What's everyone's least favorite thing in Xena? It could be anything like an episode, character, trope, etc.
Posted by mickeyhellhound@reddit | xena | View on Reddit | 199 comments
Mine is Xenas never ending line of doppelgangers. There are 4 or 5 in total i believe and that's just too many, lol. One or two is acceptable, but any more than that is just way over done imo.
Evilbuffy14@reddit
By far, Gabrielle's hair cut. Who's terrible decision was that?
Parraiso@reddit
One thing that would always make me laugh was whenever it was Xena vs 10+ goons, she’d take on like 1-6 of em at a time.. while the rest were literally just running around bumping into each other lmao. Maybe tighter camera work would’ve helped, but logistics were never an important concern. This was especially obvious in tavern fights or when she was up against the armies of Athena, etc that one time while defending baby Eve.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yea but that's a common thing with a lot of actions shows. The hero/heroine fights 30+ but only like 3 at a time while the rest just...stand there and wait their turn? Lol
Parraiso@reddit
Exactly lol just hilarious seeing them run around.. or plain ol standing. Doubt that was intentional
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
I cant stand Callisto, she was the human personification of a hemorrhoid. Granted I was pleased with her becoming clean and an angel and all that. But everything before that, and basically after her intro episode, I just wish that bitch would get lost. I did not find her character appealing at all, and overall (Im not completely umempathetic, I get why people dont like Xena Destroyer of nations) I just couldnt stand how Xena's past constantly was shoved in her face (I also get thats the point of the show, from her to learn and grow from her past). Lastly Ares not leaving Xena alone 😭😭😭😭 like go away pls
Latte-Catte@reddit
😂😂😂 im wheezing
I agree btw, if Ares wasn't played by the gorgeous and charming Kevin Smith, he would be extremely creepy. Thank god for Mr. Smith's charm otherwise I bet the writers would get so much backlashes for this character😂
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
Exactly, Kevin Smith really played the character well and definitley made him morre digestible. The scene that makes me cringe to this day is when Xena was "gonna make a baby with him" and she bites his hairy nip 😂😭
Latte-Catte@reddit
Xena always overplay her flirtatiousness, with Ares above all. I can imagine it's because they needed to sell this Xena/Ares thing super badly just so they could subtly push forth Xena/Gabrielle. Without Ares playing the love-struck unrequited love, I'm sure Xena/Gabrielle wouldn't have happened. Which is why I'll accept the creepy Ares, how very Greek god of him 😂
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
Also dont even get me started on Gabrielle's gaslighting ass in the episode where she got Solen killed.
Shegoessouth@reddit
Gabrielle jumping from cult to cult and absolutely never learning is by far the most annoying thing in the show to me.
Gabby today would definitely be in an MLM, bring on the downvotes.
The twilight of the Gods. I hated that idea. Eve was a tough pill in general but the fact that in order for her to be born ALL the gods had to die???? Insane in a show set in ancient Greece.
Deepdarkorchid16@reddit
I tend to prefer the serious episodes to the comedic ones in general. I DO love the whole series, but I never warmed to Salmoneus. I just always found him slimy and annoying.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yea, i could see that, but I honestly liked him. And it seems not caring for the silly episodes seems to be a common theme in the comments, but I honestly love them. It's a nice little pallet cleanser to some of the intense episodes and seriousness. But of course, I understand where you're coming from, too!
BlueSonic85@reddit
The Roman Empire - don't get me wrong, there are some very good individual Roman episodes (although some bore the life out of me) but as a whole, the Romans just don't fit into Xena's world. I think this is shown by the inconsistent ways in which the writers depict how much of a presence they actually have in Greece. Karl Urban could have played someone loosely based on Caesar rather than Caesar himself (much like in Season 1, there was a character based on Abraham, but he wasn't actually Abraham).
The Debt - controversy time! I do actually enjoy Part 1, but Part 2 bores me. I also don't find the central conflict very convincing. I don't think Gabrielle would assume that Xena's redemption would be completely undone by assassinating one evil tyrant and I really don't think the way she'd try to prevent that is betraying her to said tyrant.
Latte-Catte@reddit
I am an ancient rome fan so I personally adore the roman empire storyline. Not to mention some of Xena's adversary are all immortals, and monster entity that makes it hard for me to believe Xena could just simply kick their butt and leave. At least Caesar is a mortal adversary, and Xena is a warrior first so it make sense she'd be against Caesar who's invading her homeland.
I agree with the Debt pt. 2. Ming Tien turned out rather disappointing. Instead of focusing on Gabrielle, they could've used those screentime to show us why Ming Tien is so terrible that Lao Ma wanted to make her own son small. By the end when Xena killed Ming Tien we don't end up finding out whether that's for the greater good or Xena simply done it out of vengeance. If Xena done it out of bloodthirst to avenge Lao Ma, then we should have seen Xena facing some consequences for her action - maybe Gabrielle (her jimmy cricket) should've punish her more, not because of jealousy for (dead) Lao Ma!
We need more Xena doing wrong moments in the show, and Gabrielle reprimanding her.
BlueSonic85@reddit
I'm an Ancient Rome fan too. I loved Spartacus for instance. I just feel they were awkwardly crowbarred into Xena.
