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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Let me start by saying I am not a Financial Advisor. Nothing I am about to say is considered Financial Advice to anyone.

What I am is a former Financial Fraud Investigator who is a consultant for Companies and Governments around the World. I am also very wealthy. I would say around the top 5% in the US. Rich enough that I am actually getting on a plane tomorrow for the World Economic Forum's Annual Meeting.

I say this not to insinuate that I am better than anyone else here. I grew up 'Middle Class' at best and everything I have is completely selfmade. I have been Homeless living out of my car with nothing.

Take what I say however you want.

Do NOT trust the Financial System we have today and likely don't trust what will come in the future with "Digital Currency".

In the United States of America, for example, your Bank Accounts can be frozen and funds held indefinitely without giving you a reason. All the Government and Federal Reserve needs to do is send a secure message to the Institution telling them to do this. How do I know this? Because I was the person that handled this for two Institutions.

In a "Perfect World", hold for laughter, everyone would have at least three months of savings for the amount needed to "function". Rent/Mortgage, Utilities, Cell Phone, Food, etc. However, we don't live in a "Perfect World". So here is what I suggest you have on hand.

1: Three Weeks worth of Shelf Stable Food. Yes, this is perfect for a Power Outage or SHTF but not what I am going for. Having food on hand will be a stop gap, if you will. If you lose your job or standard form of income, it takes 2-3 weeks on average to get it replaced. This could be Unemployment, EBT/Food Stamps, or correcting a "simple mistake" from Social Security. Having food means you don't need to worry about feeding yourself.

2: Have $500-$600 in cash in $1s and $5s. This amount is enough to cover the "average financial emergency". You could have Millions in bank accounts but if your area is without Internet to process Cards, you're as food as the person behind you. Have some Cash on hand.

3: Do NOT trust Credit Cards. Sure, you have a $10k limit with no balance. That isn't your money. That is THE INSTITUTIONS MONEY that they are willing to loan you. They can take that away at any moment without reason.

4: Having something "shitty" but paid off is worth more than having something "nice" but with a loan. That "piece of shit" 1998 Camry that runs fine but looks awful is worth its weight in gold compared to a 2024 Anything with a monthly payment on it.

5: If you don't physically have it, it isn't yours. This can be said for anything from Food, Precious Metals to your 401k. That 401k you have can turn to nothing tomorrow and you can't do anything about it. Don't "rely" on it to be there tomorrow.

Those are the top suggestions I have off hand. I am happy to answer any questions to the best of my ability.

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vinean@reddit

It’s good advice but honestly #5 doesn’t matter that much. The government can seize me almost as easily as it can seize my virtual assets.

Once I’m in custody I have no physical possessions anymore either…although it is possible that my kids might be able to access overseas holdings without me assuming they can get out of the country.

I am mildly tempted to have overseas holdings but the IRS makes that so annoying that nobody wants to deal with Americans opening accounts so I’ve never bothered.

Maybe if I ever get rich enough to have a 2nd passport or citizenship.

This isn’t a theoretical risk. My father was born in a Japanese internment camp. His family lost everything that didn’t fit in their suitcases.

The business partners had taken everything of value by the time they were released and they ended up living in a chicken coop they refurbished (a medium sized industrial one…not the backyard kind lol) on a piece of property they managed to hold on to. From upper middle class to almost nothing in one executive order.

My mother’s family lost everything to the communists in china…and most of her family were thrown into reeducation camps. She fortunately had already left the country. My uncle had begged my grandparents to sell everything and run. They declined and died shortly thereafter.

So within living memory of folks in their 80s and 90s.

5% ($1.17M) or 2% ($2.7M) isn’t rich enough to mitigate the risk of seizure and/or incarceration.

Maybe not even 1% ($11M)…not enough for a citizenship by investment to make financial sense. Malta will run you around €1.5M. Caribbean ones are cheaper but nobody expects to live there. Malta gives you an EU citizenship.

Maybe at $30M I’d consider it where it’s “only” 5% of my net worth. A “no brainer” at $100M net worth and 1.5% of NW.

https://www.kiplinger.com/personal-finance/605075/are-you-rich

4 I mildly disagree with. The safety systems in a 2025 car are just a lot better than whats in a 1998 car. I’d consider it if the loan APR was low enough.

YMMV.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Maybe if I ever get rich enough to have a 2nd passport or citizenship.

I have four, working on 6 total.

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vinean@reddit

Well, do tell :)

I briefly entertained one of the cheaper Caribbean ones but it failed the wife test. In a big way. One of those things that I theoretically could afford but not when factoring the cost of the divorce after, lol.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I am a Citizen of the US, Italy, Switzerland, Ireland, Belize, Australia, in that order, and working on Canada and Brazil.

