Nearing 8 yoe and still mid level. What are the consequences?
Posted by abibabicabi@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 62 comments
I still have not made it to senior level and am very concerned this will affect my career. Especially given this market.
I worry that I am judged as less competent amongst my peers and will be passed over for other candidates if I try finding another job. Even if I can pass the technical and system design portions.
Ideally I would like to search for senior positions this year. What has your experience been interviewing candidates that don't hit senior with so many years of experience?
kristianwindsor@reddit
Are you able to accomplish tasks without any handholding?
A title that says you’re mid-level is different than having a mid-level skill set
NowImAllSet@reddit
This is mid-level
WhiteCaptain@reddit
What is senior?
NowImAllSet@reddit
Most define it as leadership. Tech lead, large project ownership, directly responsible for system(s), mentoring and onboarding, interviewing, etc.
In simple terms of "tasks," I'd put it like this:
Acceptable_Durian868@reddit
I've been back and forth between staff and principal for a few years now in different companies and none of the roles involved delegation unless I was specifically in a team lead position, which I generally avoid. At staff and principal level I'm generally leading cross-team initiatives, like designing and implementing standardised observability tooling. I'll identify standard patterns and principles, work on educating leads and teams on how to adapt those patterns to their specific circumstances, and often there's a political element in which I'm advocating for my initiatives to actually be picked up by teams.
PreparationAdvanced9@reddit
Ownership of systems
throwawayacc201711@reddit
You’re thinking beyond tasks but epic to initiative level
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
I've been able to do so for most of my career. I think it has more to do with my confidence when I asked my manager on my interview performance or presentation rather than the work associated with accomplishing tasks or driving projects forward.
Lilacsoftlips@reddit
If you truly want to grow, you need to be more direct with your manager. “I want to make the next step in my career to senior, what do I need to show to prove I’m ready, and can you help me make a plan to demonstrate to the business that I am already performing at a senior level”
ElevatedAngling@reddit
As a hiring manager idc what your last title was, I care about skill set, projects delivered and attitude. I would do your best to try and offer/ask to lead efforts etc to show you can be an autonomous problem solver and bring senior level value. If you are doing that you’re golden if not it’s an opportunity to grow. Also talk with your manager about moving up. Ask what it takes what the expectations of for a senior at your company and what opportunities do you have to display you are of that level or to grow you to that level.
ElevatedAngling@reddit
Tbh 8 years and still mid level indicates a lack of skill OR what I’d guess is a lack of career development from your leader
F1B3R0PT1C@reddit
Titles are dumb. My last job I was a senior because they considered 4 YOE a senior. Now I have 6 YOE at my current job and I’m a mid-level because here you need 7 YOE to be senior. I don’t think it matters that much.
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
I hope so and have the same sentiment. I get worried with comments from Zuck about mid level engineers that senior leaders then parrot at conferences. Also concepts like up or out worry me.
NotACockroach@reddit
That's was an ad, Zuckerberg is selling an AI product and is advertising it on TV. There's no reason to take it seriously.
inspired2apathy@reddit
It's not about titles it's about ability to deal with ambiguity. I have seniors on my team who are good devs but need clear reqs and a clear direction. That's not gonna fly. I also have mid-level devs who are worse engineers but better at pushing through uncertainty.
lookmeat@reddit
Don't focus on the title focus on the skills.
See what they are asking you, and think of examples when you've done it through your career. Even if it feels like a stretch, even if it wasn't just you, still where you did the things they talk about.
And then push that. Let them reject you. Saying that you aren't on that level and can't do it isn't protecting you from rejection, it's just you rejecting yourself without even giving yourself a chance.
VegetableWar3761@reddit
Zuck also said the fucking Metaverse would be a thing. That turned out great.
Neverland__@reddit
If you think AI can replace mid level devs, then maybe you are a junior dev lol the idea is brain dead
guns_of_summer@reddit
Amazing that more people don't think that maybe Zuck might've been saying that because Meta is a publicly traded company and saying things like that might be good for stock value?
whb90@reddit
I am a fucking idiot and no-skill person and I correct AI in the code they provide me frequently enough (but it's probably because my prompts are so bad it doesn't know any better)
AuthenticLiving7@reddit
Have you been at the same job all 8 years?
