PSI is trash
Posted by Reasonable-Track-890@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 76 comments
Sorry, just going to vent for a minute. The login process for psi is so terrible. Entered correct password one time, says it’s wrong and locks me out, call and told to wait an hour then reset password, done, locked out again, over and over and over again. Two years of taking these ridiculous written exams and every single time I have to go through this BS, who in the faa was dumb enough to agree to using them to proctor exams??? Don’t even get me started on the experience of going to an actual psi location for a test, the weirdos that work there act like you’re about to enter a SCIF at the pentagon.
cl_320@reddit
For both my instrument and commerical ground, I got there and no one was there (and no one ended up showing up)
chazholder@reddit
🤣🤣🤣
ImmediateRutabaga603@reddit
This happened to me yesterday while I was trying to sign up for my FIA exam. I had to use Firefox to enter because it kept logging me out and not letting my account work. I was able to take it today and got a 95 thankfully!
Reasonable-Track-890@reddit (OP)
Awesome, Congrats! I ended up just waiting an hour, resetting the password and waiting an additional hour and got in… Great job on your FIA! Did you use Sheppard for it?
ImmediateRutabaga603@reddit
Thank you! And yes I’ve been using Sheppard since I took my IRA. It’s just the best and I’ve never scored lower than an A while using it.
cazzipropri@reddit
The problem is sole suppliers.
Every time there's no competition, the one supplied does whatever they want without pushback.
Av8tr1@reddit
This! I looked at filing a lawsuit through AOPA for the government giving a monopoly to this company but couldn’t get anyone to bite. PSI is a major advertising client of theirs.
DannyRickyBobby@reddit
It’s more like Always Over Paying no Action. They always seem to have money to advertise and ask for money but then when you need them for anything they give you a list of attorneys that are too busy or not interested in even hearing you out without you spending more of your own money even though your paying them for a supposed legal plan.
cmmurf@reddit
A monopoly is advertising? 🤔
Indistinguishable from hush money.
Av8tr1@reddit
No, PSI has a monopoly on pilot testing enforced by the FAA. That is not legal.
The advertising is unrelated to the monopoly but is likely why AOPA would not pursue it. PSI gives AOPA a lot of advertising dollars so bringing suit against them and the FAA would cause them to lose PSI and their advertising dollars so they declined.
cmmurf@reddit
The advertising revenue surely incentivizes AOPA to not publicly criticize PSI.
I don't like either arrangement.
But I'm not sure why you think the monopoly isn't legal. There are many examples of the government extending exclusive contracts.
Av8tr1@reddit
Antitrust laws prohibit conduct by a single firm that unreasonably restrains competition by creating or maintaining monopoly power. The FAA has given PSI the sole source contract to provide pilot testing.
brucebrowde@reddit
If it's that clear, wouldn't it be rather easy to find some other (i.e. non-AOPA) lawyer to take the suit?
Av8tr1@reddit
The entire reason for AOPA membership is industry representation for the GA community. This is what I pay dues for to lobby for the betterment of the industry.
I am not interested in funding a lawsuit that has little to personal bearing on me. I've taken every written I can ever take as both a GA and professional pilot. I have taken every written up to and including ATP (although I will probably get my SEL ATP at some point I am not required given I have taken the MEL ATP).
It does me no good to pursue this for myself but it if helps any other upcoming pilot to have competition, thus lower costs in the required written tests and better customer service I am happy to lead the effort. But I am not going to pay out of pocket for this. But I would be happy to be the lead plaintiff in a suit.
brucebrowde@reddit
Right, but going back to it being an apparent slam dunk, why wouldn't someone want to start a class action and swim in sweet dough in a few years? Not necessarily a single lawyer even, perhaps some law firm that still has enough money to sustain this effort for a few years?
Av8tr1@reddit
That isn't the way these things work. This isn't a huge slam-dunk windfall for a law firm. The recovery is minimal, hourly fees most likely but would be industry-changing.
