Why do Europeans prefer manuals over autos?
Posted by boiyo12@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 175 comments
I looked it up but still don't understand why americans prefer automatic and europeans prefer manual, considering that all the benefits europeans enjoy of manuals over automatic also exist in America. Manual cars are cheaper to maintain and purchase in both, for example. Some people said its because manuals are more fuel efficient, but thats not true at all for modern cars, no? Another website said manuals are better on uphills, but America also has uphills in many regions? I just don't get it. The ONLY reason I can find is the license situation, where in Europe if you can drive manual you can drive both autos and manuals. But other than that, am I missing something?
shrekerecker97@reddit
Driven in rush hour across LA. I had shin splints in my left leg by the time it got to my destination. I should probably exercise the shins more lol š
Specific-Control8030@reddit
Cheaper and Americans have more disposable income
ironicmirror@reddit
Typically, Europeans have smaller cars than Americans.
Typically, (and this may be mostly 20 years ago), manual transmissions are more efficient than automatic transmissions
Typically, the cost of gas is two times more expensive in Europe.
Typically, Europeans live in areas with sufficient public transport where they can take buses or trains for a lot more of their trips than we can in america.
So: gas is really expensive in europe, so they want to make the vehicle as efficient as possible, and since there are alternative means, they're not necessarily in their car everyday. They buy more manual transmissions.
Mc_Bruh656@reddit
Yeah, as you pointed out the manual transmission being more efficient than an automatic transmission is outdated, and has been for a while.
If I had to guess why they have more manuals I'd say probably cost savings. If you're not using the car too often because of public transportation, you'd probably want something fairly cheap.
ChopstickChad@reddit
The automatic adds 2-4k to the purchase price, costs way more money in maintenance, and when it breaks it's again way more expensive to replace then a manual. Manual transmission fluid needs to be done once every 100k miles, your automatic may have been serviced 3-5 times (at ~200 a pop that's another grand).
Historically though it has been about cost saving, availability and gasoline consumption differences. Also automatic was often viewed as unnecessary luxury (calvinistic cultural lense).
Nowadays it's about availability, price, and the type of driver's license you have. If you pass your test on a manual you can drive auto too but not the other way around. Only since EV's have gone mainstream is there a larger portion of drivers who pass only for automatics.
kenmohler@reddit
My Cadillac service manual says to treat my 8 speed automatic transmission as a sealed unit. Transmission fluid should be changed at 150,000 miles. No way is it going to be changed 3-5 times before 100,000 miles. You may be right about the purchase price difference where you are. Here you are likely to have to pay extra for a manual transmission. Donāt get me wrong, I enjoy manual transmissions. I have owned four of them over the past 70 years. But here, a manual transmission is neither cheaper nor more efficient than an automatic.
E90BarberaRed6spdN52@reddit
Fuel economy.
PoccaPutanna@reddit
I can't speak for other countries, but in Italy we're just used to drive manual because we learn with it at the driving school. I regularly use cars with both automatic or manual transmission and to me it makes no difference, but a lot of people I know prefer automatic. Some of the best selling new cars in Italy only come with automatic transmissions nowadays (for example almost all Toyotas) but they're very popular. Maybe the older generations still prefers manual, but it's mostly because they don't want to learn to drive an automatic
plainsfiddle@reddit
I think europeans value driving as a skill, and see mastering a manual transmission as part of demonstrating that. americans are offended by the idea of being required to be competent at something.
shrekerecker97@reddit
Not only that, Americans drive more. Have you ever driven a manual in rush hour traffic? I prefer a manual in general but see why some prefer an automatic
nasadowsk@reddit
Crossed midtown Manhattan plenty of times in a stick shift Mustang. It's not hard. Changed pants a few times while sitting in traffic.
The real reasons is emissions, which the way it's handled in the US, favors automatics. Also, a separate test needs to be sent in to the EPA for each engine/transmission combo. Which is why so few cars offer it.
Hell, even big rigs are automatic, though it's usually the tupperware styles fleet ones. Which are usually the worst drivers. There was a time when even busses were stick...
sps49@reddit
Oh, you drove several blocks across Manhattan with a stick!
Thatās not a commute.
nasadowsk@reddit
Driving from the Bay Park sewer plant, to the tunnel, through midtown, onto Rt 3, up to 46, over to 23 and up 23.
Launch_Zealot@reddit
I've driven a manual in LA rush hour traffic for just about 25 years and my typical commute over the years was an hour each way (sometimes much longer, sometimes a little shorter).
It's not that big of a deal. If you can walk, you can shift. Americans just can't be bothered.
karlowolf05@reddit
Europeans don't really think about it that way, every grandma in Europe drives a manual. Guess it was just cheaper back in time so it kinda got into tradition.
unmanipinfo@reddit
Italian grandmother slam shifting her Fiat Panda through narrow alleyways comes to mind
CruelMarmoset@reddit
Nona shifting, not double clutching like she should
infiltrateoppose@reddit
Yes - it's more the stigma - automatics are thought of as disability adaptations.
corruptboomerang@reddit
It's also much easier to drive a little manual car then a big manual car.
LivingGhost371@reddit
Americans just see it as archaic technology that's been superceeded and needless work, like a crank starter out front or acetylene headlights would be.
Its_noon_somewhere@reddit
Iām the opposite, Iām stuck in automatic work trucks all day and canāt wait to get back into one of my manuals after work.
Automatics make the critical decisions for the driver, and itās programmed to save fuel, not performance. I want full control of the driveline.
nanneryeeter@reddit
Five speed is way better than the AW4 in the XJ. They run cooler and get a decent amount better fuel mileage in real world use.
