OK to practice maneuvers while getting flight following?

There's been a recent training push about it. It's simple but previously not a lot of controllers knew or could remember the command, or maybe wouldn't think to enable it for VFR targets. Remember that our sectors are very specialized, and one controller might only learn how to work 6 sectors their entire career. If VFR traffic is rare in that sector then you tend to forget what isn't used. (That's what recurrent simulator training is for)

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randombrain@reddit

Yes, and it's not even convoluted—two keystrokes and then clicking on your target. But I don't think very many controllers know that it's even possible.

We can also make an entry (again, two keystrokes and clicking on your target) which will remove the "this target is VFR" indicator, which would then mean that we interpret the target to be IFR. When we do that it automatically turns on MSAW.

And that's without changing your squawk code at all. We can also make a separate entry to affirmatively tell the computer "This target is now IFR," as opposed to just removing the "VFR" flag. This third entry will cause the computer to assign you a squawk from the by-default-MSAW-is-enabled local code bank, and we tell you to squawk the new code.

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XxVcVxX@reddit

VFR only routes for a 135 I worked for used to require us to ask ATC for MSAW. It's pretty straightforward, thanks to all you guys.

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DuelingPushkin@reddit

Thank you! And excuse my ignorance but wouldn't options 2 and 3 mean you'd then have to treat the aircraft as IFR or risk a potential QA report for loss of separation when there wasn't actually any?

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randombrain@reddit

Yes, exactly. Only the first option is for changing MSAW while keeping the target VFR. The other two options are for changing the actual flight rules status of the aircraft (at least as displayed on the scope; if you were on a NAS flight plan and destined to be handed off to another facility we would also have to go to another computer and edit something there too). I just mentioned them for completeness.

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DuelingPushkin@reddit

Okay awesome just want to clarify. Thanks for enlightening me, had no idea option 1 existed!

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tomsawyerisme@reddit

Great questions! I also learned alot from randombrains responses

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PutOptions@reddit

Sure. I used to do it often. Depending on the circumstance they'd rather be talking with you. Once I was just monitoring and they called me up, politely asking me to get the hell out of the arrivals corridor or stay below 3000, lol.

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walleyednj@reddit

Just tell them where you are and what you’re doing.

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WeatherIcy6509@reddit

The answer all questions regarding ATC and "can I do this" lol.

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Status-Hat-9012@reddit

This

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FlyJunior172@reddit

“Approach, Bugsmasher 123AB would like to do some maneuvering in the area for a bit”

Vast majority of times, it won’t be an issue. And of the times it is, the vast majority of those they’re going to ask you to wait or pick another spot to maintain separation. Potomac TRACON will sometimes even help you separate proactively while you’re maneuvering.

You can even get maneuvering approval inside of Bravo if you make the right request at the right time. “Approach, Bugsmasher 123AB would like to maneuver for photo op over the stadiums, inner harbor, Fort McHenry and Key Bridge”. I’ve gotten that approval like half a dozen times.

In Bravo, be prepared for an altitude restriction; and in all cases be prepared for your advisories to change or stop while you’re maneuvering.

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Creative-Grocery2581@reddit

You can explain all that in your initial request. Tell everything you intend to do upfront and it shouldn’t be a problem.

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ltcterry@reddit

I do it frequently. Maneuvering including spins, spirals down onto final, and more mundane things. When in the D I ask for permission. Outside I tell them what I’m doing, and express willingness to move if it’s in a bad location.

Although it requires explicit permission I’ve done maneuvers IFR too.

Taking candidates to ME checkrides is a 107-mile flight. I try to do “one of each” on the way there as the final lesson.

Whether flight following, traffic advisories, or IFR you can always ask.

I find a well planned several mile glide back to landing after doing spins to be doubly good training :)

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hartzonfire@reddit

My CFI on my discovery flight picked up advisories from TRACON. He just said “we’re gonna be heading out over the lake at 4500 for some maneuvers” and they proceeded to give him traffic advisories and a heading to follow at one point. Seemed pretty straight forward.

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Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

Uh yeah.

I do them on IFR flight plans.. lol. For a clearance I just ask for a block of altitude and airspace and make sure I’m VMC. Common for on-wing training and check rides where the airports we are using are IMC or there’s a low ceiling with clear air above.

