First time in history Su 57 and F35 are in the same air strip.
Posted by Tsundare_Mai@reddit | aviation | View on Reddit | 418 comments
Both are in Air Force base Yelahanka, Bengaluru, India for Aero-India 2025
crimemastergogo96@reddit
It’s going to be interesting air show.
Su 30 mki, Su 57 , f35, f16 and B1 all in the same show.
nspy1011@reddit
Wonder what’s the purpose? They’re not selling the F35 to India
AshMain_Beach@reddit
US said if India buys F-16’s or F-15’s, they will be “eligible” for the f-35 program. Probably just a tactic to sell more jets but the fact that India makes F-16 wings and Apache fuselage it’s still crazy
savageguy872@reddit
russia offering su57, if us dont offer f35 they wont make the deal, and its quite the money
Suspicious_Loads@reddit
It don't matter what Russia is offering. They can't get air superiority in Ukraine so how good can their planes be?
Flagon15@reddit
According to people who flew against them, quite good.
The difference being that the Taliban had a bit worse air defense than Ukraine, which is arguably the 2nd best in Europe.
YourMomsBasement69@reddit
It wasn’t the 2nd best when the full scale invasion began and they still didn’t gain air superiority then either.
Flagon15@reddit
Yes it was, they had a well rounded and layered network of short, medium and long range mobile SAMs inherited from the USSR, and they had them in huge quantities. Nobody else in Europe could even compete other than Russia.
YourMomsBasement69@reddit
And yet Russia failed to gain air superiority 🧐
Laundry_Hamper@reddit
ah, the Ferrari model
SaengerDruide@reddit
could you please explain that expression ?
mattimyck@reddit
Ferrari is selling top of a line cars, like Enzo or La Ferrari, only to people who already have other Ferrari models like 488, FF, F12.
Mr_Marram@reddit
I understand from other owners, they were told on the side from dealers on how to get a production allocation for the new F80. They needed to currently own 8 Ferraris, previous halo and new model purchasing improved their chances.
ICumInSpezMum@reddit
so a season pass for the ultra rich
9999AWC@reddit
Don't forget that you need to spend a certain amount in options per car too
Demolition_Mike@reddit
Ferrari uses a grind model not unlike MMOs like War Thunder. Even if you have the money, you can't buy a new Ferrari. You have to buy an ond, second hand one first. Then a newer one. And you have to go to Ferrari events. And they have a black box in their cars to see if you drive "The Ferrari way". If you don't no more Ferraris for you.
SaengerDruide@reddit
thank God I'm poor enough so that doesn't bother me
Interestingcathouse@reddit
If you do get the money just choose Lamborghini. If you told them you want to launch a fleet of Lamborghinis out of a Lamborghini cannon to sink a ship they’d be like “fuck yeah, can we watch? Let us tweak it so it flies better”.
Their entire history is being the anti-Ferrari and it’s kind of hilarious.
Not_FinancialAdvice@reddit
Or McLaren, but you better get that service contract.
qqererer@reddit
Also sounds like the luxury handbag model.
You won't be let into the inner room that contains the bag unless you've already bought a ton of the other smaller stuff on a regular basis. Wallets, sunglasses, scarves, whatever. You could offer to pay double, and they wouldn't even consider it.
TheBeatGoesAnanas@reddit
You can definitely walk into a Ferrari dealer and buy a new one without ownership history. They only have those requirements for their limited, high-end models.
ency6171@reddit
First time I heard this blackbox Ferrari test. Bizarre.
going_mad@reddit
More like the Hermes handbag model
rapzeh@reddit
Or Rolex. Or any other high end good.
princess_fartstool@reddit
Very similar to how Hermes works with their quota bags and spends.
VespucciEagle@reddit
bingo
Light-weeny@reddit
Check insta dms lol
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
They have proposed something called the F-21 , it’s basically a stealthier F-16 apparently
Historical_Ad_7861@reddit
it not stealth just a block 70 with different name and lot of marketing gimmick .... LM thought we all are retrded
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
It also has IRST , aerial refueling probe and towed decoys along with an ability to carry 8 Amraams and 2 IR missiles. It’s a slightly better version of the block 70.
OccasionOnly1984@reddit
F35’s were just offered to India like 2 days back
nspy1011@reddit
Yep I read it yesterday. Interesting times!
crimemastergogo96@reddit
Dangling a carrot to get India to buy the f16/21. And to wean india off from Russian hardware.
But I don’t think India is really going to buy the f16. Too many conditions and USA could halt supplies of spares in case of conflict of intrest. USA sided with Pakistan in the 70s and 80s and armed them with f16. Too much of mistrust there.
Rafale is the top choice for Indian Air force. The French have no restrictions against the iaf using the rafale to deliver nuclear strikes.
AbleArcher420@reddit
Then maybe the Indians should grow a pair and build something domestic that's worth a shit. China's right next door and they're two generations ahead, while India is making this big wishy-washy will they/won't they about buying some French 4th gen dreck.
It's time to leave this non-alignment nonsense behind. It ain't the '50s anymore.
pisslamistfucker@reddit
They're literally doing that lmao.
J-20 is 5th gen lol
Rafale is far better than Shit called F-16
EuroFederalist@reddit
Yes, by all accounts J-20 is a 5th gen plane. Indian 5th gen is far away from being reality.
C0braboytnt@reddit
As someone who is 10kms away from the airshow, the real issue is that India is losing talent to US/UK and that makes it very hard to find competent engineers.
AbleArcher420@reddit
That's a very complex issue to try and mitigate. I agree.
C0braboytnt@reddit
I was Cycling yesterday and managed to see a bit of acrobatics and some Tejas(s), c130j and mirage flying in formation and some acrobatics by suryakiran jets if I'm right. I can plane spot from outside my house but I am having exams so I have to miss the airshow.
polagear@reddit
I thought India has their own fighter through HAL? I'm obviously wrong!
lord_lableigh@reddit
We do but the LCA Tejas mk 1 which was supposed to be delivered years before is stuck because GE can't produce the F404 for shit and has a massive backlog (a squadron worth).
The mk 2 is planned to be fitted with f414s and the true 5th gen AMCA just completed design phase and we still haven't decided if we want to form a JV with the french safran or the british RR for the engines.
AbleArcher420@reddit
The HAL thing is a MiG-21 replacement. It's the low end of the hi-lo mix they've got going.
crimemastergogo96@reddit
Hal has a pretty large order book thanks to the IAF.
They have Tejas mk1 and mk1a, on order and Tejas mk2, the 5th gen AMCA and carrier based fighter under development.
If things work out This current requirement is probably the last plane that the iaf will import .
polagear@reddit
Thanks for the info
pcardinal42@reddit
I love the B1 but why the hell is it there? It's not like Boeing is going to start manufacturing them to sell.
nspy1011@reddit
Power projection
TheGreatPornholio123@reddit
India has been cutting contracts on some Russian gear. US gear shows up as a fuck you and "guess what we could talk about."
OccasionOnly1984@reddit
I don’t know if you’ve been following the latest news. F35 has already been offered to India. As has the su57 by Russia
West-Consideration-9@reddit
There is literally no such fighter that is both wanted by India and offered by the US.
nspy1011@reddit
They had the chance to build the F16 which they turned down for the Rafale (probably justified as its much more modern). If not the F35, not sure what the US can offer? F22 not possible due to lack of tooling, F15 is too old
TheGreatPornholio123@reddit
F-15 too old. Have you been introduced to the F-15EX?
nspy1011@reddit
Yeah but still not stealthy. That’s what India wants. Rafale is already doing the role the F15EX would take on
JoshS1@reddit
Quite literally... I've stood about 300ft to the side of one taking off. It rattles everything, if you pick your boot up slightly off the ground you can feel the sound vibrating between your foot and the ground.
