Well, it happened. I failed a check ride twice (LIFT Academy)
Posted by CollegeDropout0220@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 111 comments
As the title says, i found out my luck ran out. Today i failed my commercial check ride for the second time. The first failure was because i went 4 knots over speed on an emergency descent while doing my check ride in an Airmet Tango (my school would not allow me to cancel or discontinue without paying fees i cannot afford) and this failure was because i came in slightly too fast on my Power-Off 180 and bounced once out of tolerances. Because i go to a 141 school (I don’t care about hiding it anymore, i’m a LIFT Academy student) i now go to flight-ops review where they will decide my fate. Nobody has ever not been kicked out over failing the same Check ride twice. The DPE told me to keep going because 2 check ride failures will not disqualify me from airlines or even charter airlines, but i feel like it will significantly hinder my ability to ever work in this field now, plus LIFT’s policies and contracts now require me to pay the $15K “discount” they give you on tuition. I had expressed many times that i was not ready for this check ride and needed more training, and my training record shows that. Regardless, the pilot-mill did not care and sent me anyways. Now i have to find a job to cover the debt i have and maybe someday return to flying, but i have no idea if thats even possible now. Let this be a cautionary tale to all student pilots and aspiring student pilots: STAY AWAY FROM PART 141 PILOT MILLS, ESPECIALLY ONES WITH INSANELY LOW GRADUATION RATES!!! They do not care about producing good pilots, only quick pilots.
santacruz6789@reddit
You get kicked out? For something you’re paying for?
ResearcherAdorable51@reddit
Yeah, I know a good amount abt LIFT. They have an EOC that you have to pass before getting signed of check ride initially. The exam is with an instructor other than your primary. Ideally if you pass the EOC you’re ready for check ride but check ride wait times can allow you to be less proficient while waiting. If you fail 3 ratings total your out or the same rating twice your out. Lift is a direct line into republic so I kind of get it but otherwise its annoying
santacruz6789@reddit
Ah that makes sense. Still odd they would turn away your business though just because you wouldn’t qualify for the in with Republic…
blackdesertnewb@reddit
Wdym turn away? You sign a contract with them, you’re on the hook for the money whether you pass or not. They’re not turning away business.
santacruz6789@reddit
I assumed when OP stated kicked out I assumed the school, not the program.
shadowalker125@reddit
Lift is a flight school to fill republic right seats. Since republic won't hire over 2 checkride failures, then Lift dosent care to keep training.
GoAroundTOGA@reddit
LIFT looks at it as providing highly-discounted flight training for your commitment to Republic. It’s definitely not a customer-first school, they see names and numbers, nothing else.
Not saying it’s right, but they make it pretty clear when you sign up.
herkguy@reddit
I don’t have the PTS standards in front of me but I doubt you failed for being 4 kias fast…you sound like a quibbler from your post tbh. Worst kind of the students…
Due-Argument9928@reddit
The upper tolerance is +0. You can be a bit slower than target speed, but not faster. Just like on a short field landing you cannot land even 1 foot short.
oranges1cle@reddit
Sorry it's been a couple years, what's the upper tolerance on emergency descents? The upper tolerance should be Vne, right? Or Vno if there's turbulence? If his +4kts made him bust Vne, that's one thing. But I don't remember there being some arbitrary "upper tolerance" airspeed for emergency descents, like 120 or something.
GreenFlyer90@reddit
On the Da42 I'm pretty sure it was VNE or possibly vne-5. I remember my examiner telling me he was happy with 140 for the sake of his ears
oranges1cle@reddit
Same. Idk what airplane OP was flying but my guess is now that he extended flaps and/or gear and exceeded the flap speed by 4kts.
21MPH21@reddit
That was my first thought too. 4kts fast makes no sense. I'm guessing there's more to it or 4 was a typo and it he was meant 14.
H4ppenSt4nce@reddit
These stories almost always are thinly veiled excuses. The auto throttle on my jet is plus or minus ten…sometimes 15. The callouts on a CAT III are -5 +10.
nineyourefine@reddit
I don't know anything about LIFT but I've been in this industry for almost 20yrs and taught for years. I've never heard of anyone busting a ride for "4 kts fast". That's a ridiculous tolerance in a light single. Definitely more to the story, especially when you fail the same ride twice for separate things.
