Racism and Bigotry
Posted by Sufficient_Space8484@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 1076 comments
I know this is going to be met with the typical Reddit rage, but hear me out. Disclaimer, I’m a CA native who understands that my worldview is different those who may not be. As a GenX’er I feel like we kind of had racism and bigotry figured out in the 90s. My black friends were not “my black friends”. They were people who were my friends who just happened to be black. My gay friends and coworkers were not “my gay friends and coworkers”. They were my friends and coworkers who just happened to be gay. We weren’t split up into groups. There was no rage. It wasn’t a thing. You didn’t even think about it. All I see now is anger and division and can’t help but feel like society has regressed. Am I the only one who feels like society was in a pretty good place and headed in the right direction in the 90s but somewhere along the line it all went to hell?
frogger2020@reddit
I would disagree with you hard as an Asian growing up in Calif. I was subjected to a lot of names, humiliations, physical acts because I was Asian in my Jr High and High School. There were very few Asians in my schools and all of us were subjected to abuse of some sort. Once I went to college I noticed that there wasn't much racism as there were a lot of Asians at the school.
I watched as my kids grew up and went to high school and they did not have much if any of the racism issues that I endured. I think nowadays people are much more tolerant than the 70's and 80's. I think people are blinded by social media thinking that is the way of the world, but the real world is very different now and I am hopeful for my kids and grandkids.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
yep. I have to wonder if OP is white.
I grew up in the Bay Area which is very diverse and also had very little overt racism at the time, certainly a paradise compared to the central valley or American South. But there was still plenty of casual and institutional racism, and we were all living in a world where movies like Sixteen Candles could be made and few batted an eye.
I really think much of what OP and others are experiencing is that at that point in time, POC just didn't get to talk about what they were experiencing, even with "safe" white people, which allowed white people to think that everything was fine. If nobody was burning crosses in your neighborhood, and you had friends who weren't all white, then there was no racism! When in fact that wasn't reality for the rest of us.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Grew up as a gay GenXer in the south. Hell no would I want to go back in time.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
No kidding. I was so far in the closet I didn't even realize it, and I live in a very liberal town. It simply wasn't safe to be one of "those people".
At least we could hide in the closet. It's kinda hard hiding skin color
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Very true!
Fandango4Ever@reddit
OP is most definitely white. Not a single POC would ever think racism was anything less than present and active anywhere in this country at any point in history.
denzien@reddit
My high school in SoCal was predominantly Asian - something like 60% I think. You might have liked it there.
I lived in 3 cities in California and was a minority in all 3. I moved out of state and I was just like, "wow, look at all the white people". Weird experience ... maybe just a little bit like when Henry Cho talked about visiting Korea from Tennessee with his dad.
Trai-All@reddit
As a woman, I agree with you.
Reading the OP’s view of bigotry was interesting because I’ve spent most of my life stamping down my rage at the sexism I’ve experienced.
And while boomers were worse about it than GenX, GenX is worse than the generations that have followed us.
Violet2393@reddit
Yes, and I would say it's easy for those who weren't experiencing it to not be aware it was happening. I recently spoke to a friend from school who is Chinese and she told me about some really bad racism she experienced as a kid (like being disinvited from a birthday part when the kid's mom found out her race).
I never knew any of that was happening to her, because we were literal children so she didn't really have the language and knowledge to talk about it herself and she had a lot of shame about it that prevented her from talking about it as well.
meanteeth71@reddit
This!! All the people commenting about utopian California seem to forget that Black, Latino and Asian kids might have a mighty different take on
PavementBlues@reddit
And growing up in California in the '90s, every one of my queer circle was at some point violently assaulted by our classmates. What folks are seeing right now is that minority groups aren't being quiet about the indignities we suffer anymore.
Pinkbeans1@reddit
My husband is still anxious and lights candles to get rid of the smell when we have kimchi. Korean kids getting hell from teachers during class because they smell like garlic was a regular thing in the Bay Area.
No-Alternative8998@reddit
That’s super weird and I’m sorry he went through that! I don’t remember ever hearing this as a stereotype in the South Bay/East Bay, but there were plenty of others, unfortunately.
go_west_til_you_cant@reddit
This.
madogvelkor@reddit
I'm not Asian but I do remember the other white kids saying some things that were pretty racist. I'm not sure they fully understood how hurtful it could be though. The Asian kids were well liked at my school but people would still make stupid "kung fu" references or make karate moves and such. Plus some of the fetishizing of Asian girls, not that those guys actually got any girls of any race...
But there were a lot of Asian-White friend groups, while not very many White-Black friend groups. This was in Florida though, so a different culture than California.
Gourmeebar@reddit
White people are able to close their eyes and not see what we all experienced. Just because we didn’t hate all of them for how we were treated they think we didn’t experience racism. We experienced racism
SilverNo1051@reddit
I’m Asian Am, grew up in CA. So much racism, casual, overt, institutional
Redvelvet0103@reddit
Great point. Social media amplifies the worst among us (and worst in us). The most hateful and outrageous garner the most attention. Not because they exemplify our times but because they don’t
IMTrick@reddit
Man, I felt this post in my bones. I've asked myself the same thing plenty of times.
I, too, was a California kid, and my friends came in every color you might find in a Benneton ad (are they still around? I have no idea). I now live in Texas, and... well, sometimes that's been very challenging for me.
I got into a rather heated argument once with someone, trying to explain that, in the world I cam from, people were people, and nobody really cared if your skin color matched theirs. I remember being told "You're in the South now. It doesn't work that way here," and getting angrier than I ever recall being in the last 20 years or so.
Partially based on that, my feeling is that racism and bigotry are something I (and maybe you, too) were sheltered from. They've always been there, but growing up, we were typically only exposed to people with lives like ours, who lived in the same world we did. Now we've got the internet, where people who want to hate other people can find plenty of other people from places where that's how things work there. Hate's been democratized to an extent that wasn't possible before we were all connected with each other, and it's finding its way into places that used to be somewhat walled off from it.
TTgrrl@reddit
My dad was from Mississippi and was brought up very racist. Which is kinda weird considering he married my mother, a Korean. Though he was racist, I saw every person as a human being, worthy of kindness, and abhorred his racism. I rejected racism and still do to this day. Because children are raised by racist parents does not a racist child make. Each of us has a decision to make regarding what kind of person we will be.
MentallyStrongest@reddit
https://us.benetton.com/
Gourmeebar@reddit
When I was in the 8th grade the klan burned a cross in my friends yard in Torrance California. You ever hear of Latasha Harding. If you were black and in LA you would have. First time I saw someone get beat by cops I was in high school. Don’t fool yourself. You got to close your eyes to what your black friends were experiencing
Puglady25@reddit
This^^^^. In the 70's and 80's we were taught about the Civil rights movement in elementary school. We were probably the 1st generation to be taught this at that young age. I remember thinking this was something from the past, so we are all passed it. But that wasn't really true. It was the thing we didn't talk about. It was the thing whispered about and lurking in the distance. Race wasn't discussed, but how you dressed was, where you lived was, how you spoke, how you wore your hair. It was about how somre people didn't comply easily enough or had a chip on their shoulder. It was the unspeakable thing, and in my childhood I believed it wasn't there..... until I realized it was. It was in all the margins. The idea "skin color doesn't matter," isn't enough. Because in so many ways in our country it did matter. People "had ideas" (fears) about certain people because of "demographics." It was there. I also remember mixed trace couples being very rare when I was in elementary and only beginning to be accepted when I was in high school.
BIGepidural@reddit
We weren't accepted by everyone and a lot of people had a big problem with it even it didn't always manifest in outright violence.
Having people from your own race trying to talk you out of dating someone from a different one was constant. Many people felt entitled to share their beliefs and disgust and your romantic choices in partner once they got you on your own. The way they would speak about potential children being half breeds, outcasts and unwanted or unaccepted by either side was also common.
The sentiment "date them if want but don't have kids with them" was still strong in the 90s I assure you.
Puglady25@reddit
I am so sorry. That must have been tough. I do remember one of the "cool kids" at my school was mixed race. It was still rare in my school. He was very handsome and a super nice guy. I was in a city, so maybe it was a little more progressive than other places.
BIGepidural@reddit
It was tough; but we fought our way through it. Our son will be 24 and the end of the month 🥰
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
Ask Meghan Markle if mixed race relationships are fully accepted now.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
It was only about ten years ago that I overheard a black woman talking on the phone about how she had been disciplined at work because her hair wasn't professional enough. She was wearing box braids. My state banned discrimination based on hair types in 2020.
My current workplace emphasizes inclusivity. All employees, volunteers, and clients have to sign a paper that says we will immediately be dismissed if we display any kind of bigotry. Just a couple of weeks ago, one of my coworkers found out that it was strictly enforced when she told a few people that she thought our new supervisor had been promoted because she's black. Much of the population we work with is minority. We're supposed to be the good guys!
NipperAndZeusShow@reddit
80's non-racist: "I don't hate anybody. I just accept the reality that some people are different and it would be best for everyone if they go back to wherever they came from."
Gourmeebar@reddit
Yep. It was, “there’s just something about them.” That was untrustworthy, unworthy, suspicious, etc.
No-Win-2741@reddit
I know that name.
I was a rookie LAPD officer at that time.
Gourmeebar@reddit
Well than you definitely know how racists LA was then and is now
No-Win-2741@reddit
I don't live there any longer so I cannot speak to it now. I haven't lived there since the 90s, the late '90s. But yes, racism was rampant especially in the lapd. That's all I'm going to say about that.
BIGepidural@reddit
Well said 👏
Violet2393@reddit
Yep, I grew up in California and my experiences as a teen taught me why being "not racist" is not enough because racism is built into our systems.
These incidents opened my eyes to some things that weren't immediately apparent. Yes, my friend group was diverse in certain ways, but there was actually segregation happening on campus that was under the radar. There was a whole population of black and hispanic students (plus some lower income white students) who were branded upon entering high school as "vocational students" and segregated into classes that were focused on preparing them for blue collar and menial work with only the bare minimum focus on academic requirements, including "classes" where they just went to a minimum wage job for half the day. This was more of a class segregation, but it disproportionately affected the students of color.
These students were receiving a lesser education right from the start and weren't even given a chance to learn and see if they could perform at a higher level - they had already been written off. And they were very skillfully segregated and hidden from the rest of the school population, so we didn't even know it was a thing until the more overt racism incidents opened my eyes to the institutional racism that was happening around us.
Gourmeebar@reddit
Totally forgot about the fuckin nazis. I remember the times my parents kept me from school because the nazis were going to be on campus to start a riot. We didn’t need social media. Everybody knew these things were going to happen. I had tons of white friends. I don’t recall any conversations with them about it. Don’t remember any of them being fearful about it.
myfavhobby_sleep@reddit
RIP Latasha Harding
Gourmeebar@reddit
RIP indeed little sis. Her birthday was Jan 1.
IMTrick@reddit
I remember the Natasha Harlins thing, yeah. My grandmother lived right up the street from her, and I lived for quite some time in the same neighborhood (Westchester) where she went to high school.
I'm not saying racism didn't exist -- quite the opposite, really, if you look at what I wrote. What I am saying is that I didn't see much of it. It happened outside the circles and neighborhoods I hung out in (in Harlins's case, down the road a bit in an area that has been notorious for a really long time for tensions between the Korean and Black communities, which became even more well-known during the L.A. riots). I wouldn't dare to suggest issues didn't exist, but unlike today, racism and intolerance weren't something I experienced personally on a day-to-day basis, as a suburban white kid with a racially-diverse group of other middle-class suburban kids.
My point wasn't that racism and bigotry didn't exist when I was a kid, because clearly they did. It was more that all those little pocket of suburbia where you would never see it happening aren't as walled off from the ugliness as they used to be.
Gourmeebar@reddit
So absolutely interesting. I’ll give you three guesses why you didn’t see much of it. And, you lived in Baldwin Hills. I think you had to squeeze your eyes real tight if you lived there and didn’t see it. Nuts. And you’re going to keep qualifying how you feel despite people telling you that we didn’t get the luxury of living in a bubble: first it was a Cali thing, now it’s pockets of suburbia. When several people are telling you that you’re wrong, you keep pushing. This is why racism persists. You are part of the problem. A big part.
And while we are at it, it’s not the Reddit rage, it’s the rage of a white person telling us that our experience wasn’t that bad because you didn’t see it, “ in Californias little pockets of suburbia.”
Fun_Winner_376@reddit
Yeah, I had a PE class with Latasha in HS. She had some issues, but she definitely DID NOT deserve to get shot.
There was some racism at Westchester but like others have said, a lot of people had friends that overlapped and for the most part, people left others alone. We pretty much learned to respect each other’s differences and learned more cultural awareness than we would have if we had been in segregated silos.
Not going to say the there wasn’t a drive-by one summer school or the health teacher didn’t get stabbed in class, but if someone had started spouting hate, I’m pretty sure it would have been stopped pretty quick… one way or another.
Bird2525@reddit
Yep, 2 non white kids in my high school and they were both children of famous athletes. When I visited my family in the south there were definitely 2 sides of the tracks and they didn’t mix.
Alfie_ACNH@reddit
Thanks, just ordered some pants
Thewagon24@reddit
As a sixth generation Texan, now in living in Illinois. the vast majority of true Texans do not consider us to be in the south. We are too arrogant for that. Those that do, are some backward thinking Fs. I grew up in the 80s & 90s in DFW area. Yeah, there is some bigotry but no where near what people would think. I hung with whites, blacks, Hispanics, and Asian everyday. And we were absolutely brutal with each other and threw around a lot racist jokes on all sides, but you could always tell the ones that meant it. And those people were marked, and was exclusive to whites, but more whites than any other group.
But sadily, gays were harassed more than any others. By the time I left Texas in 2018, it had come a long way. While it wasn’t gone, not early as bad as it was.
Then I came to Illinois, and in my six years here, the amounts of racist and bigots I have run into here truly shocked me. Nearly 40 years in Texas vs 6 years here, the numbers closer than they should be.
IcebergSlimFast@reddit
I think you’re spot on here. Whenever I see someone making comments pining for a less racist and divisive past where “people were just people”, my question is: have you asked any of your current or former black and brown friends for their thoughts on and experiences with racism in the era you’re idealizing?
clh1nton@reddit
Absofuckinglutely this.
legal_bagel@reddit
I'm still in California and spent most of my life in Los Angeles, was in jr high during the 1992 riots and we were all sent home early.
My mother's family was from Arkansas. One summer her extended cousins who owned a catfish farm in Arkansas came to visit. Apparently, while on the Universal Studios tram, cousins couldn't keep their N word to themselves, in Los Angeles in ~1993, and my parents came back around saying they were terrified that they were going to get jumped (though I'm positive that they didn't call them out on their behavior because family or whatever.)
My parents were very much the type of racist non-racist people that would talk about "those people" and would never call out anyone for their comments.
My teen started high school in downtown where students were 95%+ Hispanic/Latino. His group of friends all said that he was the first white friend they have ever had and one keeps telling us that her dad is always asking about my son, the only white kid that's been around the family.
I think LA is still segregated whether by choice or the long-term effects of redlining.
Gourmeebar@reddit
Your parents are the racists racists type of people. Racists, non racists don’t exist. Non racists are offended when they experience racism whether the racism is directed at them or not. I bet if your racists family called your mom a bitch it wouldn’t have gottten swept under the rug
legal_bagel@reddit
If my mom was called a bitch it absolutely would have been swept under the rug because addressing it would upset the family.
Gourmeebar@reddit
I’m so sorry for u😂
Icy-Isopod-3114@reddit
Grew up in central California (Salinas) and at 18, moved to Arkansas. At that point I hadn't traveled beyond Hawaii and Mazatlan. As expected, experienced massive culture shock. Some memorable things I learned was there are yt churches and Black churches and, microaggressions are accepted daily otherwise it's a constant fight. When I first moved to Arkansas in 1992, people really wanted to identify my race. I'm ethnically ambiguous - depending on the time of year, hairstyle, and outfit, so the first few years I would randomly choose an ethnicity when asked.
Sonova_Bish@reddit
My mom and stepdad were like your parents. We were far, far, right evangelicals. By 1992, I was a freshman and already moving left. My mom told me to stay away from pretty much anyone who wasn't straight, white, people. So I started getting to know as many different types of people as possible. It was a small college town with thriving Mexican, Indian, Syrian, and Azorean Portuguese immigrant communities. There were lots of people to meet.
meanteeth71@reddit
I went to UC Berkeley with these supposed California kids who don’t care. This is a sunshine take.
We spent the late 80’s and early 90’s protesting the racism we were experiencing and the cool California (white) kids told us we didn’t know what we are talking about.
Cal was 8% Black when I went there 88-93. It’s now 3%. With the vast majority of Blackness coming from other countries. It’s 3% Chicano/Latino.
None of the multiculturalism or “who cares about race” makes it to the places that count politically or culturally.
iJuddles@reddit
Feel free to tell that person, “That’s just stupid,” and be prepared to walk away. I’m kidding, or half kidding. I don’t think it would hurt to challenge that position that “it’s different here” in a slow, constructive way. In what way does it work to keep people in their place and maintain a status quo that doesn’t apply anymore? It isn’t cultural, it’s archaic, at least as far as your CA experience dictates, and there’s nothing wrong with being at the forefront of cultural change. Hammering out some niche and staying there out of a sense of cultural identity doesn’t sit with growth and development on the macro or personal level.
As pointed out already we don’t have the luxury or excuse to remain isolated from the wildly diverse world anymore. Show me how “it doesn’t work that way here” actually works in this case so that we’re pulling up and not dragging down.
IMTrick@reddit
I'll be honest, in the case I'm talking about, I just shook my head and walked away fuming. Literally -- I took it as a good reason to go out for a smoke, even though I'd given it up at that point. Still had an emergency stash in the center console of my car, though, and it was an emergency. I was literally shaking and seriously doubting my life choices.
I got my revenge eventually, though. I married the guy's sister and in the last couple elections she's voted democrat.
iJuddles@reddit
Ha! Best revenge ever, and if he’d bothered broadening himself he’d have known that it’s best served cold. Here’s to hoping that he relaxed a little and realized you and your sicko, modern ways are not the enemy.
lookngbackinfrontome@reddit
NYer here. My social circle was and still is very diverse. It felt like we were making great strides in the race relations department during the 90s, but you're kidding yourself if you think any kind of "racial utopia" existed anywhere at the time. I still saw hatred and bigotry on a regular basis. The nice part was that fewer people were willing to tolerate it.
I don't think that has really changed. It just feels like we stopped moving forward in the right direction, thanks to the internet. We are now exposed to the fervent racism and hatred that has always existed in certain corners but wasn't in our faces like it is now. These attitudes and hateful beliefs are able to reach people more easily who otherwise wouldn't have been exposed to them. By the same token, the opposite is true. The idea of not being a racist asshat is reaching people it otherwise wouldn't have. It feels like we're slipping backward, but we're not. It's just that the fight has gone from our immediate surroundings to the entire web, and it's overwhelming. We need to remember that the only thing we really have control over is our immediate surroundings, and trust that there are good people everywhere fighting the good fight.
You might not be able to stop some internet personality from spewing hateful bullshit, but you can smack your brother, nephew, friend, or whoever upside the head if they start parroting that bullshit. Focus on what's immediately around you. If you feel like challenging assholes on the internet, then do so, but don't wear yourself out. Trust that there are people in the immediate vicinity of whoever is spewing hateful rhetoric who will deal with their bullshit in the proper way.
chrisbbehrens@reddit
No one in Texas calls Texas "The South".
IMTrick@reddit
Take it up with my brother-in-law.
Illustrious-Ratio213@reddit
California has lots of other stratifications besides race, gender and sex so at least its mostly stuff you can change and not based on things you can't.
Designer-Mirror-7995@reddit
Good Lord. The number of y'all who obviously, literally, lived in a bubble. There were still places I couldn't go in 'the Chicagoland area' way up into the 90s. There were (ARE??) still sundown towns until very recently. Bussing caused A LOT of racial struggle for those sent to "better" schools in the 70s - and a LOT of by bullying/fighting.
REDLINING WAS ABSOLUTELY STILL HAPPENING WHILE WE WERE GROWING INTO ADULTHOOD. "Herding" poor black communities into areas where they would not "disturb" the burb dwellers and nimbys happened DURING my young adulthood with the tearing down of "the projects" nationwide.
The FACT is that all the secret, unbelieved and ignored "little" ways we experienced racism boiled over when the racists lost their minds over Barack, so then "everybody" got to see what we'd BEEN SAYING FOR THE 3 DECADES BEFORE THAT was true: there's never been a "post racial" society here.
ja1c@reddit
From my perspective, I’d say yes, many of us white folks did grow up in a bubble, where everything seemed “fine” in our John Hughes-esque suburban neighborhoods because of, as you mention, redlining and all the other tactics that kept white people “safe” and other communities inequitably apart. I’m sad to say that I was ignorant AF (at least somewhat less than I am now) and thought having two or three black friends was “enough” and, damn, do I wish I had enough empathy then to understand the shit they had to deal with among all of us privileged white a-holes. Clueless then and mostly still clueless now. I know it doesn’t help, but I’m sorry you have to hear people still pretending that everything was and is okay.
Babyroo67@reddit
Did you hurt anybody? Nope. Let go of that white guilt, friend. It's not your burden to carry.
ja1c@reddit
You sound like some of the people I grew up with. I probably might have said the same thing once. The problem is that the burden of the past is carried into the future. That we expect others to carry the burden has long been the problem.
AnotherDoubtfulGuest@reddit
I just think it’s absurd for white people to tell anyone else what the status of race or racism is in America, because how would they know?
purposefullyblank@reddit
Seriously, I would love the perspective from the friends who “happened to be black” or who “happened to be gay.”
EchoesOfToast@reddit
Thank you.
Op racism existed in the 90s you just didn't see it.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
It's true. When I was a kid I lived in a working class suburban neighborhood where everyone knew everyone else. And every single one of us was white. At my high school, all the whites hung out with the whites and the blacks hung out with the blacks. No one was screaming the n word or spray painting swastikas on the walls but, looking back, it's obvious that the black students didn't feel like they were welcome to sit at the popular lunch tables. My younger sister's class had who I think was the first black valedictorian the school had ever had. Also notable was that she stayed in the closet until she was in college.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Yep. I'm from Philly. There were (still) neighborhoods I had to watch my back and front in and I'm a woman!! This Pollyanna approach to reality sickens me because it's not honest. When you can't even have honesty, you don't have progress.
charlottelight@reddit
Hey, I’m from Philly too, friend! (You replied to my comment upstream or maybe downstream)
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Hey! How are ya?
charlottelight@reddit
Love meeting a fellow Philly Gen-Xer!
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Cool! We had a time then, didn't we?
charlottelight@reddit
I’m pretty nostalgic for parts of it, definitely … between you & me (and everyone else here) the premise of this thread is one of the more asinine takes I’ve seen in awhile 🙄
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Whew! You're not kidding! Some get it and others refuse. It's sad to see.
Tsujigiri@reddit
The primary difference I see now is that back then we didn't talk about it at a national, and for many a personal level, which is why a lot of white folks have the OP's perception.
I see rhetoric like this from the conservative side of things. Many of them talk as if this is some old problem that was settled ages ago that progressives are digging up for drama. They simply don't realize that our countries troubles with racism have been there all along because they were informed by a narrow spectrum of inputs.
Babyroo67@reddit
I have a bit of a different perspective, but you're right about Chicago, then and now.
I grew up around Western Ave and Grand. There were neighborhoods within blocks that I dared not walk as a white kid. I could park on this side of the street, but not that side, etc. The black/mexican/rican kids were just as racist towards us (and each other) as we were to them. As a Polack, I was not allowed to play with Ukrainian kids. And they weren't allowed to play with us. We all openly hated each other.
"Racism" is hugely overblown now, and is used to poke groups while the elites fuck us all, and an excuse to cudgel whites. No racism exists in America today like it was even 50 years ago. Not even close. Just like we didn't grow up as racist as it was in the 1800s.
Fandango4Ever@reddit
Agree, 💯
ipenlyDefective@reddit
But Arsenio Hall was a top late night host, problem solved! /s
Seriously, when all the white kids started imitating black kids, and Cosby was the #1 show, many people thought it was over. I'm now of the opinion that racism will exist 1000 years from now.
SamMeowAdams@reddit
I couldn’t go to south Boston with my white girlfriend when I was young.
Now it’s all high end condos ! lol. 😆
AdObvious1217@reddit
I grew up in Los Angeles and worked at a bank in the 90s; we all had to do CRA [Community Reinvestment Act] training, even if we didn't work in home loans because the bank was constantly getting fines for redlining.
And I just read about a credit union getting fined for redlining last year.
Thorne628@reddit
Definitely not my experience in the South. High school in the 90's, at my school, people were in cliques. There was a lot of segregation among people of different ethnicities, by choice. There was pique racial tension at my school when the LA Riots were going on-multiple fights in a day. And rampant homophobia, which I personally experienced as well as others in my school. One boy got jumped and wound up in the hospital because a group of bullies thought he was gay. You also got bullied if you were poor and could not afford to wear whatever was fashionable at the moment.
I think one positive difference back then is that we did not talk politics. My parents did not talk politics with their friends. We were not ruled by the fear-mongering 24-hour news cycle. We were out living life. It is silly, but I kind of wish we could go back to the day of pagers, dia[-up internet, and My Space. We had some technology then, for the time, but we were not ruled by it.
UpstairsCommittee894@reddit
I think there was more of a class type thing going on than a race thing. There were rich kids, jocks, punks, stoners, etc. The thing is, your cliques could overlap. Now it seems like there are hardcore lines dividing everyone, and if you don't, 100% completely agree you are wrong and ostracized.
AJourneyer@reddit
You are so right. I was "nerd" and stoner (we used the term "heads" - I know, weird combo) who ended up hanging out with the punkers because I was dating one, then the next year hung with the jocks because I was dating one of those. None of the other categories mattered in my little world in the moment.
TTgrrl@reddit
LOL this brought back memories! I moved from a small town to a big city my freshman year, and boy was it a shock!! From jocks to freaks (stoners/long haired boys 😍), ROTCs, cowboys, cholos, nerds, drama… there may have been more.
RemoteSpecialist3523@reddit
I was likely more of a "skid" (weeder/punk/skateboard and a bit of nerd). In the midst of my stoner years, I had surprising respect for things like public health officers ( that was the nerd)
My kid was also essentially a skid. She maintained they were the most accepting vs jocks, preppies ( normies) etc. Pretty much anyone could hang with the skids which was not the case the other way around.
One thing that continues to amaze me - when did death threats become so casual. I seem to recall uttering threats was a crime, not it seems to be the default. I tend to keep my thoughts to myself for fear of unleashing the internet dog pile of death and rape threats.
Amethyst-M2025@reddit
Definitely have been a nerd my whole life too. I was a book and sci fi/fantasy nerd before computers.
AJourneyer@reddit
I like to say I'm older than ST:TOS and was raised on it. My dad was a huge fan. Mum? yeah - not so much.
Amethyst-M2025@reddit
I fell in love with TOS when it was reruns in the early 80’s. TNG wasn’t on yet.
Stephen_California@reddit
Punks. Just Punks not punkers Naminisayin
AJourneyer@reddit
Ah, for us the 'punks' were 'punkers'.
Punks were heads (aka stoners, but also punks and thugs)
BeerWench13TheOrig@reddit
I was a nerd and a jock (and a rich kid according to my neighborhood friends because I went to a private school). Then my best friend went punk and later I started dating a stoner and fit right in with both of those groups as well. I think if you had an “in”, you were in, as long as you went with the flow.
edWORD27@reddit
Not bad for a nerd! 👍
Glum-One2514@reddit
Dated two different girls? He's no nerd.
AJourneyer@reddit
Actually, I'm a she lol
And still a nerd
DeeRexBox@reddit
Correct. You cant be middle of the road anymore. You're with us, or against us. Nobody is free to live in the grey anymore, and its "offensive" if you do. Both sides of any argument try to make you feel like scum for not agreeing with them, rather than just accepting it. Thus, pushing you further to the side of whatever argument you're already on. It's so freaking stupid. Hell, the politicians and news encourage us to behave that way.
BudFox_LA@reddit
What I find most amusing is the high of mind of parrots that are in a race to be the most offended on behalf of some supposedly marginalized social group that they have absolutely nothing in common with. All of this in an attempt to virtue signal online and come off like they are good, caring people. People are just totally lame now.
claude3rd@reddit
Saying"unalived" is a social media thing. They can't say killed or suicide because then their content may get demonitized. In their content-creator economy they cannot afford to be demonitized.
BudFox_LA@reddit
right, but it's a ton of people in a certain age bracket, not all of which are creators, or creators that make any money
Sea-Environment-7102@reddit
I mean we don't give a f*** so we stay in the gray
Admissionslottery@reddit
Hard to be ‘middle of the road’ on issues like racism and misogyny. No idea what you mean. Middle of the road on which current issues?
RemoteSpecialist3523@reddit
Covid, taxes, social supports, crime and punishment, mental health, health care, housing, really the list goes on and on. All of these have gray areas, nuance and complexity and require considerable thought and discussion and pragmatism.
Our media and government are now reducing these things to slogans and cookie cutter ( not fully thought out ) solutions. It is how they make money and how they get elected - divide and conquer. again, the media makes money from rage/outrage, it does not matter where it comes from, it all makes them money. This is illustrated by the increasing use of right and left to put people in tribes to facilitate conflict, anger and rage.
Agreed, racism is not nuanced, nor misogyny or homophobia. I tossed a couple of childhood friends not long ago for being rather racist and homophobic. Funny thing is, I had know them going on 40 years and for 38 of those years they were chill. Suddenly they are down the rabbit hole of conspiracies and well racism, homophobia - I am pretty sure they would be nattering at me about abortion as they either of them had ever given two fucks about the issue.
Sad days
RemoteSpecialist3523@reddit
The corporations and media have found there is good money in division. Fuck the gray areas and nuance - those cost money and don't get the clicks. Keep it short, black and white = choose a side, we don't care which one they all make us money, but pick a side and be outraged, we will farm that, fan the flames so we can get more money.
I am often sad, what shitty things people will do for money...
Gourmeebar@reddit
So your problem is that people have a problem that you just sit silent as people are victimized by racism. Tha fuck.
Successful_Sense_742@reddit
I guess I fall into the metal head clique. We kinda got along with everyone. In high school, we had rich kids that hung out with the metal heads. We had metal heads that played sports. The Breakfast Club was a great movie depicting the cliques. A horror movie "The Faculty" had character Gavin point out the different "tribes" to the New Kid. Beware of the Blue Ribbons though if you seen the movie, you'd know.
meanteeth71@reddit
Did you have Black, Latino and Asian kids in your clique?
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
I did. All of the above. We were all in art classes with the same teacher. One of the guys in our clique was Filipino and also a skinhead. He was just into the style, not the philosophy.
meanteeth71@reddit
Ordinarily I wouldn't think it would be important to point that out, but because the thread is about racism, I was reading all of the above wondering about the diversity of the clique. Thanks for clarifying!
SubstantialPressure3@reddit
You don't often see Filipino skinheads. That's why I thought it was worth mentioning. He did the whole thing. Docs, skinny braces ( Suspenders), bomber jacket, white undershirt showing, head always shaved clean or barely any stubble. But we were a mixed group to begin with.
Sea-Environment-7102@reddit
I lived in the very deep south in Alabama and it was the same. Our cliques were based on what we did or how we did it versus race. Nerds, bowheads, jocks, potheads, punks. There was a crossover between punks and nerds. It seemed like the smartest people were punks.
Successful_Sense_742@reddit
We never had a skin head clique thank God. That would been a problem with metal heads, punks, and the hip hop tribes.
Successful_Sense_742@reddit
Yes we did. Not many Asians in the school though.
SpokaneSmash@reddit
I did. Granted, most of the metalheads were white, but so was most of the town I was in. The metalheads were full of the rejects of society, and accepted anybody else who was an outcast, too. Sometimes just to piss off the man. Tell me I shouldn't hang out with them? I'm going to hang out with them even harder!
RemoteSpecialist3523@reddit
Our definition as you describe was skids- metal heads ( weeders ) skate punks - my kid was that way as well and maintained they were the most accepting group.
Successful_Sense_742@reddit
Skid row kids yup! We were Skids! Smoked weed behind the school (no cafeteria lunch) with every tribe. We didn't care. We were the new hippies on a different level. Smoke weed, skip class to drink beer. We actually drew in the preppy tribes. We never judged because we "hated" our boomer parents. (We never really hated them. Just didn't like their ideas) I haven't heard that term in years and forgot about that until you brought it up. I wasn't a skater, but was hardcore BMX.
Boatokamis@reddit
Actually it was Disturbing Behavior. I love that flick and it was a good representation of the division of cliques.
Successful_Sense_742@reddit
that's the movie!!!!! I got the title mixed up since I haven't seen both movies in a minute. Faculty was Aliens. Disturbing Behavior was mind control, kinda like Clockwork Orange. Thanks for clarification.
bhyellow@reddit
That’s not his point though.
RazorJ@reddit
I agree.
But, I think what region you’re in has a lot to do with it as well. Obviously I don’t think everyone is racist and hateful. But what OP is referring to very true here in the south where I live, but IMO it started a long time ago.
I still remember a Chamber of Commerce Wed morning coffee event the day after President Obama won. That’s when it changed for me. I was a younger professional and the things that we said to me, the things I overheard that morning, was pure evil, it hurt. When you look like a big “good ole boy” like me the stuff that gets said to me by people who think I think I have the same view as them is surprisingly jarring. I went back to my office broke down, all that emotion went right into my trashcan under my desk. People I admired, childhood friend’s, friend’s parents, community business leaders, it was turning point into what OP described, and has progressively just gotten worse at an exponential rate partly aided by this technological revolution we’re experiencing.
izabitz@reddit
I feel this. I am also very white in appearance and have similarly lost respect for so many because they are now emboldened to speak out. I am glad that I am now able to see them for who they always were. We didn't have anything figured out, it was just more hidden from those of us with the privilege to ignore it. It was never better for those without that privilege.
arcinva@reddit
I have to wonder if, in the '80s and '90s, we as a society were still close enough to the accomplishments of the civil rights movement and women's lib, that there was an appreciation for how much things had improved. Then, as we've moved further away from that... when that improvement became status quo... we were able to start looking at the problems that still remained. We could recognize that while, yes, things were better for women and minorities in 1990 than they were in 1950, better doesn't necessarily mean good or that more improvements don't need to be made. So a push for more progress followed.
And I think that's awesome! Though, I do agree with what someone else said about the black & white thinking being a problem. There is no allowance for nuance in. And perfection is expected of people. There is also no benefit or the doubt given if a mistake happens; the worst is always assumed.
Another problem I see is that people are expected to agree or disagree across all issues. We long ago stopped being able to, e.g. be fiscally conservative and socially liberal, or what-have-you. You've gotta be onboard for the entire platform of one side or the other.
The last problem I see is acceptance or even encouragement of dissenting ideas. There was a time when, especially in a place like college, people might be purposefully confronted with challenging or even straight-up wild ideas that pushed us to really dive deep and think about things. But now so often there becomes one precise view to you must accept completely and God help you if you dare even ask a question about it. So that it feels like (note: I say feel, I am not stating this as fact) people go to university to be taught the prevailing opinion of the time rather than learning about the entire gamut of thought so that they are empowered to make their own choice.
HighBiased@reddit
Yah it was more nerds vs jocks, stoners v jocks... everybody v jocks
gilbert10ba@reddit
Well the government needed more ways to slice and dice society so people don't realise who's screwing everyone. So they brought back racial and sexual orientation division and took both to the extreme. Especially in the USA.
Pre3Chorded@reddit
Which class did Rodney King belong to in your opinion?
Elfnotdawg@reddit
The class of people that deserve to get beaten bloody because they led police on a high speed chase endangering literally thousands of lives in the process. You run from the cops, you deserve everything you get. I don't care if you're white, black, yellow, red, green, gay, straight, or alien from the dimension hoobastank. You run from the cops, you get what you get.
meanteeth71@reddit
They deserve to get beaten for not stopping? If that’s true Denny deserves to get beaten FOR stopping.
Two wrongs totally make a right. Why won’t you just comply! Stop resisting!
Elfnotdawg@reddit
Denny definitely shouldn't have stopped. If people are illegally blocking your way deliberately, you drive through them.
King was a felon, driving drunk while on parole (another felony), running from the police for 8 miles reaching speeds greater than 115mph at times. He should have been beaten worse.
meanteeth71@reddit
That’s really ugly. So you don’t believe in the Constitution? Or just believe some people are more equal than others?
Elfnotdawg@reddit
The entire premise of your comment is disingenuous. You're still operating from the false pretense that endangering thousands of lives deliberately because one doesn't want to go to prison isn't fundamentally terrible.