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RhythmQueenTX@reddit

Which was the easiest process?

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Italy and Ireland were "easy" because it was through my ancestry.

My Father was adopted as a baby but found his Biological Mother later in life and she was an Irish Citizen who immigrated to America illegally. When he told me this I was able to pay a lawyer to do the work needed for him to get Irish Citizenship. I then claimed it through him.

My Great Grandmother on my Mother's side was from Italy and came to America illegally. I paid a lawyer to go through the process to get my Mother Italian Citizenship and then claimed it through her.

Switzerland was "easy" because it was done through "economic investment". I basically paid a butt load of money, bought a legal residence and got citizenship. They have since changed that law, so it is no longer possible.

Belize was also via "economic investment" but was a lot cheaper than Switzerland. This one has few benefits but is the easiest for anyone to get out of the ones I listed. I did this one almost for fun but it also gave me an advantage for my business that I won't get into.

Australia was a bit of a pain in the ass but was also via "economic investment". It required both money and time. I did this one as it was the easiest for me to obtain on that side of the planet.

Canada is complicated but it comes down to owning property, there, spending a certain amount of time physically in the Country and waiting out a clock. I am legally a Resident there and almost qualify for Citizenship.

Brazil is an "economic investment" and a clock but not as bad as Canada. I am working on this one so that I have a Citizenship in a BRICS country.

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vinean@reddit

Nice. Someday write a book or post on how to do that :)

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I do it for a living. So I was considering doing something like that at some point.

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TSiWRX@reddit

That generational-memory lives strong in me, too.

I'm a prepper for Tuesday.

Do I believe in SHTF/WWROL? Sure. I think it's possible, because of living memory within my generation. Both sets of my grandparents fled communist China and were refugees living off government rations and the kindness of the Catholic Church. My infant parents were carried in their arms or that of dear relatives/friends (and having left a few of their children behind). They came with the clothes on their backs (except for one treasure that my paternal grandfather also brought, which turned out to be worthless - more on that momentarily). As with your mother's side of the family u/vinean , relatives and friends were lost - with a handful of the living reuniting after things opened in the 90s. As I alluded to before, my father's family was very wealthy in China: the trunk in my childhood bedroom in Taiwan contained all of the land deeds that my grandfather decided would still be good someday...when my grandmother traveled back to China towards the end of the 90s, much of the ancestral home's sprawling estate had been turned into apartments, and the communists certainly weren't going to give anything back, LOL. My wife is Ashkenazi Jew, so little more needs to be said, there, right? In my mind, there's really no reason that such events *can't* happen again.

But here in "The Cold North." the likelihood of an ice-storm knocking out power lines or a water-main breaking (any season, really) and tornados blowing through? That's the yearly reality that makes me a "prepper for Tuesday."

As you wrote, it's all liable to go away, if "they" just decide to take it.

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vinean@reddit

Yeah, I’m a Tuesday prepper as well.

My SHTF prep is telling my kids “Know when to get the hell out of dodge…”

The hard part was back then the golden destination was escaping to the US. If you’re running from here where the hell do you go?

There’s no Israel for us. Taiwan will disappear the second the US does. Probably before. In theory I could get NWOHR status but to what end?

Interestingly enough the commies did offer property back to us. Mom declined so it went to some other branch of the family. The same part that sold out my grandparents actually. There’s a bit of a rift in the surviving family and a hard lesson that blood isn’t actually thicker than water when the SHTF.

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TSiWRX@reddit

I think my grandfather didn't get his property back is likely, at least in part, because the whispered part of the family lore was true: that he was a Japanese spy.

-----

The part about knowing when to leave: that's huge.

Luck or skill or just having sufficient connections in the community, we saw COVID coming. Will we see the next event? That's the great unknown.

And indeed, where to go?

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trapperest@reddit (OP)

Thank you for sharing your experience and input across this thread - you've given a lot of quality recommendations and provided a great deal of thoughtful insight.

I certainly agree with your philosophy of "If you don't physically have it, it isn't yours." Things like credit cards and diversified accounts are beneficial, but only as long as things are "business as usual" (hence the Prepping for Tuesday flair). They are no substitute for having physical resources readily on hand that you alone have sole claim to.

Thanks again for your contributions, and safe travels tomorrow!

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Happy to Help.

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TSiWRX@reddit

Thank you, u/TheSensiblePrepper , for taking the time to write-out that gut-check.

Safe travels, and when you have some down-time, I know that I'd love to see more of the wisdom, experiences, and expertise that you might be willing to share.

