 months
Guap-Zero@reddit
Where were your 200 hours dual given?
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
This industry has always been cyclical. I’ve always got my jobs by actually walking in and introducing myself. When I was a Chief pilot for a 135 operator I got tons of resumes, but preferred to hire people who actually came in to introduce themselves. Your time will come, don’t give up. Maybe consider going to Alaska and flying 135. Caribbean and Guam also have cool 135 operators.
PaduaPanda@reddit
Then don’t work at a major city! There are plenty of people in small towns in AZ that don’t want to travel to Phoenix to learn. Just invest in your own plane and talk to folks in smaller cities/towns
podscum@reddit
Probably mentioned: go Air Force, Army, Coast Guard, Navy, Marines. Do same for every country on the Earth. Or not.
Buy a plane, advertise lessons. Maybe not doable due to lawyer scum viz. insurance rates. The lowlifes have destroyed much activity.
baby600rr@reddit
Go on your own ? Advertise yourself ?
PiperDriver1977@reddit
It took me 3 years to get a CFI job, then i had to work for another 5 and then i got to the airlines with 5000 hours. That was the normal 20 years ago. So be patient!
This-Current-7366@reddit
Buy a plane and give yourself a job
DaciaSanderoLover@reddit
School a ctj is looking for a cfii
No_Currency5230@reddit
Just wait till late March/ early April when class dates start. Should hypothetically help
ImMoneyMakingSunny@reddit
I’ll rent C172 for private lessons
Feeling-Ad-8554@reddit
Volunteer with Civil Air Patrol. That will get you some opportunities at building air time. Also, find local glider clubs and see if you can fly as a tow pilot.
Accomplished_Phone39@reddit
I feel you. Got my commercial and multi about 6 months ago with about 500 hours 0 check ride failures and I can't even get a TBNT. CFI courses are so full right now my course and check ride are scheduled for June, and I reserved it 6 weeks ago. Not that there are any CFI jobs available anyway. Hell I'm even offering to right seat for free for several months if someone will pick me up and still nothing.
JewofTVC1986@reddit
This is how pay takes a nose dive, willing to fly for free. SkyWest could cut their pay by 30% tomorrow with no union to fight it and they would still have people lined up
Accomplished_Phone39@reddit
Yep, because this job is completely on board with the union ideals right. Like the apprenticeship program that you all went through. Like the fact that union pilots are not trying to force out older union members as far as possible so they can take that seat. Give me a break.
JewofTVC1986@reddit
This job requires you to work under CBA’s without them you will be no different from every other shitty 135 operation out there. Forcing older pilots out please
APandChill@reddit
It’s because of people like you that pay stays stagnant. Disgusting and disgraceful. Your time is worth something. Sitting right seat in a King Air, Metroliner should at least snag you 50k. If you take a spot where you pay or don’t receive compensation you are no better than a scab who crosses over the line.
stevo439@reddit
Stop putting all your eggs into the cfi basket. Look into aerial survey, banner towning, pipeline, etc..... You probably have over what 50% of what most company mins are with the 600. Idk what you have multi wise. But your probably not far off what alot require if your not already over. Besides anything outside of instruction will give you real world experience. You'll actually be doing x- counties, true flight planning, complex airspace. Not just beating up the patern and having students try to kill you until you get to 1500.
Impressive_Pangolin5@reddit
Can get you a full time 91 job flying an a36 Tn and aero commander. Dm me
Shadeslayer240@reddit
Dm me, I may have something for you in Northern Michigan. It's the 141 flight school I currently work at.
_theCh0sen0ne_@reddit
I think my flight school is looking for instructors. Dubois Aviation Flight Training in Chino, CA. https://duboisaviation.com/employment/
TheAceOfSpades115@reddit
Posts like this is why I’m never getting into debt to get all my ratings. I’ll continue to work until I get picked up by military AD or the Guard.
NoVisual3433@reddit
Hu
Accomplished-Tax5151@reddit
Apply in Sonoma county and Sacramento area there’s a few schools here hiring
Haunting-Creme-1157@reddit
"" This is in 47 states, almost every major city ... ""
Maybe, that is your problem ---- devote time to towns and stay away from cities
earthgreen10@reddit
just build time in cheap gliders that 80 bucks an hour lol
NuttPunch@reddit
Back in the day we used to walk uphill both ways in the snow to fly 18 hour days in a Navajo moving checks for the ball-crushing factory at $2.17/hr plus tip. At the end of the day we paid our boss for the service needed 7000 hours to get a look at by NutCrushing Regional. They put you in a simulator for the interview and I remember that instructor broke his clipboard because the F16 pilot going before me couldn’t do a V1 cut in the brasildo with a windshear recovery stapled on. We did triple occupancy motels too. Hiring is the best it’s ever been now. Soft hands brother soft hands.
RaidenMonster@reddit
You’re usually a douche I think but this is funny.
NuttPunch@reddit
I think you’re okay
masterbatee@reddit
I'm in the same boat. I've been applying for CFI/CFII nonstop since August for everywhere up here in the Chicago area. A lot of places aren't hiring or they only hire from within. It sucks but I'm trying to stay hopeful. If anyone knows a place hiring CFI/CFII in the Chicago/Northern IL area please lmk lols
Strict-Armadillo-273@reddit
Go work line service to stay afloat and fly on the weekends. Maybe you’ll meet the right person for a corporate gig.