Good point about Ming Tien not having enough screen time. And yeah fair point that Gabrielle may have been partly acting out of jealousy which makes her betrayal even worse!
Latte-Catte@reddit
I get it, it felt like Brutus, Crassus, and even Pompey was vastly underused, and misused in Xena. If they were to be enemy I wish they had more political brightness instead of consistenly getting outwitted in battle by Xena in so many occasion. My one fuss about Xena is also how bloody tiny those armies are. It's not like those group fights are well-chereographied anyway couldn't they just hired more extras for these parts? But Karl Urban made a good Julius Caesar, he felt so headstrong and ambitious, I honestly thought he made a better Caesar than the Caesar in Spartacus :) (my own little nitpick about Spartacus, really).
BlueSonic85@reddit
Pompey to my mind is one of the most interesting characters in history. XWP depicted him as just a wannabe dictator, a carbon copy of Caesar. But in real life, he made a big show about how he could have made himself dictator but chose not to. He seemed to want the senate to freely acknowledge he was the greatest man in Rome rather than forcing them to as Caesar ended up doing - perhaps because he came from quite a humble family and so craved respect in a way the aristocratic Caesar didn't.
Obviously XWP didn't really have the scope to get into any of that and to be fair I generally enjoyed Jeremy Callaghan's performance (hot take but I actually liked him better than Urban), but it would have been interesting to see how Pompey would have been presented had the Triumvirate spin-off of Spartacus not been scrapped.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Yes, somehow the warrior princess managed to play all these iconic roman figures for fool. Pompey was one of history's great military strategist, if he was the real pompey the amazons would've gone extinct. But tbf Spartacus made Pompey out to be that sleazy, glory-thief to Crassus' victory as well.
My main beef with that Caesar was not due to Callaghan's performance (I love that character), but how they made Caesar out to be this rash, honorable roman man, when in truth he should've been portrayed closer to Crassus in the show. The real life Marcus Crassus' only successful campaign was really defeating Spartacus, Caesar was the actual fighters during his young militant days. I have no qualm with Callaghan, just the writers' choice of portraying young Caesar. Urban's Caesar felt closer to how real life Caesar might've acted like; an overconfident, ambitious man who firmly believes he'd be the grent Rome.
I did not know they were going to make a Pompey spinoff! I would have prefer that than the fictional character Ashur.
BlueSonic85@reddit
Pompey taking the glory for putting down Spartacus' uprising actually happened. Although arguably, Crassus was making heavy weather of it and Pompey had to finish the job.
Sorry, my bad - Callaghan played Pompey in XWP, Todd Lasance played Caesar on Spartacus. Yes, I agree Spartacus probably depicted him as a bit too noble.
Yeah, I dunno how far the idea got before it was scrapped but in the last episode of Spartacus, Crassus says 'We shall stand fearsome triumvirate, with means to bend the course of history' which was intended to be a teaser to a potential Triumvirate spin-off. I'm looking forward to House of Ashur but I think I would have preferred that too.
Latte-Catte@reddit
And in both show, they should've shown a bit of friendship and mutual respect between Caesar and Pompey, since that's the relationship in their real-life counterpart :)
RinjiDes@reddit
Hard agree on the dopplegangers. There are too many!
I’m also not a huge fan of Xena and Gabrielle hating on Joxer so much. I love his character so it’s hard to watch them bully him at times.
Also, this isn’t as big of a deal like the last two but the man in The Boys plays Caesar AND Cupid. That role could’ve gone to someone else.
jkrowlingdisappoints@reddit
He also plays the villainous brother in the Abraham and Isaac episode in Season 1
ReexaminedDinosaur@reddit
And a caveman, Kor, I think in season 5 or 6.
jkrowlingdisappoints@reddit
Oh yeah, I forgot about that one! To be fair, that episode wasn’t actually supposed to be part of Xena - it was the pilot for a different show that didn’t get picked up, and they wanted to get it aired. So they weren’t really planning to have him in role #4 on Xena.
ReexaminedDinosaur@reddit
I didn't know that! Huh, interesting.
RinjiDes@reddit
I haven’t seen those seasons yet so I’ll keep an eye out for him
aqueladaniela@reddit
I don't remember for sure but wasn't that meant like a prehistoric ancestor of Caesar?
ReexaminedDinosaur@reddit
I'm not 100% sure, I'm not super deep on the lore, I'm doing my first rewatch because I was a kid when it aired.
I just love me some Karl Urban lol.
RinjiDes@reddit
Damn how did I miss that?
aqueladaniela@reddit
I was gonna add that haha
Latte-Catte@reddit
Hey! More Karl Urban is never bad!
I'm glad he got more recurring roles, he was a fantastic actor even at that age. Hearing his little interview to his role in Xena was really cute when he was only just a young, inexperienced actors on set with other big stars.
Jammed-Glock@reddit
I just view it as Joxer is that annoying kid brother they can’t shake but still love. Gabrielle and Xena are both heartbroken when Joxer dies the first time in Been There, Done That.
And when Joxer gets jumped and robbed they both make it their mission to avenge him.
They give him a lot of shit but at the end of the day he’s THEIR idiot little brother and if anyone else gives him shit then they will rue the day.
