CFI that took the "Airlines-WILL-Hire-You-at-1500" Bait™ looking for weird advice.
Posted by stuart535@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 93 comments
Yes, another stagnant CFI looking for career advice. But I think I have a somewhat unique situation and I'm all ears to hear other opinions. New account but I've lurked for years. TL;DR at the bottom. Here's the context:
- Wife and 2 young kids, in my late 20s. Renting. Lease expires in a couple months and landlord won't let us renew, not our fault. Not eager to move and sign a new lease as we'll be downgrading quite a bit, we had a sweet deal going.
- I'm not bent on airlines. Goal is just make decent money and fly planes without my wife and kids hating me. Ideally wife can quit working. I understand airlines are generally considered to be most capable of fulfilling that.
- I have 1250 hours and meet p135 IFR PIC mins. <20 multi. CFI/CFII, no MEI. 2 owned and explainable (what I learned) checkride busts.
- Decent CFI job currently. Nothing special, ok pay and super flexible, I'm treated well, honestly don't mind it but a little burnt out. 40-60hrs/month realistically. Wife pays the bills (barely), works remote, can move. Kid's are puny.
- I've exhausted all 91/135 jobs within realistic driving distance (there weren't many, I don't live in a very busy aviation area). Cashed in on some contacts in my network, others were cold calls. Each fell through with mentions of 100+ applicants competing per position. Already shot out dozens of applications online throughout the country, crickets, unsurprisingly.
- 65k debt family loan, no payments due for another 2.5 years.
I watched my whole school's CFI roster get swept off and make it to the majors in just a few years when I was a student. Then recently watched my coworkers who hit 1500 get TBNT's or seemingly indefinite class date wait times and it dawned on me a little late that I don't have any guarantees.
So with our lease ending I'm making some considerations:
- Stay, sign a new lease somewhere with a slightly downgraded family QOL, keep instructing and hit 1500hrs sometime this summer, shotgunning apps to anything I find along the way. My worry with this is hearing in summer 2025 that my class date will be sometime in mid/late 2026 at best given the trends lately (IF I even get a CJO). Sign a contract and make the slow climb up the daunting seniority list.
- Here's the crazy one I'm looking for feedback on. Professionally leave my CFI job and move in with family in the DFW area (short-term, already greenlit) which seems to have a lot more opportunity than where I live now. Dress nice and walk a resume into each place I can find and qualify for, offering immediate availability. Stick my nose into every event I can attend and try to build a new network. A gamble for sure. Try to find CFI work as options thin. Decent chance I could return to my current job with my tail between my legs if needs be if it was within a month or two. I know I'm low time and I'm pretty sure only a connection will find me a job.
- Make a trip out to DFW on my own for a week and try to accomplish the objective above before uprooting family. I dunno, think I'd need to be really lucky. Maybe repeat as necessary in other locations.
- Less considered, but go find a job that grows my network and just instruct on the side. Fueling, FBO, haven't explored it too much. I know there are a few hidden p91 ops in my area, just don't know the right people.
I worry that if I don't hit my "big break" flying anything with a turbine point A-B my progress will stagnate with diminishing CFI returns as I slowly sink into a deepening pool of near 1500 or 1500+ people coming out of the training surge all struggling to find work. I figure I might as well knock out a 1yr contract with a 135 and show up to a regional much more competitive than the average CFI. Or just stay at said 135 if I like it, who knows.
What would you do?
TL;DR - young dude young family, rental lease about to end, moving is basically forced. Send it, leave CFI job, move to DFW, and go bang down hangar doors old school handing out resumes for anything turbine or just stick to instructing until 1500 for no guarantees?
Thanks for reading.
dubvee16@reddit
You are severely limiting yourself with the less than 20 Multi.
120SR@reddit
It’s a terrible idea for a guy with 2 kids to go time build dozens of hours at ~$500/hr. Nobody is gonna come calling him with a job to fly a jet that’ll support his family because he has 40hrs of time in a Seminole over 15.
