What do you suggest? Do you think the U.S. Military should switch to a more reasonable cartridge like .44 Automag for it's service weapons? Maybe the globe should switch back to 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R like the good old days when rifles were deadly!
Or, better yet, The planet should go back to .30-06 and 8mm Mauser! That would teach those pencil pushers to forget about "cheap and readily available" and use something that actually kills FAST. Oh wait... they did that already for almost 3/4 of a century.
The truth is rifles are deadly no matter what, and the marginally more effective killing power of full power rifle cartridges was found to be unnecessary. This is stuff we all normally learn when we are 12 and watching Tales of the Gun or Mail Call.
I think your missing the whole context,it's great for (insert laugh) infantry,but if you don't understand that......then you've missed out on more than just ballistics.
The things that are missing here are your shots. It seems like you missed all your shots, that's why you want bigger, fatter boolets for higher chance of hitting the target.
Every military in the world, if they aren’t using 5.56, are using their own home-grown version of 5.56.
“Muh shoot to wound” was always stupid. People said the same thing about .30 Carbine; turns out if you don’t even hit the enemy the cartridge will be ineffective.
A round tumbling in flesh means a larger wound cavity. Also, since when has 5.56 been known for shallow penetration? Its pretty decently known for its excellent penetrative capabilities.
Hi! What makes this a swedish machine pistol? Invented by a swedish american or created in Sweden? I tried to search some info of the gun in swedish but could't find anything.
The article shown is incomplete and hard to read given the resolution. The gun in question is a PCC in .44 automag. Not the gun of the future in hindsight. But much of the article seems to be a veiled swipe against 5.56 and 7.62×39 intermediate cartridges. The author really doesn't seem to like them much.
He claims that in WW2 American GIs were "devastating enemies at 600 meters" with their M1 Garands (really?), but modern (circa 1970s) soldiers are poor shots, so might as well give them weak guns. He then claims the 5.56mm round has poor stopping power at short range, but the .44 automag will be better.
I'm also unclear on your commitment on resolution. It's an entire page shrunk down to a reddit picture size. I'm able to easily zoom in on my phone. Ate you using something else that prohibits this?
Most Authors of this Era were less than enthused with the 5.56. A sentiment that endures in certain areas to this day. Just scroll up an inch or 3 from this very conversation for an example of this in typical reddit slap fight form.
"...but certainly no man with any experience would choose to take either a 9mm Parabellum squirt gun or .223 into close action if he could have a .44 Auto Mag of equal handiness and ease of use."
Yeah, no man with any experience would choose to take a light recoiling SMG or an automatic, high penetration rifle into CQB when he could have a flashbang dispenser with capacity rivaling a revolver that probably kicks like a mule. Obviously
Gather round and let the father of modern combat pistol shooting ramble to you about his choice for the perfect police carbine/NATO service weapon circa 1980. He accidentally pitches it more as a PDW. In 44 Automag.
Oh and if you've never read Cooper before he does the royal we thing.
locolarue@reddit
The .223 is a poor stopper? Good thing I have 20 or 30 more of them ready.
MountainTitan@reddit
How the fuck is it a poor stopper? One shot of .223 enough to take you down. I don't know what studies they read back then.
Q-Ball7@reddit
The same ones that claimed the M16 was bad because muh Vietnam. It took until the early to mid 2010s for people to figure out how great the AR-15 was.
MountainTitan@reddit
Thanks God for the Internet. Now I can watch people getting shot by 5.56
Armageddonxredhorse@reddit
Always has been,the tumble factor means less fatal,deep damage because it's shallower penetration,especially in soft tissues(muscle+fat)
MountainTitan@reddit
No, not at all. One shot of .223 and you'd be down. I have watched too many police shooting and combat footage. .223 and 5.56mm are no jokes.
Armageddonxredhorse@reddit
They are a joke though,the problem isn't that they don't kill people,the problem is that it doesn't kill as fast.
5.56 isn't used because it's good,it's used because it's cheap and readily available .
Kalashalite@reddit (OP)
What do you suggest? Do you think the U.S. Military should switch to a more reasonable cartridge like .44 Automag for it's service weapons? Maybe the globe should switch back to 7.62 NATO and 7.62x54R like the good old days when rifles were deadly!
