100% Mainland Greece, and 100% from Peloponnese since at least the Middle Ages; 50% Arvanitic and 50% from Arcadia (there we suspect an early medieval Slavic heritage).
There are still full Anatolians? Anecdotally, a ton of the people I know are part Anatolians, mostly living in Athens, but I don't think I know anyone who is fully Anatolian. Pretty much everyone intermarried.
In Thessaloniki, Kilkis, or, generally, in the Macedonia region, you can easily find families of totally Pontic or Anatolian heritage. Many villages or towns , were emptied after the Balkan wars and the Population Exchange and repopulated by Anatolian refugees, if not newly founded by the refugees.
He has been questioned about his intentions because he seems to have an agenda. He promised then to stay away from this sub but instead but instead he keeps returning with his alts
And I repeat, who tf are you again? Are you a friend of odd-guidance? Are you another alt? Your profile doesn't look very promising, why you care so much about Greece and Greeks?
I‘m not friends with him but i‘m still sorry for him since he got harassed so much.
Also what about this question do you find problematic lol.
I know his opinions about Greece (especially him overmentioning the slavic admixture in Mainland Greece) is fairly unpopular both among Greeks and basically most other people as well but still this question doesn‘t have anything to do with that.
Also i‘m mentioning everyone from Irish people to Pashtuns if you‘d check out my profile properly.
I expected from him to keep his promise, not to return with an alt.
I also don't like anyone who's asking for other people's background while refusing to give his own (you also fail to tell me who tf are you and where are you from). Odd-guidance is supposed to be from the USA, with Sicilian roots, or with Slavic and Arvanitic roots from Peloponnese (!) or from Portugal. Depends on his narrative I guess. For example he used to randomly choose photos of 10 people from a Greek region to push his agenda, that the people look Slavic if they're from the mainland and Arabic if they're from the islands. So don't tell me he doesn't have an agenda
What you're suggesting is mathematically impossible, regions like Florina or Edessa barely had any native Greek speakers until the 20th century, if all of them left cities in that region would be either entirely populated by recent settlers (not the case), or completely abandoned (not the case)....
There were Greek speakers in Florina and Edessa. There were Greek speakers in Bitola, Strumica and Plovdiv. I'm not saying they were the majority, but the were there. And Greek speakers were always the majority in Western Macedonia, including the countryside, even though the were more concentrated in cities and along the coast towards the East.
I never said there weren't Greeks in Western Macedonia as a whole, the natives of places such as Kozani or Grevena are indeed Greeks, i specifically mentioned Florina, a region that had basically no Greeks, if you know of any historically Greek villages in that area, feel free to share more information about them.
Even if we assume there was a Greek population living in Florina, it is very obvious they were not the majority of the population, I don't know if you have ever been there, but most people clearly have recent non-Greek speaking ancestors in that part of Greece, unless you go to say Kilkis, a place full of Pontians.
I know Florina, the city that had quite a few Greek speakers. as, again, did Bitola and Strumica. Not being the majority doesn't mean they didn't exist.
"Austrian diplomat Johann Georg von Hahn visited the city in 1861 and wrote about it in his travel log From Belgrade to Salonica. In it he writes that "about the houses in Florina, we should indicate that there are at most 3,000, with half of the population Albanian and Turkish Muslims and the other half Christian Bulgarians." According to an 1878 French ethnographic book Florina was a town of 1,500 households, inhabited by 2,800 Muslims and 1,800 Bulgarians"
Την αλήθεια λέει αμόρφωτε. Δύο λεπτά θέλει να πας στην Βικιπαίδεια που έχει πολλές μαρτυρίες και στατιστικά για τον πλυθησμό τους προηγούμενους αιώνες. Σα δε ντρέπεσαι να βρίζεις ξένους.
about the houses in Florina, we should indicate that there are at most 3,000, with half of the population Albanian and Turkish Muslims and the other half Christian Bulgarians."
Το ποστάρω μέσα απο σένα γιατι ο u/AntiKouk πεταξε την κοτσάνα του κ με μπλοκαρε γιατι δεν του αρέσει ο διαλογος.
...το 1861 οταν ήταν ΥΠΟ κατοχή των οθωμανών,οι οποιοι μετακοινούσαν μεγαλούς πληθυσμούς οταν ήθελαν να επιβάλουν πολιτική.....αμόρφωτε!
