Nearing 8 yoe and still mid level. What are the consequences?
Posted by abibabicabi@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 140 comments
I still have not made it to senior level and am very concerned this will affect my career. Especially given this market.
I worry that I am judged as less competent amongst my peers and will be passed over for other candidates if I try finding another job. Even if I can pass the technical and system design portions.
Ideally I would like to search for senior positions this year. What has your experience been interviewing candidates that don't hit senior with so many years of experience?
F1B3R0PT1C@reddit
Titles are dumb. My last job I was a senior because they considered 4 YOE a senior. Now I have 6 YOE at my current job and I’m a mid-level because here you need 7 YOE to be senior. I don’t think it matters that much.
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
I hope so and have the same sentiment. I get worried with comments from Zuck about mid level engineers that senior leaders then parrot at conferences. Also concepts like up or out worry me.
inspired2apathy@reddit
It's not about titles it's about ability to deal with ambiguity. I have seniors on my team who are good devs but need clear reqs and a clear direction. That's not gonna fly. I also have mid-level devs who are worse engineers but better at pushing through uncertainty.
AlarmedProf92@reddit
On the one hand, I get it. One the other, how am I supposed to know what you need built?
george_costanza_7827@reddit
There's a difference between 'good enough' and perfection. As a professional, apply your judgement.
I'm not talking about a case where a client gives you something vague like 'I want a UI that looks pretty'.
Things like, well recently one of my devs had to write a package that combined a few APIs. The requirement - take input A, B C and produce X, Y was clear. But they needed me to make a decision on so many little things, presenting me with pros and cons etc.
My guy, I don't care at this stage. JFDI as long as it produces those inputs and outputs.
We are writing software, not building bridges, things can be change, and this package was a long way from being used in production. Just use your judgement and we can iterate. Instead of obsessing over perfection.
Ultimately. We are not paid to 'write code'. But to make decisions. More seniority = more independent decision making.
ContactExtension1069@reddit
Not all software is sausage making.
george_costanza_7827@reddit
'All details in in, output out' *is* sausage making though. That's exactly what the 'bad with ambiguity' people want. They don't want to do any thinking,
In my case I gave a view of the end result, it's up to them how they implement. How is that 'sausage making'? Maybe you need to make one yourself lol
ContactExtension1069@reddit
Carry on with your crud API with a database and stay away from personal attacks.
george_costanza_7827@reddit
Respectfully, you need to take your own advice.
Not only did you fail to contribute anything meaningful to the discussion by deriding the example. without any elaboration.
You also failed to read the post properly. The example was about making a package combining APIs, I'm certainly not working on a 'crud API with a database'. I guess that shows the limits of your understanding and reading comprehension skills.
Genuinely hope that everything is going well in your life. Find real sources of joy, no need to give/take offence at things on the internet :)
george_costanza_7827@reddit
I think you should take your own advice on using ChatGPT and avoiding personal attacks. After all, you've not contributed anything meaningful to the discussion. Instead, you just derided a single example and failed to provide any elaboration,
Have a nice day, hope everything in your life is going well, so you have real sources of joy instead of tearing down strangers/taking offense at things on the internet :)
ContactExtension1069@reddit
Enjoy your VBA script buddy. All the best.
george_costanza_7827@reddit
You've gotten it the wrong way around. Sausage making is exactly what the 'bad with ambiguity people want'. Clear instructions and direction. Meat in, sausage out.
However, as you stated, software development isn't like this. You need to be comfortable with a certain level of decision making.
ContactExtension1069@reddit
More into software, you seem to be good at making and taking sausage.
Neverland__@reddit
If you think AI can replace mid level devs, then maybe you are a junior dev lol the idea is brain dead
whb90@reddit
I am a fucking idiot and no-skill person and I correct AI in the code they provide me frequently enough (but it's probably because my prompts are so bad it doesn't know any better)
MCFRESH01@reddit
No ai code is bad. It frequently gives me broken code, I tell it what is wrong, and it gives me the same broken code saying it corrected it
farox@reddit
It really depends which one you use. O1 Pro is an absolute beast. Also keep in mind: this is the worst it's ever going to be.
Alkyen@reddit
AI currently is decent in fresh projects with popular technologies and easy to follow guidelines. This is why you see all these posts "I understand nothing about programming and made this game with AI". That's fine.
