Fellow US Expats, are you, or does anyone you know, work for a US company and receive a US market salary, particularly if the company lacks a location-agnostic compensation philosophy?
Posted by Minimum_Victory7446@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 68 comments
I'm an American citizen living in Australia - I've been here about 10 years. I've recently taken a fully remote software engineering role for a company based in the US at Australian 'cost-of-labor' rates as if I were a non-US citizen. This basically means I'm earning what a software engineer competes for in the Australian market.
It recently dawned on me that I can actually compete in the US IT job market for remote roles in the US - even for companies that do not have a presense in Australia. My company is US based, but hires Australians through an Australian arm of the company. So I've put forward a rationale for why I should be paid US market salary rates - focusing on double taxation (outside the FEIE), my ability to compete in the US domestic market, and equal contributions to my peers ( I lead a team of Americans who make twice my salary).
One of the things I'd like to provide is precedent - anyone else, any US expat like me who is working for a US company who is being paid at US market rates. Its particularly helpful if the company's compensation structure is not typically to be location agnostic - since I'm not trying to make the case that the compensation philosophy should change.
Are you a US expat working for a foreign arm of a US company but getting US market salary rates? If so, would you be willing to share your story?
mayfeelthis@reddit
I don’t know about now but back in the day the UN had a foreigner vs local salary scales, so if your company looked at it that way you’re US citizen and should get salary as a foreigner in Aussie vs having hired a local Aussie.
For the UN it wasn’t where you came from, but rather if you’re localised. So an American or any other citizen whose foreign get the international salary scale and locals get the local salary scale.
I am not advocating for any model but I’d tell you your company picked this model to leverage low cost of labour - they won’t change it or swallow their margin for you. Pick your battles and decide if you’d want to work for this company at all or find one that aligns with your vision/values. Why fight to be the exception in this company when you know others will hire remote at the salary you want? I’d feel weird about it knowing my colleagues didn’t get that.
As for your argument you can compete in the US markets - well go ahead then, they’re not keeping you back. I think it’s a bill point from a business case perspective. They can get the same value if work for less in Australia and that’s what they’re doing, your perceived competitive edge by being a U.S. citizen is yours to leverage and not theirs to fulfil.
zinjanthropus99@reddit
Are you able to be a digital nomad in Australia? If so, you can look at the 1099 route. Some European countries are open to digital nomads. The Nordic countries pay close to US standards.
Pale-Candidate8860@reddit
I worked for a company in the U.S. and they paid okay money. I told them I was moving to Canada and asked to work remotely. They said no, but that I can work for their Canadian branch once I get legal status. Once I got legal status, no interview or anything, instantly ready to be hired on. For 30% less than my U.S. position. I said f it and got a job for a different company in Canada that pays more(even more than the U.S. company did).
Adahla987@reddit
You get paid what the locals get paid; end of story.
You paid 2x for an old fashioned in Norway than you would have in Australia. That’s why people get paid less there… because things cost less.
Look at it the other way.
Why would HR want to deal with the repercussions of you making more than your peers in the same location?
why does a company have to subsidize your move?
you’re being hypocritical because if you then moved to a place that was more expensive you would absolutely complain if you weren’t paid the same as your peers.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
This is generally irrelevant to the current conversation and my position. I also think you should consider that people have histories a little more rich that what you're assuming to base your opinions on. This isn't a nomad-culture topic and I'm not a nomad. Relocating back to the United States is not an option for me and I didn't move to Australia to reduce my cost of living. I think once you've deeply considered that reality, you may come to realize that your opinions are generally nonsense.
I'll give you a hint - I moved to Australia 10 years ago long before I started working and now have deep family roots in both the US and Australia.
This conversation isn't about try to game any systems. Its about calibrating my compensation to be comensurate with my market value and account for double taxation standards imposed upon expats who make more than $126,500 USD per year. My Australian peers are not obligated to pay taxes to the US as I am, despite us all working for the same US company.
Adahla987@reddit
Your market value is Australia is what they would pay someone in Australia for the same work.
If you want to be an artist that tapes a banana on the wall and makes $6mio then you go right ahead and do that.
But telling us you expect USA wages OUTSIDE the USA means that you know nothing about global politics and economics.