RinjiDes@reddit
That’s so so true but it still upsets me cuz he’s got a heart of gold when it comes to Xena and Gabrielle
Latte-Catte@reddit
I think its the writers fault if anything, I'm sure Xena and Gabby treat Joxer nicer offscreen, we just never got to see it. The writers needed Joxer to be this comedic fallout character so much, they butchered his character by season 5.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yes, the reusing of the same actors/actresses for 3+ different characters was so odd. Lol
Agent8699@reddit
It was a necessary evil given they filmed in New Zealand and the local acting pool is a lot smaller than elsewhere.
sjcs1@reddit
sometimes the writing like when i think too hard about it it hurts my brain the best example is the opening of the debt when gabrielle says “is the green dragon a person” and then says “which person” no one no one talks like that it’s only to set up the killer line of “the one i’m gonna kill”
Latte-Catte@reddit
tbf, english is the only language that don't use these flowery idioms; I can easily see that properly translated just right in chinese.
sjcs1@reddit
renee o’connor delivers lines with constant geninue delivery and the lines sometimes suck
Latte-Catte@reddit
oh I very much agree; but the way the actors say so corny line with such commitment is all part of the cheese haha
Jammed-Glock@reddit
I love the episodes with Xena’s dopplegangers!
“ You’re NOT Xena.” sob squeaks in response “ NoImPrincessDiana!”
“ Xena for once can you just play along.” “ 🙄 All right… Oh gee Gabrielle who is it? I simply have to know. The suspense is killing me (chuckles)… Diana.”
“ Nope.” “ Meg!” “ Guess again.” “…?”
Latte-Catte@reddit
Hestia Priest was a hilarious episode. Even better knowing how gleeful Lucy gets playing her doppelgangers!
BytheSea47@reddit
I AM THE HOLY WOMAN!!!
Latte-Catte@reddit
"you see when a centaur, and a cyclop walk into a bar..." reminds me of tyrion's "I once brought a jackass and a honeycomb into a brothel....” joke lmao
vaillacinnamon@reddit
PWAISE HESTIA!
sapphicmari110504@reddit
Pwaise hestia!!!!
Jammed-Glock@reddit
“ I was MARRIED at the time.”
“ Oh yes we all have our little excuses don’t we?”
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Lol yea i remember that episode, and like I said to someone else, I don't mind the episodes and they can definitely be fun to watch, but it just seemed to be a little overdone for my tastes.
It's like the same plot twist being played over and over again.
Jammed-Glock@reddit
Nah I get it. We just have a difference of opinion.
I’m not a huge fan of Married with Fishsticks or Lyre, Lyre Hearts on Fire. I know some people love those episodes though.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yes, and I love to hear everyone's different opinions on it. That's why I made this post. It's so fun to compare and hear everyone's different thoughts and takes on the show.
BytheSea47@reddit
Time jump. Such a played out gimmick.
Critical_Success_936@reddit
The pregnancy plots.
BytheSea47@reddit
I skip all the pregnant Gabrielle episodes and most of the Xena ones. Except the one where Xena gets hit in the face with the phantom pie.
Latte-Catte@reddit
I thought pregnant Xena was a cute shift. But, I can agree it went on for too darn long. They spent the entire first half of season 5 on pregnant Xena 🤦🏻♀️
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I'd be so happy if the whole Hope crap was taken out completely. Hated every bit of it. I debate skipping the episodes every time I rewatch.
Fun-Reporter8905@reddit
Minya
Just an annoying copy cat
Alti … just annoying
hottamale1969@reddit
Callisto’s scream. Sorry might be an unpopular opinion.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Too high pitched, it isn't threatening just grating. I prefer Hudson's warcry when she played Xena.
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
Yuuuuppp, it reminded me of a bratty toddler in a walmart having a temper tantrum cause their mom said no
Latte-Catte@reddit
Peace Gabrielle made no sense. Felt like it was done just to give Eli some justification for existing. If they were going to go that route I wish it had more internal motivation from Gabby's part. Like how she need this religious journey to help her cope with lost of Hope, lost of her blood innocence, and forgiving Xena; then at the very least I can accept peaceful Gabrielle. Making Gabby all defenseless and refuse to fight back make no sense after season 3.
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
For me, i would say justification for his overall existence, but more of it was done to give Eli some justification for being with Xena and Gabrielle at all, or Xena and Gabrielle giving a fuck at all. Cause I remember at first Xena was like "get your one god nonsense out of my face" and Gabrielle was the one that was like "no wait lets listen to him."
Latte-Catte@reddit
If only Xena continue to mistreat Eli in that way, which would make for some decent comedic moments between the two. But the writers wrote Xena around just to believe in this Eli, and suddenly the dynamic was ruin. They just had to relegate Xena and Gabrielle to Eli's sanctimonious level.