Diligent-Tap-7611@reddit
Buy a plane and start your own business, airlines aren't the only career option for flying. You could buy a C182 or a larger plane, work out an agreement with an airport, and start a skydiving operation, skydiving instructors are easy to find and people are always gonna be willing to pay to jump out of a plane. When you're not jumping, you could ferry freight if you had a larger plane. Buy a crop duster, get a pesticide license, and learn how to spray. Buy something to do aerial mapping/surveying and start doing that.
Where you've got skills but no opportunity, make your own. Any of these could be a more lucrative business than being an airline pilot if you're willing to hustle and take some risks.
Bigjeem@reddit
Get in with a flying club. You don’t need to be “hired”, once you’re in you can then instruct other members in the club plane. As long as you’re not a dick then people will pick you. You won’t get a steady salary but if you’re in an active area you can be pretty busy.
Meani123@reddit
And this is why I never took any loans to become a pilot and I'm glad I kept my non pilot job skills up. All my mentors told me to have something to fall back on if I lost my medical or the industry changed.
LivingOk656@reddit
I just got an Instructor job as a brand newly minted CFI. What worked for me was networking, talking to people and recruiting students that were happy with their schools.
I then approached the school I wanted to instruct for and let them know I had 3 students ready to go, I just needed a flight school that would allow me to instruct in their planes. I told them they didn’t need to give me any students and that got me hired.
I’m now instructing and started teaching a student that just walked in and nobody else was around so I did end up getting a student from them. Give it a try!
TRex_N_Truex@reddit
I couldn't find a full time flying gig from Spring of 2010 to the Fall of 2012. Shotgunned my resume like you did all over the place to anyone with an address including places that aren't flight schools. It sucks, but also it be like that sometimes. You gotta do something to keep yourself in the aviation system. My savior was a line service job. Flash forward to today I'm in the left seat at a legacy.
Due-Value506@reddit
Could roll the dice like me and go into a LE agency with an air ops and try to snag a spot to build time. My agency has a fleet of 206's. They'll take anyone but preference points for rated pilots. It's a gamble because you might not get picked up then get stuck on the road.
IMainMeg@reddit
Not sure if you’ve looked into pipeline patrol. Pretty rough job that’ll usually take anyone, especially with your credentials.
Accomplished_Phone39@reddit
Yeah I saw a post by a girl asking for interview advice for American Patrols flying a 172. They contacted her a year after she put in her application.
RutabagaBitter8165@reddit
I got invited to interview. Then they didn't end up picking me for 2nd round.
JJ-_-@reddit
I've never run a flight school so obviously I don't know about all the logistics that goes into running one, but at least from my perspective as a student, my previous flight school had a student wait-list of about 3-4 months? I had to wait about 4 months before they called me and told me they now have an instructor available to start my PPL training. When I started, aircraft availability wasn't an issue at all; in fact, I could pretty much schedule whenever I wanted and there would be a plane available. Some planes didn't even have flights scheduled all day.
So if there's a waitlist for new students, and aircraft availability isn't an issue, what other bottleneck could there be aside from a shortage of instructors? I'm just giving this perspective from purely what I observed at my previous flight school that I did my PPL at; just thought it would be interesting to mention.
B1rdTheWord@reddit
Really sorry to hear this man. But don’t give up. Maybe focus on something else for a while, but don’t stop being proficient. It sounds like you’re prepared. So just make sure you remain prepared for when the opportunity you’re looking for comes up. I’ll be praying for you.
2015Eh8@reddit
Things are shifting. By the end of the year things will start moving again.
kaa8492@reddit
Its a hard time of year for hiring come march or April yoy will hear from someone. Hang in there you got this. CFIs are in need everywhere its the slow season.
PlejarenGraham@reddit
There's a new sheriff in town at the white house. Give it one more month.
grandoctopus64@reddit
brother I don't know if you've seen the news recently, but this has been a DISASTEROUS month for aviation and I would not be throwing my chips in with "new president therefore aviation business better"😂😂
Disastrous_Cup_3051@reddit
Hey try applying for (Phoenix east aviation) Daytona beach (KDAB) PEA. I know they mostly hire in house graduates but they also hire sometimes people form outside and considering your experience i think they are gonna hire you !! I used to work there btw
Cautious-Raisin-4321@reddit
It’s closed already
Heavymetal122@reddit
I just talked to an instructor from PEA Daytona and they had over 100+ people that got their CFI ratings and only 20 were hired in the last application window. Plus all those people were in house.
Redbob73@reddit
What did you think about working there?
BenRed2006@reddit
Alternatively I think riddle is also hiring if that’s something you want to do
Head_Visit849@reddit
Riddle will NOT hire from outside especially rn
SlipSeparate5211@reddit
I would disagree, I talked to one yesterday who hasn’t done anything at riddle, getting hired.
Agitated-Bake-1231@reddit
That is straight up not true. Several of the people in worked with at riddle were not riddle graduates.