Fearless_Resolve_738@reddit
Yes, the dual clutch transmission is the way to go. It is oem in most luxury & exotics
tomashen@reddit
Well put š and it shows, considering the brown maggot that was voted in now š
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Racist
tomashen@reddit
I take it you love your newly elected brown bronze '' hero''?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Unlike you I don't judge people based on the color of their skin.
_BaldyLocks_@reddit
Makeup doesn't count as skin
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
So you're saying blackface is ok?
BudFox_LA@reddit
Heās talking about Trumpā¦.
RealEstateDuck@reddit
Hmm yes racism against checks notes rich whiteish man.
nanneryeeter@reddit
God that's a funny comment.
The country that produces the best of nearly everything in terms of quality goods, along with top athletes, engineers musicians, etc. hate to be competent.
Sacabubu@reddit
Automatic is more expensive and europeans on average have less disposable income. Has nothing to do with people wanting to "master the art of driving."
Also the EU and UK market is switching to autos pretty quickly.
Affectionate_Sort_78@reddit
Dude, you are self congratulating yourself for a really simple thing.
Ambitious_Juice_2352@reddit
Fantastic.
secondrat@reddit
This
jondes99@reddit
If youāre steering with your left knee, texting with your right hand and drinking a gigundo Starbucks with your left, how are supposed to shift?
ianb2626@reddit
By gripping the shifter with your ring and pinkie finger of course!
Floppie7th@reddit
Unironically, thumb+pinky+bottom bit of the palm does work.Ā When I drive other people's cars and need to hold my phone for GPS, this is what I do.
kilertree@reddit
Ironically America built the fastest stick shift track car. The Dodge Viper ACR Will probably stay the fastest stick shift just due to emissions, gas mileage and even noise regulations. Apparently the GT3 RS was having issues with the manual passing noise regulations.
jmadinya@reddit
source on the "americans are offended by the idea of being required to be competent at something" claim?
Minimum-Station-1202@reddit
have you been to Walmart before?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Required, yup.
Ok-Helicopter-641@reddit
Save gas
alfienoakes@reddit
Broadly speaking just better drivers in Europe. Driving stick reinforces that.
You pass a test in Europe. You āget your licenceā in North America. Itās wording but it matters.
Club_Penguin_Legend_@reddit
You aren't a better driver for learning stick. It's just another skill to learn.
You have to pass a test in North America as well.
In fact, the process of getting your license is really long. At least in British Columbia, Canada, it is.
At 16, you can get your Learners license or L for short. You must pass a 40-question exam about the rules of the road and signage. I'm pretty sure you have to get 80%, but I can't quite remember. Once you pass, you must display the L magnet on your vehicle, and you can only drive when you have a passenger over the age of 25, and they must have their full license. You also have a whole bunch of other restrictions.
After a year, you can take a 30-minute driving test with an employee of our insurance company we have here. If you pass that, you get your Novice license, and you must display the N magnet. You now have fewer restrictions but still a lot. You can also now drive alone.
After two years, you must take another 30-minute test, and if you pass that, you then get your full license with no restrictions.
So, 3 years in total. Seems pretty good.
infiltrateoppose@reddit
"You have to pass a test in North America as well."
Having passed in Europe and the US I can tell you the US testing is a joke by comparison.
Club_Penguin_Legend_@reddit
I don't know anything about the US. I provided a Canadian example. I think Canadian standards for testing are fine. It's been a year now with my full license, and I've never been in an accident. Driving ain't that hard.
Its_noon_somewhere@reddit
True, people are not better drivers because they can drive stick,
However,
Better drivers typically know how to drive stick anyway.
Learning how to drive a stick translates into better understanding of all the mechanical features between the road and the accelerator. Too many oblivious drivers donāt have any clue about transmissions, FWD vs RWD vs AWD, etc
Timewastinloser27@reddit
You think we just go down to the license store when we turn 16 and get a license? There's still required testing.
Scared-Gazelle659@reddit
I recently got my Dutch driving license so I was looking up mock tests on youtube. What I learned was that UK roundabouts are insane and some US states' tests are barely more difficult than showing up.
But I also know a Chinese woman that moreso bought her license than earned it.
GearheadGamer3D@reddit
Yeah, we should be much more strict about driving here. And just because you passed your driving test in 1950 doesnāt mean you know the rules of the road today.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
It's a good thing intelligence isn't genetic, ohh wait.... never mind.
karlowolf05@reddit
Are we Europeans also getting that silly manual elitism disease?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
u/Its_noon_somewhere
nope
MagazineNo2198@reddit
The funny thing is, manuals AND automatics are both obsolete now. In 10 years, no one except the hardcore enthusiasts will be driving them! (assuming we survive the next few years anyway)
LazyLancer@reddit
I think it comes from old days when automatic transmissions consumed more fuel and were more sluggish overall. European cars were never about having a huge boat with a train-sized engine for a car. Due to multiple fuel and energy crises as well as wars, it only made sense to use the more economical options. Remember the VW Beetle, Fiat 500, Citroen 2CV, VW Golf etc. Mini Cooper was exactly THE answer to high fuel prices, even though not exactly in Europe.
Since then the manual became the norm and auto boxes did not get as much widespread as in the US.
Xyzzydude@reddit
Thatās changing and is no longer true
In 1997 only 10-12 percent of cars sold in Europe had automatic transmissions
In 2020 the number was 75%
Source: https://www.transmissiondigest.com/automatic-trends-europe-transmission/
_BaldyLocks_@reddit
Yep, mostly because electric and hybrid don't come as manual.
There are only 2 situations on regular roads where I prefer manual, on the snow and on windy mountain roads.
persteinar@reddit
Neither automatic nor manual transmission makes sense for electric cars.
