Is 200hp from a V8 the same as 200hp from a I4?

Posted by revocer@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 252 comments

Suppose you have an older V8 from 40-60 years ago, capable of making 200hp. And suppose you have a modern I4, that can also make 200hp. Is the 200hp same? Or are there subtle differences between a V8 and an I4 which gives one or the other a benefit at 200hp?

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252 Comments

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MoneyKeyPennyKiss@reddit

Sure, but the power curve almost certainly looks different, and you likely have wildly different torque.

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AtaracticGoat@reddit

You can kinda make up for it with gearing. The V8 is probably done making power at 6000 rpm, the I4 is probably done making power at 7500 rpm. If you gear them so that they are both traveling the same MPH at the optimum shift point, the I4 will have much more torque multiplication to even it out. Yes, it's a weird way to look at it and IRL the I4 would be turning many more rpm during normal driving leading to increased wear. But, it's worth mentioning just for shits and giggles.

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Bforbrilliantt@reddit

Big engines tend to cool better. Could you put a formula one engine with short gearing in a semi? Yes but it would probably overheat and wear out more quickly. Such engines are usually used assuming high speed air keeps them cool. Plus if it was a 2000 screaming V10, the noise would probably annoy you after a while. It sounds nice around the track changing pitches but hauling 40 tons of bottled water up a hill going EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE in low gear would suck. Also it would use more fuel. The opposite - a truck engine in the sports car would be needlessly heavy and stick out of the bonnet, and the throttle response would be unexciting.

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Upstairs-Fan-2168@reddit

Thinking about power as an average power through a decently large rpm range (enough range that shifting up doesn't take you out of the range) is more useful than a single hp number. Area under the curve for a decent rpm range accomplishes the same thing. Some turbo engines make near constant torque for several thousand RPM. I have an mkz with a 3.0 TT, that makes 400 ft-lbs from around 2800 to around 5500. On the street, that engine will feel a lot more powerful than an engine that makes 300 ft-lbs, but has to rev past 7,000 to have the same HP as my car. The average power across the mid and upper rpm range is less.

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BlatantPizza@reddit

Your 400 torque will feel more powerful than 300? No way! That can’t be

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Bforbrilliantt@reddit

It depends what gear ratios come with the car. Also if the torque comes in lower down. A lot of TDI engines feel peppy off a light and are comparatively disappointing driven at max. Then a Type R civic or something will have a huge burst of power higher up but not so much shunt getting up to speed (if you compare equivalent engine size/power and vehicle weights in each example).

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Upstairs-Fan-2168@reddit

I get it seems obvious, but I think a lot of people just go off a the max listed horsepower number. My point is two cars can have the same horsepower, and it's true they make the same power at a certain RPM, but over a range of RPM, those two cars can have a significantly different power being delivered to the pavement.

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avar@reddit

>Thinking about power as an average power through a decently large rpm range (enough range that shifting up doesn't take you out of the range) is more useful than a single hp number. Can you name a single engine/gearbox combination, gasoline or diesel, where shifting up inherently depresses the power curve like that? It sounds like not, and: >You'll have awesome power between 6000-8000 rpm, but until you get there it will feel weak, especially at low RPMs common in street driving. For track it's great, if you can shift well enough to keep rpm up. So stay at 6-8k? Who's needing 100% of the engine's potential power, but doesn't want to shift properly? There's automatic transmission for those people, and if they mind the noise they'll get a Tesla.

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notLennyD@reddit

I remember this being a common complaint with older Honda VTEC engines. When you were dropping the hammer they felt great, but were gutless low in the RPM range. To your second point, he’s talking about street driving. You’re just driving around town at 6k-8k RPM?

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avar@reddit

>o your second point, he’s talking about street driving. You’re just driving around town at 6k-8k RPM? No, I drive around quite calmly in those conditions. I just don't get his point that *if* you need 100% of your horsepower, that keeping within the ideal RPM range of an ICE engine is an issue.

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notLennyD@reddit

I don’t see where they are saying that.

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Upstairs-Fan-2168@reddit

It's not so much if an engine or gearbox does this, most do drop in power when upshifting. There are exceptions, usually when an engine has a lot of low down torque that drops more than typical towards the higher RPMs. But most sports car engine will have less power right after they are shifted up. It's more the extent of how much power drops. Some cars drop off more or less then others. It all relates to the torque over the RPM range used. Horsepower is a function of torque and RPM (if you know the torque and RPM, you know the horsepower). There are advantages to having a less peaky motor (example I gave is small engine, big turbo). It's a wider power band. In racing, I agree, it doesn't matter as much, especially if the driver is good (can shift appropriately to keep the car in its power band). It isn't easy to do this though, and it's tougher to do the more peaky the engine is. The more power you make by using more boost, generally the power band gets narrower, because it just takes a lot more exhaust going through the hot side of the turbo to get the air side spinning fast enough to produce good boost. How much exhaust and engine produces is a linear function of RPM and displacement, if the motor is NA, but with a big turbo setup, you aren't really getting much extra on the exhaust end until it's spooled up to a good working range. So, for street driving having a power be stronger in the mid to upper range is often preferred over all at the top (an S2000 is a good example here, it feels slow unless you really drive it how it should be). But even for track, it can matter. If you screw up a shift, it can really slow you down. If you have a course that has lots of turns and shifting it is more difficult to do, and most drivers have trouble keeping power where it's highest. There are pros as well to having peaky motor (small engine and big turbo). Generally it's weight. 500 hp out of a k20 weighs a lot less than 500 HP out of an LS3. For racing, this is a big advantage of the driver can keep the small engine where it needs to be.

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Teddyturntup@reddit

It happens way more in modified cars than factory ones. In racing you see it with really peaky boosted small engine cars

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tinkertaylorspry@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Barra_engine

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tinkertaylorspry@reddit

https://blog.blueprintengines.com/hot-rod-magazine-340-hp-3.6-l-four-cylinder-ls-headed-crate-engine

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tinkertaylorspry@reddit

https://www.junkyardmob.com/misc/mopar-383 Vs

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tinkertaylorspry@reddit

https://blog.blueprintengines.com/hot-rod-magazine-340-hp-3.6-l-four-cylinder-ls-headed-crate-engine

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kimi_rules@reddit

The i4 should have more torque consistency than a V8, 200hp is just peak power, question is how much torque can it make to continuously make 200hp. For example, a V8 makes peak power at 2k-4k rpm, an i4 makes peak power from 4k-9k, it's obvious which one is faster.

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twizrob@reddit

Hp is a made up number that really doesn't mean much Torque is what moves a car . So a 200hp engine with 100ft/lbs of Torque is not as powerful as a 200hp engine with 500 ft/LBS.

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Hersbird@reddit

Torque is a measure of work. Work over time is power and that's what a horsepower number is. I can make 1000 ft-lbs with my hands and a bar, but I can never make more than 1/2 of a horsepower no matter how you set it up. Would you rather have my 1000 ft-lb and 1/2 hp ability moving your car or a lowly 100 ft-lb engine that also makes 100 hp? You want the hp because torque can always be created with gearing. You can't just create horsepower.

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twizrob@reddit

Horse power is a bullshit number calculated from tourqe. You can't measure it you can only calculate it . I'll take the 1000 ft pounds . You can't make tourqe with gears you can only multiply it. My diesel truck makes shit hp but has monster torque. Hp = torque time rpm divided by 5252. A made up number. And ya lift 25o pounds for 1 minute with that bar and its a 1/2 horse..

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Hersbird@reddit

This is simple physics. There is force, force over a distance which is work, and then the rate at which the work is done which is power. Torque is not a measure of power, which is why you need to do a conversion and add in rpm to figure out horsepower (a unit of power). You absolutely can measure horsepower, but dynometers do measure torque but also need to know the rotational speed to know the power. I can turn a dynometer with 1000 ft lbs with my muscles and a 4 foot long bar. But I could only do it at about one rotation every minute, so I'd be making 1/5 of a horsepower. So I make as much torque as your diesel, I just can't make the torque at a high rate meaning I can't make much horsepower. So would you rather have me and my 1000 ft-lbs of torque muscles, or an engine that only makes 500 ft-lbs but can do that at the rate of 5252 rounds per minute which would be 500 hp?

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twizrob@reddit

Tourqe is the ability to do work. Hp is work over time. Which is derived from an equation using tourqe. Give me a ten foot bar and i can lift 550 pounds 1 foot for 1 minute and thats 1 horse power. A bullshit number like I said. Dive a tesla. And see what 100% of toruqe off the line feels like at 0 hp because no rpm for the math.