QuaintAlex126@reddit
There’s a clip out there somewhere of a BONE taking off with burners and causing an F-16 to tip over from it.
bgmacklem@reddit
Love how apparently disinterested the camera operator is in the tipped-over F-16 haha. Eyes only for the BONE
MagicalMagyars@reddit
Power projection, but also because it absolutely manages to be a highlight everytime and everything stops for the couple of minutes it makes its appearance.
jyguy@reddit
Something that big firing the afterburners is a sight to see
Accurate-Indication8@reddit
I remember being at the Miramar Airshow's night show like 20 years ago and they had a B-1B do a low pass, light the burners just before it was abeam the crown and climb out. It was SO damn cool seeing those purple cones of flame pop out the back as the plane roared past and climbed out.
Replubic@reddit
Nothing like a Bone spreading its legs.
jeff-beeblebrox@reddit
And doing a barrel roll
thisisinput@reddit
unzips
I_count_ducks@reddit
Bring back the Vulcan!
HailStorm_Zero_Two@reddit
Public relations, and can also be used internally as a training exercise: 'can we deploy 2 B-1s to an airport geographically remote from all our established bases, and (if a flying display) support them though a daily flight schedule? It's a pretty big test of capability when you think about the logistics you would need.
pcardinal42@reddit
Yea, I remember them going to Australia for an airshow and being stuck there for 3 months. There are only so many parts you can bring but when IDGs and Struts go bad the planes just have to sit and wait. Maintainers loved it.
HailStorm_Zero_Two@reddit
Haha if it's the same one I'm thinking of, I WORKED at that airshow and worked with those crews. They had a really rough time.
Some of the high(low?)lights: - main gear brake failure on arrival (full lock on landing), with the A/C deciding to divert from the show to the closest international port (night arrival so they elected to land at a controlled field), problem was their tanker support (and parts) made it into the show, so it was a long, long night of driving parts and support crew to and from the show to the disabled A/C on the other ports' runway. - constant oil leakage throughout show. - both primary and backup craft were not able to display on multiple days. - on final departure, second aircraft had a front gear failure and had to fly to a secure RAAF base with the wheels down the whole way. Rumour had it that it ran its' tanks almost dry doing so.
Props to them all, never once saw anything less than a smile on their faces the whole time, and we made sure to give them all some good Aussie hospitality as thanks for their efforts. If you know any of the crews that came here that year, ask 'em if they'll tell you about the lollipop incident ;)
tryCatchExceptionist@reddit
Dude... come on...
HailStorm_Zero_Two@reddit
Not my story to tell, I just witnessed it 🤣 You're gonna have to track down the Bone airman who passed into legend that night 🫡
pcardinal42@reddit
I was a maintainer back then and didn't associate with the aircrew except to fix stuff. We were jealous of the people selected to go on that trip because it's to Australia and then to get stuck there for 2+ months was just crazy.
HailStorm_Zero_Two@reddit
I think you fellas deserve the most respect; I don't envy what you had to work with, but you all did get them back airborne under those conditions. The ones that came down here did a great job of putting out the constant spot fires those things were generating. 😃
welcometa_erf@reddit
You ever see 4 afterburners eject violet flames 100 feet out the back of a plane? You ever stand under the departure end of a bone taking off in theater? It’s truly an all time experience.
pcardinal42@reddit
Yea I worked on them before. Doesn't answer the question as to why we send them to an air show in India except for someone saying it's just power projection
9thWardWarden@reddit
Because its cool as fuck 😎
wrongwayup@reddit
Because it has four afterburners
dangledingle@reddit
It’s a BACK TO PLASTIC STRAWS drive.
Red_Kys_Zone@reddit
USA'S show of power perhaps?
pcardinal42@reddit
It does put on a great show. I miss working on them
Alin144@reddit
all of that for a warfare that is becoming more and more about cheaper and cheaper drones
Royal-tiny1@reddit
I am beginning to think that manned fighters will become obsolete in my lifetime. Ukraine is showing that they cannot survive in modern air defense environments. Both sides simply use them as very expensive ways to launch ordinance from behind their own lines.
EuroFederalist@reddit
Neither Russia nor Ukraine have capabilities what USAF has.
Alin144@reddit
Yeah, you have to ask what is the point of manned fighters at this point, they are pretty much a glorified missile carrier. You spend SOO MUCH money and resources on it just deliver damage on the other side and protect the pilot, but when you remove human pilot from the equation, you are spending a lot of money to protect the equipment you spending a lot of money on... And at this stage it just becomes best option to make equipment as dirt cheap as possible, and you can send 10000 drones for a price of one jet.
roionsteroids@reddit
Cruise/ballistic missile: $1m+
Glide bomb: like $30k
and as you can see in every war ever, it takes many thousands of either to turn just one medium sized city to ashes
only one is affordable
Acrobatic-Mind3581@reddit
A missile carrier, that's exactly the point of Fighter jets in current time, and it's reasonable. A missile will be too expensive on its own as the bigger better engine/ rocket motor gets destroyed with the missile. a Jet effectively replaces the initiative phase of missile deliverance and reusability.
gymnastgrrl@reddit
Eh, if you can get air superiority, you can do a hell of a lot. The problem for Ukraine and for Russia is that neither side has managed that. I would imagine in other situations, one side or the other might well establish air superiority, in which case having these platforms would be rather handy.
Acrobatic-Mind3581@reddit
Yeah exactly, India want the capability to at least appose enemy air superiority effectively while they might not gain it against strong opponents like china. Doing all this while shifting it's Air Force from foreign made instruments to domestic ones. Pretty hard to do realistically.
Terrh@reddit
Wish they could do a fighter jet version of paintball. See who made the best jet and the best pilots.
Loser has motivation to come back stronger next year.
Flashy-Ambition4840@reddit
They do wargames all the time. But the answer seems to be the F-22
jt5574@reddit
When you make an F-22 fight in those war games with external fuel tanks strapped on, you know the others were going to be at a disadvantage. Yes, a Rafale did “take out” an F-22 during said war games, but the F-22 took out 5 Rafales.
Flagon15@reddit
We have a video of it, the fuel tank story doesn't hold up.
It's dogfighting, everything's possible, especially in exercises, your precious toy wasn't humiliated or anything, you can calm down already.
jt5574@reddit
2009 in a joint training exercise in the UAE. Seen it a long time ago, just too lazy to look it up again.
BlueApple666@reddit
The F-22 / Rafale happened in 2009 in Dubai during ATLC. There were 6 dogfights, US claimed one victory and five draws, French claimed one defeat, four draws and one kill.
Two years later, the first pics of the dogfight surfaced and then the (in)famous video. And everyone can see the F-22 was in a clean configuration.
No_Charisma@reddit
The clean configuration of the F-22 wasn’t really the “controversy” though. It was the fact that the scenarios all began with situations the F-22 would never find itself in in reality.
I put “controversy” in quotes because it really wasn’t even that. The entire point of these types of war games is to force pilots into scenarios where there is something to learn that they wouldn’t be able to in their normal training environments, and oftentimes this means that an aircrew will enter an engagement that is practically un-winnable.
This is a major difference in how war games in the west are typically conducted, whereas other major powers (Russia, China) tend to use them more as demonstrations. The takeaway shouldn’t be that one plane is better than another… the F-22 and the Rafale are very different and both great at what they are supposed to do. The F-22 is designed entirely around the idea that it is supposed to cruise over large swaths of airspace and kill enemy aircraft from a distance, preferably without the enemy ever even knowing that they’re under attack. The Rafale is designed as a multi-role fighter that is intended to launch from land or sea, close with enemy aircraft and engage in dogfights, though it also has BVR (beyond visual range) and ground attack capabilities. It is not an air superiority fighter. So, it makes perfect sense that if either aircraft were forced into the other’s preferred operating environment it would find itself at a significant disadvantage, but that isn’t the point of war games.