Where it breaks down is when things get more complicated and there isn't an engineer in the room to know better. I use AI for simple stuff and auto complete while coding. But it's not replacing any engineers anytime soon.
sharpcoder29@reddit
It's not the prompts
guns_of_summer@reddit
Amazing that more people don't think that maybe Zuck might've been saying that because Meta is a publicly traded company and saying things like that might be good for stock value?
Neverland__@reddit
You reckon? Nothing to do with justifying the $100bn investing? It’s lip service. Any dev whose used AI knows the limitations
MCFRESH01@reddit
How did meta verse work out for Zuck? I wouldn’t worry about what he says too much
donniedarko5555@reddit
You've likely been doing Sr. Engineer work for a while but don't have the title.
But generally the guideline I've been told is to reach Senior before 10 years of experience to stay on track for your career. So in your position I'd take this as a good time to start applying to get the title you are looking for
muffa@reddit
By the time a LLM can replace a mid-level engineer you will be either staff or retired. Don't worry 🙂
sage-longhorn@reddit
If LLMs are replacing mid-level engineers this year then mid-level engineers must be those sweat shop level freelance teams that will build you a ridiculously broken app for $100
VegetableWar3761@reddit
Zuck also said the fucking Metaverse would be a thing. That turned out great.
rayfrankenstein@reddit
Somehow he didn’t get fired as an under-performer.
RegrettableBiscuit@reddit
Yeah, I know one guy who could definitely be replaced by an LLM.
ategnatos@reddit
Didn't he just say that AI will be able to code like a mid-level engineer? That doesn't mean AI replaces mid-level engineers. Engineers do other things.
It is true that it's harder when you're not a senior these days due to WFH/hybrid, people being on edge with layoffs, etc.
moosethemucha@reddit
Like when he thought that vr and the meta verse were going to take over the world….
NotACockroach@reddit
That's was an ad, Zuckerberg is selling an AI product and is advertising it on TV. There's no reason to take it seriously.
lookmeat@reddit
Don't focus on the title focus on the skills.
See what they are asking you, and think of examples when you've done it through your career. Even if it feels like a stretch, even if it wasn't just you, still where you did the things they talk about.
And then push that. Let them reject you. Saying that you aren't on that level and can't do it isn't protecting you from rejection, it's just you rejecting yourself without even giving yourself a chance.
AuthenticLiving7@reddit
Have you been at the same job all 8 years?
It's very common for people to get a higher title when switching jobs. I wouldn't stress about your current title holding you back.
And yeah titles don't translate across every job. Some believe you you need a certain number of years experience. My current manager thinks you need 10 years to be considered a senior. My last job gave people with only 3 years experience the senior title.
ButtSupreme@reddit
I knew someone with 3 YOE with a senior title, he didn’t jump jobs but did get senior title within 3 years working with them.
I never had title specific jobs as well, never got a chance to get a junior, mid or senior and I’m already at my 9th year as a developer but yeah compensation wise, I got increased 10-20% per job.
TheManWithNoDrive@reddit
I know someone who just posted up on LinkedIn ‘Senior software engineer’ promotion. He has two years experience…
Titles are so freaking wild sometimes.
kingofthesqueal@reddit
Current job has a weird way of handling Senior. You need 7 YOE, but a masters brings that down to 2 YOE.
Basically, you could have 4 YOE, hire an intern that did some sort of 5 Year accelerated Masters with their BS degree and within 2 years they’ll make Senior while, you, their previous mentor is still a Mid-Level.
nonasiandoctor@reddit
Weird. My company counts a master's as two years experience. Counting for 5 is wild.
ThrawOwayAccount@reddit
But you have at least 10 YOE.
Ashken@reddit
This is me. On on year 9 and I’m a software engineer level 2, but at my last job I got hired to a senior position with 6 yoe.
Only thing I measure myself with is yoe and salary.
Tatoutis@reddit
I agree. One company I interviewed with wanted to give a distinguished engineer title. There's nothing distinguished about me.
dinomansion@reddit
valid worries but it really doesn't matter. A lot of SWE at faang or startup tech companies will just have 'Software Engineer' as title. Not to mention, a lot of banks will have 'senior engineer' title given to anyone with 2-4 years of experience.
Zestyclose_Quit7396@reddit
I've was senior at an F500 last year and had to move quickly for health reasons.
Right now, after five months of searching, I'm stocking a fucking grocery store.
