Boilermakingdude@reddit

Saab ♥️

I'm ready for my downvotes for use of an emoji.

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Legitimate_Ad6724@reddit

M52 has entered the chat.

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Glittering_Tie8361@reddit

The 2J isn't a V6 dawg

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ITYSTCOTFG42@reddit

I know. It's better.

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Glittering_Tie8361@reddit

2J is a great engine. But you're out of your element here Donnie, this is a post of V6 vs V8. Bringing up the straight 6 is discombobulating to the conversation being had.

Fun-Inflation-4429@reddit

yea v8 barra is a peice of shit and its an slow dumb and difficult to modify engine but the 6 is a fantastic peice of work, albeit heavy - very accessible, strong and reliable

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IlI-Erebear-IlI@reddit

The Barra also comes in the form of an inline 6.

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jaraldoe@reddit

Ya that’s the more well known one and why I said there is also a v8 known as the Barra.

KoalaOfTheApocalypse@reddit

I rarely read comments that long. Nice. It's like if Engineering Explained made an entire video in a reddit comment.

(+1 not /s)

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gregg1994@reddit

Optimal engine design also depends on what its being used for. Passenger cars need good fuel efficiency so they are designed around that. Where as drag cars need a lot of torque so they are usually large displacement engines with superchargers. Then you have f1 cars which use smaller displacement and high rpm to have high horsepower so they can go 200+mph.

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67valiant@reddit

No, none of that is correct. Optimal efficiency will deliver you more power for the amount of fuel you're using in every single case, that's why you have modern passenger cars making more power than some old muscle cars and use a quarter of the fuel, the efficiency just allows the engine to be smaller and still hit the power goal. Drag cars are generally always more powerful than anything else, a top fueller uses a supercharger and a 496ci V8 because that's what the class mandates but there is no shortage of small engine turbo cars and rotaries at the strip that hardly make much torque compared to a serious V8 but still run fast numbers. An F1 car uses the lightest engine they can because they need to turn corners, so they rev them as hard as they can to optimise the power for that weight. A serious drag car will piss all over the 200+mph an F1 car can do and get there much faster.

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KoalaOfTheApocalypse@reddit

Also mentioning neither F1 or top fuel have little durability concerns beyond that 4 seconds or 200 laps or whatever.

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Ryaktshun@reddit

Not necessarily. The Mercedes 12 has less friction points than a gm v8 due to displacement

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67valiant@reddit

So for a given capacity,

You must've skipped that part, and perhaps not understood what I was getting at

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Ryaktshun@reddit

Yea I’m not awake yet. Thanks for being easy on me

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BreakfastInBedlam@reddit

you gain efficiency by having less cylinders but bigger pistons. But, if the bore is too big you run into issues with how fast the flame travels

You also have to consider the cost of reversing all of that mass twice in each rotation. Smaller pistons = less inertia to overcome.

V12’s and V16’s do not make more power than V8’s of equal parameters. The V8 is the optimum engine architecture.

Straight (inline) 4’s are limited to 2L displacement w/o balance shafts, and straight sixes are limited to 3L displacement. Exceeding these displacement limits causes adverse vibration that lead to premature failure.

Things like overhead cam timing chains, multiple intake/exhaust valves, and balance shafts increase complexity while reducing reliability. V8’s and V12’s are the most inherently balanced designs.

Due to less mechanical complexity, the pushrod 90 degree V8 is the best theoretical design. Any other architecture is compromised by comparison, particularly in larger displacements.

Please spare me your diatribe based around Formula One engine design. They are not cost-effective nor reliable over multiple hundreds of thousands of miles. You can go really fast for a couple of hours if you’re lucky, but after that you’re either pushing the car or walking.

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Alive-Bid9086@reddit

V6s can easily outperform V8s.

Formula 1 uses 1.6L V6 engines producing 850 horsepower. The engines can spin 18krpm and suffer no balance issues.

Balance shafts are commonplace on larger inline 4 cylinder engines and some other less common configurations like V10 and V4.

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Think_Preference_611@reddit

Balance shafts use a negligible amount of power.

V8s are not perfectly balanced either.

Power is a function of displacement, revs and boost. A V6 will absolutely make the same power as a V8 of similar displacement and comparable internals.

Of course when you're comparing a 3l V6 to a 6l V8 it's not apples to apples.

Some of the fastest production cars are V6s. You can slap on as many turbos as you like on an old American pushrod V8 that without extensive internal modifications it will explode before it makes as much power as a GTR with a mild tune.

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SAEftw@reddit

The GT-R 3.8L twin-turbo V6 makes 149hp/L.

The GM LT7 5.5L twin-turbo V8 makes 193hp/L.

This is an apples to apples comparison.

Both of these can certainly be modded to produce more horsepower.

Please keep telling me V6’s are better than V8’s.

They’re not. Never were, never will be.

What are you going to do when Nissan shuts down?

Oh wait, I know the answer to this one:

Put an LS in it!

Fucking kids…

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Think_Preference_611@reddit

Do you know how old the GTR engine is now and how recent that GM V8 is (and how unlike 99.9% of American V8s ever made, it's basically a racing engine).

Apples to apples lmao

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Fun-Inflation-4429@reddit

"you cant boost any n/a engine without modifications" > "thats a lie. plenty of na engines you can boost" > "v8s dont need balance shafts this makes them better than v6s"

You missed the point of the comment u responded to.

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SAEftw@reddit

This is a discussion about V6’s and V8’s, not inline engines. They are not the same at all.

V8’s are far superior to V6’s in power and reliability given equal parameters (displacement, compression ratio, boost level, etc.).

V8’s are also superior to inline 4’s and 6’s of equal parameters.

There’s are very valid reason why all the American manufacturers shifted to V8’s in the 50’s. In terms of low cost power and reliability, they have no equal.