Might I suggest
Steven Landsburg “Can You Outsmart an Economist?” (The answer to that is “no, OP cannot”)
Paul Krugman “The Age of Diminished Expectations” and “International Economics: Theory and Policy”. (By the way; this guy won the Nobel Prize for economics in 2008).
If you think you are smarter and have better ideas than the guy that won the NOBEL FREAKING PRIZE for international economics and economies of scale then I encourage you to write down your ideas and submit them for a Nobel or Pulitzer Prize.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I'm not here looking for advice on whether or not I might succeed or how markets are modeled in your mind - I don't really care what your opinion is. I'm certainly not interested in discouragement and pessimism, so please don't waste your time on that - its more valuable and you must have better things to do.
Feels like maybe you've had a rough time with this sort of thing yourself - unfair treatement and all that. If thats the case - I'm sorry for that. I'm sure you bring a lot of value, and you should be recognized for that.
I'll share my perspective on this, which seems different from yours. I operate (successfully) based on this model. Companies out there need to compete against one another for me just as I compete against other employees - and if other companies in the US are willing to pay me a US salary above what I'm currently earning - which there are - then thats the competition. And there is nuance given that I have different tax obligations than my non-expat peers.
The market behaves accoding to the position that I take on what I want, and what companies out there are will to give - where we're all making judgement calls on value and compensation. If my company doesn't budge, I make up my mind on whats best for me and my family. There are no 'rules' in this world. Just people constantly negotiating.
Adahla987@reddit
“I’m not here looking for advice on whether or not I might succeed or how markets are modeled in your mind - I don’t really care what your opinion is.”
My man…. You literally posted on r/expats looking for opinions.
I gave you an opinion backed up by actual scientific research and published documents. It’s great that you don’t agree with me but putting me down because science (and your own experience and the experience of every single person that has responded) isn’t agreeing with you isn’t a great way to foster discourse.
You look like a tool when you ask for opinions and then get upset when those opinions don’t match your world view.
tossitintheroundfile@reddit
I work for a U.S. company, European branch. When I transferred I had to negotiate the fuck out of my salary to stay close to what I had (it was a very slight cut).
But what I found was my now comparatively extremely high salary breeds resentment and I have been squashed flat when trying to do any further negotiation years later. I still have a boss based in the states and this frustrates the hell out of him because I’m a high performer. He wants to pay me appropriately.
But local / regional HR will not go above “their” set pay range, and anybody higher up with power either doesn’t care or doesn’t want to piss off other people in the region, or just don’t think women should make that much (yes I’ve been told this directly).
It doesn’t make any sense because the cost of living is just as high here as west coast USA (not downtown San Francisco or Carmel, but certainly Sacramento or Portland or outer Bay Area suburbs).
They’ve tried to make it up to me in other ways, but I’ve figured out the only way I’m going to be able to build wealth is with my own business on the side.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks very much for your response and your perspective. I'm sorry you've had to deal with such antiquted mentalities during your journey. I've traveled to Denmark for work and if Norway (from your comment badge) is anything like that, CoL is wild. I paid twice for an Old Fashion (drink) what I'd pay in Australia - where drinks are very expensive (compared to the US).
Thats a really good piece of experience I'm glad you shared - both breeding resentment, and difficulties with further negotiations. I too am a high performer (which is one of the reasons I feel confident undertaking this negotiation to start with) and share your sentiment about needing a side business.
If this were to go through, it would unlock so much other financial avenues I honestly think I might be willing to take a dramatic pay cut in the future (either at the same company, or through moving on to another company). My side business is building an investment property portfolio, and my core objective right now is to increase my cashflow to paydown my primary bad debts - even a temporary increase of the magnitude I'm striving for over a few years would make a profound difference and set me on shorter path to a place where I don't need the US equivalent salary.
So I think you're spot on - and I'm frustrated myself on your behalf just reading your story. I'm sure you deserver more, and I really appreciate you sharing this.
tossitintheroundfile@reddit
Thanks for your thoughtful response - and yep, a beer in Norway is $15. :)
With the Norwegian kroner taking a dive into the shitter, my salary is worth the least it’s been since 2012. And some people would say “but you are not in the U.S. anymore”. And that’s true - and I chose to be here.