EagleE4@reddit
Airlines aren’t hiring either
Low-Yak6705@reddit
if you have more experience then me and can’t find a job and I have 0 dual given and less than 250 hours as a CFI-CFII.. imma quit with you
Drew-Blankenship@reddit
On another note 200 hours dual given with 6 checkrides that’s pretty crazy how does that work
NuttPunch@reddit
Checkrides only consider the final signature. Take a bunch of students 99% done then sign them off. Boom you’ve just passed 6 people.
WhiteoutDota@reddit
Yep. I've got 200 dual with 0 checkrides because I literally only get students with 0 experience lmao
HolidayWilling7716@reddit
There is always someone hiring for cfi. Sounds like you’ve been using the “cold calling” job hunting method, which is classic yet notoriously difficult which can lead to discouragement, as you have learned. Also, know that the “I give up” feeling is a part of it, so there’s that. Just make sure giving up is really the correct choice for you before you do. Giving up is not “giving up” if the thing is truly not good for you.
It helps to know where/how to look. One of if not the top places to look is the climbto350.com website (aka, “the orange site”). If you’re not already aware of it, you need to head over there immediately and get cracking. A quick glance at it shows there are postings as recently as February 10th for cfi’s. For example:
Feb 10, 2025: F/T & P/T Flight Instructors ($25-$30/hr - New Jersey
Feb 09, 2025: Part 141 Flight Instructors ($35/hr) - Maryland
Feb 09, 2025: Chief Flight Instructor ($65k) - Maryland
I found most if not all of my entry-level jobs over there. And it’s not just that, you can potentially find your career job there as well. There are others like this, like planejobs.com, but this one, for at least the past 30 years has been a top resource.
If you’re just building time and don’t care how, don’t tunnel vision on cfi. There are a lot of other ways. Banner towing, pipeline patrol, traffic reporting, small/midsize freight companies, the list goes on.
Also, you must be flexible, especially in the beginning. You can’t be picky and arrogant about it (ex. the “this/that is beneath me”, “I’m not going way out there”, etc. kind of attitudes). This profession will spit you out like that, as you are experiencing right now. You are REQUIRED to be willing to go wherever you need to to get what you need to get. Within reason, legality, and morality obviously, but hopefully you get the point.
Somebody should have told you that getting into this can and will most likely suck in the beginning, but it will get better and will be worth it, so long as YOU don’t fuck yourself along the way (aside from medical stuff which is sometimes not your fault but again, you should get the point).
You may have to eat ramen for awhile. You may have to goto timbuktu for awhile. You may lose people along the way. Sacrifices will be made. Hard times and hard decisions will come. Just like anything else, certain levels of a thing is not for everyone, and you have to understand what a thing comes with and make your decision.
Ok this is long enough for now. Hope you made it this far and hope this helps!
LibrarianUsed4126@reddit
I am working on this problem right now! There is not enough CFI jobs to get everyone the hours needed. About 90% of the young pilots are blocked by regulations and insurance companies. I am preparing a complaint to the Aviation Sub-Committee to reverse the 1500 hour rule, and the 1000 rule that the insurance companies are imposing for you to get a Part 91 or Part 135 job! Bet you didn’t know about that one! You can see my articles at AviatorsMarket.com just search Riter and download article under documents. I have one article about doing sightseeing tours that might be helpful for you to build time. It is under the “Whale Watching-Pilots-One With Nature.” You can also watch the video at YouTube under Capt.Robert”ThatGuy”Riter.
No one is fighting for you new pilots! I have had a 30 year career as a CFI and Corporate pilot. Please contact me if you want to start fighting for your future. Right now you are totally DUCKED!
God Bless! Keep Flying Speed!
Captain Robert “That Guy” Riter
ozzies_35_cats@reddit
The reason pay is so good now is BECAUSE of the 1500 hr rule. I remember being pissed about too, but then I pulled up my pants and went and grinded / hustled to get my 1500. There are no shortcuts without consequences in this profession.
LibrarianUsed4126@reddit
This is what I have been seeing from us older pilots. No concern for the new guys! For all those trying to earn a career in aviation let this guy be an example. NO ONE CARES! It is up to you to fight for your flying job! Doing approaches, short fields, and trying to build hours is useless to about 90%. The FAA has set regulations which makes going forward impossible, and no one is telling you guys. My heart goes out to our student pilots!
ozzies_35_cats@reddit
First off, don't assume the "older" pilots don't care, that's far from the truth, but it should be a wake up call. This profession will eat you up if you don't have a thick skin and some moxy. There is hardship to balance the pure awesomeness of getting paid to fly jets. Would it be so awesome if every Tom, Dick, and Sally were handed a set of wings and an airbus type rating? No, because I appreciate that when I show up to the jet, my FO had to bust their ass just like I did. I applied to over a 100 jobs when I was time building, I think I heard back from maybe 5. I will agree to an extent to one of your points, though I'd phrase it differently, It's not that no one cares, but no one owes you a job. Yeah it sounds cliche, but you need to struggle a bit to appreciate when you've made it. A majority of the pilots I have hated flying with were for 1 of 3 catergories:
1: Terrible attitude
2: Shit pilot and they didn't know it, or blamed everyone but themselves.