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Fun-Inflation-4429@reddit

"you cant boost any n/a engine without modifications" > "thats a lie. plenty of na engines you can boost" > "v8s dont need balance shafts this makes them better than v6s"

You missed the point of the comment u responded to.

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phasefournow@reddit

I remember when NASCAR had the early Busch Racing Series, restricted to V-6s....B-O-R-I-N-G!!!!!

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hopelesspostdoc@reddit

Inline 6 is balanced though.

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SAEftw@reddit

Only at low engine speeds or displacements below 3L. If it offered superior performance to the V8, we would never have had V8’s.

The inline six is cheaper to mass-produce. This is why they are ubiquitous in automotive history. It is good for what it is, but V8’s are so much better that the entire US auto industry shifted to them after WWII.

This has nothing to do with displacement.

“Equal Parameters”

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CadillacAllante@reddit

14psi in a 2560r on the same engine is roughly 270hp

14psi in a 6758 on the same engine is I think in the 300 range.

So why is the power the engine putting out different while at the same boost pressure? Because of CFM. Saying "14psi is roughly double the power" is a pretty idiotic statement to make.

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No-Explanation1034@reddit

Without context, it means peak boost, not jack shit. It's a reference to the maximum increase in intake pressure over atmosphere, at the top of the powerband. Have you never worked on cars, or what?

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skylinesora@reddit

I guess you're part of the peanut gallery that likes to say the word 'psi' all confidently and not know what they are talking about.

If i tell you i'm making 12psi in a miata. How much hp am I making and when? Of course, you wouldn't be able to make any kind of accurate guess. 12psi in a 2554r is like 210hp while 12psi in a efr6258 can be in the 300+ hp range.

Now let's switch it up again. 12psi with a 2554r in a K24 is much different than 12psi in a miata bp engine. Why? Because one head flows much better than the other.

So now let's go back to it. How does knowing peak boost matter? It doesn't without further context.

Then you said " If the engine can handle 8psi from one, it will take it from another" which is not true. You can take 8psi from a 2554 and safely make 190hp. You can take 8psi from a efr6758 on the same engine and be close to throwing rods.

You seem to kind of understand the concept, but don't fully grasp it.

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No-Explanation1034@reddit

I grasp it just fine. You guys are saying psi is a useless metric, then go on to describe why differences in cfm matter, while calling it psi. They are different things. 8psi in a 20mm pipe is going to be way less cfm than 8psi in a 40mm pipe. The VOLUME of air is where your extra power comes from, not the pressure. Psi is a reference to how much PRESSURE. I've been wrenching on forced induction cars for 20+yrs. Saying psi is a useless metric, then talking about volume without even knowing it, is dumb as hell. How much pressure can a given engine handle? That can be given a value, in psi. Go back to school.

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skylinesora@reddit

Giving psi without additional context is useless, as I repeated numerous times.

To make it simple for you. “I’m making 12 psi on my engine”. What does that tell you? Basically nothing except for the number 12psi

That’s why it’s useless when people say “I make 12psi on my engine”.

You don’t know the turbo to know how much air is being moved and to gauge how much hp they’re making and when/where the power is being made.

You don’t know the engine to know how how efficient the design might be.

You can't boost any n/an engine without major modifications.

See my other post. Minus a cam I made no internal Modifications to a Volvo B230F with 10.5 -1 compression and ran it at 18-20 psi.

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Nousername2019@reddit

Been a while since I thought about a b230f+t. What was nice there was being able to just strip the ecu/injectors/manifold/downpipe etc off the parts car. Most engines aren’t red block strength anymore. Heck we once put a 50shot on a B21f and just wired to cold start injector to activate with the same button.

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Lay-Me-To-Rest@reddit

Volvo 4 bangers are a different breed, but I meant things like a custom exhaust manifold, ECM tune, intake, and in your case a cam, which is a fair amount of effort and requires some know-how.

But a lot of modern engines are so high compression that you need to modify the bottom end to boost them.

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Cranks_No_Start@reddit

a cam, which is a fair amount of effort and requires some know-how.

I swapped out the cam over lunch 1 day. It took about 40 minutes leaving me plenty of time to eat.

NGL it made a world of difference and was a blast to drive.

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Lay-Me-To-Rest@reddit

To you and I, it's easy. I did the cam in my Merkur, took about 2 hours because the lifters were being difficult, but to people with less mechanical know-how, it's an involved process. Especially when you have timing chains or have to remove the whole front of the motor to get at everything.

Replacing parts is the easy part of mechanicking, it's knowing what to replace and how to check it that's the real skill.

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Cranks_No_Start@reddit

Oh yeah some cams are a project. I thought you were referring to the Volvo in particular.

My F150s 302 while still straight forward would be a project and a half to do.

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Lay-Me-To-Rest@reddit

Oh yeah no I've never had the pleasure/pain of working on an old Volvo (though I'd like an old turbo brick one day), so I couldn't say if it was easy or not with any actual confidence. Most of my experience is with German cars and boy, talk about a project and a half for almost anything.

Pretty sure to do the starter on my RS4 you actually have to pull the engine out of the car.

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Cranks_No_Start@reddit

They were generally pretty easy to work on, I miss my old 240 it was such a fun car.

RS4

I added a turbo to a 20 year old engine with zero internal modifications with the exception of the camshaft.

It was 10.5 -1 compression ration and j was boosting it to 18-20 psi.

It was super hard on the transmissions but I never had a single issue with the engine. It was a Volvo B230F.

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Alive-Bid9086@reddit

Old engines are less optimized. New engines are highly optimized.

Just an example, aluminium block engines have traditionally had steel cylinder sleeves. I just saw that the latest engine blocks get the steel lining as a surface treatment. Theese blocks will be impossible to rebore, since the steel is too thin.

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throw-me-away-7878@reddit

LS1 and LS6

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Sufficient-Refuse-76@reddit

Yes you absolutely can

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Wardog008@reddit

Depends HEAVILY on the engine. Some, absolutely, but that goes for most modern NA engines as well.