I'm nowhere near what I would consider wealthy, but I am also far from being without means. As of a month and a half ago, I've been on the wrong side of the half-century mark. I think what I fear most is what happened to a colleague of mine - rather, her husband. Through a clerical mistake, he woke up one morning to find one of his retirement accounts drained. Instead of withdrawing the five thousand dollars he'd wanted for a trip, someone decided to send him pretty much everything he had in the account...likely an innocent mistake in keying in a few extra zeros... That amount then "went missing" until it -to their relief- turned up close to a week later in his checking account.

Like you said, if I don't physically have it in my hands, it ain't really mine.... While I've always understood this (I grew up poor, inner-city Baltimore), it really wasn't until this scare that my colleague went through that really brought everything into sobering focus.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Like I said, just because I have money doesn't mean I am better than anyone else here. Some of my actions are different but generally, they are the same.

I have been tossing around the idea since last year at the Economic Forum, I didn't do it last year, about making a post on here about the event. The things I learned and the things I was concerned about. I didn't do it last year because I didn't want to make a negative post. Going there and talking to people, they literally still use the word "Serf" regularly. I fucking hate these people but I have to bite my tongue so I can be there. Maybe I need to write a post about what I learned this year and run it by the Mods.

Would this be something people on this Sub would be interested in?

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IGnuGnat@reddit

YES holy shite

Not only the financial details but the mindset and attitude of the people who drive these things. We need to understand who they are, what motivates them, to understand their intentions

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

We need to understand who they are, what motivates them, to understand their intentions.

Some are people like me. Who came up on their own and haven't "lost their way" getting to the top. We are few and usually find each other.

The majority of the people there, IN MY OPINION, are individuals that look down on others and don't understand the real World. I have met 18 year olds there that have never set foot into an actual Grocery Store in their entire lives. If you can find someone more disconnected from the rest of the World, I would love to hear it.

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IGnuGnat@reddit

Would you say that the majority of people there view other people as resources for them to exploit, or use and then discard, or do they see other people as independent humans with their own ideas, goals and values

I didn't really want to believe that the majority of people in positions of power had that mindset, I have been concerned that if this is true, it would be so easy for those in power to make rules that would crush us all "for our own good"

Looking at prepping through this lens, I see prepping as a practice of resilience which in part gives us skills and tools to resist the over reach and corruption of the authorities: from an individuals perspective, there is nothing more dangerous on the entire planet than a righteous bureaucrat who is convinced he is correct.

Part of the reason I "prep" is to try to build a lifestyle which is resilient to the possibility of this type of personality gaining authority and power: it is a direct response.

I dislike politics; it's a game of popularity in which we get to vote for the best liar. I prefer to act directly, peacefully, and locally: for me this means getting involved in local food security groups, community greenhouses, helping to increase density of living spaces on the subway line and things like that.

When I hear people saying things like "You will own nothing and be happy" or "You will eat insects and be happy" it feels kind of conspiracy minded and it feels too easy to dismiss. I maintain that there are dangers from bureaucrats with good intentions, at the same time someone has to do something about climate change: there are some ideas in the 15 minute city push that seem really quite reasonable and necessary. Living in Canada, I am concerned about the push to eliminate natural gas and move to electricity; I'm not convinced it will work quite yet, yes we should move in that direction

Anything that can bring clarity to these "conspiracies", help us to see the difference between information and misinformation, and help us to identify and push back against "well intentioned bureaucrats" would help.

If you can find someone more disconnected from the rest of the World, I would love to hear it.

My brother in law moves annually on a random whim. He tends to just leave half his stuff behind at the old place, and then buy new stuff at the new place, because he can't be assed to arrange movers. He subscribes to fresh grocery delivery, then he can't be assed to cook so he throws it all out and orders delivery. He has issues

A decade or so back I spent a lot of money on a top of the line Fujitsu heat pump to act as a whole house AC. It came with a seven year warranty. It failed at seven years, six months during peak Covid; I couldn't find anyone to repair it, they were only willing to rip it out and install new. I left it for a year or two and tried again; every tech who came agreed: this heat pump technology is to some extent disposable: if the copper coil fails, the cost of the copper is so high that it make no sense. They won't repair it probably because it's cheap and defective chinese copper. So they all said: throw it away and install new

My gas boiler that I use for heat maybe inefficient, but I rebuilt it once 20 years ago; it cost around $800 for the entire rebuild. It's now got to be around a half century old and it runs like a rock; it has never failed.

We need some sort of middle ground to find a way forward. With the Alex Jones and the sky is falling and the fear, uncertainty and doubt we need a rational, grounded, well thought out response to non elected officials driving agendas from behind the scenes; we need a way forward for every day, non political or politically averse people, to live their lives in a way that expresses their values and resists these potentially dangerous agendas, while also recognizing the dangers inherent in climate change.

