Is it normal to indicate as you’re changing lanes?
Posted by Consistent_Bug2746@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 129 comments
I recently spent two months recently in the UK and noticed a few things about indicator usage. In the UK, I often saw people indicating and then immediately changing lanes, or starting to indicate just as they were already moving over the line.
Back home, we follow a "3-second rule," where you indicate first, giving others time to see your intention before you actually change lanes.
Is this just how things are done in the UK, or are drivers flouting the rules? Is there no specific rule for how long you need to indicate before changing lanes?
maksigm@reddit
You absolutely have to. It's one of the most crucial times you must indicate to other road users what you're doing.
Anyone who doesn't agree shouldn't be allowed to drive...
WDeranged@reddit
Some people indicate after moving to change lanes. It's mental.
ConsiderablyMediocre@reddit
I think people who do this aren't doing it on the regular. There's been a handful of times that I haven't been completely on the ball while changing lanes, and realised I forgot to indicate as I'm merging. In those cases, I panic a bit and hit the indicator at the end of the manoeuvre. I meant well, but probably look like a cunt to other drivers.
Consistent_Bug2746@reddit (OP)
Yea it’s like why did you indicate as you’re were halfway over I can see what you’re doing rather than oh the person I from is going to mi r over in a sec I won’t speed up or get a fright when that happens
Beardedbelly@reddit
I think certainly some people who indicate as they’re moving is because on the newer car with lane assist they realise the car is fighting them to change lane because they haven’t indicated to the car what they’re doing. Then they flick the indicated and the car lets them change lane without resistance.
Spirited_Praline637@reddit
It is the rule, but we have a lot of shit drivers. We’re taught ‘mirror - signal - manoeuvre’, with there meant to be a gap between each to carefully decide if it’s safe to go onto the next. That gap is often too short, non-existent, or people will mix up the order, cos they’re idiots.
BellamyRFC54@reddit
Mirror
Signal
Position
Speed
Look
ARobertNotABob@reddit
Ahem. Mirror-signal-mirror-manoeuvre.
Spirited_Praline637@reddit
Must’ve been refined after I had my lessons then (early 90s).
ARobertNotABob@reddit
I started driving in the 70s. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
wtbnewsoul@reddit
Manouvre, signal, then shoulder to send a finger towards the driver you cut off.
JoPOWz@reddit
Honestly it feels more like just manoeuvre a lot of the time. Sod the mirror, sod the signal, that’s everyone else’s problem.
pg3crypto@reddit
Weirdly, you're not far off the mark...in almost all cases where someone gets rear ended, it's the person behind that is automatically at fault from an insurance perspective.
JoeyJoeC@reddit
We don't say "cut me off" though. Never seen anyone give the middle finger also. Definitely very common on American dash cam videos though.
maelie@reddit
So obviously the comment above was a joke but where on earth in the UK are you that you've never seen the middle finger used? I've been driving for like 23 years and I've seen it plenty (and I'm not in London). Other rude hand gestures are available, as is clearly mouthing an expletive. Or you could do what my husband inexplicably did a few weeks ago and stick your tongue out at someone. But middle fingers are among the options for sure.
wtbnewsoul@reddit
Which is where all the idiot drivers learn said skill.
FatDad66@reddit
Carefully not to drop your phone when you do the shoulder thing.
Riddly_Diddly_DumDum@reddit
This is why I always make sure to duct tape my second phone to my head before I start driving. Means I can give them the double bird rather than waste one on my phone.
wtbnewsoul@reddit
I've got a firm hold of it, filming other drivers.
P1gInTheSky@reddit
In many countries the rule is different and that, I suppose, explain many people doing it the “wrong way” in the UK. Many places do “signal, mirror, manoeuvre “. Signalling being to communicate your intentions rather than what you are doing (as it’s in the uk)
maelie@reddit
It's not supposed to signal what you're doing in the UK either, it's supposed to signal intention. I don't know why people don't use it that way.
frogmission@reddit
I usually do mirror - signal - mirror - manoeuvre because I get anxious that one of those crazy fast lane drifters will have taken my spot in the 2 seconds I’ve put my eyes back on the road ahead and put the indicator on 😅
maelie@reddit
Same, along with the blind spot shoulder check. It's totally fair to expect lunatics on either side of you!