If you are actively committing violent felonies, you deserve exactly none of the rights afforded to the law avoiding citizens of this country. When you make the decision to do so, everything you hold dear up to and including your life is forfeit.
meanteeth71@reddit
It's genuine. I actually mean it. What you're saying is vile and is also unconstitutional.
Cheers.
Bloody_Mabel@reddit
I'm sure I will be downvoted to oblivion for this comment, and I do not like to be confrontational, but I feel that your comment is really myopic.
Firstly, authority figures and those wanting respect should always lead by example and NEVER succumb to their baser instincts. Violence begets violence.
As for running from police, I do not understand why a black person might run from police. However, I recognize that this lack of understanding comes from a position of white privilege: I've never been, nor do I know anyone who has been nearly beaten to death by police.
I suspect many black people cannot make the same claim.
Maybe white people should try putting ourselves in a black person's shoes before making broad and generalized statements.
Pre3Chorded@reddit
Fair, If only black people were being beaten by cops after high speed chases in the 1990's and white people just got arrested and processed legally would that be racism or some other technical reason?
Elfnotdawg@reddit
I don't deal in hypotheticals. It's just a way to move the goalposts and I don't indulge. What I'll tell you is everyone that I know who ran from the cops and got caught in the process got the shit kicked out them, and they deserved it every time. Not one of them were black, and the black people I know always stopped for the police and never got beat by them regardless of why they were stopped. So take from that what you will.
RattledMind@reddit
Let's use OJ Simpson as an example. Black, but a different class. He led people on a low-speed chase and in the end, wasn't beaten.
It's possible for both instances to be true and exist at the same time. Rodney King was beaten because of race. OJ Simpson wasn't because of class.
CelebrationOk7819@reddit
Stoner here, lived in a huge mixed Part of town. We all smoked together, dated each other, fought each other, drank together... it was all good. I moved to another city and it was the same..
VancityXen@reddit
I agree, its a ra<ism thing but I don't know if its gotten worse or people are just airing their true natures. Social media has become a cesspool of ra<ism because its an echo chamber of divisive types. I've on average experienced a ra<ial slur or offense of some type every other day all my life so from my pov people just aren't hiding it anymore. A person who isn't a poc, or is white passing would say its a class / economics thing because they can't understand what being ra<ialized is. It's one side of the same block. People are being oppressed for different reasons but are believing the propaganda about "its (insert a group)'s fault". Also, at that point in time there weren't multimillionaires and billionaires everywhere you looked. Basically, same 💩different pile.
twistedivy@reddit
Cue the Ferris Bueller clip…
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Here's that "It was class" argument. No. It was racism and bigotry. Why is saying it so hard? I attended a high school where everyone was essentially the same class.
So, where's the class argument?
Gourmeebar@reddit
No. My father was a lawyer and my uncle was the first black mayor of Los Angeles. It was. If it was about class than it was about class and race. The gaslighting is real
Rattlehead71@reddit
Interesting observation and I think you're right.
RoadGlideWanderer@reddit
I agree with this!!!
flyfishingguy@reddit
You better, or you're out!
ZyxDarkshine@reddit
SeismicFrog@reddit
Can you describe the ruckus?
BeerWench13TheOrig@reddit
If I had enough karma, I’d give you an award. This is completely accurate in my experience. Here. 🏆
omegamun@reddit
My friends and I used to say that it was like a sitcom crossover episode when we intermingled our various friend groups. Oftentimes hilarity ensued, but sometimes fights, but we’d all make up by the end and get along.
Cranks_No_Start@reddit
> if you don't, 100% completely agree you are wrong and ostracized.
my way or the highway no in between.
RadTherapist77@reddit
I agree with this. I had my circle of friends in HS but hung out and went to parties with people from every clique.
Electronic-Bid4135@reddit
EXACTLY right. But even back then we were kinder to each other and loved our country.
meanteeth71@reddit
Yet not one person has talked about the many races that were in their clique. Just what the clique was. Huge disconnect.
Quick_Discipline_432@reddit
Yes! Where i grew up at least, the punks and the black community definitely overlapped. Punk and rap artist would open for one another. A lot of commingling going on.
meanteeth71@reddit
Did you have a lot of Black, Latino and Asian friends in any of theses cliques?
ForgedNFrayed@reddit
Been that way since at least Reagan. Class warfare.
FormerlyUndecidable@reddit
I liked the wierd arbitrary identities we came up with. They were so low-stakes.
Fectiver_Undercroft@reddit
I had the sense that those cliques hard harder divisions before the 90s than I experienced. Went with the rest of what OP said. Did I watch too many youth targeted classic movies or was it a common experience?
movingmouth@reddit
Is a bonkers take. Class, yes. But also, definitely racism, homophobia, etc.
Primary-Wing-8234@reddit
Clock it.
Best thing I’ve read.
BosPatriot71@reddit
Spot on!
mediaogre@reddit
I’ll probably get downvoted into a singularity for this, but I think it’s a symptom of our highly polarized and politicized anti-culture. The far right’s previously mostly inner voice has been validated snd normalized by the wet bag of oats who speaks and amplifies their language of intolerance and now they have a safe space to spread their hate.
LocationTechnical862@reddit
In a couple of days he will be the most powerful person on earth.
mediaogre@reddit
It’s like letting a toddler with a paint ball gun loose in an art gallery.
keq1381@reddit
This comment made me think of the people throwing soup or even cutting up paintings.
Cross_22@reddit
Are you really saying people have become more racist nowadays rather than less?
To me it looks like that part of the spectrum has always been around, but is being kept in check more than say in the 90s. Meanwhile we have more people from the far left using their online megaphones for intolerance than in the past.
mediaogre@reddit
No. I’m saying it was always there under the surface and now that it’s becoming normalized by the right’s rhetoric, we’re seeing and hearing it more.
Gourmeebar@reddit
More than what? You mean white people are hearing it and seeing it more?
And while I’m on it, for black people this is not politics. This is about our humanity and the racist system is held up by white people, party be damned.
Im_tracer_bullet@reddit
'we have more people from the far left using their online megaphones for intolerance'
First of all, there is practically zero presence from anything resembling the 'far left' in the US electorate, or the government.
Second, normal and rational people challenging nonsensical assertions being propagated by the right-wing infotainment machine, or trying to ensure minority groups don't get demonized for existing, isn't 'intolerance'.
mediaogre@reddit
Exactly. It’s called finally having viable platforms for calling out generally shitty and anti-humanitarian behavior. When the right counters, they concoct these gaslighting, bastardized movements born of false equivalencies like “all lives matter” and “blue lives matter.”
Cross_22@reddit
That's exactly what I am talking about. "My intolerance is the good and noble kind - everybody else needs to shut up and if they don't I will make them!" usually followed by quoting Popper out of context.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
Challenging people for using the n word or saying gay people are pedophiles is perfectly good "intolerance." Freedom of speech does not mean anyone has to listen to you, and it also means that everyone else is free to respond to you and share their views about what you've said.
GreatJustF8ckinGreat@reddit
1990s were peak civilization
Awkward_Double_8181@reddit
I’m African American and I’m also GenX. I agree with you that race relations were so much better back then and it really did seem we were on our way to a better America. I feel like the election of Barack Obama is when we started going backwards. The racists of this nation really threw a hissy and after two terms with a Black President, they were told they were the “forgotten” by Republicans which made the racial divide even worse. They were ready for the complete opposite of Obama and they got it. I am shocked that this is where we are right now. My kids are growing up so differently than I did. They discuss race a whole lot more than we ever did in the 90’s.
TTgrrl@reddit
I think a certain POTUS that was elected to bring ‘change’ certainly brought it, but not in the way anyone was expecting. He broadened and exacerbated any racial divisions that were, and has created additional divisions, and it has been a nightmare ever since. We’re all humans. That’s that.
eddieesks@reddit
These extremism left wing policies and mentality has done nothing but increase division, hatred and racism and sexism. The majority of the people didn’t even think about it. Now it’s shoved down your throat every time you do anything. Even the minorities are sick and tired of it. Half the time it’s patronizing, and most of the time, it’s not genuine, and just a PR move. And now instead of let’s say seeing a woman on espn and not batting an eye at it, now in the back of your head you’re like, “think that’s a quota hire?” Because there is no doubt that the hiring process was, “it has to be a woman, or a man of colour and that’s all we care about because we are a heartless corporation that only cares about money and good PR. “
Blossom73@reddit
Seems like a you problem, that anytime you see a woman working in a male dominated field or a minority in a white dominated field, that you immediately assume they're a "quota hire". Really gross.
eddieesks@reddit
Never crossed my mind until I started seeing job postings that would “give preferential treatment to persons of underrepresented sex or race on the basis of equality”. Honestly been alive for a long time and it never occurred to me to discriminate based on sex and race but here we are.
Blossom73@reddit
So, your assumption is any woman or black person who gets a job is unqualified and undeserving? But you're not racist, right?
eddieesks@reddit
Nope never crossed my mind until society started cramming down our throats that in order to be a fair and equal society, we had to use racism and sexism to fill quotas in a company’s hiring process. And if you don’t think that’s happening I’d suggest you wake up to the realities of the world a bit. Because that’s exactly what goes on in those board rooms. We need x amount of women and x amount of minorities in this company. It isn’t a genuine attempt at equality, it’s veiled racism and sexism to fill a quota on a CEO’s sheet so they can look good in the media. These company’s don’t give a shit really. They just want a good headline.
eddieesks@reddit
This kind of stuff never used to happen. That’s my point. There was never a hiring process that tried to fill a number on a board rooms checklist. People have never been more racist and sexist because the very thought of it is being crammed down our throats 500 times a day. Everyone of every race is tired of being labelled a victim or an oppressor constantly. In the 80’s and 90’s nobody gave a shit what colour you were. We all just hung out. Nobody talked about it, nobody even thought about it. Everyone just existed and had fun together.
Blossom73@reddit
So, so very wrong, and quite frankly, insulting.
There's never been some magical time in American history when race and gender were irrelevant, and racism didn't exist. We're a country founded on the genocide of indigenous peoples and centuries of enslavement of Africans and African Americans.
I started dating my black husband in the 90s. It wasn't easy being an interracial couple. It still isn't.
Talking about racism causes racism is an insane take. As is your victim blaming. "If only black people and women shut up and pretended everything is fine, I wouldn't be racist and sexist!". Wow.
keq1381@reddit
This TED Talk is how I think the GenX community views this issue - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxB3b7fxMEA
no-long-boards@reddit
I’m from Canada and agree with your sentiment. I thought we were over all this shit.
LionNwntr@reddit
That’s it exactly. I had friends of different ethnicities and even different sexual preferences. I was the black dude and none of us cared. If you was cool with me, I was cool with you. End of story.
CharmingDagger@reddit
Probably depended a lot on where you grew up and the people you grew up with. I grew up in a relatively rural area and the racism and homophobia were widespread.
Oblio-616@reddit
Divided people are easier to rule
New_Guava3601@reddit
The division was not an accident. They keep us fighting over social issues while they have their hands in our pockets.
Tardisgoesfast@reddit
Bingo!
MusicSavesSouls@reddit
Divide and conquer
Pinkysrage@reddit
Yes, I’ve always called it management by chaos.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Indeed!
Designer-Mirror-7995@reddit
This country STARTED OFF "divided".
NipperAndZeusShow@reddit
What? Three-fifths of a person, five-fifths of a person, we all had the same denominator
moldy_fruitcake2@reddit
🎯
Successful_Base_2281@reddit
I dunno.
I don’t think the government did this. I think that “frictionless” communication systems like Twitter and Reddit did more to make this happen.
When you can just give in to your impulses and react emotionally, then you are obviously more likely to do so then when you cannot.
If Twitter or Reddit responses were delayed by three days, maybe we’d have better outcomes.
Gourmeebar@reddit
You think Twitter and Reddit and the like created division? Please, take time to educate yourself so you don’t have to rely on what you think; you can rely on facts.
OperationPlus52@reddit
They're not necessarily saying it's the government doing it, it's definitely the American and Global Right Wing/Wealthy Right Wing supporters/media owners causing these divisions purposefully.
Perhaps divide and conquer is their goal, perhaps it's just Hanlon's razor in effect where they are blundering into divide and conquer due to their ignorance and bigotry, but whatever it is it feels like they're winning rn.
Kirby_The_Dog@reddit
bingo
Boracraze@reddit
This. Exactly.
YogaSkydiver@reddit
This
anonymaus74@reddit
It all depends on where you grew up and your environment. My mother was very homophobic, and I’m ashamed to say that I carried those thoughts into the early 90s. On the flip side, I grew up in literally the whitest state in the US, my grandmother was super duper racist, when I was 17 (91) my mother married a black man so I lost any racism pretty quick
bettesue@reddit
Maybe you think things were better, but you might not be the best judge.
Boomerang_comeback@reddit
100% agree. 90s and early 2000s were very different. It all went down hill after that.
baphostopheles@reddit
CA isn't the rest of the country. I live there now, but I assure that the situation was not the same in the 90s in the midwest. Also, it's great that you and your friends were an inclusive group, but the 90s was also the pinnacle of "tough on crime" legislation that disproportionally affected low income minority communities. Same-sex naughty time was still illegal in 14 states until the Lawrence vs Texas ruling in 2003, and a lot of the other states' laws weren't repealed or struck until well into the 90s.
I mean. The crack epidemic? Rodney King? Stop and frisk laws? Broken windows policing? The continued fallout of redlining in the 60s?
Available_Year_575@reddit
Agreed and I think this all the time
toqer@reddit
Nail on the head.
I like to make the point that in the 80's we had a Black doctor family on TV. We had a Chicano Highway Patrolman. A Japanese man was teaching a white kid from Jersey Karate so he could overcome his bullies. We had a black and a white cop fighting crime in Miami.
It was the educational system.
I had a group of friends about 6 years younger than me, all POC. (They would have been HS grads between 96-98) Suddenly all at once, they started circling their wagons and blaming their problems on things like systemic racism. Mind you, we live in the SF Bay area... There's not really much of that holding people back here. Still though, they saw working a 9-5 as giving up, and kowtowing to "The Man"
My older friends that were my age didn't go through this, and we're pretty diverse. The young ones though.. If I had to point at a single catalyst for a return to this type of self defeating groupthink, I'd have to point at the Rodney King riots. It really welled up some deep seeded old wounds. It also put Asians in the spotlight as "model citizens" because of the rooftop Koreans.
We regressed. It sucked. We regressed even further with other issues. I just hope we can return to sanity soon.
SmallBarnacle1103@reddit
I agree with your assessment. I grew up poor so race was a very minor issue. It is a recent ideology to define people into so many sub groups. On 9/12/01 we were all very American.
DGenerAsianX@reddit
We didn’t have universal access to the internet to spread hate. You had to do it in person and then there were consequences to being hateful face to face. And then with the universal access to social media and smartphones, everyone now had the ability to be hateful anywhere and anytime to anyone.
Human nature is human nature. We just never had the technology to instantaneously communicate our worst impulses globally to a mass audience before. If we had, you’d have seen what we’re seeing now. People are people. We didn’t get a magical reprieve from that.
SuperAleste@reddit
Agreed. Safety behind a screen has a huge impact on this type of thing.
Nynydancer@reddit
Yes. I remember when things started getting wierd on the internet and really crazy language started becoming normal. I remember two moments in particular when I thought whoa this ain’t cool. And here we are :(
Accomplished_Band198@reddit
I remember going to my first internet/gaming cafe around 2005 people were saying LOL out loud which was the strangest thing to me. Now its the norm.
OrganizationPutrid68@reddit
Reminds me of a situation when I was studying computer science at SUNY Plattsburgh in the mid-nineties. I was on a terminal connected to the campus mainframe, writing code for an assignment when someone started sending me harassing messages. He apparently thought he was untraceable. He didn't know he was playing games with a computer science major who was working on a logging crew at 13 and was currently paying tuition by working part-time as a heavy truck and equipment mechanic. I was in a lab in the library basement, and with a few keystrokes, I knew he was in a small lab in the upper floor of the library and which terminal he was on. I had a friend keep him busy while I took a walk. This joker was sitting at the terminal with a couple of girls. They were having a gigglefest until I walked up and stood next to him. When he asked me what I wanted, I introduced myself by my process name and politely invited him to accompany me outside if he had an issue with me. I had never seen a person physically shrink before.
mac_attack4000@reddit
^^^THIS!!!^^^
meanteeth71@reddit
It wasn’t better in the 90’s. White people just didn’t say what they were thinking to us… instead we had a whole other set of trials and tribulations. No one seems to actually address the original question. You really think racism was sorted on the 90’s?
OriginalsDogs@reddit
Not all white people think the way you think we think. My friend group included and still includes people of all different shades and cultures. Life would be so boring if we were all the same.
I went to a magnet (gifted) high school in Hyde Park in Chicago. Hyde Park is where President Obama lived. It was a wonderfully integrated neighborhood, and if someone had a problem with someone else is almost never had anything to do with their race. And yeah, my metal head clique had blacks and Asians and Hispanics too.
I don't understand the mind that says all of x group are bad because they think all of my group are bad. Honestly there are so many people caught between the warring sides who just want to live our lives, together.
meanteeth71@reddit
To clarify-- I don't need a "not all white people" explanation. Please understand I mean that as a generic rubric because I am a minority. I know that there are good, not racist white people. I am talking about the people who seem to think that just saying vile shit to Black people whenever, however, wherever, is not just because of the internet.
I am a little taken aback at your reply . . . I wasn't attacking you/white people. I was asking a genuine question.
PS. I was born in Chicago, my father is from the North Side and my mother lived in Hyde Park during her 7 years living there. They met in the Black Panther Party. Do you know who Fred Hampton and, of course Bobby Rush, the only person to beat Barack Obama in an election? Do you know anything about the Original Rainbow Coalition? That's what my dad was working on with Cha Cha Jimenez, who just died. My mother fundraised the money for free breakfast, free clinics, and free clothing. The greatest value I learned from them is the importance of diversity. Really glad you got that as your context, as well.
You went to the HS I would have gone to, had we stayed there instead of moving to Washington, DC, where my mother is from. I went to a magnet HS here. Went to UC Berkeley from there.
OriginalsDogs@reddit
My childhood phone number was one number off from The Rainbow Coalition phone number. We were constantly getting calls for Reverend Jackson. So yes, I'm familiar with him, and all of the others you mentioned. I apologize. My kid came home from school the other day telling me that he was racist, which for sure shocked me cause this kid has never met a person he didn't love! I asked him why he thought that and he said because his ancestors owned slaves. I informed him his ancestors were poor Irish, Scottish, and Polish immigrants who weren't slaves but weren't treated very kindly either. They definitely never owned slaves, they barely had enough money to feed their families. I guess I'm a little touchy after that.
I grew up in McKinley Park, which was at the time a largely Hispanic neighborhood. I rode the CTA to Hyde Park and enjoyed laughing at the people who would gasp when I told them I waited for the bus on 47th and Cottage Grove with my friends! The older generation was really bad, maybe some of the Hyde Park vibe rubbed off on me. I remember walking to go to the museum for field trips,and when the Malcom X movie came out we walked to go see that too.
DGenerAsianX@reddit
Not even a little bit.
meanteeth71@reddit
White people are actually more hateful face to face than most people realize.
It’s amazing to me how many white people are weighing in with their utopian reminiscences without thinking about who was in their friend groups.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
It's the amnesia. It's acting like we were some big Breakfast Club clique. Ha! No.
SarcastiChic@reddit
Even when we had access to the internet we still didn't have an issue until the MSM started showing race as a division
SpringtimeAmbivert@reddit
completely agree and, if someone is week minded or in a bad mental state, the internet is a great place to find people with extreme opinions to follow & latch onto.
I think people who are ‘looking for something’ aren’t quickly latching onto a middle-of-the-road type person who gets along with people and is just living life.
Redvelvet0103@reddit
Nailed it… social media, lightning speed of information have led to a natural degradation of decorum. People are at once more connected and isolated than ever. It’s really not surprising we should be in the midst of political, social and economic upheaval.
ruka_k_wiremu@reddit
Glad you mentioned those cultural indicators...the 'chief' of which drives the other two imo, and thus the greatest culprit to our ills: economic (parity)
Icy-Ninja-6504@reddit
Great post. People dont even realize it, they think they've, "evolved." Yeah, ok, lol.
toblies@reddit
Yeah, i think you've put your finger on something here. The Algorithms are always happy to feed you whatbyoure looking for. It's incredibly polarizing.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
It's sad that the thing that gives us nearly unlimited access to knowledge also fosters the worst parts of humanity
memory0leak@reddit
Though internet anonymity existed in 90s it was somewhat esoteric. Now it is easily accessible everywhere even without having to try.
Once young adults start learning to communicate with others in this hate-filled cauldron, it takes a significant strength of character to get out of it.
We have free online universities (meta, x,..) that are assiduously educating every incoming generation in toxicity and giving them notoriety based on how well they do.
I hope something changes for the better though it is very faint hope.
habu-sr71@reddit
Yes. We are instinctually and constantly seeking to form some sort of group connections and figuring out how we are similar and belong. This sub is just another example. And the entire "generation groups" concept is as well.
It's what we do, It's what primates and pack animals do. And as you say, this technology, despite and because of how powerful it is, has created intellectual space for so many different interest groups including ones that are aggressively and toxically opposed to "the other".
Even the most progressive groups that preach inclusiveness for all always have a visceral response to people that don't think or say the correct things. The whole "intolerant about intolerant people" thing, if you will.
I hope I didn't say anything offensive here. Your post resonated with me and I'm basically agreeing with you.
Which makes me sad because it acknowledges that we are pretty shitty animals. And this new administration is going to do anything structurally to make the average person's life any better and it just feel like a bunch of powerful bullies with their greed based ideologies running rampant. It scares and saddens me. Anyway...now I got too political too.
Best!
DGenerAsianX@reddit
You are always free to express yourself any way you see fit. You can’t keep it inside all the time. Especially now.
Gourmeebar@reddit
As long as everyone knows there are consequences to your expressions.
PlantationCane@reddit
Very inciteful. I never thought about the civility in person vs online when it comes to racism and bigotry.
That being said it was does expose what Islam sad behind closed doors.
The good news is most sane thoughtful people are not on social media so the world is actually much better place than it is on reddit.
hesuskhristo@reddit
"Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it."
Colonel_Klank@reddit
Yes, it's human nature - or a least a part of it. But it seems to me that some of the worst parts are being amplified in social media. It has been suggested that the algorithms tasked with capturing audiences and clicks gravitate to building outrage and clan loyalty - simply because leveraging our baser instincts is easier/more expedient. It would be great for neutral researchers to have access to social media data to see how much truth there is in that and develop ways to restrain or fix it.
oddoma88@reddit
The same consequences for being hateful were present if you tried to play the moral warrior.
Piss of the local circle-jerk and you will feel the consequences.
zornmagron@reddit
get out of my head nailed it 100 percent. now take my upvote the keyboard warriors will be the downfall of us all
NoIamthatotherguy@reddit
I think we were getting to a point where we were Americans, not hyphen Americans. Of course it wasn't all figured out, but definite progress had been made from my childhood in the 70s.
nnote@reddit
💯 agree. It was not a thing at all when I was a kid.
Newdaytoday1215@reddit
Racism was pretty bad on the 90s. You didn't see the videos of the Karens and the police while some of us lived it. I remember getting racist notes at my first office job -a paying intern position- bringing them to the manager and being told if I made a big deal out it then they would be reluctant to hire more black people and that I have to decide if I was going to make more work for the people who conducted my review.
ShannonBolisig@reddit
SoCal native and I’m biracial. Black and white. Oh my, I felt the racism even in my own family. I’m a baby gen-xer (1976) so a lot of my perspective is different than many in this sub. The gangs were very clearly divided by race, especially black and brown. My second grade teacher moved me to the back of the room after we were assigned seats by last name. Since mine started with a C I was used to being in the front. She moved me to the very last row for a little blonde girl to sit up front. I never had one single teacher that wasn’t white. Looking back that seems so crazy to me. I find these discussions so fascinating.
skiddlyd@reddit
I grew up gay in Texas in the 70s and 80s. We just need to learn that if someone is not like us, they’re not necessarily our enemy.
Confident-Order-3385@reddit
Honestly if in conversation I am referencing stuff like race or sexuality, whatever it may be, I at least say stuff like “my friends of African/Caribbean descent” or “my friends of Hispanic descent” or “my friends of Asian descent” or “my friends who are homosexual/pan/bi” etc. It just sounds less, well….. divided, if I’m being honest, and it acknowledges that some of my friends aren’t exactly like me in terms of race/lifestyle etc but I acknowledge they are folks whose backs I have and are all human beings in the end.
But yeah, I do agree none the less
Either-Stop-8924@reddit
I didn’t under the depths of hell the white man had perpetrated not just to people of color, women, to native Americans ..They legit changed history to fit a Country narrative. The “Civil War was fought over States Rights” Not “the folks in the South wanted to keep people as slaves” The “Indians were the bad guys killing the settlers” “Not Europeans came over here killed them all and renamed everything”
When we moved from the Chicago burbs to the boondocks Georgia I was called a Yankee. I had no clue. Went home asked my parents (I think it was 5th grade) This is 1982ish. Like the war was over for 120+ years ago😭😭😭 Bruh time to get over it. I didn’t have an appreciation for how much the keeping down of the people not like them.. I didn’t appreciate the oppression. And the strategy of not lying but not telling the truth.
whineybubbles@reddit
The Rodney King beating happened in the 90's
Substantial_Fun_2966@reddit
I grew up in Florida, one my very first day of school I got told by the older kids that I needed to get ready for checker day at the end of the year. I'm going to say your region and socioeconomic status had a lot to do with your experience. I've been hearing people casually drop hard r's my whole life
Riverrat423@reddit
Politicians and news media both benefit from pitting us against each other. The political tug of war between political correctness and “ fuck your feelings “ is mainly media generated, you can still be friends with different kinds of people IRL.
LukeSkywalkerDog@reddit
I think we were once on the right road. The gist of the 60s movement was to ignore skin color and take people as they were and what their abilities and talents were. Then at some point, the politicians purposely stirred up racial division. That is my opinion.
CrazyBitchCatLady@reddit
As a gay kid in the 90's, this is just not at all my experience. (I'm from liberal Portland, Oregon.) You're dreaming if you think things were better back then. The reason there wasn't as much tension at the time is because we "knew our place" in society and lived with one foot in the closet at all times. We couldn't hold our partners hands in public so bigots had no reason to clutch their pearls at the time.
Now that we're able to live life being visibly queer, haters are losing their goddamn minds. Any post that says something about tensions being worse now is missing the point. The reason tensions are worse is because of bigots, full stop.
FiveCentCandy@reddit
No one was brave enough to be openly gay in my high school. Maybe that's why some people think there were no issues, and that no one cared, because barely anyone was out? The f slur and being called gay were such common insults. Have people forgotten the 90's?!
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
And even more recently, "that's so gay" was an insult
irishgator2@reddit
Right?? “No one” was gay at my high school either. Uh, huh, sure. They were afraid of being out.
Babyroo67@reddit
"zero" gays in my high school too in the early 80s. I don't blame them for hiding.
guachi01@reddit
At my 20th high school reunion I found out one of my classmates was gay. He wasn't a friend but we did have lots of classes together. When I found out I apologized that he had to hide who he was.
srcarruth@reddit
I had a gay friend in high school who was beat up for it in the 90s. In Seattle Broadway had the Q-Patrol (I think they had an official name but everybody called them Q-Patrol) who would walk up & down the street to keep an eye out for gay-bashing which was still very much a hobby. I guess some people stayed in the suburbs and though things were peachy.
GushStasis@reddit
Exactly. OP and the people lauding them are ignorant. All the things OP is complaining about exist because minorities finally have a voice and they're rightfully airing their grievances, not because they're trying to sow division. It's absurd to look back with rose tinted glasses and think we had racism and bigotry "figured out".
Gourmeebar@reddit
Exactly. There’s another one in here who is complaining that they can’t live in the gray. They don’t want to take sides against racists or minorities. Another who calls her parents, “non racists, racists.”
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Some people took those John Hughes fantasies to heart.
Gourmeebar@reddit
Yeah. I’m not gay, but I know it was really rough for gay people back then. It’s amazing that I know this all while having gay friends who were not”my gay friends, just friends.”
BeerWench13TheOrig@reddit
Agreed. I knew 2 gay boys in my neighborhood growing up. They didn’t talk about being gay, but we knew they were. We still played outside with them, played games in the backyard with them, shot hoops with them, swam in the same pool with them and drank from the same water hose (lol).
However, they didn’t talk about it either because there would have been backlash if they had. We all knew it, but we didn’t discuss it with them or “out” them. They were our friends. I wish now that we’d have been able to have that conversation with them, but that topic was very taboo in the 80’s.
Violet2393@reddit
I was hearing gay slurs used as insults starting in elementary school. I was a drama kid so I had a lot of gay friends in high school. They were most definitely in the closet to the extent that was possible. To be open would 100% get you labeled as "the gay kid" (actually much worse than that - the f-word is what you would be known as). It was also tantamount to asking for a beating. And not just from students but from adults, maybe even your own parents. I went to a fairly liberal school in CA but toxic masculinity and homophobia were still rampant. Sure there were some "safe" groups for LGBTQ+ kids could hang out with but that was far from the norm.
slo1111@reddit
No, i think we were just oblivious to all the covert hate and discrimination committed against all types of minority groups.
If you didn't pick up on your black friends being treated differently, such as side eyes from the guy working the register it is probably because you missed it rather than it didn't happen back then
Pre3Chorded@reddit
Homeboy literally never heard of Rodney King.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Or, the Central Park Five.
Or, Yusef Hawkins
guachi01@reddit
The Central Park Five aren't even history. We elected the guy who took out a full page ad calling for their execution President. And he's never apologized for his racism.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
Re-elected him even.
nativebutamerican@reddit
Just so happen that was still a going theme til about 2008 ...
NetJnkie@reddit
Nah. Maybe in your sphere you didn’t see it but I sure did in the south. We didn’t have it figured out at all.
And Matthew Sheppard was killed in 1998.
This_Daydreamer_@reddit
And Nazis invaded Charlottesville in 2017
Electronic-Smile-457@reddit
the homophobia with AIDs. What does OP mean with "we were all just friends". People died for being LGBT.
Yuck_Few@reddit
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. I guess. He's saying that his gay friends are just that. Friends. He doesn't need to focus on the fact that they're gay
guachi01@reddit
Why wouldn't he have focused on the fact they were gay if they were his friends? Gay Americans couldn't marry or serve in the military or donate blood in the '90s. If my friends were being discriminated against because they were gay you can be damn sure I'd focus on them being gay. Did OP just not care about that discrimination?
Yuck_Few@reddit
FFS If I said my gay friend and I went to McDonald's yesterday. We ate chicken nuggets and fries and talked about movies
What part of that scenario makes my friends sexual orientation relevant?
Not everyone is obsessed with identity politics
Elliott2030@reddit
You don't have to focus on that now, but recognizing that they have different challenges than you do goes a long way towards deepening friendships.
It was much easier for white people in the 90's because it was pretty universally frowned upon to be blatantly racist and homophobic, but the subtle racism and homophobia went right over cis white people's heads making things quite a bit more challenging for BIPOC and LGBT people to push back when there was a problem because the "nice" white people who "didn't see color" would defend the not nice white people who very clearly DID see color.
guachi01@reddit
There's a reason the word "woke" exists. Too many cis white people completely oblivious to the bigotry under their noses.
Electronic-Smile-457@reddit
Exactly, Just because OP saw them as just friends, no labels, doesn't mean the people he's referencing didn't see it differently w/ the subtle homophobia/racism. And the blatant by others, where the OP is implying their version of history was not just personal, but the people of the 90s. It wasn't, there was a lot of racism and homophobia (esp w/ AIDS)
Gourmeebar@reddit
Reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. They’re generalizing that because they didn’t see their friends as “gay,” even though they were that gays didn’t have to deal with discrimination. The person that you’re rudely responding to is pointing out the fact that gays indeed suffered discrimination.
Yuck_Few@reddit
Op never implied that they don't. But I know you're trying to gain wokeness points and all
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
It wasn’t cool for gay people in the 90s. Maybe op is a cool guy and didn’t witness it but we def didn’t have it figured out. The people getting screwed were just silenced.
Electronic-Smile-457@reddit
You sound nice, going in with an insult. I know exactly what I read.
Yuck_Few@reddit
You know what you think you read. You're just virtue signaling
Gourmeebar@reddit
Remember people thought that AIDs was gods way of judging the gays.
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
What's that got to do with anything?
NetJnkie@reddit
Why was he killed?
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
Trading meth for sex.
https://reason.com/2023/10/12/matthew-shepards-murder-was-almost-certainly-not-an-anti-gay-hate-crime/
NetJnkie@reddit
I'll let you argue with that other person. But let's just take Matthew out of it. Still think there wasn't bigotry and homophobia in the 90s? Come on now....
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
In the older crowd, sure. I was 14 - 24 years old between 1990 and 2000. My experience felt similar to what the OP said. People my age were taught to accept folks, not to hate on them.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
16 in 91. Homophobia was horrible.
NetJnkie@reddit
It doesn't matter if it's people of a certain age. I turned 16 in '90. Bigotry was alive and well as was racism. And maybe your sphere of people in that age range were better but many, many weren't. OP can make a broad statement if they want but it's only applicable to them.
huron9000@reddit
He was killed over a drug deal, not because he was gay. Look it up.
movingmouth@reddit
False.
Matthew Shepard autopsy: No hard drugs, fingerprint-shaped bruises found, coroner says https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2018/10/30/matthew-shepard-autopsy-no-hard-drugs-hand-shaped-bruises-found-wyoming-coroner/1820019002/
huron9000@reddit
https://reason.com/2023/10/12/matthew-shepards-murder-was-almost-certainly-not-an-anti-gay-hate-crime/
movingmouth@reddit
So...personally I consider Reason to be an unreliable narrator and the citation of the Jimenez book to be the primary source a little questionable.
In researching, I'm not the only one. I find the SPLC to be more reliable as a source than Reason.
Far Right Embraces Book That Rewrites Matthew Shepard Case https://search.app/rb25P8ZK6dyEcQUu5
huron9000@reddit
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/26/the-truth-behind-americas-most-famous-gay-hate-murder-matthew-shepard
meanteeth71@reddit
Seriously. Racism & homophobia were major issues in the 80’s and 90’s.
fiestybox246@reddit
I’m from the south as well, born in 1977, and I agree.
madogvelkor@reddit
I was in Florida, I don't remember any violence against gays -- but most of them were in the closet. There were a lot of homophobic jokes and calling someone gay could start a fight.
cawfytawk@reddit
Personal interactions and views greatly differs from socio-economic prejudice and injustice. Trust me when I say the world hasn't figured out shit. Black people still get shot for being black. Asians still get blocked from college admissions. Sikhs are still being called Muslim terrorists. And it's still a dangerous world for the trans community to exist in.
In a few days you'll see how hateful America truly is when the 47th comes to town. For those of us people of color, we've known it since birth.
Kerensky97@reddit
Ask a gay person about how they felt the nation and people treated them in the 90s. Ask black people if they felt they had better representation and respect back then than they do now.
It's easy for us as the majority population to say, "Things seemed good to me." But we weren't the ones facing the misrepresentation.
But I definitely think the perception of the culture war has been magnified recently. Especially in the last decade. The powers controlling all of us like to manifacture a culture war so we won't rise up and overthrow them with a class war.
"Be mad at what bathroom a trans person used so you ignore the fact that we're not fixing your housing or health cost problems."
EranaJZ@reddit
I'm from the opposite coast and in NY I'd say for ME it was the same, in that I personally didn't care and still think knowing I'm a straight white female tells someone basically nothing about who I am as a person. There were (and are) black people who I adore and would die for and others who I wouldn't spit on if they were on fire - those opinions have nothing to do with their race. HOWEVER - that was never the predominant way all of Gen X behaved. There were (and are) complete racist pieces of crap who refuse to see anything BUT race, sex, etc. It was easier in the 90s to live in a bubble where you and your friends never behaved like a bigot so it was easy to assume bigotry didn't exist. I'm all for judging people as individuals and not as a group and we may yet get there someday - but we weren't there in the 90s and sure as hell aren't yet either.
LupoBTW@reddit
Nobody really cared about these things back in the 80s or 90s, this is true.
MOST don't really care about it now, EXCEPT those that profit from it, and that it is non-stop shoved into our faces and used as an excuse for avoiding personal responsibility. And ALL of that comes from one side.
I am in a marriage with a legal immigrant of color, yet I am still quickly identified as a racist IF it is someone profiting from the grift, in either money or power.
I don't care who you love or who you sleep with, as long as they are willing, consenting adults. But I do care if you call yourself a victim because some of us disapprove of parades of fetish wear and public sexuality in front of kids. You're not a victim, you're a perv looking to get off.