AbleArcher420@reddit
That's what wargames and training exercises are for.
MrRibbotron@reddit
They do but only with other NATO members.
Willingly giving Russia the chance to gain experience with their capabilities and tactics would spoil the whole idea of stealth.
canttakethshyfrom_me@reddit
Would be fun to watch, but air forces tend to lose effectiveness very quickly when there's data on how to beat their equipment and tactics.
SuckThisRedditAdmins@reddit
God DAMN I wish I was there.
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
Add rafale
Ultimate_Kurix@reddit
The Indian paradox.
praneeth24@reddit
More like peak Indian Diplomacy
jithization@reddit
Did India negotiate for both of them to be there?
praneeth24@reddit
India is in very good terms with both the countries. They both want India to buy their aircraft, also it’s projection of power, basically WIN WIN for all 3. Mainly a big win for the audience. I’m from Bangalore and I can’t be there , I’m so jelly :(
jithization@reddit
I think India getting F35s is wishful thinking. Last time I checked they were going to get, if at all, F21s based on the F16. This is less about Indian diplomacy and more about US teasing superpowers.
praneeth24@reddit
https://www.economist.com/asia/2025/02/20/the-us-russia-dogfight-to-sell-india-fighter-jets
Hmmmmm
kimjongun_v2@reddit
Tbf, India doesn’t seem to be super inclined on getting American aircrafts especially fighter jets since it generally gets tricky configuring it with all the Russian radar systems that we have. India has some apaches tho, looks cool.
jithization@reddit
Yeah that is one aspect but the US will think many times over before handing stealth tech to a country that is closely tied to Russia than the US even tho OC claims that ‘India is in very good terms with both countries’.
praneeth24@reddit
Yes , US wants India to reduce Russian influence ( just like any other country ) but this was not the case during 80s , US sold F16s to Pakistan when India was at war with them, the west turned away from India making Russia a powerfully ally.
Hence , India now stands as an independent nation who do not get influenced by any other nation and acts solely on their own interest. This turns the table for other nations to be friendly with India.
kimjongun_v2@reddit
Oh yeah totally agree with that. I think it’s a good thing too, bitter in the short term but in the long run it will push India to have a self sustaining indigenous military complex which is what we’ve been trying to get to.
And India being on good terms with both countries is really a tightrope walk that India has to do everyday. We just ‘manage’ it better than the most.
on3day@reddit
If that F35 had a trigger accident 0.1% of the total F35 fleet takes out 3% of the total su57 fleet. (Including 10 prototypes).
Zhukov-74@reddit
I thought you were joking but this is completere accurate
Projected F-35 builds range from 3,000 to 3,500 worldwide, with over 1,000 already built.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57 | 32 (including 10 prototypes) as of December 2023
Boundish91@reddit
Could be interesting to see what happens to those orders now that the president has started to bad mouth and threaten allies. Like how can they trust that the US won't just disable their F-35s?
GoHuskies1984@reddit
Found the Saab AB salesperson.
sokratesz@reddit
The US having some sort of backdoor switch has been a concern since well before the JSF was called the f35.
lordderplythethird@reddit
Which to anyone with common sense realizes is idiotic. A backdoor switch that Russia/China could potentially discover and take out large parts of the western airpower without firing a shot?
Takes a special breed to believe something that dumb
Pacificwatch2024@reddit
u/lordderplythethird what are your thoughts on the comment thread under this post? https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/search/?q=F-35+&cId=bcb54e7e-80b9-42aa-b9dd-e5c2bf4cfc19&iId=18b12b5a-bab2-4a61-8d1c-1d225538dd43 seems there is at least one commenter who believes in the whole remotely disable schtick.
DarthPineapple5@reddit
Yeah the US "backdoor switch" is having an Air Force 100x bigger than anyone it is selling F-35's to
mogaman28@reddit
TBF the Grippen is way cooler than the ugly cute F-35.
Gary_the_metrosexual@reddit
Oi shut the F-35 is a beauty.
mogaman28@reddit
It is like a Pug to me, ugly cute.
CobaltGuardsman@reddit
But is it stelth
mogaman28@reddit
But it is no YF-23 that is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay cooler and stealthier than the Grippen or the Raptor. It's a shame that Japan didn't revive the project.
BarnardWellesley@reddit
Average eurocucknard delta user
Dova-Joe@reddit
Don't kink shame my 'nards!
eh-guy@reddit
A lot of the F35 is made in countries outside the states, we make a bunch of it here in Canada. They won't have as much control over jets as you'd expect for now.
JovianPrime1945@reddit
The US is ordering about 2000+ more just for themselves...
Acc87@reddit
I'd sure love if for example Germany would back off it's F-35 orders.
TexasBrett@reddit
And do what? Keep 40 year old Tornadoes flying?
Acc87@reddit
Get a nuke clearance for the Typhoon? Main reason they went for the 35 was that that has whatever is needed to carry and drop the few free fall nukes Germany stores for the US. The Tornado had/has these systems.
Jack_Valois@reddit
Maybe bc this same song and dance happened in the current president’s first term and nothing really happened?
It’s mostly superficial rhetoric designed to extract economic concessions, same playbook as before. Strategic planners around the world aren’t just going to rip up long term defense contracts over a few mean tweets from one admin head. It would take years for non USA defense contractors to even ramp up their production to fill the gulf
And no one in NATO is going to compromise one of NATO’s most advanced air assets, a critical part of their doctrine, on a whim. I doubt he could even do that unilaterally, the United States still has checks and balances ya know.
Boundish91@reddit
But he has real power this time around and the checks and balances are being eroded as we speak. I hope everything works out in the end, but i would be lying if I didn't say i was a bit worried ( in general, not specifically about the F-35 situation)
Jack_Valois@reddit
What do you mean by “real power”? Specifically what powers does he have now that he didn’t in the first term, and specifically what checks and balances are being eroded?
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nspy1011@reddit
“…United States still has checks and balances “ - You sure about that? Last few weeks have shown otherwise
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HardSleeper@reddit
Depends how many rare earth minerals you have, or American nuclear submarines you have on order
Few_Bet_8952@reddit
It's more like 50 Su-57s by now. VVS has been receiving deliveries consistently since the past couple years. It has ramped up greatly since war in Ukraine began
WolfgangWeiss@reddit
And don't forget that they lost 2 of them in accidents and one Su-57 was damaged or destroyed by a drone attack
Katzo9@reddit
Only if that fleet was realiable… https://www.airandspaceforces.com/f-35-reliability-maintainability-availability-2023/
on3day@reddit
Yeahm. Not what that Article says at all. I am just going to file this under; you are stupid.
Katzo9@reddit
Oh, did I hurt your feelings? Why so sentitive? Come on, cry me a river
airfryerfuntime@reddit
You sound like you don't have sex.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
He's a Kremlinbot. In his spare time he probably has lots of cybersex with his romance-scam victims.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
Likely far more than 3%. There are only a few flying examples remaining. A large number of these things are rotting away under tarps at random airfields.
Nexa991@reddit
And if that brick misses then what? 😶🌫️
on3day@reddit
Then it was just an accident.
just_holdme@reddit
looks like an awkward first date
HarFangWon@reddit
What would their children look like?!?!
commodore002@reddit
There are other websites for that.
Asterlofts@reddit
Amazing fan art concept !
tryCatchExceptionist@reddit
Here you go: https://imgur.com/a/gv49sR8
HarFangWon@reddit
Hahaha thank you!