Phemus01@reddit
They’ve actually changed it now because of this to M.S.P.S.L (Mirror, signal, position, speed and look)
Spirited_Praline637@reddit
Well that’s a bit shit. Far too long.
WhatYouLeaveBehind@reddit
Na it's really easy to remember, just like 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3
thelajestic@reddit
MSPSL is for things like entering/exiting junctions and preparing to enter roundabouts etc, not for changing lanes.
Brandaman@reddit
I was taught MSM for lane changes, and MSPSL for turning
TheDisapprovingBrit@reddit
With proper obs, mirror/signal/manoeuvre can often lead to very little time between signalling and moving out. On the motorway, for example, I'll hold my speed and position until I've already identified a gap, and I won't indicate until the vehicle I want to slot in behind is already half way past me, to avoid confusing them.
That being said, I also make sure there's plenty of space to move out anyway. If it's busy and I need to move out, I'll put on a begging signal and wait for someone to flash me in.
ozz9955@reddit
People are scared that if they indicate, someone won't let them out. Just terrible driving all round really.
GotAnyNirnroot@reddit
It's just lazy drivers
HowHardCanItBeReally@reddit
This is not true. It's entitled drivers
NotEntirelyShure@reddit
It is true to an extent. So I can realise I’m in the wrong lane, I have a gap, I can indicate & quickly pull into that lane, I can hold up traffic until a gap appears, or I can go the wrong way. If I indicate and wait 3 seconds the other driver will close the gap.
glennok@reddit
It's unfortunately 70% of drivers. In London at least.
Mayhem-x@reddit
By and large yes, but in city's like London 3 seconds goes by and you've missed the opportunity 70% of the time.
pg3crypto@reddit
No it's not normal. That is crappy driving.
-myeyeshaveseenyou-@reddit
Lots of poor drivers here, I’m Irish and I find driving in the uk pretty scary. I had two insurance write offs in the space of two months here, one in December 2023 and another in February 2024, neither were my fault and the second crash was actually a police van that crashed into me. Was left with PTSD after the second crash
maelie@reddit
I agree with you that we have plenty of poor drivers. But I'd also say there are many countries where the driving is much worse, and the UK is far from the scariest!
So sorry about your accidents. Can totally understand developing PTSD from a nasty one.
MountainPeaking@reddit
Where is ‘back home’? I spent the past month in Germany and the indicating etiquette was almost identical to the UK. Lots of people indicate as they start to move lane etc.
People have usually checked their mirrors and then indicate - or some just suck at driving.
h00dman@reddit
We're also supposed to wait a few seconds after indicating before we change lanes, but a lot of people have developed bad habits.
I have to confess I used to be guilty of this. When I first moved to a city I quickly discovered a peculiar behaviour amongst drivers who, whenever I seemed to indicate before changing lanes, would either immediately speed up if traffic was moving, or would aggressively close every gap if the traffic was still.
The only way I seemingly could change lanes was if I did the maneuver as soon as I indicated.
Anyway I stopped doing that when I realised I was making excuses for my bad driving, so now I just tolerate shitty drivers in the knowledge that I myself am not potentially causing accidents.
Easties88@reddit
Is it in the Highway Code that you are supposed to wait a few seconds? I’ve never seen that nor was it taught. Mirror, signal, manoeuvre yes. But not any specific time, and 3 seconds is quite long in some circumstances.
maelie@reddit
It just says "in plenty of time".
Loose_Acanthaceae201@reddit
I wasn't taught a specific time. What matters is that you're clearly signalling your intent. If your indicator is winking away for too long, other road users won't understand if you've activated it by accident, or which gap you're aiming for, etc. Depending on the road conditions, two seconds could be confusingly long.
h00dman@reddit
I probably do more like 2 seconds, the same as leaving 2 seconds of distance between my front bumper and the car in fronts' rear bumper - enough to account for other people's reaction times.