CaptainReginaldLong@reddit
Sometimes DPE's will fail you on a technicality if they see enough stuff they don't like. But usually those things would be debriefed after the flight? But the same DPE to fail you twice? For 4kts?! That's...something else has gotta be going on.
Fried__Soap@reddit
I know it sucks man, I haven’t flown in a while because I can’t afford to keep going right now. It eats me alive all the time. But it’s okay to have to take a stepping stone in life. I’m pursuing my A&P right now so I can afford to follow my dream. Working long hours sucks but knowing that every dollar is helping you fly again makes you feel better.
KrabbyPattyCereal@reddit
No bro, fuck the $15,000 that’s on them to collect it.
I’m going to give you advice that sounds aggressive, however it’s meant to snap you back into gear.
You’re at the literal end of commercial, go to a part 61, tell them where you’re at, pay the 5-10 hours or whatever they want to sign you off, and find the DPE that 1) accepts your pink slip of already completed tasks from your previous checkride and 2) has a reputation of being a human, rather than a reg monster.
Once you pass commercial, get some passes under your belt. Find out from your peers who should teach you CFI/CFII and who you should take the checkride with. This DPE might be a different person than who did your commercial. At this point, you need to heavily strategize your passes. The good news is if you are a good student and can teach alright, you could get CFI done in less than 10 hours, and CFII done in less than 5.
It’s not the end of the road for you yet. Get out of this resignation rut, go knock out the checkride that you know you’ve earned, and keep going.
Take_the_Bridge@reddit
This is the way
MrBoobSlap@reddit
There are other good flight schools in the Indianapolis area. I went to Jeffair out of KHFY, you might give them a try since it sounds like LIFT is going to let you go. Jeffair was a lot cheaper than LIFT when I went through, and they have both 61 and 141 programs.
Best of luck to you. As others have already said, this is hardly the end of your pilot career.
Ok_Truck_5092@reddit
In my opinion, unless your ass is at an airline-paid training center where you are being paid to perform on the company’s time, don’t ever let someone YOU are paying “force” you into a checkride you’re not ready for.
It is YOUR balls / lady balls on the line. Extra fees or timing setback be damned. You are in control. Go somewhere else.
SnooShortcuts6495@reddit
i appreciate the lady balls comment ❤️
Ok_Truck_5092@reddit
I have them too lol felt like it was funnier than ovaries
MichaelOfShannon@reddit
Yeah maybe stay away from “pilot mills” but you can’t put every 141 in that boat. 141 are meant to produce the best pilots believe it or not, they are held to a higher standard, maybe that’s why they don’t work for everyone and why they probably won’t keep you after you failed the same ride twice.
Curious-Owl6098@reddit
I’m confused how they are held to a higher standard? Doesn’t everyone take the same check ride for the same ratings at the end of the day?
National-Teaching658@reddit
Internally they are held to a higher standard. Lessons are tougher and more is expected of you in a shorter amount of time. Yes all pilots are held to the same standard during their checkrides and that’s the point of the ACS.
Upset-Isopod-2579@reddit
You’ll be ok bud just keep going and do your best to not get any more failures. After your first regional job you can look at it as a fresh start as long as you have no further failures.
cmmurf@reddit
Document everything. Before you lose access, download copies of all contracts, training materials, and your records.
$15k is a lot of money to be rewarding them with. They seem incentivized to encourage failures in order to increase their fees (by eliminating discounts).
Find Satan's lawyer. Don't get angry. Grab a stick and jam it into their pee hole! (Metaphorically of course.)
0621Hertz@reddit
Republic makes no sense! Like Chewbacca wanting to live on Endor!
PILOT9000@reddit
Sounds cool and edgy, but lawyer is going to cost more than $15k and more than likely he’s going to have to pay the $15k to Republic in the end anyway.
GoAroundTOGA@reddit
I can assure you Republic has Satan’s lawyer on retainer. The contract is pretty air-tight.
