How strict are DPEs about soft-field takeoff and landing on the PPL checkride?

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spacecadet2399@reddit

You're going to need to be within ACS standards. (btw, I just looked up the current standards to see how they'd changed and holy cow, what a mess they've made. The old ACS was so much better laid out.) That stuff's non-negotiable.

The ACS is a minimum standard. There are certain maneuvers where if you get momentarily out of standards but then correct and are back within standards by the end of the maneuver, they'll consider that "within standards" for the overall maneuver. But a takeoff or landing isn't really like that. If it says "Lift off at the lowest possible airspeed and remain in ground effect while accelerating to VX or VY, as appropriate", there's no real way to fudge that. You can't, for example, lift off at a normal airspeed and then slow down. Or climb above ground effect and then settle back into it. You're going to fail for those things. You have to do it right pretty much throughout the maneuver.

You don't have to do anything *perfectly*; that's not what they're expecting. If you're not totally smooth on the controls or you pitch up and down slightly while trying to maintain ground effect, you won't fail for that kind of thing. But you do have to do what the ACS actually specifies.

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BillySpacs@reddit

If there's something you struggle with work on only those things for hours and I promise you it will be your strongest landing/takeoff. I struggled with steep turns so I always avoided them then when I got close to checkride that was 80% of my manuever and I hit them perfect.

In terms of soft field landing I almost feel those are the easiest since you are trying to fly AS LONG AS POSSIBLE. Get to ground effect then progressively and softly keep pulling back on the yoke. Try to never let it touch. Eventually it will and then you're done.

For short field takeoff I struggled with those for awhile but the thing that finally clicked for me was this-

Yoke all the way back and as you apply throttle and the plane gains energy slowly let off the pressure till you're airborne, now push down and DO NOT let the plane climb. Fight it. Keep it in ground effect then finally when your speed is built up transition to Vx/Vy depending on the runway situation

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EHP42@reddit

That's not short field, right? That sounds like soft field technique.

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BillySpacs@reddit

Edited to correct, thanks

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FlyingSceptile@reddit

Compared with the other specialty takeoffs and landings, I would say most instructors give more leniency and are looking to see you using proper technique over strictly staying as low as possible to maintain ground effect. Could be difficult now in the winter months across much of the US (assuming US Student), but I loved taking my students to an actual soft field, as there were a couple around. Most are fairly well manicured and forgiving, but still demand pretty good procedures because they are still grass.

That said, we can't see your flying, so there should be this caveat on every reddit post from student pilots of trust your instructor. If you feel your instructor is being unreasonable, or his/her instruction on this isn't clicking for you, ask your instructor to set you up with another instructor for a second opinion.

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appenz@reddit

Not a CFI but this matches my impression. Showing effort may be the more important part.

"You should be able to CONSISTENTLY be within ACS standards" isn't exactly helpful here as the ACS doesn't actually give any quantitative metrics. Short field landings within X feet of a target you can measure. But you can't tell if you are still mostly in ground effect or two feet too high.

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hawker1172@reddit

The ACS provides all the metrics you need to determine if you are consistently meeting the standards or not. Distance from desired touchdown point is -0/+400 along with minimal sink rank at touchdown, on centerline, and holding the nose off as long as aerodynamically possible.

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appenz@reddit

If they are defined, please kindly point me to these metrics. How many feet/s is a “minimal sink rate” and how many seconds is the cutoff for “as long as possible”? I can only see a qualitative definition, not a quantitative one.

The touchdown point is defined quantitatively, but usually it is not what causes people to fail soft field landings.

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hawker1172@reddit

Okay but based on experience you will know when you’re evaluating a student whether they meet those qualitative metrics.

It’s pretty straightforward. Slam it on the ground and let the nose wheel touch? Unsat. Sideloaded? Unsat. Off centerline? Unsat.

On centerline relatively normal touchdown that isn’t a slammer and hold the nosewheel off? Sat.

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bhalter80@reddit

If you're not good at it now the standards won't go down for commercial so sort it out before you dig the hope deeper.

No matter how low your hours to PPL are you can't get to commercial pt61 with less than 250 so slow down take the extra time and remove as much doubt about the ride as possible. Your performance the day of the ride will be your worst don't let that be substandard

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Maclunkey4U@reddit

Keep practicing, but if you find yourself not making any progress or struggling to get different results, change the practice routine.

Chair-fly a bunch of them so you don't have to think about the process as much and you can focus on the execution.

Pretend you're a CFI and talk through every single part of the manuever out loud like you're explaining/demonstrating it to a student for the first time.

Try an ACTUAL soft field if you have one available and if your school allows it, theres something really cool about landing on a grass strip.

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hawker1172@reddit

As strict as prescribed in the ACS….what do you mean? There is one standard? You either consistently meet it or it is illegal for your cfi to sign you off.

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Curious-Owl6098@reddit

Depends on the DPE. But the acs is what you’re held to. If you fall in that then you’re fine. My soft field takeoff and landing wasn’t perfect. I actually used a grass strip for my checkride. Didn’t have any comments about it from the DPE

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saml01@reddit

Have your CFI demonstrate. It takes a surprising amount of down elevator with takeoff trim to stay in ground effect. You need to see it and feel it.

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Barbell_Baker@reddit

You should be able to CONSISTENTLY be within ACS standards. You cannot go into a checkride hoping for the DPE to bail you out if you bust tolerances.

Yes, they dont expect perfect flying, but you need to exhibit competency.

As the navy seals say: "When facing adversity, you don't rise the the occasion, but instead sink to the level of your training"

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How strict are DPEs when it comes to evaluating soft-field takeoff and landing? It feels pretty challenging to consistently get it right every time. Any advice or tips would be greatly appreciated!

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