Plenty of older engines can take adding forced induction just fine. Honda K series engines, LS engines, and plenty more.

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skylinesora@reddit

You must not have been into cars 20 years ago. LS engines would like a chat with you.

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67valiant@reddit

You actually can do exactly that. You can do that on a 50 year old engine too with great results

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LoneWitie@reddit

Modern n/a V6 engines will also routinely outperform 20 year old V8 engines.

The turbo 6 of today outperforms n/a v8 of today

I love V8s, I have one, but numbers is numbers

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Retrix@reddit

RR SV Autobiography reporting in. Can confirm this.

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Prest1ge89@reddit

What does "Boosting" or "Adding Boost" refer to in this context?

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SuperDozer5576-39@reddit

“Boosting” refers to using a method of forced induction on a given engine. The two most common methods are a supercharger and a turbocharger. These devices compress the air being drawn into the engine, allowing more air to be crammed into the same space than without compression. Superchargers are driven by a belt off the crankshaft like your A/C compressor while turbochargers are driven by exhaust pressure.

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eyeb4lls@reddit

Yeah I loved my wagon but always wished it was a 4l v8 or a 2.5l i6.

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GhostbustersActually@reddit

M3cs is doing nearly 550 on a straight 6 turbo'd

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Numerous_Teacher_392@reddit

A modern WRX is a tad quicker than most versions of the classic Countach.

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MusicMan7969@reddit

Engine options in a 2023 Camaro

Base engine: turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder with 275 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque

Available engines: 3.6-liter V6 with 335 horsepower and 284 pound-feet of torque

6.2-liter V8 with 455 horsepower and 455 pound-feet of torque

Absolute pain in the ass even for basic shit. Every time I have to work on it I swear I'm gonna sell it, then I drive it for a few days and change my mind.

My 2004 4 cylinder turbo and my 95 V8 mustang have the same horsepower.

Modern engines are amazing in the amount of power they have and the average car today is far more than what many of us built for 20 years ago.

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keuschonter@reddit

I have a 25-year-old V8 that is dramatically out powered by my 2 L four-cylinder turbo, and was actually also out powered (slightly) by my 2 1/2 L four-cylinder naturally aspirated motor in my previous car.

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Top-Reference-1938@reddit

Well, duh. Why are comparing generations?

But, what about a modern, boosted V8? They make much more than a modern, boosted V6.

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masterskolar@reddit

OP had no idea what he was talking about so I gave him an example to show him that there's more to it than 8 bigger than 6, 8 better.

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second-last-mohican@reddit

Huh?

Audi a8/s6/s7/s8/rs6/rs7, rsq7, rsq8 all 4.0tt v8. Porsche Cayenne, Panamera. 4.8t and 4.0tt v8 Bentley 4.0tt v8 Lamborghini Urus 4.0tt v8

They have specials on them they were 45-55 for 24 F150 single cab XLs 2WD 5.0 with Roush 700hp kit installed. Ford Lebanon would sell a ton of them. They still have the ad on their site actually. You can easily buy a new F150 2wd XL 5.0 under 40 stock new if you don't care about that many options. The kit is 13,000 installed you can still stay way under 80k if you want. Obviously if you are starting with a Lariat, King ranch, etc you are looking at much more.

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lonestar190@reddit

My 2.0T I5 GRI is throwing significantly more torque and horsepower than my mom’s 5L V8 was in an 85 Caprice.

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--_-__@reddit

My 2.3T Ranger hauls ass for how big it is. It’s not as fast as my 5.0 Mustang but it feels close.

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Gatesy840@reddit

My 3.2 5 cyl diesel ranger is slow asf lol

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So the 5.4 in the 2000 Cobra R…. Is a V8 in 2000…. N your Corolla has more than that?

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Mycroft_Holmes1@reddit

Did I say a cobra R?

You think the average muscle car on the road in 2000 was a cobra R v8?

masterskolar@reddit

See you understand how useless OPs question is without any details whatsoever. He's been editing it after the fact too.

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geek66@reddit

I would just say that is basically “old school” thinking.

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ScoutsOut389@reddit

The 45 year old motor in my weekend car has a displacement of 403 cubic inches and makes 185hp stock.

My rocery getter makes 273 horsepower with about half the displacement from a V6, and it’s 10 years old.

One of them is a lot more fun to drive but the tech in modern cars is just so much better than the classics.

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spokismONE@reddit

Boost a modern v8 tho and it will make way more.

Don't worry about your cylinder count.

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Quidegosumhic@reddit

I think the biggest comparison is for muscle cars. And yes there is a big difference between a v6 muscle car and a v8. Most young kids couldn't handle more than the v6's put out these days. But if you're truly going for power and performance, a v8 is superior.

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Neither-Signature-81@reddit

Whatever your do don’t buy a fuvking 90k mile S4. That thing is going to kill your, just buy a new one it will be cheaper.

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IlludiumQ36Space@reddit

"It’s become a norm now for sports/performance car owners especially young ones to obsess over v8 engines and basically ignore anything v6"

Really???

Yes, in this modern day of crazy HP cars. V8's are more stable when managing big power. V6's aren't bad engines at all but with big power/high rev ranges they feel like they're fragile and about to come apart.

A good example to test this would be the v6 f type Jaguar vs the v8 f type.

The main scenario a v6 is better than a v8 is in smaller or super lightweight cars. The shorter engine packaging is a bigger advantage here than the smother and more stable power of the v8.

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launchedsquid@reddit

V8 and V6 just denote how many cylinders and the fact that they are played out in a V formation.

A V8 can be absolutely gutless, a V6 can be an absolute rocket.

Don't worry about it, especially if you don't know enough about cars that you asked this question.

You can make any stock car faster via modifying it, you can make a Honda civic quicker than a Lamborghini if you want to. It's just a question of adding the right parts.