But the fact remains that working for a global U.S. headquartered company means that I am also held to more U.S. expectations; rather than a Norwegian work culture of 37.5 hour workweeks, family-first, flat hierarchy, strong union representation (I am a member of a fantastic union, but my company doesn’t care since they are not Norwegian), etc.
I still get the benefits of a culture I like, awesome nature and adventure sports, safety and high trust, a great place to raise my kid, the rest of Europe close by (and relatively cheap). But the only player in this game that gets to have their cake and eat it too is my company.
I would just say that anyone thinking about trying to get ahead of the system is going to have to be both really good and really lucky to pull it off, and there are going to be challenges and consequences no matter.
OP you are likely on the right track with heading into your own business - although I could write most of a book on what it’s like to learn business laws, rules, and accounting systems in a difference language and country, as well as navigate filing all the taxes with the U.S.
rruler@reddit
I work as a contractor/freelance for US companies. I charge the US rate even though I’m remote. You could be a contractor for them at a US rate, or for any other company.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I've never contracted before - its a bit off topic, but I am curious about how this is done generally? Do you coordiate with a recruiter or something?
*sigh* Why are so many people downvoting this post - its just a question.
rruler@reddit
I set up a US-based LLC.
All companies deal with me on a 1099 basis with my LLC.
And yes I generally deal directly with the company recruiters / producers etc especially if we haven’t worked together before or if it’s a really large company.
I guess it depends on the industry. But I’m sure there’s freelance IT/Coders or contractors in your industry. It’s not very different from how you would approach applying for a new job, except you specify you’re a freelancer they can bring in when needed.
I have a day rate, capped at a total amount of hours (so that yields an hourly if they prefer hourly) and I simply invoice on terms we agree to
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I'm busting with questions for you. But please feel free to move on if you're not up to any more :D But I'll pose them anyways - I'm about 7 years into my career.
- How did you go about establishing relationships to get contracts? Just lean on recruiters and build a reputation?
- Is it lucrative?
- What type of work do you actually do? (I'm a software developer, mostly .NET, backend distributed systems, few years of frontend web (not mobile tho), but generally diverse skillset)
- Do you recommend it? How do you get into that? How do you manage it? How do you present yourself? (I'm not shy, great communicator on the job, confident, etc) Are you a certain type of person (if that makes sense)?
Thanks again for your previous responses and perspective. I really appreciate.
rruler@reddit
- I quit from a company that was well known in its field, and in those two weeks prior to me leaving I emailed every company I knew that would have known the one I was staff at, offering my services (compiled nicely on a website as well) with a day rate, and that I was available starting in two weeks (ending a project by that date)
I also contacted any freelancer I knew in my field, as my company also hired freelancers, and asked for any emails they could share. I specifically targeted freelancers that did not have my exact skillset, so i wasn't asking them to jeopardize their potential bookings.
- Its lucrative. Im very happy. I could probably earn more but I also like to take 2 months off a year, which in america is unheard of. I guess it also depends on what industry you're in. Some coders make like 500k a year, others make 65k a year. Its relative. But i was living in Manhattan with no problems before moving to europe.
- I produce visual content in the advertising and film industry. It's used in many businesses, also did stuff for some tech companies, crypto etc. Not to be misunderstood with social media and things of that nature, its more high end and a bit technical as well.
- I do. But i would say if you're title hungry you would go up the ladder faster staying staff. Also some projects are reserved for staff, so you might not always work on the best thing. I'm extroverted. But now im fully remote so really i guess im friendly in meetings? I get my shit done and i get it done right, I do think you're only as good as your last project for these companies in terms of getting hired back. So if you mess up you're probably not getting a second chance. So, its not always "super chill". But sometimes i do have really easy jobs that pay me really well and i only work partially in the day.
faulerauslaender@reddit
I think you don't really have an argument from a tax standpoint. Are you really "double taxed"? That's very unlikely. Given the somewhat higher tax rates in Australia it's unlikely you owe tax at all. Did you have to pay the IRS last year? You only owe at most the difference between US and AUS taxes to the IRS in case US tax is higher. Also, it's your private choice to live abroad.
