Have battery changing stations for electric cars to make refueling them faster than refueling an ICE car.
Posted by Kaje26@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 60 comments
positiveinfluences@reddit
Current battery tech means the batteries for EVs are too big and too valuable to be reasonably swapped. The batteries for EVs are built into the frames of the vehicles. This idea has been explored.. it could work for ultralight shorthaul EVs like electric bicycles//motorcycles or tiny cars.
blackcatpandora@reddit
Some Evs do this already- NIO, a Chinese ev company uses this design
ChaseballBat@reddit
I thought this was the route semis were going to use. Stop at a truck stop and swap batteries to drive another 6 hours or whatever.
DazedWithCoffee@reddit
Ownership of batteries is too big of a logistical hurdle. Who owns the batteries? Are you liable if the battery you give someone goes up in flames? What do you do when a pack is at its end of life?
If we lived in a utopian society where everyone were fine with getting whatever was given to them, then sure. We don’t live in that world. This was never a workable idea in reality without taking away a lot of what made the premise worth exploring
spudmarsupial@reddit
Do it like we do propane tanks. Swap it at a depot. The depot sends it to a central location for testing and charging.
ChaseballBat@reddit
Is it any different than any particular part of a vehicle causing damage after it being repaired? If the regular car battery causes an electrical fire, is it the mechanics fault?
For life cycle of packs the health would be tracked and you'd get credit for healthier batteries replaced with less healthy batteries. Or it would be part of the massive semi-leasing program/companies that already exist.
Mental-Frosting-316@reddit
Typically, mechanics carry insurance to cover issues like that. Everyone using this system would need insurance for it.
ChaseballBat@reddit
...almost all businesses carry insurance...
DazedWithCoffee@reddit
Like i said, logistically it would be very difficult to manage compared to shifting away from road transport for long distance hauling
ChaseballBat@reddit
It is very difficult to manufacture and design an EV. It is very difficult to create a robust logistics map. It is very difficult to do a lot of shit we haven't done before. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be done at all.
Grumpy_Trucker_85@reddit
There are other pressing issues with electric semis that need to be addressed before they become viable at scale.
odoylerulezx@reddit
Best comment in here lol
moose_kayak@reddit
By the time you do this you might as well do trains IIRC
positiveinfluences@reddit
It depends on commercial viability. Semi trucks would be better suited than passenger vehicles
De1taTaco@reddit
I don't remember the brand off the top of my head but there is an electric motorcycle brand that has a removable, swappable battery. The idea is more for city parking where you might not have access to an outdoor charger overnight and could take the battery into your apartment, but they are HEAVY even at a small size like that
EatAllTheShiny@reddit
There are already a whole bunch of companies working on this, FYI. Not with lithium ion in its current iteration because it's way too expensive, but some sorts of iron based and other types of batteries.
ABA20011@reddit
That isn’t a crazy idea, that is the holy grail for EV charging. The solution is a combination of battery technology and charging technology. Companies all over the world are working on this.
If you know how to solve that, the world is listening.
Kaje26@reddit (OP)
Just have a detachable battery on the cars and then charge the battery at the station for when someone else comes. Done, I’d like a million dollars, Klaus Schwab.
gc3@reddit
Considering most of the weight of an EV is batteries and it would be a major investment to build machines to swap them out (you'd probably have to take the car apart), it would be cheaper to swap out the entire car at charging stations: the way couriers used to swap horses at inns.
Thereelgerg@reddit
Interesting. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
FredLives@reddit
Simple google search shows the weight of a model 3 battery weighs 1060lbs.
Thereelgerg@reddit
That is not evidence that most of the weight of an EV is batteries.
FredLives@reddit
Another simple search shows the same vehicle weighs 3500 to 4000 lbs.
TheFlashOfLightning@reddit
So the battery is only a third of the weight at best and not “most”?
Thereelgerg@reddit
Okay?
FredLives@reddit
You asked
Thereelgerg@reddit
Okay. Thanks, I guess. That doesn't answer the question I asked.
gc3@reddit
Sorry, I meant most of the weight that makes EV heavier than ICE cars is from the batteries.
AndromedaFire@reddit
And let’s say you have 100 customers in the morning. Not a lot. You need to have and store 100 batteries safely and securely, swap them all quickly after all if a charge only takes 20 mins no one will want to wait longer. All the batteries have to be on some kind of subscription service or you won’t be happy having your new battery swapped for an old battery in your expensive car.
After you done all that you now have to charge 100 batteries. Like charging 100 evs but all at once the power required would be far far higher than a bank of chargers where not everyone will charge to 100%
ExplodingPotato_@reddit
Good idea for small vehicles (scooters, bikes, micro cars), but too many compromises for road cars. - cost of swapping is obviously gonna be higher that charging at home - so you still wanna charge at home if possible - if you charge at home, you might get stuck with someone's abused battery - for trips, you have to rely on non existent infrastructure (while electricity is almost everywhere) - the swapping process is likely to damage the battery (rougher handling than just driving) - modern BEV cars incorporate battery into the frame, saving weight. For battery swaps, you're losing those savings
AFrostNova@reddit
Batteries are maintained and guaranteed by the servicor. It is effectively a rental/subscription service for the time each battery in your vehicle
Sweet_Speech_9054@reddit
If that was possible and practical it would already be implemented.