I don't care what race you are, as long as you're a decent human and you do not violate the cultural norms and laws of the place you are living or visiting. Bring your cultural flair, flavors and colors to add in, in moderation. After all, "When in Rome". If you leave a place because it is unappealing to you, it is better to cease most, if not all, of the habits that they have that created the problems. "Don't California my Arizona".
Folks need to start looking in the mirror again. When all you look for is excuses and others to blame for your situation, then you will go no where and that is YOUR fault. If you are taught to believe that entire cultures, entire countries or everyone else is the problem, the common denominator, as well as the problem, is likely you.
JunketAccurate@reddit
Is this guy talking about the same 90’s in CA where the Rodney King beating took place and after the white cops got off the city got burnt down and 63 people were killed.
DarrenFerguson423@reddit
We were even able to joke with our ethnic friends who, rather than take offence, actually realised they were accepted and they responded with jokes about us. It was a different time, destroyed by modern society’s obsession with promoting diversity. As we’ve seen, diversity promotes division.
HoneyBee777@reddit
Sounds about white 🙄
SunshineMcBadass@reddit
I don’t think we truly understood racism in the 90s. We thought if we had black friends we weren’t racist but it’s not the simple. I know my education on the topic has been deep over the past 15 years or so and I didn’t know shit about it in the 80s and 90s.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
I think too many folks are stuck on this identity nonsense. I don't need to be reminded of someone's ethnicity, color, race, or religion. I don't care what folks do in the bedroom (as long as children and animals aren't involved and there's no sex trafficking, it's not my business). Honestly, I don't give a shit about any of that.
And there lies the problem - this generation swears they're reinventing the wheel, swears that everyone needs to be constantly told of someone's race, religion or who they sleep with. It's just not that interesting. Unfortunately is OUR generation bowing down to this stupidity instead of telling this bunch to shut up.
ThermalIgnition@reddit
This completely nails the way I feel.
Hey, we're all the same, let's point it out by making EVERYTHING about our differences. This was done by feel good idiots with no feelings for nuance.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
I work in the entertainment world and if I keep rolling my eyes anymore than I do, I'm going to cross-eyed. Every fucking event turns into some skin color/who I sleep with/what I identify as/what land we're sitting on event. Shut up already. No one cares. No one.
I damn my generation for feeding into this crap w/their kids. Just stop it already.
Blossom73@reddit
"No one cares". Yet a certain political party is trying to strip rights from LGBT people and people of color. Hmmm...
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
What specific rights are trying to be stripped from LGBT, people of color and non-Christians?
Blossom73@reddit
You can't be serious. If you don't know, you aren't paying attention.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
I love these replies. Clearly then I'm not paying attention.
So I'll ask again.
What specific rights are trying to be stripped from LGBT, people of color and non-Christians?
WackyWriter1976@reddit
I'll play (black person here): voting rights, gentrification, police immunity, rights to fair medical care, and fairness in law enforcement.
Should I keep going?
Arrogance is not a virtue.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
How are voting rights being taken away? Gentrification isn’t a right. Neighborhoods change. People get pushed out. Police immunity isn’t a right. Fair medical care-need to explain. Fairness in law enforcement-need to explain.
AMGRN@reddit
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
AMGRN@reddit
I’m getting downvoted for agreeing that we seemed to be going in a good direction in the 90’s and now it’s worse with anger and division.
Wow. Y’all are really not getting it. Keep virtue signaling anonymously on Reddit, you’re sure doing the Lord’s work. 😂😂
Illustrious-Ratio213@reddit
Must be nice being white.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
Must be nice playing the assumption game.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Its easy not to care when its not you in the crosshairs. It troubles me that we are at the ages we are and the idea of putting oneself in another person's shoes is so foreign as to not even enter the conversation.
I guarantee if it was your love life, your religion, your body up for discussion and governance, you'd feel a whole lot differently.
Blossom73@reddit
Exactly. 100% this.
HomoRainbow480@reddit
This. I also noticed it ramped up after Obamas 2nd term ish…. Then grifters started writing books and drumming up the drama and next thing I knew, the world/US was somehow more racist than it had ever been. It was restoked on purpose.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
You thought the world was more racist after Obama? Compared to when, 1950s Alabama?
HomoRainbow480@reddit
Not what I said. The world felt fixed after Obama first took office. After his second term I noticed thing were kicking back up and it seemed to be reignited by both voices
ElYodaPagoda@reddit
When we were kids, we all watched the same three networks and laughed at the same funny shows. We're all human beings and deserve respect, and at the same time we also shouldn't be held responsible for what our ancestors did in regards to race. I'd say most of us reject racism and bigotry, because that's how we grew up. We grew up with "Diff'rent Strokes" and "Good Times," and that was good television for everyone.
gozer87@reddit
Umm, nope.
Trix_Are_4_90Kids@reddit
No GenX had and has plenty of racism and bigotry. It was just the norm back then. I remember the white kids hurling racial slurs and trying to gang upon you and beat you up for daring to move into their neighborhoods. Hell in parts of NY they were chasing Black kids with ball bats. The white kids, not their parents. Black kids were getting hurt.
I've seen this trend for a while though. White GenXers online conveniently forgetting that we were the gen after Civil Rights passed and having to deal with y'all repeating the racist BS that your moms and dads said and did at home on the playground. The selective amnesia is amazing.
My fave was when the parents would catch their white kids playing with other races and call them over to them and tell them to stay away from the nwords. And we'd know what was said because the white kids would make sure they told us. "MOM SAID I CAN'T PLAY WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE AN NWORD!😁"
You'd be hard pressed to find a Black GenXer that did not have that experience at least once.
Yeah no. Those days were no paradise. I went to an PWC and the racial harassment was sheer hell.
The Black LGBT kids had it worse. And let's not forget white gay kids were getting killed back then by their GenX peers. Movies have made about it. (that selective amnesia at work again)
THEN the internet happened, and we can see all of the hate going on all at once.
If this post survives, I expect to get pushback on this because this is a majority white sub and the blind spots are huge.
requiemguy@reddit
Don't worry, because whether the US systematically ignores bigotry or systematically focuses on bigotry, both lead to worse outcomes.
OrbAndSceptre@reddit
Yeah we didn’t care and those that did care didn’t have the internet to spread their stupidities around the world.
sum-9@reddit
If you’re a cis white male then you’re just showing your privilege. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
psydkay@reddit
I've noticed that a lot of people have rose colored glasses when it comes to racism in the 90s. Yes, many people didn't judge others over petty BS like racism, orientation etc, but there were a lot of skin heads, KKK was real, the LA Riots happened due to the shit that killed George Floyd. Rodney King and Reginald Denny, both victims of racial violence. And media was majority CIS white males in the lead. If you listen to the lyrics of rap music of that era, racial violence and profiling from police was a very common theme. However, I agree the extremes seem to proliferating. Social media has played a huge roll in spreading the hate but I am convinced the source of the modern flair up was 8 years Obama. The right is still burning on the inside from that.
Rocketgirl8097@reddit
Some people today are really upset they have to treat people of color as equals.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
Some people today are really upset that they even have to hear POC talk about their experiences. That's the whole point of the OP..."why is everything so bad now, I liked it better when POC all just kept these uncomfortable things within their own communities and I didn't have to be bothered. "
WackyWriter1976@reddit
"Can you suffer a little more quietly, please, and thank you?" That's the vibe.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
exactly.
OneGoodSub@reddit
I graduated high school in 1992. I spent every day of those 4 years being bullied hard for being considered gay. Teachers saw and either laughed along with or ignored it. I would never want to go thru that again.
the-great-tostito@reddit
I've been on this planet for a while, and I have noticed that civility went out the window with the advent of social media. Racism, bigotry, etc... has always been there to an extent - some places worse than others. Social media has blown it up for all to see.
I have taken steps to remove the nasty stuff by removing friends or unsubscribing from feeds that feed in to the toxicity. People say life was simpler in the 80s and 90s, it's because of social media. We didn't have it.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
"Civility" is code for some people knew they had to keep their mouths shut in certain circles. I have many issues with social media but providing a platform for the unheard is not one of them.
the-great-tostito@reddit
this is what I mean. You talk politics at the dinner table, sometimes you learned to be quiet when Grandpa was talking. It's because we respected Grandpa and didn't want to fight on Thanksgiving. You didn't have to agree with him.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
You're talkin' to the wrong girl. I absolutely did not keep quiet if Grandpa started using the N word. I didn't respect that part of him.
SophsterSophistry@reddit
Yeah. Apparently, I got a reputation as a mouthy broad (among various groups--family and not family) from a young age.
BIGepidural@reddit
Or you didn't!
Because what you did instead was argue against grandpa and anyone else who thought like him to such a point that they daren't spew that BS around you because they knew it would start an argument that wasn't gonna end without upsetting the whole family gathering just so they could say whatever they wanted.
We couldn't change their minds; but we sure as shit changed the conversations.
SignificantTransient@reddit
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1687/race-relations.aspx
Lots of stuff happened after 2008 crash. 2011 was when occupy movement started.
2012 Obama re-elected. Trayvon Martin shooting was capitalized on by media. Gay marriage ratified. Rodney King drowns.
2013 George Zimmerman trial occurs. Riots result.
Race relations take a steady decline after this. Whether it's due to the shift in media capitalizing on any racial tension or something much deeper, I can't prove.
I don't think anything is accidental. I think discord between us keeps us from protesting for anything other than racial tension anymore. This IMO is a reaction to the Occupy movement.
Kirby_The_Dog@reddit
Spot on, keeping us divided so we don't unite.
meanteeth71@reddit
Reporting on racism divides us?
Kirby_The_Dog@reddit
No. Try again.
meanteeth71@reddit
Hi. I’m not trying to provoke you. I’m genuinely asking for clarification on that point. Sorry for having the audacity to attempt to engage you.
Kirby_The_Dog@reddit
Thanks for clarifying, this is reddit after all...
Reporting racism, no it doesn't divide us. Amplifying and sensationalizing it does. If you google a chart on the number of times racism is mentioned in news, it's pretty flat for decades then shoots up exponentially right around 2010/11. Did racism really increase that much all of a sudden? No.
meanteeth71@reddit
No, but the ability to document it better did. I’ve heard people say this before. It was genuinely shocking to me that people didn’t know a lot of the things about America that are every day for some of us.
It’s annoying to watch the third and fourth hand sensationalism that goes on, but I think documentation is important. Otherwise they’ll kill you and say you liked it.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
If we keep fighting each other, we won't pay attention to both of us getting screwed is Kirby's point and they're not lying.
meanteeth71@reddit
Capitalized on by media in what sense?
ObjectiveUpset1703@reddit
All the bigotry and violence toward Muslim/Sikh communities occurring within the U.S. after 9/11. "Battle for Seattle"/WTO Riots 1999. The protests after the cops that beat the hell out of Rodney King got off scott free 1992. The Olympic Boycott against USSR, Opposition to the ERA protests of theb1980s The vitriol, hatred, judgement and abandonment of the LGBTQ community during the first decade of HIV/AIDs. Civil Rights, Women's Rights and Anti-War protests of the 60s/70s. Gen X was born into a world of disarray.
RosieDear@reddit
The chart seems to indicate that Trumpism and Birtherism caused the largest drop.
"Rapists and Bad People) and "he's a muslim and wasn't born here" is almost exactly at the down slope.
Restless-J-Con22@reddit
I remember white people being just as emboldened then as now to say what they really think when they think they're safe
gingerjaybird3@reddit
I think what we’ve learned is that the hate was just under surface. It took very little prodding to bring it out.
Hasidic_Homeboy254@reddit
It's just that social media exists
Period
We are not worse
It's just the assumption that we are based on the fact that EVERYONE is given a voice to voice stupid shit
Netflixandmeal@reddit
Obama killed that vibe.
Limp_Masterpiece_292@reddit
Totally understand! My peeps were my peeps zero exceptions. We are all human and fuck those who disagree.
wetclogs@reddit
I think Hasan Minaj summarized it best in his latest Netflix special when he related the story about how he tried to teach his father what Black Lives Matter was about. His father responded, “Hasan, NO lives matter.” Maybe I’m a half bubble off the Gen X level, but the way I experienced it, no one gave a shit about us, and so we were left to ourselves. No one bothered to separate us into categories because there was no profit in it, and so we generally didn’t separate ourselves, either.
I think the difference today is that by the mid-90’s, politicians had discovered that “divide and conquer” was the wave of the future. I think you can draw a direct line between the mid-terms in 1994 and today’s political and social chaos and division. That foundation of division was fed anabolic steroids by a media milieu in which you can now profit greatly by splitting people into ever finer groups and keeping them “engaged” (viewing your ads) by constantly stimulating their amygdalae with the latest transgression of the “Others.” Of course, the groundwork was laid much earlier by Reagan’s “Shining City On A Hill” propaganda. As I recall, it was a very white city, and it wasn’t wheelchair accessible. You can go further back and see the infancy of Reaganism in Nixon, or further still and see today’s racial divisions and white nationalist movement as a result of our failure to hang every Confederate officer for treason in 1865. Racially, I think we are little better off today than we were when the reforms under early Reconstruction were rolled back by those Southern Democrats. I will be transparent here and say that I unapologetically despise “Lost Cause” southerners and every bit of their culture. Ultimately, it comes down to the Revolution and the 3/5’s compromise. We are still paying the price.
Now, I will say that growing up in California, and even NoCal versus SoCal, was likely a very different experience than growing up in the Midwest, South, or Northeast, though for my cohort within Gen X, the music and advertising on MTV seemed to drive our collective unconscious. My experience was that MTV defined the zeitgeist, however poorly it reflected our real lives. I remember MTV very much as a continuous United Colours of Benetton advertisement. In retrospect, maybe it was a result of the collective White Guilt of the generation that was running things at the time (and oh, yeah, still insists on piloting the ship into iceberg after iceberg well into their 70’s and 80’s). I say it was the Boomer’s guilt driving it because while they seemed to go to great lengths to make sure Black people knew they weren’t racists, I don’t remember Asians or Latinos getting the same attention, and certainly not homosexuals.
dragonmom1971@reddit
I'm Gen X, too, and I can see where you're coming from. I think the scale started tilting backward in 1996 when Fox News premiered. I remember when it first started, I watched it with my husband, and bc we never had another network like it, we wrongly believed that it was just another cable news network. The longer we watched it, we started to realize it was not ordinary news like all of the other existing networks. Their vitriol was unlike any news I had ever seen before. Instead of being objective, it twisted any scrap of information into subjective opinion. And it was actually mild at first. Quickly, it morphed into a place to get your daily dose of outrage. Within a year, we stopped watching, and it continued to get worse from small clips I saw from time to time. It took a few years, but I then noticed people seemed to become emboldened and the division spread. It just got worse from there.
SaltyEngineer45@reddit
It’s not just you, most of us notice it. The problem with racism and bigotry right now is that generates a ton of revenue. It’s a gravy train of cash flow on biscuit wheels and no one wants to derail it.
Unable_Chard9803@reddit
American culture was generally more homogeneous in the '70s, '80s, and '90s.
Economically it was feasible to lead a solvent existence working almost any entry-level job.
The climate was better for maintaining trust and tolerance for differences in a way that seems quaint today.
SamMeowAdams@reddit
Another thing. We all didn’t have phone cameras and the internet back in the day.
People think now times are so bad because everything is on video . 90s and 80s were far worse! People don’t realize how good we have it now .
MaleficentMousse7473@reddit
Yes! Consider how the Rodney King trial actually showed video of police brutality - that was a beginning of an important change.
SamMeowAdams@reddit
Yet decades later we still have the same videos .
MaleficentMousse7473@reddit
It’s infuriating
ShadowDurza@reddit
Hindsight is everything. Hindsight in the span of the time since the 90s, we've definitely regressed. Hindsight since the dawn of our nation, we're still doing pretty good and this is just a dip in a line still going straight up.
red286@reddit
Nah, it was just a lot quieter then, because you couldn't shout the N-word in someone's face and not get your ass beat for it. Today, I can go on Twitter and call people any slur I want and all they can do is call me an asshole, and then I can mock them for getting 'triggered'.
But don't kid yourself. Racism was extremely commonplace back then, particularly any time people could be racist without anyone calling them out for it. People working in HR would file any resumes with "black" or "ethnic"-sounding names in the trash. Cops would routinely follow and harass minority teens, particularly in towns that allowed stop & frisk searches. Hell, Sundown Towns didn't entirely disappear until the 90s (and there's still plenty of rural towns in the south where you don't want to be black after dark).
Beautiful-Height3103@reddit
I really believe that is a purely Pollyana view of what we dealt with in our time. While I don't refute your experience, my experience was not the same. I grew up in NYC in, at the time the most diverse area of the country (West Queens) and there were always racial strife , bigotry and hate around at times. I was victim of it on numerous occasions. Social Media ignites the flames with the loud and vocal minority on both sides of the coin which makes it seem worse. Imo it will always be there
Babyroo67@reddit
This. I went to a majority black high school and can only laugh when I read someone say black people can't be racist to whites. lol
No_Dance1739@reddit
It definitely felt like we’ve regressed culturally since the 1990s
Quirky_Commission_56@reddit
When I was in high school in the 90s all of the “outcasts” hung out in the back parking lot (punks, stoners, chollos, goths, skaters etc) before class, during lunch, and after school if we had to wait for a ride and we were referred to collectively as the Linum Losers by the “popular’ kids.
Key-Guava-3937@reddit
Get off the internet, and stop watching cable news, it's not the real world.
ganshon@reddit
Barney is to blame. He makes everyone feel that they are "special". Before Barney, everyone was regular. After Barney, everyone demands that they are special.
Friendaim@reddit
I think you should ask some actual black or gay GenXers what they thought about it. I have a feeling their lived experience might be different.
geodebug@reddit
I think you have some serious white blinders on.
I too had some acquaintances and friends that weren’t like me but just because we got along together doesn’t mean the world at large was kind to them.
Talk to your friends and ask them how safe they felt outside of your neighborhood bubble or how they felt their kind was treated by the media.
Sudden_Application47@reddit
I grew up in the 90s also. Except, I have a unique experience of being a white passing member of a Native American family.
I got to see racism firsthand even though I didn’t have to experience it. Just because you didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Just because they weren’t talking about it didn’t mean it wasn’t on their mind.
We were ignorant of things that were going on, and now we can’t be. Thanks to the Internet information is just a click away. Seeing somebody else’s perspective is just a click away. A lot of people get mad at seeing other peoples perspective because that perspective doesn’t match their own and it makes them question their own reality.
geetarboy33@reddit
Living in the Midwest, I could be totally off base, but I feel like Obama awakened and fired up all the racism and bigotry seething under the surface. You will see a lot of online comments from racists stating, “None of this was a problem until Obama divided this country.” What they really mean is, “None of this was a problem as long as white people maintained the majority and control.” Once a black man was put in charge of the country and his wife started telling you to feed your kids healthy food, all bets were off.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
You're right. It's not his fault at all, but the bigots had a visceral reaction to their mere presence. Sad to see.
Blossom73@reddit
💯💯💯 Spot on.
wizardyourlifeforce@reddit
No offense dude, but ask your black and gay friends if we had bigotry figured out in the 1990s.
Splendid_Fellow@reddit
I know black people who agree that "we don't see color, everyone is just people" was better than today's new form of discrimination. But as for gay people, yeah no, it was not better in the 90's.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
...and they're probably lying to you to get through the day with less of a headache.
Splendid_Fellow@reddit
The audacity of you to say that. Being offended on behalf of others doesn't make you a good person, especially when you try and claim they're lying about it. Wake up.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
I'm black.
Wake up.
Splendid_Fellow@reddit
I'm white. Does this now mean that I am ALL WHITE PEOPLE?
You being black does not mean you represent ALL black people. I'd bring them in right now and you could tell them they're lying, to their faces, if I could.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Dude, you're projecting big time with the offensiveness.
I may not know every single black person personally. But, I damn sure know more about how we have to move - no matter where we started - in this country. So, yeah, bring it on.
guachi01@reddit
There's a reason the term "woke" exists and it's for OP and the person you're responding to.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Pretty much! We were supposed to be better than the generations before us. Not so much now.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Right?! Posts like these are so damn disingenuous. "We were all fine to each other". No. we weren't, lol.
SarangSarangSarang@reddit
Exactly this. It sounds like OP thinks their experience can represent our experience. It can't. And that's why the discussions on oppression is so important- people like this go around with a fantasy of an oppression free life when we've been talking about these issues for years.
tclgogo@reddit
Came to say the same thing! OP says “you didn’t think about it” but I think what they meant is, they didn’t think about it. I’m sure their black and gay friends did. Time to take off the rose colored glasses!
Catladylove99@reddit
Seriously. Thank you.
Jwoods224@reddit
💯
ErisianSaint@reddit
I got educated in the 90s by one of my best friends who happens to be black. Racism still existed, we just didn't see it. Things happened that I had no clue about because I was white.
wang-chuy@reddit
Social Media separated us. Rather, people use social media to put us in buckets. It’s a way for the people that control the money to distract us so they keep that money. Here I am posting about social media but it’s almost unavoidable. They won and we’re fucked. Says cynical Gen Xer…
Glass-Squirrel2497@reddit
It’s just that you were insulated from it. It’s part of our privilege as white cishet people: we get to decide when and where race or gender or sexuality matters and when it doesn’t.
You say y’all just didn’t care, and that’s because your indifference may not have been directly challenged by a moment where you needed to stand up for a friend who is Black, Indigenous, or queer. Thing is, being insulated like we are, you may have not noticed those moments, either.
You also may not have been in the room when a Black friend was turned down for a loan, or missed an employment opportunity, or when a queer friend was singled out for abuse by a family member. And being cisgendered, heterosexual, and White, those friends may instinctively not share their issues with you (and I’m sure you wouldn’t think to ask.)
Anyway, I had a similar experience when I moved to a very diverse neighborhood in a larger city from a quite rural area. I had friends who were gay, queer, Black, Latino, Indigenous, trans, Muslim… but there were no challenges to my innate racism and bigotry from growing up in our culture.
AdIntelligent4496@reddit
Do you remember that time when a black man was elected president, right about the same time the internet became widely available and smart phones came out? Remember when that caused about half the country to lose their minds and start churning out racism and hate online? Remember how they got so upset about it that they elected a reality tv star to be president because he said the black man was from Nigeria? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Madrugada2010@reddit
"As a GenX’er I feel like we kind of had racism and bigotry figured out in the 90s."
Wow, Boomer really is a state of mind.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Many, not all, Gen Xers took their parents' places without even trying. It's no wonder younger generations call anyone older than them a boomer.
Proper-Cause-4153@reddit
You know, for a while, I was very defensive and "No! Boomer is a very specific generation! Not MY GenX!" but yeah...here we are and I stand corrected.
sneakysnake1111@reddit
Gay here. You just weren't aware of how shitty it was back then.
Matthew sheppard was brutalty murdered in the 90s. DADT was in the 90s. We just had republicans want HIV to kill us off a couple of years before that.
And i'm just focusing on shit that affected me.
guachi01@reddit
I joined the Navy in 2001. Some time in, maybe, 2017 or 2018I was talking with some junior Sailors about what life was life in the military when DADT was in effect (repealed in 2010). It wasn't even ancient history and they looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language, a look I knew well because we were all linguists. I was well versed in that blank look of incomprehension.
Affectionate-Cup3907@reddit
Interpersonally, I agree. However, and I am assuming you were young as well, growing up in the '80s, we as white kids were completely unaware of the institutional and ingrained racism in our social institutions. We didn't know about those things so we didn't think it existed. We all got along real good with our friends and neighbors and the kids we went to school with based on which click we belong to, I agree. Institutions still existed back then and a lot of things were not safe for people to bring up or talk about that we didn't know about.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
All true and I was completely talking about at an interpersonal level. Most in here knew exactly what I was trying to say. The more angry comments are focused around institutional problems that I have no delusional to witnessing having been fixed. Bottom line: people got along better without a label for every single aspect of our lives.
cdjreverse@reddit
So, OP, how are you taking in the reception you are receiving to this post. Is it eye opening? are you rethinking whether your friends of color perceived the 90s in the same light as you?
As a black person your age, one of my biggest frustrations growing up was how my white friends had no idea how much racism there was around and that life was fine when things, really weren't. But you had to bottle it in because that was life in America.
My mom has this same thing with white people her age who thought things were better in the 1970s and she's like "I hate to burst your bubble but, your black housekeeper did not in fact love you like you think she did. When the nannies got back home with us, their actual families they TAAAAALKED BAAAAAD about yall."
DreamerofDreams67@reddit
I just ignore everyone
RiffRandellsBF@reddit
As a second generation Asian who grew up with redneck farmboys, let me throw in my two cents...
Bigotry is based on ignorance and inexperience. Take Archie Bunker. He was a bigot, not a racist. Archie had certain views about groups, but he would put that aside to openly admire Sammy Davis, Jr., befriend George Jefferson, and even defend his maid, Ellen Canby, by punching his lodge brother over insults. With knowledge and personal experience, Archie was able to rise above his bigotry because a bigot can actually see the individual.
Racism is based on "education" and "facts", but really just propaganda and misinformation. It is impossible to change the mind of a racist. Racists don't see individuals, only groups. They ignore personal experience. You have no idea how many times I've just walked away from a racist, usually a white upper-middle class limousine socialist, who insisted on telling me that the US is systematically racist and the whites in power will never allow anyone else to succeed.
When provided with actual government statistics showing that the most successful large demographic in the US are Asians and the most successful small demographic in the US are Nigerians, they refuse to accept facts. They will say, "Well, Blacks are overrepresented in prison, so that's racism!" But when shown that incarceration is more tied to growing up in poverty in fatherless homes, whether Black, White, Hispanic, or Asian (Hmong), they refuse to believe it, instead thinking there is some grand cabal of white klansmen pulling levers somewhere to intentionally keep non-whites from succeeding in the US.
Look at Daryl Davis, a blues musician who befriends bigots in the KKK, winning them over to the point that many have quit the Klan and given him their robes. Davis proves that bigotry can be cured.
But racism? Nope. Not a chance since the most committed racists are "educated" and actually believe that aren't racist at all. Anyway, that's my two cents. Do with it what you will.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Nah. He was a racist, lol. He signed papers attempting to keep folks out of the neighborhood and joined that "community group" as two examples. Did he change? Sure. But, he was a racist.
LydiaBrunch@reddit
The difference between racism and bigotry is that racism is built into systems - and that isn't necessarily even done consciously. But the effects are the same whether it was intentional or not. I get that people use "racist" and "bigoted" pretty interchangeably but technically that's the difference. It's not about "seeing the individual" or not.
Look at the Rooney rule in NFL head coach/senior position hiring. There were basically no minority head coaches in the NFL before 2002. The Rooney rule required interviewing at least some minority candidates - there were no hiring quotas, just interview quotas. But suddenly, once minority candidates were able the enter the pipeline, they started being hired. Before they didn't get into the pipeline. I have a hard time concluding that there wasn't something wrong with the NFL's pipeline pre-2002 when you look at what happened when it changed.
That's the kind of thing that people mean by "institutionalized racism." It's not so much that there is an elite group at the top pulling levers against minorities. It's more that the elite group at the top has never really considered that there might be something wrong with their recruitment and hiring processes, even though they "just happen" to disproportionately hire white dudes vs other candidates for decades upon decades.
RiffRandellsBF@reddit
You learned about systemic racism in college, didn't you?
LydiaBrunch@reddit
No and no. Why?
Do you have a response to what I said rather than who you think I might be?
RiffRandellsBF@reddit
There is no systemic racism in the US. None. If there were then why are Asians the most successful large demographic and Nigerians the most successful small demographic?
You do know Asians and Nigerians are not white, don't you?
Im_tracer_bullet@reddit
'There is no systemic racism in the US. None.'
Simply head-in-the-sand thinking.
It's also interesting that you seem to have a real anti-intellectual vibe going on.
LydiaBrunch@reddit
How does that prove there is no systemic racism? If income alone is the measure, your own link for the first article shows that Hispanic and Black folks tend to have lower incomes overall in the US. (Your second article is pay walled so I can't read it.) I'm not considering the college education rates because they don't necessarily correlate with income; ask teachers and social workers.
Additionally, the article doesn't speak to entrepreneurship vs employment in corporations or other businesses. And if people are being successful by starting their own businesses - that's awesome! But it doesn't mean there are not still recruiting and hiring issues in established businesses - in fact that's why many immigrants and minorities are entrepreneurs.
Look dude, I don't think anyone is saying that the reasons why group A does well on the whole and group B doesn't aren't multifaceted. But institutionalized racism is one of those facets.
Illustrious-Ratio213@reddit
While there are signs of progress, my anecdotal observations show that NFL black coaches outside of one notable exception usually get the shittiest jobs and often only for a single season while the team is rebuilding. They're frequently used as scapegoats to the fans for a year when the team is looking to stock pile money and assets to get better in the future. Those who follow the NFL closely can do the math for themselves, I'm not going to list them all out, but everyone knows when a team is tanking and a lot of times that team has a black HC.
LydiaBrunch@reddit
Hm. I admittedly don't follow the NFL that closely. But it sounds a lot like how women often get hired as CEOs only after the company is already in distress.
Illustrious-Ratio213@reddit
Literally just happened at my PoE last year, wasn't so much financial distress but a couple of other things that happened that were less than ideal. Seems like she was taking the fall for it.
BIGepidural@reddit
But why is that? ⬆️
Why are people growing up impoverished, without parents, and with barriers that historically hold them captive?
Those barriers exist as a result of oppression- intentional oppression of various groups, by design of the people in power who actively seek to control and/or supress individuals who they deem to he dangerous for one reason or another- baring in mind that the perceived danger can in fact be success in life which raised the hope of other oppressed persons who want the same.
I don't say that lightly or without foundation either because I've been doing some research into Metis people within Canada and some of those acts to control and oppress are written in documents, and the fear is the success of a mixed people who would lend hope to the other oppressed persons (indigenous) if they were to become too successful in a white man's world.
That same sentiment flavors the judicial system of today wherein a POC receives extreme sentencing for crimes that white people walk away from practically unscathed.
So why are people impoverished? By design.
Why are people growing up in single parent households? Largely by design, some by choice, but disproportionate incarceration plays a major factor in those who are impoverished because many see crime as the only way out.
To be clear- i agree with most of what you've said; but it needs to said that an intentionally oppressed people has a harder chance of getting ahead because they start live with a great disadvantage and often lack the supports they would need should anything falter.
Rurumo666@reddit
I've never been pulled over for any reason in my life. When I used to get rides to/from work in the South Bay (in "liberal" CA) from my friend who is black, he was pulled over 5 times in 2 years when I was in the car with him. He was always going the speed limit and was never charged. Yeah, crime is related to poverty, obviously, but racism among police is systemic and self perpetuating.
RiffRandellsBF@reddit
Did you learn that in college?
RevolutionaryPost460@reddit
I can relate completely. Everyone seems to have a label which goes against the essence of gen X.
In my case race wasn't a thing because my parents hub was military. Orientation was different exposure. As a young kid, we had that neighbor referred to as "the bachelor". That's the only label of a person I heard of and was obviously meant to shelter the kids and the neighbor to some extent.
Looking back I think of a few of my gay friends in our circle and it just wasn't a big deal. We were more into bonfire parties, arcades, and malls.
poolpog@reddit
I think this depends very much on where you grew up in addition to when.
I grew up in Maryland, which is even more diverse and possibly more liberal than California, and everyone I grew up with has turned into a lefty lib type. (But even here, I've found that some people I went to high school with grew into racist and bigoted outcomes.) But my cohort growing up does not match the experiences of many in this country, or so I've discovered over the years.
InevitableStruggle@reddit
Boomer here. Kid, you’re absolutely on target. And I think you’re more right than my generation—or before. I can say for certain that racism was inherited. I treasure a picture of me and a half-dozen new friends at summer camp when I was probably about 8. One day I noticed, “hey, one of them is hispanic and one is black.” If I met them today they could still be my friends. SOMEBODY dumped that crap in my brain, though.
plesvegas@reddit
It turns out that, given a platform to uncontrollably express their views on, a lot of people turn out to be cunts
ineedlotsofguns@reddit
I’m dumb. Life was simpler in the 90s for me.
sassomatic@reddit
Wow! GenX from Cali here. What part of California was this? We definitely did not have it figured out near Oakland.
cdjreverse@reddit
I'm the same age as you. I was the black friend. People did care about race. There was plenty of rage. Did you just ignore half of the rap came out?
Mathieran1315@reddit
I think you’re wearing rose colored glasses
Dpepper70@reddit
I’m a GenXer too, from Alabama no less, and it felt like everyone was just more focused on getting ahead in life. It was just as easy to get along with someone of a different race or sexual orientation as it was to get along with anyone else.
charlottelight@reddit
Curious how many redditors participating in this thread are white and how many are poc. Because I would think the person of color in ‘90’s was likely experiencing what OP is describing differently.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
I'm not only black, but I'm a bisexual woman who came out in her thirties after spending her earlier years in fear. So, I played the game for safety until I found my voice.
vogtde1@reddit
As a fellow Gen X, you sound whiter than me, and it seems you have never realized just how much privilege you had, and still have, to be able to think that we somehow grew up in a 'better' time
lassobsgkinglost@reddit
Uhhhh. I’m Native American (Lakota) from South Dakota. Racism was terrible in the 80s when I was growing up here and it still sucks in lots of ways.
I am fairly white-presenting (medium skin tone, gray eyes, dark hair). I heard white kids at school and adults at my first jobs say awful things about Natives because they didn’t realize I was one as well.
MaleficentMousse7473@reddit
Yep! And this is why white people who don’t think there is racism are kinda disengenuous (sp). There’s plenty of stuff said when people think they are alone with an ‘in group.’ For example I’m white and this awful person at my gym came up and complained about a president when Obama was in office as if this were a bonding activity for the blond white girls.
Fresh_Lingonberry279@reddit
I am in CA and have this conversation with my friends often. None of us feel that way. However, if born and raised in CA, we have been such a melting pot for so long that people are just people. My viewpoint is how we were raised. If you are a kind and respectful human, nothing else matters. The folks who victimize themselves are a much bigger issue here in CA. Make better decisions and not live off the view of entitlement, and the world will be a better place for all of us.
Taupe88@reddit
Yikes. Hmmm? the World Wide Interwebs allowed minority voices to reach into places they couldn’t prior. The relative anonymity meant more effusive and robust language was used.
headcanonball@reddit
"Bigotry didn't directly affect my life when I was a child, but now that it affects me directly, I think it's worse"
guachi01@reddit
I remember Rodney King and rampant homophobia.
Correct. Many people didn't care that Black Americans still faced racism and gay Americans were second class citizens. Support for gay marriage among Gen X in the '90s was in the 30-40% range.
Straight_Kitchen4080@reddit
Yes we have regressed, you can blame the media in the 90s for that. I went to a high school that was 50/50. The majority of us all went to same race elementary schools before merging into this school and there were no problems at all. Sure there were some problems like black kids robbing whites for starter jackets but that was about it.
HighBiased@reddit
Yah it was more "greasers vs socs"
Stay gold PonyBoy!
Ok_Responsibility419@reddit
Us gays & minorities had to keep quiet and pretend to be just exactly like everyone else and don’t stand out back then. Didn’t feel as easy to just be me frankly until later decades … yes it was easier for you to know /work /speak with us but not so much on our end.
PuzzleheadedBobcat90@reddit
I was 14 in 1984, just starting my freshman year in a bay area, small town .The big brouhaha was parents freaking out over how the school planned to bring in a speaker to explain HIV/ AIDs. Parents wanted the bare minimum info given to us. They did not want us taught how to have safe sex using condoms.
The parents got their wish, and the safe sex part of the video was cut. The presenter told us anyway and showed us how to place a condom on a penis.
It was the great banana scandal of 1984.
We were a small enough town that we had one black kid in our hs of about 1000 to 1200 kids. The 1980 cencus shows 94.9 white vs. 335 black people.
This was back in the day when white people were too scared to go into Oakland because, according to the town folk, it was crime-ridden and full of drug dealing gangs because (and I quote my mom) "thats where all the black people live". Except she didn't use that word or the terrible slur with N. She used the other N word. I don't want to type it here because it's still a racist word.
My parents had no issue with all my gay friends except to remind me not to share food because I could get sick. She never said aids. There were oddly okay with all races except black people. They were also products of their births in 1925 and 1928. My grandma was terribly racist. By the time I was entering adulthood, my parents had begun to be better and more welcoming to black people and, at my insistence, stopped using derogatory terms. Honestly, i think they only stopped because I wouldn't let them get away with it when I was home, but i do think they softened some.
My parents owned a restaurant in the 80s and ain't employed high school kids until the late 80s when we started seeing an influx of Mexican immigrants moving into the area. High school kids stopped applying, and my dad hired immigrants instead. My dad loved them for their work ethic, as they worked side by side with them on our farm.