It's very common for people to get a higher title when switching jobs. I wouldn't stress about your current title holding you back.
And yeah titles don't translate across every job. Some believe you you need a certain number of years experience. My current manager thinks you need 10 years to be considered a senior. My last job gave people with only 3 years experience the senior title.
donniedarko5555@reddit
You've likely been doing Sr. Engineer work for a while but don't have the title.
But generally the guideline I've been told is to reach Senior before 10 years of experience to stay on track for your career. So in your position I'd take this as a good time to start applying to get the title you are looking for
Tatoutis@reddit
I agree. One company I interviewed with wanted to give a distinguished engineer title. There's nothing distinguished about me.
Sensitive-Ear-3896@reddit
Sr means different things in different companies and can be political too
wallyflops@reddit
Nobody will care. Just interview for senior positions. If you're not getting call backs adjust CV, if you fail first tech stage get good.
canadian_webdev@reddit
I believe the correct term is, 'git gud'
vvf@reddit
git: ‘gud’ is not a git command.
doinnuffin@reddit
Incorrect, the correct phrase is get more better.
wwww4all@reddit
It's AKSHUALLLY, Git Mo Gud.
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
lol
abibabicabi@reddit (OP)
This is good to hear. Thanks.
k_dubious@reddit
I was in the exact same position as you when I hit 8yoe. At 9 years I got promoted to Senior SWE, and at 10 years I landed a different Senior SWE job making $480k/year.
It's very easy to coast in this field but very hard to hit an actual dead-end in your career. The important thing is to take ownership of your own professional development, set achievable goals for the things you actually care about, and make constant progress towards them.
GordonFremen@reddit
Have you talked to your boss about this? I've gotten my last two titles by just asking for them.
Unless your boss sucks, they should help you reach your professional goals.
bentley_adams@reddit
I’m in the same boat as you regarding mid/senior. On paper, I’m a mid level dev but I am essentially acting as a “FE team lead” for my team (my managers words, not mine). I probably will never be a senior at this company because I don’t do office politics. My only choice is to interview for a senior position elsewhere.
InfiniteJackfruit5@reddit
If you don’t make principal by 8 years then the ceos of faangs take time beating you.
hidazfx@reddit
I'm a level one at my current job, but I've been developing professionally for 4 years now. Just works like that some times.
Jesinski@reddit
The real “senior title” comes from your impact on the team/project/company.
I have a colleague which does not have the senior title, but he makes a huge impact on decisions, with deliveries, reviews, etc. For me he’s a senior.
So ask yourself, how much leverage you have? How much you influence the decisions? How much people ask you for advice/help?
Depending on the answers for those kind of questions you can be sure what you are. Titles are a way to determine compensation, but not always tells the whole story.
carminemangione@reddit
Titles are arbitrary. Ask yourself. Do you go into work to create new stuff every day? Are you finding JR developers to mentor? Are you doing everything in your power to create a thriving inventive space for everyone.
If not, I am sorry to say, you will be mid-level forever. Note: I mean this as encouragement not as a criticism.
_____c4@reddit
Live your life. Titles are meaning less between companies
godwink2@reddit
I also have senior in my title but definitely know that its a mislabel. Definitely midlevel. Just keep grinding and being a leader for your team
jek39@reddit
Start your own company and call yourself CTO. Job titles are meaningless
hitanthrope@reddit
"I think I will make myself......vice president....no wait..... *junior* vice president" - Homer Simpson
whb90@reddit
I did exactly that! Nobody understood why a doggie daycare needed a CTO though...
