Sign your debt over to dying people?
Posted by ribbeef@reddit | CrazyIdeas | View on Reddit | 85 comments
So debt can’t be inherited(at least in the UK), it will always be taken out of the estate and then just voided. If the person who was dying was willing to take it on, why couldn’t I just sign any debt I have over to them and it would be voided when they pass?
Hell, why don’t dying people with no wealth take out loans as big as they can and give the cash to their loved ones. It’s not an infinite money glitch but at least it’s way to screw some cash out of banks and predatory loan companies
maw_walker42@reddit
Just because people die doesn’t mean they are absolved of any debt they have. I don’t know if state or federal (US) but in my state any survivors of the deceased are responsible for the remaining debt. Thats in a marriage anyway, not sure in other situations.
MegaMeepers@reddit
Only replying because I went through this recently. My dad passed away, the family credit card was in his name. My mom and I were authorized users on the account, not joint account holders. We talked to the credit union the card was at (for reference, we live in Az but the CU is based in Ca and Fl only), and they confirmed neither mom (who was married to dad when he died) nor I were responsible for paying off the CC. It had to be closed because the acct holder died, but we weren’t on the hook for it at all. However, because we were authorized users on the card, our credit scores would go down as the debt defaulted. We had the life insurance money so just decided to pay it off. But no obligation to pay it because it was his debt, other than our credit scores going down
SupermarketLate3214@reddit
Maybe do a balance transfer of debt to someone who has the credit
TheBupherNinja@reddit
There are a few things here.
You can't just 'sign over debt'. Someone can take over a loan, if it's tied to a physical good, but the bank is involved in that process.
They could get a loan and just give you money to pay it off, but it's they have to qualify for the loan without collateral. Else the collateral will be taken.
Some juristictions also prevent or reverse asset transfer. If they gave you $10000 the week they died but had $20000 in debt, often they can persue that money.
funke42@reddit
The move would be for the dying person to open a high limit credit card and buy something that holds its value (like gold), and then give that to a friend.
superfunction@reddit
someone once told me her dying mother got a credit card that was first initial last name since their names started with the same letter
parabox1@reddit
So the committed felony credit card fraud and they tell people about it.
Sounds like you know some classy people
series_hybrid@reddit
She wasn't born radicalized, she was made that way from a lifetime of oppression by global corporations. The Healthcare CEO who was murdered made cancer medications prices with a 1000% markup, instead of the usual 50%
xabc8910@reddit
Insurance companies do not set prices for medication the providers / manufacturers do. Insurance companies are absolutely in favor of lower medicine prices. What are you talking about??
LCJonSnow@reddit
Insurance negotiates a significant discount on medicines. As a result, it's artificially driven up the listed price for many medications/medical services.
xabc8910@reddit
The post I replied to said insurance companies set prices for medicine. I simply said they do not, a fact which you’re confirming. I also stated insurance companies would prefer lower prices for medicine, something you also seem to be confirming. 👍
parabox1@reddit
I agree with all of that
You should stop supporting corporations and shop local and USA made.
Gram-GramAndShabadoo@reddit
Ah yes... shopping local for checks notes cancer medications.
parabox1@reddit
So rather than do something you do nothing support Amazon and Walmart and just bitch on Reddit.
Gram-GramAndShabadoo@reddit
Amazon and Walmart make cancer drugs? Can you please explain how I can buy cancer drugs locally? Or what else I can do to buy cancer drugs not from pharmaceutical companies?
parabox1@reddit
You are not smart are you.
Did the person commit credit card fraud only use it for purchasing medicine?
The larger subject was corporate greed
series_hybrid@reddit
Many Americans who retire and no longer have to live where there is work, they move to be close to the Mexico or Canadian border, so they can cross the border once a month and buy meds.
The meds are from the exact same company, but the full-price cost is less than the co-pay when purchased in the states.
Mexico and the Philippines are the top two destinations for American retirees to move to, and live off of social security.
LackWooden392@reddit
Lmfaaaao exactly someone get your boy
causal_friday@reddit
The penalty was death. What further action would you like to pursue? Bring her back to life and make her apologize?
parabox1@reddit
So the person using the card and committing the fraud also died?
The Felony fraud is on the person using the card not the person they took it or got it from.
How on earth did you not know that.
brokesd@reddit
My uncle found out he had cancer got a crap ton of unsecured loans he was uncle money bags giving cash out left and right. (U.s.)
Yeah he beat the cancer medical debt loans etc he went bankrupt.
Jaw709@reddit
Or just turn it into a liquid crypto and hide the keys
Remarkable_Fuel9885@reddit
Credit cards hand out 0% cash advance (with a 4% one time transfer fee) and then standard 23.99% interest after 12-15 months like candy.
Just have them do this, give the other person the cash and voila
ToQuoteSocrates@reddit
Actio Pauliana if i remember correctly
TheBupherNinja@reddit
?
adavidmiller@reddit
I don't know if signing over debt is a thing you can just do. The debt is owned by who you owe it to, I'm not aware that you can simple sign that over to someone else without their approval.