I think the 80s was pivotal in terms of how the world view shifted from an us against them to a live and let live.
And now we're going backward in the wrong direction. There is so much hate back in the world. Racist people are not afraid to spew their hate freely now.
It feels like instead of hope being saved in Pandora's box, hate was kept instead.
azredneck68@reddit
I grew up in Riverside County, California in the 90's. Racism was rampant.
figsslave@reddit
We have regressed. I thought we made progress in the 70s moving past it,but there’s a part of our culture that’s been working overtime for decades to increase division and for now they’re “winning”
mrredbailey1@reddit
This is an easy one. People want attention. Negative attention is still attention. In this day and age, people are dying for attention. Personally? I don’t give a FUCK what your personal opinions are. If you’re a solid, honest person, then you’re my friend.
srcarruth@reddit
George Carlin had a whole bit about this 'happens to be' thing. He saw through this facade of casual thinking. Cops were keeping black people out of the suburbs. I'm, white and when I lived in a black neighborhood I got stopped a lot and asked why I was walking around there. Nothing was solved in the 90s.
SquirellyMofo@reddit
If you were white, you just didn’t realize this shit was happening. Nobody believed police brutality was real until Rodney King. Just because we didn’t know about it doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening.
SCKT37@reddit
Just because you didn’t see your friends as Black or gay doesn’t mean that they didn’t live in a society that treated them as such. It’s even possible that they didn’t realize they were being treated differently at the time. As teens we just don’t have a substantial awareness of the social systems we’re born into. Everything seems “normal” because that’s all we know at the time. Perspective comes with age (allegedly). If you asked your Black & gay friends now about their experiences as teens I’m sure they’d all have stories for you. I grew up as a Black teen in CA in the 90s and my life was defined by my race. I have a lot of friends who moved down South because they preferred the “up front” racism of the South rather than the disingenuous racism of the West.
napalmthechild@reddit
I'm from the Bay Area. I think the worst part of this is seeing people you grew up with, kids you used to be on the playground with, grow up and start to adopt racist and sexist views. At one point we were all just people and then things just got categorized and divided as we got older. The drastic change in attitude definitely happened as soon as we left public high school and then further after 9/11. Maybe it's always been this way because as people get older they slowly adopt the political and religious values that their family held. The harder life gets (which it always does) the more scared the weak become and the more they are forced to choose a side or a faith.
Irving_Velociraptor@reddit
I can’t speak for your gay friends, but your Black friends definitely know bigotry existed.
MaleficentMousse7473@reddit
One of my male friends in high school had the distinction of being somewhat feminine and black. (Idk if he was gay because we didn’t make a big deal of it as OP points out). I was a crap friend because he got bullied hard by Black guys in the cafeteria for being gay and i just watched uncomfortably. Wtf, younger self??!
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Oh we did too. Lol
Mitka69@reddit
I am pretty sure that by and large the same attitude exist. But there is indeed kind of loud mouthed minority who amplifies everything. I call them generally "neo Marxsist" - a bunch of people who always look for a cause to fight, same as SJWs. With social media it has become particularly in your face.
There is indeed tendency to split into myriad of groups and I think this is done on purpose - to divide us so that we would be at each other throats instead of focusing on class warfare. At my wokplace we have society of women engineers, society of latino women engineers, society of young black proferssionals, LGBTQ+ safe space, LGBQT+ support group. And on and on it goes. Each group is a circlejerk where they issue each one awards every so often and apprear on company website.
BUT, with that, all "normal" people, who are in majority, avoid those groups like plague and continue to meet for beers at a bar, or bowling alley.
With all that said. Here is an anecdote. I have a friend of mine, who is gay. Never been a problem and here we were sitting at a coffee shop in Newport News and we a served coffee by someone of undefined gender with green hair and ear lobe inserts, septum piercing, etc. You know the works. And I made an off-hand remarkto the effect of what compels one to take time to dye their hair green and put all this shit into their bodies. And my friend gave me a sort of lecture about not fitting in, being able to change your body when you are not in peace with it and went to say how he suffered throughout his life becaue of his lifestyle/sexual orientation. It was kind of an eye opener. He thinks of himself nothing short of a martyr and a fighter for the right "to be himself" (his own worlds). One of the remarks he made - can you imagine what he had to go through in his youth (implyingh being subjected to violence) because of is sexual orientation. And I countered, well, you know, I have been in a few fights because of females. Nothing really special.
What I was trying to say, that this "we had this figured out" thing may be superfluous and minorities do have deep seated grievances that "normcore" people don't really understand.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Well said! And I too avoid those groups like the plague. I don’t care for my work to know my sexuality.
Muadeeb@reddit
We were told in the 90s that a colorblind society was the goal. Now, everybody uses their identity to rank themselves according to who's more oppressed and thus worthy of special treatment, as if being a victim makes you a moral person.
PsychoPir8@reddit
Exactly. Victimhood is status and an easy way to blame others for one’s own inadequacies, avoiding responsibility for everything.
alizayback@reddit
Gen Xer here. Are you sure we lived in the same timeline? Dude, do you remember what happened to gay men during the Reagan administration, just for starters?
mookiexpt2@reddit
I think that every time I see someone lamenting how race relations were so good in the 80s or 90s it’s a white person.
Ronald Reagan campaigned on explicitly racist themes. So did HW. NOTE I AM NOT SAYING EITHER PERSON IS RACIST OR THAT THEIR VOTERS WERE ALL OR EVEN MOSTLY RACISTS.
Rodney King.
The “Superpredator.”
A full page ad from a guy who’s about to be inaugurated calling for the death penalty for five black kids who were later exonerated.
The movie “Soul Man,” in which the hero wears blackface the whole fucking time to get a scholarship because everyone knows black students don’t have to have good grades to go to college.
We didn’t have a damn thing figured out. We just didn’t let PoC say anything.
MaleficentMousse7473@reddit
White GenXer also (making an assumption OP; sorry if I’m wrong). Some of my friends were Black, Asian, Gay as well. And that was all good, but the disparities between Black and White opportunities, healthcare outcomes, neighborhoods, interactions with police were all there and much likely worse than now. It was acceptable and quite mainstream to unconsciously standardize and center white-ness. Color-blind was the ideal, but clearly American society was not - otherwise there would have been statistical representation in advertisements, movies, TV. Long winded way to say that to really understand if things are better now, ask some older Black women, older Black men and older Gay / Trans people
Malgus-Somtaaw@reddit
I have spent my whole life putting people in 1 of 2 categories: cool or asshole. If you were a cool person, I would want to hang out with you and be friends, if you were an asshole then you could piss off. I never cared what color someone was, what God they prayed to, if they were gay, or who they voted for. But now everyone separates themselves by all those things and more. I miss the old ways.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
You may have been cool like that but trust most were not that accepting of gay people in the 90s. It was bad. I do agree that the million groups thing is ridiculous but based on my personal experience there is no way I would go back to the 90s
Backtothefuture1970@reddit
My dad was racist growing up ,but I didn't realize it until I was 10 or 11. Not overtly, but the kind making jokes and derogatory names used for black people.
I lived in low income apartments until I was 7, had just friends. Black and white alike.
Rhombus_McDongle@reddit
There are reports that say US schools have been resegregating since a 1991 supreme court case ended school desegregation. https://www.k12dive.com/news/school-segregation-changed-today/716178/
piefacedbeauty-@reddit
We didn’t have racism, bigotry or anything of the like figured out. I thought we did too, but we were young and the civil rights movement was only a couple of decades old. Roe v Wade was my age then. So young and new. These are two simple examples. In social groups, many were able to let that go and be good friends to each other, but in the bigger picture it wasn’t fixed. It was shameful then, and now it’s public and proud. I for one expected this world to be what it is. I fought against it and still do, but in the nineties it felt like I was rolling with change, and it was going along with us, and was not fighting as hard as I am now.
Fandango4Ever@reddit
I was completely oblivious to microaggressions, privilege, and inequality as a white young adult. I absolutely think racism was as rampant then as now, we just didn't talk about it if we were white. Because an issue is now publicly discussed more, doesn't mean it happens more. Watch some movies from the 80s and 90s and you will cringe at the racism you DIDNT SEE at the time.
search_for_freedom@reddit
Yes, when did being color blind become associated with hatred?
thelordwynter@reddit
It wasn't that way for me. I was quite the homophobe due to sexual abuse as a child. Didn't break free from it till I met a gay guy in my 20's who was more respectful to me than any woman ever has been. Still straight, but that guy opened my eyes by breaking the stereotypes, and I'm chill with the community now...
Having grown up in the south, it was easier to get away from the racism, ironically. My adoptive family owned a trucking fleet, and between the things I witnessed growing up in that household as they employed black drivers, and the utter bigotry that took place in the Pentecoastal School-Church I got sent to for my education gave me no chance to have blinders on. The hypocrisy was everywhere.
WhatTheHellPod@reddit
I guess the arbiter of this would Genxers who aren't straight white folks,
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Exactly . 90s 👎
RudeAd9698@reddit
There was an article on Reddit a couple days ago that the current situation was part of a destabilization of the West plan implemented by Russia in the 1990s.
Step One was to sow disinformation until everyone can no longer accept or believe truth anymore, Step Two was to pit subcultures against each other until we can no longer communicate, and Step Three dismantle our election system so that the government can be easily overthrown and replaced with something else.
Angelic72@reddit
Good observation. Back then we just had friends. We didn’t have to say we had black friends or gay friends, etc…
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Because the gay guys were all in the closet. Ask an actual gay guy that grew up in the 90s
Loyal-Opposition-USA@reddit
Sadly, it wasn’t figured out. You just had good friends.
The awful people just felt uncomfortable expressing their awful views. It’s almost like someone or something emboldened them to be their worst selves.
midtownmel@reddit
I agree wholeheartedly. I went to high school in the 90s and that’s how it was for me. We were taught to be colorblind and lived our lives according. Sure, there were rasist assholes here and there but it wasn’t nearly as charged as it is now. Same for gay people. We just didn’t care and all of us got along. It really feels like we’ve regressed terribly
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
and that’s really my point. We just didn’t care. Now it’s all anyone cares about. People can yell here saying that I said we solved racism. We didn’t and that’s not what I was saying and people know that but it’s Reddit.
go_west_til_you_cant@reddit
You didn't care because it wasn't your problem. The fact that you guys are saying "sure there were racist assholes but I didn't care" speaks volumes. You ignored it because it didn't affect you. That doesn't mean it wasn't there. For those of us who felt it day and day out, it mattered and we cared.
midtownmel@reddit
No, I’m saying they were in the minority and ostracized. This probably varied from region to region but where I grew up race just wasn’t something we thought much about. We all just got along.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
Because those groups getting crapped on had no voice and you were in a position to not see their abuse.
Guilty_Signal_6363@reddit
It was not that way for most of us gay kids. The 90s were awful.
Question910@reddit
You’re right. And we all knew it. The 2000’s broke a lot of orioles brains for a myriad of reasons.
HenryGoodsir@reddit
Republican culture wars is almost always the answer to why things suck now.
VincentAntonelli@reddit
My dude, the 90s was filled with racism and bigotry… I can’t even start with examples, like.. how is this even being questioned?
HamBone868@reddit
I think that racism became a thing again around the George Zimmerman trial. All of a sudden, everything was divided along racial lines again. I too felt like we were headed in the right direction on race before that. We had elected a black president. Our generation did that. Gays got marriage rights. Again, our generation. Then all of a sudden we’re ultra-racist again? Come on, man.
frog980@reddit
The government wants us divided into all these small groups to put us against one another. If it wasn't for them trying to cater to one group, then another we probably would get along pretty well
Big_Life3502@reddit
You can thank media outlets for stoking those flames
ComeWithMe-429@reddit
Tbh if the media and the like would stay out of it, we’d be a whole hell of a lot better off. They fuel A LOT!
ConfidenceOk1855@reddit
Ever hear of Rodney King?
SamMeowAdams@reddit
First. Thank you for this post and discussion. We need more of this .
I think you are looking through history with rose colored glasses .
As a Gen X you remember the Rodney King beating ? Well that never stopped . We had Gorge Floyd decades later.
Nothing was figured out. Minorities just have more power now and are not being silenced like in the past.
OppositeDish9086@reddit
This is what I get for just being oblivious for years, but I think I understand. I grew up around all kinds of people, black, white, Asian, Hispanic etc, gay or straight, and everyone all seemed pretty cool with each other. In the last ten years of hearing so much about diversity and racism and homophobia, I never understood why it felt like it was really being hammered on so much. I honestly thought things were steadily improving and we were moving forward. Guess not?
Retirednypd@reddit
I agree. And politics wasn't as big of an issue. I don't know know if that's good or bad. But I just discussed this with a friend of mine, also gen x. We were patriotic with the wars in the early 90s but e didn't look at anything thru a republican vs Democrat lens. When Clinton was the president the Republicans were ok, same with when the bush's were in office. Maybe because they were more middle of the road, and there was no social media.
BudFox_LA@reddit
Agreed
talrich@reddit
My gay friends weren’t better off in the 90’s.
I believe racism, sexism, integration, and bigotry issues were in a worse place in the 90’s, but things felt better because many policies and circumstances were moving in the right direction.
The problem is, as a society, we’ve done most of the easy things and there’s still enormous issues (e.g. wealth gap), so progress appears to have stopped, which is frustrating.
BrightAd306@reddit
But is the wealth gap fixable? You can mandate equal opportunities, but not outcomes. Some people are smarter than others. Some are willing to work more hours. Some choose work-life balance over a bigger paycheck. Some choose a job that is more fulfilling over a bigger paycheck.
RCA2CE@reddit
Why does it have to be mandated and why is it important that stem or humanities have a percent of men or women in them? People can choose their career field and the most qualified people should get the related jobs. I don’t think we should care that there are more fireman than firewomen - I want competent firefighters
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
It has to be mandated because humans have shown time and again they are unwilling and/or unable to be fair in their hiring practices.
RCA2CE@reddit
It’s already illegal to discriminate in hiring. We don’t have to argue this because the Supreme Court already said that those preferences/mandates aren’t legal.
keyboardbill@reddit
Right. Problem solved.
/s
RCA2CE@reddit
Do you discriminate when you hire?
You can stop doing that if you do.
keyboardbill@reddit
Oh yeah that'll fix it.
RCA2CE@reddit
It’s degrading that you’re not able to articulate a solution so you make quips. The law makes it illegal to discriminate. What would you offer instead? That we should go above and beyond following the law by handing out jobs and promotions to less qualified people because of their race or gender? That’s your solution?
Good one
keyboardbill@reddit
I see no reason to engage with your "I'm not a racist but..." argument anymore than I already have.
RCA2CE@reddit
Using small and large letters doesn’t make your position more credible or mine less. You think someone should receive preferential treatment in hiring, promotions and school admissions based on race or gender and I don’t. I think objective measures of merit should be used.
You can type ridiculously all you want but you can’t back up that awful position you have. rIGhT?
keyboardbill@reddit
I would be fine with "oBjEcTiVe MeAsUrEs oF MeRiT" if there was no racial or gender discrimination. It appears that discrimination is of no concern to you. I have an idea why...
RCA2CE@reddit
As I said discrimination is illegal. You think this is my words but the Supreme Court has ruled your position is illegal as have numerous states and every day you see Fortune 500 companies scrapping their DEI programs because they were discriminatory.
You’re gaslighting me while I’m saying we should be treated equally and you think people are incapable of that so you have to give preference to someone - and YES absolutely the minute you give preference to someone you disadvantage someone else.
You don’t want equality- you want preference and that’s BS
keyboardbill@reddit
The lie you tell yourself to sleep at night. Enjoy your rest.
RCA2CE@reddit
I will sleep well, to date nobody has tried to discriminate against me because I’m tall. I suppose you will find a way to demonize height though.
keyboardbill@reddit
Suppose you have been practicing that one. I don’t imagine you have been waiting to use it. Good job.
annnamal@reddit
What about applicants that have “connections”? How many times have you heard someone get a job because they “knew someone”? This is just one advantage that dei helps even they playing field with.
RCA2CE@reddit
How specifically does DEI impact that?
YoureSooMoneyy@reddit
AMEN.
keyboardbill@reddit
PuLL yoUrSelF uP By tHe bOoTsTrApS.
SMH.
BrightAd306@reddit
Did I say that? I said you’re never going to have equal outcomes because people make their own choices, but you can try and provide equal resources.
I for one, chose a degree in something that was lower paying but had higher work-life balance and Im not even a little sorry. I feel sorry for people who work 60 hours a week, even if they’re rewarded for it.
keyboardbill@reddit
Whether or not you're aware of it, that's exactly what you said. What logically follows from the 'equal outcomes' argument "If you want wealth, go get it." Or, stated differently. "PuLL yoUrSelF uP By tHe bOoTsTrApS".
SMH.
Its not the fact that a social worker makes X and an engineer makes Y. That is not the driver behind the wealth gap. It's the fact that a social worker or engineer from one group makes more than a social worker or engineer from another. It's the fact that there are more structural barriers for some groups than others on the road to becoming a social worker or an engineer. It's the fact that the homes they buy are valued according to what group they belong to. I could go on. But I'm sure you've heard all these things before.
BrightAd306@reddit
No it’s not. I believe in social safety nets for people who cannot work. I don’t believe in equalizing pay across all sectors.
That’s also simply not true. Engineers make money according to how good they are, if someone wants more money, they should ask for more. Social workers are usually paid by the government and it’s based on experience. You’re saying all these things that have no data behind them.
ElYodaPagoda@reddit
No. I think we should live within our means, and quit being so envious of those who have more.
joshp23@reddit
Have we tried eating the rich? I don't think we've tried that yet, so... maybe?
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
We, the Gen Xers, have bought into the very system some of us abhorred 30 years ago. So "we" won't be eating the rich.
joshp23@reddit
Keep faith. There's maybe still enough of us with a hankering for a bourgeoise burger to make a difference.
Remember, only YOU can prevent ... well, you get the picture.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
I hope you are right <3
Care_Novel@reddit
Can we do this before I win the lotto please
joshp23@reddit
Your optimism is noteworthy.
Care_Novel@reddit
lol
HarveyMushman72@reddit
At our age, we have to watch our cholesterol. The woodchipper does not, however.
joshp23@reddit
I hate to waste all those calories, though. We just need free-range, grass-fed billionaires, and to remember to share the meat and not gorge. Boom! Problem solved.
abelenkpe@reddit
I also agree with this. It wasn’t that bigotry didn’t exist in the 90s. It’s just that people were not openly bigoted. If you were a bigot you lost your job or were looked down on. There were no support groups for bigots like today where people with ugly attitudes can reassure themselves (internet) so being a bigot was looked down on. Now our politicians, pundits and leaders are openly bigoted and that is really disturbing. There have been a lot of gains with laws protecting vulnerable groups and more widespread acceptance through social media. But there have also been significant losses legally and the rise of open bigotry. Mixed bag and honestly feel it’s worse.
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
There were many, many people who were openly bigoted.
I do agree that social media and our political landscape have emboldened these people, though.
Blossom73@reddit
I agree. Well said.
Wetschera@reddit
They burned my asshole out without proper anesthesia and I was paralyzed for an entire day in 1995. I was sent home to die and a nurse stole opioids with the consenting signature from a physician. They covered it up.
It was not better in the 90s.
All I did was to touch myself.
Terrible-D@reddit
Excuse me?
Wetschera@reddit
At UW Madison in 1995 on November 22, I went in for surgery to remove warts. I had them in my hands and was being treated for them. I also have diverticulosis. I got constipated.
The attending physician was the same as the year before when the removed my appendix even though I had diverticulitis. His name is Bruce Harms. The surgical resident is named James Maloney.
They tortured my at UW Health in Madison, Wisconsin. I went in at 10:30 am and woke up in unimaginable pain around 1:30 pm. They pushed fluids and I decompensated. I almost died and they catheterized me. I was paralyzed until about 11:30 pm and was discharged at 11:56 pm. Since I was in the blood pressure cuff all day I was at risk for compartment syndrome. They didn’t do the blood tests until 1:13 am after they sent me home. The nurse stole opioids and the doctors signed off on it after I was not there.
She was investigated in 1998 so the local DA and the police knew about it.
No one did anything to help me until I found paper medical records scanned into MyChart when I moved back to Madison in 2018. If that can be called help, at all.
crackedtooth163@reddit
My god.
I am so sorry.
Wetschera@reddit
Thank you.
If only it got better.
Wetschera@reddit
https://www.uwhealth.org/providers/james-d-maloney-md
Tell him I said this and see if I get sued for defamation. I won’t because I have the medical records. I can prove it.
DryGeologist3328@reddit
I remember there was a kid in my neighborhood who was somewhat feminine acting. Certain kids in the neighborhood would use all the slurs against him that were popular in the 90s and one day my friend, my older sister, and I were walking home and these boys that typically picked on him had dug a hole in the dirt and were attempting to bury him in it. Luckily, we were older and threatened to beat the shit out of them. They cussed us out, but they ran away and we were able to get him out. The main bully in this group of kids had also called me several racial slurs over the years and his mom totally supported it. I’ll never forget him, he was a buck toothed blond kid with a mullet.
Yeah, the 90s were great in many ways, but the experiences of marginalized groups was vastly different then the rose colored experiences of some other groups.
SpicyDisaster1996@reddit
I'm using a different view with this. I think that location plays a huge part in this. Myself and my husband both grew up in small farming communities. Small towns. At one point in the 90's we had cross burning in front lawns. Myself and a couple other friends who are gay were bullied to the point one almost left the Earth. Ten miles up the road in larger town it was completely the opposite. There are three towns that are all with in a five mile radius that are all extremely tolerant compared to the little town I grew up in. And we do not live in the south.
fjvgamer@reddit
When you say "we got it figured out" you mean Californians?
It's a huge country.
Poneke365@reddit
Yeah man, I feel you as I think so too. I thought our generation was the turning point of acceptance and being non-judgemental of everybody no matter their race, sexuality or gender but damn, some Gen Xers have turned into mf Boomers with their racist attitudes, bigotry and sense of entitlement :/ That ain’t cool
brunerd@reddit
Agreed, I’m over being shocked by how far it seems we’ve regressed. But it still saddens me.
Top_Competition_4496@reddit
24/7 news cycle + social media = toxic as hell
Things were good enough in the 90s that I had the optimism to have 3 kids, so I think you're right. The warning signs were there (Ruby Ridge, Waco, Oklahoma City, etc), but the Internet opened Pandora's box and let the evil out. (The myth tells us that Hope remains)
Icy_Profession7396@reddit
I blame Trump. #IBlameTrump
Jeb-o-shot@reddit
It’s because opportunities for each generation after X got worse and when that happens people look for blame. The 90s were really the last great American decade.
over_kill71@reddit
yes. genx totally had it figured out and going in a great direction.
Jimmy-the-Knuckle@reddit
As a Latino on the West Coast, racism was deeply ingrained in my upbringing in the 80s and 90s. Even by Whites who thought they were being friendly. It wasn’t broadcast as widely as it is now but let’s not kid ourselves that it didn’t live in the souls of American culture at the time.
Ok-Asparagus-4044@reddit
No you didn’t have shit figured out. Y’all just made assumptions about people’s lifestyles and called their foods weird with your parents who would be so ‘impressed’ at how articulate some minorities were. For the most part, the white kids stuck to their table, the black kids their table, the Asians their table, etc
Conscious-Big707@reddit
Me as a person of color and also Gen x wholeheartedly disagrees with you. Maybe in your little circle in California from your perspective but I was living in the midwest surrounded by all white people. Have you asked your bipoc friends what they think?
AnasandSF@reddit
“I don’t see color” dismisses people of color’s real experiences. That’s not actually the opposite of racism.
On any issues, I’d listen to those most directly affected and take their lead. Where I live (also California,) understanding and respecting specific histories and ongoing barriers is essential for true respect. Not erasing color. People of color facing continued discrimination don’t have that luxury.
TimeTravelator@reddit
Welcome to the wonderful world of identity politics, my friend.
Everything today is framed by the media to highlight “hot button” characteristics that pidgeonhole each and every human being into their associated group identity.
One can no longer just be described as an individual. One has to be described in terms of gender, age, race, location, origin, height and weight, disability, vulnerability, sexual orientation, employment status, income or property value, and blood type.
Well not so much blood type. Just all the rest. And all that forcible prejudging makes bigots of us all.
ShutYourDumbUglyFace@reddit
I graduated from a black high school in 1994 then went to engineering school at my state university that was joint with an HBCU (super easy to figure out where - it's the only joint engineering school in the country).
We did not have racism figured out in the 1990s. Not even close.
DucVWTamaKrentist@reddit
I’m with you. When I grew up in Akron, Ohio in the 80’s, it was better than it is now. I can’t put my finger on why, but this climate now is terrible. I still treat people as individuals though. It’s how I grew up, and I can never change. If you’re a cool person, I can hang with you, no matter what your background is. If you’re not cool, even if your background is different from mine, I have no use for you in my life. Yeah, I guess I still see the world through rose colored glasses today, just like how my grandfather thought I vieweed the world back then.
heatherbabydoll@reddit
Personally I think Obama having had the nerve to win the election deeply offended certain people and they can’t wait to get even.
majorflojo@reddit
This. A lot of more white folks than we suspected are a lot more comfortably racist than we thought white folks could be.
AnotherDoubtfulGuest@reddit
All this post tells me is that you’re white and the people of color around you don’t talk to you about how they feel about race or racism. Because no black, brown, or Asian person would say with a straight face that America had racism “figured out“ at any point in its history.
rosmaniac@reddit
Well, in the mid to late eighties while I was in college I had several sets of three roommates over several semesters in the school-managed housing that was offered. The first semester I had all white roommates. I could tell some tales, by the way, of them. Second semester, I had three black roommates, and that pattern was repeated until my fifth semester, during the early part of which the apartment was burglarized, apparently by two of my roommates. After a bunch of drama culminating in the place getting shot up by a 12 gauge, I moved out to housing that wasn't school-managed.
I guess I got black roommates because my name is commonly regarded as a 'black' name. Like OP said, I just considered them my roommates like any other. But there were three of the twelve that were hell bent for shoe leather for reparations, and they were down right hateful to me or any of my other roommates that didn't feel the same. One was in the first set, and two were in the last set.
The other nine were great roommates with one exception, who ran up my phone bill calling his girl in Ft. Lauderdale for hours on end; he used an old hack for getting 'free' long distance that bit me bad a couple of months later, after he had moved out. $1,700 worth of long distance charges, as much as three months' worth of my share of the rent.
One of the eight was from Harlem, and I spooked him bad. He told me I was a dangerous man. I laughed and asked him why he thought that. He said it was because I was too calm; calm people were the dangerous ones in his neighborhood. I never could get him to believe I wasn't a dangerous man, though. I liked him and his 7'-4" friend, who liked me because I helped them out with homework and treated them with basic respect. They were just great guys. I lost track of them after the place got shot up.
Another was from "De-troy-it" (that's the way he pronounced it, just like Gordon Lightfoot does in "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald") who worked at Burger King and, since I would come pick him up at midnight when his shift would end he got me all the leftover burgers I could eat. Great guy, liked him a lot.
But the three I mentioned before were bitter, and were quite difficult. There was nothing I could do to convince them I wasn't against them, and they had the mindset that I was racist simply because I was white, and that believing that was not in and of itself racist. And they were convinced that I personally owed them a living; in their mind I was supposed to work, hand over all my money to them, and they would sit around and do nothing but sleep all day be with their girlfriends all night (they were even more hateful to the black women than they were to me, calling them 'females' and other names, anything except 'women' and they'd have four or five at a time vying for their attention, very demeaning to those ladies). That was only those three; the others were much more respectful to their girlfriends and to ladies in general.
Drugs were a bit of an issue, especially with the last two sets of roommates. More than once I'd come home to the distinct odor of freebased cocaine, and I got pretty familiar with the symptoms of a licked acid stamp. And of course the bug buster smell was pervasive and ubiquitous.
So, a story about that: they kept hounding me to try weed or freebasing or lick a stamp or whatever and I just kept telling them no. They wouldn't take no for an answer, told me I'd like it.
While I was at home for the fall break, I told my dad about it, and he gave me an idea, and explained to me some of the possible reasons why they were hounding me about it. So, the idea: There was a small stand of rabbit tobacco growing on the place, and so I picked some, ground it fine in a mortar, and made nickel bags of "rabbit weed" to take back. The next time they hounded me about drugs, I showed them a bag of "rabbit weed" and said that was the real stuff; they swallowed that hook, line, and sinker. What I didn't tell them was that I chewed/dipped it; it's a folk remedy for allergies and asthma; I had tried smoking it before and I knew exactly what they were getting ready to experience. The anti-asthma effect is from smoking it, by the way, which is counterintuitive, but my dad said it worked for him a few times, even with the very unpleasant primary side effect of severe nausea, especially the first time smoking it.
So they commenced to smoking it (yes, I joined them; I was prepared and knew how to deal with it). Every last one of them got "green in the gills" while bragging about how good it was. They never asked me about drugs again. It was of course totally harmless, if unpleasant. Even if I strongly disagreed with it, I didn't hold their drug usage against them, either; for better or for worse it was a culture thing. Perhaps my sharing my rabbit tobacco satisfied a cultural thing; I don't know. Like a peace pipe of the native Americans, perhaps. Or maybe they thought that if I could handle rabbit tobacco nothing else would faze me.
Other than the three (plus the one) they were great guys and I considered them my "roommates" not my "black roommates." I hope they understood that and considered me as just another roommate, not their "white roommateu."
KookyComfortable6709@reddit
Now we are sinking back into the dark ages. The 90s were so great!
Nightcalm@reddit
I am in the odd position of being born and for a small portion of my life lived during Jim Crow laws here in the deep South. I heard more racial insults from whites that were just awful (I am white). My mom and dad were from here but were very liberal which at that time meant you were against racial segregation. Then the civil rights movement came and much of the obvious things like official "whites only" rules and customs shifted over time. However to anwer the OPs question, today I can close my eyes and hear the tone, the rigid, strident tones of those times seem like they are back in fashion. The noise about DEI is like the same arguments that boiled around affirmative action back in the 70s.
Maybe we aren't sliding as far as it looks, maybe we really weren't as far ahead as we thought we were.
Leprrkan@reddit
This.
sunqueen73@reddit
Disagree.
People make assumptions of class based on race a lot of times. There's a hierarchy of thinking.
I've had fellow random GenX to Boomers on the street and work colleagues, call me the n-word, assume my daughter doesn't know her father, assume I'm a poor welfare queen and on food stamps, turn away when I walk up to retail counters and ignore my pleas for assistance, slam doors if I'm coming in behind them... most of that in the last 20 years.
My daughter's schools every year have to send home notices of Rachel incidents and epithets at school.
And we're on "liberal" California. The seat of progressivism and equity. 😒😒😒
Leprrkan@reddit
Maybe ask your black or gay friends how they feel/felt about it.
It always seems to be straight, white guys (and some women) who have this bullshit take.
Dry_Tear1634@reddit
Barack Obama made it all worse.
cmuadamson@reddit
I don't think racism has increased per se. I think there are more voices you can hear, including people who have been racist.
I also think there are more people pointing out racism, and most significantly, more people using perceived "racism" as a weapon. This is disappointing beause it dillutes the word, and more people will roll their eyes at yet another accusation of racism.
Sweet_Mulberry8526@reddit
I agree with you. Not that we “figured it out” we ALL were in the same boat, our parents were trying to put food on the table AND the lights on so we were all left to our own devices…I’m the same now, I don’t care about color or sexual preference and neither do my friends. We love each other. And I’m not from Cali, I’m a midwest girl
Phyllis_Gabor@reddit
We’ve definitely regressed HARD. All the progress we made as a society is being pretty much eroded and it’s sad, really. Trying to figure out where to move to that less hateful.
Ill_Sky6141@reddit
They could ban all social media tomorrow and I'd be singing in the streets. Literally singing.
cmuadamson@reddit
What do we get for banning Tiktoc on Sunday?
A video of you singing in your backyard?
jacksraging_bileduct@reddit
People are more divided now than we were back in the 90’s
Accomplished-Back663@reddit
I know exactly what you are saying I am a southern born Gen x an racism was dead, no one cared about your race or anyone else's race. And then it came back... it's media an government driven. They seen us all united and it scared them.
MaxiSexus@reddit
Columbine, 9/11, Al Gore's 2000 election loss, and Britney Spears (The Music Business's Capitalist reaction to the internet's threat of free music by selling sex) destroyed what was happening in the 90s. . . and Facebook, Kanye West, and The Kardashians put the nails in humanity's coffin.
CaptainSuperfluous@reddit
Just because you didn't think it was a thing doesn't mean it wasn't a thing for people who were on the other end of the situation. People didn't suddenly become bigots again after 10 years of equitable bliss.
YikesManStrikes@reddit
There's micro vs macro levels to this. Just like the 90's there's plenty of friend groups now that feature all ethnicities and whatever else. That anecdotal example isn't inditicive of racism existing or not existing in society though.
There seems to be a pattern in America where racial tensions fade when minorities aren't vocal about what they experience/fight for chance, but as soon as they speak up about it and explain their grievances you get the automatic push back to any suggestion that racism still exists or better yet the modern version which is "racism against white people is the real race problem" nonsense.
We can't look at our individual bubbles and automatically come to the conclusion of that being how it is across the entire landscape of the country.
Progress has definitely been made, but there's still lots to work on.
sugahack@reddit
We didn't think about it like that because the public discourse hadn't gotten there yet. We didn't see the inherent racism because it wasn't directed at us. People are over here acting like DEI was something woke libtards made up just to upset the apple cart. Meanwhile anyone who wasn't straight cis and white was supposed to grin and bear it because that's just the way things were
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
This, exactly. I'm sad to see so many of my fellow Gen Xers really trying to act like we had it all figured out back then. Too many have those nostalgic rose colored glasses on.
Gourmeebar@reddit
It’s very offensive
Sassy_Weatherwax@reddit
I think there were some things that were better, but certainly not "we had racism and homophobia figured out."
sugahack@reddit
I don't get the nostalgia. Life wasn't idyllic back then. We just didn't have the 24 hour news cycle screaming at us. We didn't have a platform where others who were struggling could have their voices heard. It may have felt better because you didn't have to confront how the same system that made your life so carefree was at the expense of others
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Boom. Nailed it. I've never gotten the nostalgia either. I roll my eyes *hard* when people my age wax poetic about how great the 90s were. They weren't.
sugahack@reddit
We're going to be the boomers only more bitter
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Yes, it's already happening and we're already being lumped in with the boomers by Gen Z and Millennials. I gotta say: they're not entirely wrong.
pealsmom@reddit
Very much this. I grew up in the south and racism has always been a problem there. I can’t even count the number of micro aggressions. I experienced in high school but specifically as the only black kid in my AP English class there were two boys who were outwardly racist towards me and my our white teacher not only supported them, but when I was the only person to receive a top score on the final AP test, told me to my face that she didn’t think that I would’ve been the one to get that score. We knew that a business that had the Confederate flag in the window did not want us to come in. At the college at the college I went to the most popular fraternity had an annual Blue and Gray ball where the frat brothers dressed up in civil war uniforms, depending on what part of the country they were from. The head of that fraternity had a huge confederate flag on the wall in his bedroom. I could go on, but this is just a tiny tiny fraction of what I personally experienced in the 80s growing up in the south as a Black woman.
crackedtooth163@reddit
I would have said "I know, I had a shitty teacher"
pealsmom@reddit
sugahack@reddit
I can't wrap my head around what that would have felt like. One experience that helped me get a better contextualize was when I was in high school I think a friend and I were watching TV and something came on with a lady saying she was colorblind and that we all are all just sisters in the eyes of God. My friend was like honey you ain't my sister, you didn't grow up in my hood. When you're the beneficiary of systemic privilege, it's easy to think that being colorblind is the answer, when listening to the lived experience of the ones directly impacted is a much better place to start
GypsyKaz1@reddit
So much this
knt1229@reddit
As a black person, sure I had white friends in school but I never saw them outside of school same with work. In the 90s, people were still openly homophobic. It was ok to call someone the f word. There was still a noticeable divide between the races. No, Gen X didn't have it figured out. Gen X just wasn't as openly racist as generations before but racism was still there in the 90s.
Ohio_gal@reddit
No one is openly racist when they are getting their way and their world view is not challenged. That’s because you didn’t have to be. If the natural order of things is that YOU are on top, no need to think about people who aren’t. Meanwhile, the aids epidemic had just subsided but I distinctly remember people being afraid of gay people because the assumption was they had aids. I distinctly remember mathew Shepard who was murdered because he was gay. Don’t ask don’t tell? Yep.