I’ve got 360 multi, 330 of which is turbine and still crickets like everyone else (2400TT, 1600 turbine, degree, no failures, ATP/CTP, etc.)
PutOptions@reddit
Damn. It has gotten THAT bad already? Hang in there.
120SR@reddit
I’d be sweet if someone proved me wrong and named dropped a company hiring guys like me
Stocksonnablock@reddit
Kalitta was and I’m sure they will be again. ABX was hiring first officers very recently, see if that posting is up still. Atlas was hiring 3 months ago.
The problem is that you basically have to pounce on a job opening because they’re closing within days of posting right now.
120SR@reddit
Agreed pouncing is a good idea. Kalitta=TBNT, Atlas= also TBNT (applied last summer at 1500TT), ABX didn’t respond, didn’t apply to breeze but 121 is quite a long short today if you don’t have 121 time
Stocksonnablock@reddit
I look every single day for hours finding job postings. It’s rough out here man.
120SR@reddit
Amen, my turbine time isn’t 121 or 135
Stocksonnablock@reddit
MAC is hiring DECs for the ATR
Stocksonnablock@reddit
Also Skywest charter is hiring DECs. Not sure how much TPIC you have.
PutOptions@reddit
A couple kid instructors at my FBO just joined PSA via their cadet program. One had 1000 the other 1250. No fails. Good kids and good instructors. I didn't understand that was such a "safer" path. Am I missing something?
That-Ad-7962@reddit
See that’s what I’m saying, there are a few instructors at my school in the same position. But yet there are guys much more qualified posting on here that aren’t getting any offers. I don’t understand.
Anphsn@reddit
Im in your same shoes, I have hundreds of multi turbine, ATP CTP, 4 year degree, and nothing from and 121 carrier
120SR@reddit
I’ve gone well beyond 121, still nothing
Anphsn@reddit
No 135?
120SR@reddit
No, you mean 135 homebased jet SIC jobs? No way, recuiters tell me they don’t even put those job postings up because they get flooded with apps
Anphsn@reddit
Wow unlucky
Sensitive-Bison-1035@reddit
Where are you applying? Regionals?
120SR@reddit
Every mainstream company plus anything that pops up on climb to 350, Biz Jet jobs, Facebook and JS firm (JS firm kinda sucks though) you got any other ideas?
Sensitive-Bison-1035@reddit
Idk what JS is, I just started at 91 at 350 hours and I thought by the time I get to the mins I’d be great with the turbine time but it sounds like you have a lot of time but no bites, interesting
120SR@reddit
What’re you flying? Today it’s about who you know and whether or not you have a type rating, companies aren’t giving out opportunities and willing to pay for types
Sensitive-Bison-1035@reddit
Citation III
120SR@reddit
The people you meet within that job is going to be your opportunities, online applications and shear hours doesn’t do much.
Solid-Permission-770@reddit
Yea, I know, I highly recommend doing the FBO thing to everyone in this subreddit, a lot of people don’t want to but it’s literally the easiest way to build a network
That-Ad-7962@reddit
I don’t understand why CFIs at my school get CJOs at the regionals despite me reading about all these posts just like yours. What are they doing differently? They just hit mins and have class dates this spring. I know my school is more well known and has a good reputation. But hard for me to understand what the difference is between you and so many other guys.
120SR@reddit
CJO’s from who? Cadet program? Are they actually leaving and going to class?
That-Ad-7962@reddit
SkyWest and Republic I believe, yes CJOs they’re leaving soon. Offered a few months back.
dubvee16@reddit
I didn't tell him to go get dozens. He's not eligible for the ATP under 25 though.
120SR@reddit
Still, what’s ATP mins gonna get you today?
PilotsNPause@reddit
Yikes, didn't realize it was that bad. Hope you get a call as hiring picks up (hopefully) in the next few months.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
Yeah I'm feeling it. I can afford to split time at a place near me to get to 25 at least, with some budgeting 50.