And I hated how they wanted to shoehorn Eli x Gabrielle so bad in this journey, it just disrespect Gabrielle's character, like Gabby went on this journey because she fell for this Jesus-lite man. I would just pretend this secret plot never existed.
lizard1020@reddit
It goes without saying, but the finale. However, I really hate the Ulysses episode. I skip it every single time
Latte-Catte@reddit
They tried so hard to give limelight to a bad character.
sapphicmari110504@reddit
Oh yeah same I didnt like It at all
aqueladaniela@reddit
Rachel Blakely's 10sec of screen make it worth it for me - big fan since The Lost World. Also love how the actor that plays Professor Challenger - Peter McCauley - is in I believe at least 2 episodes of Xena
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Fair. And yea, the finale was a bit disappointing. It did make me sob though
OrangeClyde@reddit
For me something very minor was the inconsistency or not calling the other lands by their xenaverse old day names. For example Japan was Jappa, China was Chin, India was Indus, but there were episodes where I guess the writers forgot those names and used the modern names when referring to them
Latte-Catte@reddit
Not to mention, the Indus Valley might as well stretched across the middle east to south asia lmao. It was clearly India, they could've called it Bharat (india old name before the british), or Hindustan since they're exploring hinduism anyway.
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I just see it as different names for the same place, just like we do.
It's like when I talk about a certain Southern U.S. city, instead of using the name on a map, I just call it 'a shithole'. (Because I've been there multiple times and that place will get so much praise, but I'm like, "What are you talking about? This place is a literal shit-hole. It sucks. It's awful. It's a totally polluted stinking death-trap. I feel like my life is not only in danger, but I'm actually slowly dying from breathing the air.")
ClassofherOwn@reddit
That bothered me too.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I didn't even notice that. Good eye!
Bryrida@reddit
Ephinys death, solans post-death fate, Joxer’s death
Fuzzy-Bass8535@reddit
The idea that solan could choose Tartarus didnt sit with me. And that nobody else in the elesian fields are real?? That just really confused me and I wanted nothing to do with it
Bryrida@reddit
Right? I almost personally consider that episode non canon
aqueladaniela@reddit
The episode Ephiny and Brutus die is just so good though. I do dislike their deaths.
aqueladaniela@reddit
The way our heroines treat Joxer 9 out 10 interactions
How Malleager almost lost his life because Xena chose to follow the law - until she didn't. I gotta say, even if he had killed kill the guy, why couldn't he get a pass when he spent decades helping people and doing good and Xena spent years being evil and slaughtering innocents?
The whole love is the way arc - Gabrielle holding Cyrene and watching everyone else fight Discord's goons in Takes One To Know One drives me crazy
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yes, it hurts my heart every time they treat him so badly because he'd die for them.
I also agree with your take on Malleager. She's done far worse things, idk why she didn't at the very least give him the benefit of the doubt. She chose to trust the judge over Gabrielle, which annoyed me a little too.
aqueladaniela@reddit
He died for Gabrielle in Been There Done That and then again in Eve. And he risked dying to save Argo in Intimate Stranger (not knowing it was Xena and not Callisto). But my favourite "Joxer is a true friend" moment is when the girls are hanging on the crosses and he tells Eli and Amarice he is gonna get them out with or without their help. 🦁❤️
RainbowMisthios@reddit
That moment you described with Joxer observing Xena and Gabrielle on the crosses is what really sold me on his character. It showed how much he loved both of them -- not just in love with Gabrielle, he loved Xena as deeply as someone whom he simply could not bear to live without.
FirebirdWriter@reddit
Just rewatched that one and I cried so hard. I am dreading the next episode because he DOES die for them in it and just ... Virgil is not a replacement for Joxer
aqueladaniela@reddit
You watched Fallen Angel, you mean?
And I like Virgil (and Eve, for that matter) but agreed, Joxer left a hole on the show that they couldn't fill.
FirebirdWriter@reddit
If that's the title yes. I don't have them all memorized. I do like Virgil but wish he was allowed to be himself vs Joxer's hereditary crush
aqueladaniela@reddit
I didn't remener neither which is why I didn't name it originally, I had to search lol
And yes omg it is so weird that the writers decided to make a generational crush on Gabrielle. But hey that's Ancient Greece, I guess.
FirebirdWriter@reddit
I guess. It's so weird. I would find it less creepy if he has a crush on Eve who is at least age Appropriate
aqueladaniela@reddit
Didn't Joxer also have a thing for Lila on It Takes One To Know One? 🙈
FirebirdWriter@reddit
Yes. That's actually part of the reason I called it genetic.
theseedbeader@reddit
Omg, Joxer’s face as they are taking Xena and Gabrielle’s bodies off the crosses. 😭
aqueladaniela@reddit
Joxer: "I've been having dreams that Xena and Gabrielle are in trouble" [Amarice points] 🥺
theseedbeader@reddit
Sooo heartbreaking. The way he fell to his knees. :(
And he immediately said he’s going to get them home and properly buried together, when the others weren’t willing to take on the Romans themselves.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
He's such a sweet guy, I loved his character the whole time, and his evolution throughout the show was beautiful.
Jammed-Glock@reddit
But the girls also went to bat for Joxer when he was jumped/robbed/con. Xena made it her mission to completely ruin the man that ordered his beating.
aqueladaniela@reddit
King Con and Eternal Bonds are episodes they really value and cherish Joxer being around.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I also wish her and that guy(i forget his name) had more screen time together. Maybe a few episodes and then eventually end the relationship, but I loved their chemistry.