As for why dying people don't take out loads... I imagine it's a matter of balance. Like, if I wanted to kill myself soon, I could absolutely liquidate all my assets, max out my line of credit, max out my credit cards, whatever else I can figure out, and then hand over everything as unwashed cashed to a family member.
For people that are dying with no wealth... It seems pretty hard to balance. Most people don't know exactly when they're going to die, which means balancing the debts with your assets to try to hit the cutoff with fewer assets than debt, and getting those loans is going to be harder the closer and poorer you get.
It just seems like a miserable thing to try to intentionally take advantage of. Plenty of people die in debt anyways, trying to min/max your ending balance sounds like a lot of stress in your final days.
hitguy55@reddit
If you do know when you’re going to die, good luck finding someone who will give you a loan when they ask your doctors and they say you’re going to die in like a year, I guess you could do it if you were the only one but also no one is in that situation
llamaz314@reddit
Do people just not lie? What are they going to do arrest a dead guy?
hitguy55@reddit
They can just look at their records and go „oh it says this guy has stage 3 cancer, he probably won’t be around for 10 years to pay this loan“
causal_friday@reddit
Although it might be wise for banks to ask for records like this, they do not.
adavidmiller@reddit
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. The more reliably you know when you're going to die, the less access to loan abuse you're going to have. And the less reliably you know, the more you're stuck trying deal with having those debts while you continue to live.
Just don't see it happening outside of a planned suicide, and this probably isn't the top of their priorities.
TokyoSharz@reddit
I heard that’s how people got rid of unwanted timeshares. Sounded legit at the time.
Material_Mouse_4485@reddit
If you are planning on killing yourself, can you buy a house with a home loan and then give the house away to a friend or something first? Wouldn't really work if you were going to die naturally of old age or something because they would just refuse to give you a loan.
tenbeersdeep@reddit
Here pops, have all my nothing.
comisohigh@reddit
the banks will issue a 1099 form for earned income that will be taxed onto the death estate. life lesson learned from friend whose wife took on husband's debt with with her end stage cancer in her last year on a credit card. He still owed the money
mckenzie_keith@reddit
Do you think the people who loan money are stupid? Well, some of them might be. But a dying person will probably have a hard time borrowing money as you propose in your post.
Debtors typically cannot transfer a debt to a different person without consent from the lender, even if the new debtor agrees (but why would they?).
Bricker1492@reddit
I’ll be signing my debt over to Alexander Gerko and Jeremy Clarkson.
monkeywelder@reddit
My grandmother did this indirectly back in the early 90s. she knew she was going after a stroke. Got the cards and maxed them out on pawnable goods.. mostly jewelry and gave them to my mom.. I just sold the last piece for like 500 bucks. 30 years later.
Mammoth-Hat-7952@reddit
My brother did something similar before he left the US. Maxed CC, took loans, even left some checking accounts in the negative sold his condo took the cash and left.
RobertaMiguel1953@reddit
Brother sounds like a truly shitty person.
Mammoth-Hat-7952@reddit
The man was never happy making money in a legit way always wanted the quick money now and the easiest way to get it.
f_GOD@reddit
i love when people get one over on a bank and as much as i think they deserve to get fucked, i don't think you want this. you're not hurting the bank because they're just handing out customer money. when your idea catches on the only person getting fucked is you when the bank doesn't have funds to give you and your neighbors your money.
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Ptricky17@reddit
The bank when you go to withdraw your savings, after they’ve lost too much money to this scam:
“Sorry, yeah, we know your account is supposed to have money in it, but we don’t have your money. We transferred our debt to Dave, and he’s dead now. Go take it up with his estate.”
fidelesetaudax@reddit
Existing debt cannot be reassigned without the consent of the lender that’s why. Might work for new unsecured debt though
gangstasadvocate@reddit
Gang gang! Good idea! I’m trying this
Nidiis@reddit
I have a friend whose dad did something like that. He was dying of cancer and prognosis was only a few months to maybe even weeks. So he basically transferred all his possessions to his wife. Took out several credit cards in his name only and went on a super lavish trip to Disney land with the entire family.
bbarham99@reddit
We need the financial Jesus Christ. He will die with our debt, but won't rise again. It's the only way I see the US making those trillions of dollars in debt disappear. Honestly, shame on Jimmy Carter for not volunteering.
Zero_Burn@reddit
So the episode of South Park where Kyle got an unlimited credit card and everyone transferred their CC debt to his?
GrandmaForPresident@reddit
He paid off their debt with his Amex, big difference
crono9456@reddit
"Margaritaville" S 13 Ep 3
LegoLeonidas@reddit
Loan Jesus takes on all of our debt, dies for our financial sins. If God resurrected him anyway, the first words out of his newly-risen mouth would be "GOD DAMMIT!"
1king-of-diamonds1@reddit
The Onion was ahead of its time
GrandmaForPresident@reddit
You can't just sign over debt......