In the same model year car, yes.

Let's take a 2015 camaro and assume all cars we talk about are 100% stock, Most would be happy with the way the 3.6 v6 drives. It'll go, it's actually going to be fairly quick. But compared to the 6.2 v8 it is slow. Same comparison with a mustang or charger.

Now that 2015 camaro with the v6 is faster than a 1987 camaro with a v8 but that's just technology.

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CrankGOAT@reddit

Some four cylinders are pushing 275-350 HP now. The age of V8s is coming to an end.

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Oedipus____Wrecks@reddit

Two cylinders worth

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Infinite-Condition41@reddit

V6s just sound terrible. I won't buy anything with one.

Much of this is personal preference, tainted heavily with a heavy dose of internet BS.

My own personal preference is V8 over V6, but it's because of the sound that V8s make - my ears just love that sound. That said, not all V6s sound terrible, so this can boil down to how the car is tuned from the factory versus what someone may have done aftermarket.

Then, there's boost. Turbos are in the exhaust and they change the sound. Some people love that turbo whine, some don't. Boost is traditionally added in to give a lower-horsepower motor more go (and the fuel economy savings is a myth...), but even the best turbos in the business can take a moment to fully spool up (some are really slow to spool), and this changes the responsiveness of the car. My 911 has two turbos feeding a hungry v6 and makes significant power. However, I can still feel the boost delay and I have to adjust the timing of any foot mashing (to make it different than the timing I use when driving my F150, which has a N/A V8 in it). Very, very different driving experiences, IMHO. Better? Hard to say for sure as the vehicles are so different. I did, at one time, own a V8 Mustang, and the feeling of immediate power always put a big smile on my face.

(By the way, there are now V8 engines made 'European, flat-plane style' - these can rev to very high numbers and perform differently to the more traditional muscle car V8.)

With enough money, you can do whatever you want to the motor to get the sound and feel the way you want. But, in the end, my opinion is that you should be driving whatever gives you the biggest smile on your face (within budget, of course).

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GuavaOk8712@reddit

depends what ur buying. v6 charger/challenger, not the best buy when there’s v8s available that make a lot more power and sound way better

if you want a fuel efficient vehicle and not a loud and powerful one, never even consider a v8. there’s plenty of turbo 4s that make good power and sound decent while eating half as much gas as a v8

in the case of the b8 s4, it only comes with v6. supercharged v6. great car, great engine, looks good, sounds good, good power, etc.

Right. In the old days having a V8 with 200 horsepower made a lot of sense for spirited driving. Today a turbocharged V8 with 400 to 600 horsepower, not so much.

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deezconsequences@reddit

Today a turbocharged V8 with 400 to 600 horsepower, not so much.

I have a 2016 S7, and it just sounds amazing. I almost wish the cabin sound insulation wasn't so good. It's also fun as hell to drive. I've had it for 5 years and still love every minute.

My favorite moment came when being directed to back into a parking spot at a concert and two parking attendants came up and asked if it was a V8, because it sounded "awesome."

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Phrainkee@reddit

I would love to buy an S7 (or RS7 lol). How's the ownership been for 5 years? I'd like to get one but I'm mostly afraid of my wallet getting eaten alive by maintenance costs. Maybe it's not that bad, but I'm curious

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FinishExtension3652@reddit

I love the car, and it's mostly been routine maintenance like tires and brakes. Close to $800 for tires and nearly $2k for brakes at the local independent shop. The big spend was replacing the control rod bushings, which was almost $4k

Not quite. Vehicles that used to have V8's are often coming with TT6's now (or even a few with TT4's). Most NA V6's have been replaced with T4's.

StuckAtZer0@reddit

No comparison between a naturally aspirated V8 and naturally aspirated V6 of the same age.

919CaniacIn302@reddit

Depends on what you’re looking at.

The 2014-2015 S4 has a supercharged V6 with 333 hp.

Checking cars.com for cars 2010+, under $15,000, with V8s gets you things like: - BMW 550: 445 hp - Camaro SS: 426 hp - Mustang GT: 420 ho - Porsche Panamera: 400 hp - various Mercedes-Benz models

Bumping up to $20,000 (if you’d pay a premium for a V8), mostly just brings in more of the same but in better condition.

So, all of those are in the 400hp+ range. 400 represents 67 more than the S4, a 20% increase.

Some of these are bigger cars, which may counteract the added ponies if you’re really looking for performance. They’re also probably a bit more fuel hungry too. If you’re looking for a performance car, I may assume you’re gonna drive it hard which may eat up any fuel savings your V6 proposes on paper.

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Thats_what_im_saiyan@reddit

If you want to do your own maintenance. Get 2 cars. A daily and a beater for when you try to do a weekend job on the daily driver and it goes sideways.

The gap between the Jaguar supercharged V6 and V8 engines is literally visible

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Lucky-Gene6988@reddit

I know for a lot of people it’s down to the noise. And what sort of car it’s in. If it’s a muscle car, old or new. For me and many like me. It’s v8 or no cake(couldn’t think of something better, sue me)

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djluminol@reddit

V8's are better for some very wonky engineering reasons that wouldn't matter to anyone but maybe 2% of the enthusiast market. Like with anything though you gain in one area and lose in another. There is no such thing as perfect. Other than that, displacement and efficiency don't really care how many pistons there are, to a point. HP per liter or general efficiency are a more important metric imo. If you want the sound of a V8 or the way a flat plain V8 performs for those exceedingly rare for most of us performance reasons ok. Otherwise my personal preference is a straight 6. They tend to be high torque, high HP engines without the gas guzzling nature of most V8's or the weight that goes with them. Imo they are a good compromise between weight and power generation potential. They also sound cool. Everyone has their preferences for their own reasons though and none of them are wrong. There are some very, very good engines in every class or build type. Those boxer 4's on Subaru's sound amazing and they're "missing" half the engine but still sound a lot like a traditional US V8. The old Z, Supra and GTR engines also sound great and make good power. There is no right answer to this. There is only what is right for what you need or want.

