FTC to ban GM from sharing connected vehicle data with consumer reporting agencies

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eggdropk@reddit

…for five years. Can officially kicked down the road.

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If it lasts a month. I’m sure it will be challenged in court as with everything the FTC does to help the average American (look at the CARS rule). Plus the new administration may just dismantle it anyways.

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RBeck@reddit

They'll claim the overturn of the Chevron deference will make this change require an act of congress, and keep this in court for years.

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

Currently getting ready to sell my 08 Infiniti in the next few months and just buy a 1st-gen Sequoia instead, I'm going to cling to my 90's and non-complicated 2000's cars until I die

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saturnuranusmars@reddit

Why even sell it? Just fix it and keep it until the wheels fall off at this point

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

This car does have some newer computer systems that are proprietary to the vehicle (think 2000's BMW iDrive) and you can't go aftermarket if they break - that's the only thing that kinda makes me nervous as this car starts getting closer to 20

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bushmonster43@reddit

and if it's anything like the Armada/QX56 of the era, wiring diagrams simply don't exist

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

Also when was the last time anyone ever saw a first-gen QX56 that wasn't clapped to shit lmao

I only see the 2011+ Armadas still running around because those had the transmission failure issue fixed on them

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bushmonster43@reddit

I used to have a 2010. QX56, they came stock on 20s that look about like what you're describing. everything below applies to armadas too

There were enough changes in the power distribution box and some other electrical bits in 2006 that a lot of the wiring changed, but the official diagrams did not. You could get around this if you also had a FSM for a Titan but, 2010 models like mine were more closely related to the 11+ and and didn't work

I also replaced four radiators and (after it was run out of coolant) a motor in the driveway over the course of a couple years. Between that and the cost of S chassis parts my opinions on Nissan aren't super high

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

I swear to fuck there's no wiring diagrams for any 2000's/2010's Nissan/Infiniti products at all, and even trying to find specific parts for my FX35 is becoming harder and harder given that the first-gens went out of production 17 years ago now

That's not even getting into how if the center screen/radio/climate control panel unit in my car fails, I either have to salvage an OEM one from a wrecking yard and get it coded by the dealer, or get some shitty "tesla-style" android chinesium screen from eBay that won't play nice with the factory Bose amp, not to mention I'd lose a few of the car's functions such as auto-off headlight timer and driver seat memory lol

Meanwhile I can still get fenders, headlights, wheels, brakes, rear hatch's, glass, pretty much anything I could ever want for a first-gen Sequoia even after all this time, same with 3rd-gen 4Runners

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stupidzoidberg@reddit

they all do it, welcome to the dystopian future where you own nothing and everyone owns you

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RBeck@reddit

Thankfully my Golf only has a 3G antenna and when the 3G spectrum went down, they lost the ability to track me. It was weird getting mail where they knew my exact mileage though.

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cilantno@reddit

I had been breaking into your house and check the odo while you slept, sorry bout that mate

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BannytheBoss@reddit

https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics/privacy/take-control-of-online-data-with-apps-a5151057853/

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ThatDamnFloatingEye@reddit

We are living in the future and future sucks.

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DaggumTarHeels@reddit

The new admin has filled the cabinet with people whose interests are directly opposed to helping the average American. So yeah, I don’t expect this to last.

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ElCaz@reddit

It's not unusual for a permanent ban of something to start as a short term one.

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frostysauce@reddit

They'll still be collecting all the data. Then in five years they have a trove of information to sell.

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cilantno@reddit

Until we have a government that truly wants to serve its people, we don’t get consumer protections.

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natesully33@reddit

Don't get me started, as a software engineer I want tech products to serve their users and feel like these sorts of business models just should not be allowed, or should be heavily restricted if they are.

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Jonathan358@reddit

Fked up that all their claims of protecting the american people with bans of tiktok, social media, online data is just being sold to the same companies... Glad that the FTC is fighting for this in the name of equality.

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bigbura@reddit

Need this written into law.

Take a gander at how we lumped along with Roe v. Wade and never sealed the deal.

If you mean it, set it into law. Otherwise you've left your pet project open for being messed with rather easily.

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Wasabaiiiii@reddit

maybe we should vote? surely that’ll stop the corrupt politicians from fucking us!

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bigbura@reddit

At this point we need to be much more like the French and Germans, out in the streets protesting all the BS going on.

From media/social media being bought out as a war tactic by the wealth hoarders, to Citizens United's massive attack on democracy, we are well past the 'talking about shit' stage. Time for action!

