How come USAF named their new bomber B-21 instead of B-3 following previous numerical sequence?

[-]

todd0x1@reddit

So the adversaries think we have 18 other secret bombers.

[-]

hoppertn@reddit

You may be joking but Seal Team 6 was not the 6th Seal Team created.

[-]

Kardinal@reddit

Indeed.

The US military deliberately does not name units sequentially or even use sequential serial numbers on some weapons systems to avoid how that might give intelligence to the enemy.

It's probably not as relevant as it once was but AFAIK is still normal practice.

[-]

SirLoremIpsum@reddit

"if every piece of equipment is named M1 the enemy will have no idea what is coming"

"Amazing General, simply amazing. Have a third star"

[-]

Kardinal@reddit

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem#Historical_example_of_the_problem

According to conventional Allied intelligence estimates, the Germans were producing around 1,400 tanks a month between June 1940 and September 1942. Applying the formula below to the serial numbers of captured tanks, the number was calculated to be 246 a month. After the war, captured German production figures from the ministry of Albert Speer showed the actual number to be 245.[3]

Was contingent on the Nazis using a sequential serial numbering system for their tank production.

[-]

nasadowsk@reddit

The Germans loved keeping accurate records of everything, and we took advantage of that during the war.

They also tended to give projects code names that had some sort of meaning, which sometimes gave clues as to what they were. IIRC, one or two radar / distance finding systems were figured out before use because of the code names, which intelligence managed to find out.

Which is why modern development projects in the US are random words.

[-]

Xivios@reddit

And in Canada, our elite special forces are JTF2. There is no JTF1.

[-]

todd0x1@reddit

i was, but i figured it has been done. I knew, and forgot, about the seal team 6 thing.

[-]

A37BWest@reddit

Worked with Seal Team 6

[-]

BikeSawBrew@reddit

Kind of like the misdirection in naming the F-117

[-]

crazee_dad_logic@reddit

Do they know about the B-52?

[-]

todd0x1@reddit

I don't know about any with higher numbers, my clearance only goes up to 22.

Uh-oh.

[-]

WeekendMechanic@reddit

What about the other 31 bombers on the other side of the number line?

[-]

horrible_noob@reddit

AVERT YOUR EYES CHINA THIS MAN HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S REFERRING TO

[-]

todd0x1@reddit

I just developed the plot for the next Taylor Sheridan show. Monty's oil company in landman is a front for the operating building the other 18 secret bombers and then a Lioness is gonna come for me before the chinese can capture me to extract my knowledge.

[-]

poemdirection@reddit

Are these bombers shaped like horses by any chance?

[-]

er1catwork@reddit

That fly in circles really fast?

[-]

todd0x1@reddit

no, those are for extracting a special kind of oil which gets made into JP99 a special jet fuel required by the 18 secret bombers that only Mtex can make (vertical integration + captive customer) except in S2 of 'Oily Lioness' we learn that Angela's ex Victor has stolen the formula for JP99 and has partnered with Cooper's new oil concern to produce the fuel for China. Only Tommy knows that the Cartel has stolen one of the 18 secret bomber prototypes and sold it to China, he is keeping his mouth shut as the cartel has threatened to hijack his cigarette deliveries.

hey TS I have all sorts of crazy plots that paramount would probably pay for DM me.

[-]

TheRealtcSpears@reddit

For the russkies to have their own Bomber Gap.

and by Bomber I mean cardboard.

and by Gap I mean some conscrpitovitch sells the cardboard for potato water.

[-]

Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

What bomber gap?

They have the largest and fastest bombers in existence.

They don’t need stealth because they can launch stand off weapons against carrier groups far beyond the range of any MigCAP or defensive missiles.

[-]

alexmadsen1@reddit

Don’t even get me started on the SR 71.

[-]

Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

It was a bomber designation following the XB-70.. as many bombers were also used for reconnaissance (RB-36, RB-47) plus they’d planned a bomber version called the B-71.

The original RS-71 kind of followed this replacing the B with S for Strike. General Curtiss LeMay changed the designation to SR-71 (for Strategic Reconnaissance) so it would sound more impressive and briefed the president on the change.. but none of the pamphlets had been changed so it seemed like a presidential gaffe.

[-]

Ficsit-Incorporated@reddit

For those who don’t know: the SR-71 was originally designated RS-72, for Reconnaissance Surveillance 1971. When it was unveiled to the public the White House called it the SR-71, and rather than correct them the Air Force changed the designation.

[-]

KingBobIV@reddit

Either name is nonsense, since that's not how the MDS/TMS system work. The S means anti submarine warfare, not Surveillance.

