Has anyone successfully negotiated a transportation allowance?
Posted by mattD4y@reddit | ExperiencedDevs | View on Reddit | 35 comments
Common story, hired as a remote worker full time, hit with an email this week I will be required to help setup, and then report everyday to a new office in my city. This will result in a ~5.5% paycut pretax (calculations below)
Apart from the obvious of “look for a new job”, I wanted to hear from this sub if anyone has had success negotiating some sort of transportation allowance in a situation like this.
The only real data point i have on my side if the U.S Federal standard mileage rates (currently at $0.70/mile), which when I do the math according to where the planned building would be…
21.7 miles x 2 (both ways) = 43.4 x 0.70 = $30.38/day
$30.38 x 4 (days in office) = $121.52/week
$121.52 x 4 = $486.08/month
$468.08 x 12 = $5,832.96/year
$5,832.96 - ($30.38 x 10 holidays = $303.80) =
$5,529.16, final number
So, I’m obviously not expecting a corporation to randomly fork up an extra 5.5k a year just because they are forcing me to go in the office, but literally ANY sort of transportation compensation would be preferred.
Has anyone successfully negotiated this? If so, what do you think helped, and if you tried and failed, I would also appreciate hearing about those experiences as well.
Thank you
CubicleHermit@reddit
I would need a much larger pay increase to convert to 4 days on-site.
If I'm not f---ing up the math, that being 5.5% pay cut, means your current salary is about $100k?
And your current responsibilities are "Currently the tech lead, architect, and sole front-end contributor at this company (60+ employees). We have one other back-end developer I lead." That's senior, at least, arguably staff or whatever senior+ is called where you are.
Then there is a very high likelihood that you are grotesquely underpaid, even if you are in an LCOL area.
First, if you are NOT looking for your next job, start looking for a new job immediately - you don't have to take one if you can get it, but it might lead to something you want to take, and even if not will give you a much metter sense of the market than speculating
Second, separate from job search, start trying to find evidence of what other places are paying and why you're indispensible to argue for a market rate salary.
If they actually want to keep you, something like $125-130k is still like VLCOL is still a very realistic wage and you should be pushing for a market adjustment to at least that. Starting for seniors in bigtech are going to be ~$150ish, plus any bonus/equity (which tend to have "rest of country" zoning with no difference between MCOL/LCOL/VLCOL, usually 20-25% off their anchor market salaries and 25-50% off the anchor market equity.)
ategnatos@reddit
Good point. Company paying $100k to senior guy is not going to give 5%+ raises or transportation allowances.
Crafty_Class_9431@reddit
Regardless of negotiating an allowance, your numbers are actually 500ish out...
121.52 per week x 52 weeks = 6319.04
6319.04 - 303.80 (10 days holiday) = 6015.24
ategnatos@reddit
Also assumed (a) they track attendance every week, even the December weeks when no one's around, and (b) no PTO is taken (assuming holidays = federal holidays).
ategnatos@reddit
how much are you saving from reduced electric costs at your home due to less WFH?
also, you're ignoring that a month has more than 4 weeks. Still, at my company I'd estimate I have 7 weeks off between PTO and holidays (may be more nuanced if you have to be in the office certain days of the week). This makes it more like $455/month on average.
But look at your TC, and look at your alternatives. If a new job means a $50k pay cut, don't even worry about it. Ask them if they can provide some commuter benefits (company shuttle, some subsidized or pre-tax money towards Amtrak, etc.).
Agree with other commenter. Mileage rate is pretty high. Calculate your gas costs, probably somewhere around $20-40/week (if you have a horrible gaz guzzler, that's a choice you made). Add in annual maintenance and maybe another $50/month on average (unless it's an older car and then maybe a bit higher).
DeterminedQuokka@reddit
The only thing I’ve ever seen a company offer for someone who drives is pretax parking. But you still have to you know pay it pretax.
rayfrankenstein@reddit
So work \~5.5% less. The first 30 minutes of every morning at work will be spent watching funny cat videos.
MinimumArmadillo2394@reddit
This is pretty laughable.