I used to be a cyclist, until age, injury and health took me out. I maintain that this life choice is an example of the type of problem solving we need to see, but for an awful lot of people, it's just not practical at least from a Westerner's/ Canadian perspective. I biked 365 days a year so I know it can be done, but not everyone is that committed, and if you have kids or don't live on the transit line it might not be feasible

We need that perspective from people like you, to better know how to live our lives in a way that expresses and manifests our values

sorry I fuckin RAMBLE

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Would you say that the majority of people there view other people as resources for them to exploit...

Unfortunately, this is the truth. The Wars we currently have going on and starting? It is all fighting over the limited resources the Earth has left. It is about getting as much as possible before the planet has nothing left.

at the same time someone has to do something about climate change...

Agreed

...Living in Canada, I am concerned about the push to eliminate natural gas and move to electricity; I'm not convinced it will work quite yet, yes we should move in that direction.

We couldn't eliminate Natural Gas even if we wanted to. In the US and Canada, we have more Natural Gas then we know what to do with. Is it the best option for the planet? No, but people need to stay warm in cold climates and be able to afford it.

Our Electric Grid is failing. It is old and was never intended to last as long as it has. It is a testament to the designers and builders that it has lasted this long. Why hasn't this been done? Money. But not because we don't have the money but because no one wants to pay for it. The Utility Companies don't want to cover the cost and want the Tax Payers to pay for it so they can benefit from it. They are simply hoping it will fail just enough that the Government will have to fund its upgrade.

My brother in law....

Respectfully, your Brother-in-law is part of the problem and SHTF would "God Smack" him. I am sure you already knew that though.

We need that perspective from people like you, to better know how to live our lives in a way that expresses and manifests our values.

In my opinion, the change needs to happen at the Top. As the "old guard" dies off, people like me are trying to replace them and influence their children to understand the reality. That reality is that the World their Grandparents and Parents grew up in is gone. People at "the bottom" are getting angry, and rightfully so. When people are homeless, hungry and have nothing to lose, they show up at the homes of Rich People. If the people at the bottom are happy and not stressing so much about feeding their children, they are more likely to plan a trip to Disney World than they are to D.C. for a Protest.

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IGnuGnat@reddit

people like me are trying to replace them and influence their children to understand the reality.

I think the issue here is that if you are raised under that mindset where people are seen as resources to exploit, you tend to start to think in those kinds of terms, either it becomes your personality, or you are so forced to think that way to survive the mind games in your family that even if that's not who you fundamentally are, it is who you are forced to become, in order to survive.

People who think in this way don't see this way of thinking as a weakness; they perceive it as a strength. So, there is no motivation to change; "Why would I deliberately choose to become weak"

I'm a big believer that it takes all different kinds of people to make the world go around. I respect what you're trying to do.

My suspicion is that in the end, the people only get what they demand, or what they take.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

You should watch the Documentary The One Percent. It is from 2006, long before I became wealthy, about the Heir to the SE Johnson Fortune.

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Probing-Cat-Paws@reddit

Absolutely! Not many people have the privilege to be "inside the room" and want to share details that can help the everyday person. Knowledge is power. Appreciate your comments in this subreddit in general...this just piqued my interest a bit more.

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HappyAnimalCracker@reddit

Definitely!

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JaneInAustralia@reddit

Yes please!

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GhostofGrimalkin@reddit

I would absolutely be interested in this, I've been enjoying reading your thoughts and appreciate your quality posts.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I appreciate your interest.

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TSiWRX@reddit

You can count on my up-votes for a thread like that, for-sure.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

While I appreciate that, I am not here for Upvotes. They are nice because that means more people see my suggestions. I just want to help people.

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TSiWRX@reddit

The up-vote is just my way of saying "thank you." =)

People who help deserve to be thanked. It's one corollary to my Golden Rule ("Don't be an asshole!").

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

The up-vote is just my way of saying "thank you." =)

And your thanks is both appreciated and all I want.

It's one corollary to my Golden Rule ("Don't be an asshole!").

I am glad to see I am not the only person that tries to live by that particular rule.

I also like "Be Excellent to Each Other."

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OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit

This is solid.

The only eyebrow I raised was you getting on a plane to a WEF meeting (no, I don't have a problem with the WEF) while being in the top 5% of the US, weathwise. Dude, *I'm* in the top 2% by net worth (admittedly I count investments, and I'm taking Google's word for it) and the WEF is not interested in my attendance. Or existence. You have to be well north of me if you have a reason to care about anything they say, let alone vice versa. And good for you, but sheesh, say hello to Bezos for me. He knows me as the flyspeck on the decimal point denoting the pennies in the accounting errors in Amazon's first minute of profit for the year.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I work with these people, for better and for worse, and need to be in "their world".

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OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit

...

May the good Lord have mercy on your soul.

Oh, and can you tip us off before the next pandemic, please. We all know they create them. /s

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

May the good Lord have mercy on your soul.