OuternetInterpreter@reddit
8 yoe here. Starting a senior role in a week. Feel both ready and woefully unprepared, like I’ve already been doing it, but without the title and (some) of the responsibilities. I’m sure if you look around and try for it, you can find the opportunity if you want it.
barndawe@reddit
Don't worry about titles. I went from developer to tech lead to sole backend developer to engineer to senior developer to senior backend engineer to team lead/senior backend engineer. At no point have my skills gone backwards when my title changed. If you have the skills then the title doesn't mean much and any decent place should accept you based on your interview performance more than past titles
Mysterious_Income@reddit
Leave titles off the resume. You are a "Software Engineer at Company X". Problem solved.
I had the opposite problem at my last company. I was promoted to "Staff Engineer" but it was title inflation - there was no way I would qualify as staff level at any other company. So I just didn't put staff on my resume when I was applying to my next job.
Spinach-Eater@reddit
Titles can vary greatly from company to company.
Senior is a terminal position at most places, in that its normal for people to retire only having reached this stage and not considered an under-performer if they didn't go into management or staff/principal.
Thus not hitting senior till 8 - 12 years does not strike me as odd.
I'm more concerned with when a dev with only 3 years experience has a senior title on their resume.
Nondv@reddit
Either way the most important thing is how good you are.
i intentionally temoved all "senior" and "lead" from my cv and replaced it with software engineer.
but i agree, in theory it may be misinterpreted by recruiters. Recently I decided to just list companies in my cv instead with no title
Trick-Interaction396@reddit
Being mid level at 8 years old is pretty impressive
CartographerUpper193@reddit
You 100% need to get that title at your current job unless your reputation or some weird dynamic with your team or manager is holding you back. IMO it is far easier to get promoted where you’ve already put in the work than trying to get it outside.
That said, interviewing for senior roles will really open your eyes to what the expectations are from a senior engineer and you will see that the exercise will show you things you can improve right away at your current job even if you don’t get a new gig.
Strange_Space_7458@reddit
What is it that you think senior level means? In my company I had a very competent coder who wasn't given a Sr. title until around year 10 with us and probably 15 in career. It doesn't mean a whole lot actually. Are you equating the title with a large pay raise?
Helpful_Scheme_2224@reddit
You could downgrade your first mid-level position to junior in your CV to hide the fact that you have been mid-level longer than usual.
eclipse0990@reddit
Just give interviews, clear them and go to next company at next level. If they ask during the interviews about why you want to switch, tell them that you want to grow in your career and your current company isn’t helping you with that growth
mavewrick@reddit
In my opinion:
1. You should be operating at the level of a Senior already when you ask for that promo. You will likely not get a promotion where management hopes that once they promote you, you will be able to operate at that level.
You need to exhibit two things:
Solving design problems and showing the skills/ability to collaborate.
Mid -> Senior is mostly decided at your Manager + Manager's peers and your Skip's level. So, make sure you are on good terms with them
Financial_Anything43@reddit
1 and 2 >>>
Lilacsoftlips@reddit
It’s more than just collaborate, juniors should be able to collaborate. you need to be able to lead projects and support juniors.
kevinkaburu@reddit
You're 9 years into the DoD Industrial complex, and your senior is like.... Starting Engineer at other places.
Level up your skills to senior, ditch the black hole, and move on.taí stop putting up with stagnation.
data-artist@reddit
Nobody cares. Career progression is mostly being in the right place at the right time. Concentrate on that.
Vaizgantas888@reddit
That's why I prefer companies that don't have seniority in the job title. The only thing that matters is the compensation.
Magikarpical@reddit
it's fine. i had 9 yoe before i got my first senior role (which i got through interviewing, not a promo). during that round of interviewing and the next, i got offers as low as mid and as high as staff. titles are made up, responsibility and comp is all that matters
mynameismati@reddit
How is it that you have not? What's the part that has stopped your of applying to senior positions? Has it been during the interview process? Generally, where they don't appreciate you or your knowledge is where you should not be.
NowImAllSet@reddit
You should get promoted internally, or at least find leadership opportunities. That'll be a more direct approach, and also give you better feedback on what exactly your gaps are. Trying to find an up-level externally might be hard in this market, not to mention you won't get any feedback except the occasional "we went with someone else."