Easy_Macaroon884@reddit
Su-75 checkmate-ish
Acrobatic-Mind3581@reddit
AMCA
Ironman_Newage_24@reddit
Did Indian radars read F35 & SU 57 signatures? May be our IAF guys already know which aircraft is stealthy.
dayofdefeat_@reddit
Are those men on the right Russian Air Force support personnel?
They're checking out the F-35 with a keen interest.
reddit-suave613@reddit
tbf, a F-35 crew would be checking out the Su-57 with a similar interest.
Zachos57@reddit
Seeing the most modern aircraft of another nation up close is definitely a rare sight
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
The Su-57 being the 'most modern' Russian plane is pretty mad. Original design is over 40 years old, though it had some modern bling tacked on towards the end of the design process. And the design was finalised almost 20 years ago, it's just taken nearly two decades to get even a handful actually built. Still not fully flight-tested or ready to go into combat.
Didnt_know@reddit
What do you mean by "40 years old"?
T-50's first flight was in 2010. The airplane was in development since around 2002 when Sukhoi was chosen as a winner of PAK-FA program.
If you are suggesting that Su-57 is just a re-skinned Su-27 or Su-35, then you are very ignorant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vecyZHCbu4k
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
The origins of the plane are the late 1970s/early 80s - it dates back to before the end of the Cold War.
Russia rebranded the development efforts several times (because, propaganda) but they didn't really restart the design work.
"Sukhoi was chosen as a winner of PAK-FA programme [in 2002]"
The PAK-FA programme was a rebranding of the earlier programmes - LFI, MFI, originally I90 - which ended up incorporating Sukhoi's 1980s era work on the S-37, later Su-47. If you think that they managed to go from a clean sheet when the PAK-FA programme started in 2001, to awarding design/engineering contracts in 2002, I can see why you're the kind of person who'd believe Russian propaganda aimed at idiots.
Flagon15@reddit
This is a pretty nice way of telling us you have no idea what you're talking about, lol. I'd love to hear one element of the Su-57 that it shares with the Su-47 or even the MiG-1.44.
RealPutin@reddit
....what? The Su-47 was widely known as a tech demonstrator for stuff that eventually ended up in the Su-57. The avionics systems and weapons bay for instance were built on the Su-47 platform very heavily, and the thrust-vectoring setup was a development from the testing of the 47 as well
That's how plane development works, you iterate on what you innovate and it takes a while to make it all work, but the 57 definitely shares heavily with the 47.
Flagon15@reddit
No, the Su-47 was pretty much a bare bones test airframe, there were no major avionics stuff developed for it, and the overall fuselage design is way too different to reuse anything from it's internal weapons bay on the Su-57. It also never got the thrust vectoring, that was planned, but the engines were never finished. The Su-47 had some influence over the Su-35 and Su-37, but the Su-57 made a major leap in avionics, structure, materials, etc. and was a clean sheet design, not a 40 year old one as the guy claimed.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
OK, Putinbot.
bender__futurama@reddit
Really, companies recycle their old designs and dont start from absolute scratch? Who would have thought that.. Looking at B737 as an extreme example.. 🙄
Of course, they use their existing knowledge and tech, but for sure, they try to incorporate new technologies.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
"Looking at B737 as an extreme example"
You clearly haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about, if you think that's an example. But lack of knowledge is pretty standard for Kremlinbots.
bender__futurama@reddit
Are you on drugs? Or at least 18 years old. :)
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
Whut? What you said is precisely the opposite of the B737 thing. You clearly haven't a clue what you're talking about here.
Didnt_know@reddit
I don' consider someone doing a research in the 80's as a original design. Ofc manufacturers are always testing new designs and technologies, but that doesn't mean Sukhoi made something that resembles Su-57 in 1985 and kept it under development until 2010 when it first flew. Planes MiG 1.44 and Su-47 are technology demonstrators. Many of their technologies were incorporated in later designs, but you can't say Su-57 is 40 years old because Sukhoi tested some technology back then.
Is F-22 also over 40 years old because ATF programme started in 1981 and Lockheed Martin did some design testing back then? Or is B-2 80 years old because Northrop used data from their YB-35 and YB-49 projects when designing B-2?
I don't believe russians at all. They lie constantly and their technology is inferior to the western one. That is very much clear.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
"you can't say Su-57 is 40 years old because Sukhoi tested some technology back then."
No, you can say it's 40 years old because it hasn't changed very much, it was just an incredibly slow development, largely done for propaganda purposes.
"Is F-22 also over 40 years old"
Nearly. It's a late 80s/early 90s design. It went into production almost 30 years ago.
"is B-2 80 years old because Northrop used data from their YB-35 and YB-49 projects when designing B-2?"
No, that's just silly. There's a difference between using some lessons from (much) earlier flying wings when creating a completely different design, and simply tarting up some old plans. But the B-2 is about 40 years old at this point. The 'new' Russian plane is essentially of the same generation, although not as refined.
Didnt_know@reddit
Do you have any data or photo from 1985 from Sukhoi that shows something that resembles the Su-57?
The earliest photo I can find of something that resembles the Su-57 is from 2006 on this forum.
FlightGlobal also had an article in the April of 2007.
This for me is a finalized design, not some napkin math from 1985. Sukhoi started working on PAK-FA project in 1999 (I am going to correct here myself because I said 2002 in the earlier post). In 2002 they were chosen as a winner of the competition. First flight was in 2010. Design was finalized somewhere between 2002 and 2010, not 1985.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
"Sukhoi started working on PAK-FA project in 1999"
This is obviously not true.
The simple fact is that the design 'finalised' in the 2000s had taken >20 years to get to that stage, because most of the work on it stopped for \~15 years after the end of the cold war. Of course there were changes between 1980 and the start of production, but it is essentially an old Cold War design with some minor modifications.
Didnt_know@reddit
Again, not a single data source to prove that Sukhoi started working on a design in 1985 that would eventually become an Su-57.
Sukhoi was testing technologies in the 80's and 90's, but there was no T-50/Su-57 because there wasn't even a fifth gen fighter programme that Sukhoi was competing in.MFI was a different thing. That was MiG's project and Sukhoi had nothing to do with it. Manufacturers start making designs when the design specifications are published and that was in 1999 when the PAK-FA programme started. Sukhoi likely had the idea of what their new fighter might look like (especially when they saw what the Americans did in the ATF program), but without the specifications, you can't do much. You only make what the buyer (in this care russia) asks you to do. Sometimes a small changes in requirements can lead to completely different designs. That's why you don't make a final design until you are sure that someone is going to buy it.
If you provide any source that Sukhoi made Su-57 design in the 1985 and changed it just a little bit, I will gladly accept it, but as it stands now, there is not a single piece of information that confirms that.
As it stands now:
These are the facts. Everything else are fairytales and speculations.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
If you prefer Kremlin propaganda to simple common sense, I can't help you. Once again, the Sukhoi designers did not design a plane from scratch between 2001 and 2002, which was the actual length of the PAK-FA competition. They submitted pre-existing designs with some tweaks.
Didnt_know@reddit
Source?
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
Again, this is really basic common sense. That is how long the design competition lasted, according to all sources, so you seem to be just sealioning at this point. It is impossible to think, unless you're really desperate to swallow Kremlin propaganda, that this plane was designed in <2 years, when it takes at least a decade normally.
Didnt_know@reddit
1999 - 2010. It seems to me like a decade. Where did I say that Sukhoi made the plane in 2 years?
