Do you think drinking alcohol should/will go the same route as smoking has?

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SentientWickerBasket@reddit

No. Firstly, while alcohol is *not* good for you, it's much less addictive than nicotine. You're addicted to cigarettes in about two weeks; not the case with a responsible level of drinking. Secondly, and this has been proven by the Americans, alcohol is impossible to ban. We homebrewers have a saying, that your batch *wants* to become beer. That is to say, making an alcoholic drink is incredibly easy with ingredients that can't be banned; the skill in brewing comes from making something *nice*. It's so easy that monkeys have been known to ferment tree sap. Thirdly, and I do suspect this will be the bete noire of the cigarette ban, stopping supply doesn't end demand. We as a society can't even get rid of the most dangerous and addictive substances out there, and these have complex underground supply chains spamming continents. Cigarettes will be smuggled from abroad. Alcohol, you've no chance. None.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

I think you missed my point. I wasn't suggesting they were going to ban alcohol, I mean, they haven't banned cigarettes, just made it expensive and awkward for smokers. I agree with you that banning alcohol isn't going to happen. What I was wondering though, is whether alcohol will get the same health warnings and get demonised in the future, thus making alcohol seem much less desirable, similar to how cigarettes have been?

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looseleaffanatic@reddit

I think we already are, almost daily I hear an advert on the radio reminding me of how alcohol causes cancer... My pint of stout isn't the same as drinking 3 bottles of cheap cider, I'd love to see the scientific breakdown, its propagandistic and served untruths.

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Previous-Hope-5130@reddit

Alcohol is one of the most dangerous drug, with the biggest impact on people around the user. It is also so ingrained in human nature, that you will be question why you not wanna drink, which is fcking bizarre. You would never question why somebody doesn't want to ingest cocaine, amphetamine etc. Obviously is so socially acceptable that probably will never go away.

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looseleaffanatic@reddit

You haven't met my friends group lol...

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looseleaffanatic@reddit

I'll just make it myself...

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EuroSong@reddit

No, because drinking alcohol **sensibly** and in moderation doesn’t harm, or otherwise negatively affect other people in any way. But smoking tobacco directly affects any person in the vicinity of the smoker in an extremely negative way. That’s why there’s been so much pressure to phase out smoking, but virtually nothing similar for drinking.

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collapsedcuttlefish@reddit

Smoking doesn't cause someone to crash into a mother and child or go home and beat their wife. Anything that significantly alters the mental state like alcohol is really dangerous. I would say it's more dangerous than many class A substances. Smoking will kill your lungs, sure. But alcohol will kill your liver as well as change your mental state. Alcohol can make you violent, neglectful, impact your motor skills and perception. We are so brainwashed into thinking it's harmless.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

So would you want to see more messages out there about alcohol being unsafe, similar to how tobacco was demonised?

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collapsedcuttlefish@reddit

They already exist, but they are ineffective. Same for tobacco. Not like the horrible packaging signs full of fleshy organs put people off buying a pack. I don't really know what the answer is, personally I would like if we had stronger support networks for people with addiction rather than frivolous campaigns.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

But that's not what some reports say, in fact it says that it does harm, it's a poison and the glass of red wine a day thing isn't true. And even moderate consumption increases the risk of mouth, throat, voice box, oesophagus, bowel, liver and breast cancer.

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Fellowes321@reddit

Yes and if you don’t drink and don’t smoke, you will die of something else. In the remaining time I have I will do things I enjoy, including a drink. I could monitor my heart rate, blood pressure, glucose levels, levels of stress hormones, the calories and caffeine I consume and the miles walked per day or I could talk shit with friends in a pub and drink a pint. One of those makes me happy.

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RelevantAnalyst5989@reddit

Wouldn't smoking **sensibly** mean you are doing it outside and away from others. Feels like an unfair comparison to put a caveat on drinking when comparing the harm to smoking.

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EuroSong@reddit

In theory, yes it would. But I have yet to witness any evidence of such practices in reality.

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RelevantAnalyst5989@reddit

You've never seen someone go outside and smoke a cigarette by themselves?

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Previous-Hope-5130@reddit

There was a report from WHO in 2023 or 2024, that's every single dose of alkohol is harmful to body. Besides that drinking "sensible" is a very vague term, as this is very subjective opinion.

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EuroSong@reddit

That may be do - but the point is that it differs from smoking in that alcohol doesn’t poison the very air around people not consuming it.

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No_Calligrapher9732@reddit

I can see it being banned in places like Blackburn, Dewsbury etc with high Muslim populations

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RainbowPenguin1000@reddit

The number of younger people drinking is reducing already so the numbers are likely to drop. It will never go away completely but it’s going to become less and less a part of “normal” society.