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Hersbird@reddit

Like I said, my ability to do work is just as good as your 1000 ft-lbs diesel motor or your Tesla Plaid. What I can't do is the same work as quickly which is horsepower. Torque without a rate or time or rpm is the meaningless number. If I put 250 pounds of weight on a 4 foot long bar, I make 1000 ft-lbs of torque. Like I said, I can only turn that at 1 rpm which means I'm only making 1/5 of a horsepower. So I make your super awesome torque, but I make very little horsepower. It's definitely not a meaningless or made up thing. It's just the difference between power and work. I will get the same work done with my hands, it just will take a long time compared to something that also makes horsepower. In the end if you want to know how fast something can get done, like accelerating a car or truck down the 1/4 mile from a stop, you need a measurement of power which hp is and torque is not.

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Pimp_Daddy_Patty@reddit

Oh right. That old myth. Horsepower is neither made up, nor meaning less. It's a measure of work done.

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twizrob@reddit

And tourqe is what does the work. Look up how hp is calculated in automobile terms

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Pimp_Daddy_Patty@reddit

I know wxactly how its calculated. Look up the torque curve on a low HP engine. The torque is definitely not doing any work where you want it to.

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twizrob@reddit

I guess you never heard of diesel. You know like all those big trucks making shit hp but a fuck ton of torque

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Pimp_Daddy_Patty@reddit

I sure have. And they're slow as shit.

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blizzard7788@reddit

Basically, torque is how much work an engine can do. HP is how fast it can do it. So your engine with 500 ft/lbs of torque would be very powerful. It just wouldn’t be very fast. All else being equal.

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b0jangles@reddit

I wouldn’t say horsepower is any more made up than Watts are, since you can convert 1 horsepower to ~750 Watts.

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Last-Daikon945@reddit

You “feel” acceleration not because of HP but because of torque. So you want to look at torque values and curves when comparing same HP

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nicholasktu@reddit

Very different power curve. A V8 will make more power lower down and more torque. But it will suffer at higher RPM.

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kstorm88@reddit

Unless it's a turbo 4, then you can make power very low in the rpm range like the Chevy 2.7 I4

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SlartibartfastMcGee@reddit

This is an important distinction. When I bought my truck, I test drove the 2.7 I4 Turbo and the 5.3 V8. The 2.7 is punchier and peppier in the low RPM’s and will get off the line faster than the v8.

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kstorm88@reddit

Crazy theat a 4 banger gasser makes more power than my V8 turbo diesel that has 144% more displacement

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SlartibartfastMcGee@reddit

Forced induction is a hell of a drug. A big part of the reason I chose it was because it has 430 lb ft of torque at like 2,000 RPM.

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kstorm88@reddit

The real question is, will it hold up.

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dissss0@reddit

Even something like a GTI will make a lot of torque low down in the rev range. MK7 GTI - 258 lb-ft from 1500rpm.

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SillyAmericanKniggit@reddit

My 2023 Jetta makes max torque from like 1,750 to 4,000 RPM. It’s only like 180 lb-ft or so, but having it down low makes it feel faster than it is.

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ZelWinters1981@reddit

Not really. I've seen some powerful I4 engines really pull at low RPM.

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HughMongusMikeOxlong@reddit

Depends on the type of v8 lol. Depends on bore/stroke. A high revving German V8 makes no torque down low. A low revving American V8 will make tons of torque. Same with turbo 4 cylinders. A huge turbo will make no torque down low. A tiny turbo will make peak torque at 1.5k

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turkey_sandwiches@reddit

That very much depends on the engine. For example, a Coyote and an LS will feel very different.

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f700es@reddit

This! I was going to mention it depends on if the V8 is an older OHV design (LS) vs the newer OHC design (Coyote).

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glodde@reddit

May not actually suffer. Depending on the cam profile it may plateau at a certain rpm. So many different V8s as well

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thirdeye-visualizer@reddit

Exactly, 1 uz vs a small block Chevy for example

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FoxyWheels@reddit

That would depend on engine design and displacement. A 2L V8 would make less power low down and rev higher than a 2L i4 if both were to make 200hp peak. But in standard production cars, you're correct.

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The_Slavstralian@reddit

200BHP is 200BHP. That part should in theory never change. What changes is how that power is delivered. How it is achieved and when in the rev range that 200BHP occurs.

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hillsbloke73@reddit

HP is standard measurement of power it's not like trying to say what's heavier tonne of leaf or tonne of feathers !

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Commercial_Cow_425@reddit

V8 more torque

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Ralph_O_nator@reddit

Even 4-cylinder to 4-cylinder of different manufacturers are going to be different. At one time I had a CR-X with a B20 bottom end and a B18 top end with some other bolt ons. Dynoed it at about 170 at the wheels. I also had a 2006 WRX wagon with about the same power at the wheels. The WRX EJ25 was way torquier down low and much more peaky/with plenty of torque up high when on boost where the Honda was “ok” then you hit VTEC, *yo*, in the last 1500 rpm or so and it took off pretty quick but it was all HP and minimal torque.

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bitzzwith2zs@reddit

200 hp is 200 hp. Driving them would be VERY different. HP doesn't REALLY matter, torque matters. Horse power is a number James Watt dreamed up to sell steam engines to dumb 19th century farmers. Torque is a measurement of force.

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viper_gts@reddit

Torque will be different, and available earlier in the rev range, so it will feel much faster.

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Ciabatta_Pussy@reddit

also a tiny I4 making 200hp probably has a turbo that needs to spool up.

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f700es@reddit

Technology IS the replacement for displacement! 2024 Mustang 5.0: 480 hp 480/5 = 96 hp/L 2024 Camaro 6.2: 455 hp 455/6.2 = 73.4 hp/L 2024 Camaro 3.6: 335 hp 355/3.6 = 98.6 hp/L

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bitzzwith2zs@reddit

1964 Suzuki RK67. A 50cc engine with 17.5hp = about 350HP/L Honda did one in '65 Nothing comes close

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HughMongusMikeOxlong@reddit

Lmao you guys need to revisit physics class. You guys are looking at one anecdotal experience lmao. It all depends on the setup. A high revving short stroke V8 will make no torque down low. A low revving flat plane V8 will make tons of torque down low. Conversely, a small turbo i4 can make tons of torque down low. My old Elantra sport made 201hp at redline but made peak torque at 1.5k, much earlier than any NA car. A big turbo (think old-school high HP turbo civic's) will make no torque down low. It all depends on the specific setup.

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human743@reddit

That is not much earlier than the old 500ci Cadillac motor. Peak power is about the same but had much more torque at 1500rpm than the Elantra.

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HughMongusMikeOxlong@reddit

Lmao the critical thinking skills here. Why are you so insistent on finding one off examples? I said it completely depends on the way the engines are setup. Yes there are v8's that make torque down low, there are also v8's that don't. The s65 in the e90 m3 makes peak torque at 4k rpm. Clearly much later than some turbocharged 4 cylinders. It literally all depends. Besides, your example is shit because the Chevy big block still makes peak torque later.

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human743@reddit

Well you kind of ask for it when you say "any" NA engine. If we look hard enough we can find NA engines that redline at 1500rpm. If you said most or typically wouldn't have cared. But when someone makes a blanket statement which almost has to be wrong based on the nature of how turbochargers work, it ignites my curiosity. Also nobody said anything about a Chevy big block. The Cadillac engine is a different design.

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HughMongusMikeOxlong@reddit

The hilarious part is that the example you gave didn't even generate peak torque lower than 1500 rpm. Sure I should have said most NA engines rather than any I can admit that. Read my original reply, the message I was trying to get across was that it depends on the setup. There are no correct blanket statements for v8's or turbo charged 4 cylinders because it's all extremely dependent on how they are configured. If you're really going to nitpick, I can do the same. NA engines that redline at 1500rpm? Lmao what? Name one. Small turbo cars can definitely generate torque lower in their rev range than NA cars, the turbo just needs to be tiny lol. Sure, I misspoke, I shouldn't have said any NA engine, I should have said most NA engines. But the main point is that, no you can't just say v8's make torque down low or that all turbo cars make peak power up top. It's super configuration dependant. American V8's certainly match that claim, but euro v8's don't. Old school turbos like the mazdaspeed had a ton of turbo lag, new economy 4 cylinder tiny turbo cars spool up instantly.

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human743@reddit

I searched for the first thing that came to mind that i thought might have a low torque peak. There are probably some early diesels that have lower torque peaks and some gas ones too. I did not comb the archives to find the best example. The Aultman and Taylor 30-60 had a redline of 550rpm. There is one. I don't really care to search for more.

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HughMongusMikeOxlong@reddit

Fair enough.

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tokyo_engineer_dad@reddit

Sometimes? The K20A made 200 hp and didn't need forced induction. Even the Toyota 2zz Celica GTS motor made 185. And more modern, the FA20 from a BRZ makes 200. The BRZ is a perfect car for this comparison. It makes about 230 hp IIRC, and the 1995 Mustang GT made similar power out of a V8 and could barely hit mid 14's in the quarter mile. This is versus 13.9 in the BRZ. People will point out tire technology, but even in late 2000's with drag radials, Mustang GT owners were lucky to hit low 14's. Weight? Even if the motor is heavier but you think older cars are lighter, you'd be surprised. The Mustang GT had a curb weight of around 3200 lbs. 2800 lbs for the BRZ. So yeah, older cars CAN be heavier, but in some cases they aren't.