Jammed-Glock@reddit
Are you talking about Rafe?
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yes, I think so! The con artist guy.
Jammed-Glock@reddit
Yes. That’s Rafe.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Yes, i was literally just thinking about that episode. I loved how hard she went after that jerk.
hermit198388@reddit
Joxer deserved better, agreed.
About Meleager, I guess she was consistent because she was willing to face the law herself later on in the series. I like that Gabrielle tried the way of love and non-violence but also like that she gave it up; I think she needed to go through that. If her place wasn't beside Xena, it likely would have worked out better for her, but as it was, it was inevitable she would give it up.
aqueladaniela@reddit
She was "whatever floats her boat" most of the times. She could be sympathetic or relentless. Give another chance or play judge and executor. Marcus, Tara, Callisto, Livia/Eve, Najara, Pompeii, Ming Tiem... I don't personally disagree with most of her judgement on these examples, but then you throw in Malleagar The Mighty, an old man that was always good and might have killed a man and she accepts defeat instead of helping her friends' friend escape... but she, The Conqueror Of Nations and her daughter, the B1tch of Rome, get to go free? Mmmm 😬
- A Good Day and The Ides Of March show one of my fvt shades of Gabrielle. I love it when she has the warrior in her eyes ❤️🔥. I do agree it was a necessary path for her to go through, I wish it didn't have to be so blinding and extreme like she and Eve take it
aqueladaniela@reddit
Ps: and is is interesting because ultimately she does help him, but the distraught Gabrielle trying to stop Xena from capturing her friend always breaks my heart and is enough for me to rule it bs. Just let the man go. Of course, at the end it was a good thing he was forced to stay, because he got cleared instead of living like a fugitive. But it could have ended terribly. Gabrielle smiling at him from the cell's window omfg 😭💔
aqueladaniela@reddit
I really like Eli, Gabriel, good Callisto and Eve. So I guess my problem with "the way of love" is the amount of times Gabrielle went back to being Season 1's "women and kids with me" while Xena (and even Joxer and Lila!) were fighting 🙈
Latte-Catte@reddit
Yesss, wish we got one episode where Joxer just had enough of the bad treatment.
LordofWithywoods@reddit
Unpopular opinion: there are just too many damn fight sequences
When you binge the show, they really get kind of tiresome. At the same time, xena's athleticism and warrior skills are essential to who she is, but...
I would have been happy with half as many fighting scenes. After awhile, I find myself checking out.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Some of the fights are so poorly done that it might as well not happen. But some chereography are so beautifully done and exciting that I can forgive the many terrible fights.
hermit198388@reddit
Haha, I get what you mean (and also on occasion check out during fight scenes), but yeah, this will definitely not be a popular opinion! I'm one of those who mainly watches for the relationship, the philosophical questions, plot, and adventure. Some of the fight scenes are great and riveting, but in general those aren't my thing in TV shows or movies.
Tricky_Direction_897@reddit
The finale. Ok as episodes, not ok for the last week see of our heroes.
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
MY LEAST favorite thing would be the Christian storylines, GIVE ME SOME GREEK GODS not the ONE GOD.
the other would be our SMART thinking Gabrielle CONSTANTLY joining cult like gangs trying to find meaning of life
Agent8699@reddit
The smart thinking Gabrielle ran away from home, leaving everything and everyone she had ever known, to follow a warlord with a list of murders and assorted other atrocities longer than the Great Wall of Chin!
Latte-Catte@reddit
To be fair to Gabrielle, it is Xena the warrior princess she dropped everything for :)
Agent8699@reddit
I mean, those eyes, the leather …
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
HEY she can read and write, that makes her smarter than most people in her village hahaha, I'd take off 1st chance I'd get too.
sapphicmari110504@reddit
OH YES I AGREE
aqueladaniela@reddit
Thank god cause the chakram, Callisto's scream and the outfits I was like ?!?!?!!?
Latte-Catte@reddit
If anyone could hate all that I'd be shock they even watch the entire show at all 😂
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
OMFG I’m so glad I re read the post cuz IMAGINE!? Those are like the BEST parts of the show
Latte-Catte@reddit
It is criminal that Xena chose to introduce more Greek gods like Hephaestus, Athena, Zeus, Hera and Artemis after FIVE SEASON, on a fantasy show all about Greek mythos!!
If it's budget I'd understand but they clearly wasted so much episodes on abrhamic legends in the first 2 seasons instead of investing on more Greek mythos. Even the two Poseidon episodes we got only flash Poseidon for like a good 2 minutes!
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I agree about our intelligent Gabrielle falling for religion...
BUT, the thing about this world of Hercules & Xena... is that gods are real. So it's not really 'falling for anything'. Though, it's still stupid and weak, but for the sake of ongoing storytelling and drama, I can see it.
And I like that they included Christianity with the Greek and Roman religion/gods because that sends a message to viewers that, 'Hey, that idiotic religion you're a part of... it's no different than all the other fake religions you correctly see as fictional'.
I just dislike that they did that deus-ex-machina with shining a light on Livia to suddenly turn her good - it was fucking stupid, a little too much like a Christianity story that makes no sense.