κ τι σχέση έχει ο πλυθυσμός του 19ος αιωνα πριν τους Βαλκανικούς,Α'ΠΠ-Β'ΠΠ??
Ολο αυτο το διαστημα εγιναν ανταλαγες πλυθυσμών κτλ.
Επίσης υπήρχαν πολλές πολείς της Βουλγαριας-Σκοπια-Τουρκια που η πλεοψηφία ήταν Ελληνες τον 19ο αιωνα αλλά ψάντεψε τι μας κάνανε διώξεις,δολοφονίες αλλαγή εθνικότητας κ θρησκείας.Σαν Ελλάδα τα εχουμε αφήσει πίσω κ σαν χώρα κ σαν πολίτες, δεν τα προπαγανδίζουμε στο sub.
Επίσης το μποτάκι έγραψε κ αποκάλεσε του Ελληνες κατοίκους της Δυτ.Μακεδονίας εποίκους.
μήπως θεωρείς κ εσύ αν ένας πατρινός ή αγρινιώτης πάει να ζήσει στην Φλώρινα ότι είναι έποικος??
Εσυ δεν ντρεπεσαι να προβοκάρεις την χώρα σου για χάρη του ξένου εθνικισμού??
Hmm if only there was a group mentioned there that spoke a Slavic tongue and lived within the modern borders of greek Macedonia...
In case you're not being sarcastic, Slavic speakers from modern northern Greece and North Macedonia were considered as Bulgarians by most at the time, including the Greek government
You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink as the English say.
All the original sources are freely accessible and they all point to the same reality. If you want to do mental gymnastics to deny them I can't stop you.
Well it has to be more than 200 years then, since my great great grandfather was a greek speaking orthodox christian as an Ottoman citizen, alongisde his entire village. They lived for generations near the Greco-Bulgarian border.
Well tbf to the Redditor above north Greece used to be very mixed depending on the area. Western Macedonia for example did have a lot of Slavic speakers. But yeah not sure how many of them just left and how many actually assimilated. One of the reasons it's the most empty Greek territory, along with the population exchange and then the civil war.
Sure thing, but they're trying to present it as a standard rule. But when I say that Bitola had a Greek population which was assimilated by Yugoslavia, I'm being turned down as some sort of propagandist
That's unfortunate, you'd expect that they'd know better than most that Balkan populations were mixed. All you can do is not fall to the same level, can't reverse stubbornness with stubborness
There are people in Greece who were forcibly converted into Greek during Metaxas.
This is widely known, Greece went through a military dictatorship, coupe and a civil war all in the span of <60 years, so the current Greeks have nothing to do with this, but these people still do exist.
Today's narrative is that we "converted" (lmao) Slavs into Greeks. Tomorrow it will be that we kicked them all out. What's ironic is that this comes from people who claim to be native Macedonians (aka Greeks) who were slavicized
You should stick to one of these scenarios, you can't have it both ways
You can kick out people by converting them, some will convert, others will leave, which is exactly what happened.
As you are laughing about the fate of the Slavs in that area and deportation of people (but it's really a bad thing when it happened to you in Cyprus right?), you probably don't have the mental capacity to process this, but unless you do, here is a good source: https://pasithee.library.upatras.gr/kampos/article/download/4931/4749
I'm laughing about the term you used,"conversion".
What happened to the Greeks in Bitola? You're constantly bitching about your people but you're not able to answer to this question. They can't have just disappeared
They weren't converted (well there are some followers of the Greek Orthodox Church so I am not sure) but they were expelled in both Bitola and Gevgeli.
But there is one difference. We partially control this territory since 1945 and fully since 1991, the Greeks left during the Balkan Wars, when Serbia controlled the territory.
The Serbian authority suppressed Greek schools and language on the exact same way, not us.
I see! It was the bad Serbs again. It's ironic how the Slavic Macedonians too use the Serbs as a scapegoat for everything bad that happens in the Balkans. I hope they'll.see your comment
Oh about those Slavs in northern Greece? It wasn't us, it was the Serbs! They kicked them out when they ruled the territory during the Serbian empire! /s
Not really, the Serbs did some bad things here, but most of it is pre-WW2 and the Serbs acknowledge this which is why we have good relations with them, after that period we also blame the Bulgarians for WW2 and then no one else because nothing really significant happened after 1945.