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SentientWickerBasket@reddit

Mate. They're taking coke instead. *That's not an improvement.*

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RainbowPenguin1000@reddit

Sure. Every younger person who doesn’t binge drinking is doing coke. Ok.

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Ok-Cauliflower-7760@reddit

Yeah because they're all on other drugs instead lol

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Harrry-Otter@reddit

Presumably there’s no guarantee that will remain the case though. These things tend to come and go, it’s quite possible that future generations might look at their teetotal mums and dads and take a different path and be another generation of party animals.

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Fellowes321@reddit

I can’t grow tobacco but I can make beer. Banning alcohol will lead to more harm from home brews or home distilleries. My drinking does not affect you if I sit next to you in the pub. My smoking will. Alcohol is harmful but remove it and you create other demands. Cocaine use is already widespread in the UK for ABC social classes and spice is wiping out those at the bottom with cannabis common to all groups.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

I havent mentioned banning alcohol. They haven't banned cigarettes. Just made it expensive and awkward for smokers. I could never see them banning or removing alcohol but I just wondered, since it's a legal drug, whether it should or will get the same bad press that smoking has.

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ItsaGEO1994@reddit

A trillion times no.

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Suspicious_Juice9511@reddit

no. a lot more dangerous to light up

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Either_Apartment_795@reddit

Explanation Smoking Smoking costs society more than the amount of money the government raises from tobacco taxes. Smoking costs include lost productivity, healthcare costs, and social care costs. Alcohol Alcohol costs the NHS more per year in England than tobacco taxes raise. Alcohol costs include healthcare costs, social care costs, and emergency service costs. Examples In England, smoking costs society an estimated £43.7 billion per year, while tobacco taxes raise an estimated £6.8 billion. In England, alcohol costs the NHS an estimated £3.5 billion per year. In 2023/24, the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) estimated that alcohol duty revenue would be £12.6 billion.

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jizzyjugsjohnson@reddit

How much does alcohol cost the police?

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AnonymousBanana7@reddit

Don't know the cost but it's involved in over 50% of violent crime.

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nolinearbanana@reddit

"involved in"

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AnonymousBanana7@reddit

Yes?

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Suspicious_Juice9511@reddit

some country pubs they used to drink for free after hours. I may be old.

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Breakwaterbot@reddit

I think they pay the same for a pint as we do, mostly.

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Jeremys_Iron_@reddit

>Alcohol costs the NHS more per year in England than tobacco taxes raise Your own examples literally contradict this. How is £3.5m more than £6.8m?

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RelevantAnalyst5989@reddit

Yes, but now we have old people living into their 90's in care homes or having routine nurse visits. Clogging up GP appointments, etc. There's no way this doesn't cost a fortune. 20 years ago, people had a good innings and buggered off to the great beyond in their late 70's

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itsYaBoiga@reddit

Why are you comparing societal cost of one against NHS cost of another?

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Either_Apartment_795@reddit

I didn’t. That’s what came up when I googled. Which one costs more overall to society.

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itsYaBoiga@reddit

Estimates show that the social and economic costs of alcohol related harm amount to £21.5bn, while harm from illicit drug use costs £10.7bn. These include costs associated with deaths, the NHS, crime and, in the case of alcohol, lost productivity. Providing well funded drug and alcohol services is good value for money because it cuts crime, improves health, and can support individuals and families on the road to recovery. Still less, but much closer.

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RespawnUnicorn@reddit

I genuinely needed that explanation. I was worried they were talking about molotov cocktails. I'd say I'm not caffeinated enough, but I'm on my fifth 😭

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veryblocky@reddit

No. The main issue with smoking, as I see it, is the effects on others. Secondhand smoke can be just as bad for you as smoking directly, and more generally it’s very unpleasant to be around someone smoking.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

I think alcohol affects others too. Perhaps more so than cigarettes (open to debate). As in, you have a drink, then a bit more, get drunk, lose inhibitions, get into fights, drive, have unprotected sex...all these affect others worse than smoking, no?

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veryblocky@reddit

Yes that’s true (though I’m sure there’s an argument that alcohol doesn’t make people violent, they’re just violent people) Though fortunately for me, I’ve never been in a situation where alcohol has caused another person to be violent or aggressive to me. Whereas I have been affected by cigarettes. People drinking casually isn’t a bother most of the time, but even just 1 cigarette is deeply unpleasant to be around

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AnonymousBanana7@reddit

The main issue with alcohol is the effects on others. Its involved in 50% of violent crime and the majority of weekend A&E attendances. It's been consistently ranked in comparison studies across countries as, by far, the most harmful recreational drug to people around the user.