Right up AOPAs alley and the whole point of their existence.
brucebrowde@reddit
Interesting. I thought the whole purpose of class action suits is to provide incentive to lawyers to sue because they will benefit from it. E.g. if they can get 10,000 harmed pilots to join the suit and they win $X, then they can get idk 50% of $X and everyone is happy (except PSI, but that's the goal).
Av8tr1@reddit
No, class actions are really just to combine multiple plaintiffs to ease the burden on the court. The plaintiffs never really get much except the named plaintiff. All the members of the class action usually get hosed with some small benefit that isn't worth it. Class actions are rarely good for anyone but the law firms on both sides.
The issue here is there is no real financial reward to make it worthwhile. All that is going to happen is the government will be (hopefully) forced to allow more than one test provider. The industry benefits from the competition.
brucebrowde@reddit
OK so class actions work like I thought - if a lawyer convinces 10,000 pilots to file a suit, he can be the plaintiff, get the lion share of the money and give the chump change to each of the pilots. So he has monetary compensation and pilots get the moral compensation (i.e. helping the next generation of pilots). Win-win, right?
Why would there be not enough monetary compensation here for the lawyer? I thought monetary damages against monopolies can be juicy, no?
Av8tr1@reddit
Not in this case no. They would be suing the government to change its ways. There is no real financial loss like a class action against a bank or manufacturer.
Pilots are not going to get money back because they got what they paid for. They were just forced to use the sole approved government source.
No big or even small reward other than the lawyers get their hourly fees "if the judge approves". And that's a big if.
brucebrowde@reddit
Well that's a shame that there's no reasonable recourse against monopolies which obviously, having a lot of resource for that very reason, lobby against them being dethroned.
bob152637485@reddit
While I agree with you, just to play devil's advocate...
You could potentially make the argument that it's an oligopoly rather than a monopoly, since you could MAYBE make the argument that it is being controlled/enforced by the government themselves.
tomdarch@reddit
Does PSI actually do anything to maintain a monopoly? Or is it just a market that is small enough no one else wants to break in? (Yes, I know they do more than aviation. I paid a lot for the rounds of multiple tests for my professional license.)
Av8tr1@reddit
There used to be another company that was put out of business as a result of PSI getting the contract. I think PSI bought out the remains after they went bankrupt.
tomdarch@reddit
Pearson is still around. I want to say it was something like Thompson or some similarly generic name.
Av8tr1@reddit
It wasn't Pearson. But I can't remember the name of the company. I took a couple of my written there years ago. I'll see if I can dig it out of my files of old test results.
mustang__1@reddit
just wait till you see how good privatizing ATC will be! (⊙_⊙;)
Mazer1415@reddit
For profit = more fees + less service
cazzipropri@reddit
Contruct-run towers are already shit today.
cmmurf@reddit
Sound like a sovereign granting a fief.
JediCheese@reddit
It was trash when they allowed several different testing centers. I never had a bad test experience, but it definitely wasn't smooth.
poptart2100@reddit
And it’s so prevalent across all of aviation: legislated monopolies as a result of lobbying and overregulation. Test proctoring, approved AME/HIMS, part manufacturing and right to repair/modify…just what comes to mind initially. It’s killing GA and reveals a problem plaguing all of aviation.
smuggyyy@reddit
I've had similar odd experiences. I was told I needed to bring a government ID with an address on it. Told them, that is not possible as a European, because most Europeam countries do not put addresses on IDs.
So I was told I couldn't take the exam. I pushed and pressed, got sent from one to another. And eventually got a person that told me I needed to provide a utility or a credit card bill. Again, I am a European I can't get a credit card here and I do not pay for my utilities, so no go there. I am also not registered here as a student visa is non-migrant so you retain citizenship abroad and registration as well.
Eventually managed to get them to agree that by 'extreme exception' my student pilot license would get accepted in addition to my passport. As the FAA puts the address you are staying at during studies on there.
The exam went fine, staff on site were friendly, but it did give me very big monopoly vibes. Old PCs, taking tens of minutes to boot, folding chairs and just sitting in a room with 6 others and barely any separation between students.