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Electronic-Youth-286@reddit

Why not an electric supercharger?

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glm409@reddit

Not necessarily. BMW had a naturally aspirated 2 liter 4 cylinder in the 80's that generated 200+HP, Honda S2000 from the late 90's generated 240 HP from its 4 cylinder, and the Integra Type R from the 90's was right at 200 HP too. There are probably others, but these are the ones I am most familiar with. Now the 4-cylinder turbocharged engines are in the 300+ range.

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congteddymix@reddit

True they made the horsepower but no torque particularly in the lower RPM range, which is fine in a light sports car that is more for fun spirited driving. But in something that you are all out racing or say a truck or something that you tow a trailer with you want the torque and higher displacement engines produce more torque down low in the RPM range. Put it this way there is a reason Honda runs a 3.5 v6 in the Ridgeline/Pilot.

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glm409@reddit

Not sure what you mean by all-out racing, since the E30 M3 is considered to be one of the world's most successful road-race cars. It is a pretty legendary track car.

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congteddymix@reddit

Yeah I should have clarified but I am talking like drag racing. But to your point that engine would have to be making some decent torque numbers lower in the RPM range so that it can come out of the corners fast. Again torque is what gets you going not horsepower.

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AdaptiveVariance@reddit

Let's not forget the almighty Triumph 1500cc which made approximately 60 beastly thundering horses at some thousands of RPMs, without the need to develop excess torque. I also believe it avoided the use of complicated metals in its construction, but I'm no metallurgist. Truly one of the great all-time engines.

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jolsiphur@reddit

Even currently Toyota and Subaru's 1st Gen BRZ/86 have a 2.0L NA Boxer engine and get between 200-205HP. Even them the second generation upped the engine to a 2.4L and gets about 228HP. A lot of manufacturers are now going with a 1.6L + Turbo config to get decent power but with good fuel efficiency. Hyundai has a bunch of 1.6L turbo engines for some of their SUVs. Nissan is using a 1.6L 3 cylinder with a turbo in the new Rogue model, it has about 200HP.

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SuperHarrierJet@reddit

While the F22 and F24 made a lot from their little displacement, they made shit for torque and you had to rev the piss out of them to get them to go. Same with the early K series engines without turbos. Fun to rev, just no torque.

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Falafelofagus@reddit

F20C and F22C*. No such thing as a Honda s2000 F24.

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Kdetr4128@reddit

F22 is in what car?

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ajkd92@reddit

Same with the S14.

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af_cheddarhead@reddit

The Honda F20C enters the conversation. 2.0L naturally aspirated and 237 HP in US configuration.

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that_motorcycle_guy@reddit

There's many i4 pushing 200+ hp NA.

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skylinesora@reddit

It's 2025. Not uncommon to have a NA 200hp I4 engine.

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kstorm88@reddit

Look at the Chevy 2.7L. it makes about the same torque at 1500rpm as the 5.3 V8. Very impressive engineering. Diesel like performance from a 4 banger gas. In fact it has more power than my lb7 Duramax. Granted, it likely won't be pulling an equipment trailer maxed out at 300k miles

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HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

supercharger or small turbo coupled to big turbo resolves lag issues.

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Floppie7th@reddit

We're talking about 100hp/L, you don't need *any* turbos to get there, let alone one big enough that lag is an issue.

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Ciabatta_Pussy@reddit

Its turbos all the way down

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caverunner17@reddit

Some of the larger NA I4's make near 200HP - Toyota's 2.5 makes 203HP, Mazda's 2.5 is 187HP, Subaru is 182, Mazda's 2.0 in the Miata is 181 etc.

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newoldschool@reddit

3sge beams K20 B18

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Disastrous_Fix6084@reddit

I skimmed through a ton of comments and i didn’t see anything related to weight, that older v8 also probably weighs a ton more.

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outline8668@reddit

That and there's a good chance the vehicle that V8 is installed in weighs a ton more

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HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

Colin Chapman of Lotus Fame said something akin to "take a light car and make it lighter still" -a light car handles better than a heavy car and taking weight off is akin to gaining hp without adding a bigger torquier engine that can affect driveability and sometimes less hp makes for a faster lap time due to being able to lay down the power

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a_trane13@reddit

Very very roughly - for a “typical” car you can add 10 hp or remove 100 lbs of weight and get about the same power. V4s are gunna weight a few hundred lbs less than V8s, so… a lighter V4 with the same hp is gunna have 20-40 more effective hp just from engine weight and outperform on that alone, I think. Depends a lot on the car though - for a Lotus it’s probably way different.

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DarkOne0@reddit

Dude your use of V4...I mean I understand your logic..but not knowing the difference between a V engine and an Inline engine makes me not take anything you are saying seriously...

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a_trane13@reddit

I’m not sure what your issue is. I went back and reread the post, they did specifically say I4, which I missed the first time. Is that it?

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mingemuncher88@reddit

The point is that there are no v4 cars getting made. If you dont know that you are clueless.

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Waste-Menu-1910@reddit

The only 2 v4 engines I'm aware of are the Ford Essex which stopped production in 1977, and Honda vf series motorcycle engine. Neither made more than 100hp.

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Waste-Menu-1910@reddit

I completely forgot the euro brands! Thanks!

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Grass-NaturesLatrine@reddit

Ducati makes V4 motorcycle engines that exceed 200hp.

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The_Crazy_Swede@reddit

Another thing he said was "simplify and add lightness". That man was a genius!

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Ponklemoose@reddit

Best part is he delivered on it.

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JCDU@reddit

I can't remember which driver it was but more than one accused him of basically lightening cars until they broke and then only putting a tiny bit back to cover the failure. He's right though, removing weight has the effect of making \*everything\* else on the car better.

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flacoman954@reddit

Jochen Rindt. Last posthumous F1 champ. Look up the letter to Chapman

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JCDU@reddit

The old days were brutal.

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The_Crazy_Swede@reddit

I love how he felt like the original eliese was the biggest failure of his life cause it wasn't light enough 🤣 He was aiming for sub 1500lbs/680kg and "only" managed to reach 1600lbs/725kg

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Watsis_name@reddit

The original Lotus Elise weighed the same as a Mini MkIII. You know the cars designed from the bottom up to be tiny.

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DBDude@reddit

Otherwise states, cut the weight and the power problem solves itself. Well, except when it comes to high speed.

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halfcocked1@reddit

Not sure about that. If you compare cars from today to older cars (side by side), you realize how much cars were smaller. I always thought of an 80's firebird as a big car, but I park my Trans Am next to a modern sedan, it almost looks like a 3/4 scale fake car. The '79 mustang I had with a V8 only weighed 2,600lbs from the factory, so I'd say on average that modern day cars, with smaller engines weigh more, as overall they are just bigger.

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congteddymix@reddit

It depends what era car, your talking about pony cars right at the beginning of the downsized era. Ford still made a true full size LTD up to 1978 that weighed about 4000lbs which is quite heavy and pretty much had that same 140hp engine as the mustang. Now park that LTD next to modern sedan and that’s a huge car. Now take the 79 downsized model which was around 3400lbs and compare that to a modern sedan and it’s still bigger but closer in size yet weighs less then a modern car. Basically you can’t compare a sports car to a sedan.

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halfcocked1@reddit

Fair enough point. I never thought much of 40-60 year old sedans, so my head only thought of decent cars from that era. :-)

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f700es@reddit

And that '79 Mustang also had 140 hp. With a 0-60 between 8-9 secs or about the same as a 2.0L Kia Soul (161 hp).

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halfcocked1@reddit

Yeah, you're right about that. I was mostly just commenting about the weight aspect that the V8 doesn't mean it's heavier. The mustang was geared for all around driving, so wasn't great at off the line, since they only had 3 gears to work with. Mine had 2.47:1 axle gears, so it was about 2000rpm at 50mph. I found a posi rear for it at the junkyard and put it in with 2.73:1 gears and it made the rpms jump significantly. It helped off the line a bit, but maxed out at a much lower speed (can't remember the specifics).

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f700es@reddit

Oh yeah the weight comes into play. My '67 coupe in HS was only 2,700 lbs so the 289 made it pretty quick, for it's day.

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collie2024@reddit

Good chance but not necessarily. My late 60’s falcon is some 1450kg. Similar to mustang of same era. New Corolla 1375kg.

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CanuckInATruck@reddit

Nobody cares about power:weight and it's kinda frustrating. A 500hp v8 in a 4000lb car is gonna get stomped by a 300hp i4 in a 2500lb car. In the OP example, if the engines are going in the same car, new i4 will be better because you're guaranteed to be lighter.