Its_noon_somewhere@reddit
My FWD manual transmission Golf is better in the snow than my 4x4 Tundra most days
Untilā¦
Deep snow, steep hill, or Iām actually stuckā¦ then the 4x4 wins
Stephen_Dann@reddit
When you are 17 - 18 and buying your first car, all you all can afford are cars that are manual. Mainly because 90% of cars are. Also when I was under 30, automatics were seen as lazy and driven by old people. I have driven manuals all my life it is something you learn and is the standard
Urine_Nate@reddit
The number one selling vehicle in America is the F series pickup truck. The GM twins are also top sellers in the Silverado and Sierra. People aren't buying those in a manual, they buy them for family, towing and hauling. Normally with a 4WD. Next are SUVs that don't come with a manual. Europeans as a whole compared to Americans drive on smaller roads for shorter distances and have less parking available. Add in the taxes that some countries have for owning larger displacement vehicles and that tells more of the reason for the shift than anything.
MaximumDerpification@reddit
I'm American and strongly prefer manuals. I love driving and I find joy in rowing gears. Also... with an auto you often give it the beans and it lugs while trying to figure out what gear it should be in for what you're trying to do... with a manual if I'm in the wrong gear I've got nothing to blame but myself.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
"with a manual if I'm in the wrong gear I've got nothing to blame but myself."
Same is true for an auto.
outline8668@reddit
Huh? Nobody is manually downshifting their automatic every time they go to speed up. That's the whole point of getting the automatic.
Its_noon_somewhere@reddit
I shift my automatic manually in snowy/icy conditions and hilly terrain.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Did I say "every time"?
Everybardever@reddit
Tell that to the rash of CLK drivers swapping in manuals after an unexpected downshift.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Ok.
GearheadGamer3D@reddit
^ me too. Plus it doesnāt matter how fast an auto can shift when it canāt read my mind. If Iām waiting for a time to pass, I can go ahead and put it in a lower gear.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
"If Iām waiting for a time to pass, I can go ahead and put it in a lower gear."
As can I with an auto.
Its_noon_somewhere@reddit
As someone who drives both a manual and an automatic daily, and many models over three decades, all regular automatics have a significant delay in downshifting when you need to accelerate rapidly and immediately.
To be fair, most manual drivers cannot shift any faster than that delay anyway.
Automatics are inherently designed to save fuel and prevent engine damage, both are good benefits, at the sacrifice of full control.
Manuals allow you full control, and sometimes that results in excessive wear, and although full control is great, engine damage isnāt.
mrmniks@reddit
much less convenient
iamameatpopciple@reddit
If you just got more horsepower or a lighter vehicle, or both you wouldn't even have to change gears even if you were passing in top gear and already doing 100mph.
FlyingDutchman9977@reddit
While this is technically true, it takes consumers a long time to change their opinions about something like this. I lived in France in 2019, and a woman I lived with was looking for a new car, and she was insistent on it being manual for the efficiency, even though autos had caught up years ago. She also was insistent that our house ration things like light usage, even though lights are a relatively much smaller portion of electricity usage in a household than it has been historically.
I find Europeans in general can be stuck in their ways, more so than Americans. Americans have more of a consumer culture, so new products, services, conventions, etc. are constantly being introduced to them and in general, they value convenience. In Europe, there's more of an emphasis to do what works and preserve what they already have. As such, Europeans continue to trust manual transitions even as some of their advantages dissipate, while Americans quickly adopted the convenience of autos
lachyTDI7@reddit
This isnāt true anymore. Take the VW GTI for example. Manual uptake rate is much higher in the US because all the Euros want flappy paddles like F1 drivers. Now weāre losing the manual transmission here because Europe both doesnāt want it and canāt meet their CAFE targets without an automatic. Same thing happening on a lot of performance cars.
LrckLacroix@reddit
Most modern automatics are very reliable and are in fact more fuel efficient, as well as offering more power due to the torque converter.
Although its possible to have more than 6 speeds in a manual, you are limited by space and weight. Additionally, the human acts as the ātransmission control moduleā, meaning on a bad day you will cause more wear and tear. You could money shift, you could be banging the car off the rev limiter and drop the clutch with the e-brake engaged and completely fuck yourself. An auto will do a lot to protect itself and the passengers.
Now compare an automatic or even a DCT. They are able to fit like 10 gears in a much more compact space. The computers in the vehicle are constantly monitoring different values and adapting 24/7 to ensure smooth and virtually wear-free shifting. Plus, the vehicle can lock and unlock the torque converter for additional power or fuel economy.
Lastly, having full electronic control over the vehicle allows for a variety of scenarios to take place. 30 years ago, traction control might have cut fuel and ignition. Today, some vehicles do that, plus manipulation of transmission operation, manipulation of brakes, steering, etc.
Ignoring all the science, Its also a huge cultural thing. This is a wild analogy but; in the US, most men are circumcised, in Europe the opposite is true.
entropia17@reddit
Europeans are generally poor and donāt value driving comfort as much. Also a self-perpetuating cycle but thatās slowly going away, more and more people buy automatic.
whiskeytangocharlee@reddit
Come with me to the dimension where Americans drive manual as often as Europeans and you will see traffic in that world flows 10,000 percent better than it does in ours.
Automatics make bad drivers worse drivers
AnonyMouseSnatcher@reddit
People don't want to drive manuals because it's something you need to be taught, unlike automatics where you just put it in gear and off you go. And people can't or don't want to learn because you need to find someone already well-versed in ancient art of driving stick.