Competition is needed.
N40189@reddit
ETS Educational Testing Service just acquired PTS. So do not expect things the get easier just stricter.
wingedRatite@reddit
PSI gave an AMT General students two questions from the PPL test. I don't think a mechanic needs to know how to recover from an "aileron roll"
bob152637485@reddit
That's honestly hilarious, not gonna lie!
jaynon501@reddit
I couldn't register for a test because I hadn't filled out two bits of info on my psi profile. In no way did the website make it clear I had forgotten to answer these questions and the help line couldn't figure it out. it took about a week before a higher up looked at my account and called me back to help...
Why is there only one way to sign up? let me do it over the phone. You can verify all my info that way too.
Don't get me started on the authentication app either
bob152637485@reddit
The trend of putting MFA on everything nowadays in general is getting really old, honestly.
Once upon a time, you didn't even need an email for many sites to sign up. If you forgot your password and/or recovery questions, tough luck I guess!
Gradually, it became the norm to require an email to sign up for websites, to the point where you are pretty much required to have an email address if you didn't already.
Now, we are at the tail end of the transition to requiring phone numbers as well, to the point where you are pretty much required to own a cell phone in order to sign up for a website.
Meanwhile, we are now at the beginning of the transition to not only requiring a cell phone that can receive a text code, but specifically a smart phone that is able to have one of the main authenticator apps out there. Eventually smart phones specifically will basically be a requirement for everyone to own.
Makes you wonder what the next "thing" is going to be. I get that these are all things that everyone practically owns already, but the principle of requiring more of more from people in general is just not something I'm personally a fan of.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talks, rant over.
Shamrock132@reddit
The testing centers at flight schools or near airports are usually much better. I went to an official one because it was the only one with availability after finishing Shepherd Air, and they gave me the wrong testing supplement…. Only testing center where I’ve had to go through a metal detector too.
However, one local flight school stopped offering tests, I spoke to them and they said PSI reduced the amount it paid facilities per test, while increasing the cost of the exams. Wasn’t worth it for them to continue as a testing center.
InfinitePool@reddit
The cost part is 100% true. We don't make anything off of it that's worth running it. We mostly do it as just a service for the students.
Good-Cardiologist121@reddit
They gave me a pen, not a pencil. Was not supplied paper.
DinkleBottoms@reddit
If you leave a comment in the survey, the test center gets hit for that and lose their ability to proctor tests if they get enough of them.
Good-Cardiologist121@reddit
Did
MunitionGuyMike@reddit
Duh, you’re supposed to use your arms. Save the environment bro
tomdarch@reddit
Bare arms is a god given right!
californiasamurai@reddit
True, unfortunately this is the only way to take it. I genuinely wish there was another way. The lack of consistency across testing centers is a problem also
brucebrowde@reddit
What is inconsistent?
californiasamurai@reddit
Good example would be quiet/soundless with insulation vs room with metal chairs, or allowing E6b and not allowing e6b, different accomodations, etc.
Positive-Size-6207@reddit
psi is some ass honestly went for my CFII and got rejected cause i needed an endorsement even tho it isnt required
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
This is definitely user error for the log on issues. There’s not a huge need to be super secure, so put a simple password or use a password manager to save your password.
As far as proctors go, I’ve had best luck when you no to locations at an FBO or near pilot mills. Even if they’re not the closest center, the drive is worth both having to plead or get hassle for bringing external tools into the facility since they’re regularly accustomed to it. The generic PSI testing facilities are the worst
tomdarch@reddit
I took my PPL written at a small aviation museum. The proctor is a pilot. Chatted about instrument training after I finished the test.
EHP42@reddit
Yeah, I picked a testing facility at a towered airport with a few different schools (including a 141) and some flying clubs, even though it was a little farther than the closest test facility to me. I did it unconsciously, but it makes sense that they'd be better at administering a test they give way more often than a generic test facility.