This market is fucked. Don't leave your job. Don't hint you might leave your job.
jek39@reddit
Start your own company and call yourself CTO. Job titles are meaningless
whb90@reddit
I did exactly that! Nobody understood why a doggie daycare needed a CTO though...
D4rkr4in@reddit
“Created custom CRM with on prem k8s cluster”
Appropriate-Dream388@reddit
Not k9s cluster?
D4rkr4in@reddit
Damn, I wish I thought of this
hitanthrope@reddit
"I think I will make myself......vice president....no wait..... *junior* vice president" - Homer Simpson
gsmart007@reddit
The role and responsibilities you are doing are far more important than titles.
I was team leader in just 7 years, but I had to become senior engineer in my next companies. I learned a lot in that stint. Now, I am again senior engineering manager.
Don't worry about titles.
evergreen-spacecat@reddit
The important thing is what you’ve done. Do you have 8 yoe or 1 yoe times 8? I’ve seen the later in some people - they have done minor bug correction in the same part of an already complete application for decades. Can’t even setup a new project from scratch if their lives depend on it. Those people will survive the job market ONLY on connections.
cleatusvandamme@reddit
Sadly, that has happened quite a bit in my career. Unfortunately, I’ve found myself in situations where I can’t try to make changes for the positive.
wallyflops@reddit
Nobody will care. Just interview for senior positions. If you're not getting call backs adjust CV, if you fail first tech stage get good.
canadian_webdev@reddit
I believe the correct term is, 'git gud'
vvf@reddit
git: ‘gud’ is not a git command.
Skittilybop@reddit
git gud —force
chapito_chupablo@reddit
git rebase gud
DMenace83@reddit
'git config alias.gud status'
sebaceous_sam@reddit
git gud -f
doinnuffin@reddit
Incorrect, the correct phrase is get more better.
wwww4all@reddit
It's AKSHUALLLY, Git Mo Gud.
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
lol
ButtSupreme@reddit
I knew someone with 3 YOE with a senior title, he didn’t jump jobs but did get senior title within 3 years working with them.
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
This is good to hear. Thanks.
esajero@reddit
16 yr exp. SDE 2 at the rainforest. I have no dreams of becoming an SDE 3. I'm happy to just survive the days to my next RSU vest. Lol.
BomberRURP@reddit
Titles are made up and meaningless. Call me a web monkey, I don’t care, just pay me well.
There’s no standard and anyone who’s telling you otherwise is full of shit.
Regarding job hunting, it’s about your ability to tell a good and engaging story about the work you’ve done. When I interview people I don’t even read their title, I read the descriptions of the work they’ve done and that’s what we chat about.
Seriously absolutely no standards here. Hell cheapass companies will give title raises with little increase in comp to keep people in…
data-artist@reddit
Nobody cares. Career progression is mostly being in the right place at the right time. Concentrate on that.
BarnabyJones2024@reddit
And having the right advocates.
My last place the arguments for promotion were made by someone who isn't even in your organization, but who the company matched you to. They didn't even know what I was doing on a day to day basis, but would meet for one on ones occasionally so they could push me on a big call with dozens of others.
Little did I know that despite being personable one on one, he was absolutely failing at representing any of my achievements, it was only when someone who got hired on after me got promoted and attending calls that he heard just how poorly my case was being handled.
Same logic probably applies to more rational organizations, if your manager just really sucks at advocating for you, or just doesn't feel inclined because of some personal reasons.
nonasiandoctor@reddit
I make more than my boss so he doesn't feel like pushing for my advancement.
eslof685@reddit
Wtf u been doing those 8 years?
Holden_Makock@reddit
Honestly doesnt matter. I went Principal at 7 yoe.
But that's because I had multiple high-impact projects and the right place at the right time.
Can I repeat that at any other company/team nope. Frankly joining today, I wouldn't be able to repeat that.
If anything, me jumping ship is going to show me jumping principal to senior (down level), if I get a principal elsewhere, that's most likely a pip candidate. I can't compete with people with 20 yoe.
I know my team, my code and my tech stack. I'm very protected here.
squiggydingles@reddit
Titles mean nothing. I’d literally take a job titled “braindead piece of shit” if it meant I got a 15% pay bump
LargeSale8354@reddit
Have you brought this up with your manager? If you want to become a senior and your current organisation can't/won't promote then you have tolook elsewhere. Also, senior tech positions require more soft skills and knowledge of how the business works. You can be the most technically skilled person on earth but without the behaviours a business needs from a senior position you are fighting a losing battle
vert1s@reddit
I tend to ignore current and previous titles entirely. It quickly becomes apparent which level and skill set each team member brings to the table.