I didn't like that Xena acquiesced to 'God', but I did appreciate Season Six turning that around a bit and having God turn on Xena. Very true to character (from the 'Bible') for God to turn on his friends and have them killed - what an asshole.
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
I mean Gabby trying to find meaning in life thru religion is kinda redundant when she LITERALLY hangs with ACTUAL Gods that rule over their world. Like her asking Xena if she believes there can be a one true God when the week before she RELEASED THE TITANS who ruled the earth before man and Gods....its weird like they have actual proof their religion is correct hahaha
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I guess Gabby wanted a more "forgiving" god "of love" (without the sexualization that Aphrodite brought to it).
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
GOT IT!! I can see that...but again...weird that the actual god of war/love is like their friend / frenemy and the KING of Gods birthed her bestfriend's savior and she's like yeaaaaaaah no thank you Id rather take my chances on the God of Light with the creepy temple/altar 😂
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Holy crap, yes. I don't understand why that ceap needed to be in this show AT ALL. It's a show on Greek mythology, but you bring in the Christian god? Tf?
Yes, she was so easily fooled and manipulated, but anything and anyone that CLAIMED it was good. Drove me nuts. Lol
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I thought it was really cool to show the transition of Greek/Roman gods to this overwhelming new religion that swallowed most of the world.
And as I said in a previous response: it's great to show viewers (many of whom, statistically, would be religious) that their religion is fictional like all other religions.
I was a kid when that aired and I think it certainly helped me to realize the truth and become an atheist - though I'm sure I was already getting there, but I do think my favorite show subliminally pointing it out to me helped (that Christianity is total fiction too).
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
That's actually a really good way to take it. I honestly didn't see it that way, i saw it as throwing it in there because the christian god seems to always need to be shoved down our throats and I thought this was just another way to do it. But your take makes so much more sense, and I actually have a different understanding of it now. Ig I'm just biased cuz I'm so tired of hearing about God all the time, so when that religion got brought into the show, I was like, "oooof course." Lol
AuntyEmfromOz@reddit
Friend in Need 1 and 2!!!
Sharkfestive@reddit
Joxer.
Agent8699@reddit
It’s a tie between:
Oh, and season 5 : )
Latte-Catte@reddit
While Xena is always treated as correct, I feel the writers certainly brought her journey to the wrong end!
Also, wish we got more Argo episode too. Argo is just as underdevelop as Joxer 😔.
livenudecats@reddit
Joxer’s hat.
I love campy off-the-rails tv so I can tolerate most of the dumb plots and ridiculous comic relief characters but oh my god give him a less stupid hat.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Ted Raimi also hated his armor. Apparently they were extremely heavy and clunky. And the chest plate in the middle is actually a flatten vegetable strainer according to Lucy 😂. So canonically Joxer basically fashion this homemade junk into an armor and wears it proudly!
You definitely couldn't hate the ugly hunk more than Ted himself.
KingOfTheFraggles@reddit
My biggest miss was that we never got the backstory on how Xena got the Chakram. There were allusions to the origin but we never got anything concrete.
Agent8699@reddit
We basically got it - Ares stole it from the temple with help from Kal, betrayed Kal and then gave it to Xena. It’s an unsatisfactory origin story for such an iconic weapon, but that’s what they gave us.
Latte-Catte@reddit
This is why fans write fanfictions 😔
Cyberfaust11@reddit
It's nice that they kept something a mystery.
Cyberfaust11@reddit
Hudson Leick should have been Livia/Eve.
People that oppose that idea say, 'Eve should be her own character and not an actor we already have seen'.
Yet, every main actor plays multiple characters (doppelgangers).
And Eve would still be a different character with Hudson playing her.
I think the creators considered Hudson (they even said so) and decided not to out of respect to Lucy.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
What do you mean when you say out of respect for Lucy?
Cyberfaust11@reddit
Oh come on, guys/gals. You know Lucy didn't "get on" with Hudson. No one knows why, we can only speculate. But the white-knights that see themselves as the defenders of "Flawless" will pitch a fit if it's brought up.
Latte-Catte@reddit
There was no way they were going to cast Hudson as Eve in the first place? By season 5 they've already make the most use of Callisto as they can, the story was already evolving into bumpy territories where Callisto cannot follow. That's why they use divine intervention as the mean to redeem Callisto.
While Lucy and Hudson had their differences, they were very professional people who are more than capable of working together as seen several times. And their acting chemistry was some of the best in the show, I see no issues. Plenty of cool people who have different working jives.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I don't really know anything about the actors or actresses' personal lives, so I honestly had no idea there was bad blood.
Cyberfaust11@reddit
All we know for sure is that Xena and Hudson have never appeared in the same room together since acting on the show.
I could tell there was something going on just with that fact and could see it in Lucy's thinking-silence when watching Hudson's performance for DVD commentary.
Also the fact that Hudson Leick was hugely popular on the show, yet basically disappeared from the last three seasons, when they could have also easily cast her as Eve (and it's not like Hudson was that busy outside of the show - she did some cameos here and there in movies and shows, but basically left showbiz not long after).
Lucy confirmed it in a big interview by simply going silent (refraining from mentioning Hudson when asked about her) and then simply telling the interviewer (when asked about her again) that "We didn't get on... I don't know why." (Obviously she knows why, but she's professional enough to keep it to herself).