But i think that;s just a convenient excuse and the inconvenient truth is that most folks wouldn't want to drive a manual because then they couldn't fiddle with their phones as easily. Automatics do make bad drivers worse drivers, because it frees them up to be distracted. Rates of automatics has increased across Europe? Bet traffic accidents have too
whiskeytangocharlee@reddit
Yeah, there's so many things I'd like to list that I see automatic drivers do wrong like when they are in traffic and the remain in drive when other cars are stopped or barely moving and they coast at 2-5mph and continually inch forward at snail pace.
Americans are so dumb they will slow down to almost a complete stop seeing brake lights from a car that is 8 car lengths ahead of them, then afterwards depress the accelerator to reach their previous speed instead of just maintaining a constant speed
Thats the main thing I'd say really, automatics just allow already low IQ (my world would only issue a drivers license at 100 IQ or higher) to be extremely complacent and help them fail to maintain constant speeds.
Muted-Shake-6245@reddit
I like my CVT just fine, thanks.
Yours sincerely,
Lazy ass Dutch guy
Larsent@reddit
There isnāt a single simple explanation for this difference, but several historical, economic, and cultural factors have contributed to these preferences:
Historical factors: After WWII, American automakers pushed automatic transmissions heavily as a luxury feature and convenience, while European manufacturers continued focusing on manual transmissions. The post-war economic boom in America made automatics more affordable for average consumers.
Economic considerations: - Fuel prices have historically been much higher in Europe, and manual transmissions traditionally offered better fuel efficiency - Manual cars are generally less expensive to purchase and maintain - European driverās licenses are significantly more expensive and require learning manual transmission, creating a self-perpetuating cycle
Cultural aspects: - European driving culture places more emphasis on driver engagement and skill - American culture has traditionally valued convenience and comfort in vehicles - The longer distances typically driven in America made automatics more appealing for comfort
This divide is gradually shrinking. Modern automatic transmissions have become much more efficient, and their adoption is increasing in Europe, especially with the rise of electric vehicles which donāt use traditional transmissions. Meanwhile, manual transmissions are becoming increasingly rare in new American cars, with some manufacturers phasing them out entirely.
full_stealth@reddit
3 of my 5 vehicles are manual, my wife doesn't want to learn so....
Nice_Username_no14@reddit
Tradition, pricing.
Also europeans spend less time in their cars, and drive smaller cars because europe is just more cramped. Thus we drive cheaper cars and the comparative expense to go automatic makes the upgrade absurd.
But anyone whoās been driving stick on a jammed highway, wonāt ever go back from driving an automatic.
Varekinex@reddit
Europeans prefer smaller cars which are usually manuals.
NotsoNewtoGermany@reddit
This is a misnomer. Europeans were taught manuals, so they drive manuals. But manuals are now more expensive to own than automatics and are less fuel efficient. This year there were less automatic models for sale than ever before, with only BMW at the top. Everything else was an automatic or electric power train.
mrmniks@reddit
simple. europe is poor, and manuals are cheaper.
also, many cars in europe are small, and small cars are cheap, and cheap cars need to be manual to be cheaper.
there's a reason there's no Dacia in the US
Digital_Ark@reddit
Europeans largely prefer to drive vehicles that are enjoyable to drive, and a manual enhances that.
The most popular vehicles in America are pickup trucks, SUVās and large sedans. They might be nicer in a manual, but these were never about the joy of driving to begin with.
60-70% of American Miataās are stick.
Training_Try_9433@reddit
Probably because back in the day autos were crap! To put it lightly, these days they are in my opinion superior thus why their becoming more popular, and before you know it we will all be driving autos because they donāt build manual hybrid or electric cars
Club_Penguin_Legend_@reddit
They don't build manual hybrids anymore
The Honda CRZ and Insight were pretty awesome.
Flying-Half-a-Ship@reddit
Iām American, 40/F, owned like 12 cars and every single one has been manual. Dont generalize
notalottoseehere@reddit
Stick a torque converter automatic transmission on a 1.3L or smaller engine from the 2000's or before. It would suck.
Throw in fuel that was 3 to 5 times more expensive, and no one bothered with slush boxes.
With DSG and electric cars, this has changed a lot. But we were taxed out of decent engines in many countries in bigger cars. So no power for an auto box.
Teaching the 17 year old to drive manual, because his 1st car will invariably be a small engined manual, because insurance and legacy of 2nd hand market.
akhimovy@reddit
Cost. Maybe that's not much of a factor in the more western parts anymore but sure as hell it is here in the east. Not only automatics cost more to acquire. The maintenance costs can be through the roof, especially that not every shop knows how to handle these.
Because of that, automatics around here at least have a higher status. Funnily enough, even car guys such as my mechanic have a lot of praise for automatics, the stance is kind of opposite from the cult status of manuals here on Reddit.
There are some additional factor besides cost too. In most people's eyes, a manual license is the real one, if you limit yourself to automatic only this can be perceived as half-assed. Additionally, the distances driven in Europe seem to be a fraction of those in the USA. With as much driving as people do across the pond, automatic feels quite necessary. While around here you can get around with a manual just fine.
Due-Glove4808@reddit
Cliche or not but it makes driving more interesting, for car like 3 series bmw or porsche 911 ill take manual any day over automatic, that said there are cars that i rather take as manual that includes daily cruisers like volvos or e class mercedes.
Rich-Concentrate9047@reddit
To me the main reason I prefer manual is that it's so much easier to park. You have complete control other the throttle with your left (clutch) and right foot (throttle), when in an auto you basically have to do it with the brake and switch gears with your hand. I have to parallel park many times a day (medium sized city in France) and it feels more natural when I'm the one in charge of the vehicle. I can do it too with an auto but it feels weird.
Also, I feel more in charge of my vehicle. I don't dislike autos but they are so very very very very (very) boriiiiiing.
The great thing about automatic, though, is for high end luxury cars. At least the morons who buy them won't damage the beautiful engine that comes with the car... They have lots of money but they don't know how to drive so at least, the car stays safe.