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human743@reddit

You should fix your example because the 4000lb car has a better power to weight ratio than the 2500lb car. It would need at least 312hp to be equal.

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CanuckInATruck@reddit

Adjusted to 350hp in the i4.

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human743@reddit

That works

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Coupe368@reddit

Yeah, the cobra didn't weigh much, especially if it had an aluminum V8. The super snake was less than 2300 lbs. Old muscle cars weigh less than todays sedans, probably less than the giant 5 door civic. A 1970 Camaro weighs 3200 lbs, a 2025 Toyota Camry weighs hundreds of pounds more than that. They had thicker metal back then, but zero safety equipment, crumple zones, airbags, power seats and windows, and was missing lots of other stuff.

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Antmax@reddit

Yeah, my Mini Cooper S weighs almost 3000 lbs, it's ridiculous. My 2nd gen Miata weighs 2200 with the soft top removed. Unless you are in sport mode with a lot of turbo, the Mini doesn't have the direct feel or throttle response of the Miata.

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Coupe368@reddit

Yeah, but that miata is light enough that it has quick handling responses. Its amazing the Miata is still kept off the bloat after all these generations. You can't have throttle response from a turbo, its just not a thing that is possible. Both cars are good in different ways.

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thatguy425@reddit

Definitely not a ton more, probably 100-300 lbs more.

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scuba_steve77@reddit

On top of its weight he’s comparing a car from the 70s to one from the modern era. The advancements in turbos, transmissions, traction control allow cars these days to put way more power down.

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clintj1975@reddit

Typical weight for a small block V8 is around 450 to 500 lbs. A 2L I4 comes in at around 250 to 300 lbs. The other weight penalty is you need a little more structure and suspension to handle that extra weight and the (typically) higher torque.

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largos7289@reddit

Two vastly different torque and HP curves. That and to me at least the l4 is reaching max HP, where as the V8 still has a ton more room to grow HP wise.

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Rattlingplates@reddit

Weight and torque and longevity.

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JD-Eze@reddit

Flawed question. Where does the torque peak? Is correct one.

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BoredOfReposts@reddit

HP is torque times rpm. Torque comes from burning the fuel. Bigger displacement means more fuel burn. So a v8 makes the same power with less rpm all other things being equal. Its easier to take an engine from 4k to 8k rpm and get more hp than 8k to 12+. So theres more head room on a v8 to make more power compared to on an i4. You have to spend more time waiting for the engine to spin up to those higher rpms on the i4 to access that power. Whereas its much more accessible on a v8. Another point is that a 40-60 year old v8 will be less efficient than a modern i4, or an equivalent modern v8 for that matter. Itll take more fuel to make the same hp on the older motor. One way to get around the high rpm aspect of smaller displacement motors is with a turbo. Cram more air in the same space makes it like a bigger displacement motor. So a lot of light duty trucks now have turbo i4s instead of v8s since they are lighter and can produce equivalent power for the application now.

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Zealousideal-War4110@reddit

That is not the equation for hp

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BoredOfReposts@reddit

Oh no I forgot the constant in my layman’s explanation

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Zealousideal-War4110@reddit

Still wrong

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Writeoffthrowaway@reddit

You’re a fucking moron and a child lol

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Writeoffthrowaway@reddit

HP= (torque * RPM)/5252 is literally the formula

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congteddymix@reddit

You’re slightly wrong on the horse power calculation it’s torque x RPM/5252. Remember all engines for whatever reason the torque and horsepower are exactly equal at 5252. Basically if you have an engine making 225 lb ft of torque at 3000 rpm your engine is probably only making 128 horsepower.

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BoredOfReposts@reddit

Its a layman’s explanation. I know theres a constant. Including it would only confuse the conceptual explanation. I also didnt say what a torque is.

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congteddymix@reddit

Maybe the rest is but a calculation is a calculation you can’t omit stuff like that.

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BoredOfReposts@reddit

Im pretty sure i did, so, thats just like, your opinion, man. Now be a good little pedantic redditor and press the downvote button, ok?

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LeaningSaguaro@reddit

Just made this exact comparison from my 2004 Jeep V8 to my Tacoma I4-turbo. Right on!

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BoredOfReposts@reddit

I very much like my 2000 wrangler with its 5.3, compared to before i did the rebuild/swap with its little i4. I think about this a lot, lol. Cheers.

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jolle75@reddit

Power is power, no difference. Also, “more torque for the V8” is not true by definition. For two engines with the same capacity and power, the less pistons it has, the more torque and needs less revs to come to the same power (power = torque times revs). It’s more that American V8’s are so inefficient and incapable of revving compared to their DOHC counterparts, that the it feels like that. In racing for instance, you will have more cilinder so can rev higher (all the up and down components are smaller and lighter)

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RepairHorror1501@reddit

Horsepower is a useless measurement without torque figures to go with it. The combination of the two= power

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Dangerous-Dad@reddit

It depends on so very many things. An I4 might have significantly different (lower) torque, especially is the I4 is naturally aspirated. An I4 with a turbo can make more torque than a V8, it all depends on how the turbo geometry and the boost management is set up. Of course, a V8 turbo with 200hp could make huge torque, but with 200hp, probably it's not a turbo. A general rule of thumb is that for each liter of NA displacement, on factory tune, most naturally aspirated (NA) engines make 100Nm of torque (75 ft-lb per 65 cu-in, approx). You can get more, or less, depending on how the factory wanted it, but that is, more or less, where most NA engines are in the past 20 or so years. The main difference tends to be where that maximum torque is on the rev-band; sportier configurations have the torque higher up the rev band, economy cars tend to aim to have it around the likely engine speed on highway driving. With a turbocharger you change that massively. You can double mid-range torque whilst not upping high-end power by a lot (e.g. 20-30% more power for economy cars) or just doubling power as well (performance-oriented cars). But if you want a direct comparison, then a 3.0l I4 with 200hp and a 3.0l V8 with 200hp are likely to have similar torque and power curves if they are both NA or both turbo/supercharged to the same levels of boost. A 2.0l I4 with 200HP and a 8250 rpm redline (e.g. a Honda) will have a very different feel than a 5.0l V8 with 200hp and a 6000 rpm redline. Which one is better depends on what you want the vehicle to do or be. In short, usually the V8s are larger with displacement and not-turbocharged whilst modern I4s tend to be turbocharged once they make over around 150-160hp from the factory. So the turbocharger in the I4 just changes the entire dynamic of how the power unfolds in the I4, likely making it quicker than it's similarly horse-powered V8 whilst also being more economical. But, probably it will have noticeably less longevity. And it will lack the sound of the V8.

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skviki@reddit

I suppose there’s a torque and its delivery difference? More torque at lower revs? Not sure.

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Antmax@reddit

HP is only half of the equation. You also need torque which is the twisting power. Torque effects the acceleration from stopped since it's the twisting power needed to turn the wheels and give the car its momentum. HP is how fast it can move that rotation to give you top speed. A V8 will usually have more torque at low RPM's. An I4 will usually have the torque in a higher rpm range, so it might not really have much power till you are in the 3500 - 5000 rpm range.

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Lubi3chill@reddit

200hp is 200hp. The only difference when comparing same amount of horsepower can be how big the turbo is(big turbo spools slowly and has big turbo lag) suspension and most importantly weight.

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blackfarms@reddit

200hp at 3000 rpm is very different than 200hp at 6500rpm. You can easily double the hp of an emissions era v8, by upgrading the cam and valve springs and letting it rev like the 4 cyl.

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Lubi3chill@reddit

When we say the car has 200hp we say it is it’s stock maximum horsepower output. You can’t say what you did, because it doesn’t matter if you have 20hp or 1000hp if you have 3k rpm or 6.5k rpm it’s the same thing because you can’t accelerate if your rpm isn’t going up. Also who said anything about modding? He asked about two cars making same amount of power as a hypothetical if v8 would have any benefit over I4 at the same power.

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blackfarms@reddit

Because it's a leading question attempting to denigrate American engineering. That was his point.

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Lubi3chill@reddit

Lmao nobody cares about that.

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Dinglebutterball@reddit

200hp is 200hp… but 200hp at 3000 RPM is WAY different than 200hp at 6500RPM… HP is a function of torque and RPM.

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ReebX1@reddit

Horsepower drives max speed, torque drives acceleration

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epicpopper420@reddit

From a purely theoretical perspective, absolutely. In reality, there’s many different variables to consider. A 4 cylinder engine fires once every 180 degrees of crank rotation while an 8 cylinder fires once every 90 degrees of crank rotation, giving the 8 cylinder a steadier power output at an equivalent rpm. The I4 has roughly half the moving parts of a V8, reducing friction losses and increasing efficiency. Stroke and bore also make a huge difference, with a longer stroke delivering more torque at the cost of a lower maximum engine speed, while a shorter stroke increases maximum rpm at the cost of low end torque unless suitably boosted. The materials used in the engine also play a role, with heavier cast iron and carbon steel being popular in older engines while lightweight aluminum and alloy blocks dominate the modern engine, effectively adding extra power to the car by reducing weight. Even the fuel delivery systems play a part, with modern fuel injection able to better vaporize fuel for more complete combustion which will affect the actual power output over an older carburetor while saving fuel. Also, what’s the mileage on each of the engines, as most will lose power over time and won’t match the manufacturer specs of the day without a tune-up.