I will take all the good vibes I can get on that. I try to balance things out in my life.

Oh, and can you tip us off before the next pandemic, please. We all know they create them. /s

I knew by normal means like everyone else. I was actually in Singapore in December 2019 when I heard a Chinese Top General went to the Wuhan Lab, which I knew is where they develop these things. I got on a plane back to the US the next day because I knew something was coming.

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Finna_Otter_91@reddit

Good advice. Think I'll try to build up stock to three weeks-worth of food.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

It never hurts to have extra shelf stable food.

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Finna_Otter_91@reddit

Regarding your thoughts on a future digital currency, what would you advise as ways that the average lower-middle class person can protect their personal interests/belongings? Do you think precious metals or cash even be viable at that point?

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TSiWRX@reddit

\^ This is an interesting question - it's one that's constantly swirling around in my head, too.

If the world is in true collapse, will anything outside of a "commodity" actually have any value?

When people are starving and there's no food, what good is gold?

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IGnuGnat@reddit

Copper will always have value; even poor people need copper wire to get power. A spool of wire and some copper plumbing is good to have on hand, if it takes up too much space you can buy copper bullion or ingots. It is true that copper takes up a lot more space than gold or silver but it might actually increase in value faster due to demand

I have a pretty decent tool collection, and I know how to use them, at least the basics. I can build a storage chest, install a door, frame a wall, fix a broken drawer or kitchen cupboard, I have extra electrical supplies so i can replace outlets, I've got some emergency clamps used to stop a leak in a copper pipe, and the tools to braze and repair the pipe. I can build a solar generator from parts, and fix a busted toilet

think: skills + tools + supplies for everyday kind of emergencies

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TSiWRX@reddit

That's an interesting point about the copper - I never thought of it like that.

As for skills and the tools that go with them, absolutely. This is why I believe in a strong community. I think that while it's important that we all have some basic skills, there's also something equally important to be said about having those in our community who have in-depth specialized skills.

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IGnuGnat@reddit

also I collect a little bit of copper for fun; not collectible coins, but bullion which comes in large one ounce "coins" with a large variety of different designs. You can find these coins in auctions or on ebay, if you are buying one at a time you'll pay around $5-10 CAD; if you buy a lot of 100 at a time you can often find it closer to $2.50 CAD per round.

So I like to use them as stocking stuffers for children, or if there is a friend I haven't seen in a long time or a neighbour who helps me out I will bring them a coin, it only costs me a few dollars but it's not something that people see often, so it stands out. These are very large coins at one ounce it feels a little heavier in the hand than you might imagine; when you hold it, you feel you have a little piece of treasure. The designs can be fun, I like memento mori, old ironsides, the different designs are just fun to collect

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TSiWRX@reddit

That's really neat! I didn't know they existed. Thanks!

___

And yup: I think skills can interplay - and it's not just about the absolutes of what you're professionally -or otherwise- trained to do or have studied to become that can be valuable.

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IGnuGnat@reddit

oh yeah, my night job is cloud engineer. I'm an infrastructure wizard, everything I build exists in the cloud, it's invisible, it's the networks, the firewalls, the database servers, the web servers that keep everything running... I still have the experience from fixing desktops and maintaining servers in data warehouses, so if you need something related to PC, server repair, infrastructure or back end services, I'm your man; that's my specialty

With collapse in mind I deliberately try to build up some hands on skills so that I'm "okay" or "good enough" at other things.

In my previous life, I was an industrial model maker: my manager told me I was the only person he had ever seen who could reliably build parts for anything, that measured within the thickness of a human hair, in every possible dimension.

So I'm rusty but I could still operate a milling machine

When I was in college, I took some courses in the fundamentals of power supplies, later at work I would design UPS systems for small networks and have the electrician come in and follow the blueprints I sketched, to pull the wiring and connect it up. Then I rewired some houses, later I figured out how to troubleshoot my vehicle electronics: from there, teaching myself how to build solar generators took a bit of study but it was within my grasp

So I have specializations but, I also have the basics to tackle a fairly wide range of problems

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I have been to very poor countries with Gold and Silver coins. Since those poor people can't take the coin to turn into food or local currency, you have no where to spend them.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

The short answer is, I don't know.

Precious Metals will always be a storage of Wealth but I say that while also saying it is the last thing I would recommend to anyone. I have a large amount of disposable income that most people don't. So buying Gold coins is different than for you.

So my real answer is going to be if I was lower-middle class and what I would personally do.

I would try and store commodities. Things like food. Stuff that will always be needed and, as long as it doesn't go bad, I can use it. No, you can't pay your mortgage/rent with a bag of rice. What you can do is barter that bag of rice to your neighbor who can replace your car's muffler for you.