Revolutionary-Fan235@reddit
There aren't enough Americans that care about saving on money and fuel. Some companies don't even make sedans anymore.
eoan_an@reddit
Manuals are better at almost every category, short of a dual clutch automatic or an electric vehicle.
Manuals also are much lighter, and unlike here, the EU actually has emission controls.
Manuals have so far lasted about twice as long as automatic, that's before the CVT (which we know lasts about a 3rd of the life)
Pound for pound it is much more efficient than a torque converter.
It's not flat there, like it is here, and a torque converter will have you roll and hit things before it winds up.
And there's winter driving.
Manual cars don't need AWD for the winter.
There are more benefits.
And they're so much more fun to drive.
Go to the EU and you'll likely find even more reasons.
throwpoo@reddit
I was taught that you have more control with a manual than an automatic. Plus if you pick automatic, your friends will think you can't drive and laugh at you in school.
In US, the ones that drive a manual usually are car enthusiast or that they inherit a car from their grandparents.
Having driven in both continent. US is a disaster.
msgnyc@reddit
American here. āš¼ Every car I've owned was a manual except 1 hand me down Saab 95 I had briefly. Love all the anti American, lazy American rhetoric tho š¤·āāļø
hagemeyp@reddit
Because itās hard to make, txt, drink, etc while driving a manual. Itās a skill that virtually no American values.
My personal car is a manual- and I wouldnāt have it any other way.
R2-Scotia@reddit
In Europe we had a lot of small cars in the past without enough power for the crude automatics of the time
Inertia and tradition
Nice-Zombie356@reddit
American here.
Going back to around the 80s, automatics were sold as a luxury. Thusā¦
Also, people who spent time stuck in traffic liked Automatic for obvious reasons.
AdFabulous3959@reddit
Maybe they like holding the shaft and moving it around?
guitarb26@reddit
More fun, more control over the vehicle, etc.
Driving is seen more as a privilege in Europe & public transport is (usually) at least somewhat useable. So, people drive because they want to. Whereas, in most of the US, people drive because they have to.
Europe has higher testing standards & a better standard of driving, in general.
user41510@reddit
That hasn't been true for decades now.
Then-Horror2238@reddit
American here, I love my manual transmission.
I think part of it is accessibility. There is a much lower entry cost (in terms of time to develop the skill of driving stick) for auto rather than manual. Additionally, much of Europe is built to accommodate pedestrians better than we are able to do on this side of the pond due to how spread out things are. It is definitely viewed as a bit of a dated skill in the US imo, however
Skensis@reddit
They don't, manuals are popular just because they are cheaper.
Luxury European cars are often autos even performance sport cars like 911s.
MrPapis@reddit
Here's a guy that don't get it.
Reverie_of_a_Realist@reddit
ā¬ļø mirror, says hi.
MrPapis@reddit
Ironic coming from the realist.
penguinpop987@reddit
It's likely because driving is less common and seen more as a privilege in Europe. In the USA cars are primarily a tool to commute to work. Autos are just less work to drive and Americans drive more on average.
themontajew@reddit
Itās because automatics ARE reliable (not counting CVTs) and they throw a shitload of gears in them making the fuel economy go up.
Big rigs use automatics these days, either with a converter or an electronically controlled clutch pack.
Low_Algae_1348@reddit
I drive an aspahalt distributor truck for work. 2 six wheelers. One peterbuilt with an automatic and a old international with a 6 speed eaton.to hell with shifting gears all night. Forget leg day at the gym. It would be more like right leg day at the gym.
I Don't get nostalgia for manual trannies.i don't miss driving a manual any more than I miss adjusting points, replacing caps and rotors and adjusting timing
Hoss408@reddit
Agreed, but for the record, the automatic in big rigs suck and are typically less efficient than a trucker who knows what he's doing. The last company i drove for bought 6 automatic trucks (buying the hype) and then immediately went back to only purchasing manuals. The reason a lot of large companies are buying automatic trucks is that many kids coming out of CDL school can't drive a manual and have an "automatic only" restriction on their CDL.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
They do have one advantage, I'm pretty darn good with a manual. But damn that auto could downshift more aggressively than I could, if I lost brakes I'd want an auto. They rest of the time though, give me a manual.
B5_S4@reddit
Every auto big rig is just an automated manual transmission, and they drive like ass since they can't creep. You can hear them slamming into the loading docks every time lol.
themontajew@reddit
thatās an automatic without a slush box
cr-islander@reddit
Manuals allow you to interact with the vehicle and keep your mind active, Automatics allow you to have that coffee and make a phone call while munching on your breakfast bagel. As they say You drive a manual but you steer an automatic....
pt5@reddit
If you like doing burnouts, enjoy shifting gears yourself, or REALLY care about weight reduction for some reason (auto trans are slightly heavier and generate more heat), then manuals are the way to go. Theyāre also slightly cheaper to produce en masse and have a stronger tradition associated with them over there.
The other stereotypical benefits like quicker shifting, increased fuel economy, etcetera are no more due to massive improvements in automatic transmissions over the last couple decades.
Masseyrati80@reddit
As a European driver, I can say I live in an area where traffic jams are nearly non-existent. And that traffic jams would be my primary reason to get into automatic gear boxes.
Personally, I've simply enjoyed shifting gears myself, starting from the 3-gear bicycle I got at the age of 6, then moving to more sports-oriented bicycles, as well as mopeds, motorcycles and cars with manual gears. I enjoy the feeling of control and engagement, despite driving one of those bog-standard family cars that are considered embarrasingly boring by car enthusiasts. I've driven something like 5 or 6 cars and vans with automatic gearboxes briefly, and haven't liked any of them.