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pessimistoptimist@reddit

I have an old v8 in an old heavy car with about 175rwhp. I have a modern i4 in an suv that makes about the same power (no turbo) The suv is slightly lighter but now by much. The v8 has a 3 speed tranny whereas the i4 has 6 speed. The i4 is a bit faster overall is acceleration and top end prob due to the transmission being able to keep it closer to peak power. The i4 does not spin the tires very easy at all. The v8 can spin the tires with a little effort. Mileage the i4 is alot better when cruising as road speed. The v8 is nicer in the mountains it has eoungh grunt to pull itself up the hill most times (occassionally needs to downshift) whereass the i4 needs to downshift much more frequently and rev way hogher to keep speed going up the hill. Overall the technology wins big time for a daily driver.

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bynummustang@reddit

Torque and power curve different for sure.

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deezconsequences@reddit

You should account for HP loss over time as well.

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sasquatch753@reddit

Sure, but it will depend on the motors, too. Generally The I4 needs much higher rpm and work harder to get its maximum horsepower, while yhe v8's power curve comes much sooner at lesser RPM's. Also, the v8 will also generally have more torque output than an I4. The I4 is designed with fuel economy in mind while rhe v8 is made for heavier duty functions.

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highflyer10123@reddit

It absolutely will not be the same. The V8 will have way more torque than the I4. HP is only part of the equation.

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Garet44@reddit

Cars from 40-60 years are not as aerodynamic as cars from 20 years ago to present, so that 200 hp will not go as far, especially after 70 mph. 200hp in the same car is still 200hp. V8 engines with 200 hp tend to get their power earlier on, so the power is more accessible, but here's the other thing, cars from 40-60 years ago had fewer and more widely spaced gears compared to cars today, so you're not getting that power until 35mph in 1st gear or 60mph in 2nd gear anyway. The only difference is the need to downshift. You will not need to downshift the V8 as often as the I4 but after that it's the same. I think it goes without saying that the 200hp I4 is going to be a lot more fuel efficient and more complicated.

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PartOk5529@reddit

HP = Tq × RPM/5252 In other words, Torque is a measurement of work done. HP is a calculation of work done over a period of time. What that means is that 200HP is 200HP. The question is at what RPM are you achieving that number? For comparison: A GSXR 600 makes 44ftlb of torque. A Harley-Davidon XL makes 70ish ft lbs of torque. The GSXR will have a HP figure in the triple digits because it revs all the way to 13000 RPM, whereas the XL will make about 70ish HP and redlines at about 6800 RPM. The 600 will absolutely embarrass the 1200 in a drag race (stock v stock) but likely needs to drop a gear (or two) when going up a steep grade and riding 2-up. The XL will probably pull that same grade in 5th gear with plenty of grunt to spare. Which speaks to the earlier point of "where power is made" in relation to engine speed. I hope that helps.

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Tractorguy69@reddit

Where, how flat or parabolic the power to RPM graphs and how accessible the torque and horsepower are to the driver will be significantly different but that 200hp is a set formula therefore s standard unit of measure so completely equal. Also hp to weight ratio is very important to the driving experience, more do than the raw hp number

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warpigz@reddit

Generally more cylinders means a smoother feeling, although old V8s might be pretty rumbly. Modern gas engines are 4 stroke, so 4 is the minimum number of cylinders to have so that one cylinder will always be producing power. The cylinder isn't really producing power through the whole stroke though so there's still some big smoothness gains to be had by going to 5 or 6 cylinders. Gains in smoothness go down after that.

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magicfeatherx@reddit

they achieved the same power of peak

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voucher420@reddit

I have both. A 96 Crown Victoria interceptor and a 2006 Civic Si. They both make about 200hp. The Crown Victoria is much heavier and slower, but it can tow up to 5,000 pounds. The Civic is light and nimble and is a bit faster, but it isn’t recommended for towing at all and would have voided the warranty per the owners manual. The Crown Victoria can rev up to about 5,000 rpm while the Civic can rev over 8,000 rpm. The Crown Victoria is much smoother with the automatic and the power band is more linear while the Civic goes into VTEC and it feels much more raw and snappy. As far as fuel economy goes, I drive the Crown Victoria with a light touch to average about 20 mpg with a max freeway only mpg of about 24 mpg and the least while towing, about 12 mpg, 16 without a trailer and hauling ass around town. The Civic gets an average of 20 mpg mixed use while having fun, 24 mpg while being easy on it, and 30mpg freeway only. There is a modern version of the Civic Si without “true” VTEC, and a smaller 1.5l engine with a small turbo that’s designed to build power from a very low rpm all the way to red line, but it feels a bit more boring. It also gets way better fuel economy, with people reporting up 56mpg and most getting around 40 mpg.

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CHLarkin@reddit

Says a lot about the gearing in the P71. My civilian-spec '07 Vic regularly gets 28-30 on long highway trips at 55-60 with the cruise on and driving gently. And that's with 363k miles.

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voucher420@reddit

It is geared lower than the civilian model, and it is programmed different with higher shift points and a higher idle speed.

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CHLarkin@reddit

Yep. The 2.73 gears in my car vs. the 3.27 in the police package do indeed make a difference.

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DeFiClark@reddit

Well … depends … All things the same SAE net hp is constant. But around 1971 US makers switched from the older “gross horsepower” standard. SAE net numbers are lower. There’s no conversion scale — gross is the engine run without accessories like alternator so it’s a higher number. So if the car is US market and made in 1970 or before, no. Not the same. The older car number will be gross hp, the new car net. Newer than 1970, same same.

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HoratioPLivingston@reddit

The dichotomy is actually better when you compare a NA 300hp V8 to a 300hp V6. That 300hp V8 would most likely have all of its torque available at a lower rpm. Any naturally aspirated 300hp V6 is going to be a high revving engine and the torque is felt much higher in the rev range.

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icemonsoon@reddit

The torque curve of a v8 is like a hill The torque curve of a turbo is like a mountain with a flat top

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Coupe368@reddit

If you have power and torque curves to compare, or if you want to pick a couple actual existing engines, then we can do the comparison, but your question is too obtuse to give an informed answer.

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UnGatito@reddit

200 hp is the same no matter what produce it, the real thing is when, at what rpm it's produced and the torque

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CZFanboy82@reddit

Torque and power curve, so no, not at all.

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CHLarkin@reddit

Power curves, and I suspect longevity and ease of repair will certainly be different. I've also found most of my V8 powered cars over the years have been fairly economical to run on the highway, where I do a lot of my driving, and I drive a lot for my work.

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Navi_Professor@reddit

That V8 makes almost 300 lbs, if not more, torque. With so little cylinder pressure, you could probably feed it varnish and run. and has a power curve that peaks at 3k rpm, if that. meanwhile that I4 only makes maybe 200ftlbs, maybe less, torque but has a much wider power band, needs modern gas, but also consumes 1/4 amount of it.

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YouAssYouKilledUS@reddit

Absolutely not the same. The powerband is different, and the 4 is going to be working a lot harder to generate it.

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lucidzealot@reddit

Don’t they have technological advancements to allow for more power in lower rpms for turboed 4 cylinders to bridge the gap until they get into the higher rpms?

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kilertree@reddit

There isn't enough information here we need the displacement, the manufacturer and if the engine is boosted. The Pontiac 5 liter Turbo made 201 horsepower in 1981.

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Zealousideal-War4110@reddit

The v8 will make peak power soon and make more torque.

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That_Trapper_guy@reddit

An S2000 made 237 HP at 9000 RPM. HP is simply Tq*RPM/5252. So you can make a lot of HP by spinning it really fast like Honda did, or you can make a but load of torque way down low like Cummins did and still only be at 200hp at 1800rpm. At 5252 RPM HP and torque will always be equal. Below that Tq is higher, above HP is.

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King_in_a_castle_84@reddit

A 200hp V8 from 1985 is almost certainly gonna have a lot more torque than a turbo 2.0L today because it's almost certainly almost 3 times the displace.

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7days2pie@reddit

Sure. Our mini van has as much HP as my foxbody but it’s not even close to the same thing

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Mr2-1782Man@reddit

Even on a V8 it'll be different. 200HP just means that at some point in the RPM range the engine is making 200HP, it doesn't specify where in the RPM range and it doesn't tell you what the torque looks like. You can have have an engine that's setup for power down low and have it hit 200HP. You can also have an engine setup for making 200HP up high and it'll feel very different. Think of it as the difference between an engine in a semi and an engine in a car. The semi engine \*only\* makes around 200HP. It doesn't really get moving quick but it has a lot of grunt behind it. A car engine doesn't have much grunt behind it and it'll get up and go. Each arrangement of cylinders has its advantages and disadvantages and that goes into a very deep rabbit hole.