You want to tell them you can compete on the US market, but you really can't unless you move back. At most you can compete on a small subset of the US market who are comfortable hiring you 100% remote as an external contractor with a massive time difference and paying the same salary as a local candidate. Your Australian colleagues could apply for the exact same jobs too, so there's nothing special about your citizenship here.
The fact that you're leading a team that earn significantly more than you is probably the best of the arguments you listed.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I think you should perhaps read some of the other comments here to learn about the various ways people are actually doing this.
faulerauslaender@reddit
I did read them. I'd also be very interested in doing the same, if it's possible. But as all the comments indicate, this is an exceptionally rare setup. About half the people seem to have achieved it via an internal transfer (doesn't apply to you, wouldn't apply to me either). The rest seem to be external contractors, which doesn't tend to require US citizenship, so you or I would be at no advantage for such jobs.
So I'm not sure what you're planning on arguing with them. The tried and true way would be to get an actual offer and see if they can match it, but it doesn't sound like this is an easy thing to do.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
As I've shared with others - this is not a perspective on the market that I share with you. I hold the perspective that I am valuable enough for companies to need to compete for me.
Its okay if you don't think like that, but that is how I think regardless of what you think.
I also believe what you're saying about how difficult it is or may be is completely irrelevant. I'm very good at my job, I believe in myself, and I don't let fear or uncertainty hold me back from pursuing my goals.
As I have said to others: tactful, professional enagarment with the conpany first, then explore the market if I chose to later (which I do every year or so anyways).
Be a little more optimistic! Why not think about moves?
Maybe contract work is the right direction.
Gotta realise too that not trying gets you nowhere. And get nowhere looses you potentially thousands in monthly cashflow that you can put towards investments.
faulerauslaender@reddit
Good luck then and go for it.
I'm already in Switzerland. The gap to US salaries is not very large. I'm not completely convinced that a remote contract with a US employer is the best way to build a long term career (not that it can't work!). The contractors in my company are basically temps, which isn't bad, but they aren't always around long enough to build meaningful relationships and they don't usually get to work on the good stuff. It's also a lot easier to build a professional network when you're local and established a bit.
If the salaries here were lower I might have a different perspective. And it's certainly helpful to know working as a remote US contractor is an option.
Why not just move to the US if salary is the top priority? That's what I would do.
Lysenko@reddit
Why would you be double-taxed? That Australia has higher taxes than the U.S. means that you will owe nothing after the foreign tax credit, and it shouldn't even be necessary to elect to take the FEIE (which is mainly there to protect low and middle-income Americans who live in low-tax jurisdictions.) Am I missing something?
MrJim911@reddit
My situation isn't exactly what you are looking for, but maybe it'll help.
When I was in the US I was a normal W2 employee for my software company. I wanted to escape the US and my company was ok with that.
They do not have any foreign branches.
I moved to Portugal. I had to become a 1099 because of no presence in Portugal. There was no change to my pay based on my new location. In fact they increased my "salary" by $10,000 to make up for no longer being eligible for company bonuses, stipends, etc.
My pay is based on the quality of my work, not where I reside.
R0GERTHEALIEN@reddit
Yeah that's really the solution he's looking for here. He needs to be a 1099 contractor directly to a US company. Then you could actually expect a small bump in pay as they won't have to offer benefits and payroll taxes. However, depending on the rules in AUS being a 1099 to a single US company could cause other problems if they consider you still an employee of that US company.
Eska2020@reddit
The global remote companies I know adjust salaries to the location of the employee.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks for sharing. I may look into such companies going forward.
Adahla987@reddit
Isn’t this what you are trying to avoid?
Aden1970@reddit
Agree, unless you are a local US hire and asked to relocate overseas. In that case you would receive a US salary in the US, and US benefits (401k, etc,), plus a local salary to cover a cost of living adjustment based on the country your company is asking you to relocate too.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
My company doesn't base salary on cost of living, they do based on cost-of-labor. In a fully remote context, my ability to compete in the US market from overseas drives up the cost for my employer to compete for me. I realize a lot of people don't take the perspective that companies compete for their employees, but imo thats not true - only people who don't think they are valuable might believe this. This is not me.
sertorius42@reddit
The biggest constraint to this would be getting a visa to live in that country. If you have the right to work/live separate from work (dual citizen, married to a citizen, etc.), then it would be easier to be a location-agnostic US salary earner. Otherwise, if you want to work for Amazon in the UK but don't have a UK visa or passport, Amazon may sponsor a skilled worker visa for you but is going to pay you a UK salary (i.e. half or less of a US tech salary).