When I was homeless, I would use my tech skills to eat. "Will remove computer virus for Food". You would be shocked at how well that worked.

Buy Quality whenever possible. I just bought a new pair of sneakers for $200, the best New Balance 99* Series they have, which is a lot. However, I bought those sneakers because the old version of the same one finally failed. Which was purchased back in February 2019. At almost six years old, that's $34 per year. Find me a pair of $40 shoes that will last you more than a year with regular use.

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Finna_Otter_91@reddit

Thank you for your thoughts. I really appreciate them!

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

All I can give is my thoughts. I wish I could do more.

I might be a "1%er" to most people but I promise that in my heart I am a Middle Class Boy that didn't get everything he wanted for Christmas because of cost.

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Remote-Candidate7964@reddit

Agreed!

I was lucky to grow up with a Dad obsessed with financial literacy. Even when my husband and I have gone through awful, hard times, I’ve kept money stashed in cash and in my own bank account. Saved us countless times, especially when traveling. Something about traveling always triggers a bank to be inaccessible even if I warn our banks in advance.

I have to build up my cash again, in small denominations. Utilized it to get us through a tough November and I’m working to get us back to our status quo again.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Something about traveling always triggers a bank to be inaccessible even if I warn our banks in advance.

This is because the Bank has to be overcautious due to Regulation E and Reg Z for Credit Cards. It makes them liable for Fraud on your Card. The most common fraud type is "cloned cards", you would think it would be having the card numbers and online order but it isn't, and that means they need to be worried about anything happening in the physical world outside your "normal area of use". Even if that's just 30 miles away.

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Remote-Candidate7964@reddit

AHA! Thank you for explaining that

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

Happy to Educate.

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grandmaratwings@reddit

We learned this lesson several years ago. Was drinking my morning coffee and checking my emails. Had one from the bank that said our balance was below some insanely low figure. I was sure it was a phishing email so I went to the bank app and sure enough. Checking and savings gone. After several phone calls that morning we discovered that someone had stolen my husband’s identity. Opened a separate account with this bank, transferred all our funds into this new account, and then withdrew everything from the bank. At this point we had everything in one bank and only had one or two low-limit credit cards and very little cash reserves.

We’ve kept a deep pantry for a long time, so we were ok on food. Got creative in preparing meals but, learned new recipes from the experience. It took the bank 10 days to complete their investigation, we had no funds to access during that time. They did eventually restore our balances and we promptly removed everything from that bank.

Since then we have diversified funds into two separate banks, one local and one a national chain. We have additional credit cards that get used occasionally, just to keep them active. And we keep a larger cash reserve on hand. We also locked our credit reports, which is an inconvenience when we do want to make a vehicle purchase, but it’s worth it to not get another one of those emails and find everything gone.

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RhythmQueenTX@reddit

You may want to freeze your credit with the three big names and Chex systems too which some banks use to verify identity.

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MoreRopePlease@reddit

I've been thinking about using an online bank as my main checking account (I have been using a credit union with brick and mortar locations near me).

What is the risk involved in not having a physical place you can go to do banking stuff?

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Rad0077@reddit

Not sure of risks, but I maintain the local bank for main checking. Then any extra accumulated money gets transferred to an online bank for the 900% greater interest on savings. Have the online bank checking account debit card so there's no fees at any ATM.

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MoreRopePlease@reddit

That's a good way to structure things. Yeah I was thinking about interest rates, and what to do with my cash. Thinking about the pros and cons of Fidelity's account vs something like Ally.

Also thinking ahead to wondering about how the fdic (and I think there's a brokerage one too) limits work when you have multiple accounts.

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TSiWRX@reddit

Up-voted. Absolutely agreed.

Also, after the Target data breach a few years ago (https://redriver.com/security/target-data-breach), we got smart and also "diversified" our credit cards, with a separate card -from separate institutions- that my wife and I each keep for secondary use. This way, if our shared primary card is compromised, we still each have a way to make credit-card/electronic purchases.

We also moved all of our autopays to yet another separate card which never leaves the house and isn't used for anything else. This after my MIL's main-use card was recently compromised: she spent nearly a full day shifting over all of her autopays....

Dangers of modern conveniences, right?

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BigJSunshine@reddit

All very smart. I have my pay and client checks deposited into an account with a bank/card that never leaves the house/safe. All auto pay on this account too.

Each month I write a check to my credit union account for my budgeted food, pet supplies and estimated discretionary spending- (in person and online). Once that money is gone, no more spending unless I show up to the bank in person to withdraw then deposit into the CU account. It can be a hassle sometimes, but it also helped me save a 6 months emergency fund in 2 years.

We also have 3 weeks of cash on hand. Working to add a month’s mortgage/insurances to that amount too.