That's the neat thing about being a new small identity, we don't have any dirt on our hands.
That's the neat thing about being a new small identity, we don't have any dirt on our hands.
That's true because you're indeed a new identity. Someone's posted a source here where an Austrian diplomat who travelled in Florina in 1866 found out that there were Albanians, Turks and Bulgarians living there. No Slavic Macedonians. What happened to these Bulgarians? Did you "convert" them into Slavic Macedonians? 🤔
Did you read the source I sent you? These are Greek sources I am sending you, not a random Austro-Hungarian guy who was trailing around a few villages.
The Greek state clearly defined Bulgarians as separate and considered Greeks as "Greek-speaking" and "Slav-speaking".
Why would they be marked as "Greek" and "Slav-speaking" and not just "Bulgarian"?
Брат, ignore them, they are ignorant mainlanders. Western Macedonian people are actually very understanding of the topic and usually have a slav speaking ancestry background. There's people who have family there, and vice versa some of you have family here.
Unless they pick up a book, from the several local ones that exist out there, or sit on a tavern with our older local population, they'll remain ignorant.
Guys, I am in Western Macedonia and I do confirm that this is true. A lot of people that are over the age of 50 years old are bilingual, and speak a language they call "local", εντόπικα, and it's slavic, similar to what they speak in Bitola/Μοναστήρι.
It might be hard to digest the reality, and if you are not living in Western Macedonia or know anybody from here you shouldn't have an opinion on this. There are a lot of books about it and you are free to read it, without being biased.
Here's a local report from Florina that explains the situation, however avoids to get into the aggressive details: https://neaflorina.gr/2021/10/florina-i-polyglossi/
During the Metaxas gov. in the late 1930s the Slavs (mostly Macedonians and Bulgarians) were forced to speak Greek, their names and surnames were changed to Greek. People who did not like this left, but others (who both identified as Greek and Slav) decided to stay and adapt.
This isn't something that happened thousands of years ago for us to discuss whether it happened or not, it happened 90 years ago and the Greek state denied it until 1994.
While the number of people who identify as Macedonians/Slavs today in Greece is rather low (<10K probably), the number of Greeks who are of Slavic origin is quite high.
Well it lacks minorities in general unfortunately due to Reddit survey limitations. But I guess they'd fall under mainland in this, unless they don't identify as Greek
It's not that many generations. The genocide and population exchange took place a hundred years ago. Others left even later. Also you don't trace descendance from aunts. If you share the same ancestors that would make her Anatolian, you trace your ancestry to them.
But again it isn't that long ago. The youngest generation that can read, write and use the internet currently has great-grandparents who were Anatolian. It doesn't really go further than that. For many it's just their parents, and many of the even original refugees are still alive (especially the ones from Istanbul).
City of Volos on my father's side, a village on mount Pelion on my mothers side, although my paternal side were originally Greeks from Melnik in Bulgaria.
Half anatolian pontic Greek/ half Thracian Bulgarian here.
However, for the anatolian side, it's difficult to tell our ancestry after the population exchange, most of the documents were lost, and we don't know much about our great great parents. So, there's a small possibility that they were something else. (Assyrian, Russian, etc)
You realize that "mainland Greek", "anatolian Greek" and "islander Greek" are just geographic terms and do not prove anything about culture or identity, right?
Yes of course, when I was in Crete it felt like I was in a different country on the other side of the world! No, not the world, it felt like i was in Mars! Cretans looked like aliens!
My father's side used to live for at least 200 years near the Greco-Bulgarian border in a Greek village.
My mother's side hailed from Eastern Thrace near modern Tekirdag (Rodosto-Ραιδεστός). They don't have records as my father's side has, due to them being persecuted in 1914 by the Turks for committing the crime of not being Turks, but according to their claims they lived there for many centuries. I have an ancestor who was a candle merchant employed by the Ottoman High Porte for some time (or permanently really who can say).
CalydonianBoar@reddit
100% Mainland Greece, and 100% from Peloponnese since at least the Middle Ages; 50% Arvanitic and 50% from Arcadia (there we suspect an early medieval Slavic heritage).
usernamisntimportant@reddit
There are still full Anatolians? Anecdotally, a ton of the people I know are part Anatolians, mostly living in Athens, but I don't think I know anyone who is fully Anatolian. Pretty much everyone intermarried.