Yeah at that point I could just get the MEI too ofc but that'd mean finding somewhere to use it.
dubvee16@reddit
Eh, you really dont need to use it for it to be worth something. Especially if your two busts were the more recent ones. On the flip side of that you cant afford another bust.
But yes getting to 50 would change your outlook pretty drastically.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
Definitely worried about another bust. I feel much more capable now than back then, but I'm still clinically stupid and could see myself brainfarting something. Maybe I'll save up to 50, kinda don't want to deal with the DPE stuff and get tied down somewhere training. Not off the table though.
YourFriendlyCFI@reddit
There are people with 500+ hours of multi that can’t get hired. Time building to 50 without getting your Mei is just going to waste money.
YourFriendlyCFI@reddit
If you are going to waste time building such little multi time, you best get your Mei and make it valuable.
I built 350 multi in 8 months after I got mine
Working_Football1586@reddit
As someone that flys in the 91k/135 world, I can safely assure you that you dont want any part of a company that will hire you at 1250 hours. Often times they will have a spot for you sitting right seat in a plane you can’t log time in and maybe he will give you a leg to fly here and there. They will likely tell you it’s ok to log the time because insurance requires an sic (it’s not ok to log). The plane will be barely airworthy and they will likely ask you to do things that are illegal and unsafe and you will get paid poorly for it although maybe slightly more than a CFI.
I feel for you the last 250 hours feel like wading through mud. If it were me I would work 7 days a week for the next few months getting hours absolutely everywhere you can, get your resume dialed in and work on interview prep and be ready to go the minute you hit 1500 hours. Things may change maybe they wont but you have a ton more options at 1500 hours. I would caution you against dragging your feet because people out there are saying noone is hiring right now, plenty of people are getting hired and it’s not about just about hours, get some interview coaching.
Grand-Jacket-8782@reddit
If you have not already, SET UP A LINKEDIN. I have gotten invites to interview at smaller flight departments with some chit chat with random people on LinkedIn. It is an amazing networking tool.
Do #3, aim to do #4 in the meantime, and if you find a job in DFW area, do #2. Don’t move and uproot your family to a job you don’t have. I do encourage going down to make connections and put some faces to names. I really do encourage #2 for the saving money aspect. This is going to suck to hear… But it’s going to be a while before you make decent money. Regional FO’s definitely do not make family-man money.
1 is wagering heavily on you getting hired immediately upon reaching 1500. The backlog of CFIs is going to be crazy for the next few years, so it’s going to be extremely competitive.
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
You know, this was the normal hiring condition for most of my 40 years in aviation, in fact longer than that because my father talked me out of becoming a pilot for five years because hiring was so slow! You will make it, hiring will accelerate again. I just saw the new hire class at my training center a couple of days ago. It’s tough with family, I lived at home as a CFI, it was always so much harder for 135 guys and CFI’s with kids. Hang on, be willing to move, Alaska is always an option for building some more time. Check out Guam’s 135 flying, also Air San Juan in Washington state, island flying, I did that. It’s a great career, but that last couple years of hiring were not normal, but I think it will stay above average. Boeing slow deliveries and Spirit furloughed pilots being hired by other airlines problems are two big factors now.
https://pilotcareercenter.com/Air-Carrier-PCC-Profile/2605/Star-Marianas-Air
J0E_Blow@reddit
Did you like working for Air San Juan?
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
Yes, the San Juan islands are so beautiful, there is a reason why Ernest Gann and Richard Bach, two of the best aviation writers ended up living there. A really great flying job!
J0E_Blow@reddit
I don't know if I'll get to the regionals in any reasonable amount of time but flying in Washington State and the San Juans seems like a nice gig even for a few years.
Cascadeflyer61@reddit
You may make Horizon connections there, I did, people in Washington state tend to end up flying there. I did for four years.