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RonJohnJr@reddit

Out of curiosity, why are you writing a check to the CU in 2025 (much less 2020, which is the last time I wrote a non-gift check), instead of doing an ACH transfer from the bank's web site or phone app?

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TSiWRX@reddit

\^ Could be like my MIL - she only started using her bank-app for deposits and peer-to-peer transfers this year, after quite a bit of pressure from me.

My wife is also a slow adopter. She only started 2 years ago, again at my insistence. You should see how long it took for her to finally put her side of the bills on auto-pay.

Don't get me wrong. My MIL is a role-model to me. After my FIL passed some two-and-half years ago, she has repeatedly stepped out of her comfort zone to learn new skills and to become even more independent (she only truly retired last year, after working since she was a teenager). Similarly, my wife's professional career is also exemplary, and isn't without its technological components (physician-executive). It's just that both liked the tangible, physical feel of the paper check.

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TSiWRX@reddit

That's awesome!

I think was should be emphasized here -particularly seeing how much you've got built-up- is that for the vast majority of us, this kind of prep takes time.

I see a lot of younger folks posting in this sub for "beginner recommendations," and quite a number of them include both words like "poor college student" or "low wage earner," in combination with phrases like "feel overwhelmed by the need to prepare." That there's a sense of desperation in their intros because they feel overwhelmed by all that they feel that they need to prepare for. Recent examples:

I think that beginners -especially those who likely feel the most pressure to prep because they are most disadvantaged or at-risk- can feel overwhelmed when seeing how much those of us who have spent years or even decades have stocked away or at the ready.

Especially the newcomers to our community should realize that for the vast majority of us, we didn't get here overnight. It took planning, sacrifice, as well as patience for us to build the reserves that we have. That it's not about what someone "should have," but rather about what little anyone can do right now in this very moment, to take.a small bite out of that elephant.

Because that's the only way anyone is going to be able to eat that elephant.

One bite at a time.

As an adult, my not joining my co-workers for take-out lunch or after-work happy hour is a quick $10-$20 in my pockets while I gnaw on a sandwich or yesterday's leftovers.

In college, I realized that skipping morning Starbucks and going with a simple thermos of instant -or even getting more luxurious with some decent beans and home cold-brew- saved me $5-$10, easy.

As a teenager, I understood that working fast-food sucked....but they'd also comp me one free meal, and I could use the money that I saved from that for my week's worth of gas.

Do what you can.

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trapperest@reddit (OP)

This is absolutely great advice.

I understand that many people have an aversion to credit cards, but after seeing how many people have said that they have no way of paying for gas or groceries since their cards aren't working, it definitely shows the importance of having access to other funds or, at the very least, having cash on hand.

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TSiWRX@reddit

Thanks!

And I absolutely agree that it's important to have access to both, at-hand. There are so many places now that are cashless (we live in CLE, where Progressive Field, for example, is cashless - there are, however, "reverse-ATM machines" that allow cash-conversions to debit cards). Similarly, "tap-to-pay" with one's smartphone -which many folks have close-at-hand- can also make things faster, easier, and safer, without the need to pull out one's wallet/billfold/money-clip or dig in one's purse and without a physical card to skim.

But with these conveniences come some degree of compromise, too. From financial literacy (I think this is where a lot of folks' aversion to credit card usage stem from, and I can appreciate their thinking) to the need to keep on top of scams and fraud...it's a trade-off.

I actually also carry a paper check on me (one whose number I have recorded elsewhere) - this after a COVID-era grocery shopping trip where the supermarket's checkout computers went down. I was doing weekly groceries for both my family and my elderly in-laws when that happened and had a ton of stuff. While they could take cash, I didn't have enough on me to cover everything and was in the process of down-loading the carts when, luckily, everything came back online. Speaking with the checkout clerk, she reminded me that they'd also have taken a check....

While paying with a check isn't a foreign concept for me -I'm fifty, after all!- it's been so long since I've seen someone do it that I'd totally forgotten about it.

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RonJohnJr@reddit

there are, however, "reverse-ATM machines" that allow cash-conversions to debit cards).

Don't all ATMs work that way? Or do only in-network ATMs work like that?

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TSiWRX@reddit

Good question - I'm not sure.

I only use my bank's ATMs locally for quick-cash and even less occasionally for deposits. My fear is skimmers, so I tend to stick to the two branches/machines that I am most familiar with. [ Similarly, although outside the bell-curve for sure, is that "going to the ATM" is one of the few true risks I incur in my daily life, so I try to not do it, if I can at all help it. ]

My bank's ATM check-deposits allow for instant access to funds, without a fee, if the funding account is also of the bank's "network." "Out of network," a small fee is assessed for the same.

I've never had the opportunity to do a cash deposit at the ATM, only teller.