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MeatServo1@reddit

Not only that, but you can also do maneuvers on an IFR plan. “Center, N12345, requesting left and right 360s along on the airway until FFIXX waypoint.” Or ask for a block altitude for stalls. Throw in lateral deviations left and right of course with that block altitude for chandelles, lazy eights, and emergency descents. Or if you’re a maniac, request a working area that’s [whatever altitudes] between 20 and 40 miles DME from XYZ VOR between radials ### and ###. If you get hemmed up, just use plain English, but maintain your concision and brevity in the radio.

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Kollsman_Window@reddit

I had my MIL on a xc, she asked to see the Colorado River some more en route, flight following. I made the first of two 45* slow turns and by the 2nd turn back to course, center was asking what was going on

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bhalter80@reddit

Up by me approach prefers you use FF because of the proximity to the approach path for rwy 6@MHT

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Kitchen-Listen-7369@reddit

My flight school is based out of a Charlie airport we always have flight following we just inform clearance that we are going to the practice area for maneuvers

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EagleE4@reddit

We used to do this at my old flight school just keep atc in the loop

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Low_Sky_49@reddit

“I’ll be VFR, maneuvering at [altitude(s)] 10 miles west of Coolsville airport, requesting traffic advisories.” Easy as that.

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agjeiofdsjk@reddit (OP)

thank you everyone for the helpful comments so far. Will give a heads up to ATC as I practice maneuvers while getting flight following.

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morerudder@reddit

I’ve done most of my training maneuvers to date while using flight following.

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buchwaldjc@reddit

Never had the experience with flight following. But I did sometimes want to do some maneuvers in a class Charlie because my house was located under the airspace. And I often wanted to do some photography work over it. It probably depends on the area, but they were always amenable. Just said "maintain visual separation."

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Dependent-Ad1927@reddit

I'm only a private pilot and am in Alaska but my experience with flight following has been pretty casual. I'd be willing to bet that if I just said I'm going to practice turns around a point real quick or something they wouldn't care.

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EmergencyTime2859@reddit

I wouldn’t suggest using specific maneuver names like “turns around a point” because most controllers aren’t pilots and won’t know what you mean. Sure they might guess you’re just gonna be doing 360s but ya never know. Just say you’re gonna do some maneuvering at present position or something.

Occasionally when I’m working ground the tower controller will have a pilot say they’re going to be doing a short field takeoff and the tower controller asks me what it means lol. Most of us aren’t pilots and don’t know pilot terms.

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Dependent-Ad1927@reddit

Now that I would never have thought about thanks! I guess I just assumed they knew the terminology.

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EmergencyTime2859@reddit

Yeah pilots tend to think we know more about flying than we actually do. There’s been dozens of not hundreds of times a pilot says something and my coworker asks me what they mean lol.

But on the flip side I have heard controllers use ATC terms with pilots that I know most pilots wouldn’t understand. We both do it

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Dependent-Ad1927@reddit

Totally fair. We're all humans and we're constantly learning

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Wandrews123@reddit

I did all the maneuvers for my multi ride on FF. Accidentally (nervous) pressed the ptt button when reading back the DPE’s simulated ATC instructions and approach was like, um whuuttt? I said ready to cancel…

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MontgomeryEagle@reddit

Some approach controls prefer you be on FF with local advisories when doing maneuvers. Just tell them what you're doing.

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YoItsNickyMo@reddit

My thoughts: I fly in part 93 airspace that requires communication with ATC at all times. There is a "practice" area where we go and do maneuvers. The understanding is there for us already given the airspace situation so both parties already know what to expect when we fly in this practice area. We are VFR and free to maneuver at will in this large area and we still get traffic alerts while doing maneuvers. If you wish to do something like that on your XC, I would suggest asking ATC well in advance (mileage wise) if you could use an area of X general dimensions near a certain point. Or just request it at roughly your current location and they may give you other options. You last option is to tell them you want to cancel and pick back up after your maneuvers. This way, they would keep all of your information and not have to copy it all back down after you call them 20 minutes later.

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I was thinking about practicing some maneuvers during my next XC and then realized that it might raise some eyebrows on ATC's end.

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