I personally think Hudson was the super hot talented girl that overshadowed everyone else and Lucy silently saw her as a threat while also not really getting along with her (Hudson, as we now know, is this weird religious person - nice, but... Dahak-worshipper-chick kind of weird). I'm guessing Lucy (like myself) doesn't trust that at all.
And there's the alpha-woman dynamic: Hudson actually took Lucy's part for a couple of episodes when Lucy was badly injured on the Jay Leno show (falling off a horse and doing something bad to her tailbone/spine). Basically, the super hot chick just took your job/role/position and that's the position you were in when you got with your husband, the Xena creator...
That's just my speculation/observational-theory.
Again, people freak out when I mention it... and I also don't want it to blow up, but I sure as hell am going to speculate because I love this show, and I'm not going to just ignore what's very much there.
Oh, and by the way, I never mentioned this before, but I'll say it here: I posted a Lucy interview recently for the Katee Sackhoff podcast... Lucy mentions that her husband would repeatedly bring back an actor she didn't like, but she would just have to go with it. (We know who she's talking about).
Agent8699@reddit
IF there was some kind of bad blood, it never showed on screen. Of course, they were meant to be mortal enemies on screen, but they both clearly put aside any issues once the camera was on as their performances never indicated an … unwillingness or reluctance to engage with one another.
I did wonder about Lawless’ comment about the repeat actor. I guess there aren’t too many options. I think she’s been more … effusively positive about Bruce Campbell, Ted Raimi, Kevin Smith, Claire Stansfield and Karl Urban. I can’t recall any comments about Alexandra Tydings, but I recall she asked her to appear on MLIM, so probably not. And she asked Danielle Cormack to guest on MLIM, so that rules out someone else.
I’m not sure she’s said much about Martin Csokas? Or maybe she means that actor who played adult Hope? : )
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Hmm interesting
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I think it could have been something simple as:
Lucy (finding a horoscope book sitting on set): "What idiot brought this thing to set."
Hudson (happens to be standing right beside Lucy): "... I did."
Lucy: "... Oh." (Well, there goes any hope for a friendship.)
aqueladaniela@reddit
I never knew about any of that, actually 😳
Cyberfaust11@reddit
I mean, we don't know what kind of 'beef' it is.
I think it's simply a 'let's stay away from each other' so it doesn't become a beef or whatever.
I don't know. But it's definitely real, it's something that's there (a rift between them). I give detailed thoughts in another comment here. I think it's just two actresses that respect each other professionally, but stay away from each other because they know only bad vibes will show if they are forced to.
aqueladaniela@reddit
What do you mean? 👀
Sugarloaf78@reddit
The whole “love is the way” arc. The time jump was also lame.
AssociationTiny5395@reddit
The filler episodes
Aphrodite (just cause I know its gonna a terrible episode if she is in it)
Cyberfaust11@reddit
You say "filler", I say "fun explorations".
AssociationTiny5395@reddit
Lol i was not having fun at all.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Aww, haha, I love Aphrodite. But I only really started liking her after Gabrielle inspired a change in her.
AssociationTiny5395@reddit
I actually like her as a character, she is too cute, but im on season 4 now and every single episode she has been in was horrendous
Latte-Catte@reddit
Same, season 1 is one of the worst culprit. Hard for me to convince other people to start xena since it's so heavy on fillers in the beginning.
lostworld21@reddit
Those modern day reincarnation episodes with Annie Banannie. In my head S4 ended with Ides of March and I pretend Deja Vu didn't exist
Bosw8r@reddit
The fat salesguy Salmonius... Im allergic to that kand of people, especially in real life
aqueladaniela@reddit
Without Salmoneus there would be no redeemed Xena! He gave her a chance before Hercules believed in her good potential (not blaming him after what she did to Iolaus and him). On the show he is one of my faves 😳
Melodic-Scheme6973@reddit
The entirety of season 5
Mars_rover9@reddit
The way they use injury humor with Joxer. Not sure the technical term, but it's pretty common in Will Ferrell stuff. Just lowbrow for how clever the show is.
The constant obsession with bringing Christianity in. Just felt out of place.
The compulsive heteronormativity, my gosh. Just let the women be!
theseedbeader@reddit
Slapstick comedy? It’s not my favorite, though that just might be because Joxer received more than his fair share of getting knocked around.
The Christianity bothers me sooo much. I loved the Greek gods, and I was actually pretty horrified that they did the Twilight arc and had Xena kill so many of them off to make way for the god of the Christians.
IseQween@reddit
The gods storylines. I didn't give a hoot about them, apart from how mortals might act based on what they believed to be true. I gnashed my teeth when they gave/took away powers, popped in personally to impregnate or otherwise physically influence an outcome. I am soooo glad they didn't establish an Olympian as Xena's blood parent.
1KyloRen@reddit
I could have done without the goofy comedy episodes. The show would have been better without that.
093_terbanupe@reddit
The fact that it has to be connected to Fartules
Emergencyhugs@reddit
Haaate Seraphin with a passion. Least favourite episode "Married with fishsticks". But I love the series so much, it doesn't matter if there's a few things I don't like
aqueladaniela@reddit
Married With Fishsticks was one of my least fave eps but after a re-watch recently it grew on me. I still can't stand In Sickness And In Hell.