You are accusing me of swallowing a Kremlin propaganda when at the same time, you suggest that Sukhoi had a multirole stealth fighter design ready for production 1985, five years before YF-22 made its first flight. That is honestly quite impressive.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
You keep insisting that Sukhoi started from scratch for the PAK-FA competition, and had a complete-enough design to win when it ended after 2 years. That's obviously nonsense.
"you suggest that Sukhoi had a multirole stealth fighter design ready for production 1985"
Now you're making up even wilder nonsense. I haven't said anything that could be construed even close to that way, however you stretch it. What I have said is that the Su-57 is an old design, with some modern bling - like a tiny amount of very early, completely outdated stealth stuff - tacked on. Because it is.
Seriously, discard everything the Kremlin wants idiots to believe and look at this rationally. Is the Su-57 actually stealthy, or is that just a Russian propaganda claim?
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-su-57-is-marketed-as-stealth-fighter-but-radars-have-between-6-to-10-times-greater-detection-range-against-the-felon-compared-to-f-22-f-35-heres-why/
The reality is that the Russian claims that this is a 5th gen stealth fighter are complete bullshit. It's gen 4.5 if you're very generous, but really only 4th gen, lightly modified to have a slightly lower radar signature. And guess when the 4th gen designs date back to...
Are you unaware that India pulled out of the joint programme in 2018, because all the Russian claims turned out to be bullshit? Or that when the Su-57 was shown at a Chinese airshow last year, it turned into a laughing-stock?
The Su-57 appears to be quite manoeuvrable, at least under light loads, and really not very stealthy at all, which is consistent with an old design: manoeuvrability is not really important anymore, for fighters. There's overwhelming evidence that the conventional story is true, and this is a 4th gen fighter that took 30-40 years to develop, and is really only a propaganda exercise. When the Russians restarted development in the 2000s, they dusted off the old Cold War designs and polished them up a bit. It's as simple as that.
Silver996C2@reddit
And just like the T-14 Armata tank - they can’t afford to lose the few SU-57’s that they do have.
SnackyMcGeeeeeeeee@reddit
First production ate shit during flight test.
Another was hit last year by ukranian drones.
10%-35% of SU57 fleet is downed already lol
GI_HD@reddit
I don't understand the downvotes. Yes, 35% is a bit exaggerated, but 10% is pretty much it if I'm not mistaken
8Bitsblu@reddit
Really highlights the fact that the Russian Federation's productive power is a shadow of what it was during the Soviet era. Yeltsin's "Economic shock therapy" was an absolute disaster for them, with massive brain drain and parting-out of productive forces throughout the 90s.
So yeah, of course their most advanced designs since the 90s have been essentially resurrecting Brezhnev and Andropov-era programs with a fresh coat of paint. That's when all these former-Soviet states had their shit together.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
"Yeltsin's "Economic shock therapy" was an absolute disaster for them, with massive brain drain and parting-out of productive forces throughout the 90s"
This isn't quite fair. Obviously it wasn't perfect - far from it - but major economic reforms like those were going to be a problem one way or another, and they ended up working quite well, with Russia on the path to become a reasonably modern, reasonably wealthy nation. When Putin took over in 2008 and started stealing everything, they were doing reasonably well.
"Putin would never return to a planned economy"
Of course not. He's crazy and evil, but he isn't stupid :)
Flashy-Ambition4840@reddit
Su-57 did go into combat though. And with some regularity too.
Infinite_Crow_3706@reddit
Fly, land, paint a new designation number and take off again like the carrier crew used to do.
ex0e@reddit
Not sure why you're getting downvoted lol, it even has a a2a kill while flying a combat mission (although it was a friendly drone, just Russia things)
Flashy-Ambition4840@reddit
I dont mind downvotes, I know it is a very polarizing subject and people find it difficult to be objective.
OrdinaryAncient3573@reddit
Yes, but this is Russia, so they'll send their one or two working ones 'into combat' without them being ready, because propaganda.
kussian@reddit
SU-57 crew spitting F4CTS here ☝️
YeeYeeAssha1rcut@reddit
Reminds me of the first time i saw the f-35, so loud
BeneficialLeave7359@reddit
I live and work near NAS Patuxent River and can tell an F-35 from an F/A-18 without being able to see the plane.
drrhythm2@reddit
The F-35 is stealth you can’t see it anyway. Duh.
Top_Answer7906@reddit
I live and work near MCAS Miramar, and same.
jbaker88@reddit
I live near Luke AFB, along the approach corridor for landings, and you can always tell between the F-16 and F-35 lol.
icarusbird@reddit
They set off our car alarms, it's fucking maddening day in and day out. Full AB takeoff every single sortie? I know a B-course instructor who says full AB is required, but with 10,000 feet of runway? I call bullshit.
Same-Caramel5979@reddit
And no doubt highly frowned upon
pentagon@reddit
Military superiority is as much or more of a psychological game as it is a technicnological/secrecy one.
pentagon@reddit
The F-35 is very far from the most modern US aircraft.
FortressCarrowRoad@reddit
Adrian Newey is probably there checking out both.
Dlatch@reddit
Nah he sent Inspector Seb to investigate
RoverTiger@reddit
Calling Fernando with his findings right now (Lance doesn't get to know).
cvl37@reddit
r/formula1 is leaking!
Silver996C2@reddit
And laughing…
GrynaiTaip@reddit
Similar interest for different reasons. Looking at F-35 is like "I wonder what secret tech it has, that's not advertised anywhere" while looking at Su-57 is more like "How the fuck does it stay in the air? Does it have secret anti-gravity tech?"
Silver996C2@reddit
What? To learn what not to do? Snort
BrosenkranzKeef@reddit
Tbf the F-35 is a strange looking plane in my opinion, always has been. Chubby.
packtloss@reddit
Chubby? She’s called fat Amy for a reason!
Y0Y0Jimbb0@reddit
Shes a pretty lass .. Not as pretty as the SU-57 but shes still a pretty lass.
packtloss@reddit
Felon is like one of those gals who looks good in photos from far away if you squint!
M0therN4ture@reddit
Thats on purpose. Look weak when you are strong.
SpiritofFtw@reddit
Well she is American, after all.
Martha_Fockers@reddit
It’s why it’s called fat Amy !
She’s a stealthy girthy girl
PlanterDezNuts@reddit
Fat Amy!
fighterpilot248@reddit
After seeing the F-35 demo this past fall, I can tell you Fat Amy’s got some moves.
She can absolutely rip around the circle. Maybe not as fast as the F-16, but way quicker than I thought, given the nickname.
UniqueIndividual3579@reddit
Look at the competing design and you will know why it was called the "Monica jet".
Sivalon@reddit
Battle penguin
Turbulent_Trip4147@reddit
If the added a few more ribs to make the fuselage longer it would look pretty cool.
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
They’ve been watching it since it started doing sorties and landings.
wetsock-connoisseur@reddit
F35 is flying? I had read somewhere that it would be only a static display
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
Static yes but before landing they did sorties
krodders@reddit
What do you mean by "sorties"? I think you don't mean sortie
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
Sorry a typo my bad
lighthawk16@reddit
Typo for what? What did you mean to type? Sorties are fights in the air.
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
No, a sortie is a mission. A ground bombing run is a sortie.
Any combat mission, from departure to arrival, is a sortie.
Sortie is French for "exit"
The original word means to "attack from a defensive position."
It does not refer solely to dogfights
If you got sent out to drop bombs over Germany but never found a target and came back, you still flew a sortie.
It's just a fancy word for "mission", basically
lighthawk16@reddit
Sure, but what did OP mean then?
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
Idk man I just know random facts
lord_lableigh@reddit
Lmao. I was slightly tensed and this cracked me up.
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
I am brimming with stories nobody wants to hear
lord_lableigh@reddit
It was a 1 to 1 convo dude. Why do you find the time to waste on this shit and proceed to say this lol.