SnoopyLupus@reddit
I don’t think we’re taught a three second rule, but we are definitely taught to indicate to change lanes, and anyone not doing so is a twat (last 7 words are taken directly from the Highway Code.
Personally, I check, indicate, check (including blind spot this time) again and move, so it probably is 2 or 3 seconds.
Acerhand@reddit
Not 3 sec rule, but to indicate “well in advance”. Thats what they drilled in to me back in 2015
maelie@reddit
Yep, the highway code just says "give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time" which I think allows you to apply some common sense to each situation, signalling when it will be clearest.
The problem is that too many drivers just don't have common sense. Or rather they are focused on what they're doing themselves rather than thinking about how other road users are interpreting their actions. Or just aren't focusing at all. I suppose I can see why a default rule of x seconds works for people who just can't/don't think about how the signal is being seen by others.
SnoopyLupus@reddit
I seem to be agreeing with everybody bastard that responds to me today. And you’re not helping. Where’s my internet argument????
Dr-Moth@reddit
I also don't remember being taught a rule about how long. I do remember being taught that I don't need to signal to change lanes going left when it isn't going to affect other drivers. However, my 2017 car has a lane assist that vibrates whenever I don't signal, so I now signal for both in and out.
SnoopyLupus@reddit
Some of the modern nagging systems are very useful!
Aragorn--@reddit
I've noticed a phenomenon on my regular commute where if you indicate properly, about half the time the car in the other lane will accelerate to close the gap and block you.
One response to that situation is to simply not give them the opportunity to respond, either by indicating and moving instantly, or just not bothering to indicate at all.
The other is to pop the indicator on, ignore the idiots and wait for someone to make a gap/flash you out. But on certain roads you can be sat forever, and after a few cars pass by I think people start to think you've just left it on by accident.
I think over time folks just end up crystallising on the former approach and apply it universally, because they are fed up with the shit. A feedback loop where one sort of bad driving breeds another.
I try to do it properly but it does grate at times. Only yesterday for instance I was approaching a junction with cars heading down the slip road. Checked my mirror and there was a gap to a van, but it was a little close, so I indicated and waited... The van proceeded to speed forward so he was alongside my rear quarter, then just sit there keeping pace with me. Even after I got out the throttle to make a gap for the merging traffic he was still sat there on my quarter. No idea what was going thru his mind, either he was completely oblivious to both the merging traffic and to my indicator, or was doing it deliberately. But in the moment I certainly thought "I should have just floored it out in front of him.."
orange_lighthouse@reddit
I indicate after I've checked there's nothing there. If there's nothing there then there's no need to wait 3 seconds.
JDzero@reddit
If there is nothing there what are you indicating to?
orange_lighthouse@reddit
Nothing in the lane I'm going into. That doesn't mean there aren't other vehicles around.
strawbebbymilkshake@reddit
Far too many lazy pricks don’t. It’s why you should never pass a middle lane hogger on the left, no matter how clear it is - if they’re useless enough to middle lane hog, they’re likely useless enough to realise they’re about to miss their exit and swerve into the left lane without checking their mirrors or indicating.
Seen it multiple times. I grumble about having to go into the 3rd lane to get around them and then watch as they swing back into the 1st lane with no indication.
WhereasUnique2484@reddit
Ok I need to ask this because I have looked it up but still don’t have an answer. Is it legal to pass a middle lane hogger on the left or is that undertaking even if you’re just sticking to the left lane?
strawbebbymilkshake@reddit
The Highway Code advises against it unless in specific situations, but it’s not a legally punishable offence on its own. It becomes illegal when you do so carelessly.
Acerhand@reddit
That last point…. I think they dont actually know how to drive. Like some of these have fake license or license fraud
strawbebbymilkshake@reddit
This isn’t something that occurred to me and yet now that you mention it, I’m not shocked that you’re probably right.
Wawawanow@reddit
In a sense, if you've sufficiently mirrored, it shouldn't matter if you signal late as there should be no-one near enough for it to be an issue for
rbarker82@reddit
My wife’s terrible for this. Always indicates eventually, but rarely before actually making a manoeuvre. Drives me mad, no pun intended.