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GonzoTheGreat22@reddit

Weight is a concern. The v8 is seemingly heavier

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grundlemon@reddit

An inline 4s gonna weigh significantly less. As others stated, the power curve will be different. Also fuel efficiency, if you care.

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Typical-Analysis203@reddit

The way you’re asking, yes, they’re exactly the same. You’re pretty much asking if 1000 lbs of feathers weighs the same as 1000 lbs of steel. Yes, 1000 lbs is 1000 lbs. if you’re asking how a V8 vs an I4 with 200 hp will accelerate a car 0-60, yes they’re different. HP is the rate you’re doing work, torque is the work. 200 hp is the max, the engine don’t make 200 hp at every RPM.

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EffectiveRelief9904@reddit

Good question. Power is power, but a v8 has more torque. That’s the stuff that throws you back against the seat. A 4 banger gets its power from high rpm. The difference can really be felt if you add weight. A v8 vs a 4 cyl pulling 4000 pounds up a hill, you’ll notice the difference real quick, especially from starting

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CuriouslyContrasted@reddit

It all depends on the torque curve.

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ActuallyStark@reddit

To echo what many are saying here, it's all about the curve... if you put earplugs in, and drive a 4cyl, v6, v8 all with identical power curve AND torque curves, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference. That being said, there's a REASON that power curves look so much different on different layouts of engines. Even inline 4 vs boxer 4 vs V4 all feel dramatically different. and I6 vs V6 vs VR6... same story.. thing of it this way.. When the fuel goes "bang", where is it pushing the crankshaft? when does the "next" bang push the crankshaft? What ANGLE does it push it at? how long until the next one goes "bang"? how much does the rotating mass weigh (crankshaft, cams, flywheel, pistons)? Now, if you really wanna bake your noodle, throw rev limits in there. A 3.0 V6 gas that redlines at 5500 will feel VERY different than a VR6 3.0 gas that redlines at 7k and COMPLETELY different than a 3.0 V6 Diesel that redlines at 4k. And don't even think about adding in a 3.0 inline 6 redlining at 8+... All the same displacement, all the same number of cyl... all drastically different power and torque output and feel.

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revocer@reddit (OP)

Fascinating. I appreciate the description using different configurations.

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ActuallyStark@reddit

If you genuinely find it interesting there are some videos on youtube talking about why different engines make different sounds... my wife thought it was like watching paint dry... I was riveted. There's more math and physics that you'd ever imagine. Then if you REALLY want your mind blown, dig into rotary engines (Mazda/ Wankel, not Bently/Sopwith) THEN get into "liquid piston". But, IMO, the pinnacle of it all, dive into how and why they did what they did in the Lexus LFA.

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Leverkaas2516@reddit

No, they're not the same. Even two V8's from different manufacturers, or from the same manufacturer 50 years apart, will drive differently. The only way they're the same is if they're held at a constant RPM, like in a generator. In that way, there's no difference between 200hp produced by two different engines, if that's what you mean by your last sentence ("a benefit at 200hp").

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revocer@reddit (OP)

This is what I am getting out. Thanks for the insight.

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Link_inbio@reddit

There's going to be so much difference, in so many ways, they'll be light years apart. The I4 car is going to be maybe 2/3 the weight of the V8 car, then there's suspension, air intake/exhaust, suspension having 50 years' worth development, the I4 200hp product will feel like a rocket. The V8 will have a nice rumble, good low end feel and cool acoustics, but that's it IMO. Example: 1987 Mustang 5.0 V8 was super popular at the time, had all kinds of power in a small car. Rated for about 200 hp and people loved it. In comparison, a low end 2018 Camaro with a pathetic little V6 had about 300 HP in a larger car that, due to tech advancements, would pull the headlights out of that '87 Mustang V8 off the line, defeat it in the corners, and the driver would be standing outside the car with a cup of coffee by the time the 5.0 crossed the 1/4 mile finish line. The domination there has everything to do with the 1000 tech advancements within the newer car, so that's why an I4, 200 hp modern car would be more dominant than the old V8 in my estimation.

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AdministrativeYam330@reddit

My 2.0 Ecoboost in my focus ST had tons of torque. You can’t generalize this much.

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CarCounsel@reddit

Don’t compare that number compare the curves.

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Independent-Drive-18@reddit

200 hp is 200hp.

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Street_Glass8777@reddit

HP does nothing. Torque is the only proper measurement of power. HP is Torque time RPM so is just a resultant.

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74orangebeetle@reddit

200 horsepower is 200 horsepower....as in, equal power...but that's just PEAK engine power...they can have completely different power curves (different power levels at different RPMS) and engine with more torque will be making more power at lower RPMs. Some engines might not make much power down low but have to revv up high to get peak power. Turbo chargers can effect this too (a large turbo might not be as strong down low, but then make a lot of power at the top of the revv range...but turbos can also be used to make power down low or in the mid range). Usually a bigger engine will make more power at lower RPMS and a smaller engine will revv higher to make the same power (But there are exceptions, especially with turbos and whatnot) Also with emissions regulations, you'll have a lot of V8s making not a lot of power. I knew someone with a 1980 Corvette that I thought looked really cool....was disappointed to learn it made around 180 horsepower (and his was an automatic) still looked awesome though.

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Gloomy-Chipmunk6612@reddit

Horsepower is torque multiplied by RPM and then divided by 63,025. So you can get the same HP with a lot of torque and a low RPM or a little bit of torque at high RPM. Torque is what actually turns the wheels though. A V8 that has a lot of HP at low RPM will feel like it moves fast when you move from a stop. A I4 that has a lot of HP at high RPM will feel fast when it accelerates for passing other vehicles. So to answer your question HP is HP. What affects how it feels is how the engine produces that number. Thats where the power curve comes in. Its a chart that tells you how much torque an engine makes at various RPM and wherever the torque is high the wheels will move the vehicle easily.

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Hersbird@reddit

But torque can be created with gearing. 200 hp at 1000 rpm will accelerate a vehicle at exactly the same rate as 200 hp at 10,000 rpm properly geared even though one makes 10 times as much torque. Toque is great but you have to be able to make it at a fast rate to become power. I can make 1000 ft-lbs with a 4 foot bar, but I can't make more than 1/2 a horsepower because I can't do it quickly.

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Gloomy-Chipmunk6612@reddit

Yes. If you add gearing to the equation it gets more complicated. But that means measuring from the wheels, and any cars OP looks up with have measurements from the crank because thats what manufacturers provide. I think they are just trying to better understand hp in relation to engines. If they really wanted to compare two actual cars they can always look at something like the 0-60 l, lap, and quarter mile times. Those make the improvements to transmissions very obvious.

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Hersbird@reddit

I'm just saying if you want to know how much power and engine makes you need a measurement of power. Hp is one or you could use kilowatts. Torque is a measurement of force. Any kind of dyno, wheel or engine, always actually measures torque over time. Which is mathematically converted to horsepower. The gearing doesn't affect the resulting horsepower except could make the calculation wrong if the gearing isn't imputed. An 8 cylinder also doesn't necessarily make more torque or more torque at a lower rpm than a 4 cylinder. Neither does a 5-liter motor automatically make more than a 2 liter. In the end though, if you want acceleration, you want the most horsepower, not torque. You see it in vehicles that have very different engine options like the Jeep Wrangler a few years back. You could get a naturally aspirated 3.6. A turbo 2.0, a turbo diesel 3.0, and even a naturally aspirated 6.4. The most interesting comparison was between the diesel 3.0 and normal gas 3.6. The diesel made way more torque (442 vs 260) and if you listened to everyone around here you would think it must have made the Jeep quicker accelerating. But the gas 3.6 made more horsepower (285 vs 260) and therefore the gas Jeep had slightly quicker 1/4 mile times. 25 more horsepower beat 182 more ft-lbs of torque. The transmissions were the same and gearing in the axles similar. Everything else was identical. So more horsepower wins the day in acceleration. Now the diesel with its torque was better at smooth, steady, constant speed like towing or pushing a brick through the air or idling down a trail.

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bigloser42@reddit

torque is the ability to apply force, HP is how quickly you can apply the force. High torque with low hp will move alot, but not quickly. High HP with low torque will eventually move quickly, but not move very much.

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Gloomy-Chipmunk6612@reddit

Yes, but in relation to consumer vehicles the RPM between 2k-5k in hp measurements. They are also comparing vehicles designed to move quickly, not a garbage truck and a fiat 500. In that context the torque curve is going to be a good reference.

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isthis_thing_on@reddit

Why that number, 63,025?