DearKick@reddit
I went to lift before I left for a unicorn 91 gig.
First I’ll say that it depends what campus you’re at what happens. I went to Galveston and I know several people who failed twice and continued on the program, now the kind of person that fails twice is a liability to fail again (thus having 3 failures which is a no-go for republic) so the school really doubled down on them that they need to lock in.
For KIND I know they can be a lot stricter, Robert Haines is notorious for this (not to name and shame). What you can do is one of two approaches
1: “I believe I can do this, and I understand continuing in the program brings great risk that I could fail a third time costing me more money. I however believe that this wont happen, as my eyes have been opened by this experience and I learned from it and shall take extra care in the future” or something like that
2: “I understand that I may be removed from the program. I do however want to at least complete my current rating. I would like to be retrained and complete my checkride even if I will be separated from Lift upon its conclusion.”
CFIIs you can reach out to that know how to game the system a little KIND: David Armstrong, Mason Roy, Ben Acra KMYR: good luck KBAK: Sean Springs Tuskegee: Christian Hardaway KGLS: DM me
fallingfaster345@reddit
No offense but you probably should have privately messaged this info to the OP. I know it seems harmless but I know that I wouldn’t want former students posting my name all over Reddit, good, bad or otherwise. You did a whole lot of name dropping here and didn’t seem to consider if it might make one of those people uncomfortable. Just a suggestion.. I recognize you were trying to be helpful but consider deleting your comment and just sending a PM.
DearKick@reddit
I will edit the CFIIs he should talk to out of it but will leave the corporate people in it. Thats very public information and we need to normalize transparency in flight schools.
National-Teaching658@reddit
Good idea. Don’t want any of the homies to get pulled in by the chiefs.
BWEJ@reddit
This is a pretty reductive representation of Robert Haines. He’s a very forgiving guy and the only thing I’ve ever seen out of him is a desire to see students succeed.
DearKick@reddit
He is during multi-MEI but seems to be less lenient on failures at CAX and below. Bear in mind being from an outlying campus we may have different experiences. I never unsat anything so this is also from 3rd party experiences.
OP ultimately needs to do whatever will allow him to get CAX if not continue for all ratings.
anairlineCSA@reddit
It sounds like you’re a walking defense mechanism. That’s the first thing you should fix. You’re telling me you joined, saw the fees, then thought you were going to clean sweep every checkride, and didn’t have contingency funds lined up? And if you didn’t know about the fees before joining, that’s 10000000% on you.
Based on what you busted on, being 4 knots fast on an emergency descent is something even a well prepared student could have done by accident. Also, look at the ACS, it’s +0/-10. Give yourself some buffer. Especially since you knew the airmet tango was in effect.
Not a single time did you take accountability. All I’m seeing is “my school”, “the weather”, “my training”. Sometimes it can be the case that you lost focus on something you’ve done right many times, or did something you know your CFI has explained a million times but for some reason, you just didn’t do.
chriscicc@reddit
If you failed your check ride twice after LIFT signed you off as ready, that's on them as much as it's on you. I would ask yourself, do you felt you were truly prepared? If so, why didn't you perform? If not, why did you push forward?
IREQUIREPROOF@reddit
He clearly stated he wasn’t ready and the school forced him to take the checkride when he wanted more time..
chriscicc@reddit
Glossed over that, thanks. If I'm OP, I wouldn't give them another dime. Find another school to finish your training.
EHP42@reddit
That's not the problem OP is having. They will want the $15k discount they gave him back because he's not finishing the program through them, and OP can't afford that.
chriscicc@reddit
"I wouldn't give them another dime" includes refunds. Make them sue if they think they have a case, contracts are a two way street.
EHP42@reddit
LIFT is associated with Republic, which is famously litigious, especially around their contracts. That pathway will be a huge uphill battle.