No_Atmosphere1852@reddit
Unfortunately, the British man hits an age at which he becomes physically unable to reach backwards to activate the indicator stalk. His muscles atrophy rapidly and that form of movement becomes completely beyond his capacity. Even more unfortunately, the placement of the indicator stalk in Audis and BMWs exacerbates this affliction. They become unreachable even sooner than in say a Skoda, Ford or Volkswagen. No physical therapy has been able to overcome this, nor has any human science been able to explain it. Neither priest nor shaman has overcome this curse, except in the rarest of circumstance. Ancient sources mark the sudden inability of druids to signal from their horses and of carts driven by village elders veering suddenly across rudimentary carriageways. These atrophied shell-men struggle even to place their underwear in a hamper, move a sponge across a dish, or read any but the lightest tabloid (red being the lightest dye).
bdbamford@reddit
It's polite and I think you have to on the motorway and dual carriageways but people are lazy.
One of pet peeves is that people don't indicate properly. T junction and roundabout 🤬.
I can remember on my driving test, I had a minor which failed me because I had my indicator on for too long.
Acrobatic-Shirt8540@reddit
It should be: mirror; signal; manoeuvre.
In reality it's anything but.
Master-Quit-5469@reddit
To be fair… I’ll indicate and move immediately into the other lane. If it’s at night, no other cars around and I’m moving lane because I need to for direction purposes…
Otherwise. Indicators are used to give early indication of what you intend to do. It doesn’t give you a right of way or priority… 😂
jb108822@reddit
I always do this. I’ll admit I do occasionally forget, but that’s very rare. I’d rather take a couple of seconds to ensure other drivers know what I’m going to do than just move without warning and potentially cause an accident.
OriginalMarty@reddit
"Turndicating" lot of morons do that
Ziazan@reddit
You are supposed to indicate and wait a bit, but sometimes if I'm sure it's clear and there's nobody near for a long safe distance I'll do them at similar times. I'll indicate a lane change even if I'm on my own on the road late at night though. I also indicate any time I think it might help others understand my imminent intentions even if it's not technically required.
I hate people that don't indicate.
(& My car's a BMW I'm a paradox.)
So many people inadequately indicate here. I think a lot of people don't even realise you're supposed to indicate right when you're turning right on a roundabout, and you're supposed to indicate left when you're exiting it.
LakesRed@reddit
We normally signal for a warning, check, and then move. Some people drive like twats though
Banana-sandwich@reddit
Depends on your car. I understand Audis and BMWs have a design fault and they forgot to include indicators.
redds56101@reddit
It's a cultural shift to me that BMW drivers have been well behaved over the past couple years. I think the lazy ones found cheaper Audis to finance instead because they're some of the worst I've ever seen.
InstantN00dl3s@reddit
I think they're all suicidal. Have a look at the interior of an Audi, it's so god damn depressing it can feel like the only way to escape it is to end it all.
notouttolunch@reddit
I looked at an A3 which looked like an impoverished golf, I looked at an A6 (I think) which looked like there had been a bulk discount on switchgear.
aloonatronrex@reddit
They’re probably an optional extra you have to pay a subscription for, now.
YMBF80@reddit
Can confirm, as a BMW driver.
emil_@reddit
I mean BMWs have arguably the easiest to use indicators... and people are cunts regardless what they drive 🤷🏻♂️
Elegant_Plantain1733@reddit
Definitely have to indicate, but 3 seconds waiting is too long. All very well if there's loads of gaps, but you gotta take the opportunity.
SmegmaSandwich69420@reddit
Shit drivers are shit.
martin_81@reddit
It's mirror, signal, manoeuvre, it makes no sense to have a set time attached to the signal part, if you're doing step 1 correctly there doesn't need to be as you can see if it's clear to proceed with the manoeuvre, if it isn't don't indicate.
Humble-Astronomer396@reddit
Lazy/foreign drivers
Flat_Scene9920@reddit
BMW driver here. Could you explain what you mean by 'indicator' I'm confused...