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Gloomy-Chipmunk6612@reddit

I looked it up, its for inch pounds. For ft lbs that would be used in a car its 5252. Been a while since physics class. The number is the equivalent of one hp in relation to how it is measured.

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ClimbaClimbaCameleon@reddit

Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races.

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revocer@reddit (OP)

Good quote

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KarlJay001@reddit

The difference between a 60 year old engine and a new one would be things like how the valves are controlled, how the intake/exhaust is designed, etc... You can look at something like 2 valves per cyl, push rods, like the SBF 289 or the SBC 327. Compare that to a Honda with 4 valves per cyl, twin cam, VVT, EFI ... Look at the RPM range and the total amount of torque. It could be that the Honda only makes 1/2 the torque of the SBF 289. Remember, HP is a math function. You can have an engine making 500 ft lbs of torque and only 200 HP. You can have a 200 HP engine making only 100 ft lbs of torque. It's been said that torque is what wins races. Imagine a 200 HP motorcycle engine put in a full size 1 ton pickup. Now pull that engine an put in a diesel that only revs to 3000 RPM and also has 200 HP

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Complex_Fish_5904@reddit

Engines are air pumps. HP is measured by multiplying torque x RPM and then dividing by 5252. So...the smaller the air pump, the higher the engine needs to rev in order to make the same power as a bigger pump. This also means that the horsepower rating of an engine doesn't always show the whole story. The way the power comes on can be wildly different. A big block olds 455 may make 500 ft lbs of torque but only 300hp, for instance. Torque is what you feel as you smash the accelerator but HP is what "pulls you through". So, the HP rating in 2 different cars can have very different driving characteristics. This is why it's so common to use smaller engines with turbos today. As turbos force air into the engine which makes up for the lack of displacement.

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revocer@reddit (OP)

Fascinating description. Thanks for elaborating. If I may inquire, suppose there is a V8 and an I4, both of the same exact displacement, say 2.0 or 4.0 liters. How would that impact torque.

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Complex_Fish_5904@reddit

You're starting to get into more particular details at this point. The short answer is...it depends. But generally an engine with more pistons at the same displacement is going to be more "rev happy" since the stroke on the motor has generally been reduced. Also, reciprocating mass per cylinder, stroke volume, power stroke degree phasing, etc are changed. Also, most smaller displacement motors that are V8 or v10 will be used in performance oriented platforms, so the motor has been designed to be performance oriented from the start. All things being equal, the engine with more pistons will be more sporty to drive (lambo) The engine with fewer pistons will likely be setup for better low end torque (but could be altered to make power up top, top by changing heads, cams, etc) (Chevy LS engine)

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AwarenessGreat282@reddit

200 HP is 200 HP, regardless of the cylinder count. How the vehicle uses that power depends on the gear train behind it.

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nanneryeeter@reddit

Peak horsepower numbers are somewhat not important. A nice fat curve to go along with said numbers counts.

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Gubbtratt1@reddit

If you have a cvt and constantly run the engine at 200hp, it's exactly the same. But the v8 will have the 200hp at a lot lower revs, which will make it feel more powerful to the average driver. The i4 might feel more powerful to a professional racing driver who's constantly at high revs though.

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Hydraulis@reddit

Power is a measure of how much work you can do in a given time. There is no difference in that regard. How and when the power is produced would differ. A 200 hp engine only makes 200 hp at one spot in the rev range, usually near it's maximum speed (80% of max RPM let's say). At all other engine speeds, it's making less. Exactly what speed that is varies from one engine to another, and if you graph power vs engine speed, the shape of the graph will look different too. If you're trying to perform a certain task requiring 200 hp, and you don't care about the details, there will be no difference between the two. If you want to do it at a specific fuel efficiency and engine speed, that's a different story.

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red_vette@reddit

Since horsepower is a function of torque at a particular rpm it will mostly likely be very different. What you are describing is a V8 diesel that tops out at 2500rpm vs an older I4 that hit 8500 rpm like the S2000. One could pull a stump out of the ground and the other probably not.

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Kange109@reddit

A v8 from 40 years ago rated at 200hp will not be using the same SAE rating that is currently being used by car manufacturers. Basically those 70s to early 80s engines were quoted gross power (before deducting parasitic equipment like belts).

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MaximumDerpification@reddit

As others have said, the powerband/tq curve will be quite different, a big V8 will be less peaky and will deliver power pretty linearly in comparison. But another HUGE issue is transmission advances. Old V8s often were paired with 2 or 3 speed auto transmissions (some with an OD gear) or clunky 4-speed manuals. Modern performance 4cyl engines are usually paired with a DCT that has 7 or 8 gears or a 6sp manual. I daily drive a Civic sport hatchback 1.5T with a 6sp manual transmission that weighs around 3000lbs, stock power was around 180hp and with mods+tune it's now making somewhere around 220hp. I recently just for the fun of it test drove a C4 Corvette that a friend is selling. It has an L98 (245hp) 5.7L, weighs around 3450lbs and has a 4sp auto transmission (and an excellent sounding aftermarket exhaust). I was SHOCKED at how much slower it accelerated compared to my car! I'm pretty sure the slushbox auto was the difference, it should have been quicker than my car or at least the same but it just never felt like the gearing was doing it justice.

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jules083@reddit

My dad had a 1976 Corvette, L48 350 and 3 speed automatic. I now have a 2017 Miata with a 2.0 4 cylinder and a 6 speed manual. The miata only claims to have 155hp but it's still faster than I remember the corvette being. I'd love to turbo the miata but I don't want to hurt the longevity that bad.

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HalfFrozenSpeedos@reddit

its 450lbs heavier for starters thats a 1/4 of a ton almost so thats going to dull the acceleration. You are right though the auto box and the gear ratios aren't focused towards quick acceleration, more likely top speed vs the civic which will have a shorter ratio box with gear ratios aimed at giving the car sharp acceleration

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RKEPhoto@reddit

Torque just entered the chat

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Amazing-League-218@reddit

Ford's 6 cylinder ecoboost 2.7 engine produces 325 hp and 400 foot pounds of torque at about 2800 rpms. The 5.0L Coyote V8 engine produces 480 hp at 7150 rpms, 415 foot lbs of torque at 4900 rpm. So it would seem the ecoboost produces it's power well within the needs of every day driving. Also, at energy efficient rpm range.

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Advanced-Power991@reddit

horsepower is a unit of work, nothing more, and what you are asking about is the torque curve, different engines produce different amounts of torque at different RPMs

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zel_bob@reddit

Also all depends on the weight. 200hp weighing at 1200 pounds will be a lot different than 200hp weighing in at 600 pounds. Look at motorcycles. 150 hp at 460 pounds crazy fast.

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Bb42766@reddit

I'm pretty sure Ford a d Shelby proved the theory 60 years ago at Lemans. There is NO replacement for Displacement. And figured the V8 you want to compare to a I4 would have considerable cubic inch Displacement difference

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Carlpanzram1916@reddit

They won’t preform exactly the same. The horsepower figure listed is the peak horsepower that the engine reach at a very specific RPM. So the peak hp may be the same but the amount of power they put out across the entire rev cycle with be different. The same goes with their torque figures. In theory, a larger engine with more cylinders would deliver more power across the rev cycle but when you’re talking about a 50 year old engine, it’s quite possible that the newer I4 preforms better by almost all measures. It just depends on the engines. But technology has advanced a lot since the 70’s.

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brassplushie@reddit

Everyone’s given you the technical answer. But I think you want a simple answer. The answer is no. The V8 will be faster, to put it in simple terms. But an I6 will be faster than a V8 at equal horsepower.

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MisterBitterness42@reddit

This whole thread reads like a bunch of GM fanboys honestly. V8 biG v8 bEtteR

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caverunner17@reddit

I think what would be interesting is comparing smaller V6's with larger I4's. Example Ford's 2.7 V6TT vs Chevy's I4 2.7T Or compare an older Ford 2.5 Duratec V6 with any of the modern 2.5L I4's

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Slomo2012@reddit

Very different imo I own a 2018 2.0t, drove a 6.2 NA rental for a week last year. Even with the newer engine, it was possible to feel the extra mass in the v8 trying to spin up. It was also in a much heavier car, so the whole experience felt very underwhelming. The 2.0t is tuned to give almost 300 ft lbs \*before\* 2k rpm. It also has a 10spd auto, so it is almost always in the sweet spot for maximum torque. It pulls harder than most v8 cars I've driven, and it still gets over 30mpg. Shifts a lot, but it's a small price to pay in a full size car.

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Existing_Fig4676@reddit

Depends. Aspiration, fuel delivery and ignition system all play a role in how an engine delivers power. Let’s say you have two identical cars, say miatas. One has a 60s V8 swapped in and the other is a modern turbo small displacement I4 with all the tech- direct injection, VVTi etc. That 4 banger would decimate the V8 in any scenario any day of the week. Just peak torque from 2000 rpm all the way to redline around 6500

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Educational_Tea7782@reddit

WTF do they teach you people in school nowadays?