I wish OP luck.
shadowalker125@reddit
I know this sucks, but LIFT is owned by republic, and republic won't hire you if you have over 2 checkride failures. That's why they unanimously kick out students who fail twice. LIFT is recruiting pipeline disguised as a flight school, and they won't think twice about kicking out underperforming students.
azaviator2@reddit
Wrong. My Buddy is a captain and on the hiring team at Republic. Stop spreading misinformation
SuperCrye@reddit
I personally know an FO at republic with a triple commercial failure and I know a JetBlue captain with at least 3 primary failures.
azaviator2@reddit
Yup. I believe it. Whoever thinks 2 or more failures will ruin your career is mental
SuperCrye@reddit
I stopped reading up on this type of stuff on this subreddit, people love to tell you it’s all over
StrangeCow6712@reddit
If you can explain your failures than your fine, but if you say “idk DPE had it out for me” your probably not fine.
Queasy_Warthog_3697@reddit
What exactly is misinformation? The mandatory getting bounced if 2 failed check rides? Thanks!
hellozim@reddit
I was extended a CJO at republic in 2022 and I have 2 checkride failures. Stop spreading false information.
pilotbenny@reddit
I know someone at republic with more than 2 ride fails
Shark-Force@reddit
Whether or not someone is hired at republic with more than X checkride failures is entirely determined by the market. If republic needs more FOs quickly the standards drop. When they don’t need more FOs the standards raise.
Queasy_Warthog_3697@reddit
Great point
HotRecommendation283@reddit
Different times
Mattatbat96@reddit
I know a hell I know a guy at republic that legit failed every check ride at least 1 time if not 2 on some. Different hiring climate I guess but the career is far from over.
aftcg@reddit
Just go to a real flight school and forget about 141 pilot mills.
AmIaPilotYet@reddit
I am sorry to say this, but, I am yet to hear a good experience from a 141 school. Anyone I talk to, CFIs, DPEs, students, commonly say to stay away from 141 schools, primarily because, they seem to be structured to prioritize money over the student.
BWEJ@reddit
Here’s one. I went through a 141 without a check ride failure and I’m now 121. You get out of it what you put in.
21MPH21@reddit
Me too
Pilot Mill wasn't for everyone but it worked for me
CaptainReginaldLong@reddit
Mine was 61 but it was a mill and worked for me too.
Jester41K@reddit
Went to Salukidale. Between the flying, regular classes, sports atmosphere, and social aspect, it was an incredible experience. I imagine Auburn, Purdue, etc. grads would say the same thing.
swakid8@reddit
Hmm, Part 141 grad here who did IR, CSEL, CMEL, CFI under 141 and pretty much graduated with no issues except my first ever stage check there (Part 61 to 141 transition course as I did my PPL a 61 school). Used the same school to get my CFII and MEI under Part 61.
School was great, learned a lot, got my time, R-ATP qualifications, and carried on.
DinkleBottoms@reddit
Most people only really have things to say when they get bad training. I’ve heard more stories about people getting taken for a ride at part 61 schools than at a 141.
EliteEthos@reddit
It’s almost like people here recommend part 61 schools for a reason.
Capable-Gas4855@reddit
There are shitty 141s and shitty 61s I’ve been a student and instructed at both.
Not that I wouldn’t recommend 61 in most situations, but the hate boner this sub has for 141 schools is crazy.
baabobibobu@reddit
Honestly I go to the Canadian equivalent of 141 and the experience is pretty good. Biggest issue is aircraft availability can sometimes be a pain in the ass but it's very manageable, and they'll never push you past something you aren't ready for
747s@reddit
Agreed. I’ve trained and taught in both 61 and 141 environments and 141 does have its merit. The reduced minimums (especially for IR.. no need for 50 XC PIC) and structured training program are fantastic benefits. Anecdotally, my weakest students have consistently been people who trained in a 61 environment then came to my current facility to start their next ratings under 141.
Controversial take, but most of the complaints I’ve heard about 141 programs are from students who.. weren’t great and didn’t have solid study habits during their training. The vast majority of people that study and put the work in thrive in 141 environments. I know some schools are terrible, but some people need to take a look in the mirror.
Fantastic-Cheek-480@reddit
Couldn’t agree more; the key is finding the right school whether it’s 61 or 141. Too many students go into a school with little research and are surprised to find out the school is not good. Any school that makes you pay up front, is likely not a good school. I’m at a 141 that is great, you pay as you go, you schedule your flights through a scheduling app, no bullcrap fees, no penalty for cancellations due to weather, etc.