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nolinearbanana@reddit

The cigarette culture has been decimated by a series of rulings that made it increasingly less social and more expensive to smoke and this was welcomed by many smokers who often want to quit. Alcohol consumption is falling because of people's choices. It's also getting more expensive to go out and get pissed so we are moving towards a more continental style social life In short there is no need to demonise alcohol. Side note - the line "no amount of alcohol is good for you" is extremely misleading. It implies that any amount of alcohol is bad for you, but in medicine, the dose makes the poison. One glass of wine a week that correlates with an increased risk of heart disease of 0.01% would be evidence for the aforementioned claim, yet nobody would really care about that tiny increased risk. I'm not sure what the actual figures are, but alcohol in moderation is not seen as SIGNIFICANTLY harmful, while cigarettes in moderation (whatever that is? 5 a day?) ARE harmful.

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pikantnasuka@reddit

I think young people now drink a lot less than my generation. When I was a teenager and then a student, our entire social life was about drinking as much as we could as often as possible. Uni ran things like the beer race (dress up, visit a series of pubs, have a drink in each of them with a stamp to confirm it, try and be the first team to get to the club at the end)- I don't see that sort of thing happening now, at least no official, sanctioned and organised by universities, versions of it. But I think humans will always use alcohol and other mind/ mood altering substances to some degree, because it is often very enjoyable indeed.

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Other_Exercise@reddit

Probably not quite. Smoking is a relatively new thing. It only really got big here in the 1600s. Alcohol? 12,000 years.

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Equivalent_Age8406@reddit

I dont think it got really big until after WW1. Before that for most people it was like a cigar and brandy after dinner, so most people probably didnt die from that. The war was the start of everyone smoking 20 plus cigarettes a day and we figured out it was bad for you pretty soon after that.

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BeardedBaldMan@reddit

Beer is pretty much as old as civilisation while smoking is a relatively recent fad. You'd be looking at removing so much culture and industry that I can't see it happening in the next fifty years.

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AnonymousBanana7@reddit

How old do you think cannabis, opium and psilocybin mushrooms are?

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

Party at your house?!

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jaymatthewbee@reddit

Beer and bread, before we understood what yeast was civilisation developed where alcohol fermented. It was seen as a gift from the gods.

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Economy-Judgment-754@reddit

People began smoking tobacco around 5,000–3,000 BC in the Americas. The practice was used in religious and cultural ceremonies

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TeaAndCrumpetGhoul@reddit

It's very ingrained. Maybe if they start putting pictures of what happens to your liver. Or a stomach pump.

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Competitive_Ad_5224@reddit

No chance. Way too engrained into western culture

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

But wasn't smoking as well? Genuine question as I dont know, but I suspect it was.

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

Cigarettes I believe only really became a big thing 20th century, which is where the mass health issue came from. Tobacco smoking goes back a lot further of course but at a smaller scale.

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terryjuicelawson@reddit

Thing about smoking is there is no real *point* to it. People don't smoke for the flavour, or have one or two then put it down for a while. People are addicted, they smoke daily and the same brand. Brands who have done everything in their power to make theirs very addictive and keeping people hooked. Once people break that link, they don't want it any more. Drinking can be a lot more of a passive pleasure, even if many people are obviously addicted in their droves. I'd compare smoking with something like the very strong white cider, not just booze in general.

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Intelligent-SoupGS88@reddit

To be honest there are a lot more non alcoholic drinks on the market now including branded versions of spirits, and some of these actually taste good. Younger generations are already statistically drinking less alcohol, so whilst I don't see alcohol being categorised quite the same way as smoking/vaping, I do think alcohol consumption will go down.

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

I guess alcohol consumption will inevitably go do. As you say, you people are drinking less (think I saw the c.30% 16-25 year olds don't drink at all) so its a generational thing. As our generation die off (I'm in my 40s), alcohol consumption will decline. Not sure it will reduce as much as smoking though.

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TheDettiEskimo@reddit

Vapes are just as bad as ciggies and everyone knows alcohol is fucking bad for you they just don't care.

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Gauntlets28@reddit

Vapes definitely aren't as bad. They don't contain the tar or half as many carcinogens, even if they are as addictive if taken at the right dose. There's a reason they originated as an aid to quitting smoking. I agree with you about alcohol though. I think that most people see it as something that brings more joy than harm in moderation, like eating a Mars bar. Living life properly usually means enjoying things that are objectively unhealthy in one way or another, so why not enjoy good food and drink?

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TheDettiEskimo@reddit

They haven't been used long enough to know.

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Previous-Hope-5130@reddit

But you just said they are and now we don't know? 😅

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TheDettiEskimo@reddit

I mean they are awful the long term affects have not been discovered.

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Either_Apartment_795@reddit

Vapes can spike sugar levels in diabetics because of the sugars in the flavours. Also the release of metals, plastics and pesticides. Vaping isn’t as bad as smoking but depends on what your vaping.