CalydonianBoar@reddit
In Thessaloniki, Kilkis, or, generally, in the Macedonia region, you can easily find families of totally Pontic or Anatolian heritage. Many villages or towns , were emptied after the Balkan wars and the Population Exchange and repopulated by Anatolian refugees, if not newly founded by the refugees.
Kalypso_95@reddit
Why are you asking? And what's your background odd-guidance?
h1ns_new@reddit
don‘t mention his identity
Kalypso_95@reddit
Excuse me but who tf are you?
h1ns_new@reddit
Well he has been harassed in the past for sharing opinions some deem to be controversial for a long time
Kalypso_95@reddit
He has been questioned about his intentions because he seems to have an agenda. He promised then to stay away from this sub but instead but instead he keeps returning with his alts
And I repeat, who tf are you again? Are you a friend of odd-guidance? Are you another alt? Your profile doesn't look very promising, why you care so much about Greece and Greeks?
h1ns_new@reddit
I‘m not friends with him but i‘m still sorry for him since he got harassed so much.
Also what about this question do you find problematic lol.
I know his opinions about Greece (especially him overmentioning the slavic admixture in Mainland Greece) is fairly unpopular both among Greeks and basically most other people as well but still this question doesn‘t have anything to do with that.
Also i‘m mentioning everyone from Irish people to Pashtuns if you‘d check out my profile properly.
Kalypso_95@reddit
I expected from him to keep his promise, not to return with an alt.
I also don't like anyone who's asking for other people's background while refusing to give his own (you also fail to tell me who tf are you and where are you from). Odd-guidance is supposed to be from the USA, with Sicilian roots, or with Slavic and Arvanitic roots from Peloponnese (!) or from Portugal. Depends on his narrative I guess. For example he used to randomly choose photos of 10 people from a Greek region to push his agenda, that the people look Slavic if they're from the mainland and Arabic if they're from the islands. So don't tell me he doesn't have an agenda
markohf12@reddit
You are missing the "Hellenized Slavs" group who mostly live in the north.
Iapetus404@reddit
There is no such thing....!
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
What you're suggesting is mathematically impossible, regions like Florina or Edessa barely had any native Greek speakers until the 20th century, if all of them left cities in that region would be either entirely populated by recent settlers (not the case), or completely abandoned (not the case)....
usernamisntimportant@reddit
There were Greek speakers in Florina and Edessa. There were Greek speakers in Bitola, Strumica and Plovdiv. I'm not saying they were the majority, but the were there. And Greek speakers were always the majority in Western Macedonia, including the countryside, even though the were more concentrated in cities and along the coast towards the East.
ZhiveBeIarus@reddit
I never said there weren't Greeks in Western Macedonia as a whole, the natives of places such as Kozani or Grevena are indeed Greeks, i specifically mentioned Florina, a region that had basically no Greeks, if you know of any historically Greek villages in that area, feel free to share more information about them.
Even if we assume there was a Greek population living in Florina, it is very obvious they were not the majority of the population, I don't know if you have ever been there, but most people clearly have recent non-Greek speaking ancestors in that part of Greece, unless you go to say Kilkis, a place full of Pontians.
usernamisntimportant@reddit
I know Florina, the city that had quite a few Greek speakers. as, again, did Bitola and Strumica. Not being the majority doesn't mean they didn't exist.
Iapetus404@reddit
Stop spread misinformation!
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
I'd suggest studying English before calling objectively correct statements "misinformation".
Iapetus404@reddit
ρε αντε κ γαμήσου μαλάκα!
κομπλέ?
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Δεν ειπα κάποιο ψέμα, "stop spread misinformation" δεν βγάζει απολύτως κανένα νόημα, τραβα μαθε πρωτα Αγγλικα και μετα ξαναμιλάμε.
Iapetus404@reddit
Εγώ δεν ειμαι μποτάκι να δουλευω για τούρκους κ σκοπιανούς σαν κ σένα βρωμιάρη για να χρειαζομαι καλύτερα αγγλικά!
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Μποτακια δεν ξερω αν είσαι, 12χρονο παντως εισαι σιγουρα.