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
What? You do realize I'm the same guy, right?
lord_lableigh@reddit
Shit my bad man. This changes the entire context lol. Did you mean to say that you have stories that nobody wants to hear ?
I thought it was another guy taking a dig at me for saying "this cracked me". My apologies man.
lighthawk16@reddit
Fair, I appreciate the knowledge!
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
Yup. I ain't down vote you BTW. Idk why people think it's worth their time.
lighthawk16@reddit
Haha cool, the only reason I've ever found the voting to be useful on reddit is when looking for drama to read or something. Thanks again!
CrowLikesShiny@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/s/izbjw0ppk4
lighthawk16@reddit
I guess I'm curious what the typo was, or maybe wasn't in this case?
Dapper-Spot-7825@reddit
Yes! Additionally, it’s with reference to a single aircraft. So if a pair of aircraft go out, that’s two sorties.
That’s why RAF Bomber Command could fly thousands of sorties on a month in the Second World War, or a fighter pilot flew ‘four sorties a day’ during OVERLORD. It’s the number of aircraft ‘sortied’, sometimes 600 sorties in one raid.
It’s a weird term but makes sense once you get your head round it.
The_News_Desk_816@reddit
Yeah that's a really good point I forgot to include. Good looking
krodders@reddit
Yeah, but what? I don't understand. Flybys? Passes?
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
It arrived in an arrowhead formation with two F-16s and two F-35s, circled the airfield several times, and then landed one by one. I had thought this fell under the term sortie. Sorry
dris_jayd@reddit
Did this happen on Saturday? I saw three identical jets flying around 4pm. Not sure if they were the F-35s
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
Yes
dris_jayd@reddit
Sweet. Was very confused as it didn't look like any of the Dassault or sukhoi jets. Didn't know we had American jets for the air show
krodders@reddit
Thanks for this. Now I understand.
I'd say that sortie is when an aircraft takes off, goes and does a job, and returns to base. I think we use the word "mission" in the place of "sortie" nowadays.
I think that sortie is from French, and started out as a military mission. Like when an knight goes out of the castle, fucks up some shit, and comes back to the castle for some wine
Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit
"Sortie" means exit or doorway, also to leave a place.
Far_Recommendation82@reddit
Partir would be to leave know?
Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit
Sortir is "to go out" or "to leave"
Partir is "to leave" or less often "to shoot" like a gun.
But I'm no expert
krodders@reddit
In English, it's not used for exit or doorway.
In French, oui
Far_Recommendation82@reddit
noun: sortie; plural noun: sorties Learn more foray sally charge
An attack made by troops coming out from a position of defense. Similar: • an operational flight by a single military aircraft. raid flight
Similar: • a short trip or journey. "an early-morning sortie into the garden of our hotel" an attempt to participate in a new activity or sphere. "this latest book is the author's first sortie into non-fiction"
Other-Barry-1@reddit
“Wait, where are the F-35’s wood screws?”
_TheWileyWombat_@reddit
"Why aren't there gaps between the panels?"
Other-Barry-1@reddit
“Why doesn’t it have paint and weld spots all over the joints and between rivets?”
00owl@reddit
Where the turbine fan?
GetawayDreamer87@reddit
wheres the vodka dispenser?
olyfrijole@reddit
Where is bathtub meth and krokodil?
Jaegermeiste@reddit
Jokes on you, Su 57 uses sheetrock screws.
PontificatinPlatypus@reddit
How many vacuum tubes does take?
MoarCowb3ll@reddit
Damn I almost got to go to this... so bummed I'm not able to.
MoarCowb3ll@reddit
This India?
Blueflames3520@reddit
Anyone in this sub would be too. I know I would.
RockItGuyDC@reddit
Plane needs are nerding out over planes.
talktomiles@reddit
I mean, if I was an F-35 crew chief, I would be checking out the felon. It’s a different plane, so it has to be interesting.
Jag__84@reddit
*Russian accent*
"How they hold plane together without exposed rivets?"
sseurters@reddit
You ask the f22 being held with rivets , f22 prototype that is
Valaxarian@reddit
Tfw it's a decade old prototype
"But American, it's our test plane"
PontificatinPlatypus@reddit
Let them watch. They can duplicate neither the metallurgy nor the electronics, so they can drool all they want.
skippythemoonrock@reddit
"Holy shit that thing is loud"
PeteLangosta@reddit
Idk if you're implying something, but I'd check the Su-57 with a lot more interest. It's a rarer sight.
Wernher_VonKerman@reddit
Indian foreign policy is weird. I remember hearing about the time an iranian, russian and american ship were all docked in the same port there together to take part in the same naval exercise.
tryCatchExceptionist@reddit
I used to be like this in school and college. Part of friend groups that didn't get along that well. Nobody gave me shit for being friends with others, but always bitched about "your other friends" to me.
So I went around hearing all the bitching, then either sympathized with them or made excuses for the others. I had everybody as friends. Fun times.
Necessary_Assist_841@reddit
Thats a good sign, that means people can get along if they want.
RepresentativeOk3943@reddit
Thanks China for that!
Aggravating_Being831@reddit
Indian diplomacy :)
Then_Sprinkles5176@reddit
benifits of being a titan/giant
Avasterable@reddit
INDIA SUPERPOWER 2020
r3i_651413@reddit
Insane you guys were making fun of China in 2005 for the same thing, now China is influencing the elections in Europe and Canada and has a GDP larger than EU. Let's see how India looks at 2035 when it has 10 trillion GDP.
r3i_651413@reddit
!remind me 10 years
RemindMeBot@reddit
I will be messaging you in 10 years on 2035-02-10 15:38:32 UTC to remind you of this link
CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
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CobaltGuardsman@reddit
Only in population. You spend 74 billion (USD)on your military, compared to the US' 967billion. And yall only have one indigenously developed fighter. Kudos tho on being able to enrich uranium.
Ganesh0825@reddit
Well that is true but more that 75 % of that $74 billion budget goes into salary and pensions.
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
There were 2. The Marut didn’t get the proper engines due to the geopolitics of that time. Regarding the budget, it’s just that the Americans spend more than anyone else does. India is the 4th largest spender when it comes to defense. It all counts for something.
AbleArcher420@reddit
You're getting downvoted, but it's true. Everybody is eager to have India on their team. It's a very interesting facet of politics, but it's just toxic to even bring up.
airfryerfuntime@reddit
When I'm bored I watch Indian guys on YouTube make toasters out of old oil drums.
oojiflip@reddit
I'd kill to go to that airshow, the diversity in displaying aircraft is nuts
HSVMalooGTS@reddit
a flight to india is not worth killing someone
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
Tell that to the British
Ganesh0825@reddit
Tbh they came from ships
liviothan@reddit
Wow. That’s like 20% of the entire su57 fleet! Impressive they got it all there
Angrykitten41@reddit
2.33%, 1 out of 43.
EuroFederalist@reddit
That 43 (if actual number) includes ay least 10 test aircrafts and prototypes. Compare that with over 1000 F-35's and in China they've produced at least 300 J-20's.
TomcatF14Luver@reddit
You can tell who is dominant, too.
The Su-57 Felon is kneeling while F-35 Lightning is standing tall.
johnnyxx96@reddit
The Su-57 is hundred times better than F-35
EuroFederalist@reddit
Good joke.
Any_League4488@reddit
Are you one of those people who likes this ugly penguin? You are a pervert, just like those you support in politics.
wellwh0@reddit
Who is owner of F35?
lonelyRedditor__@reddit
Murica
Folding_WhiteTable@reddit
All it takes is for someone with a razor blade and a napkin to scrape off and collect a bit the F-35s RAM coating, and then Russia has that tech too.