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AnotherYadaYada@reddit

I saw a program/doc once where even lots of animals return to a spot once a year to eat the fruit from a tree/trees to get off their faces 😂 If the animals had to deal with traffic, calling up British Gas or getting a doctors appointment; I think they’d visit that tree more often. But to answer OP’s question…Should.

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Cockerel_Chin@reddit

I don't think it will. Alcohol (and other drugs to a lesser extent) are an important part of stepping outside our usual social programming and letting go a little bit. This is normal human behaviour and I don't think it's a bad thing, though obviously too many people take it to extremes. I do feel like irresponsible drinking has reduced a lot in the last 15-20 years, so that trend might continue.

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VolcanicBear@reddit

I'm someone who hates the stereotypical British drinking culture, but I can't see it happening, not would I really want it to. I believe all drugs should be legal and taxed, or at least decriminalised so people who need help can get it without risk of legal repercussions.

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roccoborro@reddit

You can make a decent amount alcohol at home, even almost by accident, but no chance the vast majority of people can make tobacco in quantities and quality they'd want to smoke. I think we're going to be drinking for a long while to come, but fashions change over long stretches of time, so how often/much we drink will probably vary over time too.

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Grim_Farts_Barnsley@reddit

Maybe but it won't go without a fight. You'll know it's started when big brewery multinationals start hiring PR companies and law firms to start lying about the negative effects of alcohol, just like the Phillip Morris group did when studies showed smoking causes cancer. Alcohol is ingrained more deeply into our culture than tobacco ever was though, so I doubt it'll ever go completely

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Dapper_Source1121@reddit

When Sharia law is implemented across the land it will be banned.

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Deep_Banana_6521@reddit

no. Alcohol and tobacco are very different. One is something we as humans have used since we existed to cope with life and the other is a plant that contains a drug that we no longer need to smoke to consume, which isn't as useful as alcohol to calm ourselves. It is a harmful vice, but there isn't an alternative yet.

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ClockworkSkyy@reddit

Never. Makes the government too much money.

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brynnafidska@reddit

Yes. I think it will eventually go that way. It will be a few decades away at least as the cultural shift is more extreme than cigarettes. £4.91 billion cost to the NHS and healthcare in England – such as hospital admissions and ambulance call-outs. £14.58 billion cost to the criminal justice system, police, and wider crime and disorder. £5.06 billion cost to the wider economy due to lost productivity – such as people missing work or being less productive at work. £2.89 billion cost to social services. TOTAL COST = £27.44bn Tax revenue from alcohol only raises around £12.5 billion each year This is from a study by the Institute for Alcohol Studies. You can read [here](https://britishlivertrust.org.uk/27-4-billion-cost-of-alcohol-harm-in-england-every-year/)

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just_some_guy65@reddit

It should do or at least the dangers be rationally discussed rather than the defensiveness from people who are definitely not alcohol-dependent, no not me.

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Either_Apartment_795@reddit

I think when a lot more of the population use cannabis based products as medicine from prescriptions, relax the law or even decriminalise it. Then alcohol use will slowly decline the same as in the US, Canada and even Thailand. Of course people will still have and enjoy a drink but if the odds were weighed up I say alcohol use is going to go down over time. I believe cannabis prescriptions will be the biggest hit to alcohol use in this time.

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Harrry-Otter@reddit

Can’t see it happening TBH, nor would I want it too. For one, alcohol has been around forever and is far more deeply ingrained in our culture than smoking ever was. Also the fact that a lot of the smoking message was around passive smoking and risks to others, which doesn’t exist in the same way for alcohol. Alcohol is also far less dangerous to health when consumed in moderation than smoking.

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YodasGoldfish@reddit

I work in the spirits industry. I sincerely hope not. UK Scotch Whisky exports were worth £5.6 billion in 2023 and employs thousands of people. I sincerely hope not .

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On_The_Blindside@reddit

I doubt it, its far more a part of or society, and in general it's no where near as addictive as smoking, or as damaging. It's easy to go weeks, or months, without drinking if you want to.

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TapeDeckSlick@reddit

I hope not

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woolyweasel@reddit (OP)

Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm by no means a big drinker, but enjoy going to the pub with mates even if im not drinking. I think it would kill off the industry completely and perhaps that's why they not talking about it.

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TapeDeckSlick@reddit

The industry is already suffering enough you're right it would do a lot more damage culturally, economically and mentally

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subtlevibes219@reddit

It’s not happening. Low to moderate use might not be good in the sense that it improves anything but it can be safe. Sure, “it’s poison” but at certain amounts your body handles the poison just fine. Then there’s a net positive from the social aspect of drinking.

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FarroFarro@reddit

I don't think so, beer and the pub are far more ingrained in our national identity

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one_pump_chimp@reddit

I think it should, and I think to some extent it is. Will it become a total social cancer like smoking, I doubt it.

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moonweedbaddegrasse@reddit

Hopefully I will be long gone before that happens.

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