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ConversationLevel498@reddit

What about a v12?

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two_faced_tune@reddit (OP)

That sounds a little out of my price range

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V8’s have inherent benefits that make them extremely appealing to car guys. The obvious is the amount of cylinders and more displacement increasing output. A less obvious benefit would be balancing, compared to a V6. Also, the sound of a V8 is worth the price of admission alone.

The greatest benefit a V6 offers is packaging. They are about 25% shorter than a V8, and even an inline 4 cylinder. This made them ideal for FWD applications before turbo charging 4 cylinders became the norm. Check out the ~2003 V6 RAV4 performance number to see the benefits of a V6 over a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder.

Is the gap between in I4 and a V6 all that big? It's relative.

All things equal, a V8 will outperform a V6 in all measures but fuel economy. It's simply a matter of displacement.

Does it matter? I mean - that's up to you. A V6 mustang/Camaro is pretty fast The Turbo 4 versions are pretty fast.

The V8 will be faster.

Temporary-District96@reddit

its mostly with muscle cars being that whole rep that theyre not muscle unless you have a v8. so having the v6 option is for the poors in their circles.

WeatherIcy6509@reddit

Its like having balls, then cutting them off, lol.

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ZZoMBiEXIII@reddit

I've always been a fan of Chevy's Camaro. I've owned many in my much (MUCH) younger days.

And the honest truth is, the best one I ever owned was a V6. It was a newer model of course, but it'd do every bit of the 130 on the speedo and with regular driving it wasn't a bank buster on gas prices.

Meanwhile the V8's I'd owned over the years, while they'd also go fast enough for American Muscle cars of their age, were always petrol guzzlers. It'd cost significantly more to operate for not all that much more power.

Obviously different models and boosting options play into it, modern tech versus old-school. Stock versus modernization, and on and on. But my completely anecdotal experience was that my 2002 Camaro with the V6 was just about the perfect balance of power and efficiency. Easily the best muscle car I ever owned, even if it might not have been the absolute most powerful possible.

The V8 vs V6 thing only matters in the world of American Muscle cars, where there actually is a major difference.

There’s nothing wrong with a V6 engine, and in something like an Audi S4 the V6 is proper.

But the trade off is you kinda need a V8 to get to V6 turbo power.

V6s aren't balanced so the engineer in me prefers a V8. I do like a good I6 tho.

Also V8s sounds great. There are very few V6s I find compelling in the noise department, and modern turbo'd systems dull that even more.

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LenoVW_Nut@reddit

This is a vast oversimplification. People like V8 because it's what they know and more cylinders deliver more power pulses for a smoother running engine. I enjoy the sound of a flat plane crank v8, like a Ferrari/Maserati or some Ford race motors.

Depending on what you want to do to an engine, I would really choose something simple. Honda K series can do 400hp, 800hp, or you could swap it into a lighter car, like 2,000lbs, and it would be fine with the stock amount of horsepower.

An Audi is not simple, it is packed and the computers are a whole other thing. I might do it, but I've had VW/Audi my whole life and started simple with a 1983 Rabbit.

A good thing might be a Miata with a 2.5L Fusion motor swap. It's simple compared to an Audi and you'll also get a car that handles, Audi are crazy nose heavy and plow (meaning they don't turn when you turn the steering wheel in a fast corner).

As a person with mostly flat 6 engines, I reckon v8, 10, 12 are engines that truly sound good NA, whereas I find v6 and below sound terrible.

Like the old saying goes “there’s no replacement for displacement”

In short, as has been proven many times over.

SammoNZL@reddit

Honestly can’t think of many sports cars that have a V8.

It’s not about the gap in power. It’s about the sound and the way the engine makes power. The engines character. If everything was about speed and power just get a Tesla

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baked-chicken@reddit

It comes down to Sound. Yea there are performance issues.

If you know F1. You remember V12 days. Then V-10 those glorious sounds. Then can the sounds of the v-6. Blaaaaaa. I grew up in muscle car era. The sounds of V8 was amazing.

A 4 bange with a Gerry can tip sounds like shit end of story

Yes I’m sure there are some V-6 that might sound good. But the rumble of V-8-10-12. Can’t be matched

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ContangoRetardation@reddit

If you want a car that’s actually fast get an electric.

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This is such an open ended question, I don’t think anyone can really accurately answer it. It’s gonna come down to personal preference mostly, though. I prefer a V8 in many applications simply because of the torque and the iconic sound. But not all V8s sound like V8s, and there are boosted V6s making way more power than some of them.

If I had a very small car that was light and I was going after raw horsepower, then I would probably prefer the boosted V6. Nothing really scratches the sound and nostalgia itch like a NA V8 though, at least for me.

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ghoulierthanthou@reddit

By exactly 2 cylinders.

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eltguy@reddit

In my experience, you will see the V8 vs. V6 holy wars between versions of the same platform. Say the venerable V6 New Edge Mustang as opposed to the GT. Same goes for the similar vintage F Body.

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itsjakerobb@reddit

Approximately nobody is out there singing the praises of V6 fourth-gen F-bodies.

They’re fine cars, and the 3800 engine holds a special place in my heart — but the LS1 cars are better in every way except fuel economy and insurance rates. To a first approximation, the only people with V6s bought them because they couldn’t afford the V8 or didn’t care.

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An issue for me is that most V6s sound like appliances. IMO that's generally the worst sounding engine configuration, all other things being equal.

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TCivan@reddit

I had a 21 4Runner sold it at their height after a couple years. Had the v6

I bought a 2005 v8 sequoia.

The v6 made about 260hp

The v8 287hp.

The sequoia is a little heavier. Bth have 5speed gearbox.