However, whereas in my childhood and youth, including the time I got my license, automatic boxes were so rare they weren't even considered a factor when getting a license, nowadays automatics are the default in new cars and the driver's license system has adapted to the situation. I'm lagging behind new cars by something like 10 years, and will continue to choose manual cars for as long as it doesn't mean compromising too hard on other important factors for me.
Other_crisp@reddit
Most are cheaper and generally older generations prefer what they've done for years and younger people are buying older people's second hand cars
grogi81@reddit
Europeans don't value manuals over automatic. This is an excuse that every person that cannot afford an automatic in their car...
Automatic is more expensive to buy (the premium is much higher in Europe, and in the US there actually might be a premium for the manual), more expensive to.run and definitely more expensive to fix should go wrong.
Many people have never driven automatically and don't even know how good it is. Put them on a hybrid Toyota or an EV and they won't "prefer" manual anymore.
eight47pm@reddit
I honestly think itās because we learn on a manual+the fact automatics have typically been an optional extra in Europe, we donāt need the manual so donāt spend a lot of extra to have it. Granted most new cars these days are no longer available with a manual at all
Lubi3chill@reddit
Manual is just cheaper in every way. Cheaper to buy cheaper to maintain cheaper to drive.
ThePurch@reddit
Laziness. People want everything to be as easy as possible. Itās the same reason why such a crazy percentage of the population is obese in North America. Making healthy food and exercising is hard. Sitting on the couch watching sports is easy. Why would they shift their own gears when the car can do that for them.
There are still a small population of us who only drive manuals here in North America, and itās mostly about the joy of driving. Most North Americans just look at their vehicles as tools, not toys.
Ithrowaway000@reddit
74% of Americans are overweight and 43% obese. Theyāre obsessed with pickup trucks to get groceries and yelling at the tv because their favorite football team missed a field goal on weekends. During the week theyāre too busy working to pay for their healthcare. They donāt have time to learn how to drive stick.
its_just_fine@reddit
You're probably too lazy to churn your own butter.
ThePurch@reddit
Funny you should say that, because I grew up on a farm and still live in a farming community.
its_just_fine@reddit
That is actually really funny. Reddit is a strange place.
atlwhore_@reddit
Man with the commutes we have itās not laziness thatās just too much driving we do every day. Iām not sitting in Atlanta traffic for almost one hour twice a day with a manual five days a week
ThePurch@reddit
So you basically said I donāt want to drive manual because itās too much work in traffic. Google defines laziness as āthe quality of being unwilling to work or use energy; idleness.ā Seems pretty darn close to your excuse, no? You can downvote if you like, but facts are facts, and an adult would recognize that.
Every day I commute into Toronto; the worst traffic in North America. Not once have thought I wish I had an automatic in the 25 years Iāve been working. If Iām going to be spending that much time of my life driving, Iām going to fucking enjoy it! š¤
chillaxtion@reddit
Because Europeans are too stupid to see the obvious advantages of auto but are catching on. In 2000 85% of European sales were manuals. Now itās 32%
sangfoudre@reddit
Speaking for France, until 15 years ago, auto boxes were mostly crap, performance, agreement and fuel consumption. We, in Europe, actually pay for gas, so add a very not endearing tax for auto boxes, only handicapped people bought those boxes, as well as very few rich people buying Mercedes or bmw that had mildly decent boxes.
The arrival of modern computerized 7, 8 or 9 gears with 3ms shift and double clutch made the gearboxes competitive with manual, even better than manual driving now. Add that hybrid are like 2 cars out 3 sold and you got Europeans buying auto gearboxes
Unusual_Entity@reddit
Historically, automatic transmissions were a bit hopeless. As well as being more expensive to buy, they had fewer ratios, sluggish performance due to inefficient torque converters, poorer fuel economy etc, with no real advantage. As fuel is more expensive, this mattered. So for your average car, automatics were seen to exist for the disabled, elderly, Americans, and for bad drivers who weren't capable of handling a 'proper' car.
While modern autos are significantly better, most used cars are still manual, almost all vans are manual, and there is the licensing issue which incentivises people to learn on a manual.
Readitwhileipoo@reddit
Because they actually know how to drive. So thankful I learned on a manual.
bigcee42@reddit
In Europe manual is the default option and you have to learn in manual to even get licensed. Automatic is the "luxury" option. Not so in America. American licenses do not distinguish between manual and automatic. In America driving manual is purely an enthusiast thing nowadays.
For enthusiast vehicles specifically, Americans actually buy more manuals than Europens. The Porsche 911 GT3 has higher manual take-rate in America than Europe for example. American demand basically forced Porsche to bring back more manuals and produce manual editions like the 911R and 911S/T. The BMW M5 was produced in manual for 2 generations after they stopped doing that in Europe. When Americans actually ask for manuals, they get them.
Neither-Impress-375@reddit
Hopefully i can answer this as a āeuropeanā (Swede) In Sweden, 50% of all cars on the road are manual. The reasoning behind it is for 3 reasons:
Fuel economy. For a very long time manuals had better fuel economy. You have to remember gas prices are stupidly high (roughly 5.5$ a gallon, and we have one of the lowest prices in the EU) so buying a car with a manual could not only bring the price of purchase down, but also make the ongoing cost of fuel less. Also manual transmission donāt need fluid changes nearly as often as automatics.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
I'm curious, which gallon does Sweden use?
Neither-Impress-375@reddit
We use liters, i just converted it, heh
pv2b@reddit
Sweden here too. My dad's the same way. He's in his 80s and he doesn't want an automatic. Thinks he might get bored driving if he didn't have shifting gears to keep him busy. Which makes no sense, but hey.