Or, better yet, The planet should go back to .30-06 and 8mm Mauser! That would teach those pencil pushers to forget about "cheap and readily available" and use something that actually kills FAST. Oh wait... they did that already for almost 3/4 of a century.
The truth is rifles are deadly no matter what, and the marginally more effective killing power of full power rifle cartridges was found to be unnecessary. This is stuff we all normally learn when we are 12 and watching Tales of the Gun or Mail Call.
Armageddonxredhorse@reddit
I think your missing the whole context,it's great for (insert laugh) infantry,but if you don't understand that......then you've missed out on more than just ballistics.
MountainTitan@reddit
The things that are missing here are your shots. It seems like you missed all your shots, that's why you want bigger, fatter boolets for higher chance of hitting the target.
Armageddonxredhorse@reddit
Critical thinking my friend,if you let others do your thinking,then you will never get anywhere good. You don't drift towards good.
Kalashalite@reddit (OP)
So what are you suggesting then? Should police and civilians use battle rifles and GPMGs instead of carbines? I'm just not following you.
Q-Ball7@reddit
Every military in the world, if they aren’t using 5.56, are using their own home-grown version of 5.56.
“Muh shoot to wound” was always stupid. People said the same thing about .30 Carbine; turns out if you don’t even hit the enemy the cartridge will be ineffective.
7isagoodletter@reddit
A round tumbling in flesh means a larger wound cavity. Also, since when has 5.56 been known for shallow penetration? Its pretty decently known for its excellent penetrative capabilities.
Aethelredditor@reddit
I know a couple of guys who still bemoan New Zealand's transition from 7.62 to 5.56 because the latter "merely wounds the opposition".
Kapten_Kamrat@reddit
Hi! What makes this a swedish machine pistol? Invented by a swedish american or created in Sweden? I tried to search some info of the gun in swedish but could't find anything.
Al_Jazzar@reddit
Is this an issue of Soldier of Fortune?
Cristoff13@reddit
The article shown is incomplete and hard to read given the resolution. The gun in question is a PCC in .44 automag. Not the gun of the future in hindsight. But much of the article seems to be a veiled swipe against 5.56 and 7.62×39 intermediate cartridges. The author really doesn't seem to like them much.
He claims that in WW2 American GIs were "devastating enemies at 600 meters" with their M1 Garands (really?), but modern (circa 1970s) soldiers are poor shots, so might as well give them weak guns. He then claims the 5.56mm round has poor stopping power at short range, but the .44 automag will be better.
Kalashalite@reddit (OP)
Why do you think it's incomplete?
I'm also unclear on your commitment on resolution. It's an entire page shrunk down to a reddit picture size. I'm able to easily zoom in on my phone. Ate you using something else that prohibits this?
Most Authors of this Era were less than enthused with the 5.56. A sentiment that endures in certain areas to this day. Just scroll up an inch or 3 from this very conversation for an example of this in typical reddit slap fight form.
Revolutionary-Wash88@reddit
On my phone the first and last pages are clear but the bulk of the article is a bit too fuzzy to read
7isagoodletter@reddit
"...but certainly no man with any experience would choose to take either a 9mm Parabellum squirt gun or .223 into close action if he could have a .44 Auto Mag of equal handiness and ease of use."
Yeah, no man with any experience would choose to take a light recoiling SMG or an automatic, high penetration rifle into CQB when he could have a flashbang dispenser with capacity rivaling a revolver that probably kicks like a mule. Obviously
Kalashalite@reddit (OP)
Gather round and let the father of modern combat pistol shooting ramble to you about his choice for the perfect police carbine/NATO service weapon circa 1980. He accidentally pitches it more as a PDW. In 44 Automag.
Oh and if you've never read Cooper before he does the royal we thing.
From the Oct 1980 SOF.
Particular_Farmer_57@reddit
I'm surprised George Kellgren had competition
KingofSkies@reddit
Neat! Looks like the barrel slides into the reciever like some French smgs for transport? I like it!
midgetzz@reddit
From what the caption says, it seems like one just had a shorter barrel installed
Kalashalite@reddit (OP)
I've always wondered what happened to these.
floralvas@reddit
Text is available here
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