SR-71 means a reconnaissance aircraft that's been modified to perform anti-submarine warfare, while RS-71 would be an anti-submarine aircraft that's been modified to perform reconnaissance. Obviously neither is an accurate description of the SR-71.

[-]

kd8qdz@reddit

Wait wait wait. Are you telling me that the fastest air breathing aircraft in history* isnt used to hunt submarines?!

*Fastest so far.

[-]

Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

There’s more.

The J58 engines it uses were originally designed for a giant flying boat.

This is why they have a compressor that’s way too large and has to be bypassed (it’s not required for Mach 3 flight on other engines that either have smaller compressors on the Mig-25 or can unload them via variable stators for the XB-70).

[-]

wunderkit@reddit

Wow! I thought those Navy people were smoking something when they named aircraft. Now I'm sure.

[-]

KingBobIV@reddit

What? It's a DOD instruction, not Navy

[-]

Peter_Merlin@reddit

Not the first nor last time the MDS system was abused and/or ignored.

[-]

Aviator779@reddit

That story is a myth.

The designation was originally supposed to be RS-71, however USAF Chief of Staff General Curtis LeMay preferred the SR (Strategic Reconnaissance) designation and wanted the RS-71 to be named SR-71.

The Blackbird was formally revealed by LBJ on the 24th of July 1964. Before that speech, LeMay lobbied to modify Johnson’s speech to read “SR-71” instead of “RS-71”. The media transcript given to the press at the time still had the earlier RS-71 designation in places, creating the story that the president had misread the aircraft’s designation.

[-]

Kardinal@reddit

Do you know if the selection of 71 was to be sequential after the valkyrie? I always wondered about the actual number.

[-]

alexmadsen1@reddit

Are you saying Ben Rich was misinformed in his book or at least his ghost writer was misinformed?

[-]

Kardinal@reddit

It is entirely possible. I believe Ben Rich wrote his memoir, which I've read and is amazing, at a time when that kind of information might have been much harder to get your hands on. Just looked it up. 1994. The web is an infant at the time.

So it's no terrible mistake if Rich was in fact misinformed. We sometimes forget how hard it was to get to primary or authoritative sources before the internet.

[-]

WanderlustZero@reddit

Curtis Lmao

[-]

Jezzer111@reddit

And thus Reconnaissance Surveillance became Strategic Reconnaissance

[-]

wil9212@reddit

I remember reading that in Skunk Works. How crazy.

[-]

Historical_Gur_3054@reddit

Because the DoD/USAF loves to come up with designation systems that will be followed to a "T" (this time, for real) and then immediately toss out all of that out for the next aircraft.

[-]

Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

Unified 1962 designation starting at the beginning for fighters again…. And lets call the new one the F-111!

[-]

MandolinMagi@reddit

The M27 it's-totally-machine-gun-we-swear, no we didn't want H&K toys on the sly, has (had?) the M38 subvarient.

The only difference is the optic

[-]

Cool-Acanthaceae8968@reddit

USAF numbering conventions make little to no sense.

Like the F-117. What happened to the 5 aircraft between it and the F-111? And F-111… why were they still designating it with the pre-1962 numbering system? And why F? These were all bombers (B) or attack aircraft (A)?

Same with the F-35. The F-18 Hornet, F-19 was skipped to avoid confusion with the Mig-19, the F-20 was the Tigershark, the F-21 was the IAI Kfir in USAF service, and of course the F-22 Raptor and YF-23 was the unsuccessful Northrop contender. But where are all the other ones between the F-23 and F-35? Well it was the X-35 designation.. which followed X planes from the X-1 on up.

[-]

StuckHedgehog@reddit

Official reason is to signify it as the first bomber of the 21st century. Press fluff and such.

[-]

The_Shryk@reddit

I swear they really need to hire a marketing department to head these decisions. But some jackass general that wants to get his next promotion just pines to think up some stupid garbage thinking it’s so creative.

What’s next after B-21?

B-21.1 ?

B-21A ?

Some new prick of a general yet to be birthed will name the next bomber B-2077 to signify the year it was released and the dystopian nature of the world we live in since it’ll be used to blow up anything and everything.

[-]

AlphSaber@reddit

Given the military's development schedule, B-22 for the first bomber of the 22nd century.

[-]

budoucnost@reddit

simple. Wait until the 22nd century so you can unveil the B-22

[-]

painlesspics@reddit

B-22, introduced just in time to join the B-52's low earth orbit upgrade.

Buff in space!

[-]

YamThreeFive@reddit

B-52 named because it’ll still be flying in the 52nd century

[-]

mightymike24@reddit

B-20. Duh

[-]

metallica239@reddit

B-21 Series S

[-]

Andoverian@reddit

B-1776 Founding Fathers Edition

Bonus from my wife:

They can't call this one the B-3 because they'd have to call the next one the B-4, and no one would take it seriously.