Iapetus404@reddit
οτι φράγκα σε πληρώνουν,στους γιατρούς να τα φας σκοπιανέ φασίστα!
AntiKouk@reddit
"Austrian diplomat Johann Georg von Hahn visited the city in 1861 and wrote about it in his travel log From Belgrade to Salonica. In it he writes that "about the houses in Florina, we should indicate that there are at most 3,000, with half of the population Albanian and Turkish Muslims and the other half Christian Bulgarians." According to an 1878 French ethnographic book Florina was a town of 1,500 households, inhabited by 2,800 Muslims and 1,800 Bulgarians"
Την αλήθεια λέει αμόρφωτε. Δύο λεπτά θέλει να πας στην Βικιπαίδεια που έχει πολλές μαρτυρίες και στατιστικά για τον πλυθησμό τους προηγούμενους αιώνες. Σα δε ντρέπεσαι να βρίζεις ξένους.
Kalypso_95@reddit
Interesting. SlavIc Macedonians aren't mentioned 🤔
Iapetus404@reddit
Το ποστάρω μέσα απο σένα γιατι ο u/AntiKouk πεταξε την κοτσάνα του κ με μπλοκαρε γιατι δεν του αρέσει ο διαλογος.
...το 1861 οταν ήταν ΥΠΟ κατοχή των οθωμανών,οι οποιοι μετακοινούσαν μεγαλούς πληθυσμούς οταν ήθελαν να επιβάλουν πολιτική.....αμόρφωτε!
κ τι σχέση έχει ο πλυθυσμός του 19ος αιωνα πριν τους Βαλκανικούς,Α'ΠΠ-Β'ΠΠ??
Ολο αυτο το διαστημα εγιναν ανταλαγες πλυθυσμών κτλ.
Επίσης υπήρχαν πολλές πολείς της Βουλγαριας-Σκοπια-Τουρκια που η πλεοψηφία ήταν Ελληνες τον 19ο αιωνα αλλά ψάντεψε τι μας κάνανε διώξεις,δολοφονίες αλλαγή εθνικότητας κ θρησκείας.Σαν Ελλάδα τα εχουμε αφήσει πίσω κ σαν χώρα κ σαν πολίτες, δεν τα προπαγανδίζουμε στο sub.
Επίσης το μποτάκι έγραψε κ αποκάλεσε του Ελληνες κατοίκους της Δυτ.Μακεδονίας εποίκους.
μήπως θεωρείς κ εσύ αν ένας πατρινός ή αγρινιώτης πάει να ζήσει στην Φλώρινα ότι είναι έποικος??
Εσυ δεν ντρεπεσαι να προβοκάρεις την χώρα σου για χάρη του ξένου εθνικισμού??
Kalypso_95@reddit
Νομίζω δεν μπορεί να το δει το σχόλιο σου αν σε έκανε μπλοκ οπότε τζάμπα κόπος
AntiKouk@reddit
Εφόσον μπορώ να το δω φαντάζομαι ότι το διέγραψαν οι moderators
AntiKouk@reddit
Hmm if only there was a group mentioned there that spoke a Slavic tongue and lived within the modern borders of greek Macedonia...
In case you're not being sarcastic, Slavic speakers from modern northern Greece and North Macedonia were considered as Bulgarians by most at the time, including the Greek government
Kalypso_95@reddit
So the source isn't reliable?
AntiKouk@reddit
You can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink as the English say.
All the original sources are freely accessible and they all point to the same reality. If you want to do mental gymnastics to deny them I can't stop you.
markohf12@reddit
Do you really think we are that rich?
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Και εσυ σε πουτανες, γτ λογικα δεν εχεις δει μουνι ουτε στον ύπνο σου.
Iapetus404@reddit
καψερό ανθρωπάκι αχαχαχαχα
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Αν εννοείς τον εαυτό σου συμφωνώ απόλυτα.
Iapetus404@reddit
ρε βλακάκο αντε τράβα καμια παχια να ξελαμπικάρεις κ μετά δες τι μλκς γράφεις τόση ώρα!
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Εγω δεν γράφω καμια μαλακια, εσυ από την άλλη εισαι και αμόρφωτος οποτε τι να περιμένω.
Chewmass@reddit
Well it has to be more than 200 years then, since my great great grandfather was a greek speaking orthodox christian as an Ottoman citizen, alongisde his entire village. They lived for generations near the Greco-Bulgarian border.