One thing that I've done a few times in an automatic being used for manuals is accidentally braking hard because muscle memory's trying to make my left foot push the clutch down. But that's pretty much a mistake I only did a few times before unlearning it. So there is a bit of a barrier to getting used to an auto, but it really isn't that high.
twoscoopsofbacon@reddit
American.Ā Prefer manual, but hard to get them in new cars.
Had two nearly identical cars (2018 civic 1.5t hatch 6mt vs the same 22 civic 1.5t hatch cvt), and nearly a 10 mpg difference.Ā If anything I drove the 18 harder.Ā 36mpg vs 42-46mpg.
So I question the 'no difference in gas milage' thing in modern cars, at least in small modern cars.
Ok-Pickleing@reddit
What ate the benefits of a manual? Worse gas economy?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
You get to pretend you're a race car driver.
Butch_Hudson@reddit
In past most of the cars was manual in Europe, ppl are used to it. And automatic cost extra in low-mid range cars. Manual is standard, automat is extra paid. Even in small trucks. My company is buying new 12ton Iveco Eurocargo now and automatic cost +/-3000 EUR more. Thats why I still drive manual and I hate it!!!! Automatic is so comfy to drive. Once you have to drive every day all day long with manual and you already had automatic before, you will hate all the shifting and clutching. 3987 unnecessary moves everyday, especially when you drive something like Iveco, where nothing is smooth, but everything feels like moving a stone š¤£
ze11ez@reddit
Americans want to get in a car and drive without messing with the manual. Itās more work, more skill
carsarerealcool@reddit
lol you say that like itās some big feat learning to drive a manual. You can get off your high horse now, driving a manual isnāt very skill intensive.
Kingsley-Zissou@reddit
Driving a manual isnāt exactly rocket surgery.
Driving a manual while eating a Big Mac, sucking down a 40 oz sodie, putting on mascara, and texting your bestie on the other hand..
ze11ez@reddit
Im answering the question, and itās true
You-Asked-Me@reddit
I think it is just a matter of economics and marketing.
It seems that culturally, in Europe cars are more of a tool. Something cheap and practical.
In the US, Americans view cars as status symbols, luxury items, etc. A lot of the large SUVs and Trucks sold in the US are impractical for Europe, and a lot of Europeans do not want them anyway.
Americans want convenience, and luxury. Europeans just want to get to the other side of town.
Look at Japanese auto makers over the years and you will see distinct changes to the design of cars and motorcycles, when they realized that Americans were on average larger people, and with different desires for a vehicle.
oradba@reddit
Depends where you live. The majority of Americans live in suburban and urban areas, where traffic jams are a fact of life. People in rural areas are much more likely to drive a stick. I live primarily in suburbs, drove stick for twenty-five years (learned manual on a Simca, later drove a little BMW 320i and a couple of Saabs. I tore my left knee up playing sports as a kid; around forty-five or so, the old first-second / first-second-third / first/first-second routine started to ache enough that I went to automatics.
mittsh@reddit
Itās just that in the US, a car is assumed to be automatic, while in Europe itās assumed to be manual (although lately automatic have been gaining popularity a lot more). I rented cars many times, both in the USA (from airports) and in Europe. In the US, itās not even a question, you get an automatic. In Europe, youād have to specifically ask to get an automatic, unless maybe you rent a more premium tier.
pv2b@reddit
First of all "Europeans" are a very large and diverse group of people, and it's always problematic to try to generalize about a whole continent of people. But let's put that aside for a bit. I'm from Sweden, which is in Europe.
Let's also for a moment forget about electric cars. Manual gearboxes make no sense for electric vehicles, whether it's a hybrid drivetrain or a pure electric, so any EV you see anywhere, unless it's some kind of aftermarket ICE conversion of some high performance vehicle, they will not have manually selectable gears.
With all that said, I think the question is backwards. The real question is, why do Americans shy away from manuals? After all, as you mention, they are cheaper to own, and they have (historically at least) been cheaper to operate. And the way cars used to be is relevant because there are a lot of older cars on the road and the used market.
Personally, I think a lot of it comes down to culture. For a lot of Americans, "driving stick" is seen to be something that's for car enthusiasts only, at least from what I've seen. Sometimes you get Americans who'll say something like Europeans are better drivers because we can all (at least most of us) drive a stick, which is just ridiculous.
For me, and I guess most Europeans (there's that generalization again), there's no real mystique or intimidation around manual gearboxes. It's just the way cars are, it's not a big deal. If you know how to drive a manual, why not save the money? Yeah, automatics are nicer, but it's a premium option that costs extra, which you might not care to spend.
If I were to guess, the reason manuals aren't as popular in the US is that drivers aren't taught on them, or how to use them. That makes them seem more like neccessity than a premium option.
For my own take on manuals: My last car was a manual 2008 Volvo S40 with a manual gearbox. My current car is a Renault MĆ©gane E-tech, which is an electric car and thus automatic. This is the first automatic car I've driven regularilly other than the occasional rental. And I'll say for sure that I like automatic better, it's more convenient, but it's really not that big of a deal compared to a manual unless you're trying to go at a slow controlled speed up a steep incline, where manual is terrifying.
But when I bought my Volvo (used), price was very much the reason I went with a manual, not preference.
1988rx7T2@reddit
if you google it, the trend is toward automatics in europe, and of course battery electrics and almost all hybrids are automatics. Emissions regulations will kill manuals in Europe pretty soon too.
MeepleMerson@reddit
Based on my travels in Europe, I don't think that the premise is incorrect (at least anymore).
Europeans for a long time preferred manual transmission cars because they were cheaper, you could get better mileage, and they felt more comfortable driving them in mountainous terrain (namely using engine breaking). Improvements to automatic transmission, the increased popularity of hybrids with CVTs, and now the uptake of EVs (no shifting) in many countries have dramatically eroded the preference.