[-]

The_Shryk@reddit

B-21 One Series X Pro Ultimate Limited pre-order Edition.

From the twisted minds of DethCorpse Defense Systems behold the ultimate airborne nightmare—for the poors—a stealth bomber so advanced it makes peace OBSOLETE! explosion sounds

Pre-order now and receive these exclusive perks!

1-day early First Strike bombing rights! Be one of the first to annihilate a nameless village, town, or encampment of your choosing!

Season pass for all future conflicts! This pass allows you to enter what to others are non-permissive environments so you can participate in any and all skirmishes, conflicts, and ethically dubious campaigns. Don’t let your competition have all the fun! They won’t even see it coming! (Literally, thanks to our state of the art stealth tech).

100 additional War Crime Tokens, get out of trouble with these redeemable credits for when you inevitably hit an unintended civilian target.

Exclusive soundtrack download! Includes DJ Collateral Damage’s explosive new hit single “Shock and Awe (dance remix)”.

Auto-NFT kill counter! Your warpath isn’t complete without exclusive-to-you NFTs generated by capturing your target’s face just before impact! Who ever said crime doesn’t pay? 8k resolution 800x zoom God’s Eye not included*

The first 100 orders will receive exclusive “oops!” Stickers for your unguided bombs and glow-in-the-dark munitions decals to see your justice streaking through the night!

DethCorpse Defense Systems: Putting the FUN back into Taxpayer Funded Warcrimes since 2077!

[-]

SiriuslyAndrew@reddit

I feel like I just got blasted an ad straight out of Idiocracy.

[-]

The_Shryk@reddit

Welcome to BAE Blasters: Please fuck my wife.

[-]

YetAnotherPsyop@reddit

Raytheon hire this guy 😂

[-]

Verb_Noun_Number@reddit

B-21 Series S Pro Max

[-]

scottydg@reddit

B-21-U

[-]

Pubics_Cube@reddit

Super Extreme Alpha Turbo II

[-]

fighter_pil0t@reddit

The B52 will be flying till 2050 and the b21 will likely be purchased for the next couple decades. There’s a significant chance this is the only bomber of this century.

[-]

bigcitydreaming@reddit

There were various other bombers developed and manufactured between the B-52's inception and 2050 though. I don't think it's a significant chance at all that there won't be another bomber designed, developed, and manufactured in the second 50 years of this century.

[-]

fighter_pil0t@reddit

And 50 years before the B52 flew airplanes weren’t a thing. No one can predict what will change in 50 years in combat aviation but I would not at all be surprised if bomber type aircraft were obsolete.

[-]

bigcitydreaming@reddit

That's a great point highlighting how much development can take place over the course of 50 years. I'd be surprised if the concept of a bomber doesn't exist in some capacity even if it's a lot more evolved than current projects. Likely unmanned, for starters.

[-]

abbot_x@reddit

I will take that bet. I think the post-1962 B- series will only ever have three members: B-1, B-2, and B-21.

[-]

bigcitydreaming@reddit

Sure. Note, I'm talking about primary bombers in any capacity regardless of naming conventions/nomenclature, and including the Hustler as a bomber introduced post B-52.

[-]

Excellent_Speech_901@reddit

The problem is they make these decisions like a marketing department. They had (and AFAIK officially still have) a well defined formal system for these designations and they just don't follow them any more.

[-]

rounding_error@reddit

B21-MAX.

[-]

Happybeaver2024@reddit

B 3.0 Gen2x2

[-]

HeadfulOfGhosts@reddit

B-21 Version 2408 Build 17928.20392

[-]

Shidhe@reddit

Any changes to the B-21 baseline model will be A, B, C, ect.

Who know’s what the next bomber will be.

Look at the Navy. We went from the ‘Burkes with hull numbers from DDG 51-100+. The next DD then became DDX 1-3. We made 3 and then went back to building DDGs.

[-]

BaronVonLame@reddit

I think the most appropriate name for is B-2.1 as it is just a modified version of a B-2.

[-]

Delgadoduvidoso@reddit

The B-52 got its name because it’ll be around until the 52nd century.

[-]

YamThreeFive@reddit

Whoops missed this one before I commented. Your comment needs to be higher!

[-]

PreparationWinter174@reddit

I'm devastated someone realised that the B1 (affectionately known as the 'Bone') update being designated the B1-R was going to cause a lot of giggling if it went ahead.