3: And to todays point, entitled pilots. Mom & Dad paid for a nice 141 college, got their 1,000 R-ATP, had a guaranteed instructor job at their school, then went right to a regional. They've never had to struggle for a flying job a day in their lives, and it comes through in how they conduct themselves on the flight deck. No, give me an average pilot who walked through fire to get to that seat and stuck with the grind. We'll have a helluva 3 day trip together because we both know how much worse it could have & HAS been.
Ok, that's the negative if I'm reading you correctly, now the positive, or the "cares" part.
1 word, NETWORK. Do you know how many jobs are out there but never get posted, because someone knows someone who would be a perfect fit? A lot. Go get involved in your local EAA chapter, Pilots-n-Paws (I really enjoyed these flights), skydiving, survey, etc. Go hang around the airport, knock on doors. An email is easy to send, but a guy taking the time to drive out and knock on my door (during appropriate business hours of course) means they really give a damn. Yes, the industry has evolved, and the low time building jobs aren't as prevalent, so you need to get creative. OP said they've checked 47 states, I assume that means they're willing to move, that's a good thing. I', about 4 years behind in my career track because I had a family and couldn't move, if you're flexible, go where the jobs are. With all the different types of aircraft on OP's list, he/she should have a leg up on most of their peers. I got my PPL in a Cirrus, I was the only person who had Cirrus time when a Chicago to California ferry came up in a facebook group I was in. Guess who got the gig? Because of that, I got more ferry's in the standard Cessna's / Pipers. This isn't rocket science, but it seems like the current generation saw the insane movement at all the levels of the airlines over the last 5 years, and someone thinks that's standard. I promise you it's not. What you're experiencing WAS the standard pre-2017.
Is it easy to sit there and say us current legacy guys don't get it? Maybe. But what I can tell you is that no one on this planet knows just how insanely lucky I am to be where I am than myself. This industry is so much pure dumb luck and timing, you just need to position yourself to take advantage of the opportunity when it actually arises.
Good luck.
LibrarianUsed4126@reddit
I agree with many of your points. However, no one is fighting for the new guys. I have spent my 30 year career in aviation running a flight school, being a A&P, and as a corporate pilot. Since you are with the airlines you have been shielded by most of the corruption that is going on right now. These new kids are taking out 100K to 200K to go to flight school, with student loans that will follow them for the rest of their lives, and no chance of a job when they graduate with less then 300 hours. I am writing an article now about the corruption we have with the FAA check ride process. Another one of the FAA and NTSB unchecked criminal behavior. Filing two criminal complaints with the Dept. Of Transportation Inspectors General Office; and with the Aviation Sub-Committee. You and many of the pilots in the left seat have not be around a flight school or student pilot in decades! How could you even know about their hardships that we did not face? We are having planes fall out of the sky, we are losing flight crews and passengers, and livelihoods ruined. Please view and comment on my YouTube videos. I appreciate your interest, and perspective. I find it boring to talk with someone that agrees with me! Let me know why I am wrong.
freeflyguy66@reddit
I very much appreciate, and feel the pain of your dilemma. I am a veteran CFI, and have sent well over 100 applicants on check rides with only two failures, (they were both hand-me-downs from other instructors, so badly damaged, they could not be saved). I've been flying since 1991, and absolutely love to teach. There have been rich, prosperous years, followed by dry spells where I just wanted to throw in the towel. Ultimately, I bought my own Light Sport Aircraft to teach in, and since it's a TAA, (Technologically Advanced Aircraft), I can do commercial ratings in it, as well as Sport and Private. It is a Sling 2, which burns four gallons of mo-gas an hour, and is super cheap to maintain, (making it an affordable business tool). The hiring frenzy of the last five years is over, and has put the entire industry in a drought which will likely last a few years. I am starving for students, but the nice thing about running your own business, is you take in 100% of the revenue, unlike a school which pays you 25% of client invoices. If you can manage it, and you are serious about instructing, I would highly recommend going into business for yourself. You can check out my website www.verticalaviation.org if you're interested in how I operate. Either way, good luck to you! Cheers!
airplaneguy51@reddit
Try Box Aviation. In Montgomery Alabama. I got my PPL there. They seem to always be looking for CFI's. Eric Box is the owner. He is a really good guy. Box Aviation, Inc. (334) 281-9005
https://g.co/kgs/urh147V
Reputation_Many@reddit
Well, it could be like the early to mid 2000s where flying instructors would rent airplanes and find their own students. If you do that, make sure you get insurance.
Good luck. FYI, you probably have enough time to start looking at part 135 jobs also And try to get 25 hours of multi. That’s a big insurance hurdle for a lot of places.
Medium-Flan-7247@reddit
Lift Academy in Indy is hiring
McDrummerSLR@reddit
You’re not becoming a CFI to build time. You’re becoming a CFI to teach people how to fly. You have to make sure you get that straight because no one wants a CFI that only cares about time building. Whatever you do, don’t step away yet. You’re gonna have a helluva time getting on with an airline if there’s a gap in your flying.
nicksandro32@reddit
Hey man, best wishes in your time building endeavors. It's a predicament everyone and their mother who's a part of this whole thing is up against at the present.