One companies senior is not equivalent to another. Any company/person that thinks they’re senior after 4 years is deluding themselves. 6-10 at least.
This is how I would pitch it in interviews, and then talk about all the senior behaviours you exhibit.
Advanced_Lychee8630@reddit
I don't understand this post. Either you have the knowledge of a senior either you don't have it. Whsre is the problem exactly ?
zaitsman@reddit
As a hiring manager I wouldn’t give a hoot as to years in the title, but as an individual I would be devastated to not grow for this long, assuming the junior years are on top of 8. Put yourself out there to go to a different job with more senior work!!
PayLegitimate7167@reddit
Once I switched jobs current employer were considering counter offer with senior title but salary was still lower than my new job which was a mid level role
2fplus1@reddit
Not a problem. The first place I worked (for 15 years) was a large organization with established policies on job titles. One was that if a job title had the word "senior" in it, there was a hard requirement for 10 YOE in the role.
Droma-1701@reddit
No-one pre-judges on age until you're much older. The recruiting manager wants to find a good hire, not filter them out prematurely.
Start interviewing, succeed or fail. take the free feedback on where you're not up to scratch. This will hurt your ego and help your progress. Everyone thinks they are Senior material, it is a much more complex role to do well than people realize and most are not capable of taking the position except through "I've been here 20 years and every other viable options has left the team" (we've all seen them...). If nothing else, most have burnt out on the tech before they've gotten good enough. Junior is about being able to work on your own, Mid is about depth of knowledge in a language stack, Senior is about breadth of knowledge. It's a crossroads role where you skill up and decide which path you follow next: Part expensive dev, part architect, part mentor, part coach, part (technical) leadership, part change management, part innovation specialist. While the interviews will obviously revolve around the first area and heavily probe your ability in the second, value-add experience in the other areas will push you over the line: the role ceases to be about your own personal excellence and shifts to being about how you multiply the skills of those around you - good design, thinking ahead to what skills your team needs for upcoming work and engaging with team leads to prepare and give that training or finding a trainer for bigger areas, providing technical vision for deliveries, identifying problem areas and helping leadership find ways through, providing realistic tech-push innovation and working with product management to filter and bring them to market with managed risk. No idea how far along you are in your journey, I'm assuming expertise in your stack of choice, so I'd point you at the following books, the authors all have lots of YouTube material available:
Head First Design Patterns Refactoring to Design Patterns Domain Driven Design Inspired Wardley Maps Leadership Plain and Simple The Big Book of Coaching Models
As you move through that list, start doing exercises against you current codebase, build networks with leadership and product to discuss those exercises and your findings. Even if you're not staying, build the soft skills in networking. I'd get yourself a scrum master cert as well, a really solid investment of ~£600 to strengthen your CV even if you don't intend (at the moment) to be a SM or team lead (and if you do, don't feel there's a single law that says you MUST be a Senior first...). GLHF LLAP 🖖
swoleherb@reddit
Projects delivered > years
Ok-Obligation-7998@reddit
Reality, most people will never hit senior.
ElevatedAngling@reddit
As a hiring manager idc what your last title was, I care about skill set, projects delivered and attitude. I would do your best to try and offer/ask to lead efforts etc to show you can be an autonomous problem solver and bring senior level value. If you are doing that you’re golden if not it’s an opportunity to grow. Also talk with your manager about moving up. Ask what it takes what the expectations of for a senior at your company and what opportunities do you have to display you are of that level or to grow you to that level.
ElevatedAngling@reddit
Tbh 8 years and still mid level indicates a lack of skill OR what I’d guess is a lack of career development from your leader
originalchronoguy@reddit
You can have someone for 8 years; throwing them opportunities all the time. And they simply can't deliver. Yet, they are still valuable in doing the grunt work. You just can't depend on them to do anything more complex. Thus, they stagnate. I can only give a guy so many tries and chances.
tcpWalker@reddit
You haven't made it to a senior _position_. The question is whether you have senior competency. Just don't disclose your level during interview loops. And also start interviewing.
kristianwindsor@reddit
Are you able to accomplish tasks without any handholding?