I worked for the UK entity of a multinational company with HQ in NYC, had a visa sponsored, and earned a UK salary. They did throw some extra cash for signing and retention bonuses into my contract to somewhat offset the lower UK salary (I had never worked for this company before I started in the UK with them).
For US gov't personnel overseas, they receive their US salaries (and in many cases location adjustments for cost of living or hardship/danger). This would mean that US diplomats in London not only get free housing but also a US salary with a certain % added on top for cost of living.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Sorry, I mean I'm a US citizen living in Australia currently, and have for the past ten years. I currently work for a US based company.
sertorius42@reddit
Right, but do you have permanent residency there or is it tied to your work?
JeromeJGarcia@reddit
US citizen and I work in Moldova for a US tech company making a 6 figure US salary. Got a 20% raise last year in April while here and expect the same this year. Nothing to do here so it’s easy to save money for my kids in college. $36k+ last year and expect the same this year. It is boring here for me but heading back in May for a few concerts in Vegas at the Sphere (unreal place) then prob to Romania to open a new office.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks very much for your response. 6 figure is a bit vague to me - are you willing to share if its 100ks, 200ks? Sounds like you bring enormous value to the company. Do feel thats true? I make around the equivalent to 110 USD atm, whereas others in my role make twice that. I'm also curious about your taxes tbh. Moldova + US - expenses = 36k?
Amazing that youre willing to put up with the boring, but as long as you have your family hey.
JeromeJGarcia@reddit
“We’d have no contracts if it wasn’t for you” < my CEO I guess I bring value.
I’m divorced and here alone but the US passport is a huge green flag for the local ladies. It is culturally weird and I feel scuzzy when women 20 or more years younger are hitting me up on the apps but my local team says it is normal here for older guys to be with younger women. 36k cash to the exwife to pay tuition but happy to do that as it is my responsibility to my kids. US tax residence and I am just the American in the room here so no tax issues. I do buy lunches and snacks for the team somewhat regularly so that adds up to about $600 a month but happy to keep them happy.
formerlyfed@reddit
I work for a US company and I get paid 33% less than my counterparts in the Bat Area and NYC. But I get paid so much more than other Londoners that I don’t mind it. It’s just the way the market is.
I’ve only heard of what you want happening in two cases: 1. You’re a transfer from the US to abroad, and they’re moving you (eg it’s not a personal request) 2. You’re self employed, and you do work for multiple companies or people in the US. Then they normally pay you a set rate that is the same regardless of the location of employee.
Realistically, you’re not equivalent to an American employee, for a few reasons. 1. You’re either doing projects for the Australian market, in which case you’re earning them less money, or you’re working with US teams for projects for the US market, in which case they have to deal with the time zones and similar disruptions. This is a huge thing at our company. And 2. The US has the highest concentration of the world’s best software engineers and IT professionals. Those people share knowledge with each other and with others in ways that are difficult to replicate when you’re in a different country. I have no doubt I’d generate more value if I lived in the Bay Area, but I’m fine with getting paid what I do and living where I do. I would never accept my salary in the US, but it’s just a completely different frame tbh.
Still, there’s no harm in trying.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks for your thoughts
ItalyExpat@reddit
This is common even if you lived in the US. The salary offers in Kansas are far lower than SF bay.
They're paying you the standard salary for your area because from the employer's point of view, you're a commodity. Are you integral to their business succeeding? Would you leaving create a major disruption to their operations? If you're just a 9-5 backend developer you don't have a lot of leverage.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
This doesn't anwer the question I've posed.
And please don't downvote - this is a legitimate question.