FYI, just make sure when you go into instructing that your sole reason for being there isn't to get hours to go to an airline. There's some questionable ethics in that very last question of your vent session... Just remember who's paying thousands of dollars to be there and actually learn something. Not saying you won't be a quality instructor, but don't make getting to an airline your number one reason for showing up to work as an instructor either.
The industry has its ebbs and flows and it's only customary that every pilot pays their dues at some point. There's a few folks in my family who do this job and they've all been there, and they're doing just fine now. Don't get lost comparing yourself to others in this line of work; that's poisonous. It'll get better. Best of luck.
Rustybob48@reddit
Your hours sound kind of low to me. A buddy of mine was recently hired as a first officer bySkywest. But he had more than double your flying hours when he applied then they hired him contingent on him completing a total time of, I think it was 1350 hours by a certain date at which he went to work for them. He flew the extra time he needed in my RV 12.
Several-Pressure9492@reddit
Contact pilot smith in Green Bay.
Orca36@reddit
In LA it looks like Santa Monica flyers is looking for a Cfi , USaeroclub, and Aviators flight academy.
Would4e@reddit
I had accrued about 1000 hours of instructor time when I was working toward my ATP and yet I never had a job working as a flight instructor. I worked as an independent contractor and found my own clients through networking and a little local advertising. I showed up at pilot group meetings and airports and shook hands. I left my business card on bulletin boards at FBOs. This was over 30 years ago when the airlines were furloughing and hiring was scarce. I had a non flying part time job where I learned additional valuable experience but I was flying and building time regularly. The experience I learned taught me how to run my own business and now I own a small flight school and a charter company. My flight instructors are all independent contractors who find their own students. I only provide the plane.
Sometimes you just have to think outside the box when the easy route no longer presents itself.
Paul_in_TX@reddit
Find someone that'll rent you an airplane ot instruct in and just freelance. My first instructor was that way and I have two different friends right now that instruct in the same manner. Have the students get renter's insurance and you get a liability only policy for yourself and you're golden. The entire market is soft right now including aircraft sales so it's going to be tough for a while. Just a suggestion, maybe consider survey or pipeline work. There's a few larger operations that would take you on a 6-12 month contract where you man-camp it or effectively live in hotels for 6-12 months. You'll get 1,000 hours and make a bit of cash, but if you have wife/kids, it's gonna suck because you'll see 'em 1-2 days/month if you're lucky.
PlentyNew8479@reddit
I know of one that definitely needs CFIs, I don’t know if they’re actually hiring but they need more.
Taildragger789@reddit
Try banner towing
Picklemerick23@reddit
Homeboy abandoned this post pretty darn quick.
DogeLikestheStock@reddit
Good for him. The only thing worse than a departure post is when the OP continues whining on it for days. He said he was fed up, explained why, listed the qualifications, and actually stfu after.
setthrustpositive@reddit
Some things to consider:
Your local area flying clubs. Having an in house CFI/CFII is a great feature.
CAP is ALWAYS short instructors especially CFII. Yes there's some pomp and circumstance involved, but you'd be in high demand.
Type training. You mentioned 337 and TW. Have you reached out on the FB groups for the respective aircraft and go to the owners?
Small 135. You should be able to make SIC on B200 or PC12 without issue.
Wiggins and Ameriflight? Yes its cargo.
There's many doors open in aviation. Some open to rooms, other to hallways.
VileInventor@reddit
i’m like atleast 50% sure your resume has to look like ass if this is 400 emails. because that’s insane
Dry-Horror-4188@reddit
After searching for a flight instructor for about a year to do my IPC I finally found one. How I came across him was a fluke. I was pulling my bird out of my tie down to go fly when he and another pilot taxied by to tie down as well. We got to talking while securing he was securing his plane and not knowing anything about him, I mentioned that I needed to find a CFII to do an IPC with me. As I was climbing into my Piper he walked up, gave me his card and said he would be happy to help me. I reached out to him a few days later and off we started working together.
My suggestion is to hang around airports, talk to people, go talk to IA's and let them know you are looking for students. Just don't go to flight schools try everything. I am in the business of sales, and I have to find business, you are too, the only difference is your business is finding students, and mine is selling insurance. The process is the same.
I would even go as far and write a plan to find students. Hang out in FBOs, Terminals areas at airports, join local pilot associations and attend meetings. Do not volunteer you are new, just hone your craft, gather knowledge and share that knowledge. When you train, just don't pull out an FAR AIM and train out of that, but develop lesson plans.
Don't give up, but find a way to offer your knowledge, experience and training. If you do this, you will be surprised at how much business you will get, and you will end up at a flight school.
branda22@reddit
Airline hiring is slowing starting to pick up again, regionals are getting through the backlog. Don't give up yet you will find something soon.
amolybdenum@reddit
Buy a cheap experimental and boost those hours. I owned insured and hangared a plane for less than 500/mo. in 2022. 15k buy in but you can do it for way less if you're brave. You learn more about airplanes owning one that you ever will instructing. Right now your just a guy that can handle a stick.
ne0tas@reddit
Theyre a cfi they can't afford that
zcar28@reddit
Have you tried posting to your local FB flying groups and offering your services? I was an independent CFI for awhile and had more work than I could handle instructing in personally owned planes. Everything from rusty IFR pilots, bi-annuals, to more certs.