RegionalJet@reddit
People here also say to avoid ATP, which is a Part 61 school. A school being terrible has nothing to do with it being Part 61 or 141.
burnheartmusic@reddit
Ya but they pretend they are 141
swakid8@reddit
lol, there are crappy Part 61 schools too…
But what do I know? I only learned at both and taught at both….
Queasy_Warthog_3697@reddit
I recently got a conditional acceptance into their Part 61 license program. They tell me if I perform well during private, they will at that time forward a contract and I’ll switch over to their Part 141 program. It’s my understanding that all CFI certifications are paid for by Lift? Regardless, please do keep us posted. Good luck!!
0621Hertz@reddit
Confession: I have never checked for Airmet Tangos in my life.
IFR_Flyer@reddit
Right to jail
SwoopyStack@reddit
FAA already got a warrant for his arrest someone told me.
SpiritFlight404@reddit
Here’s another perspective:
As the PIC you chose to fly in airmet Turbulence knowing the standards for maneuvers. You chose to save the cost for rescheduling which I doubt was the same as losing the discount of 15k. You placed yourself into this situation from the start by choosing the school.
Sorry you were unsuccessful. But you need to learn to take responsibility.
Better-Radish-5757@reddit
That is the responsible version of the story.
nbd9000@reddit
said from the perspective of someone who has never had to worry about money. back in the day, 20+ years ago, youd get a call from the chief pilot saying "if you dont make it to kxxx tonight youre fired!" yeah, the union would get you your job back, eventually. but would you be able to lay your way until then? living on 1200$ a month? so we usually flew, despite the conditions.
in my opinion this is no different. OP wasnt allowed to choose his schedule- he was forced into it. saying he has a choice to fly or take a 15000$ hit is such a whimsical, carefree take like that wouldnt drastically impact your life at a point where you have zero income coming in and no prospects. theres no responsibility here. he was forced.
wxpilot7502@reddit
And this is why you report that shit to the FSDO. The FAA has taken a very aggressive stance recently at the HQ level about putting pilots into risky situations through external factors (PAVE, right?). So the OP should have declined in writing, and when the flight school penalized them, sent the permission and letter to the FSDO to put it on their radar.
Clear4TakeoffR19er@reddit
Agreed, people get caught up in personal accountability and responsibility since it’s incredibly important in aviation, only to weaponize it and make incredibly out of touch statements for the context.
Sailass@reddit
I'm sorry, but if a CFI signed you off and sent you for a checkride after you told them you did not believe you were ready, that CFI is an ass. If the school's policy forced the CFI to do it, that entire school is an ass.
I went part 61, so different world, but there's zero chance my CFI would have sent me for a ride if we didn't both agree that I was ready. His pass/fail rate and my logbook both want me to succeed.
ce402@reddit
During the recent push to lower ATP mins, Republic wanted to be able to lower their R-ATP mins to 750 like the military.
They claimed their training and standards were no different. Well, if you have hard gates and it’s up or out, I guess I see their point.
LIFT is a screening and recruiting tool. If you cannot meet their standards, they don’t want you. It’s cold, but I see their logic.
It sucks that so many young applicants get pulled in not realizing the stakes. Sure, everyone learns at a different pace, and some take longer than others to “get it.”
But they don’t want to hire those individuals. They want to hire the ones that “get it” quickly and can meet targets in a structured environment.
12-7@reddit
Asses upon asses
e140driver@reddit
Politically speaking, the CFI might not have had much of a choice in the matter. Lots of this comes down to management saying “thoushalt….” Welcome to 141.
capn_davey@reddit
College 141 is even better at bureaucracy and eliminating rational thought. There are pros and cons to pretty much everything, though. I did my private and instrument at my home FBO. Absolutely fantastic instructors and lots of learning by screwing up. Ground instruction was basically “here’s a Gleim book, let me know when you’re ready for your written.”