Paid $100k+ a year and can't afford to transport to work? For real?
Jaded-Reputation4965@reddit
Was your contract fully remote? Or were you just 'told' that?
Neverland__@reddit
I think your employer will laugh at this
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
I don’t disagree, but I would rather them laugh at me, then me just take the pay-cut with no negotiations whatsoever
Neverland__@reddit
90% of people commute to work. This reads as just cheap to me. Do teachers and nurses get a travel allowance?
I agree with the other comments re the framing is way off
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
I think this is an unfair comparison, most teachers, and almost all nurses, are not hired under the guise of indefinite remote work.
If you agree to commuting to work when you accept that job, that’s on you, I never agreed to commuting.
How is it cheap to take a random 5.5% paycut?
wwww4all@reddit
You don’t have to work at such company.
There are other companies.
CubicleHermit@reddit
In some industries, employers are free to shuffle you between locations at their convenience.
Both teachers and nurses tend to have a huge difference in security between ones who work for a unionized facility (usually a public/private difference for teachers, much more unpredictable for nurses) and in some cases whether they're in a "right to work" state.
I wish we had unions in tech.
During the dot-com bust (fall 2001), the company I was then working dropped our salaries all 20% (with a floor, but the floor was well below the 80% mark for any California-based engineers.) They gave us penny shares to make up for 6 months of the cut, which would match the cut amount if the stock at a dollar at the 6 month mark.
At the 6 month mark, they did not give us any more equity and dropped our salaries by another 5%. :) I was already set on going back to grad school that fall, so I didn't care a lot.
Fun times. Same company had in the very early part of that year said "we have no more money for raises, so everybody gets a title bump instead" - which is why I got a senior title in less than 2 years from graduating.
I didn't have the stones to put that on my resume until I was a few years out from being done with grad school, but it is on my resume these days.
Neverland__@reddit
It’s your framing and it’s not a pay cut. That’s in your mind
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
While yes, technically on paper, I am not receiving less pay, my company is requiring me to, again, at random, spend an extra 5.5k a year, exclusively for work, that I previously did not have to spend.
What would you consider that?
Neverland__@reddit
Ask for a pay rise to compensate and update the post if you are successful. I would be happy for you. Very unfortunate and I would also be pissed off. In my mind, it’s not the $$ math, it’s more the time I’d be most off it about. Lost hours from life that you’ll never get back. We work in a labour market, you are also free to leave the job
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
Thank you, seriously appreciate the conversation and input.
I’ll update this post whenever I talk with them, which would be more than likely early next week.
wwww4all@reddit
You keep showing up to work everyday, the company doesn’t negotiate with people that show up everyday.
Get offers from companies that need and want you to come into work.
When you git gud, you can negotiate anything
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
If you want a raise, ask for a raise.
Asking for a mileage allowance is a request to have a unique compensation package for yourself. That’s unlikely.
But a change in compensation (a raise) is standard practice.
simfgames@reddit
I don’t think it helps your case to break it down in terms of transportation costs. I think you’d have a stronger negotiating position if you just kept it simple, like, “work from home was a big part of the draw for me, so if we’re going to change that I’m going to need a sizeable raise.
Odds are they’ll still say no, but it seems stronger to me.
wwww4all@reddit
Get other job offers for higher salary.
originalchronoguy@reddit
I rather have higher base pay than a car allowance. I was given a car allowance to lease any cars under $700 a month for 10 years.
Early on my career, i thought it was a good fringe benefit but like pizza rewards lunch. It was simply a distraction to hide the fact i was underpaid.
reshef@reddit
If you were hired remote you can argue this is constructive dismissal.
You pursued the job BECAUSE it was remote most probably, right?
I’d just begin job hunting with the assumption they’ll be unreasonable but let them know you absolutely wont be coming into office but will continue to fulfill every responsibility of the role previously agreed to.