Moving to race, Rodney King. James Byrd? Stop and Fisk, the war on drugs (which was always color coded), “welfare queens” mass incarceration (also color coded).
I think the edit was right. It existed, most didn’t care. And that is nothing to be proud of.
knt1229@reddit
Agree 10000%
Rocky_Vigoda@reddit
I'm Canadian. One of the big differences is that we never really had the same history of slavery or segregation as the US so I was raised around 'black' people and other people from a variety of ethnic backgrounds. I was raised to ignore labels and just use people's names.
MLK's core goal was for Americans to integrate and get 'black' people out of the ghetto.
Malcolm X said he was naïve and that the US power class wouldn't allow it.
https://youtu.be/T3PaqxblOx0?si=d6WyvcJ5Y4iIs2bR
60 years later, Chicago had 600 murders, over 2800 people shot last year. 75% of them were 'black'.
The US never actually integrated or ended segregation. Gen-X started with colourblind integrated values but adopted PC values in the 90s when you guys were forced to adopt the African-American label. It introduced a form of cultural segregation.
knt1229@reddit
I agree that segregation never ended.
TexanInNebraska@reddit
I am old enough that I lived through the Civil Rights era. I can remember colored only and whites only seating on the buses. Colored only and whites only restrooms and drinking fountains. And yes, things pretty much settled down and although there were always be racism, it wasn’t as a big deal until Obama came along and started making everything about racism again and stirring division between all the races, the gays, and everyone you pointed out.
Jhasten@reddit
OP - this was not my experience growing up in the northeast and then middle of the country. I have a lot of memories during the AIDS scare of my friends getting “gay bashed” and assaulted, local police targeting people of different colors and religions, “gay” being used as a slur, etc. It’s n the latter 90s and early 2000s I remember this changing for the better but it then ramped back up after 9/11 and again recently. But again, this is my experience as a white person.
Earthling_Like_You@reddit
People like Martin Luther King, Michael Jackson, Prince, Robin Williams and others who've passed on used to play a huge role in keeping us united. Especially during tough times.
When our icons passed on, our world lost more than entertainers, leaders. Our world lost unifier's. Lovers of human kind. Lovers of mankind.
Our world lost men who could have literally prevented what we're experiencing today.
Their voice and their influence was big, was loud, went far.
I miss them. I love them. May they rest in peace.
And please don't comment with rumor, media bs. The dead can't defend themselves. Leave it alone. I don't care about your ugly opinion.
deejackson70@reddit
I agree✌🏻
milapathy64@reddit
There's a reason you didnt hear as much from POC. If we ever got loud about an issue, we were told we where being uppity and to shut up. Now we aren't as quiet about our issues.
amibeingdetained50@reddit
I grew up in California too. I went to a very diverse, albeit, small school. We didn't care. Gay, straight, black, hispanic, middle eastern, asian, white, or mixed. It just wasn't a thing growing up. I think social media causes a lot of the division now.
IAmAnEediot@reddit
j4yne@reddit
I was about to start writing paragraphs... but naw. I'll sit here with you.
SurviveStyleFivePlus@reddit
I didn't have the energy to post a GIF, so I gladly give you my upvote.
rahnbj@reddit
Lol
TheEpicGenealogy@reddit
It’s just more socially acceptable now, since the orange monster came into office it’s been normalized. Being an asshole is a flex now.
hvacmac7@reddit
Rich and poor are the only 2 races that matter in America
Jasons_Psyche@reddit
It was like this in many places on the West Coast and I sure miss it. My husband grew up in Charlotte ,NC and he had similar experiences, was in a prog metal band with two black members and two white members, and himself mixed, so on.
StreetPhilosopher42@reddit
This is incorrect. racism, sexism, ableism, and general bigotry have been alive and well in the United States since forever. There were pockets of place and space where people could ignore it, given cultural or social differences, but the average person who wasn’t white and male back in the 90’s had very different experiences overall than us white folks did. We have always been able to ignore race and its impact on humans, because whiteness has been the default this whole time.
Our remembrance of a ‘past that was so much better for (insert whatever thing or idea you want here)’ is always, always, always, devoid of historical context. Generally, recall of ‘a simpler time’ NEVER includes the experiences of minorities of all kinds of you weren’t a member of that minority.
All that said, there are lots of reasons why we think this way, and there are lots of reasons why it FEELS different and more antagonistic now. One of the most salient reasons in the US is that being kind and reasonable has been politically vilified as somehow weak or emasculating, so we are seeing more public displays of bigotry than those of us who came of age in the 80’s and 90’s, and who are white, didn’t notice back when. We didn’t notice, because our day-to-day well being didn’t depend on noticing it. But it’s always been awful, and it’s always been present.
As more racial, sexual, religious, and gender minorities have started to demand to be seen as they actually are and not forced to fit into an unreasonably restrictive social box of self presentation, the old guard (whoever they may be) has been just as vocal about how bad it is that people who don’t fit an extremely particular mold want to be treated with basic dignity and respect as fellow humans.
NONE of this is new. But some of it is now more obvious because those minority groups are no longer willing to just shut up, go away, or die without a public, visible fight. Social media and electronic connectivity has made much of this fight much more publicly available in a shorter time frame. But the bigotry has always been there, alive and well, making people who fall into minority categories extremely uncomfortable or putting them in downright dangerous situations for no other reason than white male sexually straight supremacy fever dreams.
Remarkable-Foot9630@reddit
Everything was figured out until the Obama administration. (I voted for him)
Im_tracer_bullet@reddit
Riiight....thanks, Obama!
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
Yep
Admissionslottery@reddit
Complete agreement
Finding_Way_@reddit
I recall people just kind of doing their thing when I was growing up.
It was....WHATEVER...
But that could be because my parents were woke before woke was a thing
Fred_Krueger_Jr@reddit
Progressive activists have made everything about race over the last few years and it's getting old. Making those who are adopted by their bullsh!t seem like racists when they're not. Simple.
SortaNotReallyHere@reddit
I don't knownif it's just something happening in my small group of acquaintances but people in their late 50s are showing signs of significant personality and changed to now openly support anything that's not white and straight. It's fucking gross and disappointing. Here's to cutting more social cancer out of my life.
Bagheera383@reddit
Same. My parents brought up these "issues" with me when I had friends outside of my race(s)/ethnicity(ies). White friends were the exception though - they never brought up my white friends' race/ethnicity. My parents are boomers who are also ethnic/racial minorities and it seemed to matter more to them than it did to me and my siblings. I noticed that when there were ethnic minorities in cartoons and movies it wasn't a plot point or virtue signaling - they just existed as characters. It's a lot different now
starjammer69@reddit
It was there in the 90s and I’m afraid it will probably always be around. Social media is a big part of that because now people can sit behind their keyboards and lash out against someone without facing that person as an individual. It’s much easier to be mean to others when you don’t really know who they are like we did when we were kids. We didn’t talk to people that we didn’t see face to face until the internet came and introduced us to bulletin boards. Those got pretty heated at times because that was definitely more anonymous and easy to hide behind.
CA5P3R_1@reddit
We tend to look at the past through rose -colored glasses. While I viewed my friends like you did back then, the 90's were pretty divisive racially with things like the Rodney King beating and the O.J. trial occuring.
J_Leep@reddit
Nope. GenX did NOT have racism figured out or dealt with it better.
I’m GenX. I’m Black and from small town America (Chautauqua County, NY area to be exact)
Groups/cliques would have one or two minorities in them. Too many and folks would get “uncomfortable”.
MTV wouldn’t play Black artists (David Bowie even brought this up) until Michael Jackson basically forced them to.
My senior year of high school (85-86) Friends by Whodini was chosen as the class song. That was until some complained and another song was “added”. (Something by Bowie and possibly the lead singer of Queen?)
Plus Ryan White, HIV, and Indiana?
Marginalized groups were still marginalized but with fewer media outlets the message was more muted/contained.
HopefulTrick3846@reddit
I’m from California also (Los Angels) also, and I used to believe the same thing. Until the Rodney King riots.
ayyabduction@reddit
I agree OP. Sometime around 2014 it started to become racist to not be racist. Meaning, you needed to recognize everyone's identity and their differences. Like it or not it's what got republicans back into power and made Trump popular.
Ecstatic_Tea_5739@reddit
I remember thinking the same about the sixties. Age of Aquarius, Peace and love. We seemed ready to put away petty differences and come together like no other generation could or would. 'Tis a pity.
No-Detective-524@reddit
It's been a big shock to see that progress doesn't always keep and can be undone really quickly.
No-Detective-524@reddit
Absolutely feel the same way. I think when we grew up there wasn't much focus on race in particular while at the same time there was a big push about everyone being the same despite how we might look different. I also think schools seems to be more diverse. Not sure if it's just my experience bc I grew up in larger cities and now live more rural.
SilverNo1051@reddit
I grew up in CA and genX . POC here. Not to burst your bubble but POC people growing up were silenced and ignored. Overt racism was a thing and is still a thing now
Raineyb1013@reddit
And if you did say something the adults would gaslight you. Becky and her gaggle of Karens weren't being nasty to you because your the only Black kid in your grade in that combination class. You must vmbe doing something. They don't bother the older Black girl
It must have been a coincidence that out of a group of 6 teens the cops only harassed the three Black teens about filling out their transportation pass (even though NO ONE ever filled that shit out.)
Pre3Chorded@reddit
Yeah this is all so dumb. The 1990's started with SoCal exploding with the racist LA Cops beating a black man on live tv which generated massive riots. Then OJ Simpson got arrested in SoCal for murdering his wife and then he got acquitted because his lawyers proceed the cops running the investigation had a history of racist actions (cf Mark Furman). That's just stuff of the top of my head. Republicans also had a major major national freak out when a TV show in the 1990's had an out gay character btw.
This dude saying he doesn't think the 1990's had racism, bigotry, etc. says more about the author than SoCal in the 1990's.
SilverNo1051@reddit
POC were told to shut up or get out so we just kept quiet. We’re just not as quiet anymore so that might be why OP is feeling that way
jessewest84@reddit
Look at media after occupy wall street and the tea party movement.
Two groups left and right came together on common cause.
The establishment cannot have that and remain in power.
Now. I think there are still a lot of racial and sexual orientation tensions in this country and in the west.
But it's orders of magnitude less than what the media presented.
They must have us divided or they lose their power.
CapotevsSwans@reddit
When I was in high school in the 80s, both my best friend and one of my cousins were Black. What I learned was that different Black people have different reactions to the systemic racism that they encounter. One was an activist. One has never talked to me about being Black. It’s almost like they’re each individuals. /s
Think_Novel_7215@reddit
Teen during the 90s. I grew up in Cali. We were all friends or not. Didn’t matter what color. Moved to the Midwest 20 years ago. It was not as diverse at the time. It is now. My good friend who is black grew up in Kentucky. She said racism was outright. Definitely depends on the region.
Ebessan@reddit
Uh no, there was rampant racism and homophobia then, and I live in "liberal" New York.
I can't tell you how many people pulled me aside and said, "I don't mind black people, but I hate n-words"
And the f-slur was thrown around constantly. I had a teacher talking about how disgusting gay people were to the whole class.
gvarsity@reddit
There was racism, a lot of sexism, and homophobia back in the 90's our generation was beginning to recognize and reject that at least within a certain social/economic class. I think in generally there was a lot of hope, empathy and belief that we were improving. Post 911 there has been are real split where racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia have become cultural identity cores for a significant portion of the population. In part as an organized well funded active reaction to that 90's cultural bend toward justice.
davypelletier@reddit
bay area native here.
we had friends from all genders, races and backgrounds. and we all teased the heck out of each other. and fought and laughed and loved. we were just humans. nothing was a big deal. none of us trusted the government.
now everyone’s a bootlicker and uptight as hell.
DancinGirlNJ@reddit
Completely agree! When I try and tell younger folks what it was like (not too long ago) they flat out don't believe me. It breaks my heart. We didn't have all of these identity groups. People were individuals and evaluated based on individual merits. Unfortunately everyone getting along isn't good for TPTB who want to rule the world. When we are fighting with each other, being outraged with each other and focused on each other we are not paying attention to them! Divide and conquer! At some point I hope people wake up and realize how they are being played and what they are being played for. Our society depends on this.
Pragmatic-Pimpslappa@reddit
Yusef Hawkins was chased and killed in 1989 and Rodney King was beaten in1991, OJ Simpson 1991. Bernhard Goetz in 84. Central Park jogger case in 89.Crown Heights riot in1991. James Byrd dragged behind a truck severing his arm and head in Texas.These and other polarizing cases shaped thoughts and actions during the 90's where race was concerned.
Gooncookies@reddit
Meh, I think the racists and the bigots have always been around but they’ve recently been emboldened. It used to be shameful to be a hateful person, it’s why the KKK covered their faces, but now we have world leaders making fun of the disabled, stripping rights from women and LGBTQ folks, glorifying and encouraging violence and division…they’re on top of the world now because the people in charge are just like them.
I worked with Gen Z kids when they were in high school and they were the kindest, most tolerant, accepting people I had ever met. I think a majority of younger generations are like that and hopefully when they start moving into positions of power and influence they will find a way to shove the rats back down into the sewer to marinate in their shame like they should have stayed doing.
Wil_White@reddit
This is the overdue and long expected backlash from the institutional bigotry. In 1967 when interracial marriage was legalized it jumped to 3% of total marriages that year. 1980 only 2% of all married couples were interracial. Gay marriage was legalized only in 2015. We need to buckle down and continue progress against conservative extremism. Is there extremism on the left? Yes of course there is. But is it worse to deal with forced inclusivity for a decade or so or continuing separation and bigotry that we have had?
heathers1@reddit
Apparently, many I went through 12 years of school with are now Christian white nationalists. A real disappointment, tbh
Adept-Art-7178@reddit
I think it's important to hear from people of color regarding racism in the 70s and 80s and beyond. They may feel differently than OP.
Stardustquarks@reddit
The world, and especially the US imho, have absolutely regressed. We’ve lost Roe, Obergefell is almost assuredly next. Education is currently being and will be fully destroyed in the next 4 yrs, the US is supporting a 1940s Germany-type genocide in the Middle East, and the country has elected a group of facist, racist, sexist, criminals to run it. We need to storm the castle with pointy sticks. Luigi had it correct - get the enablers
oIVLIANo@reddit
100% on point!
We were raised on the golden rule, and treated people the way they deserved to be treated, based on their behavior.
ms_eleventy@reddit
I was in SF in the 90s. Gay people were people and black people were people, although in very small numbers in SF. I don't think SF is represetative of the world at large, however...
notevenapro@reddit
Sorry. Born and raised in California. Then I was stationed in the south when I was in the Army.
Racism has and is alive and well and out in the open in the south.
stopcallingmeSteve_@reddit
I do, and I think generally the younger generations have gone further. I'll admit it took me awhile to figure out trans, but I was never mean about it. I had questions, got answers and listened to them. I think the bigotry is more vocal today, but it is dying.
DesignSensitive8530@reddit
I was also a teen in the 90s. A mixed-race classmate (we ran in different circles back then) recently told me her white friends were cool until they had an argument, then they would tell her she needed to go back where she belonged. Her black friends would be cool until they had an argument, then they would tell her she wasn't even really black like them and to go cry to her white mom. I'm glad you had positive experiences, and I hope you carry that forward, but it's misguided to generalize experience.
lostgirl16@reddit
yes 🙌🏽 exactly what I was telling my Gen Z kids. I graduated in ‘92. Our We did have cliques but we always intermixed. My group of friends had Mexicans, Asians, African americans, Filipinos and Caucasions.
Aggressive-Pilot6781@reddit
I kind of feel like the race hustlers just can’t let their meal ticket die so they keep it going at all costs. My friend group at a very deep southern university was very diverse. And it wasn’t a big deal. We also enjoyed each others stuff. We all watched Head Banger’s Ball and Yo MTV Raps. Perhaps it’s the stove piping of media that has also contributed to this balkanization of teen culture which ultimately leads to homogeneous friend groups. Who knows?
Buzz729@reddit
The racism was still simmering. I am a Southern, white, Boomer, and I traveled a lot in the 1990s. Whether in New England or the Midwest or wherever, Quiet racists assumed that I had to be one of their people. The racism was there even if it was quiet.
Another commenter here used words that really hit hard. They said that things seemed calmer "because 'we knew our place.'" Wow, but that adds a piece to the puzzle. Thanks to people assuming that I'm one of 'them,' I've heard people freaking out over the thought that "we won't be the majority anymore." It's wasn't until later that I heard about Fox News dressing this up as the great replacement theory.
Bigotry is a poison. Holding any group back holds society back. Our new government has made bigots comfortable with being themselves again, though.
Danglewrangler@reddit
I would say you hit the nail on the head, frame everything in racial terms and opressed/oppressor dynamics, for some strange reason everyone starts to define even neutral concepts in those terms. Who would have thought?
mariachoo_doin@reddit
Outward acts were down big from the 80s. LA riots and oj verdict highlighted the chasm; but we were actually moving on to a better time.
Liberal grandstading (2016) by projecting victimhood onto a black community whose middle and upper class had exploded (to its highest numbers ever) up to that point was the tipping point to where we are now.
Truth-Miserable@reddit
Sorry dude, this is not it. Like, please, come at a question like this with a bit more thought and research
MulberryOk9853@reddit
Nope, this is wrong in my experience. I recall white people complaining about people being “pc” and affirmative action. People are more overtly racist today for sure but I think in the 1990s we had nothing figured out as far as race. We had the LA riots and the OJ Simpson trial. I think all the issues we are seeing now existed but swept under the rug. For POC the world was much less inclusive and now that inclusivity became more common in the mainstream — it’s embolden the closeted racists to be more overt. I grew up in LA and yes white people had it good because POC had to keep their mouths shut about their the insidious racism, micro aggressions, ignorance and no one calling out their white privilege. I remember one time a white dude in college who was in our friend group decided it was cool to call us chinks and spics bc I quote “we are all cool and race is just a construct.” So it’s delusional to think it was better back then. Maybe for white people who were completely comfortable in their unconscious bias and privilege. It was NOT any better for POC.
Regular_Dentist2287@reddit
Racism yes, but homophobia definitely not. How many of your heroes were black? Now, how many were gay?
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Why do Freddie Mercury and Richard Simmons not count?
Regular_Dentist2287@reddit
They do if they were your heroes. I listened to grunge and Richard Simmons was a meme before memes were a thing.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
He was an icon before a meme
TheColdWind@reddit
I agree! My twenties, during the 90’s were the most positive of my life. Blowjob politics, eco-mindedness, and a sense of hope for the world! All was well until An Inconvenient Truth, the final push for the decade, proved a catalyst and tipping point. Just my opinion✌️
RomanHawk1975@reddit
You’re not entirely wrong in how you feel. Maybe it was our naivety or ignorance but it did feel like we were really making progress with racism and bigotry. There was a hopefulness that maybe we had turned a page.
Elliott2030@reddit
I agree that there was a hopefulness because before the internet it WAS unseemly to be openly racist and homophobic. But white people just really never saw the subtle racism and homophobia.
I do think even POC hoped that it was all on the way out, but alas, not so much in reality.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
The racists got creative (rather they thought they were creative) and tagged their behavior as laws, incentives, etc. to do their bigoted bidding. Hello! Gentrification!
bateau_du_gateau@reddit
Gen X solved all those problems. The subsequent generation invented “microaggressions” because they were bored in that perfect world.
Gourmeebar@reddit
GenX solved what problems??? Don’t tell me, you’re white.
bateau_du_gateau@reddit
Actually no, but it wouldn’t make a difference
Gourmeebar@reddit
You’re definitely not a minority if you think “GenX solved those problems.” If you are I’m sure no one else could tell without asking
IcebergSlimFast@reddit
You forgot the /s on this absurd comment.
Elliott2030@reddit
LOL! Ah the ignorance. Yes, microaggressions never existed before Millenials, they just made it up to have something to be mad about.
Lord have mercy you're stupid.
Difficult-Sound7094@reddit
Can't capitalize on it (money) if it isn't a problem.
Glimmerofinsight@reddit
You are correct. I felt like for the most part racism and sexism were on their way out in the 90's. There is always an outlier - people raised in racist families, etc but the world felt a lot friendlier for everyone back then. I'm from the PNW so maybe its not the same down south, or some other places.
Now it seems things have gotten so polarized that you can't have an opinion anymore without some bully shouting you down and trying to make you out as being offensive because you don't share their worldview or political views. (And I'm very middle of the road politically. I just want everyone to have an equal chance to work hard and earn good cash and not be messed with.) So whatever, 2025 - I'm just going to revert to 90's me - which is don't eff with me and I won't eff with you, and we can all enjoy our beer (or white claw, or whatever...).
Its a strange world out there people. Have fun and don't let the man get you down.
chinstrap@reddit
I'd like to hear from Black Americans as to if there wasn't racism or bigotry in the 90's
OriginalsDogs@reddit
Chicago native here... you hit the nail on the head my friend! I don't understand where all the dividing lines came in. When we were kids we were just kids! Not white kids, black kids, Latino kids, etc. Nobody cared about that stuff. You liked who you liked, you loved who you loved, and you minded your own business.
RVAblues@reddit
I’m gonna say that we (liberal straight white cisgender folks) thought it had all been sorted out back in the 90s.
But it’s not just about what’s in our hearts and minds, it’s also about dismantling decades of institutional racist/homophobic policies. At the same time, we need to do the work to make equality the assumed norm, so that bigoted thinkers understand that they are in the minority.
Also, we have a tendency to surround ourselves with people who share our worldview. You say we had it all figured out in the 90s, but remember that Matthew Shepard was killed in 1998. Rodney King happened in 1991.
The 90s was when we began to address it, but between cable news and the divisive feedback loop that is social media, we’re going to need to keep working on it for a long time to come.
Holiday_Passage8288@reddit
The media has created said divsions...!? It's a ploy to make us uncivil.
SarcasmReigns@reddit
I'm from the NW suburbs of Chicago and my reality in the 90's was exactly as you describe.
VancityXen@reddit
I agree, its a ra<ism thing but I don't know if its gotten worse or people are just airing their true natures. Social media has become a cesspool of ra<ism because its an echo chamber of divisive types. I've on average experienced a ra<ial slur or offense of some type every other day all my life so from my pov people just aren't hiding it anymore. A person who isn't a poc, or is white passing would say its a class / economics thing because they can't understand what being ra<ialized is. It's one side of the same block. People are being oppressed for different reasons but are believing the propaganda about "its (insert a group)'s fault". Also, at that point in time there weren't multimillionaires and billionaires everywhere you looked. Basically, same 💩different pile.
Sayheykid2424@reddit
You nailed it. Progress was being made, now look where we are. Back in the early 60’s.
Rockfarley@reddit
Are other people the moral authority in your life? It's odd how people you don't know assume this. I find that those claiming to hate that idea the most, seem to think they are that in other's lives the most. The new bigot, needs your approval, not just your allowance to not interfere with their life. The issue is, the old bigot will take what I just said to mean they are fine to be a bigot as they once were, which that isn't ok either.
Still, I am over-all happy. Life is good, and I really don't think about your group until you scream in my face about it. Just remember, that is my experience with your group... you screamed in my face. So, about the same I guess.
ZealousidealKnee171@reddit
Didn’t notice race until politicians started pointing it out
Blossom73@reddit
Are you white? If yes, you had the luxury of not noticing race. People of color don't and have never had that luxury in the United States.
ZealousidealKnee171@reddit
Guessing you’re young
Blossom73@reddit
Weird. I'm Gen X, just like you.
GenXrules69@reddit
OP I have felt the same. There was a period where people were people. We recognized differences but also saw our similarities and com.on interests. I saw this in the mid late 80s....and I am from Mississippi.
Did we have our "cliques" yep did we float between them yep. There were still barriers that were there from society, but the animosity and balkanizatiin was not where it is now.
One thought I have is "THEY" realized the masses were beginning to get along and would create an issue for the power structure. Division and distrust had to be sown to divide and keep "us" in check.
sweetcomputerdragon@reddit
If you're not from California you won't understand how great we are.
LydiaBrunch@reddit
Eh, I just think we were more in our bubbles then. Like, I remember finding out that some kid I knew got arrested for jumping up and down on a car screaming the N word. I was shocked. But now I feel like I would have seen some sketchy posts on social media from this guy and been less shocked, had social media existed then.
bluefishtigercat@reddit
I'm an Xer living in Indiana, one of the reddest states. I too naively assumed that when the Silent Gen died off most bigotry would go away... Then I was waiting for the bigot Boomers to die, and now I see people younger than us embracing all kinds of discrimination and sexism. It's so disheartening.
Fun-Opportunity-551@reddit
You come from a place of privilege. My 90s life was experiencing no-longer friends offer to go beat up Indians.
schwing710@reddit
I agree with you regarding overt racism like hate crimes, but I think a more casual form racism was probably more common than you’d think. I’m a white guy who grew up in an ultra-Caucasian state of Vermont so I never experienced any, but I’d imagine some minorities certainly would have. Especially from cops.
earthgarden@reddit
GenX is so weird and revisionist when it comes to remembering racism in our youth. We’re almost as bad as the Boomers; to hear them tell it they were all marching for Civil rights and school integration and wanting integrated neighborhoods lol.
I think a lot of white GenXers remember us having race stuff ‘figured out’ but I sure don’t. All this nonsense of ‘it was about class or music or whatever’ that’s just not true! I’m black and that is just simply not true. It was better in the sense that there was very little of the ‘soft’ bigotry and ‘benevolent’ racism you see nowadays, particularly from white liberals, at least back in the day racist white people were straight-up about it.
Striking_Snail@reddit
I feel like the threat of a solid smack in the mouth made people think a little harder about what they were about to say, so thoughts and opinions were often kept to ourselves.
Ultimately, the race, colour, orientation and beliefs of an individual didn't matter. A dick/bully/arsehole were just that. And they were often indiscriminate with their unwanted attention.
PeterGibbons316@reddit
I'm white and grew up with racist parents and black friends. We didn't have it figured out, but it was obvious to me even as a small child that the skin color of my friends didn't really make them any different from me and so I was able to dismiss the ignorance of my parents. MLK's famous dream of judging people by the content of their character rather than the color of their skin was always something that really resonated with me, and something I've aspired to since the day I first heard his words.
Now though I truly feel we have regressed. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We sought to fight racism and bigotry by calling attention to it. Affirmative action, CRT, DEI.....all well intentioned but have worsened race relations. Rather than moving toward racial blindness our culture has embraced immutable characteristics as defining aspects of ones identity which has united those with shared identities, but divided us as a whole.
I just want to go back to that very brief moment in time where we all agreed it was wrong to treat people differently (either negative OR positively) based on the color of their skin.
willisfitnurbut@reddit
April 26th, 1992 There was a riot on the streets Tell me, where were you? You were sittin' home watchin' your TV While I was participating in some anarchy
Malfunction1972@reddit
Black,white, Mexican,Asian,gay, straight,bi. You're right, at the end of the day we didn't care in the 90's. You was either an asshole or you wasn't.
Peace_Love_Karma@reddit
No offense but racism has not budged. The Internet only let racist be racist without people seeing their face. I'm sure white folks are tired of hearing black folks talk about racism, but unlike what you hear or see in a movie, we live it every day. Look at DEI hires or even "woke." White folks turned those into such negative words and use them in such a derogatory way. Racism may have seemed like it progressed in the 90's to you but have you sat down with black folks and had this conversation? Your observation is through white lenses not POC lenses. Just like the Klan, racism is here to stay.
elwood0341@reddit
You’re absolutely right, no one really cared.
Goobersrocketcontest@reddit
It seems that "let's just put it all out there and talk about it" really didn't do anything positive, did it?
tranquilrage73@reddit
The example we have seen from from certain leaders in the last decade -- which include school yard type bullying, racism, xenophobia, etc., led a lot of closet haters to come out of the woodwork. Under the misconception that it is a great idea to "say it the way it is," or "say what everyone else is thinking."
These people did not simply vanish and reappear, but what was in their hearts became abundantly clear.
In my opinion, it made it easier to identify and detach from toxicity.
Over-Marionberry-686@reddit
Ex teacher here. Watch the pendulum swing in my 34 years of teaching. Unfortunately it’s in a bad place right now (my opinion). It’s going to take a new civil rights type movement.
RunRunRabbitRunovich@reddit
In my town poverty is and was the great equalizer. Didn’t matter color, ethnicity, religion, gay or straight. We all hung out and scraped together for weed or gas money or food and alcohol 😂
username6511@reddit
We may have been a bit naïve, but yes, I remember that feeling too. We were given all kinds of tools growing up to really push forward and equal and just society but we stopped giving a shit and bought fancy cars instead. Our generation is actually a bunch of assholes, pretending to be tough.
WackyWriter1976@reddit
Oh, many cared...enough to ignore it and let it prosper! Let's not act like there weren't racist, sexist, homophobic friends around. We were bullied then as we are now.
Enough Gen Xers ignored the lessons and discussions and decided to follow in their parents' and grandparents' footsteps. If this is surprising, you weren't paying attention.
matrimcathon@reddit
It has gone in waves throughout history across many nations, I think it is easier to see the pockets of trouble. This is not universal.
Real_Satisfaction704@reddit
My personal opinion is that things was the absolute same back then as now the difference now is that we have social media back then we didn’t
church-basement-lady@reddit
We absolutely did not have it figured out. It was just a lot easier for white and straight people to not see it.
tonylouis1337@reddit
94 born here, from the Northeast, just happened to see this on my feed and wanted to weigh in because; yes, I've been saying for a while that we're living in the most racist time period I've ever witnessed. CRT and internet grifters are what I would point to as immediate suspects.
BIGepidural@reddit
No, I don't feel like we had it "figured out" because interracial tensions were still very much a thing back in the day, and as someone who was in an interracial relationship with a multiracial friend group I was privy to and experienced A LOT of it!
Interracial dating- very frowned upon back in the day. People on both/all sides telling us we shouldn't be together and definitely should not have children because "what would they be"?
White supremacy- very much a thing, sometimes covertly and other times right in the open.
Racial profiling- huge thing back in the day (much like today), and watching friends being questioned by school staff and/or police- what a fkn difference! White, middle class and "above" get treated very differently then non white people. Even white lower classes with problematic histories aren't treated with the same level of abrasiveness and contempt as a non white person. Racial profiling in stores as well changes drastically when you're walking around with a few of your Asian friends. People were (are) treated differently based on race all the time and it is absolutely systemic. I cannot count the number of times i would stand with a friend or step in during police involvement and saw how things changed due to my presence and vouching for them. Its disgusting!
Job opportunities- unless a store was run by a particular ethic group who hired people of the same group, most job opportunities for POC would be back end or manual labor positions where they wouldn't be seen or the main point of interactions with the general public. A number of my friends used to make money "worm picking" in the middle of the night or doing similar late night under the table jobs for cash because they couldn't get "real jobs" due to their race, or language barriers when it came to their parents as 1st generation immigrants.
Yeah, our friend group had it figured out and we all hung out regardless of race and went to everyone's weddings and family events because we were friends and grew up together; but larger society still had its hangups and held people of color down in a myriad of ways so pretending like that wasn't a thing is just wild to me...
Maybe you had "black friends" but perhaps you were never let in to their lives deep enough to hear or see the hardships and obstacles that being POC actually entailed...
As to LGBTQ+ persons, most of our peers stayed closeted for their own safety because gay bashing was very much a thing back in the day. The hate and fear of the gay community due to AIDS was a whole other level of fear and phobia that kept people in the closet, and moving beyond that took a lot of years for society; but the violence against gays was extreme- the self loathing of some that manifested into murder of others was also incredibly common because "the gays" were viewed by wider society as diseased degenerates. Thats to say nothing of trans persons who would loose their lives if the wrong man picked them up and found a surprise under their skirts. Again, I don't feel like your proximity to a handful of people from the larger group provides you much insight into the fears and dangers others within this group were exposed to or had to endure...
Yeah, rave culture helped break down some of the racial and sexual barriers a bit; but not nearly as much as we as society had made progress in the 15- 20 years that followed.
All of the people you mentioned created communities of peers in pockets of areas in order to keep themselves safe from prejudice outsiders. To pretend like that didn't happen or that it wasn't absolutely necessary is just insane!
Having work friends/peers from different groups don't give you the inside perspective that actually living alongside those people does. Even still, those of us who were in the close relationships can't fully understand what its like for the target of abuse and prejudice to he us, 24/7 without ever being able to step away or calm the storm with our whiteness, straightness or cisgenerness.
We did make progress. We did make moves that lead to further changes; but it wasn't "not there" you were just in a position where you could live under the guise of it not being there when it absolutely was.
My 2c for whatever its worth
scramblelated@reddit
Racism wasn’t a thing in my school. All we had was white kids. THAT was because my city was born in the 50s and 60s out of something they called “White Flight” where the white people in St. Louis moved out of the city in droves. So our grandparents and parents were bigots, but we kids didn’t know any different.
BigAustralianBoat2@reddit
You had racism and bigotry figured out in the 90’s? Bro, April 26 1992. There was a riot on the streets. Tell me, where were you?
LibertyMike@reddit
Part of the problem is Critical Race Theory started gaining widespread adoption in colleges & universities in the early 2010's. It's basically Marxism, but replaces class with race. Prior to that, I think race relations were improving on a slow & steady basis. Not that there weren't still problems, but things seem to have gotten worse since then.
Im_tracer_bullet@reddit
'Critical Race Theory started gaining widespread adoption in colleges & universities'
No, it's was a previously obscure academic concept with very limited exposure, and had no material impact at all.
Unfortunately, the right-wing infotainment machine chose to make it a new boogeyman, and suddenly misinformation about it was everywhere and exciting too many people with pre-existing persecution complexes.
LibertyMike@reddit
It's been around since the 70's and is fairly widespread these days. It's the impetus for DEI.
BeautifulAd8857@reddit
Well said!
doa70@reddit
Agreed, I thought the same. However, as the world gets smaller it's easier to see not everyone agrees or had the same experience.
Some of the stuff I've seen over the past 30 years since that time is truly cruel and terrible, and most of what I'm referring to happens online.
lady_tsunami@reddit
No… white ppl ignored the issues, and hoped for the best.
More_Mind6869@reddit
Yes. I've watched it for 50 years.
The last 20 years we've seen the effects of intensive Social Engineering and Mass Mind Manipulation programs.
Covid crisis is the perfect example.
That's why this division and anger and hatred and blame between all subgroups has been promoted.
Keep the Peasants fighting each other for scraps, while the Ruler$ suck the Fat$...
Ya ain't seen nothing yet !
The next 5 years with Lord Ai commanding your every movement, street light, ATM $ocial Credit $ystem, News Feed, everything you see, read, watch, and think.
It will feel "Normal " then...
But it would blow your mind today if ya stopped long enough to Think About It....
oo7_and_a_quarter@reddit
I think it was easier to live in an information bubble back then. The internet has exposed just how many truly awful people are out there; and they seem to be emboldened by knowing that there are so many more like them. Then we put one of them into the presidency, which they took as confirmation and validation for their sh!tty beliefs and behaviors. I think they were always there lurking.
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
I agree with OP. For those wondering what happened.... A guy named Barak Obama became president and introduced identity politics to the younger generation.
LilLebowskiAchiever@reddit
Not how I remember the 1990s or the Aughts. I recall riots in LA after the Rodney King verdict in 1992. And segregates proms across the American South. KKK grand wizard David Duke legitimately running for, and winning public office. President GHW Bush’s Willy Horton political commercials.
Obama didn’t create identity politics, white politicians loved to create fear of black and brown people throughout the 1990s though.
Neat-Smile-3418@reddit
I didn't say he created them. I said he introduced them to the younger generation. However, I cannot in good faith argue with one of Lebowski's Little Urban Achievers. And a good day to you sir!!
eejizzings@reddit
You didn't even think about it. But I think you're ignoring a ton of popular media from the 90s about contemporary racism.
OJsLeftGlove@reddit
Democrats realized they could milk division for votes instead of coming up with decent ideas during Obama’s second term.
That’s why…
euMonke@reddit
Well, it's easier to ignore that there are racists in the world, when they're not running governments. And I am grateful for having experienced that.
Madame_Kitsune98@reddit
Yeah, no. Not doing this today. Being female in the 90s was not a walk in the park. We did not have it “figured out,” and we were not civil to each other. And people cared very much if you weren’t part of their narrow world view.
It’s almost like the same people who griped then about “PC culture” are griping about “woke culture,” because it’s a nice way of saying, “whaddaya mean, I can’t say shitty, sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic shit anymore? What do I care that someone gets offended?”
Yeah. Oh no. You have to get along with other people for the rest of society not to consider you trash.
dangelo7654398@reddit
I guess the difference is that back then things weren't necessarily better, and were worse in some ways (ask about the unhinged homophobia in the wake of the AIDS epidemic), but that there was a large plurality of people who were determined to be better and make society better. Social conservatives and chuds were caught on the back foot. Now, we have a large plurality of people who exist for the sole purpose of cruelty and making people different from themselves suffer, and the other side is caught on the back foot.