But yeah, I suppose we're Hellenized Slavs.
AntiKouk@reddit
Well tbf to the Redditor above north Greece used to be very mixed depending on the area. Western Macedonia for example did have a lot of Slavic speakers. But yeah not sure how many of them just left and how many actually assimilated. One of the reasons it's the most empty Greek territory, along with the population exchange and then the civil war.
Chewmass@reddit
Sure thing, but they're trying to present it as a standard rule. But when I say that Bitola had a Greek population which was assimilated by Yugoslavia, I'm being turned down as some sort of propagandist
AntiKouk@reddit
That's unfortunate, you'd expect that they'd know better than most that Balkan populations were mixed. All you can do is not fall to the same level, can't reverse stubbornness with stubborness
Cassaner@reddit
a linguistic distinction not a geographic one but somehow North "Macedonians" have to blame Greeks.
markohf12@reddit
There are people in Greece who were forcibly converted into Greek during Metaxas.
This is widely known, Greece went through a military dictatorship, coupe and a civil war all in the span of <60 years, so the current Greeks have nothing to do with this, but these people still do exist.
Kalypso_95@reddit
Today's narrative is that we "converted" (lmao) Slavs into Greeks. Tomorrow it will be that we kicked them all out. What's ironic is that this comes from people who claim to be native Macedonians (aka Greeks) who were slavicized
You should stick to one of these scenarios, you can't have it both ways
markohf12@reddit
You can kick out people by converting them, some will convert, others will leave, which is exactly what happened.
As you are laughing about the fate of the Slavs in that area and deportation of people (but it's really a bad thing when it happened to you in Cyprus right?), you probably don't have the mental capacity to process this, but unless you do, here is a good source: https://pasithee.library.upatras.gr/kampos/article/download/4931/4749
Kalypso_95@reddit
I'm laughing about the term you used,"conversion".
What happened to the Greeks in Bitola? You're constantly bitching about your people but you're not able to answer to this question. They can't have just disappeared
markohf12@reddit
They weren't converted (well there are some followers of the Greek Orthodox Church so I am not sure) but they were expelled in both Bitola and Gevgeli.
But there is one difference. We partially control this territory since 1945 and fully since 1991, the Greeks left during the Balkan Wars, when Serbia controlled the territory.
The Serbian authority suppressed Greek schools and language on the exact same way, not us.
Kalypso_95@reddit
I see! It was the bad Serbs again. It's ironic how the Slavic Macedonians too use the Serbs as a scapegoat for everything bad that happens in the Balkans. I hope they'll.see your comment
Oh about those Slavs in northern Greece? It wasn't us, it was the Serbs! They kicked them out when they ruled the territory during the Serbian empire! /s
markohf12@reddit
Not really, the Serbs did some bad things here, but most of it is pre-WW2 and the Serbs acknowledge this which is why we have good relations with them, after that period we also blame the Bulgarians for WW2 and then no one else because nothing really significant happened after 1945.
That's the neat thing about being a new small identity, we don't have any dirt on our hands.
Kalypso_95@reddit
That's true because you're indeed a new identity. Someone's posted a source here where an Austrian diplomat who travelled in Florina in 1866 found out that there were Albanians, Turks and Bulgarians living there. No Slavic Macedonians. What happened to these Bulgarians? Did you "convert" them into Slavic Macedonians? 🤔
markohf12@reddit
Did you read the source I sent you? These are Greek sources I am sending you, not a random Austro-Hungarian guy who was trailing around a few villages.
The Greek state clearly defined Bulgarians as separate and considered Greeks as "Greek-speaking" and "Slav-speaking".
Why would they be marked as "Greek" and "Slav-speaking" and not just "Bulgarian"?
Kalypso_95@reddit
It says 1912, the "random Austro-Hungarian" guy as you call him was "trailing around these villages" in 1861
You don't think that the Greek state would have an agenda, right? Do you honestly believe that it's more reliable than our random Austrian diplomat?
markohf12@reddit
They do have an agenda, to convert the people. That's the only reason why they are written like that.
Kalypso_95@reddit
So the Austrian guy who talks about Bulgarians only is more trustworthy, we agree on that 👍
markohf12@reddit
No, on the opposite, why would the Greek state randomly pick 70,000 people? Unless they weren't so random?