So while their 0-60 times are similarly, the V8 delivers the power very differently. It’s “always there”. The v6 had grunt, but only up top in the rev range. The V8 will pin in the seat from 1500rpm. The torque delivery is always there.

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That-Resort2078@reddit

Get a V8 they are going to stop making them.

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Guapplebock@reddit

There is no replacement for displacement.

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itsjakerobb@reddit

A bit of personal experience which seems somewhat relevant:

I dailied a lightly modified LS1 Camaro (5.7L V8, NA, 325whp) for many years. (Still have it, but it’s more modified now and I don’t daily it anymore.)

A friend let me drive his B8 S4 with the supercharged V6. Fun car, but in terms of powertrain, I was very underwhelmed. It was comparatively lacking in power, torque, sound, and character. It was comparatively extremely refined, even if I ignore the obvious additional refinement that comes with any Audi-vs-Chevy comparison. But refinement, to me, is boring.

I also got to drive a 981 Cayman GTS. That car was quick, especially on a road course. But again, the refinement made it boring. It felt like an old video game where you just steer and the car would go that way; no drama, no traction issues. No need to slow down for curves. Refinement isn’t for me.

A crossplane V8 has a characteristic rumble which you both hear and feel. It’s raw and visceral. It feels like it wants to GO. Personally, I love that.

Saving this comment for when I get one, which probably won’t be soon as these comments have definitely discouraged me a little from getting one in my current position😭

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Far-Wallaby-5033@reddit

There's no replacement for displacement

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Launch_Zealot@reddit

The old pre-1984 Ford Windsor v8 made 150hp. Make of that what you will.

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Gasonlyguy66@reddit

An S4 Audi with the v6 won't need any upgrades other then maybe a cool air/better air filter intake if it is a turbo. If it is turbo'd I would be very meticulous on oil changes, type of oil and any high mileage items listed to be replaced, such as the timing belts (or chain hopefully) I had 2 A4s & drove many more when looking including S4, RS4 (V8) & the 2020 A6 RS with the twin turbos. They handle like a dream, are cockpit quiet, easy to drive (my wife laments driving our infiniti since the A4) but you need to stay on maintenance. It might not quash a mustang or camaro off the line but no american car will keep up in the corners or the high speed acceleration & stopping!

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drakeallthethings@reddit

Oh, I wouldn’t touch the 4.2l Audi v8. The timing chain is in the back of the engine and while 2014-15 isn’t the worst year for it, if there are timing chain guide issues the whole engine has to come out.

But more to the point there are a lot of factors and the v8 isn’t always the best option. BMW is kind of notorious for reliability issues in their v8s that don’t show up in their 6 cylinders. The Ford ecoboost v6 are impressive and sometimes better than the v8 option depending on the application and specific v8. The AMC 304 v8 is a flat out turd that was outperformed by almost every other engine AMC offered at the time.

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RoyceCoolidge@reddit

Same chain/guide/engine out scenario with the supercharged S4s, unfortunately.

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The 3.5 v6 in my van makes 275 hp. The old 2 valve Ford 4.6 made between 190 and 260hp depending on trim and vehicle application. It REALLY depends on what you want the engine to do, but for most applications a modern V6 is a better choice as it likely produces enough power and gets better fuel economy than the V8. That said, the 8 will be less stressed as an engine, make more low end torque and likely last longer due to that understeessed state. And all that depends on on how well an owner takes care of the vehicle…

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grandpa-hair@reddit

There's nothing like the sound of a V8.

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doppledeaner1@reddit

Yes, and it's not even close. All these people say " mah boosted by" replaced an entire twin turbo system at the cost of 15k at 130000 miles to get the same hp and worse gas milage. Turbo cars are great for EPA tests and dino runs. I'll admit they are pretty good for towing. But they sast as long as a wet fart. My co workers f150 blows a cloud of smoke on startup and the dealership told him it's normal.

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JooDood2580@reddit

This is also application dependent. If you are towing, it’s a V8 or nothing (unless it’s a big rig). The can typically make more torque than horsepower and that helps move the load your towing.

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jawsofthearmy@reddit

Fastest street cars are V6

Modern engine will be better than 2014.

A modern v8 pushing 500 hp is really great.

Typically people who want a sports car opt for the more powerful engines as their preference (don’t always want to pay the extra hence people buying other options). That is true for a NA 4 cylinder vs a turbo 4, 4 vs 6 cylinder etc.

There are plenty of high performance v6 cars but people who get American muscle cars typically prefer the v8.

Do you only race N/A?

The power level of a charged/ boosted v8 dwarfs that of a 6. The domination level is astounding when you realize their MAX EFFORT is your starting point.

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IM_The_Liquor@reddit

As the saying goes, there’s no replacement for displacement…

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iforgot69@reddit

For the average consumer, no.

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two_faced_tune@reddit (OP)

Wha

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TexMoto666@reddit

My G37 makes 330hp from a n/a V6. That's 110hp more than my V8 Bronco.

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Saiyakuuu@reddit

If big was all an engine needed to be then why are engines in formula 1 getting smaller?

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OrionX3@reddit

From personal experience it can be pretty different if boost isn't involved.

When I was looking for mustangs I drove a 2017 V6 (3.7L V6 300hp 280ft/lb), a 2021 ecoboost (2.3L boosted 310hp 350ft/lb), and a 2023 GT (450hp 410ft/lb).

The v8 sound is the hardest to lose when going to a v6.

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Egnatsu50@reddit

Depends on the car really...

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mmaalex@reddit

Historically there was a huge gap, and a lot of muscle cars were marketed with with both options and the V6es tended to be relatively anemic.

Short answer is no.

This comes from American tradition, where the sport version of a car comes with a V8, and the "base" version comes with a V6. This is especially common with cars like mustangs and Cararos, where they would keep the entry model cheap by basically dropping an engine out of a minivan in.