Captain-Matt89@reddit
What he’s saying is you don’t fucking matter and if you don’t like it quit and go somewhere else, at that point you’ll quickly realize your value
expats-ModTeam@reddit
Be nice to each other. Uncivil conduct, ad hominem attacks, etc. will result in up to 3 warnings and then a temporary ban. Violent, racist, homophobic, sexist, or generally bigoted attacks and content will be dealt with immediately with a ban of a week or more.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I'm aware of what he's saying and that its an opinion a lot of people and companies hold - its just not relevant to the question. As I shared with someone else here:
Thats comes later. The market is for me to play - not them. So to work with the company, I use tact. Failing that, I explore and test the market. There is no need to burn any bridges over how the market behaves.
Polaroid1793@reddit
It seems you are employed for the Australian branch. To get the US salary abroad, you cannot be an employee, you need to work as a contractor selling them your services.
ItalyExpat@reddit
I'm not downvoting you as it's a legitimate feeling you're experiencing. My comment is to help you change your perspective and ask the right questions. If you want to make a US salary in an area where the average salary is less than half, you need to be exceptional. You need to provide value to the employer. The same exceptional that in SF Bay would get you the $1MM salary instead of $400k.
To answer the unimportant question, yes I get paid US rates while living abroad. There's no one tip or trick I can offer other that it's helped to be a contractor vs an employee.
akie@reddit
Companies will pay you what they can get away with. If they can get away with paying you less, they will. You need to make this a business decision for them.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thats comes later. The market is for me to play - not them. So to work with the company, I use tact. Failing that, I explore and test the market. There is no need to burn any bridges over how the market behaves.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I find hilarious that this has on average 3 downvotes. Folks - please reconsider your approach to your careers. They are living things - you need to grow them and try not to damage them.
dmada88@reddit
I started on the expat merry go round in 1989 (yeah I’m semi retired now!) and I’ve seen all flavors as HR consultants came and went. When I started and through about 2000 it was gravy: us salary plus cost of living up tick (never down) plus expat benefits. After 2000 the whole philosophy changed away from what was basically a colonial idea that US/UK held the basis of all wisdom. Now companies look more closely at the why - why are you where you are, why are they paying for your particular skills. If you are lucky enough to have skills that aren’t common in the place where you’re posted, you can get a US plus package. But if there are plenty of Australians who could do your job or hong kongers or whatever - then you will be looking at a local base commensurate with the particular post (senior coder, managing director, department head) with some kind of acknowledgement that you bring something new to the table - head office experience, English native speaker abilities, X years experience etc. But the trend is definitely to bring expat and local packages as similar as possible keeping skills, abilities, seniority constant. The more special you are, the better you can negotiate- that’s always the case.
lunaticlabs@reddit
I live in Germany as a US citizen, and received US rates for my full time engineering work for US companies. I don't make what I would make in Los Angeles, but I make far more than market rate here. When I got hired, I negotiated a market rate salary. My initial offer was at German market rates, and I told them I would not accept the offer. They gave me a new one at USA rates. The caveat to this was that I was already doing contract work for them at US rates, so I had a fallback.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks for sharing. I think this is a great example to share - and could be where we land. I would prefer full US rates of course, but things will play out on the market as they will.
lunaticlabs@reddit
Negotiate for sure. The way these things work is there will be too many cooks in the kitchen, so someone local will try and adjust it. I luckily had leverage to push back, but one thing that was apparent was that there wasn't necessarily intent behind the screw up. Someone at a local office was directed by someone in the US to make a competitive offer, and their definitions were drastically different. I was the one to reconcile it, but there wasn't any intent behind it that I could tell. It just meant I had to have uncomfortable conversations as I pushed back.
There was lots of hand wringing about skewing local salaries, etc, but since I could always fall back to contracting (with the same company) their offer was ridiculous.
Your situation may vary so modify as needed, but do not be afraid to negotiate, and don't be afraid to propose solutions (I can start an llc in the USA, you can contract them, I'll handle local payment as an example). People will often say no just because they have no motivation to seek alternatives. You do however, so make it easy for them to hire you.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
What fantastic advice.
Similar thoughts have crossed my mind - offering to open a US bank account to make the accounting easier and keep the whole thing partitioned from the Australian portion of the employee workforce. Sort of make it difficult for others to try following the same footsteps kind of thing.