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LearnToolSwim@reddit

Ive been very concerned with this tech. Im afraid it will be used to void warranties and lead to automated tickets. So im glad they are stopping it for now

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EveryLuck@reddit

Now get out! You're banned from this historical society! You, and your children, and your children's children!...For three months.

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Weareallaroundgaming@reddit

It boggles my mind why anyone could even consider buying a GM vehicle. They’re like Mitsubishi, everytime I see one I’m like “I wonder how that happened”

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gumol@reddit

the Corvettes looks awesome.

btw https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/feb/08/toyota-cars-collecting-and-potentially-sharing-location-data-and-personal-information-choice-says

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

Corvette is the only one I'd consider buying from them

Buying GM is like buying Nissan or Stellantis, the only way you buy that crap is if you're either ignorant or desperate

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LA-ncevance@reddit

Says the guy in an infiniti. GM has made some of the best drivers cars recently. Corvette, Camaro, CT4V Blackwing, CT5V Blackwing, Escalade V and the ZR2 offroad trucks with DSSV suspension.

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

Forgot about the blackwing, but then again I feel like most people kinda forgot about it considering GM isn't marketing the car, same with the 2014 SS

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airfryerfuntime@reddit

Now do Toyota.

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graceparagonique2024@reddit

It will only get worse after Monday. Brush up on your Russian.

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p90rushb@reddit

Serious question, can anything be done to dumb-down these "smart" cars? Can I unplug modules and disconnect antennas and the car still works like a mid-00s car? Or does it nag you to "fix" the issues and put your car in limp mode?

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Sun_Aria@reddit

Depending on the model, it may take some dismantling of the dashboard to disable telemetry. There may some warranty issues in doing that but the car should still run normally. You may lose some infotainment functionality, but again it depends on the model.

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thecurlyburl@reddit

Yes find the GPS or communication module fuse and pull it. Will probably cause a check engine light though.

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MeIsMyName@reddit

Things that illuminate the check engine light are actually regulated by the EPA if I remember right. Your car can have a fault code stored, but unless it's something that is on the EPA list because it's either catastrophic or affects emissions, it won't turn on that particular light. That being said, there may be other types of warnings used for a fault like that. Sometimes it's part of a telematics module and then you'll get an error about telematics or emergency calling being unavailable.

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thecurlyburl@reddit

Yeah I’m sure there’s a plethora of minutia that I don’t know about but the point is the same

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AwesomeBantha@reddit

is there a single valid reason an antenna disconnect should trigger a check engine light?

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SenTedStevens@reddit

Because it likely messes up something in the CANBUS system.

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stupidzoidberg@reddit

Most new cars and especially electrics are now using ethernet, canbus is actually old tech

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thecurlyburl@reddit

Maybe the Germans but definitely not ford or gm

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withoutapaddle@reddit

Depends on the car and the age.

There is a "sweet spot" where these connected cars were still on 3G data, so since 3G is shut down, the car's ability to send ANY data out is already stopped as of a year or two ago.

I would put that sweet spot at around 2010-2018, depending on car, and for many the window is much narrower.

My car, for example, started using cellular data and a phone app around 2014, and the cars switche from 3G to 4G by 2018. My 2017 is now "off the grid". I got a letter in the mail from the manufacturer saying sorry my phone app wouldn't work anymore. I see it as a positive, since the app didn't have any features with value to me (just garbage like check your fuel gauge remotely).

Meanwhile, my newer car (2020) is on 4G, and while I do not like knowing how much data it has on me, I'm not willing to rip out fuses or wiring, because I kind of need the remote-start features that only exist through the phone app. Toddlers can't wear big puffy jackets in carseats for safety reasons, and I can't just put a 3-year-old in a -20°F car with minimal winter clothes while I'm bundled up in down parka like I'm going to explore the antarctic.

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BannytheBoss@reddit

As long as you do not have an app installed on your phone and connected to your car, what you stated is correct.

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withoutapaddle@reddit

Even if you have an app on your phone, your 3G car can't get the data up to the server anyway, unless it also has wifi and is parked close to your home router (AND you have allowed it on your home network).

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snakeproof@reddit

I do know for a fact you can unplug nearly everything in a canbus controlled Prius and it'll still work, as long as you leave the drive computers and brake controller the thing will start run and drive just with lots of warnings. I have a third of one crammed into an old Corvair.

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BannytheBoss@reddit

That's the nice thing about Toyota, they use a lot of separate computers versus some companies that use items such as the radio as a computer for certain functions.