Emergencyhugs@reddit
That whole fishy family annoys me, and the episode itself seems pointless, but I still think it's kinda a fun episode, and as my least favourite of the entire show, that says alot.
aqueladaniela@reddit
I think that, like Lyre Lyre, the writers were trying to develop a little bit more Gabby-Joxer story. I really like any episode with Discord, but used to dislike Fishticks too (mostly because of the kids lol).
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
That was the brainwashed Hope follower, right? Good lord, I couldn't stand her either.
But yes, I agree! This is my favorite show ever since I was little, and I've rewatched it too many times to count. I love it!
Emergencyhugs@reddit
Yup, that's the one. She should get sacrificed or something, lol.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Haha, well, she wanted to! But I agree, she sucked lol.
eitzhaimHi@reddit
Elli/Eve. Just why?
AvocadoPizzaCat@reddit
i wasn't a fan of christianity have more focus than anything that would have been topical in the era of xena. i understand why since it is very losely based on history and has bias of the people of the time. it is still not my favorite thing.
i was also not a fan of joxer's creeping.
i am cool with the dopplegangers. i mean i have a bunch around me, so some people have more common faces than others. i just wish that gabrielle has more and that it would be interesting to see everyone's dopplegangers interact with each other. joxer's brothers with xena's with gabrielle's and maybe autocyles just trying to figure out what is going on to the point he gets so confused he just sits there eating popcorn watching waiting for the reveal.
Pop_Stensbold@reddit
Xena's hypocrisy at times especially as regards Eve and her dealings with Callisto and Najara. The inconsistency she has with giving people a second chance/or judging them. The thoughts some people have written here concerning Malleagar I also agree with. There are some other things but those are my main.
phome83@reddit
Ares' sideburns.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Hahaha, how they change every time he has an appearance? Lmfao
Munkie29@reddit
Alti, I just can’t stand her, more annoying then villain
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
THANK GOODNESS SOMEONE MENTIONED ALTI.
Oh my gosh, i can't stand her at all. Lol
Munkie29@reddit
She’s just a big baby most the time, Callisto is my second.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Hahahaha
Aww, I love Callisto. When I was younger, I couldn't stand her, but every time I rewatched, i liked her more and more. She's probably my favorite villain.
Munkie29@reddit
I’m only on my second rewatch, I liked her more towards the end but the beginning I wanted to just punch her lol
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Same, honestly, lol. Her character is an acquired taste for sure.
Latte-Catte@reddit
Oh but I love Alti, she was one of the better longtime villain after Callisto.
aqueladaniela@reddit
She scares the cr*p out of me lol I like her now though - took years
Latte-Catte@reddit
Oh Eli definitely. Eve is right behind him. I have a gut feeling that the twilight saga would be much better without involving these two characters.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I wasn't really a fan of how they handled Xenas miracle baby, either. I also don't like the relationship she had with Ares, and I didn't like the way she evolved afterward, but I don't hate her.
Latte-Catte@reddit
The whole Ares and Eve thing was NASTY. Ares is one crusty man lmao, he'd tap anyone related to Xena!
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
And anyone that resembled her. He was down bad for her for sure. Lol
Latte-Catte@reddit
He did that once with Hope and I thought that was enough since he doesn't care for Gabrielle, but to Xena's daughter 🤮
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Oh god, I forgot he and hope did the deed. BLEGHH
ComputerSong@reddit
It seems like the show went from quality straight to jumping the shark.
AgitationOfMind@reddit
The Eve arc - almost all of it after the time jump. I love pretty much the whole of every series apart from those few episodes.
Budpet@reddit
Gabrielle and her constant whining
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Haha, she can be very judgey and preachy.
When she started using the daggers is when I really fell in love with her. Her mindset and everything seemed to change a bit, and she seemed to stop being so naive. But i love gabby even in the earlier seasons, but she definitely made me roll my eyes quite a few times. Lol
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
the fact that Xena's mom never met the doppelgangers is criminal. Mine would be:
The chakram, the weapon that defies gravity and logic.
Callistos war cry, her screams imitating her families screams coming from her burning home.
The OUTFITS
Latte-Catte@reddit
And the fact that Cyrene never ask about Toris ever again? I guess she has favorite children.
Automatic-Adeptness4@reddit
TBF I dont even care about Toris...that was such a cop out episode. Kinda took away the tragedy of Xena losing what we thought was her only sibling that understood her.
Latte-Catte@reddit
I wish they could redo it at the very least to redeem the cortese episode. Toris, even I don't care about, but cortese I do care since he was the starting point.
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
Hahaha, dang, I love the chakram and the outfits. However, I will agree with you on Callistos war cry, it took a few rewatches to just be able to tune it out. I couldn't stand it. Lol
eltarod@reddit
I would add in general all the double people of everyone!
mickeyhellhound@reddit (OP)
I agree, honestly. I don't know if they were just supposed to be like filler for when they had writers block or something, but after the first couple, it was just overdone. But I still don't mind the episodes, and I wouldn't skip them, I was just kinda over it, ya know?