[-]

YamThreeFive@reddit

https://youtu.be/t9tZEcSc1qo?si=jR0AZYjMUZhSHDg9

[-]

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

Submission of political posts and comments are not allowed, Rule 7. Continued political comments will create a permanent ban.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[-]

OldeFortran77@reddit

Please don't adopt the Microsoft Xbox naming convention. No one will ever know which plane you are referring to.

[-]

VayVay42@reddit

You can't convince me that designation was an accident. Some underpaid, underappreciated wag at the Pentagon absolutely knew what they were doing.

[-]

nighthawke75@reddit

The B-21 Raider is named after the Doolittle Raiders, a group of airmen who launched a surprise attack on Japan during World War II. The B-21 was also named to reflect its status as the first bomber of the 21st century.

[-]

MandolinMagi@reddit

Neither of those reasons make any actual sense. You're supposed to use numbers in order, and airplanes don't get named for groups of people.

[-]

chunkymonk3y@reddit

It doesn’t have to make sense when there isn’t actually any official naming system that they have to abide by.

[-]

AirusHozekia@reddit

Good bot

[-]

BiggyShake@reddit

Honestly, B-3 is kind of a dumb name.

[-]

CrustoseLichen@reddit

I wonder if the US is quietly moving towards unique numbers for its manned aircraft types? For example: (1) the new TACAMO version of the C-130J will be the E-130J, not EC-130J; (2) the X-35 led to the F-35; (3) the EC-37B has been renamed the EA-37B in the "attack" series. In that case, the B-21 may be 21 because the number is becoming relatively free - it is mostly still used by the C-21A Learjet (1970s) and U-21 King Air (1960s) (the F-21A was some leased IAI Kfirs). Does anyone know?

[-]

MandolinMagi@reddit

E-130J might be due to the C-130 line running out of letters for subvariants.

[-]

Guysmiley777@reddit

They'll start sounding like canadian airports. C-130YYZ

[-]

Aerocat08@reddit

You have it wrong… it’s the B-2.1

[-]

chiang01@reddit

B-2.1

[-]

wighty@reddit

mm, saying "Bee Two One" out loud makes me feel like one of its nicknames should be the "Three Two One"

[-]

dohzer@reddit

B-2B

[-]

k_marts@reddit

This is always how I thought of it. The B-21 is more of an enhanced iteration of the B-2 instead of this big generational jump in capability.

[-]

Jezzer111@reddit

This⬆️

[-]

xlvi_et_ii@reddit

B2+1 ;)

[-]

Kom4K@reddit

aggie math

[-]

Rubensteezy@reddit

I like to think it's because its basically the B2.1

[-]

Lampwick@reddit

My favorite humorous theory is that because it leverages so much of previously existing domain knowledge and design strategy from the B-2 program that they named it the "B-2.1" and then dropped the "."...

[-]

These-Bedroom-5694@reddit

It's because the Airforce doesn't number good.

[-]

Fromtheli@reddit

B3 is reserved for our great multi-function pen

[-]

nafarba57@reddit

I like the retro sound of the four syllable moniker—it’s got that old style ruff and tuff that’s appropriate for a bomber.

[-]

StorminXX@reddit

It should be B-12 for the B One Two punch

[-]

_CMacDaddy_@reddit

At least the Navy wasn’t involved in the naming of the aircraft. The Navy would have used a designation like KBTF21.

[-]

Arcal@reddit

Maybe it's B2.1, like software, a major revision of the B2.0

[-]

Miserable-Lawyer-233@reddit

21st century, baby!

[-]

Potential_Wish4943@reddit

Usually this has to do with projects that are approved by congress/DOD but never come to fruition. There was a YF-17 for instance that eventually morphed into the Hornet.

[-]

jakinatorctc@reddit

Also YF-23 vs YF-22, X-32 vs X-35, YA-9 vs YA-10. A lot of designations get taken up by prototypes especially when there’s a design competition

[-]

wunderkit@reddit

Just the number the dart hit.

[-]

alexmadsen1@reddit

Shouldn’t it really be the B-53 if we’re going in order. Although you could argue the F-117 was bomber so this one should be a B-118

[-]

nalc@reddit

They reset in 1962 and have only developed two* bombers since then

*F-117 nonwithstanding

[-]

hellorhighwaterice@reddit

Which is sort of in sequence with the F-111 which is also a bomber

[-]

nalc@reddit

The F-111 was launched in 1961 so was one of the highest numbered fighters before they restarted the sequence. Things got a little wonky during the transition - some of them got redesignated and others rolled. For instance the F-111 was launched in 1961 but didn't fly until 1964 and kept it's old number, but the F-4 that flew 6 years earlier got redesignated.

XB-70 was the highest number pre-1962 bomber, although the SR-71 kinda continued that numbering without being a bomber. The B1 was the next new bomber.

[-]