When I first married my wife (from Scandinavia), every one of her family members drove a manual transmission car, and I could rent a manual transmission car for about 15% less than an automatic. Today, I don't know anyone in my wife's home country still driving a manual transmission car, and not only is there not a discount but it's hard to rent a manual today.
I would say that southern Europe you still see plenty of manual transmission cars, but much fewer than 20 years ago. Fewer are being built every year. I saw quite a few in Greece when I was last there, and Italy too.
elliomitch@reddit
Even my octogenarian grandmother, before she stopped driving, said she didnāt like automatics because she didnāt feel like she was in control.
I think that that mindset/feeling still lingers in European culture. As tech has improved and cars have got more expensive, autos are far more prevalent here. But I think itās just a legacy mindset.
Iām ignoring the enthusiast community, as theyāre a minority (especially in the new car purchasing demographic)
karlowolf05@reddit
They really don't anymore. Most relatively newer cars are automatic even in Eastern Europe.
Watsis_name@reddit
Even the newest mini generation are all automatic. How could anyone bring themselves to drive an automatic mini.
It's a travesty.
karlowolf05@reddit
Idk, grew up driving with manuals since I was a kid, automatic is just better nowdays.
its_just_fine@reddit
Everything you posted sounds like you are stuck 50 years in the past. Except for the part about manuals being better on hills. That's never been true.
RichardGG24@reddit
IMO itās mostly about the cost, manual is usually the cheapest way to get into a specific model. Euro market has some very interesting cost cutting measures that that us American donāt get, for instance over there newer Volvos can be bought with 3 cylinder engine, 6 speed manual, last generation 6 speed auto transmission and even a 7 speed DCT, but here in North America they only comes in 4 cylinder turbo with 8 speed auto.
Watsis_name@reddit
As a European who has driven both manuals and automatics I think there's a lot of reasons.
There's the obvious stuff like manuals are cheaper, sturdier, and easier to repair, but they can be tiring in stop start traffic, or on longer journeys and more recently are less fuel efficient.
Then there is the driving experience. Driving with a manual is more active, it's an additional aspect of the machine you control. This goes both ways, having a manual can feel like a more complete driving experience, or it can feel like an additional unnecessary hassle.
There's also a certain culture around driving tests. In Europe you're not really seen to have passed your driving test unless you're qualified to drive a manual. Wheras it seems that in America it's perfectly normal to be unable to drive a manual.
RegularOrdinary9875@reddit
Europians like to save money, i think that is the biggest Reason
Tree_killer_76@reddit
The only reason manuals are still so popular in Europe is cost and ease of changing fluid. That is the only benefit a manual transmission offers over a modern automatic.
I used to love my sporty cars with 6 speed manuals, but then I got a Mustang with a 5 speed automatic and was blown away at how well the transmission worked. Now Iāve got a vehicle with a hemi and a ZF 8HP70 8 speed automatic with paddle shifters. In sport mode the throttle response is fantastic, and in manual mode, paddle shifting is lightning quick. There is no way I would go back to a manual transmission in my daily driver.
That said, my toy is an old Jeep with a bulletproof NV4500 5 speed manual, and I love the control it provides when off-roading.
FreemansAlive@reddit
I work with a man and woman from Bulgaria, another from Italy, another from England. We talk cars off and on and this topic came up before. All of them speaking for themselves, their families and everyone they know at home would prefer automatics. It's perceived as a step up but not taken due strictly to price. It's funny I'm the only one in the car person group at work that drives a manual and I'm not from Europe.
NeelSahay0@reddit
Iām American, I only started driving auto this year after 8 years behind 3 pedals.
Automatic isā¦ scary. The car doesnāt do what I expect it to. Thereās minimal engine braking. I often find my following distance being too little. Itās jerky in traffic. Itās worse on gas. The car feels slower because itās geared taller, and the feeling of constant slip is off putting.
I do not like driving automatic, I feel as if I am in less control of the vehicle.
Emperor_of_Fish@reddit
Just seems like youāve gotta get used to driving auto. They donāt have as much engine braking, so you have to use the actual brakes.
Emotional-Study-3848@reddit
It is absolutely better on gas and is less jerky. I mean the whole point is a CVT is to always stay in the optimal power band lol
NeelSahay0@reddit
Manual cars were consistently better on gas until maybe 10 years ago, even with generally shorter final drive ratios.
An older auto car will usually disengage when youāre off throttle. Getting back on causes a small lurch as the wheel speed and motor speed match. Compared to a manual, with a gentle on-off throttle feeling.
Wbcn_1@reddit
Your driving antiques mateĀ
NeelSahay0@reddit
Iāve driven modern autos too and theyāre mostly the same, until maybe 2015 or sooner, but at that point the car is so complicated, expensive and hard to fix that Iād rather have a manual anyways.
Runtodanger6@reddit
I daily drove a manual for years. I still have a manual, but itās an old Wrangler that I mainly drive in the summer. I drive a Golf R DSG as a daily now and itās mainly because traffic is brutal where I live. I canāt speak for most other Americans, but I think it has to do with people not knowing how to drive them compiled with the ease of driving an automatic.
landwomble@reddit
Autos aren't common in smaller cars. Manual is fun to drive. Fuel is historically a lot more expensive here so going back a few decades the american model of large engine and basic 3-4 speed auto wasn't a thing in Europe. You'll probably find it's a demographic thing - young people who buy small cars have a manual, older people who drive BMW/Merc tend to go for autos, car enthusiasts tend to go manual.
Dplayerx@reddit
Because they are one with their machines, at night their shifter is used as a big dildo.