Oliver_Klosov@reddit
In my neck of the woods (So Cal) growing up we all got along with different races, even though there was still lots of systematic racism in place. However, when acts like public enemy and NWA addressed this in their songs, I don't recall any backlash from whites like you see today anytime a minority with a public platform addresses racism. There were no "try that in a small town" type of songs going mainstream. It was damn near embarrassing to be called racist.
After the OJ trial, you started seeing a bit of racism resurfacing from older whites. Then when Obama was elected, everything changed. I suppose the Internet was on full force by then and it let people be racist, anonymously. Moved to a more conservative part of the state at that time, for work, and the older white guys weren't even trying to hide it anymore. It's was sad.
Being gay was a whole different story. We used it as a pejorative amongst friends and I never recall anyone from my school coming out. It was still extremely taboo then.
bleue_shirt_guy@reddit
I think a lot of it, due to social media, people have to constantly show how good they are. Back in the 80s and 90s we didn't have that.
notsaww@reddit
It’s because we didn’t have social media and echo chambers like this app. If you wanted to act the way a lot of people do online, you had to do it in public and you were forced to take accountability. It’s easy to be hateful and malicious when you’re sitting behind an app under and assumed identity.
Leeleewithwings@reddit
My parents and grandparents were quite racist’. They would never publicly say what they thought out loud, but would say how they felt in the privacy of their own home. I think the past and incoming president and administration has given people like them permission to be publicly racist and brand it as patriotic. I have always thought it was disgusting and was one of the reasons I left my small Appalachian town for a bigger city in another state because I wanted to raise my kids with diversity and inclusion. They had black and Hispanic friends that were just friends, not my black friend etc, just my friend.
I hate how backwards everything has become. I help raise my grandkids now and that’s very important to me to make sure they grow up understanding we are all equal, no matter the color, religion, preferences etc. Differences is a good thing and there is a lot to be learned from those from other cultures and upbringings. Don’t erase who they are and where they’re from, respect them, learn from them and know we are all the same underneath, just trying to get by the best they can like the rest of us
florida_gun_nut@reddit
I was a metal head but also a nerd. Weird combination but it worked. Gay kids didn’t readily come out then so I never really had any contact with them until I was much older.
Mfsmitty@reddit
Whatever, we just didn't have a venue to vent and share the experiences. If you were lucky you had friends and family you felt comfortable enough to share with. In 1992 I was driving in the car with my black friend when we were pulled over. Got to experience first hand the hate that he and others did and still do. 16 years old with guns pointed at our heads because of bored cops claiming we matched a description. .i told my mom and she was like, "that's too bad."
Lone_Eagle4@reddit
I want to mention the disgusting racism I dealt with up to graduating high school in 2013. No way it was better 😂
Altruistic_Peach_791@reddit
For some reason, “the powers that be” want us divided and at odds.
JustMe1235711@reddit
I think the hidden variable is that some people will find a reason to hate everyone. For those people, race is low-hanging fruit. If they were of the same race, they'd find some other reason to hate them.
Other people, just don't hate anyone. They may have stereotypes that they apply because that's what humans do, but they wish you well in their ignorance.
genek1953@reddit
In the 90s the country had a growing economy and the portion of the population looking for someone to blame for their poor circumstances was smaller. Income inequality has hit uneducated, low incone people hard, and their desire for scapegoats has greatly expanded, along with the parade of people working to fire them up and aim them at their preferred targets.
However, to the people being targeted, things didn't suddenly go to hell. They've always known the haters had never gone away and were just waiting for someone to make it acceptable for them to come out into the open again.
Simple-Purpose-899@reddit
Anyone thinking things are worse now than they were then really is out of touch. I made sure my kids weren't brought up with the same ideals I was brought up with, and all of my friends did the same.
gmeluski@reddit
We didn't. People used the term "gay" as an insult and made racist jokes all the time.
Ohio_gal@reddit
Ah man, must be nice not to have to ever have been subject to racism or homophobia in the 80s and 90s said no black person or gay person who was alive during that time frame.
At best this is being overly optimistic. At worse, intentionally obtuse.
Flyingarrow68@reddit
I was working in the south during the first democratic woman running and the consensus there was a ‘blacklash’ was gonna happen because the racists couldn’t take having Obama as president and then the thoughts of a woman being president made it worse. WOW, was I ever shocked they were right. I thought like you posted that we were past most of that garbage but now as we are heading toward another four years of hatred it’s very disappointing and feels like the wrong direction. I’m all for less measuring and labeling. What will it take to get our country to strengthen the nation and return to education and advancement that benefits us as a whole? Everyone bleeds the same color and skin shouldn’t matter especially since white people immigrated here.
swefnes_woma@reddit
We thought we did, but we didn't. Before he died, Steve Albini wrote up a good set of tweets talking about his past and how he looks back on stuff like forming a band called "Rapeman" and other so-called edgy things he and his friends did. You can read it here https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1448050175658713092.html but the important piece is this:
Of course nowadays it's well understood that ironic racism is still racism, and just because you don't feel a problem is relevant anymore because it doesn't affect you doesn't actually mean it's no longer a problem.
CondeBK@reddit
I am going to guess this is about where you grew up. I spent most of the 90s in Louisiana in College and I can say people were pretty racist. Maybe they were more "polite racist" than they are today, but racist nonetheless.
There was a story in my campus paper about a couple who said they were not able to openly be together on campus because they were of different races. At the time I thought that was over the top, because they didn't even give their real names or showed their faces.
Now to be fair, our school mascott was a goddamn Gray uniformed confederate soldier. I am not even making this up.
sugarcoatedpos@reddit
Keep the people divided.
Iwaspromisedcookies@reddit
People in cities in California in the 90s did indeed get buffered from a lot of that hate. I loved to the south as a teen and what culture shock, I had no idea people were still that racist
Radiant_Quality_9386@reddit
if you think structural racism isn't a massive contemporary issue, you're either terrible at math or racist as hell.
also like Rodney King, War on drugs, etc
REDDITSHITLORD@reddit
Gay jokes were the bread and butter of EVERY morning radio show.
Thirty_Helens_Agree@reddit
Oh man - I remember two dumbasses on my local morning radio just going to town on the gay jokes when Gianni Versace died.
Snoo_90208@reddit
You are 100 percent on the money. Race relations and human relations in general were way better in the 80s and 90s than they are now. The internet and social media have facilitated the growth and influence of groups that profit from promoting divisiveness.
EmDeeAech70@reddit
Grew up in the Midwest here. “Gay” and “fg” were used as derogatory terms for pretty much anyone or anything you didn’t like. Several times I’d hear people how there’s a difference between “nggers and black people” and that “white people can be n*ggers too” so equal opportunity racism? I guess? A friend of mine was mixed race (native and white) and our shop teacher loved to make jokes about his “wet back” and always asked if his area was “spic” and span at the end of class. There was a girl a few grades ahead of me who participated in a gang bang. Didn’t seem to bother anyone that she didn’t participate willingly (or soberly). I don’t remember anyone calling the guys involved “rapists” but, man, they sure called that girl a “slut”. Did we have it “figured out”? Not even a little bit. We just weren’t used to being called out on our BS 🤷♂️
Oriencor@reddit
I’m a California native as well, but in 1982 my family moved to South Carolina and the outright racism was crazy.
My cousin (who came out to live with us his senior year) got the crap beat out of him because he asked a black girl out, his locker emptied into a toilet and my father’s car keys flushed.
I was twelve when we moved and I had never experienced racism myself until we moved there.
You see, my mom’s Italian. She was thisclose to being black according to some of my classmates and their parents.
Yes, I experienced a lesser amount of racist bullshit because I am white, but I also got called an eggplant, dago, papist, heretic and was told in my civics class by a guy that since my mother was Northern Italian (which translated to I was mostly white to them because whatever) his KKK leading Daddy gave him permission to date me.
So, while we feel there was less racism given living in California and it was the 70/80/90’s, it was there. Even though I thought I wasn’t racist, later on in life I realized there was a lot of crap I absorbed while living in the Deep South.
jakeoverbryce@reddit
Obama ran on and stoked the fires of Race.
Nobody cared in the 70s 80s and 90s. We all got along. We all played together.
People were just people.
Abzstrak@reddit
Yup, I blame the Christians. They've let the hateful Christian nationalists take over and speak for them, so I'll lump them all together now.
Fresh-Preference-805@reddit
There‘s a big push to use social media to amplify underlying divisive attitudes that have always been there, but I also think (as a NY native) that some of these rural places have much more hate and bigotry than those of us from more diverse parts of the country would ever have guessed.
Realsober@reddit
Here we have another make America great fantasy timeline 🙄
PSN_ONER@reddit
No, we didn't.
tc_cad@reddit
Yeah I had friends that had all sorts of skin colors. To me they were just friends. It didn’t bother me that all my friends spoke another language before they learnt English. I would get invited to their houses for dinner. Half of the food I ate I didn’t know the name of. But it was always delicious. My step-grandpa was Jamaican as well so there was always someone of color at family gatherings as well. My kids now have friends with skin of all the colors. I think it’s great. Racism has no place in modern life. Neither does discrimination against sexuality.
ThannisWolf@reddit
I felt a lot of hope in the 90's...and have since watched everything systematically walked backwards over the past 2 decades... I'm depressed as hell anymore.
doop-doop-doop@reddit
Wow. Yeah, no. Casual racism and homophobia were rampant in the 90s. The only way you could think otherwise is if you never cared enough to notice. People demanding equality is not divisive.
RCA2CE@reddit
I think people are demanding preference, not equality. That’s what the Supreme Court overturned with that Harvard admissions case
doop-doop-doop@reddit
I don't discuss things with people who argue in bad faith.
RCA2CE@reddit
What was bad faith? I cited a Supreme Court outcome
The “E” in DEI is for equity, not equality- it means that you give all the resources needed to arrive at the outcome you want.. not that you treat everyone equal. If you think putting a thumb on the scale to help someone doesn’t disadvantage someone else than you’re arguing in bad faith. What I said is a fact, admissions were given preference, hiring targets made a preference.
People were not treated equally.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
That is NOT what equity means. Please educate yourself before discussing this topic.
RCA2CE@reddit
I think you should - go research the hiring practices behind the DEI programs that are being cancelled across the nation. Giving preference to perceived disadvantaged people in hiring and promotion to arrive at their targeted outcome, that’s not equality.
RCA2CE@reddit
https://www.naceweb.org/about-us/equity-definition
WHAT IS EQUITY? The term “equity” refers to fairness and justice and is distinguished from equality: Whereas equality means providing the same to all, equity means recognizing that we do not all start from the same place and must acknowledge and make adjustments to imbalances. The process is ongoing, requiring us to identify and overcome intentional and unintentional barriers arising from bias or systemic structures.
Like I said - it isn’t equality, it’s giving more to a cohort to arrive at your outcome
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
You are right that equity isn't equality. Where you're wrong is in your description of how you believe DEI addresses it.
RCA2CE@reddit
I’m not though - you need to understand this if you want to be a champion of inclusion
There is nobody upset with diversity, inclusion- it’s equity. It’s creating measures, targets, goals to hire and promote a cohort. That’s the practice under scrutiny. It was wrong, everyone is understanding it was wrong - but you don’t get it.
The goal is for diverse people to achieve belonging. Not to essentially pay reparations via hiring and promotion policies that favor a race or gender
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Maybe everyone you know thinks that way. Everyone I know does not.
RCA2CE@reddit
The Supreme Court, many states, most universities and most of the s&p 500 have decided they agree with me.
unclesmokedog@reddit
the ultra right supreme court dictated their beliefs to universities. Universities had to follow the law. Don't pretend they agree with you by choice.
RCA2CE@reddit
You mean the Supreme Court said the liberal university had to follow the law?
I think you are right that some universities wanted to keep their programs but for many others you have no evidence that says they wanted to keep those policies. Many states banned it - the schools followed those rules, some willingly some maybe not. So it isn’t accurate for you to say that universities oppose shutting down DEI programs or admissions based on race/gender. You don’t know it altogether.
That said - you must acknowledge that 2024 saw the collapse of these wrong minded DEI programs.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
I am very well educated on the topic of DEI and work within that world on a daily basis. You truly do not know what you're talking about.
RCA2CE@reddit
META ends DEI https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2025/01/10/read-the-memo-meta-announces-end-of-its-dei-programs.html
The FBI ends DEI https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2025/01/17/fbi-shutters-dei-office-here-are-the-organizations-ending-diversity-programs-full-list/
Mcdonalds ends DEI https://apnews.com/article/mcdonalds-diversity-dei-goals-845d94cd46511341a43e98e057b0fa8e
Ford, Toyota, Coors, John Deere - all ended it. Many states banned it. Universities have shut it down.
Everyone is wrong, including the Supreme Court - except for you, you’re the expert
RCA2CE@reddit
I posted for you on another comment - let me go share some examples of successful DEI, hang tight
Burglekutt_3000@reddit
Gen X Cali guy boo hooo
myloveisajoke@reddit
For a brief moment GenX could all take jabs at eachother using whatever slurs applied, have no ill intention, and laugh about it.
The boomers were civil rights era and when people said the magic worlds they generally meant them, post 2000s people started meaning them again as a divide was once again sowed. For or that 80s to late 90s era everyone talked mad shit about eachoter, kicked eachother in the nuts and pounded a Zima chased by aftershock.
Edward_the_Dog@reddit
I must respectfully disagree with OP. We did not have racism and bigotry figured out back in the day. A little about me… white male, grew up in the northeast in a bedroom suburb of Boston. I came out west after college and have taught in large urban school districts since the early 90s.
I was completely oblivious to the racism around me growing up because I was young, not because we had anything figured out. It’s like how perception of speed is relative. If everyone’s moving at the same speed, we all look like we’re not moving. If everyone’s around you is racist, then it doesn’t seem like anyone is. We’d tell race-based jokes. Gay and f*g were insults. The only thing I knew about people of color was what I saw on TV.
My thinking has evolved a lot over the years. It helped living and working in a diverse environment. It also helps that there is diversity in the media these days. Every time I see a show or commercial featuring successful, middle-class people of color, I think to myself “that’s not something we ever saw in TV back in the day.” Can you imagine growing up and the only role models available to you on TV and in movies were gangsters, felons, perps on Cops, etc.?
Fluid-Awareness-7501@reddit
I think you need to ask your "black friends" if they felt there was less racism.
Old_Introduction7236@reddit
Didn't care then, still don't now. Everyone has their own personal biases about one thing or another. Back then, we could agree to disagree. Now, everything is a moral crusade requiring the correct virtue signaling to navigate.
I've got better things to worry about.
Ksan_of_Tongass@reddit
The masters decided we were getting too close for their comfort, so they stoked the fires. Anytime a talking head(not The Talking Heads) tells you that your neighbor is the problem, it means the guys at the top are scared.
Enterprise-wide@reddit
Grew up in Brooklyn. It was very segregated (still is). Black kids couldn’t go to certain neighborhoods. White kids didn’t go to black neighborhoods. I went to a mixed high school. No racist incidents that I know of. We were friendly, but tended to be friends with those like us. There were several racist incidents in NY (mostly Brooklyn and Queens) in the 80s and 90s. Wasn’t surprised that many of the J6 rioters are GenX.
lovekillseveryone@reddit
I think it's all regional
FollowTheFellow@reddit
My sophomore year (1988) the Gay and Lesbian Alliance was founded at my college. Its charter was immediately challenged, and IIRC the school was sued in state court by the Campus Crusade for Christ because the group “advocated for the violation of state sodomy laws.” This was a large state school in the south.
It wasn’t just the south either, though it was a little less public elsewhere. The next year I transferred to a school in Boston where clubs would hang drop posters (banners) in the main entrance. That year the LGBT group hung a poster celebrating National Coming Out Day. The next day an unauthorized poster appeared that said “OK, now back in the closet.” The following year, the LGBT group’s drop poster was set on fire.
When I hear the slogan “we won’t go back”, this is the sort of thing I think about.
WWBobRossD@reddit
Agreed on all counts. I think once the 24 hour news cycle came along and realized that shock value and generating worry equated to viewership and dollar signs which was followed by social media a handful of years later with the same knowledge of fostering increasing shock value, society has been fueled by doom and instant gratification. The powers that be have a certain control over us by nudging us to be on "sides" with a lot of labels that these two mediums have created for us. I'm tired of the fighting. No one person is just one thing.
snarkdiva@reddit
I grew up in Indiana, which was and is openly racist for the most part (and I lived in Indianapolis, not a rural small town). I moved to CA in 1985, and it was like night and day. I moved back to Indy in 2013 to help my aging parents who have now passed away, and it was still racist as hell. I moved to Chicago after they died. Some parts of the US still want it to be the 1950s.
tropicsGold@reddit
100% true. Just being friends with people from any group was the standard.
You can really see it in GenX TV shows, like Psych and Malcom in the Middle, where there are black kids who are just ordinary kids, not the designated “black kid” character. Gus is just the kid who grew up with Shawn, who is just as nerdy and awkward as Shawn.
This wasn’t an accident. The baby boomers were vehemently anti racism and anti-sexism, discrimination of any kind. they spent most of their youth marching and taking over buildings (today they would be called insurrections 😂) to protest any injustice.
It is horrifying to me how warped young people are today on the subject. They split themselves into groups, and they are just over the top with the phony friendly virtue signaling. They all want a “gay friend” which is just gross. Like they would not normally even be friends, but they will pretend so they can check that box.
I seriously feel bad for modern minorities and homosexuals, they would have a hard time even distinguishing which friends are real. It is such a show.
And nobody can be open honest and sincere because they are all terrified of being called racist and cancelled. It is sad. Hopefully this mass hysteria is finally ebbing and we can just get back to being Americans again.
PresentationCrazy620@reddit
I'm pretty sure you are placing a white lens on this and that your friends who were black, gay, other DEFINITELY knew distinctions.
Just ask Matthew Shephard and Amadou Diablo, to name two folks.
meanteeth71@reddit
I keep hearing this … “we had it figured out” from white people.
I went to the predominantly white flagship public university in California from 1988-1993. While I was there the regents decided to end affirmative action— not because they’d achieved the level of diversity they set out for— but because they were successfully convinced that it was “commonizing” the school and particularly the flagship.
I went to college with white people who confidently told me with a smile that I had skated in, gotten in because I am Black, and that I had “taken” their spot. I was out of state admit with 1450 SATs and a 3.8 GPA, a senior year with college courses and a ton of AP. I tested into French 3 and out of freshman English. I broke the curve on my OChem class. But sure… I skated in.
The people who think we had it figured out didn’t live through the racism and bigotry that I did. And it’s really crazy to think that with the total level of denial about racism that exists in this country ANYONE would think we ever had race figured out in America.
FiveCentCandy@reddit
Most of us didn't understand systemic racism or how it was affecting our lives in the 90's. No one acknowledged white supremacy in forms other than Nazis or the KKK. It was the same for me with feminism. Same with classism. LGBTQ issues. Until I learned about these issues and opened my eyes to the reality of what was happening, I "didn't care". We were living in ignorant times back in the day. We were making progress compared to our parents, but had so much to learn still. Our kids will say the same about us, particularly with LGBTQ issues.
Btw, I'm in Canada, and a controversial right wing personality just said the same thing you did." Racism was never a problem back in our day, until the "woke left" made it an issue." It reeks of ignorance and privilege.
Interesting_Whole_44@reddit
Psy Ops is not just a thing our country does, and in this day and age of the internet and social media it’s all made the more easier to do. Throw in centralized media monopolies and the death of the free press and you get what we have today. IMHO
SherLovesCats@reddit
I live and grew up in East County San Diego. Every year, skinheads flyers ended up in our lockers at our high school. I’m half Mexican, and I pass for white. I had a few pointed jokes made about my dad (his family have been citizens since 1849). But, San Diego is a melting pot and most places people get along.
Since 2012ish, there has been a visible rise in white power type of groups. When I worked at UCSD, one department had a hate group graffiti outside a department director’s door, we had to keep our doors locked due to threats because we introduced the concept of CRT.
LancerGreen@reddit
As a queer person in the 90s who was bullied into oblivion, like many others:
No, we most certainly did not have it figured out.
Gay marriage was illegal, it was legal to fire someone or evict them for being gay, if a student called you the f-slur or just used gay as a put down, 90% of teachers either did nothing or generically said 'quiet down'. Gay kids were prevented from bringing their partners to prom.
On what planet did you live on, my guy?
OccamsYoyo@reddit
I’ve often thought that as well, but I’m a middle-aged white guy. I have no idea what it’s like to be a visible minority. It’s entirely possible your black friends even in the ‘90s were being pulled over by cops for being black or institutionally discriminated against in all kinds of ways. There was probably just as much racism back then but far fewer people dared to come right out and say it.
Broken-fingernails@reddit
Was from NorCal, was jumped by 3 guys because I was assured to be gay. Cali was not perfect in the 90s. As was mentioned, class was important, but there was still a big us and them. Being a weirdo was not safe.
myrdraal2001@reddit
Wow. Typed like a person of privilege that is now complaining about the minorities that have had enough and now want to be treated better, as equals. As a gay person that also happens to be a child of immigrants you're definitely not remembering the Stonewall Inn Riots or the horrors of HIV/AIDS. That's not even mentioning all of the constant racism against anyone that wasn't native born white. I'm happy for you having grown up in such an idyllic life.
Antique_Soil9507@reddit
Yes.
Because of social media.
mdervin@reddit
Are you forgetting the Rodney King riots? The cop riots in NYC? Or even political correctness battles on college campuses back in the 1990’s? Etc…
Milo_Minderbinding@reddit
No, unfortunately it was always prevalent. Racist jokes and stereotypes were common.
Blossom73@reddit
Yep, as were gay jokes.
Milo_Minderbinding@reddit
Who can forget the Long Duck Dong character in Sixteen Candles or any other similar movies?
Zeno_The_Alien@reddit
The power of rose-colored glasses is strong.
1992 - L. A. riots kicked off due to racist policing
1993 - Don't ask, don't tell barred openly gay people from joining the military
1993 - The transphobic murder of Brandon Teena
1995 - The homophobic murder of Scott Amedure
1998 - The racist lynching of James Byrd Jr.
1998 - The homophobic lynching of Matthew Shepard
1999 - The antisemitic murder of Joseph Ileto
These are just some of the high profile instances of racism and bigotry I can remember off the top of my head.
The biggest difference between then and now is that racism and bigotry were easier to ignore back then, because we didn't have the internet (specifically social media) to call it out publicly in the way that we have now. In the 90s, if it wasn't happening to you or it wasn't on the news, you could convince yourself that it simply wasn't happening. We can't do that anymore.
Another thing that was different was that we still had hope. We could imagine a better world, and we felt like we were working towards it. These days, the dirty underbelly of American society is fully exposed, and we are coming to grips with the fact that no matter how hard we work towards a better world, the vast majority of us will die worse off than when we were born. The powers that be know this, and they push racism and bigotry in order to distract us from that fact, to divide us, so that we don't take the fight to them.
So yes, I agree we are regressing, but no, I don't think we "had racism and bigotry figured out in the 90s".
1singhnee@reddit
It was there, we just didn’t see the extremes as much because there was no internet. When I joined the army in 1991 the animosity based on race and ethnicity blew my little west coast mind.
There was a lot of what I’d call “casual racism”, where the intent isn’t to hurt anyone, but the word/action hurts anyway.
Unsteady_Tempo@reddit
It felt better because things seemed to be getting better (slowly), but everybody still "had their place." (I'm not saying that was a good thing or something to go back to.) It wasn't racism that we had figured out. It was everybody's places. There were paths to success. Those paths were different or harder for different people, but they were paths that privileged people could convince themselves were available to all who worked hard enough.
If you went to a high school that was all white except for a couple of Black and Asian kids, and those black kids were above average in popularity, then it was because they weren't seen as a threat. Also, there's the "he/she is one of the good ones" mentality. Just because somebody has a friend from another race/ethnicity doesn't mean they don't hold prejudiced views about the group in general.
Ecstatic-Bandicoot81@reddit
Just remember, we had the united colors of bennington. I never had black, white, asian, gay, strait, european or mexican friends... just friends. (well, and everybody else were just assholes..or people I hadnt met yet.)
Deliriousglide@reddit
I think that the intolerance was there then as it is now. My experience was growing up in a world of diversity, racial issues existed, homophobia existed, etc etc. but, I was young, unaware of politics as a whole, and a child existing in a decade of free love, anti war, and social acceptance protests. From my youthful viewpoint, things seemed to be always moving in a good direction.
I think in the past 15-20 years, experiencing them as an adult, the cults of personality, driving political factions, appearance of alternate facts, resurgence of hate based organizations, a resurgence of political divisiveness “divide and conquer”, and a turn towards full on dismissal not just of sunsets of the populace but of anyone and everyone having a differing opinion. New realities available for every flavor of humanity.
I don’t really think so much that when we were young the hated and intolerance weren’t there. More so that it wasn’t fashionable or socially acceptable to wear your hatred on your sleeve, or to be intentionally out of touch with your own humanity.
Admirable-Cobbler319@reddit
My family moved around A LOT when I was growing up. By the time I graduated high school, I had attended 13 different schools.
Some places were openly racist. Some places seemingly escaped racism altogether.
ALL places were homophobic.
I think a lot of how we view these issues depend on where we grew up. My husband swears there was no racism in his high school. That is probably true because it was an all white school.
Racism was not talked about openly back then and a lot of us white kids honestly didn't know it existed.
I had no idea it existed until I was 17 years old and started dating a black kid. I heard the N word for the first time in my life and was shocked. My boyfriend, however, was not shocked; he had faced insane amounts of racism and he had learned to live with it. That sucks, obviously, but my point is that racism definitely existed.....most of us were just lucky in that we didn't realize.
Multigrain_Migraine@reddit
I can relate to this. I never really heard any racial slurs as a kid. It wasn't until I went to college and started meeting people from other areas that I started hearing all these other slurs and I was shocked by it.
discgman@reddit
The Rodney King beating happened in the 90s, then the LA riots. Gay marriage was illegal then, HIV was still a thing. You may think your little circle was cool, but once you stepped out of your bubble there was still problems in the 90s.
Blossom73@reddit
Exactly. This post is very weird and comes across as clueless and privileged.
NostalgicRetro73@reddit
I was born and raised in Southern California. As a white dude being surrounded by different races since I was a toddler, I was very laid back with everyone, didn’t stare or question. If they were nice, that’s what I liked. But being disabled since birth, I had a different mindset than others. The difference in people didn’t matter to me, unless if they were mean people.
Wooden-Glove-2384@reddit
Yes. I've had the same experience.
I left my hometown when I was 18 and never went back.
I lost touch with everyone i went to high school with.
20 years later when Facebook became a thing, I got back in contact with those tech savvy enough to use Facebook.
Big fucking mistake.
Over the years a good 3/4 have shown themselves to be as intolerant as we made fun of their parents for being
The whole lot disgusts me and I should get the hell off Facebook or at least cull the shit out of my friends list.
I don't know if they were always like this and kept quiet out of embarrassment.
I don't know if this is as a result of getting more conservative as you get older.
I don't really care.
Stick a fork in Gen X, we tried, we're done, Some of us got the message that racial/religious/sexual preference based hate is crap and too many of us have become part of the problem
qole720@reddit
Maybe it was in some parts of the country, but I grew up in Georgia. I'm a late GenX ('79). I have great uncles who were members of the KKK. My dad's generation of boomers were the first kids to go to integrated schools in our area, and they talk like it was some great hardship. They were pretty good at spreading hateful ideology to their kids too. I still remember the day my dad told me that he'd disown me if I ever "thought to bring home a [n-word] girl or a [slur for hispanic] bitch." He also told me he'd kill me if I ever "turned gay."
Personally, I'm pretty empathetic, so I've learned that people are not their color of skin or sexuallity, but to judge people by their character. Unfortunately I can't say the same about most of the people or family I grew up around.
GoldenAgeGamer72@reddit
Yep. Growing up we watched TV shows like Sanford and Son, That's My Momma, Chico and the Man, Good Times, The Jeffersons, and color never even came up in the discussion. At least not in any way that the subject comes up these days. But the truth is nowadays the government and the media through the government and the elites are doing their best to divide us. It makes us easier to control. So they're creating false narratives and perpetuating race issues that really aren't out there in the real world. And if they've sprang back up it's a result of said narratives.
pineapple_bandit@reddit
I'm sorry what? Color never came up on The Jeffersons and Good Times? You need to go back and watch them because color came up every single episode in those shows.
GoldenAgeGamer72@reddit
I didn't write it correctly. Color came up in the shows for sure (George was always bashing calling his neighbor Honkey lol) but it didn't come up in society as it does now.
ElYodaPagoda@reddit
Absolutely correct! The people who are bringing up systemic racism have no interest in correcting the problem, they are solely motivated to get people at each other's throats. They'll just dismiss the predominately black TV shows we watched as irrelevant, just like anyone's "black friend" isn't your real friend, you just keep them there to show others you're not racist.
NotAnAIOrAmI@reddit
It's hilarious that you think the 90's were an enlightened decade.
Karfedix_of_Pain@reddit
I grew up in Minnesota in the '80s. Wasn't really the most diverse place... I remember all the jokes about "White Cloud" because St. Cloud, Minnesota was so overwhelmingly white. I mean - we had different flavors of Scandinavian, I guess. But that wasn't really what we'd typically call "diversity" these days.
I remember a good amount of tension and grumping about all the Hmong coming to Minnesota... And then a bunch of Somalis in the '90s... But I guess I don't recall a lot of outright racism and bigotry? It was more just trying to figure out how to accommodate a bunch of people with really different views and the issues that it caused. I don't recall a lot of folks complaining about the new folks eating pets or whatever. And I have very fond memories of the Festival of Nations when I was a kid.
I will agree that things felt a lot more positive, optimistic, and progressive in the '90s. Not perfect, obviously. As a nonbinary, queer weirdo I was still facing some discrimination myself. There was still work to be done. But it felt like we were heading in the right direction at least.
No-Win-8380@reddit
I feel the same way.
misec_undact@reddit
It's true but it wasn't "somewhere along the line", it was a concerted effort by rightwing politicians to create wedge issue propaganda out of appeals to lizard brained tribalism and that has once again legitimized bigotry, however thinly veiled.
PotPumper43@reddit
You sound very, very white. No rage?
Petdogdavid1@reddit
When politics figured out that rage and fear can influence large groups of people, they created tribes and pit them against each other. It's a very effective system.
pdx_mom@reddit
I think a whole bunch of people maybe saw others have stuff and they maybe thought everything was easy. It isn't.
If you talk to people today they pretend like whatever we are doing today is worse than what was going on 50 or 100 years ago. Which is clearly untrue.
It's as if people want to be divisive.
Many people seem to think if anyone has stuff they must have stolen it. It's kind of absurd.
Blossom73@reddit
Sorry, but I disagree. There was no shortage of racism in our generation growing up.
I'm a white Gen Xer married to a black Gen Xer. I grew up in a nearly all white inner city neighborhood, where a lot of the white residents threw the N word around casually and frequently. There was lots of homophobia too.
There were terrible racial tensions in the public schools in my neighborhood when they integrated, and actual race riots broke out over it.
I attended a very diverse, all girls' Catholic high school, in my city's downtown, that was about 60% black. There weren't racial tensions there, but most students self segregated by race, at lunch, and in their friend groups.
Lily_V_@reddit
I think the path forward from overt racism and bigotry is going to be bumpy. It’s worse if it’s not dealt with. All of this white fragility is making it worse. We can’t deny it, gotta go thru it.
Ok_Entrepreneur_8509@reddit
We have most definitely regressed. But the 90s were also most definitely not a time when any sort of bigotry was "figured out". I certainly didn't feel nearly as safe or accepted in the 90s as an LGBTQ person. I think we were headed in the right *direction* then, but we are headed backward now.
It felt like steady progress towards greater "mainstream" acceptance of minority groups/viewpoints. That is to say that it seemed like bigoted behavior was generally rejected by the majority of visible culture. The predominant approach seemed to be one of curiosity. e.g. "That word is offensive to people in this group? Wow, I didn't realize that. I am glad to know."
It was only around 2012ish when it seemed like the voices of division and intolerance got much louder and the idea that acceptance of other people/viewpoints than you represented some sort of attack on your own values.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Instead of “figured out” I should have said that we just didn’t care. My bad.
Ok_Entrepreneur_8509@reddit
That's fair. In the 90s there were definitely social circles and contexts (in my life at least) where I agree those differences were basically ignored. I don't think I ever had a friend group who cared about race or sexuality.
But I also saw quite a few other contexts where they were not. Or where ignoring the differences was part of the problem.
mushbum13@reddit
We didn’t have one of two political parties totally beholden to Russia, intent on rotting America’s strength from the inside out.
oddoma88@reddit
This world is a very big place and each region has it's own ways.
As for the world, you only see bits of it and unless you travelled the world and saw it with your own eyes, you have no clue what is going on.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Which is exactly why it’s a shame to lose the art of civilized discussion and debate.
oddoma88@reddit
such thing is only possible inside a small curated group
You see it with kids, once the critical mass is reached, it's hell on earth.
Humans be like that.
MantisShrimpUpTop@reddit
It’s the cameras.
A lot of people used to get away with a lot more secret shit before cameras were everywhere. Now they don’t hide it but really that’s just because there’s nowhere to hide anymore.
l0realie@reddit
Your gay friends couldn't get married. They had no protections when their spouse died and no rights to see them in the hospital. HIV/AIDS were still ravaging the the community.
This is exactly what we mean when we say someone is privileged. You believed everything was fine because you didn't have to deal with the problems beneath the surface.
Thirty_Helens_Agree@reddit
Speaking of no protection when your spouse died, my mom had a gay coworker back then. His long-time partner died suddenly, and the boss made him come to work because that relationship didn’t “count.”
ParkIllustrious1987@reddit
East Coast Gen x here. I grew up the same way, raised my kids to respect all humans and worked in a great environment where everyone got along without racial title's or seeking attention. The country has gone mad.
MamaFen@reddit
Feel you here. Grew up in a middle-class, very immigrant-heavy neighborhood, all the kids were different colors and most spoke multiple languages. Everyone's mom made afternoon snacks from their home country, and all of us traveled in a pack and rotated around to the Russian house, or the Polish house, or the Chinese house, or the Indian house... we were all just KIDS, nothing else mattered.
We could give two flips what color your skin was. When you fell 12 feet out of a pine tree and tore half the skin off your arms in the process, the blood was always the same color and everyone in the group was offering you a shirt to sop it up with.
I don't know where we lost that.
ted_anderson@reddit
No. It didn't "go to hell". It's just that the world has gotten smaller with the advent of technology that allows us to be more truthful about who we are and what we think while remaining anonymous.
I also consider the fact that living in some very progressive and racially inclusive places most of my life, I would have believed that racism was pretty much gone. But then I went to college and got to meet an entire cross section of the US demographic within my group of friends and classmates.
I started to hear about the "driving while black" experiences and how they were getting stopped by the cops EVERY SINGLE DAY without being accused of anything or being charged with any violations. And then other people were telling me about neighborhoods in their area where they weren't allowed to go into. Of course it wasn't a "law" against it in the 80's but everyone knew that if you were the wrong complexion in that neighborhood, the cops were coming to harass you.
Some people even told me about how their experiences were very similar to that scene in "Boyz In the Hood" where Trey and Ricky were trying to escape a drive-by shooting only to get stopped by the cops and threatened with guns the next moment.
Some of the stories that I've been told are too horrible to share on Reddit. But that was a time before we had instantaneous news that made its way around the world. And that was also before anyone had a way to document these events on video. And so what made the Rodney King situation so significant is that a lot of people thought that was the first time something like that ever happened. Half of America said, "OMG!" and the other half said, "Typical."
And so now that everyone has a way to express their hate, whether anonymously or out in the open for the whole world to see, it hasn't necessarily gotten worse. It's just that the bad actors are finding themselves in good company with people that they can commiserate with.
lost_my_other_one@reddit
I grew up in the city with a family/friends that never said a negative word about ppl that didn’t look or act like (orientation) us. I was raised catholic, 12 yrs catholic school. I don’t know what living in a rural community was like then, but now I live in rural America and wow was that a shocker coming into a different worldview. Maybe not related at all, but it’s the only experience I have.
Gitxsan@reddit
Our generation fought really hard to remove labels. Now that we're older, the labels have multiplied and returned with a vengeance!
The-all-seeing-pie@reddit
Honestly it’s a brave statement but it’s 100% true, I’m from the other side of the world basically and the same rings true.
We’ve gone backwards, as a species, or humanity… whatever.
CreatrixAnima@reddit
I think if you ask your friends, though, they will tell you that there were always issues of racism and bias. You just didn’t see it.