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J_NonServiam@reddit

Depends on the car. There's a way to pull the starlink module in Subarus and have an inline resistor to suppress error messages. (Usually involves a semi custom cable splice, some companies make plug and play ones)

You lose the ability to update your infotainment software, however.

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aaayyyuuussshhh@reddit

Depends on the car but I'd assume the majority can. May need to do some extra modifications though

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saturnuranusmars@reddit

No there isn't

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LA-ncevance@reddit

They've stopped sharing already. Apparently they only made pennies per customer, and the PR damage of this was millions.

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thecurlyburl@reddit

Sounds about right for GM

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Drone30389@reddit

Anyway, you'd think the last thing GM would want to do is share data with consumer reporting agencies.

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thecurlyburl@reddit

They probably pitched it as a treasure trove and gold mine. Having worked there, they are definitely susceptible to “oooh shiny”

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LA-ncevance@reddit

Unfortunately, yes

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BannytheBoss@reddit

Yeah, right. There has been a lot of talk about the power grid not being able to handle all the EVs being built. The real concern for the power grid is all the data collection centers that are going up. Instead of 10's of kWh per day for an EV, we are talking 100's of MWs per hour for a data center and they are building data centers left and right.

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munche@reddit

Everyone is selling as much of your data as they can

The reason is that the number always has to go up

You can't just be a stable business, you have to show GROWTH every quarter. If you have grown as much as you can at selling Woozits, then you have to start finding other revenue sources. That's ads, that's data collection, it's all that shit.

That's why every single thing we use has gotten worse lately. Because every company needs to show infinite growth forever and they're all trying to grow by shoving more ads at us and selling our data to more advertisers so they can shove more ads at us

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Shallow_wanderer@reddit

And thanks to us hitting the wall with "producing quality products to attract loyal customers", we now get to watch every fucking thing be turned into an EV ipad on wheels that will fall apart in less than 10 years because everything these days has to be designed to break in order for the red line to go up

Modern cars kind of suck and idc I'm dying on this hill

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rental_car_fast@reddit

I will drive my "dumb" cars until they fucking rust to death

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LA-ncevance@reddit

That's true for most businesses, but the profit of selling data was likely less than a million for GM. A drop in the bucket. The PR damage is an order of magnitude higher.

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flictonic@reddit

I was personally impacted and would never, ever buy a GM again because of this.

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LA-ncevance@reddit

Exactly, and GM likely made less than 10 pennies off your data.

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AncefAbuser@reddit

It'll be undone in 4 days so who cares?

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ObligationSlight8771@reddit

Is there literally anything this new administration is going to stand for that looks out for the common consumer at all? Cause this is looking bleak

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Porshuh@reddit

They'll be undoing the anticompetitive TikTok ban.

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WhetBred14@reddit

Can’t wait for meta to own every social platform

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VT_Racer@reddit

They love the "free market". Free from any competition.

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rental_car_fast@reddit

Not a single thing. Their entire strategy is to fuck over americans as completely and thoroughly as possible to ensure the wealthiest among us get even wealthier.

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deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

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AutoModerator@reddit

Policy discussion is welcome. However, if your post involves politics AND CARS, please consider submitting to /r/CarsOffTopic.

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The69LTD@reddit

This ain’t it chief. Keep on censoring people, works really well. This is clearly a topic for this subreddit. Just cause you don’t agree with the content doesn’t mean the discussion isn’t warranted. Stop abusing your mod power and allow civil discourse, this shit is getting incredibly annoying and you can decide to be on the side of censorship or allow civil discourse.

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Drzhivago138@reddit

It's less that the mods "don't agree" and more that the automod is overzealous about deleting anything even potentially political in nature.

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gumol@reddit

talk about policy, but you can't mention some politicians that own those policies. You can mention others though, like Elon Musk...

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ineyeseekay@reddit

No, unless it happens to be profitable to the wealthy.

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Terrh@reddit

Now do the rest of them.

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stupidzoidberg@reddit

Now can they do it for all auto manufacturers

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DangerousAd1731@reddit

This is good news. Now let's make sure the others aren't doing it like Tesla. And Saab.

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gumol@reddit

Saab?

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DangerousAd1731@reddit

Lol it popped in my head out of the blue 🤣

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BetterThanAFoon@reddit

We need some right to privacy laws here in the US that makes Data collection and data sharing plain understandable opt in language, and gives a consumer the right to revoke. And when they do revoke their agreement to share data, anyone that distributed that data must destroy it, and so must those they shared it with. The right to collect must be an opt in, the right to share must be an opt in, and the right to delete must be auditable.

Not this weak target one manufacturer hand slap stuff.

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