AFrostNova@reddit
It already has been implemented and is seeing success in fleet vehicles across China
Big_Green_Grill_Bro@reddit
Isn't this exactly what the Tesla supercharging stations were doing? You pull in and it automatically detaches the batteries from the bottom and replaces them with a fully charged set. I remember there being a video of a demo comparing the battery swap to a car refueling with gas. The swap was supposedly faster than putting gas in a tank. The stations were going to be in specific cities on major travel routes. Don't know what happened to that plan. Could have been just one of Elon's glitzy demos and never got implemented.
bigmarty3301@reddit
another point, not yet mentioned, people like to own stuff, there would be a lot of people (me included) who are not willing to have a battery as a subscription servise,
JuventAussie@reddit
I own the gas bottle that I use on my BBQ but swap it for a full one (that is checked for rust and leaks) when I run out of gas. This reduces the need for bottle filling infrastructure and the explosion risk of gas leaks.
I currently own a gas bottle just not the one I originally bought.
FredLives@reddit
A propane tank is a lot lighter than an EV battery, which is also usually built into the frame of the car.
JuventAussie@reddit
The comment I was responding to was about ownership versus a "subscription model".
My response was about the ownership model of the BBQ tank which is similar to the EV battery changing model not the practicality.
FredLives@reddit
And my comment was mentioning the impracticality of it.
JuventAussie@reddit
It is impractical ONLY because the changing infrastructure doesn't exist. If it existed EV could be designed to make it practical as the batteries don't need to be part of the vehicle structure.
A battery that dropped out the bottom of the EV onto a hydraulic jack into a pit and another battery lifted up comes to mind. I could design a prototype change station in a weekend.
FredLives@reddit
No offence but if it was that simple it would already exist. It doesn’t, cause it’s not so simple.
JuventAussie@reddit
No offence taken. This is crazyideas so your comment fits in with the theme just as it would in confidentlyincorect.
FredLives@reddit
Am I incorrect though? Battery swapping isn’t something new. I work with BEV mining equipment that swaps batteries. Though the batteries are crazy expensive, heavy, and they aren’t available at Autozone.
JuventAussie@reddit
https://hbr.org/2024/05/how-one-chinese-ev-company-made-battery-swapping-work
bigmarty3301@reddit
1 you still need masive charging infrastructure for destination charging. battery changing will never be profitable for that, since the required infrastructure is literary a wire and a smart meter.
2 there is a big diference between a traction battery and a gas bottle, gas bottle doesn´t hold less gas based on how much it´s been used. and inspecting a gas bottle visually is good enough. i take care of my battery, i charge to 80percent, and so on, will the battery i get be taken care of like that? you have no idea. i don´t care about 50 dolar bottle, i care about 7000 dolar battery.
TR3BPilot@reddit
Been saying this for years. Standardize the connections so you can pull the battery out and put in a new fresh one in 2 minutes.
But it would require cooperation between manufacturers, and that only happens when they have to conform to local laws.
FredLives@reddit
People can’t even change the battery, let alone disconnect or reconnect in an ICE car, which only has to simple connections.
Opening-Drawer-9904@reddit
Car batteries aren't like AA batteries you can just swap out. I looked it up and they seem to average over 400kg and be physically massive. They span the entire length and width of the car chassis.
I mean I guess it would be possible, but to build the infrastructure for car battery changes would be enormous if you're expecting it to be a common thing.
I get wanting swappable batteries to make the car last longer, but that would be a once every few years thing, not a "hm car is low on power. Let's pop over to the nearest charging station and get my car dismantled to replace the battery"
doctrsnoop@reddit
right now how are you going to 1. swap 1000 lb batteries and 2. design cars that have a quick change port for this.
mustang255@reddit
This already exists in China
cromulent-potato@reddit
yep
kenmlin@reddit
They actually do that with mopeds in some coin.
kenmlin@reddit
Do you know how much the battery weighs?
NeighborhoodDog@reddit
Why stop at the battery lets just all pay $800 a month and drive it back to the dealer lot when it dies and get in another one thats been cleaned and filled
niwuniwak@reddit
NIO did that and has a few demo stations in Europe I think. It would require standardisation for all manufacturers and a big modification on car architectures, but I think this could be the best move towards EV development
FoxtrotSierraTango@reddit
From when Elon was still mostly sane: https://youtu.be/H5V0vL3nnHY
owlforhire@reddit
That battery swap didn’t actually happen in the video, that technology didn’t exist and likely was never intended to from Tesla for cost reasons. It was a marketing stunt to boost stock price that also served as a dishonest way Tesla was awarded ZEV credits.
Pevio1024@reddit
This already exists, but isn't exactly cost-effective at the moment.
Thneed1@reddit
It exists in places like China.
It’s a non starter here. Charging technology has advanced to a point, where no one would want battery swap anyway, even if it was available.
I_might_be_weasel@reddit
Extensive electric car infrastructure in the United States? That is definitely a crazy idea.