The engine you are talking about will mop the floor with 90% of the older V8s out there.

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Bottoms_Up_Bob@reddit

By most objective measures V8 isn't as good. But man, that V8 sound...

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robertwadehall@reddit

Never had a boosted engine...all the V8s I've had were N/A, as have been the V6s. I find a modern 335hp N/A V6 w/ a 10 spd auto like my primary car (Cadillac) is fine..smooth and powerful enough for a daily and road trip car. Though I am looking at a car w/ a supercharged V8 for my next car.

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orion455440@reddit

What are the current record breaking top fuel dragsters running?

desexmachina@reddit

Well, I don’t know what to do for you if you don’t understand firing order or crank plane. Hint: boosted V8s should have a different crank than an NA, V6 eh not so much, and I didn’t say boxer.

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bigmean3434@reddit

I am really enjoying the 5 cylinder in my Audi. I think it sounds cool as hell and it’s a little rocket. It isn’t the amount of cylinders, it is the engine.

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Wrong-Camp2463@reddit

Surprised that no has pointed out that maintaining, tuning, and modifying a V8 is far easier than a V6. A pushrod 2V V8 is bullet proof, easy to repair, easy to get cheap parts for. A boosted V6 with dual OHC on the other hand…

Once you do your first V8 rebuild the rest are easy. Most V6 have some custom proprietary weird thing going on with them to have the same power as a V8.

Just need cylinders big enough, and either compression thats high enough or some form of boost.

What does happen is that there are roughly optimal sizes for cylinders (volume to surface area) that tell you how large the average engine with a set amount of cylinders is.

Also boost allows for exponential gains in fuel consumption as long as you don't need full power. A not boosted 7L motor always needs a minimum amount of fuel. A boosted 2L motor needs a lot less minimum amount of fuel. When both produce the same amount of power, both will need very similar amounts of fuel

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ekajh13@reddit

I’ve always went by the saying, “there’s no replacement, for displacement”. Now you can take a lower displacement engine and boost it to basically perform like a larger displacement engine or even better. But I’ve always found that those smaller engines boosted to max levels aren’t going to be as dependable for the long term as larger(V8) N/A engine or even a v8 with a lower amount of boost. It comes down to what your end goal really is. Are you daily driving this and want something that isn’t boring? Lots a v6 cars can do that and can be made to produce even more power. Now do you want to get a car that can take a beating over and over and produce the power you probably want without having to void warranties or buy anything aftermarket? V8 is the answer.

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CattleOk6654@reddit

I think a lot of this comes down to what car. It's not always just the v8 engine. Let's take an American car like the camaro. In principal a v6 and v8 are the same car but when you got to the v8 version you get a different transmission, rear end, suspention, brakes. So there are a lot more upgrades. It's not all about the engine. Also comparing turbo v6 audio and v8 american cars performance is similar in some ways. But let's say you bought a non turbo v6 audi and added turbos. Same procipal applies. You get bugger brakes, better transmission, sometimes better interior options on the turbo v6 than the non tubro.

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Shadowcard4@reddit

TLDR: V8s generally have both a higher power ceiling, more engine bag space (as they were designed around it) and if NA they’re high power and pretty high reliability. 6 cylinder engines can get higher power but generally that takes a turbo to get to the same level as a V8, and then the car also isn’t built as robust either so your power ceiling by things like axles and transmission and such is usually a lot lower.

Not directly 1:1 but for example say the normal lancers have the less robust transmission and the NA mods can put it very close to making the transmission pop, let alone a turbo.

Also, the 350Z which is kinda common for adding a turbo is just a cunt to work inside aww everything is really packed in there.

Also, take like a V8 mustang and throw a supercharger on it and maybe new injectors and you’re fine for 1000HP, compared to a lot of smaller engines hitting 1000 changes your car fundamentally just to handle the turbo most times.

I’m not a big fan of Audi either due to the wicked pricy bills with them but it would likely be way more than enough horsepower to get in trouble

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z4nar0@reddit

I miss the sound of my HEMI Durango V8, but I am enjoying the torque of my GX550 TT V6

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MikeWrenches@reddit

It's a pissing contest.

Drive the car, if it's fun and you enjoy it, you don't have to care if the other guy at the traffic light has a V8. Once you start to worry about power, you'll soon find that there is ALWAYS someone with more than you.

I've got an "underpowered" 205 HP sports car, despite that it's still the best car I've ever owned. Who cares is a Honda Odyssey smokes it.

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Papercoffeetable@reddit

Straight 6 is where it’s at 🤫

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BaselessEarth12@reddit

"There's no replacement for displacement!"

"But what about smaller modern forced induction mills?"

VR38DETT (GTR engine) greatest v6 on earth.

That v6 engine has gone as far as 3500 wheel horsepower or about 4100 engine horsepower.

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PsychologicalDraw909@reddit

its so big 😩😩

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ExitSpecialist5834@reddit

The engine in that S4 is a beast. It was on Wards best engine list for years. being a super charged V6 it has the power and low rev torque of many naturally aspirated V8’s. Do a search for Audi 3.0 TFSI review on google and read a bit.

Can it compete with a supercharged V8? No. But in a car the size of the S4 you won’t be disappointed.

It's basically a hierarchy. Old v6< old v8 < modded Old v6 < modded Old v8 or new v6 (likely factory boosted) < new v8 < new modded v8.

Are there exceptions, sure. Sharpshoot and AcKtUaLlY all you want. But this is generally how it goes for power. There's no "obsession" over v8s. Its just the fact that apples to apples, the v8 makes more power. Dump time and money into a 6 to beat an 8... sure. Same dude puts the same money into the v8 or gets something with modern tech and guess what, he's likely faster now.

There's trucks from GMC that had larger V6 engines that worked great.

There are some YT videos about engine design. IIRC, the straight 6 was a great choice and the V8 is compact and powerful.