Multigrain_Migraine@reddit
Yeah I think this is probably the case. I had a lot of friends and classmates of every race and I wasn't really aware of any racial tensions, but looking back it was probably just that we never discussed it at school.
mesablueforest@reddit
Probably should ask an actual black person what it was like, not just guess at something you didn't/ wouldn't/ couldn't notice.
janlep@reddit
I don’t think we had it figured out, but we were on a positive path. I think social media has set us back so much. It’s created echo chambers where people get their bigotry reinforced and become more and more radical. It’s also a platform for disinformation that has influenced our elections.
atomic_chippie@reddit
Events have changed us for the worse, but even back then, violence was still committed against women at an alarming rate. Two men couldn't walk down the street holding hands in most towns. Movies typically featured Asian and Muslim people as comic relief or "the bad guys".
The level of anger/dismissiveness/racism/injustice has always been there, the internet, skyrocketing costs of living, special interest groups and certain politicians have definitely wound people up on top of many issues still in existence.
krismitka@reddit
Oh no, you lived on some sort of utopic island
MaybeLikeWater@reddit
Our generation created Lalapalooza. We are the original mash up. We had all the same cliche cliques yet we had enough EQ and IQ to recognize that we were a unity of diversity. Regardless if we’re a jock, goth, prep or nerd we all could rap and headbang with ease.
ob1dylan@reddit
All the shared humanity of the 90s eventually led to the election of Barack Obama, when a lot of us felt we might have finally moved past the hate in our country's history.
Unfortunately, the racists and bigots were still there, and they were angry about being shamed and pushed aside. Republicans courted all that hate and grievance, because they knew it would give them reliable votes against the black man in the White House.
What Republican Party leadership didn't expect was that the angry, hateful white folk would not stay compartmentalized in groups like the Tea Party and the Freedom Caucus, but would take over the GOP, because they appealed to the Hate Vote better than anyone else.
The tech bros saw the opportunity to get more and more tax cuts and do whatever they wanted without any fear of regulation, if Republicans are in power, so they amplified the hate and disinformation to help spread conservative messaging and candidates. In a world where everyone gets their "news" from random, unlicensed sources with no regulation, hate intensifies and proliferates, so it only gets worse. Add to that several decades of cuts to education funding, and you have a recipe for a disturbingly large segment of the population who are not just easily manipulated but easily manipulated to commit acts of violence and terror.
The loss of hope and growth of hate and division did not happen organically. It was very much an orchestrated and cultivated phenomenon.
DisplacedCapsFan@reddit
Ask Rodney King.
Typingdude3@reddit
I remember when I was a kid in the 1970's. The 1970's seemed like a paradise of harmony, I don't remember any racism. Shows like All In The Family, The Jeffersons, Good Times, The Waltons, all existed together in harmony and no one cared. Here's the thing not many people realize- the early 1970's was the last time when Americas inner cities weren't overrun with drugs. The severe crack epidemic of the 1980's really ravaged black communities in particular. Many stereotypes were born then. Also, the heroin epidemic of the 1990's also ravaged many poor black communities. The opioid epidemic was in the same era. So the early 1970's was really the last era of innocence in the US. Drug epidemics from the late 1970's thru the 1990's ravaged black communities and caused stereotypes to flourish.
Typingdude3@reddit
I literally remember riding my Big Wheel toy down the sidewalks of suburban Detroit in the early 1970's. No worries. Just 10 years later that would not have been possible due to the drug epidemic.
nememess@reddit
I agree with you on some level, but I'd like to defer to the minority on how they felt in the 90s. A lot of people were silenced against speaking out about the discrimination so we just didn't know about it. But it did happen. Just like the popo have always had problems, we just know more about them now because there's video evidence.
pineapple_bandit@reddit
You are a product of where you grew up. Maybe this was true where you were in California (although my love of early 90s west coast rap tells me perhaps you were shielded a bit).
I was in NYC and things were fucked up throughout the 80s. There was a big racially motivated murder of a teen a few blocks from my house when I was 17. I remember the AIDS crisis hitting the gay community hard in NYC and then in SF when i lived there mid 90s, and the blowback that community received. The people in the ethnic neighborhood where I grew up did not openly accept gay people, any friends that were gay were for sure "gay friends", at best.
That's nice that you lived in a place where these problems weren't present but they were certainly around for a lot of us.
Friendly_King_1546@reddit
It is easy to not see it as a white person. I didn’t. I was never stopped for driving while black until the day I rode with my husband - a 6.4 black man in Ohio. The cop asked several times if I was ok. Weird, right? Then my husband was leaving the college campus and got stopped in the car garage. A white woman had been assaulted and she said it was “a black guy”. How tall? What was he wearing? Was he skinny or broad shouldered? Old or young? Just black. The ONLY reason he was not further detained was his shoes were black, not white. I have thousands of stories but the big one is is this- of all of my in-laws, most if them grew up in the segregation era, Emmitt Till, knew family from Tulsa, watch the Philadelphia apartment bombing on TV, etc. The Klan was still burning crosses in 2004 in Vanadlia, Ohio. I guess we did not see it because we did not have to participate in it- but a lot of folks sure as hell did; on one side or the other.
Multigrain_Migraine@reddit
I had the same idea back in the day, but with time and hindsight I have realised that there was a lot going on that I was completely unaware of. The neighborhood I grew up in and the schools I went to seemed to be fairly harmonious and they were very ethically mixed -- it is a big military town on the edge of the southwest.
I also seem to see more overtly racist, homophobic, etc behaviour every day. But I didn't have a lot of knowledge about the true history of things that went on in the US or around the world, or things that were happening all along but I just didn't know about it.
kafin8ed@reddit
Remember on My So Called Life there was a high school friend of Claire Danes who was a guy that basically cross-dressed and hung out in the girl's restroom in highschool with her throughout the whole show and I don't remember anyone making a fuss about it.
Alpacadiscount@reddit
Short answer: internet
Slightly longer answer: social media
Even longer answer: Both the internet and social media have been weaponized by the 0.01% “elite” (the uber wealthy and powerful) to keep the 99.9% distracted with hate and envy while they further consolidate their wealth and power.
Free Luigi
dk4ua@reddit
I think everyone is holding in their hand part of the cause for what we see today. Info overload, digression of social skills, keyboard warriors popping off with zero accountability. Prior to the great info age we worked, tended to family stuff, caught the 6pm local news and relaxed to the latest, greatest new show of the season. Everything is hyper now. The great info age ain’t really all that great, it’s fast becoming destructive.
YesterdayWise6470@reddit
I also think that decades before we were beginning to get on the right track and we then became derailed. A while back I had been watching movies, plays, and interviews from the 60s. I read articles and books from that era as well. It really seemed as if we were on the verge of really addressing our social ills. Our leaders were making forward progress to understand the root of poverty, education, racism, and misogyny. We had amazing well spoken, educated civil rights leaders and political advocates that we could look up to and trust.... And the, poof, it was gone. All momentum ceased and all the hard work and progress faded away. Is it naive to blame this all on conservatives? Especially Regan?
Erazzphoto@reddit
Conservatives love their non Christian, white male hatred
Zosopagedadgad@reddit
I grew up in Ohio, my father tried his best to create me in his racist ignorant image. In my school, in a suburb of one of the largest cities in the state, we had a handful of non white kids, yet we told all the racist jokes and said all the things our fathers said. We didn't know any better. My high school was "The Rebels" complete with confederate flag and one of our kids dressed up as a confederate officer for every sporting event. It's probably very different in different parts of the country, but I fully disagree that we "had it figured out". This was in northern Ohio, the state that supplied the most soldiers for the north and had a vast underground railroad to free slaves.
Express-Rutabaga-105@reddit
It use to depend on where you grew up and how your parents raised you. There are 50 states in our country.
Now it is based on pop culture and race based politics. Entertainment news drives the narrative today.
SecretSubstantial302@reddit
I see your point, but you have to understand someting. In the 70s, 80s and 90s people socialized more face to face. The more you interact with people with differing backgrounds, the more you realize that there isn't much difference. Now most interaction (social, commercial) is done online. Technology and social media has made more disconnected and siloed.
Beenthere-doneit55@reddit
My senior year of high school (1986)we had to write and get a bill passed in our govt class. I proposed a boycott of South Africa to eliminate apartheid and the guy sitting next to me said “build a wall in Texas to keep the Mexicans out”. That is word for word what he wrote. The entire class supported me and thought my classmate was a complete idiot. He did not get one vote in a room of 30. If this happened today, my classmate would get more votes than I would. In my experience, it was not perfect in late 80’s and 90’s but it is most certainly worse today.
Dioscouri@reddit
The world hasn't changed, what you're describing is the norm. It's even more normal now than it was when we were kids.
What has changed is the degree of information people are subjected to. Today we can see who everyone is. This is true for people we don't know, and the media is always going to give the microphone to the craziest person on every side. They do this because it sells copy, the same as when we were kids.
Today everything we do is monitored by companies that want to sell us something. Consequently, you are exclusively fed things that you agree with, flatter you, and are designed to solicit an emotional response. If you're emotional it's easier to get into your wallet.
helena_handbasketyyc@reddit
There was/is plenty of casual racism, sexism, homophobia, and general assholery among our generation.
Lots of calling things gay, retrded, or using insulting terms like Chnk, P*kis, etc.
Sure, we didn’t use the N-word. And we were more empathetic and open minded in terms of LGBTQ rights, gender equality and other social issues— but it’s a stretch to think we were the pinnacle of progress.
Cognitums@reddit
Here in oregon in the 90's we had skinheads from Metzger's WAR party drive in from Idaho to hold rallies in portland. We used to kick the shit outta them and send them home. So it was definitely different in Cali. Also a gen X'er.
SunshineofMyLyfetime@reddit
Have you tried asking your Black, and Gay friends how their experiences were growing up during that time?
I highly suspect that they weren’t as harmonious, and cheerful as you remember.
floppy_breasteses@reddit
That's how I saw it. Feels like the 2000s created division right when things were in a pretty good place.
Next_Mechanic_8826@reddit
I think you're absolutely right, mainstream media, politicians, and social media have driven a huge wedge in our country.
Kbern4444@reddit
Agree my friend. Gen X provides a baseline of respect regardless of your looks, your hairstyle your sexuality or anything else. If you act like an idiot, do something wrong we don’t like you you keep on being a good human being or at least neutral. We don’t give a fuck where we like you. We are the judgmental generation I can imagine.
Kbern4444@reddit
I’m obviously biased though. To be fair.
SheepishLordofChaos9@reddit
Woof.
This is very wrong.
The anger and division was always there or at the very least present....but there wasn't a public outlet for it to either be exposed or addressed.
There was rage. There was oppression. There was struggle. There was also a conscious effort by the parents of that generation of black parents to either teach their kids that you had to go along to get along or you had your parents that weren't built for a fight and were afraid of losing the life that they had built for themselves and their families.
My parents were both born and raised in tough neighborhoods in two different states...South Bronx, NY and Norfolk, VA. The New York you know today is not what it was in the 50s to the 90s...the Norfolk you see today was not that in 60s to the 00s and in some cases is still "tough." That said, they clawed their way out of the situations and built a family life for me and my brother...they taught us that no matter what, we are black in this country and the rules are different, but they also taught us that you have to bend a bit but never break. We got called what we were called in all sorts of ways....I went to school with white kids who had no couth with parents that had less. I had to grit my teeth some days with my "white friends" who were probably just like OP...thinking that shit was sweet when it always wasn't. I'm old enough now to see the shit that goes on now and can tell you unequivocally that the same tired ass ignorance and conversations were happening in '92 after Rodney King was beat to powder on camera and LA burned...when OJ murdered a white woman....it wasn't about the murder after a while...it became the issue that it was...a black man (albeit one that had no use for the community) on trial by an overwhelmingly white justice system and because of this supposed utopia that I feel the OP is describing because they're experience was what it was.....the conversation was absolutely about race around that situation.
This long ass treatise is to simply say.....maybe it was in a pretty good place for the people who have been the power in this country since its inception but it certainly wasn't if you weren't the complexion for the protection.
StrainAcceptable@reddit
I feel like 9/11 changed the trajectory. Fear, nationalism, never ending wars, militarization of our communities…I could go on but I’m tired.
BumbleMuggin@reddit
Back in our day we were taught to be color blind which kind of works on the surface. We also need to remember that racism has always been there but since 2016 it is more out there. I grew up in a small lily white Ohio town of 2,000. Racism wasn't a problem because we were all white and never thought I was racist.
When George Floyd was murdered it deeply affected me and I decided I needed to be silent and learn. I started with Heather McGee's book the Sum of Us and learned what the systemic racist practices of our country were and what it costs us all. I then read Isabel Wilkerson's book Caste and that book broke me. I saw all my ignorance in a bright light and I saw the playbook I and most white Americans carry and use.
We've never reconciled with out past. Until we do we will watch racism simply shapeshift but never end.
go_west_til_you_cant@reddit
Another CA Asian here. I suspect OP and many others here don't even think of Asians when they think about racism: it's that far off their radar even still. We Asian kids grew up being ridiculed in every form of media. We were either the comic relief or the ninja bad guy. Never the main character. Never the love interest. Did you ever read a book where an Asian kid was the hero? Doubt it. We were Long Duck Dong or those waiters who couldn't pronounce jingle bells at the end of A Christmas Story. But most of all dismissed entirely. Don't fool yourself into thinking that all races were treated equally back in.
HighJeanette@reddit
You are blind.
Barnus77@reddit
Agree with a lot of this. I feel like in the 90’s the liberal goal was simply…. Equality. Universal human rights for everyone. Now we have social media and these weird games of Oppressor VS Oppressed, “Colonizer” vs “Indigenous” etc. On every side of every issue, people want more rights for their “side” and less rights for the other side. Even liberals (of which I am one). It’s this new social media driven tribalism which only seems to be getting worse and definitely isn’t going to end well.
On the other side of the coin though, a lot of things we thought were fine in the 90’s… were not. A lot of marginalized people suffered in silence in a lot of ways. Straight White Men got away with almost anything. The good old boys club always worked behind the scenes. As a white male of a certain age, growing up in the 80’s and 90’s… the wink-nod racial / sexist / etc things that older men or other kids would say with no shame was batshit insane and totally accepted behind closed doors. A lot of things needed to change.
PrisonCity_Cowboy@reddit
I’m with you. Absolutely! 100% my experience as well. BUT GET THIS:
I was raised in the South!!
I’m talking about Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Texas. Yeah, I know. People want to believe we have a noose on every tree but it just isn’t true. I do not hate anyone just because of their skin. That is absurd & completely illogical!!!!
In the 90’s we were just teens but we all thought that the LA riots was in isolated incident & that by the time we were became big boys in thr 21st century that racism would be all but dead on TV, the news, etc. We all had older people in ours lives that lived through the 60’s & were a little racist. BUT these people got on our nerves. We strived to be the opposite of them! So we envisioned our own adulthood as being pretty much free of ignorant racist attitudes.
Man were we dead wrong! We did grow up. We’re definitely not racist. But we called racist almost everyday. It’s a disappointing future now I’m living it live.
MSampson1@reddit
Remember, we had the anti racism commercial with the kid and grandpa out on the boat fishing and grandpa told him he was prejudice because he referred to someone as his “Jewish friend “. That’s how we figured out racism. Too bad a bunch of bigots went and stirred up the division again. Probably because they took that commercial off the air. You know the one, if you’re old enough
SquatBootyJezebel@reddit
Well, bless your heart.
SuckleMyKnuckles@reddit
As a formerly dirt poor and mixed race kid in the 90s, racism was alive and well. You were just too privileged to see it.
As for it going all to hell, that was pretty clearly in 2000 when america allowed the republicans to steal the presidency for the first time.
Unlivingpanther@reddit
When you're going from one ditch to the other, you gotta go past the middle of the road. It's hard to stay in the middle.
s33k@reddit
Okay here are some things folks our age need to know:
Social media gets ad revenue based on engagement.
Happy content does not generate engagement. (Engagement is literally just clicking on, liking a post, sharing,or leaving a comment.)
Rage generates engagement.
Algorithms, AI, troll farms, and bots are being used to drive engagement to a degree never before seen on the Internet.
The Internet we came up on in the 90s has nothing in common with today. Most people interact with content via social media platforms. These platforms need to drive engagement to sell ads. They prioritize their financial needs over your emotional needs. You are the product being sold, not the client being served.
All this division we see is manufactured to drive engagement.
I would like to suggest moving away from social media because it is not an accurate portrayal of the way real people interact. And the longer we pretend like it is, the more likely we become that reality.
clownpuncher13@reddit
It probably depended on where you lived.
While I thought things were the way you described it the one black guy in our friend group said that his experience wasn't like that and he was called the n word or boy on several occasions. When the police came in to give the drugs chat to my private prep school class and said that wearing a Starter jacket and looking like "a thug" made you a suspect in their eyes the white kids nodded along while the black kids protested how this wasn't fair. They were mostly suburban kids and were already sick of the extra attention they got from the local cops whenever they were driving around their neighborhoods.
A guy I worked with who went to a public school said that there was a pretty strong division between the race groups in his school just like you see in prison movies. It was so bad that he claimed to be German, since his mom was from Germany, so that he didn't get lumped in with the white kids if some beef started up.
jeon2595@reddit
The constant focus on race has definitely turned back the progress we made during the 80’s, 90’s and early 00’s.
Mr-Hoek@reddit
Propaganda peddled by foreign & corporate influenced social media and cable news such as fax news....this is the answer.
Also, social media has allowed smaller pockets of shitbag racists to unify their hatred and outlandish propagandized fears into a common narrative that has worked its way too deep into our society for it to be excised without major social reconstruction.
Long story short...take care of you and your guys.
ArnoldZiffl@reddit
To this day Most people aren’t bigots. And Most don’t give a shit what others do. There is always a small minority that do and don’t say. And even smaller that hate and have no issues saying it out loud.
Chicagoj1563@reddit
I couldn’t agree more. It’s not just the traditional isms, but new ones. People are finding ways with social media to judge people in harsh ways. In the 90s, it was a different time. Too bad we regressed. Maybe things will change in the future.
Luingalls@reddit
I'm a born and raised San Diegan. It wasn't until after I grew way up that I realized I had been raised in a sheltered bubble, very much like the one you described here. This is also why my family hasn't left for 6 generations, I suspect. At least one of the reasons why.
Valerie_Eurodyne@reddit
That is...so much bovine defecation. There was plenty of racism in homophobia in the 1990s and I remember it well. Stop looking at the past through rose colored glasses. Things were just as fucked up back then as they are now just in different ways. You see it more now because of the internet, because the net and the 24/7/365 news cycle makes it almost impossible to get away from hearing it all the time.
304libco@reddit
Yeah, I personally feel like we have regressed. Now people complain about shows with minority casts when they were everywhere in the late 80s and 90s.
OperationPlus52@reddit
I grew up in very similar situations in NYC and Florida, I became very conscious of this stuff when I started beefing with a bunch of skinheads in my second Jr. High. I had always gone to highly mixed schools or mostly minority schools up until I got kicked out of my one Jr. High and had to go to this one, it was mostly white and I knew a bunch of the few minority kids there already and quickly made myself a target through those relationships.
Overall I think our view of back then was often very rose tinted glasses, we didn't see what our non-white friends went through, and we were usually almost as bad as the bigots we loath because of our ignorant use of slur words.
Also that's not even talking about the amount of copaganda we generally consumed that made us think that the cops were treating people fairly and that abusive policing was the criminals faults, made us more compliant and more prone to look away and cast judgement, while matters were usually a whole lot more nuanced and complex.
sterling3274@reddit
Sure, you felt that way, but a lot of other people hated your black friends because they were black and hated your gay friends because they were gay.
I think the difference between then and now was you didn't get called out for being a racist bigot so much back then, whereas now the racist bigots are upset because they can't be a racist bigot without someone potentially calling them a racist bigot.
ElYodaPagoda@reddit
Racism was bad back then, and is bad today. We're not solely our immutable characteristics, or the language we spoke when we were born. We're all people that should have some grace given to one another. I'm of the opinion that we all bleed the same blood, and deserve to treat others respectfully.
PlaxicoCN@reddit
I think you are idealizing that era.
Rubiks_Click874@reddit
people shit on rap metal but it brought my city together
Select_Translator291@reddit
Yeah that’s some CA dreaming. I’m from MS. It was and is still a little different
krampuskream@reddit
My wife and I both grew up in Oklahoma. Back in 80s and 90s it was a Democratic state but still in the south and lots of the adults back then had racist roots. Gen X kids were first ones to just be friends with whomever! And as previous poster said...broke down more by class/income. We talk to our kids about the same thing and how it is different now. And you all are right- social media big part of it. American society, now, strives to create divisions! Keep informing your kids Gen X parents so they can know the best ways to go forward in life!!!
wardenferry419@reddit
Emotional responses at others' behavior were once more fleeting and isolated. Now they are etched in digital stone causing avalanches of hate and negativity.
No-Drop2538@reddit
I'm shocked the civil rights stuff passed in the sixties. And now it will be repealed...
Designer-Mirror-7995@reddit
Because the WORLD got to see, on video, how the state forces abused the protesters with dogs and water cannon and Billy clubs on that day captured for History, and murica still had the presence of mind to be embarrassed.
NeverEnoughGalbi@reddit
It passed in the 60s and white people have been fighting against it since then.
Invasive-farmer@reddit
It was done on purpose. We did have it figured out. Still do. But there are those who know that division and chaos is a tool for them.
Just keep on keeping on, man. Lead by example. Even if they don't remember is...they need to learn.
FaithlessnessCool849@reddit
Exactly!
Bruddah827@reddit
It was very similar to that here in my town and state. I’ve seen it progressively get good, and now I’ve witnessed it walk back a bit…. It’s very disheartening to witness so much open hate again. There used to be consequences for such things. Don’t seem like it any longer. People just go on not saying anything and let it go.
FaithlessnessCool849@reddit
A lot of effort has gone into dividing us. It is intentional, and the more we give into the anger and division, the easier it is to distract us from what the government is doing.
madogvelkor@reddit
I was living in the South in the 90s and there was still racism there, and homophobia. Probably more homophobia than racism. I moved to the Northeast in my early 20s and was (pleasantly) shocked to see two guys casually kiss each other in public.
Though GenX was less racist and homophobic than the older generations, even in the South.
AwkwardTraffic199@reddit
Yes. We took a wrong turn, especially after 9/11 and North America is now racist beyond what I thought possible. Hate and division abound. It's awful. Here's to moving forward in a more positive way with the change in politics, and a return to treating people like people again.
JETEXAS@reddit
I think the vein of hate that was always there just got a bigger microphone through social media.
My mom was always part of the right wing super Christian super conservative groups. They passed around these little comic book propaganda pamphlets that would make claims like any versions of the Bible that wasn't NIV was Satanic, Catholics were satanists, Homosexuals were created by molesting kids and they tried to molest as many kids as possible to make more, etc. She tried to get Siddhartha banned from the reading list when I was in middle school and when she failed I had to do an alternative reading.
As far as racism went, I didn't see any in our schools or friend groups, but then again, my towns weren't very diverse. Meanwhile, the Dixie flag was still flying everywhere and while to me it just meant the Dukes of Hazzard, I can't know how that made others feel, but I'm guessing, not good. Also, the N word was still being used very openly.
I think the gays had it way worse. It was the worst insult you could give someone at the time, and they were really painted as all being monstrous child molesters back then. Matthew Shepard wasn't the only one who got murdered.
I thought we had really hit a turning point in 2008, but it's gone downhill extremely fast since Obama left office.
movingmouth@reddit
I don't really understand the objective of this post but there is definitely racism and homophobia in the '90s. I am from the south but...LA riots? OJ Simpson? Matthew Shepard?
jewelsforjules@reddit
Being from rural Southern America, there was still (and are still) places where hatred is taught.
I do agree that there was a hopeful stride forward in the 90s. As a generation, I felt like we were preparing to break the mold set by previous generations. Somewhere along the decades, many of us seemed to assimilate. There are pockets of forward, progressive thoughts and ideas. But it is not the overwhelming majority.
I hope GenZ can pull off what we couldn't, or didn't. The world they are entering into is going to be far harder than ours to achieve even basics of the "American Dream".
BanDelayEnt@reddit
No, we didn't have racism and bigotry figured out in the 70s and 80s. No. What you are recalling as peace was just the silence of marginalized people. They're just more vocal now, and therefore so are the ignorant jerks who refuse to respect their liberty.
sadtastic@reddit
I've heard people from the Silent Generation and Boomers say things along the same lines as "everyone used to get along in my day". Maybe they weren't racist themselves and they got along with the people in their neighborhood, but it was still bad for minorities.
Don't forget that Timothy McVeigh who did the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995 was inspired by The Turner Diaries, a book popular among white supremacists which lays out a blueprint to start a race war.
Also, trans people existed in the 90s and they were either invisible or treated as a punchline - or even a shock reveal (like in The Crying Game).
Reddisuspendmeagain@reddit
It was still there, it just wasn’t celebrated by the President and his crowd, those types of people stayed hidden and stayed under the rock where they belonged. It was there but met with go away!
I graduated high school c/o 1991 with a few skinheads and they used to protest across the street from my alma mater. Jerry Springer even came to town in 1993 to film his talk show about the community. It’s always been there but it was a spectacle, something to be ashamed of, something to be shamed for, something that society did not tolerate. You’re looking back with rose-colored glasses because maybe you were a kid/younger so you didn’t notice it.
biskino@reddit
‘… somewhere sling the line it all went to hell.’
Somewhere along the line you were confronted with reality and now you have to exist in the discomfort of observing people asserting their rights and their humanity.
Black peoples and lgbtq+ people have been struggling for their rights since before the 90’s, all through the 90’s and to this day.
I’m not even American and I’m wondering how a Californian can forget Latasha Harlan or Rodney King (just off the top of my head). And you remember that whole big riot right in the middle of your ‘racism is over era’?
dadsnotheredude@reddit
I remember the LA riots, things were not ok.
Dont_get_mad_Tito@reddit
My black son (95’) grew up in San Diego. He began dealing with race in preschool. Trying to keep the smile on that boys face was the challenge of the day for me. I wish I could have simply raised him.
Door_Number_Four@reddit
I think you need to ask your black friends and gay friends about how they remembered the 90s.
(If you are still friends with them.)
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Sorry no. I’ve moved to my ivory tower and have cut off communication with all of them. Is that what you are looking for?
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Why are you getting defensive? You presented a situation clearly from your own POV without considering how people different from you may have felt or what they experienced at those times. You're being told that your perspective is narrow. Perhaps you should sit with what people are saying instead of attacking those offering a different perspective.
Door_Number_Four@reddit
Nope. But your defensiveness is telling.
We all have friendships come and go from our lives as time passes. I was stating if these people are still in your life, you should ask them about how they remembered those times.
I’ve had these discussions, and they are illuminating.
Peacanpiepussycat@reddit
This is crazy that you say this. My best friend for 35 years is a gay man . We often talk about how when we were young things were so much different for him. I feel horribly that it was something I never noticed growing up ..we each had different friends groups , I would hang out with his which were gay club kids but he never hung out with mine. It wasn’t something that was talked about . Me as straight cute girl , I was welcomed into HIS group but he didn’t feel comfortable in mine. We grew up outside Boston with a community for all different types but you didn’t see them interacting together. It seems that this generation is more excepting of it. Which is great thing.
ElYodaPagoda@reddit
Where I grew up, and still live, there weren't a lot of black people. But we lived in a predominately black neighborhood, and us kids played Star Wars together, had dinner at each other's houses, and didn't consider each other any different, because we were kids and weren't indoctrinated in regards to race.
Fast forward to 20 years ago, working as a bus driver, seeing the kids of different races and backgrounds talking about Pokemon and Yugioh without race entering the equation.
I think racial problems exist because certain groups WANT conflict between the races.
My best friend on my street was black, and we had all sorts of fun in those days, not considering race, and just living. His parents had a decent amount of money, so he ended up with the best GI Joe figures and sets. We eventually graduated up to neighborhood-wide "wars" wielding fake machine guns, emulating movies like Red Dawn. We ended up having to move from that neighborhood, so we saw each other less until high school. I would see him sporadically as the years went on. He got a full ride scholarship for football in college, and settled on a career in executive protection. For some reason, we had never traded phone numbers in the years since!
Redvelvet0103@reddit
I love this response. Makes me smile
app_generated_name@reddit
I think they are implying that time moves on, as do people and relationships. You might not be friends with any of them at this point in time. Maybe some have passed away, maybe life got in the way.
The way you responded says a lot about your views.
gcpuddytat@reddit
This should be the top comment.
MonoBlancoATX@reddit
This
Illustrious-Pea-5691@reddit
Poor feller
Pre3Chorded@reddit
What year were the riots after four white California cops beat up a man named Rodney King again?
CyndiIsOnReddit@reddit
I just saw something in my town's FB group that was so ugly and racist, talking about how there's so much 'black on white crime" nobody ever talks about. His stats are some cut and paste job with no context and it's obvious he's just a BigOlBigot. But what bothers me is it's been sitting there two days and the mods didn't remove it. Probably likes the drama it generated but maybe they're racist losers too.
I DID grow up in a hotbed of racism here in the South. Black and white students had their own things. The schools were desegregated but the kids kept to themselves. I was in a special class for advanced students though and my best friend was a little girl named Kim. I won't say I don't see color and I knew we were different in some ways, but I loved her so much. We were best friends all through elementary school until she moved away. I wish I knew what happened to her.
But I'm a 69er so I grew up before the 90s. I do feel like things had definitely improved. When I was in school white kids were shamed for "race mixing". They were looked down on. I don't know how the black families felt of course. I don't know if they were against it too, but I know my grandfather said horrible things about black people and once my mom found I wanted to go out with a black guy she begged me not to, not because she was racist but because she was terrified of my grandfather finding out. He could be very mean and he used his signature as co-signer for my mom's home loan to threaten her all the time. She was more scared we'd be kicked out of our home. And that was standard for the men around here. I feel like the women were all "God loves all colors!" but the men were just not that progressive I guess.
And I have encountered many young men lately that remind me of them. They are the ones fighting against DEI, because they think white people should always come first. They don't care if both are qualified applicants, they should always pick the white person over anyone else. Why else would they fight so hard against it? They like to pretend that minorities are given priority over qualifications but that's not true and they're told this repeatedly so it must be the racism.
Bill_maaj1@reddit
That isn’t how dei works. People who aren’t the most qualified are hired.
I don’t care about a person’s skin color, I would hire the best person.
CyndiIsOnReddit@reddit
It is actually how it works. If you have two equally qualified candidates, DEI initiatives recommend hiring the minority BECAUSE they are historically overlooked BECAUSE of their minority status. What you're saying here is the myth that keeps getting pushed by conservatives.
https://www.ywboston.org/didnt-earn-it-and-other-lies-dei-myths-debunked/
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/debunking-myth-dei-programs-qualified-job-candidates-ed-broussard-5lgfe
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2024/01/31/3-of-the-most-popular-dei-myths-debunked/
I mean article after article spells this out. It was never meant to choose any minority that was not qualified. Now maybe some jobs are doing that because they don't know how it works but more often than not it's just white gripes. Like with Adam Carolla griping that minorities were getting in before him, assuming he was more qualified than them.
Flat-Leg-6833@reddit
Not much mixing between races where I grew up on Long Island, NY in the 1980s. A mixed neighborhood was when a Jewish family lived on a block with Italian Catholics 😂 Homophobia was also quite rampant. The Cosby show did not reflect reality and the only pppular TV show to be even moderately accepting of homosexuals was “The Golden Girls.” Leaving aside popular culture, “color blindness” was not something I observed in the suburbs outside of NYC especially when it came to drawing school district boundaries (fear of bussing though on the wane was still discussed).
whitebean@reddit
I grew up in Texas and for the most part, I had the experience you had. There were of course bigots but I felt like we were living in a "woke" era (without the stupid label). Our music scenes and cliques all overlapped and we just accepted everybody for the most part.
temerairevm@reddit
I think this is based on location, and now with the internet you’re seeing more of a cross section of the US instead of being in a place that’s better than average about it.
I grew up rural, and that place did NOT have racism figured out then and at no time since have they figured it out.
And (this is the 80s but relevant I think) Gen X had a front row seat to the start of the AIDS epidemic and I’m sure hundreds of masters theses have been written about homophobia’s role there.
Gay people didn’t really exist openly in my town at that time. It was just kids who got bullied for gender nonconformity, people who left as soon as possible, and deeply closeted people. About half the lesbians I know that are my age did a stint married to a guy in their early 20s. Including one who now admits how patently ridiculous it was even then, who is still “army buddies” with her ex.
DryGeologist3328@reddit
Could have been where you were living and what race you are, which would determine whether it was in your face or not.
I’ll preface this with the fact that I am technically millennial (born in 82), but I’m so close to GenX that I feel I identify with both. I’m Black and have lived in CA my entire life. I was born and raised in San Francisco until 91 when I moved to Livermore CA. In San Francisco, I don’t remember experiencing racism from white people, but from some Asians. Luckily, I had enough good experiences with my Asian friends and their families that it didn’t affect me too much.
When I moved to Livermore at age 9 1/2, I experienced racism on a daily basis from kids, adults, and teachers/administrators (I was an excellent student in SF, but started falling behind in Livermore). I wasn’t even allowed into some of my friends homes because as they put it “Blacks were not allowed in the house,” some white kids didn’t want me to physically touch them because I’m Black, I was called a n*gger and spat on by a random adult male while walking to the Beacon gas station to buy a soda, in middle school teachers accused me of being in a gang (Norte) because most of my friends were Latino, etc. After dealing with so much on a constant basis, I ended up hating white people for years to come. Processing these experiences as a kid, I just figured that was how all white people really were.
When I moved to another Bay Area city at the age of 14, I stopped experiencing racism on a daily basis and just every now and again. It was also usually more subtle than overt, so my feeling went from hating all white people to just not trusting them until I had enough reason to believe they weren’t racist. It wasn’t until college that I finally accepted that there is trash in all races and you really have to just sift through the garbage to find decent people.
But yeah, racism was alive and well in the 90s, you just maybe didn’t notice because you did not have to experience it.
Florflok@reddit
We also didn't feel the need to discuss our politics, sexuality, or religion to the world.
Sufficient-Host-4212@reddit
Nah. We didn’t have it figured out. Those folks went the extra mile to calm down the aggro racist bigot. Toleration best case. Cause, keep it civil.
Roles reversed? nobody cries louder.
TankSinattra@reddit
We were getting too close to finding out who is really against all of us so they had to double down on ways to divide us
Redvelvet0103@reddit
I think a lot of people are voicing the same sentiments… internet and social media have skewed our perceptions of society as a whole and we see more overt racism and bigotry because we are exposed to so many more sources, communities and media. Were the 90’s better or worse? Depends who you ask. But there was a sense of optimism in that era that I think we have very much lost. I would argue there was more optimism in the 60’s than we have today (but not my era). It wasn’t because things were great. But because people believed they could get better. There is too much despair in our current age. And it is due in large part to social media. (The irony of posting this on Reddit is not lost on me). Then again, perhaps I’m romanticizing a distant past
GladosPrime@reddit
Yes, the economy was better. 2014 was the last good year.
uncleawesome@reddit
Some people in a particular political party have seen the future and it isn't looking good for them. They've decided to step up the hate and name calling to wring every last second of control out of their constituents.
LordNitram76@reddit
I agree with Sufficent_Space8484 . When we were younger in the 80's and early 90's. We didnt really care about race or orientation. If you were cool with us, we didnt care about the other stuff. I still maintain friendships with people who some considered different.
app_generated_name@reddit
Did you forget about the Rodney King riots?
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Of course not and you’re missing the point. I’m not saying that institutional racism was solved. That’s silly. I’m talking about our social interactions on a day to day basis.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
If you were not white and/or not straight in the 90s, you'd have to have nerves of steel to say what you actually thought or convey what was discussed in circles without us in attendance.
TheUknownPoster@reddit
you're talking about YOUR social interactions, not OURS.
Pinkbeans1@reddit
Yes. They are. This is such a profoundly non black take on growing up genx.
And yes, I did put two spaces after the periods.
TheUknownPoster@reddit
Two Spaces??? (the old ways are returning!)
Conscious-Evidence37@reddit
THIS. Just because you felt that way about your friends does not mean that is how THEY felt.
app_generated_name@reddit
I am not missing your point at all. Were people nicer to your face? Sure, most were.
What you cannot know, and what the riots highlighted, is what people actually thought.
Thirty_Helens_Agree@reddit
Or the AIDS crisis?
dbeman@reddit
East Coast checking in…racism was still prevalent in my area throughout the 90s. Not quite the violent rhetoric that seems to have returned lately but it existed for sure and was noticeable.