Competitive_Oil_6599@reddit
I have to say fellas. Over the years watching this I have over 20k hours and left seat at one of the largest US carriers. From what I have seen just keep plodding along. I did not get my certs to get a job. I just did it cuz i like getting certs. The people that were on the tail end either kept putting one foot in front of the other and were responsible for that direction, and because they were active they got a job on the next hiring spree, or got into another field. I have done a lot and there are no other fields worth the benefits to me overall. Not unless you're a top doc or top lawyer. as even in law their are people that haven't done well. You just keep going. I lived in a Opa Locka hangar from 1993 to 2000 and then in a warehouse till 2005. I did get on at a cargo operator in 98 and a regional at 2002 and the major at 2008 and then laid off 2008 till 2014 and worked contract pilot jobs for a yr and a half and a 135 operator for a couple and then overseas contract for a couple years till 2014. It has been worth it. But I still drive a 1993 Chevy and a junky 87 EL Camino neither with A/C because I am cheap from all the above and my taxes are horrendous. I bought a 1/3 priced collision damaged 2015 Jeep with 12k miles on it and put a new front cap on it so my girlfriend of 10 years could drive and I will never get married and got myself snipped many years ago so I didn't make stupid mistakes and put it everywhere I could. But I will never ever get married especially the way women have turned out today and paid for everything up front in my own name.
Bowzy228@reddit
Brand new CFI here working on my CFII .Reading posts like this scares the crap out of me. In my early 30’s and only started training 2 years ago (career change). Hopefully things get better in a couple of years
sjpilot1994@reddit
Do number 1 then do number 3. If you have a job paying you to fly, no matter the capacity, keep it. You can leave professionally AFTER the opportunity to move on presents itself
iamdumbazfuk@reddit
3, apply to be ATC in the next bid and become another controller who wanted to be a pilot
Once you certify and make decent money build more hours and wait to jump ship when the hiring picks up, or stay as ATC like most of us have
Brief-Focus-593@reddit
When will the next bid happen?
iamdumbazfuk@reddit
Spring this this, make a profile on usajobs and a search
Flyingtiger04@reddit
Hey same boat but I’m a decade older. I have the same hours, instructing in Iowa and it has slowed way down with the weather. Moving back to Texas in march with my wife and daughter and will have a few hundred hours to go before I hit 1500. If you want to fly together some I have access to a T182RG and a J3.
CaptMcMooney@reddit
move to dfw, huge city, many job opportunities, cfi on the side, get real job until a flying gig is available. live with family, stack that paper besides, the kids will probably love you for this.
TrowelProperly@reddit
Nice job getting a family before getting into an airline then complaining that you cant leave your local area to find a kingair or q400 job elsewhere.
You're still young so max you'll lose is another 2 years, but you're going to take the penalty for that decision. Personally, I think in the long run its better to have kids early so you'll be happier down the line.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
I can leave, honestly the kids part is almost irrelevant as my family is very supportive. I knew the kids would be a setback, and that was calculated. The real debate is if I should walk away from a decent CFI job to gamble for a job elsewhere to differentiate myself for when it does come time to go to the regionals (which yes, you're right is probably 2 years out) or passively wait for 1500 and iffy CJO's/class dates.
TrowelProperly@reddit
I would get a multi engine turboprop job tomorrow in your shoes. You don't want to accrue 5000 hours of CFI single engine piston and have to distance yourself from that.
barrisunn@reddit
I agree. Having a lot of CFI time, it was an uphill battle for me to prove that I can do anything that's not CFIing. Bucketing into 'forever CFI' is real.
DannyRickyBobby@reddit
Have you heard of 135 in Alaska?
stuart535@reddit (OP)
Yes, applied to several jobs there.
Whirlwind_AK@reddit
Take your resumes and jump on a plane to Alaska. Show-up with resume in hand. Walk right in to every outfit in Anchorage. Look them in the eye and talk to them. Ask them for a job - you’ll get one.
You’ll learn about yourself and flying. You’ll have no regrets.
They get resumes in the mail all the time. Those go straight into the trash.
Oh - and stop-off in Juneau on the way home.