A title that says you’re mid-level is different than having a mid-level skill set
NowImAllSet@reddit
This is mid-level
WhiteCaptain@reddit
What is senior?
NowImAllSet@reddit
Most define it as leadership. Tech lead, large project ownership, directly responsible for system(s), mentoring and onboarding, interviewing, etc.
In simple terms of "tasks," I'd put it like this:
Acceptable_Durian868@reddit
I've been back and forth between staff and principal for a few years now in different companies and none of the roles involved delegation unless I was specifically in a team lead position, which I generally avoid. At staff and principal level I'm generally leading cross-team initiatives, like designing and implementing standardised observability tooling. I'll identify standard patterns and principles, work on educating leads and teams on how to adapt those patterns to their specific circumstances, and often there's a political element in which I'm advocating for my initiatives to actually be picked up by teams.
NowImAllSet@reddit
That's delegation ;)
Acceptable_Durian868@reddit
I disagree, re: delegation, though not the second bit. Delegation implies explicit authority, which I generally don't have. I don't have the authority to tell other teams what to do or how they should do it. My job is to show them a better way and convince them to work with their PMs and management to prioritise time for it. Of course, having a staff or principal title gives implied authority, and they're far more likely to take me seriously than they would a senior.
NowImAllSet@reddit
Yeah, I agree. I think my sentiment was missed by using the word "delegate," perhaps incorrectly. My point was less authoritative, and more scope of influence. Senior+ engineers are working at team+ level, whereas juniors and mid-level engineers are mostly in their own bubble and focusing on the immediate work on their own plate.
JaySocials671@reddit
My grey beard senior definitely had no leadership skills exhibited and was a rest and vester. 30+yoe. Is he a senior engineer by your definition?
NowImAllSet@reddit
Maybe a true "senior," but not a senior-level engineer. Perhaps it sounds brutal to say that, but imo titles are meant to describe roles, not years of experience.
JaySocials671@reddit
He could finish a ticket 10x faster than any other senior. So he’s still not a senior level engineer?
NowImAllSet@reddit
IMO that's a solid individual contributor, and someone you should pay handsomely to keep on your team. But they're still a silo of knowledge, and just doing their own thing. To me, years of experience is a valuable metric only if they're applying that experience in an effective way.
A grizzled 30+ YOE greybeard would be nominally be valuable because they've seen some shit. They know how things break, and why. They know where the common pitfalls are, they know how to build things right, they know how to strike the balance between doing it fast and doing it well.
I want that experience - but I want it applied to system designs, to mentoring juniors, to guiding teams away from the bad stuff and towards the good. Someone with 30+ YOE who sits in a corner and shuffles through Jira tickets is not applying their expertise effectively. They're not helping anyone grow, they're not sharing any knowledge they might have. They're collecting a paycheck and squashing bugs. That's great, but it's not what I'm looking for when I put out a job listing for a "senior engineer." If I just wanted someone to come in and squash a bunch of bugs, I'd look elsewhere.
JaySocials671@reddit
Thank you for sharing. Unfortunately i did have the experience of working with a person like this. Fortunately he taught me a lesson that changed my entire perspective of this industry. I respected him a lot for it.
On one hand, he would let people stumble and fall and not give any guidance. On the other hand, he didn’t let ANYONE walk over him.
It looks like you’re looking for a very ambitious engineer/worker. And i think most people are. But I’ve been in a place where an ambitious person was dismissed because it didn’t fall in line with the culture of management.
sharpcoder29@reddit
Seniors aren't really leaders. That's lead, staff, princple, architect. Senior is just an 8 year experienced dev who can work without handholding
JaySocials671@reddit
Ah a disagreeing opinion. I still would like to hear /u/NowImAllSet opinion
sharpcoder29@reddit
Every company is different, but this is my 20 YOE with companies big and small.
JaySocials671@reddit
Thanks for sharing. Wya /u/NowImAllSet
PreparationAdvanced9@reddit
Ownership of systems
throwawayacc201711@reddit
You’re thinking beyond tasks but epic to initiative level
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
I've been able to do so for most of my career. I think it has more to do with my confidence when I asked my manager on my interview performance or presentation rather than the work associated with accomplishing tasks or driving projects forward.