Several_Advantage130@reddit
Брат, ignore them, they are ignorant mainlanders. Western Macedonian people are actually very understanding of the topic and usually have a slav speaking ancestry background. There's people who have family there, and vice versa some of you have family here.
Unless they pick up a book, from the several local ones that exist out there, or sit on a tavern with our older local population, they'll remain ignorant.
Several_Advantage130@reddit
Guys, I am in Western Macedonia and I do confirm that this is true. A lot of people that are over the age of 50 years old are bilingual, and speak a language they call "local", εντόπικα, and it's slavic, similar to what they speak in Bitola/Μοναστήρι.
It might be hard to digest the reality, and if you are not living in Western Macedonia or know anybody from here you shouldn't have an opinion on this. There are a lot of books about it and you are free to read it, without being biased.
Here's a local report from Florina that explains the situation, however avoids to get into the aggressive details: https://neaflorina.gr/2021/10/florina-i-polyglossi/
Iapetus404@reddit
Those Slavs who remained in Greece after balkan and WW1 wars, fled after the civil war 1949 they fought with the communists against Greece.
RegionSignificant977@reddit
That's small part of them. The bulk left before that, around the times of the Balkan Wars and WWI including my great grandfather family.
usernamisntimportant@reddit
That's mainland Greek.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
How do you define a "Hellenized Slav"?
Iapetus404@reddit
like they define Alexander the great as Slav.
100 years pan-slavic and communist propaganda make them brainwashed zombies!!!
markohf12@reddit
Ehh, what? I am fairly certain nobody ever said that.
Iapetus404@reddit
And then the statues of Alexander and phillip what is?
Before 2018 everything(airports,public buildings,roads) you named Alexander and phillip.
which is for Greeks you came to tell us about your country's fake propaganda!
markohf12@reddit
Nobody said "Alexander the Great was Slav", that's what I am trying to tell you.
There are people here that claim that they are the direct descendants of Alexander the Great.
Some of these people were are the gov. when those statues were enacted.
I don't agree with them and many people don't.
markohf12@reddit
During the Metaxas gov. in the late 1930s the Slavs (mostly Macedonians and Bulgarians) were forced to speak Greek, their names and surnames were changed to Greek. People who did not like this left, but others (who both identified as Greek and Slav) decided to stay and adapt.
This isn't something that happened thousands of years ago for us to discuss whether it happened or not, it happened 90 years ago and the Greek state denied it until 1994.
https://pasithee.library.upatras.gr/kampos/article/download/4931/4749.
While the number of people who identify as Macedonians/Slavs today in Greece is rather low (<10K probably), the number of Greeks who are of Slavic origin is quite high.
Suitable-Decision-26@reddit
He is missing nothing unfortunately, most of those "slavs" were either wiped out or emigrated to a country east of Macedonia.
Celestial_Presence@reddit
And with the Bulgaria-Greece population exchange. Around 100,000 Bulgarians went to Bulgaria.
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately there are not enough choices. In this poll they go with mainland Greeks.
AntiKouk@reddit
Well it lacks minorities in general unfortunately due to Reddit survey limitations. But I guess they'd fall under mainland in this, unless they don't identify as Greek
VirnaDrakou@reddit
Mainlander + islander but mainlander is from a coastal area 🙂↔️ Mediterranean to the core
Daggla@reddit
Mainland, but coastal.
GerryBanana@reddit
I wonder how many people can actually trace their ancestry back to Anatolia or whether they count a random forgotten aunt.
TheBr33ze@reddit
Nearly all of my great grandparents except two, were from Anatolia, specifically Pontus and Smyrna.
rizlapluss@reddit
you do realize it's like 3 generations away.
for example, i met my great-grandmother (born 1914) that was born in the mountains in the depths of Asia.
usernamisntimportant@reddit
It's not that many generations. The genocide and population exchange took place a hundred years ago. Others left even later. Also you don't trace descendance from aunts. If you share the same ancestors that would make her Anatolian, you trace your ancestry to them.
But again it isn't that long ago. The youngest generation that can read, write and use the internet currently has great-grandparents who were Anatolian. It doesn't really go further than that. For many it's just their parents, and many of the even original refugees are still alive (especially the ones from Istanbul).