I went to a drinking school with a hockey problem and an aviation hobby for the rest of my training. The ground instruction was superb. The policies don’t let you get in trouble unless you try really hard. Instructors were luck of the draw and I made it awkward a couple times and asked for new ones because I wasn’t going to spend my money teaching myself while they watched the hobbs click closer to going to Pinnacle.
Like everything, there’s no perfect solution (unless you buy your own plane and hire your own instructor…worked for a manufacturer for a while and definitely saw that a few times). The advantage of the “puppy mill” approach is both in the (theoretically) higher quality ground instruction and hiring pipeline. I think some sort of structured training program or 4 year college should be mandatory for anyone to get an ATP purely so you can learn how to operate as part of a large organization.
Cropgun84@reddit
Who held a gun to your head and made you get in the airplane?
Doc1010@reddit
Who does the majority of the check rides down there, DPE-wise?
Opening_Judge_1528@reddit
any DPE that has availability in a 300 mile radius
14Three8@reddit
Chalk another one up to Lift. Billing you for discontinuing a checkride. Republic is still a bunch of bastards, so is their sham recruitment program of a flight school
Seacabbage@reddit
Man this is scary to read… I’m working on the flying portion of my IFR rating now and was strongly eyeing leaving my day job for Lift later this year
milfcannons@reddit
Don’t. I was danger close to going down the lift path. Stay part 61, time build and hit up accelerated courses with your PTO if you get any. I take 2 weeks a year to go bang out whatever I need to and schedule it out that way. The long nights of study after the kids go to sleep is rough, but it allows me to keep my day job. Just my advice, that school is really hit or miss and mostly miss from what I’ve gathered. I’ve seen some guys go through the whole process without a hitch though.
Seacabbage@reddit
Appreciate the advice… I’m fortunate enough to have been able to squirrel away the funds to go either pathway. In a flying club now that has CFII instruction available too. The “guaranteed” path to a jet if I go full send sure is appealing but reading these stories about lift make me question things
FunAbroad7432@reddit
If it helps any I have 2 checkride busts and a reckless driving charge on my juvenile record and still got into propel. Try not to loose hope. The upside is you failed on a different item, failing for the same thing twice looks worse and the power off 180 is super easy to explain . Look for other schools. If you do decide to continue to peruse a career in aviation (which I suggest), take accountability for both of the failures in your interviews. Don’t play the blame game (word gets around and interviewers already know the woes of the pilot mill).
Informal-Sentence217@reddit
Republic lifer ain’t so bad
Low-Yak6705@reddit
The most important thing about any flight school is the culture and policy.. i went to a part 141 school too and this would never happen there. YOU are PIC not the school or your instructor. If you aren’t ready or don’t feel safe taking a flight there should be no obligations. My school made us make “go, no go” decisions for every flight especially stage checks and check-rides. Failing a check-ride twice is essentially your school and instructors fault just as much as you. My advice would be to pull as much money out of them as you can and seek instruction els where. This happened to me before at “ATP” i left prior to taking the PPL checkride and joined another school, No regrets. There’s plenty of better schools around and two failures aren’t the end of the world.
Low-Yak6705@reddit
The most important thing about any flight school is the culture and policy.. i went to a part 141 school too and this would never happen there. YOU are PIC not the school or your instructor. If you aren’t ready or don’t feel safe taking a flight there should be no obligations. My school made us make “go, no go” decisions for every flight especially stage checks and check-rides. Failing a check-ride twice is essentially your school and instructors fault just as much as you. My advice would be to pull as much money out of them as you can and seek instruction els where. This happened to before at “ATP” i left prior to taking the PPL checkride and joined another school, No regrets. There’s plenty of better schools around and two failures aren’t the end of the world.
Grand-Jacket-8782@reddit
I went to a 141 school briefly, quit, went the 61 route, and only ONE of the many people I shared aviation classes with, is professionally flying.
Speaks for itself.
BoboTheLhasaDog@reddit
Someday you’ll re-read your original post and realize that your narrative blames everyone except YOU. Good luck.