Once I started working with one plane owner they’d recommend to another plane owner buddy and my work expanded fairly quickly.
CapitalDifficultt@reddit
Dm me I know a good time build place that would take you in an instant especially with MEI.
Choi0706@reddit
I saw an ad for cfi hiring at my school.
Lexford@reddit
Not that it solves your problem, but know you’re not alone. I got my CFI in September and CFII in December, and despite working at a flight school/FBO for the last year and a half, I don’t have a job either. The school I’m at is relatively large and successful, but none of the instructors at 1500+ hours are leaving. I’ve also applied at every other school in a 50 NM radius, as well as some out of state.
In the meantime, I’ve been deicing airplanes at my local class bravo. Not where I want to be right now of course, but it’s something for now. There was a thread the other day talking about people who were flight instructing in 2008, and reading those stories made me feel a little better about the state of the industry.
Keep grinding man - it will pay off in the end 👊
(i hope 😭)
Medical_Landscape657@reddit
I suspect that schools give priority to flight instructors who are students needing the money to continue paying that school for more advanced certificates. My theory is why pay some pilot that gives me nothing in return while I can hire one of my advanced students who need help paying for one of my courses. Maybe you can negotiate with a school to take one of their advance courses if they can help you pay for it buy hiring you as a flight instructor.
GrandCompetition581@reddit
It’s the cost of flight instruction, plane rental, maintenance of the aircraft,etc.
dragonfly-2021@reddit
Did you try to speak with Jim, the owner of executive flight school in wheeling illinois (outside Chicago)?
No-Program-5539@reddit
It may begin to pick up soon. Regionals have been starting to hire more again so more CFI’s will be leaving their jobs.
Lazy-Sun8857@reddit
Keep knocking man. It’s all about timing… go back to the ones you already went to and be that squeaky wheel… the second you walk out of there they have forgotten about you and the next guy that comes in when they need someone is the one they take. Stay proficient as much as you can, teach on the side and try to find independent owners of planes to do training and flight reviews. If you are good and get this going word spreads of you and you can actually stay decently busy part time instructing these type of guys. We all have that feeling though, even as we start applying to the airlines that aren’t hiring right now. we will all get there one day just on different timelines with a little luck, determination, and patience
Ill_Plastic906@reddit
Shoot me a dm. My school is hiring CFII and up, and you’d be a solid candidate for the couple spots we have.
LRJetCowboy@reddit
It’s a ‘boom-bust’ industry. Believe it, or not, it will probably get worse before it gets better. I recall several of these periods over the course of my career. There was a point where I had 3500 hours and couldn’t get into the right seat of anything, period. I drove a truck and sold firewood, wasn’t so bad.
Altruistic-Cod1330@reddit
This is correct. If history is an indicator, this is far from the worst place we can be. This is pretty normal.
cuttawhiske@reddit
If you want it to hurt go to southern airways express.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
I’ve wondered what the hiring environment looks like there right now, is the wet CPL with multi still have a chance to get hired if someone writes a LOR?
Jumpy_Title_928@reddit
Not hiring. Had to lay off 40 pilots about two months ago.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
Figured as much, the atrocious MX situation grounding the fleet probably didn’t help
FitInterview7875@reddit
Ha, dude life is gonna be rough for you if you hit a rough patch and just give up like that.
AlexRed-Knight@reddit
Here embry diddy was telling they’ll sponsor my H1B
YaaniMani@reddit
Have you checked out Facebook? I see flight schools post on Facebook every week or so looking for CFIs
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
Are you in a group for this? Where are you seeing these posts at? Thanks
YaaniMani@reddit
Yep, I’m in several groups including Airplanes and Coffee, CFI Jobs Page, SoCal aviators, etc. I saw one last week from a school in New Mexico looking for CFIs. I see posts like this every week. They probably got a lot of applications after posting on Facebook but the jobs are out there.
Throwawayyacc22@reddit
Oh man, fellow A&C member, I have to take that group in very small doses.
Check out “student pilot community” I’m a long term member there and that group needs more good CFIs chiming in, good group, never see politics there or any of that junk
Thanks for the recommendations, I’ll join them, passed my IRA and FII yesterday so I need to be a CFII within 24 months
YaaniMani@reddit
Thanks for the recommendation!
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit
Don’t give up. Keep trying. There has to be someone somewhere. You are nearly halfway through your journey. Giving up isn’t an option. Journey of a pilot may not be easy. But one day you will remember this day and feel proud of yourself.
Forsaken_Guava_4837@reddit
That’s crazy to believe. I’m working on my CFI and I got two offers already, although I know people working inside those two flight schools.
Fight_Or_Flight_FL@reddit
I couldn't find squat either so I gave up actively looking. I decided to do some charity kids flying events and the CFI opportunities grew after that. Rent a plane, volunteer to fly civil air patrol kids, local EAA chapter, any school or organization that takes kids up, Angel Flights , pilot n paws, etc. Most of these groups have pilot message boards and you can connect with people there to put your name out there. Go to the local schools and say "hey I have a friend that wants to learn to fly but I'm not currently working at a school. Can I teach him/her through your school, can use your classrooms to teach grounds, etc?" (Don't lie, find someone with real interest.) I tried that one, sort of worked because through doing short & long volunteer flights I kept getting so many folks interested in flying connected to my name at a club. Worked at that club briefly until their plane broke down for good.