IMO, it's really about bore/stroke, head design, cam, intake, etc... Then you really have to look at the use. A larger truck loves the torque of a BB V8.

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CelestialBeing138@reddit

Imagine a society where it will cost you $3000 each month for the essentials: to put a roof over your head, food in your belly and own a decent car. Now imagine two jobs where you might work. One gives you $3300 per month, the other gives you $3600. It sounds like a small difference, but practically speaking, it is a huge difference. $3600 gives you twice as much discretionary money as $3300.

had a 2005.5 Audi S4 with the 4.2 V8. sounded great! nothing is like the bubble of a V8. the supercharged v6 your looking at is much quicker, but the sound...more smiles per mile.

the S4 v6 you looking at isn't a slouch. You'll have fun, just buy it.

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s32@reddit

That S4 engine is solid. I like the B9 more personally, holds a tune super easily and I love that turbo whine.

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Antoine_the_Potato@reddit

I mean also there's cornering. One reason why companies are making tiny tirbocharged engines like in the Golf R and GR Corolla is that they're lighter. To apply it to V6 vs V8, I'd rather speed down a twisty mountain road in a Renault Clio V6 RS than a Mercedes B55 AMG.

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ReebX1@reddit

Eh, it depends. A highly tuned and boosted V6 can put out more power than a normally aspirated V8, but a tuned and boosted V8 will eat that V6 for lunch. Plus the normally aspirated V8 sounds better than a boosted V6. The naturally aspirated V8 will generally be more reliable than the boosted V6, but the boosted V6 will likely get better fuel economy.

So I guess the answer to that question depends on who it's for. There's a saying popular with old timer hod rodders. There's just no replacement, for good old displacement.

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Pleasant-Salary-2685@reddit

V8 will have more potential simply because it has higher displacement. (In general) I had a 2014 S4 stage 2 making 494bhp, swapped that to a Lexus ISF, stock that is making 420 with no forced Induction. A supercharger kit on the Lexus will get it over 700 to the wheel. But there are also v6engines that go over 1000bhp so not a hard and fast rule.

But most modern cars avoid v8 because fuel efficiency is horrible, good for a weekend car but not daily driver.

The obsession with v8 is because it’s a dying engine configuration, it’s not a practical choice but boy do they sound good

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Wolf_Ape@reddit

Nothing is that simple. A 4cyl can make 2400hp, and there are v12s that couldn’t break the 300hp level.

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swaite@reddit

Hi there. I was you 20 years ago. And let me tell you, the V6 vs V8 debate is nothing new.

V8s of the era were almost always going to be more powerful, because just about every V6 produced at that time was simply a V8 the company made, with 2 cylinders looped off (an oversimplification, but true nonetheless). This was done for efficiency. V6s have been refined over time and we now have car companies like Audi putting a V6 built from the ground up in their performance oriented S4 (and A6, SQ5, S5, etc.).

I personally own a 2013 S4 and it is a marvelous machine that blows the doors off of just about every V8 from 20 years ago. It’s also a wonderfully reliable powerplant—nothing like your dad’s Audi’s. You still need to look after it. It’s a precision German machine and demands meticulous maintenance. Follow the book and it will give you many miles of trouble free operation.

There is still a place for the V8. They are inherently a balanced engine, whereas the V6 is not. This makes the V8 smoother, and to oversimplify things again, more reliable. There are few conventions more established than a truck and a V8.

I would say, get the Audi, tune it, and enjoy “gapping” your friends with their V8s, and roll off into the sunset.

There is one undeniable thing that the V6 configuration lacks, and that is two additional cylinders. The V8 soundtrack cannot be replicated and is worth more than outright power, efficiency, and reliability to some. I leave you with this video comparing Audi’s V6 and V8:

two_faced_tune@reddit (OP)

Yup, I completely understand I was already part way to that conclusion lol but this information is still great to know thank you

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No-Understanding-912@reddit

Performance has gone through the roof in the past decade. You can find a fast/fun car in just about any price range and engine variant, especially when comparing to something from 2010ish and older.

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SnooHabits9364@reddit

In todays day and age not really because you have Inline 6’s from BMW competing with mustang 5.0’s and 6.4 Hemis and LS engines. People mainly love V8’s for the sound but performance wise it’s really depending on the manufacturer.

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V4_Sleeper@reddit

the gap may be small but audibly v8 wins most of the time. and that matters a lot to some people (like me)

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Blu_yello_husky@reddit

V8s are slow. V6s are barely enough to even move the car out of its own way.

FYI, before I get angry comments, I'm talking about v8s in normal cars, not in sports cars specially tuned for performance

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jlwolford@reddit

Since I was a teenager I have always valued a light weight car and great handling over horsepower. Heavy v8s don’t usually fit my paradigm. The formula for a great car is really simple don’t chase power. Chase performance.

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Autobacs-NSX@reddit

NSX C32 and LS1 V8 from the same year weigh the exact same. Ferrari was making V12’s that weighed less than 400 pounds all the way back in the 60’s.

Materials, displacement, and general engineering don’t discount any number of cylinders for weight reasons.

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Psychological_Ad1388@reddit

I have. 2.7 litre twin turbo V6 in my 2019 f150. It puts out a tune of torque and can handle anything ai’ve ever towed. The key is maintenance and not driving the shit outta of your vehicle. Regular oil changes.

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sausage_ditka_bulls@reddit

The car you want is a forced induction v6. It has plenty of power

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two_faced_tune@reddit (OP)

Come to realize this with all the information I’m getting, thank god for this sub.

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KeeganY_SR-UVB76@reddit

In modern times, a V6 will almost always have a better power:weight ratio compared to a V8. Yes, the V8 will create more power, but it will also be heavier.

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boiyo12@reddit

Depends on the car. On a 2004 mustang? Base v6 and v8; there is a slight difference but its not MASSIVE. On turbo or supercharged cars? Yea it can be significant.