Flarre80414@reddit
As others have said, you’ve gotta get that Multi time up. That’s gonna be a huge limiting factor in your job search. If I were in your shoes, I’d get the MEI, move the DFW to take advantage of the free living for a few months, and start looking for a job to teach multi. Build multi time while living with family and keep sending apps everywhere you can. Knock on doors, wear a suit, and be friendly to everyone at the airport. You’ll find something eventually, it’s just gonna take time for the industry to hit the upswing again.
NoGuidance8609@reddit
I’d do #3 while my wife was packing the house and getting ready for #2 and not just because I was trying to get out of the house because I hate packing. It’s just the logical first step.
SEA_tide@reddit
You're trying to buy yourself some time while waiting for a 121 offer and getting your remaining hours.
Standard financial advice is that you need to increase your income and decrease your expenses. Moving to Texas accomplishes both of those. You mentioned your kids are young so presumably such a move would actually be easier on them than if you waited a few years. Presumably you would be living with family such as your or your wife's parents, which would also allow your children to spend lots of time with their relatives. There is a ton of value in getting to spend time with your grandparents or other relatives while growing up. Your family already has shown that they want to invest in your future by giving you a large personal loan and offering greatly reduced rent. Unless it comes with a bunch of problematic strings, take them up on their offer.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
You're right, honestly just the family side alone makes it tempting. Wouldn't be free babysitting by any means but wife would be a happy camper living with/near her parents. Shouldn't be any drama.
rocketspeed12345@reddit
Job first, then move. Every time. If you wanna do aviation you will have to move a few times. Don’t move hoping for a job though. Job first
SEA_tide@reddit
In an industry where you could be based almost anywhere having the opportunity to at least spend some time near family is a huge plus.
gromm93@reddit
Seconding this, having raised kids this way. We actually moved in with my father in law around 12 years ago because he didn't want to live alone anymore, and wanted to help where he could with our kids. They're teenagers now, and there's a ton of benefits to this kind of arrangement. Now, we're spending a lot of time taking care of him as opposed to the other way around.
It's a common way to live in SE Asia. Not so much here in North America, but the benefits still exist. Don't act as if it's a terrible option.
aftcg@reddit
It'll swing the other way again. It always does. Unless orange man bad opens the US market to foreign carriers
DOUBLE_DOINKED@reddit
What part of DFW? I know of a couple of cool flight schools that may need some help on the Fort Worth side.
Wooden-Term-5067@reddit
I would also do number 3. You might actually struggle to get a CFI job at 1250. The way a school will look at you is this guy only wants to be here for 250 hours then he’ll bounce. If you’re week in DFW is not fruitful then id just stay and get to 1500+.
PutOptions@reddit
If the DFW family move-in is with HER parents then hit that. Sounds to me like it solves for a lot: $, family, helps the wife, puts you in a much more dynamic marketplace.
Cropgun84@reddit
If you have a pulse and hate yourself you could try Ameriflight if you want multi. Baron if you want to fly something that isn't junk, but its a single.
Informal-Sentence217@reddit
Find another flying job that isn’t CFI or 121 and keep trying for 121.
YourFriendlyCFI@reddit
“Just find a job”
JoshFlak@reddit
Let me call Taylor up
TheRauk@reddit
If you don’t think you are competing against the Bic pen you are deluding yourself. That’s my advice, ponder it.
Good luck!
jakep623@reddit
What do you mean?
TheRauk@reddit
If you have to ask, you might want to check out McDonald’s. I hear they are hiring with no minimums.
jakep623@reddit
Thanks for choosing McDonalds, what can I get started for ya?
JK, I am an engineer and worked at NASA for 3 years. You are a bozo one trick pony boomer. Get out of bed and hose off, go check the lobby of your retirement home gramps.
TheRauk@reddit
GenX but thanks for the promotion. It is amazing though what the Silent Generation and Boomers did at NASA. I noticed as of late they outsource it all.