Sirlacker@reddit
Indicators should be on before you move the steering wheel, whilst you're changing lanes and then if they don't turn off automatically, they should be left on until you're fully in your new lane.
People are lazy and dangerous cunts.
Ken-_-Adams@reddit
I don't trust anybody else on the road. I indicate as early as possible and during my lane changes.
Preferably after being flashed by the other driver to acknowledge that they see me wanting to enter their lane
Mr_DnD@reddit
There are rules,
But also, people are arseholes.
This isn't a UK specific thing, but we have high traffic density so you're probably noticing it more.
Note, UK roads, despite the noticeably shit drivers, have statistically very safe roads.
alurlol@reddit
You only indicate if it benefits another road user.
E.g. if I overtake a driver in the slow lane from the middle lane, I won't indicate to show I'm pulling back across in front of them once passed as naturally I'm going faster so me coming across is not impacting on them at all and should be expected.
Competitive_Time_604@reddit
and what if you need to suddenly reduce your speed upon entering the lane? Perhaps there's a developing situation ahead that you missed, or some debris, a large animal, roadworks, standing water... If the driver had known you were changing lanes in front of them they might have braked or changed lanes in the knowledge their stopping distance had been reduced. Perhaps there was a biker that you didn't see. Unless you're the Eye of Sauron i'd suggest indicating when required.
Ysbrydion@reddit
Drivers went feral after the pandemic.
MisterrTickle@reddit
Mirror, signal, maneuver.
Check the lane is clear to move into, signal, check the lane is still clear and then move into it.
trysca@reddit
Manoeuvre, please.
HarmadeusZex@reddit
I assume they do not know how to drive and that’s annoying
Accurate_Prompt_8800@reddit
You should indicate when you’re changing course and direction (for example, when changing lanes), stopping, or moving off.
Drivers should also give clear signals in plenty of time, having checked it is not misleading to signal at that time.
Too many people in this country either do it as an afterthought, or don’t even bother at all.
Acerhand@reddit
Yeah even if there is nothing there it should be done because you may not have noticed something and they need a warning even more if thts the case
Consistent_Bug2746@reddit (OP)
Yea definitely the person from the uk I was in the car with pressed their indicator then moved over every time with no time between the 2 actions. I was like wtf surely no one saw your indicator before you did what the indicator was indicating you were going to do.
glennok@reddit
You'd think for such a cautious, health and safety obsessed, rule abiding culture we'd be good at this, but weirdly not.
glennok@reddit
If you see a Prius. Expect a random slow down and drift way below the speed limit, before the random sudden swing/ uturn in to the opposite pavement then them indicating afterwards. The Uber lung I call it.
OkMarket7141@reddit
Having driven through a lot of mainland Europe I personally think we are some of the worst drivers in the UK.
Floyd_Pink@reddit
UK driving standards are absolutely abominable. Like 3rd world standards of driving IMO.
strattad@reddit
This is hilarious, have you stepped outside the UK in your life?
Floyd_Pink@reddit
Yeah, I've lived in 4 different countries so far. One of them actually 3rd world.
bucketofardvarks@reddit
Switzerland is a third world country and that word doesn't mean what you think it does
SnooStrawberries2342@reddit
You obviously haven't been to Belgium
iain_1986@reddit
Peak Reddit.
We have some of the safest roads in the world.
Riddles_7@reddit
It’s been a while now but I don’t remember it being part of Highway Code?? Happy to be wrong. I admit I don’t allow much time but a little at least, generally the heavy flow of traffic makes people rush manoeuvres a bit.
damadmetz@reddit
If there are no cars around I don’t bother. If there are, I do .
AnnoKano@reddit
Correct and normal are not necessarily the same.
Ok_Raspberry5383@reddit
Generally indicate when you're overtaking, you won't necessarily see people indicating as they move over left again once their overtake is complete.
You're correct though, mirror single manoeuvre is what's taught and those should be distinct steps.
HirsuteHacker@reddit
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. By the time they put their indicators on they should already have checked their surroundings and made sure it was safe to do the manoeuvre.