Ok-Exchange-7891@reddit
Are you at Lift KIND?
nickstavros2@reddit
After I get my PPL, I’m going part 141 at ATP. The part 61 I’m at right now has four planes, and two of them are usually always in maintenance because they are “minimally” fixed and not fixed to the full extent, so they keep breaking and slots are always booked for the working planes. All maintained by one mechanic who is in his late 60’s (maybe even older)..
That’s why I’m going P141. More planes, better maintained, quicker rate to get CFI,II, ME and MEI etc. The part 61 I’m at is just not doable for my budget. I’m 23 turning 24 this year, trying to get the PPL over with so I can continue on.
I notice lots of people talk bad on part 141, but you have to be the right person for it. Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t have the time to continue at my school. It’s taking way too long. I was told last January (after solo long xc) that I should start prepping for my checkride, and it’s now February and I’m just now at the top of the list. Anyone else had an experience like this?
Reborn1217@reddit
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, however, I don’t think ATP is a 141. It’s part 61. There are better schools out there that do it much faster and much cheaper than ATP. Do your due diligence.
nickstavros2@reddit
Oh yeah that was mybad
freightdoge@reddit
Go to a different school. Regroup and lock in with a better DPE. You’ll be alright
BandicootNo4431@reddit
Ok so from.some.quick research I'm seeing that to get to AVP-203 which is the end of the CPL, is about $72k?
And you thought that was a discounted price?
People are doing their CPL-IR for 60k?
To get to 250 hours you probably need...
75 hours dual (30 hours dual PPL, 20 hours dual CPL, 25 hours dual IR) @ $75/hour for the instructor and $175 for the airplane: $18 750
175 hours solo @ 175: $30 625
3 x checkrides at $800 each: $2400
3 x writtens at $300 each: $900
And then a 10% contingency for "extra" training along the way.
All in that's $57,942.5
If you're smart and do your multi as part of building time towards 250 hours, that adds about another $2750 ($450 an hour instead of $175) which is right about $60k.
This doesn't take into account any efficiencies from time building with a partner where you both log PIC time with one under the hood which can cut down on costs quite a bit.
blknbrndog@reddit
What campus are you going to?
TheGeoninja@reddit
I know several ex-Lift pilots, a few that have been in a similar situation. I’m sorry to say that you are probably going to be separated from their program.
The key is to try and get back on the horse as soon as possible and get your commercial ride passed. If you are going to stay in Indiana, I think Sweet Aviation in Fort Wayne and I think there is a school near Louisville that both have Diamonds so you wouldn’t need to learn a new aircraft.
Longjumping_Proof_97@reddit
Take it again….after some training. Don’t give up
fallingfaster345@reddit
It sounds like you are giving up. If you have a flight ops review, go in there and advocate for yourself! Make your case. Prove to them why you deserve to stay. Seriously, don’t accept defeat. Don’t go down without a fight.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
As the title says, i found out my luck ran out. Today i failed my commercial check ride for the second time. The first failure was because i went 4 knots over speed on an emergency descent while doing my check ride in an Airmet Tango (my school would not allow me to cancel or discontinue without paying fees i cannot afford) and this failure was because i came in slightly too fast on my Power-Off 180 and bounced once out of tolerances. Because i go to a 141 school (I don’t care about hiding it anymore, i’m a LIFT Academy student) i now go to flight-ops review where they will decide my fate. Nobody has ever not been kicked out over failing the same Check ride twice. The DPE told me to keep going because 2 check ride failures will not disqualify me from airlines or even charter airlines, but i feel like it will significantly hinder my ability to ever work in this field now, plus LIFT’s policies and contracts now require me to pay the $15K “discount” they give you on tuition. I had expressed many times that i was not ready for this check ride and needed more training, and my training record shows that. Regardless, the pilot-mill did not care and sent me anyways. Now i have to find a job to cover the debt i have and maybe someday return to flying, but i have no idea if thats even possible now. Let this be a cautionary tale to all student pilots and aspiring student pilots: STAY AWAY FROM PART 141 PILOT MILLS, ESPECIALLY ONES WITH INSANELY LOW GRADUATION RATES!!! They do not care about producing good pilots, only quick pilots.
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