ISTBU@reddit
They do not let people near it, I assure you.
SWatersmith@reddit
Seems like that kid got near it, I am unassured
ISTBU@reddit
The kid didn't get shot because he was a kid.
I would imagine the American jets in India are:
lord_lableigh@reddit
And you think the guys up top haven't thought of this?
EventAccomplished976@reddit
Say what you will, the Su-57 is the far more badass looking plane.
iamsorryforbeingbad@reddit
f-22 > su-57 > f-35
ShawlNot@reddit
YF-23 > F18> Your mom > F35
iamsorryforbeingbad@reddit
you are so funny
dredeth@reddit
su27>f22>su57>f35
Personal taste.
joshwagstaff13@reddit
Blasphemy.
shy247er@reddit
Paint F15 is Starscream livery and you get automatic win.
dredeth@reddit
F15 instead of Mig29? 🫣
org000h@reddit
F22 Raptor is the sexiest, meanest looking aircraft ever made.
The damn thing is 27 years old, still considered a 5th generation fighter, and holds its own against most, if not all other air superiority fighters just starting production.
Savamoon@reddit
No, Me 262 is sexiest
OkBubbyBaka@reddit
Agree, as sexy as Russian planes are. Something about the Raptor makes me feel things.
MtnMaiden@reddit
Black Widow is GOAT
nspy1011@reddit
Still upset it didn’t make it to production! What a beautiful plane
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
57 will probably out maneuver 35...
.. trouble is 57 will be long gone before it realize what happened in a real fight with 35
johnnyxx96@reddit
57 is better than 35 100%
Speckwolf@reddit
The >1,000 F-35 in service will have a hard time finding a Su-57 in the wild.
Acrobatic-Mind3581@reddit
Combined rader cross sectional of all 1000 f35 is still less than Su 57 💀 WTF
Lloyd_lyle@reddit
True stealth: can't find you if you just don't exist.
Demolition_Mike@reddit
The F-35 can beat up a clean F-16 in a dogfight while carrying air to ground ordnance itself, so I wouldn't be too sure about that. And that's before we get to the F-35's ability to yeet Sidewinders in funny directions.
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
Well theres a specific reason why I said "out maneuver" instead of saying "winning in a dogfight".
Demolition_Mike@reddit
...I don't see how you can outmaneouver the opponent and still lose the fight, all else considered equal
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
Put F35 stealth factor aside, it's beyond visual range capability means the SU57 will be blown up loooooong before SU57 sees the F35, before it even had the chance to maneuver.
Even if visual dogfight F35 will be able to hit targets behind them.
So yes, you can absolutely out maneuver the opponent and still lose the fight.
Demolition_Mike@reddit
Dogfights are always within visual range. Y'know, where maneouvering matters. That's where a loaded F-35 beat up some clean F-16s in simulated combat.
I see Pierre Sprey did really well in making people think the F-35 is a lousy dogfighter. People that have actually flown it said it feels like an F-18.
So, yeah. If you can outmaneouver your opponent, you'll win the dogfight.
Sabre628@reddit
This is 100% the truth. And I find it funny they have a B-1B there as well.
"Check out our newly upgraded missile truck with its $100 million dollar Forward Operating Targeting System"
Lost-Actuary-2395@reddit
Not to shit on the SU 57, I think it's a cool looking plane, I don't understand the downvote
Dubstepvillage@reddit
To be fair, this isn’t exactly the f-35’s good side.
Simplenipplefun@reddit
Many russian jets are gorgeous. This on included. But they've also make some hideous ones too. Sukhoi seems best at eye appeal.
LupineChemist@reddit
I always though the Mig 29 was the best looking fighter jet. Just the way the curve manages to go across the whole airframe.
But yeah, would not want to be in one against a NATO jet.
Demolition_Mike@reddit
Y'havent seen Pavel's early work, it seems. Back in the day, some guy described Sukhois like this:
"Sukhoi makes gorgeous aircraft, that they then cover in all kinds of wing fences and vortex generators until they stop trying to kill you."
I don't remember it word for word, but that was the gist of it.
esdaniel@reddit
I love the 57, but we also have to admit, the 35 is plain ugly, no wonder she's called fat. Unlike the sexy f22
Donmexico666@reddit
Maybe on the ground.
EventAccomplished976@reddit
Nah, even moreso in the air, the 35 just looks kinda… plain. While the 57 continues that awesome soviet „angry hornet“ design legacy. Looks don‘t say anything about capability of course, to ward of the „LOL Russian bot“ comments,
LuchtleiderNederland@reddit
I can't decide on whether I agree or disagree, because I love the looks of both equally
on3day@reddit
Hard disagree.
Broad-Log-125@reddit
Awesome
jonometal666@reddit
Weird seeing the 2 together so close, and I wonder if the crews exchanged any pleasantries, banter etc. I suppose I just wish we could all get along.
Interestingcathouse@reddit
Probably. They’re a bunch of dudes that like planes. I know the Russian stuff is inferior but I’ve always thought their planes look infinitely more badass.
johnnyxx96@reddit
Why is Russian stuff inferior? How did you conclude that?
NukeRocketScientist@reddit
If I were an F-35 pilot, I would totally give people custom golf balls that just said F-35 radar cross-section.
MattCW1701@reddit
Plot twist, the pilot is referring to a dimple on the golf ball!
I'm 99% certain the military has at least RF cloaking devices now. They can't make the planes invisible to the visible spectrum of light, but I'm firmly convinced they can bend radio waves around aircraft when they want. I'm also convinced that the pilots flying them might not even know of that capability.
manishsahoo300@reddit
Damn...you the Lockheed's marketing guy?
Watchguyraffle1@reddit
I kind of wonder about that sometimes. How many su-57 rated pilots can there be? They only 30 maybe 40 built. Does that mean they have 100, 200 guys that can fly?
We have 1000+ f-35s which I guess means we have well over that many pilots. If that were to get together the Russians, just by the ratio would feel like super stars.
Martha_Fockers@reddit
The average US pilot has over 8000 flying hours of experience over the Russian pilot .
The Russian crew for maintenance is far more poorly trained than the American ground crews
The Russian aerospace industry cuts corners when it comes to safety.
All this makes for a lesser pilot.
procursus@reddit
Yes, those Russian pilots are no match for superior American Ubermensch
ViktorTheGamerDK@reddit
Where do you get that 8000 hours number from? I highly doubt, that's the average
Mr06506@reddit
It literally can't be an average because an average would include rookies with just a handful of hours.
Martha_Fockers@reddit
It takes about 2 years to achieve around 2000 flight hours.
A USAF pilot in his full career will receive around 8000 flight hours in the average ten year active duty timeframe.
Karl24374@reddit
Nobody is getting 1000 hours a year rn not even a first deployment co
Flagon15@reddit
Tf are you on? 120 hours a year is something NATO nations strive for, yet only America is kinda close to achieving, but rven they aren't able to guarantee that much for everyone.
mav3r1ck92691@reddit
Quit making shit up.
ViktorTheGamerDK@reddit
According to several sources, fighter pilots and military pilots in general get 10-20 hours of flight time a month. Let's say it's 20 hours per month, 20 x 12 x 2 = 480 hours over two years. If they were to get 2000 hours over two years, they would fly ~83 hours a month.
Sources: https://simpleflying.com/military-pilots-flying-schedules-analysis/
https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-does-a-fighter-jet-pilot-have-to-fly-during-his-career
https://www.airandspaceforces.com/air-force-flying-hours-decline-again-after-brief-recovery/
https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-are-U-S-Navy-pilots-allowed-to-fly-per-month-What-are-the-consequences-of-exceeding-these-limits
AborgTheMachine@reddit
Are you including civilian hours and pilots in that 8000 hours? Because a bunch of guys I fly with and know struggled to get 1,000 hours of mil time over a 10 year commitment.