Gourmeebar@reddit
I remember when I was in junior high school in Hawthorne California my very good friend who happened to be white told me that the black girls in high school would pick her sister up so she could see in the mirror because she was so short. I thought that was so nice. Another good friend who happened to be white would ask me if certain guys who happened to be black were cute because she couldn’t tell. When I got to high school the mirrors weren’t high. That bitch was fucken with me. It took years for me to realize the racism behind this. I’m from Cali by the way, my whole life.
AlphariuzXX@reddit
I’m black, grew up in an all white town in Michigan in the 90’s, I was treated like the coolest kid in the town, simply cause I was black. Kinda felt unfair that all the girls liked me, ha! I played on all the sports teams for our school. Was homecoming king two years in a row.
I may be biased. But I think race was not a problem in small town America. At least not in mine.
tummyrot@reddit
Growing up as an army brat, I lived in 6 different states and 2 countries. I lived in Georgia, Arizona, Texas, Louisiana, Illinois and New Jersey . As an adult I've lived in Louisiana (2 additional cities/regions) Texas (again) and Oregon. Racism is/was rampant in every state and unavoidable. Homophobia equally, if not worse, so. I wish I had your childhood. (FYI - I'm a white hetero dude.)
I'm still waiting to live in the "figured out" world you were able to experience.
lokibeat@reddit
I feel the same way, but it's because I'm white. We didn't feel the racism and may not have been exposed to it. The Rodney King riots and the OJ trial were demonstrations that the black lived experience and the white one were different and white folks just didn't get it. The hatred and resentment by those who are vocal about it now was present, but it was repressed or covered up as overt racism was for lack of a better word, was politically incorrect. Now it's just overtly demonstrated and even flaunted by the extreme right.
WillDupage@reddit
I have little to no actual data to back this up but I agree. I don’t know if we just fooled ourselves into thinking we were going in the right direction? When I was young it seemed like the hard-core racists were much older -like my grandparents’ age. Some people my parents age were kinda racist but at least apologetic about it, and the few kids my age spouting that BS were kinda dumb and trashy. Shoot, my semi-racist* grandma voted for Obama a year before she died.
Last 15 years I keep asking myself where did all this come from? Who opened Pandora’s box?
(*how can someone be semi-racist? She was polite to everyone, but the occasional comment would slip out, betraying her upbringing. She had friends among minority groups, but still had some negative stereotype views. I think it’s when something is very ingrained, but recognized to not be right and they try not to let it out. The infamous “Black friends are nice to have, but if you marry one you’re dead to me” was an unspoken undercurrent. People are sometimes walking contradictions.)
Heavy_Law9880@reddit
That's a wild take given how violently racist the 80's and 90's were. FYI claiming to "not see color" is some seriously racist thinking.
Illustrious-Pea-7105@reddit
No because in the 90’s we were trying to handle it by just ignoring it. While that may appear good to some, it has the effect of erasing the past trauma and negative things that our country inflicted on marginalized communities. To truly get to a place where racism, homophobia, and any other discriminatory practices are in our past, we have to reckon with that damage in our present and help those affected by its legacy overcome the present struggles they have as a result.
alfamale_@reddit
I always felt the same, but I think the issue is the establishment had been able make white men feel that way to keep everyone quiet.
I imagine there would be different views from the communities you mentioned.
(There were no black Friends and the only LGBTQ+ was there solely to denigrate a main cast member for laughs)
BTW - I'm a straight, white male, this is just my take
GlobalTapeHead@reddit
I am not a CA native and actually grew up in VA, TX and GA - some would call that the Deep South. Yet I had the same experience growing up in the 90s. No real racial tensions or divisions. We all just hung out together and did our thing. Nobody cared what race you were. Nobody cared if you were gay. Ok, so every once in a while you would run across someone who was a bigot, and you called them a redneck and didn’t hang out with them. But racist and bigots all seemed to be from the older generations, not ours. In a way it also feels like we have regressed.
Operation-FuturePuss@reddit
Social media led us down a path of greed, envy and ultimately, intolerance. The voices of fringe were given a worldwide megaphone. Combine that with constantly being bombarded with videos and posts of unrealistic lifestyles of wealth and/or perfection and you have a whole society that is comparing themselves constantly and feeling left behind. So we need someone to blame for being behind, for not having that mansion or BMW or private jet, etc…
OnionTruck@reddit
90s were peak humanity, IMO. Best time to be alive!
Electronic-Smile-457@reddit
I don't know if Black people or anyone in the LGBT community would agree. That's the catch about "the past".
MonitorOfChaos@reddit
I can’t agree with you. It just wasn’t as in your face. We might have hung out together, but it was all just beneath the surface. Otherwise, where did all this suddenly come from?
Anecdotal: I was the girl that dated a “black guy.” I had a good reputation, friendly and caring and was academically a solid student. Once I started dating him suddenly people wouldn’t have spit on me if I were on fire. The church told me I wasn’t to be unequally yoked. If that’s racism, I don’t know what is.
amilo111@reddit
I didn’t grow up in the US but maybe there was less vocal white victimhood? That seems to be a very prominent thing now. Then again, maybe not.
brociousferocious77@reddit
I live in Canada and racism is legitimately FAR more of an issue now than it was in the '90s.
In the U.S. however it mostly seems like the younger generations have been conditioned to see racism in everything.
I know that's going to be a controversial statement, but it is what it is.
Gourmeebar@reddit
From your white perspective I can understand you would think we had it all figured out. We absolutely did not. I’m from L.A. (Hawthorne). So not even there did we have that shit “figured out”. You and your friends who were black obviously didn’t have these conversations
ralphhinkley1@reddit
I don’t know what your life experience is but mine is this. Do not say the words “black or gay”. Why? Just treat people as people, like YOU say in your post. I judge people by their actions not their aesthetics.
General_Tso75@reddit
We didn’t have it figured out in Florida. We did have consequences figured out though. You couldn’t be a bigot anonymously on a computer back then. So, if you were going to be racist to someone there was a good chance you were going to catch a punch for it. That kept a lid on things.
YoureSooMoneyy@reddit
It’s very interesting to read all of these comments. I think the biggest factor, that no one has mentioned, is the fact that is the US has only 15% of Americans indentify as black and less than 10% are gay. So it’s utterly impossible for all of us to have diversely rich exposure to every walk of life, throughout our entire lives. I’ve never lived in a predominantly black community. I’ve only had a handful of black friends throughout my life. Why? Not because I wouldn’t or had an issue with them but because the opportunities were not flooding in. Having only 15% of the population it’s impossible to expect that.
I feel like this is a huge chunk of the issue that most people never address.
livephree@reddit
I complete agree with OP. I am so sick of hearing that our country is systemically racist. It’s not. But becuz people keep screaming that it is, over and over again, the sheep believe it. And non-white people begin to think “oh. I didn’t think America was racist. But I guess it must be becuz they keep telling me it is”
Holiday_Advantage378@reddit
I’m also a California kid that grew up in Altadena. I didn’t know it was a black neighborhood (white guy here) until the fires and people started talking about the history of the city.
We were friends with the kids that grew up on my middle class street and they were of all races except for Asian now that I think about it. We also had mixed race families on our street which was unique in the 70s/80s.
iwastherefordisco@reddit
I went to Allwhiteschool dot com and during the 70s and 80s. I had some Black friends and girlfriends. I also grew up with a Greek family on my block who became my best friends in the late 60s/early 70s. Had a few gay friends in high school, one guy and a couple of girls. This would be in the 80s.
I can't speak to the 90s interpretation, but the examples I've listed above never had it easy. I was always a satellite person to the bigotry they experienced, being in 'the majority' of the time, so I'm not even sure I should speak about the issues they faced.
I think I will. I was too young to understand the racism my Greek friends faced; I thought they had a cool house and ate exotic foods compared to me. And they could speak two languages fluently. None of my other friends were able to do that.
One of my Black friends faced prejudices in everything from elementary school, to when we played community football, then high school football together. I was outraged at times, and he was the voice of reason having to go through that shit a million times before I came along. We won't talk about my Black girlfriends because that's when the racism involved me to smals degree and I was not polite to the assholes who figured we shouldn't be able to date who we like. I'm not a hero or a knight or perfect, I'm a person who likes other people. End of discussion.
To respond to the thread content there are more people and more migration in the world now, as compared to the 90s. That would indicate more races moving and mixing. However the things I witnessed in the 70s and 80s will never compare to the racism now. From my limited experience it was much worse back then. One of my gay friends contracted HIV and died of AIDS in the early 90s. His parents never told anyone the cause except family members. It was 2010 when I found out his actual cause of death and I was a friend.
One thing I'm a fan of is in the last decade we've all become more accountable for our views on equality and inclusion and diversity. Calling people out is more of a mainstream thing now and for that I'm thankful. I'm more white than a Norwegian eating a mayo sandwich in a snowstorm and the thing I hate most about racism is there's a lot of people with a face like mine who have treated people horribly for no reason. The only thing I can do is not become part of that and maybe ask what I can do to help those who are discriminated against. I faced such a small amount of discrimination in my life because of long hair, ripped clothes, pot smoker, how could he get those grades without cheating, will he steal my purse?... I can maybe understand about 1% of what true discrimination is.
OP it sounds like you experienced some calm waters in your life and friend group. Their personal experiences within may be different than you recall, I don't know. The 90s in LA were racially turbulent times and by association across American in places. I live in Canada and can only relate my experiences here.
joshp23@reddit
Over the last decade or so, I've had to come to terms with the fact that there was a LOT more bigotry going around in the '90s than I was aware of at the time, and my impression at the time was that I was aware of a good deal of it. The problem was that half of the people in my familial orbit were shamefully busy normalizing bigotry, and the other half were just shamefully busy covering it up preferring to pretend like it doesn't exist for appearance's sake.
The further away from that I got, the more clear the picture became... there was, and is, a lot of it to go around. Even though my friend group and our greater immediate scene were generally diverse, equitable, welcoming, and anti-bigotted, there was a LOT that I was taught to completely miss. So I did.
I suppose we all have blinders and condoned views of things. It takes work to overcome that.
Wuellig@reddit
The decade of Rodney King and "don't ask don't tell" was not when anybody had that all figured out.
Racism, sexism, and bigotry are like addiction, in that we're either actively using, or we're in lifelong recovery from the programming we got.
And make no mistake, it's programming. We've gotten it our whole lives. We can't help the programming we got, but we can do our very best, every day, to decolonize ourselves.
It's not worse now, it's that the privileged may have to hear more about it now, and that makes people uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable.
rilib2@reddit
I'm a 1970 kid and I'm so disappointed in our voting group that overwhelmingly supported the orange turd. Our group is more racist AND sexist that I hoped.
LaximumEffort@reddit
It was more pronounced in the south, actually I think the problem was so common that people just assumed it was OK to tell the jokes and exclude people without acknowledging them.
Avionix2023@reddit
I personally think a lot of the rage and division is kinda orchestrated.
CallMeSkii@reddit
I feel like Social Media and technology play a big part in all of this. Before Facebook and Twitter we all lived in our little bubble. I am a white guy that always got along with people from other races better than I did with other white people. I had plenty of white friends but my best friends were different races. A couple of my best friends are black guys. So for me racism wasn't a thing really.
Then Facebook and Twitter came along. All of a sudden I realized a pretty dark side from some of my white friends that I didn't know existed. People sharing stuff or posting stuff that genuinely upset me. My wife is Latina and it really bugged me that they would be sweet to her face but then post some nasty stuff about people who look and sound a lot like her. Then there are all the cellphone videos of what happens between the police and other races.
I realized we never really "solved" anything. Yes, more and more people accepted people from different races but racism still persists. The racists just did a better job of hiding themselves for a while. But social media has exposed many for what they are and I for one am grateful for that. I have removed certain people from my life and I am happier for it. They were always there, we just didn't realize it.
porkchopespresso@reddit
You don't mean it this way, but it can sound like that it was better when gay and black people didn't have a problem staying quiet with being marginalized. It's more angry now because that's no longer the case, and these days they do have white people on their side, at least some, as well as more marginalized people. It's a fight because it's not over.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
As a Bay Area native, no one had to stay quiet which is why I acknowledge that my view may be skewed. That is why I’m curious what the experience of others outside of here was.
Kritika1717@reddit
Bay Area here also. I think the difference with us is we were and are a melting pot. In California as a whole and especially here in the Bay. We were friends with everybody and it was not an issue. We were all very comfortable with each other and had each other over at each other’s houses, etc. But again, we can only talk about our experiences and it may not align with others.
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
And that’s why I’m throwing it out there regardless of the hate I know I will receive. I know that the Bay Area is a unique melting pot bubble and it’s one of the things I love about it. Reading these replies, I’m even more thankful now having grown up here.
Kritika1717@reddit
Very thankful!
9001@reddit
Hudson Bay?
Pinkbeans1@reddit
California bay are is a different cup of tea… & it covers a MASSIVE amount of space. I was born and raised there too, but I’m not white.
People in the Bay Area are a different type of crazy. Self important & think only they can save everyone or fix everything. Glad I left.
Kritika1717@reddit
San Francisco.
cholita7@reddit
San Francisco Bay area.
habu-sr71@reddit
San Francisco Bay Area. It's in California.
Temporary_Second3290@reddit
I think he meant California and possibly San Francisco Bay area.
throwpayrollaway@reddit
I think I know what you are saying. I was just saying to my daughter the other day that back then I just took it the the direction of travel would be towards less racism and and sexism and anti gay stuff in the early 90s. Like it stood to reason -it seemed we accepted people of different backgrounds a little better generally than people 25 years older, who in turn accepted people better than people 25 years older than them. That takes us back to people born around 1920s to 1930s.
porkchopespresso@reddit
I don't know how y'all got there, maybe it wasn't by being vocal, I don't know the history of the bay area in that respect. But how the rest of the country is catching up may not be by the same method because people aren't going to hold the door open for it. Some of those people are frequent posters on this sub. They're all of us. Even good intentioned people of unconscious bias. And there are still plenty of the not good intention types.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
And yet you're doing the same thing by putting groups into this "marginalized" bucket.
porkchopespresso@reddit
No, that's not how that works. Discrimination is marginalizing. Not hiring people because of their skin color or orientation is marginalizing. Not serving people at your place of business is marginalizing. Taking away a person's right to choose is marginalizing. Disproportionately being targeted by the law is marginalizing. Not renting to groups of people is marginalizing. Saying specific people are marginalized is not marginalizing. It's recognizing the problem.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
Oh well I'm so glad you explained to me how the world works. I had no idea until now.
By what you said, I guess that means that every one of us has been marginalized at some point in our life.
porkchopespresso@reddit
I'm not explaining how the world works. I'm explaining how you're wrong when you say
And yes of course we've all been marginalized at some point in our life. Some of us are just fortunate that it wasn't systemic and without action, permanent.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
I guess.
kittenpantzen@reddit
Baby's first brush with intersectionality.
MrsSchnitzelO@reddit
That's life.
beachwhistles@reddit
I feel the same
Writing_is_Bleeding@reddit
I once heard someone say that humanity peaked in the 90s and I think about that a lot.
You know what else happened in the 90s? The internet, which seems to be the jar, and we're all the ants in the jar, and somebody* has been shaking the crap out of that jar, or whatever.
*Nations that are the U.S.'s adversaries
tmhowzit@reddit
I'm not sure we had it "figured out" in the 90s, but I known what you mean. We were closer in time to the Civil Rights Movement of the 60s and all the cultural changes of the 70s. Then AIDS in the late 80s and 90s, which in some ways forced people to confront their homophobia. I think bigotry is never solved, it requires constant vigilance. We're in a time in this country now when the regressive politics on the right are allowing bigotry to go unchecked, so in that sense, it's very different from the 90s. Also as someone who grew up back east and lived in CA for 30 years, this state has always struck me as a little isolated. Maybe naive is the better word? I was shocked by how some Californians talked about Black people (for example) when I first moved here, as something totally removed from their reality. But I was also coming from a much more diverse part of the country.
RedGhostOrchid@reddit
Eh.
I wonder how your black and gay friends would view that time period. We white straight women seem to have huge blinders when it comes to the perspectives and experiences of those different from us.
I may have agreed with your take in 1997. In 2025? Not so much. It is interesting that you note that society went straight to hell in this post. What part of today's landscape as it relates to black and gay people "went straight to hell"?
SheriffBartholomew@reddit
You are not the only one. Identity politics has caused a ton of division, and seems to be aiming for quite a different outcome than the claimed objective. Our goals used to be color-blindness, and equality, whereas now the goal is to make race and orientation the foundation of ones identity, ever-present in every topic and conversation. It's destructive, not helpful.
JanieJones71@reddit
Luckily, growing up, my parents taught me compassion, colorblind, everyone has a rich history, and to not view anyone different than me.
Papa_Pesto@reddit
I thought this too until I spoke with my buddy whose black. The problem is they just didn't talk about it back then but racism was horrificly apparent to them. if you were white you just didn't experience it yourself so it wasn't obvious, but it absolutely existed.
MIKEPR1333@reddit
Maybe you're blind and the problems you mention existed back then.
TinktheChi@reddit
Very recently people have started putting others into boxes. We did not do that at any point and I don't like it.
neverinamillionyr@reddit
I think a big part of it was we didn’t have the internet. In our little worlds things seemed fine but in other places that you couldn’t see, not so much. The flip side of that coin is that the internet allows people to be assholes to others who are great distances away. One bad seed isn’t just a problem to his high school, he can broadcast his nonsense to a much larger audience.
PerformanceSmooth392@reddit
So did you miss the LA riots in the early 90s?
RhoOfFeh@reddit
I hear you. I grew up learning that discrimination is wrong, and now all I see is attempts to bring it back as the new hotness.
It's really disgusting.
ExternalLiterature76@reddit
Lesbian woman of color GenXer. Here's my experience growing up in the Bay Area and Mesa, AZ (PT w/ grandparents). In the 80s, people had no issue being out and out racist to my face. There was no way I could have come out being gay because I probably would have been tortured even more. I came out in the 90s and while people were pretty chill about my race, my queerness made them uncomfortable. The 2000s were actually really good for me up until the last 10 years. People are back to being comfortable being outwardly racist, homophobic and misogynist but not to me. From what I can tell it's based on class. Transgender people and immigrants of color are the new enemies. Poor women who live in red states are being denied medical treatment. I have so much empathy because I grew up in their shoes with people hating me because my skin was too brown.
zackks@reddit
I think the non-white/male/cis etc. would disagree that we had it figured out.
StillC5sdad@reddit
We didn't care what you looked like , where you lived, what you wore . If we weren't friends, we just didn't know each other. Other generations can call us what they want, but those are two words that miss the mark.
abelenkpe@reddit
We have definitely regressed. If our pundits or leaders openly expressed the bigoted trash they do now there would have been consequences.
r2killawat@reddit
Something about those obama years that just turned everything upside down 🤔
louisasnotes@reddit
That's what an Internet will do for you!
seriousname65@reddit
Agree. Not that we had solved all the world's -ism problems, but it seemed like were moving in the right direction. Naive, I guess.
txa1265@reddit
There is a reason why anecdotes and 'trust me bro' are not a replacement for actual data and facts.
bluudclut@reddit
It was always there. As working class people we just got on with our lives and had friends from all over the place. But I saw the racism up close with the Police. The area I was brought up was very mixed and probably slightly more black than white.
But if I was hanging about with friends and the Police turned up, which they would do. God forbid people can just hang about and have a laugh. If we had black friends with us. I bet you can't guess the first ones they went for?
ni-wom@reddit
Where I was from it was unusual for blacks and whites to hang out, apart from sports. We kept pretty separate, but all got along pretty well.
Boracraze@reddit
No. You are correct. Divisive politics, social media posts, and news stories generate clicks and engagement.
Not sure if it was the Covid lockdown, but people seem a helluva’ lot more angry and enraged about everything since 2020.
Robespierre77@reddit
You are sharing a thought I have had bouncing around in my head for a long time. Born in an area where desegregation had a major Impact….I could feel the tension as a small child almost two decades after the civil rights movement. Most of my friends as a child were black growing up, and it was easy to see we all came together because we were low Income. As I grew up, I made sure to treat everyone without prejudice as you described. And that love was reciprocated. And here we are, apparently traveling back in time to rehash all this old nastiness that I was sure would be tabled after 30 years. What in the world is going on? If you don’t realize external players have seized an opportunity to incite dim-witted, untravelled individuals using the bigotry so many uneducated Americans hold inside, then there is no hope to mend our country. Racism is wrong. Sexism is wrong. Truly listen to Jesus’ teachings and consider if that person you have animosity towards was YOU. See through the BS and love your fellow Americans while treating each other with respect. God help us….i just don’t think it’s going to happen until many people are hurt.
Fluffy-Match9676@reddit
I am going to have to disagree respectfully.
My black friends were also just "my friends." I had a lot of gay friends as well. We are not split into groups because we were mostly high-achieving kids trying to get a good education.
But there was racism happening to my friends. I had a friend who was told to "Go back to Africa." I remember hearing this and saying (as the naive child I was) "But you aren't from Africa."
The racist jokes I and others told because that was the norm I still cringe at. The gay jokes - ugh. It was ignorance and I have learned since then and am still learning.
This was the 70s/80s.
The 90s wasn't much better. I remember the discussions over affirmative action, welfare queens, don't say gay, and other things. Hell, a woman drowned her kids in her car and then said it was a black man.
Apocalypstick1@reddit
Imo we were seeing things improve the way they do in the real world: gradually, understandably gradually isn’t great for people who are still seeing active bigotry directed towards them, and because we reached a point where the tables turned enough that people were comfortable calling it out A LOT oof people started calking it out, then calling everything out, then calling out things that maybe weren’t as black and white as they were trying to make them, and a huge group of people didn’t like that one bit and now we’re seeing outsized pushback, especially since a lot of actors (I have opinions on whether they’re bad or good bit that’s not the topic so I won’t insert them) saw this as an opportunity to further their political/business careers combine that with the internet and we seem to be divided in a way we never have before. I say seem to be because people are much more kind in real life than online, but I don’t believe it will stay that way at the rate we’re going.
nadiaco@reddit
not where I lived. we had race fights when Black kids were bussed in, I hung with queer kids and they were very afraid of being beaten or killed and were constantly mocked in school in front of teachers.
EccentricTiger@reddit
I grew up in Detroit suburbs where I feel we were better than most about ignoring skin color. My mother is Bi. I don't remember the 90's being a great time of acceptance and love.
That said, I also think social media can have a way of amplifying the issues/concerns/hatred that you're exposed to.
So... my completely unscientific opinion is that you may be remembering the 90's as better than they were and be thinking the 2020's are worse than they are.
ghostofstankenstien@reddit
Trumpy made it okay to say the quiet parts out loud.
It was always there. Simmering. Obama's election lit the fuse for them.
MiyagiJunior@reddit
I agree with you. I've had some friends who I never even stopped to think about their ethnicity until I was in my early 30s. It just never occurred to me - they were just my friends. Then in my 30s I thought, wait, what actually are they? I never knew! It was a more naive world. Things have certainly regressed.
ieatsilicagel@reddit
Tell me you are white without telling me you are white. lol
Kirby_The_Dog@reddit
I think that changed around the Occupy Wall Street movement. The elites couldn't have us uniting against them, so they pushed the racism / bigotry in political speech, news, social media, etc. to keep us fighting amongst ourselves rather than united against them. Google 'chart showing use of word racism in new papers" and check out what happened right around the time of the Occupy Wall Street movement.
YoureSooMoneyy@reddit
It’s gotten exponentially worse. I agree. People who were young in late 50s (our parents ages really) are seeing it all come full circle but much worse. Of course there are differences, some reasons and fingers to point about a decade or two ago… but I agree with you without giving detailed opinions of my own. It’s much worse. It’s incredibly disheartening.
PlentyIndividual3168@reddit
We had it so figured out we elected a half black president. Then the powers that be lost their collective shit and blew it all to hell. We've never recovered.
IllustriousEast4854@reddit
Republicans happened. Nixon ran using the southern strategy of stoking the flames of racism. It got him elected twice. It worked for Reagan and Bush.
Republicans saw that they were losing elections because their programs and policies were unpopular.
There was a discussion among the leaders of the Republican party about trying to expand the party's appeal to a broader group of people. That idea was shot down.
The decision was made to bet the future of the party on racism, religious bigotry, and 5he politics of hate and division.
It's worked well for them.
7thAndGreenhill@reddit
We're certainly more polarized now. But racism and discrimination, especially against the LGBTQIA community was significantly worse.
Philadelphia (the movie) came out in 1993 and was a proper reflection of how the world viewed homosexual men.
I grew up in an affluent, liberal town. My hometown had a transgendered pediatrician. She transitioned to female in 1997. The entire town and medical industry turned on her. She lost her medical license, job, and her family, which stuck by her, was also ostracized.
There may have been some places that were more tolerant and accepting. But I believe they were the exception.
SirSignificant6576@reddit
It's because this cultural conflict has always been inevitable. It just hadn't ramped up to the point that it has now. It has always been there, seething under the surface. Southern towns and their good ol' boy politics, divided neighborhoods, etc. We grew up in a time after the Civil Rights era, when we could still remember those battles. These kids don't remember shit about Emmit Till, KKK rallies, and the like. The cancer has been quietly growing for decades, and now that it's really bad, I honestly don't see it abating without widespread conflict. How's that for a sunny prediction?
CheesyRomantic@reddit
Race wasn’t really an issue in my high school. But interracial or interfaith romances sometimes raised some eyebrows. Not everyone cared, but some did.
I do remember people being homophobic.
Like… I had a friend tell me I was disgusting because I said I really don’t have any issues with people being gay or whatever…
It was mixed.
But oddly enough. I did get teased for not being Italian enough 🤷🏻♀️
millersixteenth@reddit
We are being stage managed vis identity politics because both major parties exist to sell influence in the legislative process to the highest bidders. They don't have anything more substantive to pitch, and few of us can afford to purchase representation.
The more real identity politics become, the less we will address class divide.
MopingAppraiser@reddit
Agreed
BlindManuel@reddit
Society has regressed. I still see Friends, don't care about ethnicity, sexual preference. Hell, I talk to the Homeless if they're friendly. Being friendly is a lost to today's society IMHO. Today it's about MY Opinion, it's about ME.
brandondash@reddit
It seemed better then because there was no spotlight on it. Now there are floodlights illuminating every corner of everyone's' lives, so everything seems terrible. Truth is it was always terrible only now we can see it.
DJErikD@reddit
I grew up the same colorblind way, but don’t forget that Tom Metzger and the White Aryan Resistance / Klan were prevalent in So Cal. There were shades of American History X if you looked around. I lost a few impressionable friends to that bullshit. Mexicans didn’t have it as bad as black people, but it wasn’t some utopia.
Whatisthisnonsense22@reddit
Nah.. you may have treated them colorblind, but they didn't get to live that way. Gay folks had it the same way.
I went to school with a kid who was really, really outwardly showing gay if you spent 30 seconds paying attention. He had a girlfriend for three years, just to have a cover story. When he finally came out after graduation, it was a total non-event because everyone who gave a care for him knew.
The difference you are trying to talk about is that it wasn't screamed into everyone's face's every day by every corner of media and the internet.
White people could laugh at George Jefferson because it was funny. Now you couldn't without being accused of appropriation of black culture. The show didn't stop being funny. Peoplee with agendas have to make it about them.
LotteTakesNoShit@reddit
Are you serious?!?! I grew up queer in a world where all my queer elders who could've helped me manage it were dying of a virus that the president of the united states wouldn't even acknowledge existed until 20,000 people had died and we were six years into it. Not to mention trickle down economics are WHY those of us who got to buy houses were the lucky ones and the generations younger than us are getting fucked. You must've lived a life of glorious privilege.
RCA2CE@reddit
My high school was not like this, it was racially hostile. We were raised prejudiced. However when I left home that changed, I joined the military and traveled and yes race did not seem like it was an issue. Then all of a sudden it was again. I also remember rolling my eyes at the people who would evangelize against reverse discrimination- but now it’s an actual thing and I just want us all to be equals
SpicyDisaster1996@reddit
I'm using a different view. I agree with what a lot of people are saying. But I think that location plays a huge part in this. Myself and my husband both grew up in small farming communities. Small towns. At one point in the 90's we had cross burning in front lawns. Myself and a couple other friends who are gay were bullied to the point one almost left the Earth. Ten miles up the road in larger town it was completely the opposite. There are three towns that are all with in a five mile radius that are all extremely tolerant compared to the little town I grew up in. And we do not live in the south.
IndividualSkill3432@reddit
Two things can be true at the same time. There was a lot more racism and bigotry around. The people who were against it were far more about not seeing differences between each other than the current trend for hyping the differences and seeing "oppression" everywhere. Its become far more performative.
aWanderingPiano@reddit
The colorblindness of the 80s and 90s was the way. I said what I said.
inscrutiana@reddit
I think we have a coastal bias at a minimum, as there are a bunch of things which I was pretty sure we'd figured out by the early 90's. You might also consider that a single lifetime isn't enough time to see that this wiggle line chart is basically headed in the right direction, globally.
Please also recognize that we are becoming the elders are the voice of reason and wisdom. Keep speaking up and being a PITA about what matters to you. What, really, do you have to lose?
NeverEnoughGalbi@reddit
I had a white dorm mate get mad about something and then suggest everybody "tell Black jokes" to make her feel better.
centuryeyes@reddit
In the 90’s we didn’t have propaganda on steroids and in our pockets 24/7 (smartphones, social media etc.) fed by companies whose main goal is to keep us fighting (aka engagement) for profit.
Wheres_Jay@reddit
Some friends and I were just saying this last weekend.
IronAnchor1@reddit
I've had that feeling as well, like we were closer to getting it figured out then. There was still social mores and so on, but we certainly had a more open arms policy in general. 9/11 shifted things in new directions. Changed the way we thought about some things. It wasn't the cause of all this, but certainly contributed.
SoyFresa24-7@reddit
Yes we have regressed, same with women's rights, and sex education and reproductive health. Not to mention workers rights. I grew up valuing and knowing the strength of being in a union or buying union made goods.
ZuesMyGoose@reddit
Those rose colored glasses of nostalgia work for every generation. I know how I FELT in the 90s, and that didn’t reflect the reality of the 90s. As an adult,
Kritika1717@reddit
Spot on! 🎯💯
Jolly_Security_4771@reddit
I grew up in the rural Midwest, and racism and homophobia were ever present. Even if it was "good natured," it was still not a safe place for anyone who wasn't straight and white. I'm not sure it is now, honestly.
Firm-Analysis6666@reddit
I feel this 100%.
0_IceQueen_0@reddit
I'm ABC originally from Whittier. Racism was strong back in the day. As for being gay? No way.
Apprehensive_Bit4726@reddit
Racism is taught/learned.
End of discussion.
StopSignsAreRed@reddit
Naaah. I grew up in “the most integrated town in America,” as they liked to call it back then. Grew up with people of all backgrounds. The tensions were as real in the 80s, the 90s as they are today.
I just think the racists and bigots have a bigger platform now and no longer feel like they have to keep it under wraps.
Enough_Jellyfish5700@reddit
I can see how it seemed calmer and less problematic for white and light-skinned people. I’m mixed black and white (white passing) and I remember it was an easy time to work and go to school and just be with a group of people with no one talking about racial issues.
People were talking about racial issues when you went to the groups of black people, though. That’s where I faced the pressures about making choices to live in black communities to help them, or leave and help myself. That’s when nicknames of Oreo and Doublestuff were often used. It’s in black communities where we knew about police brutality before the Rodney King beating, whose broadcast brought about rioting.
Yeah it was easier before. Many people pine for times when different races were completely separated due to how nice it was in their lives. It’s a difficult topic, though because of the pain of the outcasts.
I don’t jump on people or call people racist for preferring comfort or not knowing everything. The US keeps trying to work out our differences. We haven’t found a way, but we try in many ways.
The past 10 years flipped the script on who was most uncomfortable; that too failed.
TheFirst10000@reddit
No, I think it still sucked, but it was still socially acceptable to sweep it under the carpet, 'cause if you weren't doing badly personally, how bad could it really be? Every generation tries to do better than the ones before, but none of us gets it completely right.
twirlingmypubes@reddit
It is way worse now. Even in the Southern podunk town I grew up in, things were way better. The biggest issue we thought we had was some imaginary race war initiated by gangs. There was tension, but I think it was guilt by the previous generations causing paranoia. Other than an occasional side-eye or off- color remark directed toward me (I'm white but hung out with "kickers" and "heads", so there was a heavy stereotype against me), we all got along very well.
I really believe that the powers that be are stirring the pot for politics and to protect the elite.
keyboardbill@reddit
You're simply describing the out of sight out of mind phenomenon.
RPGDesignatedPaladin@reddit
You lived in a lovely bubble.
Survive1014@reddit
I feel like things were getting better and then Obama got in and we also had a Black Female VP and now all the sudden we are dealing with racist dipshit white nationalist fuckwits again because they can't stand it.
Soggy-Programmer-545@reddit
I think I know what you mean. We as a generation (personally) had stopped being racist, sexist, homophobic, and all the other isms but somehow, somewhere, something went wrong with the next few generations or the generations before us did not. I agree with you.
Nina1701@reddit
The division is intentional and comes directly from billionaires who wish to keep themselves rich and in power.
When we fight each other the police state wins - D|K
dangerous_skirt65@reddit
I think it only seemed that way to you because you're not a member of any of those groups.
West-Bet-9639@reddit
I totally agree. It used to be that if you were an asshole, you were hated and kind of "on your own", but apparently we elect those people as president now.
Error262_USRnotfound@reddit
I also grew up in CA and the school i went to was 22% white and my neighborhood was probably less than that, so friends were just friends, so i do understand what you are saying, but the overall view and direction of other parts of the country i can not say...i do know that there have been times (in the 2000s) that me and my partner (who is not white) have travelled the country and she has not been always as welcomed in certain establishments as i was, in Butte Montana once we were even sat in a closed off section of a restaurant away from other people...from my point of view it was strange as hell...but such is life unfortunately.
With all that said being GenX makes me love/hate all of you equally :)
Flimsy_Word7242@reddit
Systemic racism and sexism existed in the 90s. Just because you and your pals weren’t shitty to each other doesn’t mean they weren’t living a completely different life than you.
HorrorQuantity3807@reddit
Social media, dude. As far as I’m concerned social media is killing society. I went to a rural school very much primarily white. We knew who all the black kids were in school but no one ever harassed them. We were all fine. Every once in a while something would happen but generally it was from kid absolutely no one liked to begin with.
We accepted our differences and kind of lived in a harmony, cordial, and had kinship in sports and other activities. It was cool. I thought we could all take a joke and laugh at ourselves. Feels like we can’t an anymore and it’s making life worse.
French_Toast_Runner@reddit
Hi! Queer person from the east coast here and that is not how I remember the 90s at all. You are very lucky to have grown up where you did.
moeshiboe@reddit
I grew up inner city & went to public schools with integration by bus. Racism really wasn’t a thing. Sure, we had armed security and metal detectors but racism, not really. Graduated HS 1993.
WillowLantana@reddit
We lived in very different parts of the country with very different ideologies. In my own home, I grew up with parents with polar opposite opinions about all the “isms and “ologies”. I can’t agree with your statement based on where I lived & saw but am glad you had a different experience.
handsoapdispenser@reddit
In my high school in the 90s, being gay may as well have been a death sentence. I knew a few and they kept it 100% under wraps. Thankfully the bullies were too dense to notice. Racism was not as active but also my town was 98% white and I believe that was by design.
TheUknownPoster@reddit
I am not bashing, but I have a moment of clarity for you "You didn’t even think about it" I bet a dollar to doughnuts your "black friends" thought about it all the time. You are describing "Privilege". you didn't have to be racist to live in a racist society. For you there was no downside to it. I "F-ing" guarantee there was for the black friends you did have.
Maccadawg@reddit
Are you sure your black and gay friends felt the same way that you did and that they were treated harmoniously in society?
Full_Mission7183@reddit
You understand your privledge in even being able to type that right?
Rodney King was in Cali AND that was 1992.
Matthew Sheppard was 1998.
About the only difference between now and then, I figure, is the amplification of voices from social media.
MonoBlancoATX@reddit
If you only think about racism in individual terms, you might have a point.
But if you think we had institutional forms of racism "figured out" in the 90s, then boy howdy do I have a bridge to sell you.
Also, I grew up in So Cal and we definitely did not interact the way you're describing, so many your experience is the exception rather than the norm?
Sufficient_Space8484@reddit (OP)
Definitely not talking about having institutionalized racism figured out. I’m talking about everyone getting along without our differences defining us.
MonoBlancoATX@reddit
Yeah. I don’t think that’s ever happened on a large scale the way you seem to think.
ancientastronaut2@reddit
I grew up in so cal and relate to what Op is saying, while at the same time admit I didn't know a lot about institutional racism at that time.
RattledMind@reddit
Keep it civil.