But absolutely make them fire you.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
In most countries “constructive dismissal” is only useful for getting unemployment checks, which are going to be much smaller than an engineer’s salary. It’s also much harder to win constructive dismissal cases than Reddit makes it sound. I have yet to see anyone successfully argue constructive dismissal for RTO.
reshef@reddit
It’s less a “here’s a viable alternative to working” and more “yeah you hired me as remote and you’re changing the agreement, so how about we not since we both like that I work here?” It’s a point of leverage.
Like if you get hired as a SWE and then the job changes to “you are now an IT guy on phone support” you’re also going to be like “hmm that wasn’t the job I applied to?”
I have seen multiple employers say “alright you’re an exception” to developers who basically said “is my being in office worth the cost of replacing me?”
Asking for a raise is, in my experience, a tougher sell than “what if neither one of us had to change anything?”
And asking for a raise when your ONLY leverage is “you’re making me do something I don’t wanna” is a really tough sell, if you don’t have some solid points of leverage I’d forget about it and move on.
SheriffRoscoe@reddit
True. But front-line employees rarely have a CD clause in their employment agreements, if they even have one.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
Constructive dismissal is usually used in the context of getting unemployment checks.
Going from employed as an SWE to unemployed and maybe getting unemployment checks (if the case succeeds, which is unlikely) would be a huge compensation cut, so it’s not actually a victory. I don’t know why it’s being suggested as a solution.
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
Agreed, I have zero plans currently of leaving/pursuing a CD.
Would much rather keep this job, was just trying to figure out how I could make this hurt less, financially speaking.
casualPlayerThink@reddit
I don't know if it counts, but when I always consider the travel expenses during the salary negotiation, I drop in extras, like public transport or parking fees, or ask for parking lot possibilities.
I am using this openly to test the place and how they will threaten me or any expense. If a company refuses to even talk about it, then how do you expect them to talk about a career or yearly salary bump?
Curious_Leather4665@reddit
Could easily be - "Has anyone successfully negotiated a inner city cost of living allowance"
Point being - I see alot similarly themed arguments around RTO, and while I understand the desire and reasoning, this type of argument is problematic in that they're justified against some social 'responsibility' or 'duty' an employer has to work with your personal circumstances, which in reality doesn't exist.
They've no responsibility for where you live, how you get to work, or if you want to move, and how much any part of that costs. Those are decisions and trade off that land squarely in the 'your responsibility' side of employee/employer relationship.
However - They have changed your employment circumstances...
And so, if you have a good relationship with your employer you can ask for flexibility and/or a raise directly to compensate for the change in the deal - but the detail is irrelevant, leave it out, focus on that fact that the deal has changed, and the value proposition is different for yourself now. You need to have them believe you'll leave, but on first rounds, do not say this specifically.
If that works - great, if it doesn't you can move onto directly suggesting that you'll look elsewhere. However, only do this if you actually are willing/capable/employable enough to actually follow through.
mattD4y@reddit (OP)
Thank you, I can see and for sure agree with you and other commenters about going for compensation adjustment.
I do think this will be a better avenue for me to go down. Currently the tech lead, architect, and sole front-end contributor at this company (60+ employees). We have one other back-end developer I lead.
I also found out after posting this that the plan is for me to start leading new developers (whenever they are hired) at this new office space, which usually implies an increase in compensation, I think this could help in negotiations for compensation increase.
travelinzac@reddit
I would just say no I was hired as remote. If we would like to reassess my responsibilities including setting up and attending an office space, then increase in responsibility dictates an increase in compensation.
They're going to tell you to cook rocks go find a new job. I wouldn't go into the office to single day though fuck them.
PragmaticBoredom@reddit
Mileage allowance for a single employee isn’t going to happen at most companies. This opens the door to claims of discrimination because some employees are getting compensated for mileage but others are not.
If you want a raise, you request the raise. You don’t need an excuse. You can tell them you like the job, that this raise is what you need to be satisfied with the change of working conditions.
Also, unless you’re driving a brand new luxury SUV with poor gas mileage and high depreciation, the federal mileage rate is going to be much higher than your actual costs. Do the math on your car and local gas prices. If you’re driving a reasonable commuter car the actual cost should be much lower.