Massively depends on the frame, I guess. If you're on cargo or air refueling I'm imagining you're gonna get a ton of time.
Martha_Fockers@reddit
It’s a stat that combines transport bomber fighter into one baseline.
Fighter pilots do get less than this but still average 3-5k in lifetime .Navy pilots on ships tend to get more hours than anyone else as fighter pilots.
Russians will get around 480 hours in 5 years
ImLiushi@reddit
So you’re comparing lifetime to 5 years. How long is this lifetime you speak of?
AzraelIshi@reddit
That flying hours number is so bullshit that I cannot take anything else in the comment seriously.
Air force secretary Heather Wilson informed the senate during the readiness committee that the average pilot was flying 17 hours per month. That's 2000 hours in 10 years. Meanwhile, fighter pilots specifically flew even less than that (1680 in 10 years). For the "8000 more flyingg hours" number to be even remotely true russian pilots would have to never fly, and US pilots would have to fly for 40 years. That's an asinine number pulled out of your ass
toad__warrior@reddit
According to the 119th fighter squadron, 110 hrs per year.
XysterU@reddit
Do you have any source for this other than your ass?
-_TOx1C_-@reddit
im currently in the italian air force, and we barely get 200 hours yearly of flight time, ALL nato countries are like that, even america.
Gary_the_metrosexual@reddit
30 built? You are optimistic. That's according to Russia and they well... have this tendency to exaggerate their production.
Watchguyraffle1@reddit
Right. And to my point as mentioned in this thread pilots spend a shockingly few hours over their careers in the seat. Yet the jets are in operation as much as they can be.
I’d imagine that the Russian jets are mostly broken and their operational readiness doesn’t required 100 guys sitting around waiting for Ivan to land to figure out who is going up next.
JoshuaStarAuthor@reddit
when I was a KC-10 pilot at Travis AFB, we occasionally had to be escorts for the Russians coming over for START treaty verification (where they would fly over our nuclear missile sites to confirm the US is in compliance). All the Russians I interacted with were super chill and cool dudes, definitely someone I'd hang out with, but they didn't give a fuck about the START treaty or anything, all they wanted to do was go to the Class Six and load up on cheap booze.
Far_Dragonfruit_1829@reddit
During the cold war my father flew international weather research missions for NASA side by side with Soviet crews. (Some IGY thing I think) Somewhere I have a letter from one of the Soviet pilots, including remarks about being happy they never flew against each other as adversaries. (Although they might have. Dad was USMC air in Korea)
Silent_Neck9930@reddit
American pilots gifted the Russians a brick and the Russians gifted a balloon to the Americans
AnnoyedCrustacean@reddit
Is the balloon full of poison? Dastardly!
koltontrombly47@reddit
I have the same 57 from flight sim
moving0target@reddit
The Su57 looking over at the F35:
I could have been something.
Few_Bet_8952@reddit
It's probably thinking "Thank god I'm not that fat monstrosity"
glebychyasher@reddit
Piece of 💩 and perfection
WirelessWavetable@reddit
Hell yeah Fat Amy! Show em what 43,000lbs of thrust out of a single engine sounds like.
JoshS1@reddit
To be fairly that's about exactly one C-17 engine, but the C-17 doesn't have cool candle effects.
manishsahoo300@reddit
Petition to the USAF to make C-17 bomber with afterburner. I know they can with their bottomless budget.
Vacuum-energy@reddit
It sounds bloody good. Was there at the 2023 edition of Aero India.
DarkKnight_2k@reddit
Same! I was hopeful for a VTOL
Maverick1672@reddit
Unfortunately it won’t be the last…
Actually_i_like_dogs@reddit
Wasn’t there a dog fight between these two today? SU crashed
YouKilledChurch@reddit
That was a SU-25. Not sure what the Ukrainian plane was but it wouldn't be a 35. They don't have any, but they do have F-16s as well as a bunch of European fighters and old Soviet planes
Actually_i_like_dogs@reddit
Word thanks for explaining without ripping me lol.
wilsonianuk@reddit
Got a link to the report/article?
Actually_i_like_dogs@reddit
It’s a top post right now. Doesn’t look like a dog fight now tho.
TheCrudMan@reddit
Are we fighting aliens?
QuaintAlex126@reddit
Aliens entering Earth’s atmosphere in their space-optimized aircraft on their way to smacked out of the sky by a bee flying at Mach 2+ from over tens of nmi away
Manasvi6944@reddit
No Will Smith will smack the shit out of them
awhiteasscrack@reddit
Why do Russians paint their planes and Americans do not?
Khamvom@reddit
Americans do paint their planes. They’re generally painted in a neutral gray b/c this color is more effective across a wider range of environments. It’s also cheaper and easier to maintain.
Visual camouflage also isn’t a huge factor when it comes to American fighter aircraft. Stealth, technology, & tactics are the priority.
FencerPTS@reddit
Is this a T-50 or a Su-57? Because there's a difference.
star_trek12@reddit
This one is T-50-04, the same one that was flying in Zhukhai last year.
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
T 50. This is used for air shows piloted by Sukhoi test pilot sergey bogdan. Same one in zhuhai
dvd_00@reddit
sukhoi looks beautiful compared to the f35.
Danitoba94@reddit
Might just be a camera trick. But that 57 sits further nose-down than i was expecting.
bender__futurama@reddit
Yeah, considering their tactics of using unpaved or improvised runways, you would think that they would have higher landing gears.
SyrusDrake@reddit
F-35 at home:
MrMrRogers@reddit
Nah, I think it's more of an F-22 type
SyrusDrake@reddit
Yea, fair enough, but we only have a F-35 in the picture.
Straight-Knowledge83@reddit
J-35 is F-35 at home
totally-jag@reddit
Bet there are two flight crews staring each other down wishing they could go at it in the air.
Few_Imagination_4902@reddit
The way things are going, this likely won’t be the last time either…
sseurters@reddit
Kino
revbillygraham53@reddit
Now, have a mock dog fight, and let's find out which plane and pilot is #1.
DarkKnight_2k@reddit
And I thought 2023 was a peak moment in the airshow's history. Insane...
bobs_loving_endian@reddit
What happened in 2023???
DarkKnight_2k@reddit
My favourite highlights were these (in no order):
So much happened! And this time, I can't believe they got the Su57 prototype too.
DestoryDerEchte@reddit
One of them is not like the other
wrongwayup@reddit
Lol. Can see the radar reflectors from here
kussian@reddit
I would like the quality of the photo to be better. So I can use it as a wallpaper
Tsundare_Mai@reddit (OP)
https://x.com/connect_rishav/status/1888168277844910117?s=46
Here
rinkoplzcomehome@reddit
The only thing I love about the SU-57 is how it sounds like a TIE fighter lol
Drunkelves@reddit
Those Vermont green mountain boys pretty far from home.
Manasvi6944@reddit
Damn smooth shot
QuietLie3031@reddit
The Su-57 looks slimmer & better.
LoudMusic@reddit
I realize it's not about the creature comforts, but what are the cockpits like in different nationality fighter aircraft? Are some noticeably more ergonomic / comfortable?
Mao_Kwikowski@reddit
Fox 2!
bach123479@reddit
VTANG! My home unit
Gramerdim@reddit
inserts that pic of a wolf and bear staring at each other
Asleep_Dot2095@reddit
Where is this?
AshMain_Beach@reddit
Bangalore, India for Aero India 2025 air show
tose123@reddit
I like the camo pattern of it
Silent_Neck9930@reddit
Bombastic side eye