The one at Progressive, from what I understand, is similar to this one: https://www.abc15.com/news/state/reverse-atm-cubs-use-new-technology-for-cashless-transactions-at-spring-training-concessions . The system at Progressive was implemented this past season: https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2024/04/new-year-renovated-ballpark-4-changes-to-know-at-progressive-field.html

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RonJohnJr@reddit

Out of curiosity, why are you writing checks in 2025 (much less 2020, which is the last time I wrote a non-gift check)?

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brian_d_wells@reddit

Something else to consider is to have debit cards locked or otherwise disabled until you need to use them. We know someone whose card never left the house and they still got fraudulent charges. The bank had no idea how it happened (or just would not tell them).

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TSiWRX@reddit

Wow!

Thanks for that tip! I had not thought of that possibility! I will follow-up on that, for sure!

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Optimal-Summer-236@reddit

4 days for me still nothing. Switching to navy fed which I already have an account and splitting my check between a few banks and now going to make sure I keep more cash this is upsetting because it’s money I worked for

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RedSquirrelFtw@reddit

At minimum, good idea to have cash on hand. When the government was freezing people's bank accounts for supporting the freedom convoy it really got me realizing just how fast you can lose access to your money and I ended up taking out 1k of cash out just to have it at home. At least I can do groceries and such with that.

That said paying bills is a bit more tricky as most utilities and other bills probably won't accept cash and changing preauthorized payments to come from another bank is a huge pita, especially for a short term thing. Not sure what is the best approach for that. Wait for a late payment notice I guess? I think they would then send you a paper bill and you could then pay by cheque.

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Probing-Cat-Paws@reddit

Thank you for this quality post...which has generated quality discussion, OP!

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trapperest@reddit (OP)

Of course! Happy to see people exchanging a lot of great ideas!

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Charli-XCX@reddit

Not me fucking reading this when I got paid 2 days ago and immediately transferred it to my bank lmao. I checked and it's still not there after 2 days. Usually it's 1.. but sometimes It's been 3 business days so I don't mind....yet. Luckily I'm not in need of that immediately, so as long as it gets solved in a reasonable timeframe I'm fine.

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rocketscooter007@reddit

If shtf and we had to use cash, how long do you think that would last? I don't know the answer, legit question. I've heard that about 3% of total US dollars are in actual physical form, and it's spread out all over the world. Seems like there wouldn't be enough for everyone to use.

Whenever there is a run on the banks, they shut down or limit withdraws because there's not enough money for everyone.

I guess what I'm trying to say, is there less physical money, than money that people have in the bank?

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SheistyPenguin@reddit

Yep- we keep the emergency fund at a different bank, with no ties to financial apps or other payment integrations.

While rare, there are plenty of mishaps that can result in your funds being frozen, or accounts being closed with no warning- and then the burden is on you to claw your money back. This is especially true in cases of fraud or identity theft, when you get blamed for someone else's bad behavior.

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Special_Context6663@reddit

Agreed! Financial preparedness is often overlooked in prepper communities.

One account should be a local credit union. Far better customer service than large corporate banks during good times likely means they will be more helpful during hard times.

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TheSensiblePrepper@reddit

I have worked for Banks and Credit Unions. I preferred working for Banks. Why you might ask?

At a Credit Union, everyone is treated the same. For better and for worse.

At a Bank, I could make the choice of giving someone a refund on their 5th fee because it made sense to do it. At a Credit Union, the rules are "only fee refunds per calendar year". It didn't matter if not returning that fee meant a family didn't eat that night. It was better to have the ability to determine on a case by case basis instead of hard rules.

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trapperest@reddit (OP)

+1 for local credit unions!

Once you find a good one, nearly every other banking experience with national institutions just seems sub-par in comparison

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Finna_Otter_91@reddit

Amen to that! Love my local CU.

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RonJohnJr@reddit

I remember when saying "financial preparedness is more important that guns" in this sub got me flamed up one side and down the other. Times really have changed here.

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ForkliftGirl404@reddit

This idea is understated. My husband and I have our money across multiple banks. A lot of our friends thought we were crazy, but we've been able to prove them wrong. There have been several instances were banking has gone down in my country with specific banks, the worst lasting for 2 weeks. I heard horror stories of people not being able to pay rent, bills or even food during that time unless they physically went into a branch, which is shit since so many branches have closed down in my country thanks to everything going online. When this happened, I was semi affected since I banked with them, but unlike others that have all their eggs in one basket, I just swapped to one of my other bank accounts and went about my business.

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brian_d_wells@reddit

Something else to consider is to have debit cards locked or otherwise disabled until you need to use them. We know someone whose card never left the house and they still got fraudulent charges. The bank had no idea how it happened (or just would not tell them).

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