Later I landed my current CFI job when one of my previous CFIs (only flew 3 hours for an insurance check out 6 years ago) from years past noticed me flying a lot and I told him I'm looking for a CFI job. He offered me a job albeit months later.
Long story short, to get hired as a CFI the employer has to have some trust in you and so the key is to find ways to make friends or establish a relationship somehow.
Educational_Case_134@reddit
And that is a perfect example of the proximity principle. Great book, more pilots should read it.
dking8519@reddit
Yet so many small clubs struggle to find CFII for their members. I'd say go talk to local clubs, see if they need anyone. They may not hire you because they are not an employer, and it may not produce steady work but I know I struggle to find CFI's that are checked out for the clubs I'm in.
RhubarbExcellent7008@reddit
I have a question from an observation…within these forums, the sheer mass of new pilots appears anecdotally to be incredibly high. But the published FAA numbers don’t bear this out. There’s still only around 150,000 +- pilot jobs. Between Commercial and ATP the total number is about 285,000 (with 179,000 of that holding ATP certificates). Of course, retirement attrition will always continue at a modest rate. I hear a lot of anecdote but I don’t think the statistics are as egregious as Reddit posts would suggest. At the end of the day, it’s a small industry (the flying part at least) with a high cost of entry.
Dependent-Place-4795@reddit
It’s bad out there actually
flyby2412@reddit
cmp?
flyingPhi129@reddit
Have you looked at Western Michigan University out of BTL. Last time I heard is they need CFI
Numerous_Mixture9686@reddit
This isn’t an airport, no need to announce your departure.
zero_xmas_valentine@reddit
Haha look Mom I'm so funny and smart
Redfish680@reddit
You’ll let us know if you need anything or have any questions, right? /s
redditdawg11@reddit
No need to be a douche.
Shot_Astronaut_9894@reddit
This overused, extra cringe comment is even more cringey at a flying sub where you'd think the averger Redditor would understand you don't need to announce your departure from the majority of the airports on the planet.
NearPeerAdversary@reddit
They're venting. Reddit is for sharing thoughts, giving and receiving advice, and venting. Also for snarky douchey replies.
skaskeski@reddit
I know a few always hiring in STL. One of the hen being a old employer. Hit me up in the DMs
GoHomePig@reddit
I know what it's like to have that CFI rating and not be able to use it as much as you want. I got mine in the late 2000s. Furloughed regional guys were instructing at my school because they had history there.
My point is just because you have that CFI doesn't mean you need to use it. Find other ways to build time and get paid to do it. I did pretty much everything short of being a jump pilot. It's a slog but an hour is an hour. Try to have fun. Good luck.
Joecoolio123@reddit
It’s not just cfi jobs. I got laid off in November and is still trying to find a job….. nobody is hiring anywhere for any jobs at the moment.
someguyinbend@reddit
Hit up North Dakota. Don’t give up. Keep flying, and stay off Reddit. It’s an anxiety factory that you can do without. Try to fine sim trainer jobs, Border patrol (they are hiring and waiver hours if CFI) or skydiving gigs (most need 500 PIC). Don’t give up. And again, stay off Reddit.
Dependent-Place-4795@reddit
Border patrol still requires you to get the hours eventually and they cannot waiver anyone down to 600 hours.
Ok-Letterhead4110@reddit
What about flying for skydivers?
KitchenTomatillo3390@reddit
It took me just under 2 years after finishing CFI and CFII to land my first instructing job. It was super frustrating but persistence eventually paid off. To make ends meet I took a job outside of aviation (went to college for a non-aviation degree as a backup which helped me there). Joining a flying club allowed me to stay proficient and build experience.
I’ve now worked as a CFI “full-time” for 2.5 years. I absolutely love the work but the pay is terrible and it’s not a career in most cases. After passing R-ATP minimums ~8 months ago it’s crickets on the apps for anything that could be considered a career. Very reminiscent of hunting for my first CFI job.
Two things keep me showing up to the flight school 6 days a week, 1) I enjoy flying and flight instruction infinitely more than I did working my desk job, even if that means a big pay cut and scraping by for a while, and 2) Experience opens doors. If nobody wants to hire you, it’s because someone with more experience is an option. Experience is not necessarily directly related to flying either. What drew interest in my application for my first CFI gig was volunteer work I did throughout high school and college for a cause the owner of the flight school was very passionate about. The flight schools I work for now were comparatively easy to get into once I had a fair bit of instruction experience under my belt.
The volatility of this industry is not for everyone. If it is something you’re truly passionate about doing don’t give up. Find a way to continue to make yourself more marketable. I had unrealistic expectations when I finished training that I could find a job with the experience that I had fresh out of flight school, which was the bare minimum. As others have pointed out the past several years were an absolute anomaly with the market and getting hired for anything with bare minimum experience is not likely.