I don’t know. I guess you are good enough for government work but not SpaceX, BlueOrigin, or the like.
You be well.
Anphsn@reddit
Yes because faking a few multi hours will make him more competitive (Not). And losing your entire career because you’re impatient is a stupid idea.
TheRauk@reddit
“If you don’t think you are competing against the Bic pen you are deluding yourself. That’s my advice, ponder it.”
You do you, but you are deluding yourself. What is 150 positions of seniority anyways.
Anphsn@reddit
So you’re saying to fake a bunch of random C172 hours. Geeze this guy is a genius!!!!
TheRauk@reddit
“If you don’t think you are competing against the Bic pen you are deluding yourself.”
Anphsn@reddit
Are you autistic?
BandicootNo4431@reddit
3 Sounds the most reasonable.
I wouldn't uproot your family without first going on a scouting mission to see what the job market looks like.
And if they say TBNT, then that's the time to ask them what hours you'd need to get to a yes. It might be 5 more multi hours or an ATP, but given your numbers both of those aren't out of reach in the next 3 months.
jakep623@reddit
Im new here, what does TBNT mean? thx but no thx?
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Exactly
Anphsn@reddit
20 multi won’t even get you hired at the shittiest 135 / regionals
stuart535@reddit (OP)
I understand it limits my options. Though I have spoken to several operators whose multi minimums were CMEL only for SIC. Though rare, they're obviously the highest on my list.
Anphsn@reddit
I hate to say it but maybe MEI is your best bet in the meantime. It will allow for slightly higher pay and more multi hours.
ryanworldleader@reddit
If someone is offering you free rent you take it in your situation. Especially if that free rent is in the dfw area. Lots of jobs here, although it’s competitive for sure. If you do get on with a non-dfw based outfit, you should be able to commute with no problem.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
It'd be at most 2 months likely. I've officially moved to the "will relocate anywhere" camp for a bit now, DFW seems like a good start. Just hoping potentially a 2+ month gap in my resume doesn't get frowned on.
Viper111@reddit
Solely my opinion based on what I think I would do in your situation. Go with #3. You said you're willing and able to move to the DFW area, but try going on a scouting mission first before committing. Look for every 135 in the area and hit up any connections you might have or people further along in the industry who might have some inside knowledge. If they're small operations, I would call/email rather than just show up, but if they have an office dress up and take in a resume. Add some safeties (CFI/pipeline/skydive etc.) in addition to your idea of an "upgrade" job. Tell everyone you talk to that you are moving to the area and looking for work. See what kind of hits you get in a week or two, then you'll know whether it's worth moving to Dallas. If not, expand your search to other areas you'd consider moving to. If you're not finding much where you are now, you'll probably have to move for the next job.
stuart535@reddit (OP)
I'm thinking it may be the right compromise. Would a least learn a lot that could inform the next step significantly. Thanks for sharing.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Yes, another stagnant CFI looking for career advice. But I think I have a somewhat unique situation and I'm all ears to hear other opinions. New account but I've lurked for years. TL;DR at the bottom. Here's the context:
I watched my whole school's CFI roster get swept off and make it to the majors in just a few years when I was a student. Then recently watched my coworkers who hit 1500 get TBNT's or seemingly indefinite class date wait times and it dawned on me a little late that I don't have any guarantees.
So with our lease ending I'm making some considerations:
I worry that if I don't hit my "big break" flying anything with a turbine point A-B my progress will stagnate with diminishing CFI returns as I slowly sink into a deepening pool of near 1500 or 1500+ people coming out of the training surge all struggling to find work. I figure I might as well knock out a 1yr contract with a 135 and show up to a regional much more competitive than the average CFI. Or just stay at said 135 if I like it, who knows.
What would you do?
TL;DR - young dude young family, rental lease about to end, moving is basically forced. Send it, leave CFI job, move to DFW, and go bang down hangar doors old school handing out resumes for anything turbine or just stick to instructing until 1500 for no guarantees?
Thanks for reading.
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