MilesTegTechRepair@reddit
If I know I'm dying next year, and I don't have an estate to speak of, and I think it's a good thing to do, I could max out all my credit facilities and give a bunch of stuff away untraceably. The banks would have no estate to claim any of that money back, and they would have to take a rare loss. But that sort of loss is still always factored in and is rare and small enough not to be something worth protecting against. It doesn't scale
hitguy55@reddit
Unless you have like 80 cards you’d only be able to give as much as your credit card can withdraw. Good luck trying to borrow anything not immediately available when you’re about to die
Jonny2284@reddit
Because at least in the UK HMRC expect such things to still be considered for 7 years.
To stop people signing things over on their deathbed. Like my instance when my dad died he left a financial mess for my mum, there was nothing to the estate but a clapped out ford escort and the house, and I had to clear that debt otherwise the house could have been up for it. Afterwards she signed it over to me as a thank you.
She died 5 years later, as executor of her estate, I still had to consider the house as part of it even though I'd technically owned it for 5 years at that point.
veryblocky@reddit
I thought things like houses going to a spouse were exempt from creditors being able to claim back what they’re owed?
Jonny2284@reddit
The biggest debt was a joint mortgage which would end up just passing to her, I probably could have told more of the smaller debts that were just his to go whistle, but I wasn't in the best space at the time, and honestly relatively speaking just having it all cleared so she had a clean slot was the aim of hte game.
I_might_be_weasel@reddit
I feel like the creditors of the estate are going to sue you.
MilesTegTechRepair@reddit
The whole point is to do this when the estate is empty
I_might_be_weasel@reddit
Exactly. The creditors aren't getting paid so they're coming for you.
MilesTegTechRepair@reddit
There's no creditors. Why have you made up creditors
veryblocky@reddit
A creditor is someone you owe money, which there will be it you transfer debt to them…
nomoreimfull@reddit
Someone needs to answer this from a nation position. Us, UK, other places.... The laws are not the same everywhere.
Also, buying commodities and no record... Hard to trace where they went. Crypto, paper wallet? Maybe better.
I_might_be_weasel@reddit
Because this person owes money. That's the whole point of this scheme.
PilotBurner44@reddit
They owe money to the nothingness apparently. "Making up creditors" 😂😂😂
PilotBurner44@reddit
They owe money to the nothingness apparently. "Making up creditors" 😂😂😂
2001Steel@reddit
Most consumer contracts have clauses that prevent reassignment. I just refinanced my home mortgage and saw this. I have no bargaining power here and so I’m forced to accept the term. The answer is because you probably already agreed to not assign the debt.
drfury31@reddit
You have to be approved for a loan, which ususally requires means to pay it back, such as colateral. I doubt any bank will just give out a large loan to a dying person "willy nilly" without means to collect back.
I like the idea though, it just needs a little work through to make it happen.
bobotwf@reddit
Take out loans you don't intend to pay back.
BaitmasterG@reddit
Me: I want the thousand bucks I lent you
You: I assigned it to Dead Dave, I don't owe you any more
Me: give me my fuckin money
Sominiously023@reddit
Essentially, you can do it. They’d have to put it all on a signature loan or credit card as debt but as it goes people with nothing tend to have full credit cards and/or low available credit for disposal.
Strange_Space_7458@reddit
Because that's fraud and you would go to jail.
Liv_NB@reddit
You can still have bankruptcy upon death - a deceased insolvent estate. A trustee is appointed to deal with the estate and gather in any assets for the benefit of creditors. They would also scrutinise transactions during the past few years (there are various limitation periods) and would need to consider creditor claims, at which point this would be looked at as to why it is forming part of their insolvent estate.
Debts can’t be passed on on death, but transactions can be undone if they give rise to a claim.
Cold-Jackfruit1076@reddit
Because you have to be approved for a loan, and one of the criteria is 'can/will they pay it back'? And if they can't, it falls on the estate to repay the loan.
erin_burr@reddit
Sounds like fraudulent conveyance
saveyboy@reddit
They can and do.
chickey23@reddit
If we could do this, we could assign everyone's debt to one person
eriometer@reddit
There is a wider consideration that the "banks and predatory loan companies" are also part of the economy, and will have investments (or be invested in) by other companies, insurers, pension funds etc.
And when those dominoes start tumbling, things go south very quickly indeed. They don't just exist in a vacuum of their own.
[I am not an expert but have lived through the most recent financial crashes and banking failures as an adult with savings and mortgages and pension investments]
ratman431@reddit
Awesome idea
FatHedgehog__@reddit
Because you cant just pass your debt to anyone. Similarly to your second question someone with nothing can not get a big loan.
Loans are given based on how likely they think you will be to repay.
forgotwhatisaid2you@reddit
You don't get to assign your debt to anyone else. The person who is on debt remains in debt until it is paid or disposed of through bankruptcy death, ect. On the collection side debt can change hands but on the debt side it can not.
coyote_rx@reddit
Great! A few people get a couple of thousand dollars and the rest of us are paying for it with higher interest rates on credit cards, mortgages and loans.