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LazyLancer@reddit

Most likely the V8 were talking about will have way higher displacement. Then, as everyone already mentioned, it will have more torque in the low rpm range. However, if we were to take an imaginary V8 with the same displacement as an I4, then they would be very similar. So, the major difference comes from displacement first and foremost, not from the number or placement of cylinders.

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rudbri93@reddit

well now i wanna see dyno graphs comparing the porsche 3.0 4 cyl and bmws 3.0 v8.

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LazyLancer@reddit

There will be a difference based on bore vs stroke, but not as crucial as in the case of 6 liter V8 vs a 2 liter I4.

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mmaalex@reddit

Torque and power curve matter too. Smaller engines typically run high RPMs to make that HP, and most cars engines are really only designed to make high HP for short intervals. Most of the expected engine life your car will cruise on a flat highway putting out a fraction of its full rated HP. Bigger engines like commercial diesels are derated to last longer. So where something like a Detroit 6-71 can make 200 HP all day, your Honda would fall apart pretty quick under the same conditions.

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Sweet-Gushin-Gilfs@reddit

Same, but different. It’s the same power, but it’ll feel different. It could be NA, turbo, the tuning can be different, torque makes a massive difference as well. A 2L 4 banger screamer making peak power at 7k rpm is much different to a relaxed V8 making peak at 4K. The benefit to using a 4cyl would be weight, fuel, and space savings. PS: 4 bangers were making 200hp almost 40 years ago. Doesn’t even have to be modern lol

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mess1ah1@reddit

HP is HP, no matter what it’s made from. It’s like a pound of gold and a pound of feathers. They weigh the same. But one’s gonna drop a heck of a lot faster than the other (outside of a vacuum), i.e., power curve and torque etc.

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Snoo_85901@reddit

Yes it is different the i4 will make the power at the top of the rpm where the v8 makes it at the bottom. A example would be trying to take a racing 4 wheeler into the woods to pull out at deer when you have the 4wheeler that makes its power on the bottom with low rpm’s that you won’t have to worry about burning the clutch up pulling it out.

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chuckie8604@reddit

8 cylinders weigh more than 4.

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IBringTheHeat1@reddit

Crazy to think a V6 Camry today makes as much horsepower from V12’s of 50 years ago

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buildyourown@reddit

Weight will be very different and that makes a pretty big difference on how power feels

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RicketyDestructor@reddit

On a fundamental level, 200hp is 200hp. But there are some nuances. A high-revving naturally aspirated I4 will usually make much less power and torque at low RPM. So the V8 will feel punchier if you're rolling along slowly and then hit the gas. A turbo I4 might also make good power/torque at low RPM. Maybe a bit of turbo lag, meaning a bit less precise throttle response, but could have a similar power curve overall. Of course the above is assuming that the V8 has greater displacement than the I4. Which is USUALLY true. But there's nothing that says a V8 has to have large displacement or a 4 cyl has to be small. Ferrari made a 2.0L V8, which is about the same displacement as many modern 4 cylinder engines, and smaller than some. A 2.0L V8 and a 2.0L I4 would have very similar power curves assuming that the technology and tuning used in each were roughly the same. And there was a switch in the way that HP was advertised in the US in 1971-1972, when they went from gross to net HP. Gross is the engine's raw output. Net is what you get after accounting for the power losses driving the typical accessories like water pump, alternator, power steering etc. So net is a more realistic measurement of the power available to move a car in which the engine is installed. So if you have a pre-1971 V8 making 200hp gross, and a modern I4 making 200hp net, the 200 net HP is actually more power. Then there's also "wheel" HP, as measured on a dyno. That has never been used in official manufacturer figures, but you'll see it talked about when people are modifying cars. Numbers at the wheels will be lower than the manufacturer's advertised HP, which is measured at the crankshaft. Wheel HP accounts for losses through the driveline (primarily the transmission and differential(s)). The exact numbers will vary but it's safe to say that 200 wheel hp > 200 net hp > 200 gross hp. The V8 will sound better 10/10 times.

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Hersbird@reddit

Yes hp is hp, a scientific measurement. Now those numbers are usually peak numbers which is great for an engine or motor that operates at a constant speed. Otherwise you need to look at hp over the operating range and see the total area under the curve.

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LeaningSaguaro@reddit

Don’t let anyone tell you this is a stupid question, because it’s actually a great engineering question. As others have said, yes, 200hp is 200hp, but the torque experience is likely very different. A smaller motor with small pistons might crank out 200hp, but might only do that at a high rpm range, and the effective torque band might be very narrow or large depending on a few things. Enter in forced induction (turbo), and things continue to change. Funny enough, my 2004 Jeep with a 4.7 V8 has a really fantastic torque curve, where as my 2024 Toyota Tacoma with an I4-turbo has a really uninteresting torque curve, while making almost double the power in HP and torque.

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RedVikingOg@reddit

Without bringing torque into the equation, the short answer is yes.

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WorkerEquivalent4278@reddit

People buy HP but drive torque. That big engine will feel way faster making more torque with less noise. That smaller engine unless it’s a diesel will need to rev very high to make significant power. The smaller engine will feel tinny and noisy if you grew up driving big v8 engines.

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Gweedo1967@reddit

HP yes. Torque curve will be different.

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TacoOfDeath10@reddit

I think a big factor here would be weight differences

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NurgleTheUnclean@reddit

Advertised HP from 40 to 60 years ago is different. So the same engine from 60 years ago would have a lower HP than than today. If we are talking about peak HP on a Dyno then 200hp is 200hp, regardless of number of cylinders or displacement.

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Grandemestizo@reddit

Each engine will make power a little, or a lot, differently, so yes one may have some advantage.

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Smooth-Apartment-856@reddit

There’s two ways to measure the output of an engine…horsepower and torque. Torque is how much “twisting force” an engine generates. Think about tightening a bolt down with a 1 foot long wrench. If you put one pound of pressure on the wrench, you have one foot pound of torque. If you put two pounds of pressure on it, you have two foot pounds of torque. If you have a 3 foot long wrench, and you are putting 3 pounds of pressure on it, then you have 9 foot pounds of torque. Length x weight = torque. Horsepower is a measure of how fast an engine can produce its torque. If you know the engine speed and the amount of Torque it produces, you can calculate horsepower. The Formula is (Torque x Engine RPM)/5252. As a (very broad) rule of thumb, an engine needs to consume a certain amount of air to make a certain amount of horsepower. Most methods of making an engine more powerful involve getting more air inside the engine. I have a Mazda with a 2.0 L 4 cylinder, and a Mercury with a 6.6L V8. They both make in the neighborhood of 160 horsepower. The Mercury redlines at about 4,000 rpm. The Mazda makes 6,000. The Mercury’s big V8 makes twice the torque as the Mazda. At 3000 RPM, it’s sucking in as much air as the Mazda at 6000, and making more horsepower. At low engine speeds, the Mercury has more horsepower available than the Mazda, because engines only make their peak horsepower rating at a rather narrow RPM range, typically close to wide open throttle. So taking off from a stop, when the engine speeds are low, a bigger engine will have more power available than a smaller one. This is why the 2.0 4 cylinder in my 2800 pound Mazda would struggle to get my 4500 pound Mercury moving from a stop. A bigger engine gulps in more air at lower speeds than a smaller one, and makes more power. Now if I put a bigger cam, and freer flowing heads, intake, carb, and exhaust on the Mercury, and got it where it could rev as high as the Mazda, it would probably make 3 times the horsepower. But it’s a 1970’s smog motor, and wasn’t designed to breathe very well.

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JawnDough00@reddit

Torque and RPM are going to be the main differences. The V8 will make peak torque and horsepower power at much lower RPMs. It will also likely make significantly more torque. This is why bigger engines feel more powerful. An engine's power is directly related to how much air you can move through it. There are three ways to increase the amount of air moving through an engine, speed (RPM), displacement (size), compression (boost via a turbo or supercharger). The intended use of the engine determines which is the best way to generate power.

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LeadfootYT@reddit

There’s a power curve as mentioned, but the metric you’re envisioning is torque.

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Pernium@reddit

HP is measured more accurately today then 30-40 years ago

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MarkVII88@reddit

Depends on several things. 1. What transmission is hooked up to each engine? 1. Automatic (3 spd, 4spd, 5spd, 6 spd) 2. Manual (4 spd, 5spd, 6 spd) 2. What is the final drive ratio of the transmission 1. Is the car geared low 2. Is the car geared high 3. Is the engine naturally aspirated or is the engine turbocharged? 4. What is the torque output of the engine, and at what RPM? 1. Is the torque good for low-end 2. Do you have to rev the engine out to get most torque 5. How much does each vehicle weigh?

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