I really appreciate the advice and your perspective.
elijha@reddit
I do, but it’s so exceptionally rare that I feel like I’m basically getting away with highway robbery.
In 99.99% of cases, you do not get to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to live in Australia, you have to be prepared to take an Australian salary. No, it isn’t really fair, but salaries—like many things in life—are not about fairness. If you’re really that upset by your salary, put your money where your mouth is and compete on the US market for a new job
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Either way, I think it sounds like you're doing great - both for yourself and for your company. If I am providing at least as much value to my company as you do to yours, then there is no reason your precendent can't at least support my objectives. Sounds to me like you're a great model for this nuanced scenario.
Do you mind sharing what company this is for? Or expanding on the circumstances a little more?
I appreciate your perpsective. I may explore other options, but the first step I'll take is to tactfully engage with my current US market based employer.
Stock_Bus_6825@reddit
I worked in a US company and was paid US rate.
I was not an expat but a local, my expat coworkers were being paid Us rates and locals, local rates.
Mt salary was later adjusted to match US rates.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Can you expan on this a bit more? So you had US citizen coworkers who lived overseas from the US with you, but were paid a US salary? And then you were lifted up to also receive a US salary? And the compensation philosophy of the company was to pay non-US-ctizens whatever their local rates were, but pay their US citizen expat employees the US market rate?
This sounds like what I'm looking for - what company was that? And when? If you don't mind sharing :)
Stock_Bus_6825@reddit
Can you expand on this a bit more? So you had US citizen coworkers who lived overseas from the US with you, but were paid a US salary?
Yes, correct but they were management, lead, roles.
And then you were lifted up to also receive a US salary? And the compensation philosophy of the company was to pay non-US-ctizens whatever their local rates were, but pay their US citizen expat employees the US market rate?
Sort of, there were only two US citizens, both in leading positions, who were expats being paid US rates, rest of the company in the local branch were locals being paid local rates.
I was the only local who got a salary to match US rates when I was about to quit for another role.
It was also a farily small start-up 25 or so employees.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I see - thanks very much for clarifying. You must have provided a lot of value! Any hope of getting the company name by chance?
Still feels a bit similar - I'm in a lead role that I fill from Australia for a team populated with people who live in the US - so not too far off perhaps. Also a smallish company - 50ish. So me living in australia (US citizen), leading a team of 4 people (US citizens living in the US).
Stock_Bus_6825@reddit
Your situation seems very similar to that of my co-workers indeed.
They were originially leading the local team, but since they've grown and they're also leading people back in the US.
Also the company has now to around 50 employees.
RexManning1@reddit
There are plenty of US company employees working for related entities in their countries of residence making US salaries. A lot of relocations and executives. Very few people are working cross border as an employee for a US company directly because of labor and tax laws.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
This is not what I'm intending to do - I'm keeping everything above board and just making the case for a higher salary due to increased tax burder over my Australian collegues.
RexManning1@reddit
Make your request. They will either raise your salary or not. Regardless of how they respond, you will find out how valuable you are to your employer.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Entirely agree. Arguments are best posed with examples, data, evidence, and precedent - hence the post. So if you know anyone or have any stories that align, its helpful. Else its not.
AruthaPete@reddit
Expensify pays US salaries no matter where you are, including Australia.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
Thanks for sharing - I'll add them to my list of companies that embrace location agnostic compensation.
DifferentWindow1436@reddit
I have to say unfortunately you probably won't get far with that argument. You are a local hire, regular employee, right? So your competition is other Australians/AU residents. Your benefits and labor conditions will be tied to those of Oz.
I made a US salary at one point when I transferred from our US office to Japan, but that was a transfer. And I went local and the salary didn't keep up with the general US market salary, but that's ok because my CoL is Japan CoL, not America.
Minimum_Victory7446@reddit (OP)
I think this is a relevant response. Do you mind what company this was for? Also - working in Japan sounds really really interesting. I've heard the work culture tends to be a bit overboard maybe? But going to the bars and dinners after work, and just being in Japan must be pretty cool. :thumbs:
DivineAlmond@reddit
> location-agnostic compensation philosophy
damn thats a nice way of phrasing this
but no 99% of companies will adjust salaries based on whether its in burgerland or europooristan