On the same note I like to think I have a better shot at a callback over my peers who called it quits as soon as they hit 1,500 and stopped flying to “wait out the slump”. Take a job that’s not flying if that’s what it takes to keep flying, but keep flying.
the1stAviator@reddit
Many schools won't hire those who just want to build hours. It means a constant turnover of staff which no employer likes. They want instructors, not hour builders.
grizzleeadam@reddit
Do you put all those types on your resume? Point being, I would hope you tailor that down to the aircraft specific to where’s you are applying. As a person who has been in a role hiring instructors in the past, that many types listed all at once screams to me somebody claiming to be more experienced than reality would present.
That being said, send me a DM if you’re that serious about moving for a gig.
de_rats_2004_crzy@reddit
I think you sound like a great applicant on paper. I really wish you good luck. Hope the lead in the second comment leads to something
KindaJaded@reddit
I would pick up a job to pay off your debt. Flying will happen at some point, but what you don’t want to do is not work in any form. Long employment gaps aren’t really a good thing.
MeatServo1@reddit
Squadron 2 at KRHV is a club and has a fleet of 172s and 140/160s. You get checked out and can just add yourself to the roster as a CFI. San Jose is crazy expensive, but that model isn’t unique. Are there any clubs around you? I think there’s on at Mather and another at Sacramento Executive?
kickerador@reddit
I’m one of SQ2s main 141 cfis. What you said is true, you can get added to the cfi list as long as you have an instructor certificate. However, that means you’re limited to people you bring in yourself or find standing around looking for somebody to talk too. You won’t be given any students. Most of the 141 CFIs are people who did their training in house tho.
MeatServo1@reddit
Yeah, clubs are weird in that you can’t advertise being a CFI to the public, you can only tell people in the club. Otherwise, it’s just a normal part 61 school. Never really liked the structure because if shifts all the liability and risk to the CFI since the CFI is a club member who can do instruction instead of an employee. But if the choice was not flying at all or being a club CFI, then it wouldn’t really be a choice.
sjxjuyuyeyeheb@reddit
How much time PT-17?
old_flying_fart@reddit
…….C337…….
There‘s your problem. You’ve demonstrated awful taste in planes.
jk, and good luck.
- former C337 owner
solylunaverde@reddit
Infinity flight group NJ
Aerodynamic_Soda_Can@reddit
How many actual interviews? I'm gonna bet your resume needs work. Seems to be a big problem in the industry at the moment. My boss seems to spend a lot of time making fun of them.
General174512@reddit
Hiring should pick up eventually. Alternatively, you could go with another GA job like a scenic pilot or jump pilot or something like that. CFI is not the only way to get a lot of hours, it's just the quickest.
MasterPain-BornAgain@reddit
Just find some freelance gigs. You can't change the market.
aRealTattoo@reddit
Real talk, my CFII has a construction company on the side. My old CFI had a waiter job on the side.
The market hurts right now in almost every industry, but aviation is super down from what I’ve seen. From service to piloting, they’re all hurting.
Even A&P work isn’t paying what it used to in my experience as I’ve been doing it for nearly 6 or so years, but dudes in my area are getting paid almost $5 less than when I got hired on.
dat_empennage@reddit
Are there any flying clubs near you that you can get affiliated with? Might be able to pick up a side job and get a handful of hours a month while you wait to get picked up by a flight school. You mentioned time in Cirrus- did you get your CSIP? Might be good for differentiation and get you in there door at schools that fly them.
wupu@reddit
Sorry it sucks. If you're looking for freelance work, post something about where you're located (e g. zip code) and maybe us lowly part 61 folks can pay you to fly around in some clapped out planes. It's often hard for us to find CFIs.
InterceptorBJJ@reddit
I feel you mate. Don't listen to half the guys here. This industry is brutal. You only hear of the guys that make it so they are very biased.
It took me years to find a start and when I did COVID hit. 3 years later I did end up finding another job but it's not much better as an instructor with the low pay and BS you have to put up with on a daily basis.
And all for maybe a chance of a better job or a possible regional gig. It's easy to get disillusioned and it's completely normal to be upset don't let any of these other pilots tell you otherwise or that your pain is not valid because they had it harder. Maybe take a break to recharge the batteries and reassess if you want to give it another shot. Nothing in this life is guaranteed.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Im writing this post just to vent.
I give up looking for a flight instructor job. After 400+ emails, applications, and in-person visits, and phone calls, not one place is hiring. This is in 47 states, almost every major city, and various size flight schools. I either get no response or not hiring (both in person and via email/phone call). This includes Florida, Arizona, and every other place people say to look. The only states I did not apply to are Alaska, Hawaii (too expensive), and North Dakota.
A little about me. CFI/CFII, working on MEI (though probably not for long because what's the point). 600 hours, spread across C172/172rg/182/182rg/180/206/210/310/337, PA28-161/181/28R, M20, BE76/A36, DA20/40/42, SR20/22/22t, T6, pt17/19/23, plus .5 in a p51 (birthday present). 200 hours dual given, 5/6 first time pass rate, TW, hp, cmp, g1000, avidyne entegra/r9, g5, and round dials.
Its ridiculous that almost every school I hear back from is not hiring. How is anyone supposed to build time to get to an airline.
Please downvote this comment until it collapses.
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