BenMW95@reddit
Their website gave me an error and wasn’t letting me reschedule until less than 24 hours. I called and they were absolutely no help. Had to dispute the charge. Thank God for AMEX.
ltcterry@reddit
This was a complaint to the FAA rep at the NAFI Summit this week.
lil_layne@reddit
A PSI examiner didn’t allow me to use an FAA approved E6-B calculator for my instrument teat. Somehow there was no supervisor at the facility either.
Kemerd@reddit
Honestly, brought my E6-B and didn't use it once during test
pilotshashi@reddit
The app has CX3 on the screen
californiasamurai@reddit
Report it, that's bullshit.
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
I forgot mine for the instrument test. If you use Shepard air, no big deal. Luckily they’ve also added the calc into the testing software as of fall of 2024. It looks and functions exactly like the ASA calc. It unfortunately does have a bug where you only get 10 characters per calculation. Just write the entire equation on your scratch paper then manually break it down into smaller equations
OkEfficiency3747@reddit
Why are you taking written exams so often?
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
PAR, IRA, CAX, FOI, FIA, FII… AGI, IGI if you so choose. Not always taking them back to back. All of mine were 8-12 months apart.
OkEfficiency3747@reddit
I had no idea so many writtens were required. Thank you
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
You only need 1 to fly. 1 additional for a job. Although you’ll be severely limited to your options. All tests/ratings after private/commercial increase employability
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
You’re forgetting IRA. I guess you could get your commercial without instrument.
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
I have several friends without their instrument and flying commercially! They only fly skydivers tho lol
You may be able to do pipeline, banner towing, and maybe crop dusting as well. But just private and commercial? There’s a very limited occupation pool. Still only 2 test if you REALLY don’t want to take all the written (just take the dang tests and get your ratings)
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. You’re not wrong. It’s something specifically taught in both instrument and commercial. It’s like its own segment of limitations.
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
I tried to help the downvotes by saying job and limited options. This sub sees airlines and corporate charter as the only viable careers. Everything else is a means to an end.
Honestly almost everyone should go private instrument then commercial. There’s roughly 150-200 hours between private and commercial, set aside half of those for the instrument rating. Get your moneys worth out of those hours
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
I read a big university 141 (don’t recall which) does private, commercial, instrument only because they don’t want their students going into IMC with 90 hours TT.
Acceptable-Wrap4453@reddit
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for admitting you learned something. Either way, yes. Lots of tests. I also forgot the ATP written exam. That’s just the written too. There’s oral exams. Practical exams. Then once you get a flying job there’s type rating exams then you have recurrent exams.
Lots and lots of exams. The entire career is just one exam after another.
FarNefariousness4371@reddit
I’m averaging 11 days between tests waiting for my check ride since the weather is shit here in the Midwest lol. Have my FII in 4 days and have no idea what to do after to fill the time till march/April when the clouds go away or the temps start to warm
wdfo@reddit
What
Clear4TakeoffR19er@reddit
I always thought it was hilarious how over the top secure it is for an easy written with all the questions easily accessible for 40 bucks from Sheppard, so your pentagon joke killed me.
mustang__1@reddit
biggest issue I had in 2009 when I took my PPL written was I couldn't stay the fuck awake on my drive there. Had to pull the off highway and nap for fifteen minutes - which was dangerous to the very small buffer I gave myself to get there before they closed/my appointment., I don't recall any issues at all with my IR in 2014.
0621Hertz@reddit
It was freezing in there and they told me to take off my hoodie because I can hide cheat notes allegedly.
lil_layne@reddit
The PSI examiner prohibited me from taking the test because she thought an endorsement from a logbook wasn’t valid. Somehow there was no supervisor at the facility.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Sorry, just going to vent for a minute. The login process for psi is so terrible. Entered correct password one time, says it’s wrong and locks me out, call and told to wait an hour then reset password, done, locked out again, over and over and over again. Two years of taking these ridiculous written exams and every single time I have to go through this BS, who in the faa was dumb enough to agree to using them to proctor exams??? Don’t even get me started on the experience of going to an actual psi location for a test, the weirdos that work there act like you’re about to enter a SCIF at the pentagon.
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