BamBumKiofte23@reddit
I use a selfie I took with my son, tbh.
YpogaTouArGrease@reddit
Mainland Greece,though my background is Arvanitic
TheOneWhoDidntCum@reddit
Which part originally? Peloponessos or Attica?
YpogaTouArGrease@reddit
Peloponessos,Argolida
TheOneWhoDidntCum@reddit
👍
FloorStock9368@reddit
City of Volos on my father's side, a village on mount Pelion on my mothers side, although my paternal side were originally Greeks from Melnik in Bulgaria.
CypriotGreek@reddit
Cretan and Cypriot islander. The most insufferable combination of Greeks in the whole of Greece.
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Cyprus isn't part of Greece.
CypriotGreek@reddit
Yeah no shit but I live in Greece and my point still stands.
Lotofagos_@reddit
Islander on both sides of the family as far back as I can go. No connection to mainland Greece or Anatolia as far as I know.
Several_Advantage130@reddit
Half anatolian pontic Greek/ half Thracian Bulgarian here.
However, for the anatolian side, it's difficult to tell our ancestry after the population exchange, most of the documents were lost, and we don't know much about our great great parents. So, there's a small possibility that they were something else. (Assyrian, Russian, etc)
Celestial_Presence@reddit
Mixed mainland Greek + Greek islander.
What's up with the Anatolian votes? Are they overrepresented on Reddit?
AntiKouk@reddit
I'll admit should have been a mainland/anatolian and not a pure Anatolian, was a little confused as to the interpretations
FilipposTrains@reddit
You realize that "mainland Greek", "anatolian Greek" and "islander Greek" are just geographic terms and do not prove anything about culture or identity, right?
h1ns_new@reddit
No culturally Greeks have a different culture depending on the region
Kalypso_95@reddit
Yes of course, when I was in Crete it felt like I was in a different country on the other side of the world! No, not the world, it felt like i was in Mars! Cretans looked like aliens!
What are we reading 🤦♀️
h1ns_new@reddit
No one said it‘s completely alien to each other, but regardless there are regional differences in every country.
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit (OP)
Yes.
FilipposTrains@reddit
Then what is the point of this poll?
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit (OP)
Just wanted to see what group is prevalent here.
Cassaner@reddit
Greek mainlander is the majority of the population by far.
AntiKouk@reddit
Chat, where do I count eastern Thrace ancestry?
❌ Mainland Greece ❌ Asia minor ✅ Population: exchanged
Money_Island_84@reddit
I ticked Anatolian for better or worse.
h1ns_new@reddit
Mainland
RegionSignificant977@reddit
What part of Thrace?
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit (OP)
Unfortunately there are not enough choices. But i would count it as mainland Greece.
AntiKouk@reddit
Well time to create alt account to vote again
DoubleAxxme@reddit
I believe I’m fully mainland greek but I recently found out I might be related to a family from Constantinople so idk
Celestial_Presence@reddit
That's still technically "mainland" Greek.
DoubleAxxme@reddit
Well yeah technically it is but I though of mainland as modern day territory
FirmConcentrate2962@reddit
Hellenized Turks.
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
Turks are literally the only non-Greek NON-Hellenized group living in Greece
AntiKouk@reddit
Wrong sub
GSA_Gladiator@reddit
You missed to put thracian greek (Turkiye or Bulgaria) and also I'm surprised by the number of anatolian greeks
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
These borders are rather artificial, Mainland Greek will do.
low-sikeliot-9062@reddit (OP)
Thracian Greeks go with mainland Greeks here. Unfortunately reddit limits the amount of choices.
Ok_Shine1618@reddit
Thracian Greeks count as mainland Greeks here. I could not add more options due to reddit survey's limitations.
CabbageInMacedonia@reddit
First option.
Chewmass@reddit
My father's side used to live for at least 200 years near the Greco-Bulgarian border in a Greek village.
My mother's side hailed from Eastern Thrace near modern Tekirdag (Rodosto-Ραιδεστός). They don't have records as my father's side has, due to them being persecuted in 1914 by the Turks for committing the crime of not being Turks, but according to their claims they lived there for many centuries. I have an ancestor who was a candle merchant employed by the Ottoman High Porte for some time (or permanently really who can say).
hunichii@reddit
100% pitogyro
Narrow_Variety_8408@reddit
Fully malaka