Lilacsoftlips@reddit
If you truly want to grow, you need to be more direct with your manager. “I want to make the next step in my career to senior, what do I need to show to prove I’m ready, and can you help me make a plan to demonstrate to the business that I am already performing at a senior level”
G3netic@reddit
14 yoe here. Was at my last company for 5 years. For the last 2.5 years during every performance review they said I was on the cusp of getting to senior, I’m next in line for senior, trying to get approval to promote you to senior… Never made senior. Left that job and got hired as a lead engineer. I feel like there was some office politics involved with me not getting promoted at my last job, but it could have just been them telling me that so I wouldn’t leave. It was a huge company. We had some seniors that really deserved it, but there was also a huge percentage of them that weren’t very strong at all.
My brother got his MS in DS but did his undergrad in bio chem. Definitely knows his way around ML and LLM’s but texts me with rudimentary, CS 101 level questions about once a week. He got hired as a principal engineer about 6 months ago.
I wouldn’t put too much weight into titles. There’s obviously monetary value in it both in current compensation and future job prospects, but I’ve worked at 4 companies now and at every one someone’s title often doesn’t mean shit.
UsernameMustBe1and10@reddit
11 yoe here.
I am not in a senior role at my current company, but compared to my previous one where i was a senior vs. now, but almost 3 times the salary, im not complaining.
Now, however, i am collecting as many recommendations from my leads to get me promoted. The reason is, of course, more money.
justUseAnSvm@reddit
I've never had a "senior" engineer position where team leadership wasn't a major component of the job.
Lots of companies have "senior" engineers that are just guys crushing tickets, so there's substantial difference in what the title means between companies.
OuternetInterpreter@reddit
8 yoe here. Starting a senior role in a week. Feel both ready and woefully unprepared, like I’ve already been doing it, but without the title and (some) of the responsibilities. I’m sure if you look around and try for it, you can find the opportunity if you want it.
sharpcoder29@reddit
As long as you've kept your skills up to date (YouTube, pluralsite, your leads, etc) then you'll be fine.
pheonixblade9@reddit
I was L4 (swe3, below senior) at Google a little over a year ago. I got senior at Meta and now I'm interviewing for exclusively staff/principal level. Huh, turns out I had the choos, and Google's fucked up perf system was the problem, after all! Crazy how that works.
mavewrick@reddit
In my opinion:
1. You should be operating at the level of a Senior already when you ask for that promo. You will likely not get a promotion where management hopes that once they promote you, you will be able to operate at that level.
You need to exhibit two things:
Solving design problems and showing the skills/ability to collaborate.
Mid -> Senior is mostly decided at your Manager + Manager's peers and your Skip's level. So, make sure you are on good terms with them
Financial_Anything43@reddit
1 and 2 >>>
Lilacsoftlips@reddit
It’s more than just collaborate, juniors should be able to collaborate. you need to be able to lead projects and support juniors.
mavewrick@reddit
I should probably explain what I meant by Collaboration. Sure, at every level you need to showcase collaboration. At Junior levels the expectations is that you can collaborate within your team, at mid you should be able to collaborate within sister teams, at Senior we’re probably talking org level / maybe even sister org level collaboration. Principals and onwards, the scope just goes even wider…
EkoChamberKryptonite@reddit
3 is why promotions are almost always political. One shouldn't have to contribute to empires to move ahead. All that brings is skewed assessment where only folks managers like get promoted. Your promotion shouldn't depend solely on your manager and skip-level's amount of like towards you. This is why the promotion process at quite a few orgs are broken. There should be measurable, actionable, nigh objective metrics that assess progress and should be the primary focus for a promotion.
Sensitive-Ear-3896@reddit
Sr means different things in different companies and can be political too
k_dubious@reddit
I was in the exact same position as you when I hit 8yoe. At 9 years I got promoted to Senior SWE, and at 10 years I landed a different Senior SWE job making $480k/year.
It's very easy to coast in this field but very hard to hit an actual dead-end in your career. The important thing is to take ownership of your own professional development, set achievable goals for the things you actually care about, and make constant progress towards them.
GordonFremen@reddit
Have you talked to your boss about this? I've gotten my last two titles by just asking for them.
Unless your boss sucks, they should help you reach your professional goals.
bentley_adams@reddit
I’m in the same boat as you regarding mid/senior. On paper, I’m a mid level dev but I am essentially acting as a “FE team lead” for my team (my managers words, not mine). I probably will never be a senior at this company because I don’t do office politics. My only choice is to interview for a senior position elsewhere.