Macshlong@reddit
Signal your intent, move when safe.
We have a lot of morons, sorry.
SilenceOfTheMareep@reddit
People that do this boil my fucking piss
Buddy-Matt@reddit
Our driving instructors and highway code both agree, you signal, ensure things are safe, then maneuver.
Unfortunately most people forget this the moment their driving license turns pink.
bitch_whip_bill@reddit
Mirror Signal Maneuver
moonweedbaddegrasse@reddit
A lot of people can't be bothered to indicate when changing lanes. It annoys me. I don't do a three second rule ur I definitely always indicate.
mattjimf@reddit
A lot of people can't be bothered to indicate.
Fixed that for you.
hhfugrr3@reddit
Those people are idiots and many of them don't bother to look before changing lane either.
Kind-Photograph2359@reddit
Mirror, signal, manoeuvre. There's a massive amount of UK drivers who just don't bother with the first two.
"I turn left now, good luck everybody"
easterbunni@reddit
What happens when you indicate is that someone speeds up into the space so you can't then overtake and they sit next to you for miles.
So you need to tell people you're taking that gap rather than intending to or "asking"
bucketofardvarks@reddit
I like to play a game of "how long before the driver in front of me puts their indicator on did I guess what they were going to do next"
Scrombolo@reddit
I'm amazed you saw people indicating to change lanes. I thought it was just me.
GlitchingGecko@reddit
There's no specific rule, but you're taught to do it 'within plenty of time' which is at least usually 3 seconds.
People just don't bother, since there are no consequences.
lxgrf@reddit
No consequences? I think you'll find I give a devastating tut from the car behind.
Dry-Supermarket9652@reddit
We're taught "mirror, signal, manoeuvre" - observe, Indicate then move. What we have, though, is normalised deviance where people at best do all three in the same beat and at worst will just do the manoeuvre. Fortunately it's easy enough to dodge this nonsense by keeping to the left because the mouthbreathers who engage in that sort of behaviour also believe that lane 1 is "the slow lane" reserved solely for lorries so they'll never cross your path, not until they need to swoop across 2-3 lanes to make their exit at the very last opportunity though.
aloonatronrex@reddit
A lot of cars that are quite modern, but not super modern will allow a driver to tap the indicator stalk which causes the indicators to flash for 3 to 5 flashes.
To indicate for 3 seconds and then manoeuvre while still indicating, would require the indicators to be on fully, which the tap to indicate feature discourages.
It’s possible there’s been a few flashes that the OP missed, that cancelled before rhe manoeuvre was complete.
I’d also add, a lot of modern cars have lane assist, which will fight against you changing lanes without indicating and/or emit a loud beeping noise.
If you have a car with adaptive cruise control, you are encouraged to indicate not only to avoid the car beeping at you and the steering wheel vibrating, it also starts the car accelerating even if if wouldn’t normally let you because there’s a car in front, to enable you to get up to speed before pulling out to pass.
International_Cod_84@reddit
These people always remind me of this Jasper Carrott sketch (from 1:10 in)
https://cybergeekgirl.co.uk/video-jasper-carrott-mother-laws-driving-sketch/jasper-carrott-mother-in-laws-driving/
bartread@reddit
Really you should indicate before you start your manoeuvre, whether that's a lane change, going round a parked car, whatever. Plenty of people don't, or indicate as they're manoeuvring so you're left thinking, "no shit, Sherlock," but, really, you're supposed to do it. There are many bad drivers in the UK: feel free not to emulate any of them.
HonkyBoo@reddit
Annoys me when people indicate to move around a parked car, annoys me when they don’t. Top tier British driver
lukehebb@reddit
What happens is the lane keep assist starts complaining and they put the indicators on to shut it up
You’re supposed to do mirror signal manoeuvre but the standard of driving in the uk is bad
CyGuy6587@reddit
One of my biggest pet peeves on the road is drivers who start indicating as they're making their manoeuvre. Like what's the point? You're not giving me any new information 🤦
Perfect_Confection25@reddit
There's no specific rule, but you should indicate before manoeuvring to give adequate notice.
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