InfiniteJackfruit5@reddit
If you don’t make principal by 8 years then the ceos of faangs take time beating you.
hidazfx@reddit
I'm a level one at my current job, but I've been developing professionally for 4 years now. Just works like that some times.
Jesinski@reddit
The real “senior title” comes from your impact on the team/project/company.
I have a colleague which does not have the senior title, but he makes a huge impact on decisions, with deliveries, reviews, etc. For me he’s a senior.
So ask yourself, how much leverage you have? How much you influence the decisions? How much people ask you for advice/help?
Depending on the answers for those kind of questions you can be sure what you are. Titles are a way to determine compensation, but not always tells the whole story.
carminemangione@reddit
Titles are arbitrary. Ask yourself. Do you go into work to create new stuff every day? Are you finding JR developers to mentor? Are you doing everything in your power to create a thriving inventive space for everyone.
If not, I am sorry to say, you will be mid-level forever. Note: I mean this as encouragement not as a criticism.
_____c4@reddit
Live your life. Titles are meaning less between companies
godwink2@reddit
I also have senior in my title but definitely know that its a mislabel. Definitely midlevel. Just keep grinding and being a leader for your team
barndawe@reddit
Don't worry about titles. I went from developer to tech lead to sole backend developer to engineer to senior developer to senior backend engineer to team lead/senior backend engineer. At no point have my skills gone backwards when my title changed. If you have the skills then the title doesn't mean much and any decent place should accept you based on your interview performance more than past titles
Mysterious_Income@reddit
Leave titles off the resume. You are a "Software Engineer at Company X". Problem solved.
I had the opposite problem at my last company. I was promoted to "Staff Engineer" but it was title inflation - there was no way I would qualify as staff level at any other company. So I just didn't put staff on my resume when I was applying to my next job.
Spinach-Eater@reddit
Titles can vary greatly from company to company.
Senior is a terminal position at most places, in that its normal for people to retire only having reached this stage and not considered an under-performer if they didn't go into management or staff/principal.
Thus not hitting senior till 8 - 12 years does not strike me as odd.
I'm more concerned with when a dev with only 3 years experience has a senior title on their resume.
Nondv@reddit
Either way the most important thing is how good you are.
i intentionally temoved all "senior" and "lead" from my cv and replaced it with software engineer.
but i agree, in theory it may be misinterpreted by recruiters. Recently I decided to just list companies in my cv instead with no title
Trick-Interaction396@reddit
Being mid level at 8 years old is pretty impressive
CartographerUpper193@reddit
You 100% need to get that title at your current job unless your reputation or some weird dynamic with your team or manager is holding you back. IMO it is far easier to get promoted where you’ve already put in the work than trying to get it outside.
That said, interviewing for senior roles will really open your eyes to what the expectations are from a senior engineer and you will see that the exercise will show you things you can improve right away at your current job even if you don’t get a new gig.
Strange_Space_7458@reddit
What is it that you think senior level means? In my company I had a very competent coder who wasn't given a Sr. title until around year 10 with us and probably 15 in career. It doesn't mean a whole lot actually. Are you equating the title with a large pay raise?
Helpful_Scheme_2224@reddit
You could downgrade your first mid-level position to junior in your CV to hide the fact that you have been mid-level longer than usual.
eclipse0990@reddit
Just give interviews, clear them and go to next company at next level. If they ask during the interviews about why you want to switch, tell them that you want to grow in your career and your current company isn’t helping you with that growth
kevinkaburu@reddit
You're 9 years into the DoD Industrial complex, and your senior is like.... Starting Engineer at other places.
Level up your skills to senior, ditch the black hole, and move on.taí stop putting up with stagnation.
Vaizgantas888@reddit
That's why I prefer companies that don't have seniority in the job title. The only thing that matters is the compensation.
Magikarpical@reddit
it's fine. i had 9 yoe before i got my first senior role (which i got through interviewing, not a promo). during that round of interviewing and the next, i got offers as low as mid and as high as staff. titles are made up, responsibility and comp is all that matters
mynameismati@reddit
How is it that you have not? What's the part that has stopped your of applying to senior positions? Has it been during the interview process? Generally, where they don't appreciate you or your knowledge is where you should not be.
NowImAllSet@reddit
You should get promoted internally, or at least find leadership opportunities. That'll be a more direct approach, and also give you better feedback on what exactly your gaps are. Trying to find an up-level externally might be hard in this market, not to mention you won't get any feedback except the occasional "we went with someone else."