Gaza hostage and ceasefire deal officially signed in Doha
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 211 comments
Posted by Naurgul@reddit | anime_titties | View on Reddit | 211 comments
redelastic@reddit
Just to note, the Axios "journalist" who wrote this article is a "former" Israeli spy.
markbadly@reddit
barak ravid is a fairly reliable source because the americans leak everything through him
redelastic@reddit
People don't seem to mind that he's a spy.
markbadly@reddit
And?
Borscht_can@reddit
And that discredits the article? He delivers pretty concise statements, including, most importantly - mentioning Smotrich and Ben Gvir trying to prevent the ceasefire.
redelastic@reddit
Just bringing this fun fact to people's attention. Personally I prefer not to get my news from spies of a foreign state.
Borscht_can@reddit
Seeing that you mention it multiple times in this post alone, it's not just "fun fact" to you lol
redelastic@reddit
Odd you think a foreign spy working in US news is normal lol
anticomet@reddit
I frequently see people use an article published by an oil lobbiest to defend all the drilling and mining the Biden administration okayed over the past four years(more then even what Trump okayed in his first term). They never seem to understand why the source of the article makes its contents completely untrustworthy.
redelastic@reddit
It seems people don't really adopt critical thinking about the information they consume.
"What's the problem with a spy being a journalist in a foreign state?" is an incredibly dumb take by anyone.
AdVivid8910@reddit
You do realize people can change jobs right? Not only that but this is exactly the kind of experience you’d want for writing on these topics, you’re ridiculous buddy lol.
redelastic@reddit
Oh to be as naive as you, the world would be an innocent place.
AdVivid8910@reddit
What in the ever loving fuck are you talking about, every fucking country hires former intel guys to do analysis…how the fuck do you think any of this works? Sad that you can’t see past your hatred, you’d love reality.
MonsutAnpaSelo@reddit
wait till you find out how many countries buy their news of the USA
redelastic@reddit
Yes, kind of my point.
Eexoduis@reddit
Your only two options are not: believe the article blindly or reject its every word.
You could actually try just reading it skeptically. Consult other sources.
redelastic@reddit
My point is it's written by a spy. They tend to have an agenda.
Eexoduis@reddit
Analyst, to be exact. And do they? Analysis, even for an intelligence agency, is just a job. You treat “spy” as though it is loaded with some sort of specific, harmful context, when really it is rather vague.
Also, the conspiratorial starters you’re dropping don’t lead anywhere. Doesn’t make much sense to pick a former intelligence analyst to lead your state-sponsored, covert intelligence operation, particularly when information can be found so easily concerning their background.
redelastic@reddit
Just like they call spies posing as diplomats "cultural attachés".
If you can't see where the issue is, me explaining it further probably won't help.
Get your news from foreign spies if you wish.
undernew@reddit
An analyst is not the same thing as a spy.
redelastic@reddit
You clearly know a lot about espionage.
Thek40@reddit
I don't what's worse, calling Barak Ravid a spy or the source of that claim.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
So I’ll be taking bets for who breaks the deal first, who do y’all got? Personally my money is on israel randomly bombing Gaza and Syria in a couple months
ODHH@reddit
Israel has not stopped breaking the ceasefire in Lebanon so it’s a pretty easy bet IMO.
Various_Builder6478@reddit
The ceasefire allows Israeli operation in south Lebanon. So no they aren’t breaking any deal. Hezbollah however is breaking by not disarming and withdrawing north of Litani river
IAMADon@reddit
Hmm?
Various_Builder6478@reddit
Hmmm let me quote the points that you selectively omitted
Israel and Lebanon recognize the importance of UN Security Council Resolution 1701. (Calls for disbanding Hezbollah completely)
All unauthorized facilities involved in the production of weapons and their accessories will be dismantled, as well as infrastructure and military positions. Unauthorized weapons that do not comply with these obligations will be confiscated.
During this period of time, Hezbollah operatives will withdraw to the north of the Litani River, while the armed forces that will be allowed to stay in this area will be the Lebanese Armed Forces and the UNIFIL force.
Israel will retain “complete military freedom of action” to attack Lebanon in the event of a violation of the agreement by Hezbollah or another entity in Lebanon.
There you go. Israel does retain the right to operate in Lebanon if there is a violation by Hezbollah - which it has already done by merely existing.
IAMADon@reddit
You'll notice that number 11 also refers to the 60 day period Israel has to withdraw.
60 days will be the 26th of January. Therefore no violation has occurred by Hezbollah, whereas Israel have committed 470+ violations by conducting offensive actions in Lebanon.
kapsama@reddit
Huh another Zionist caught lying. Who would've thought.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Yeah, because anyone can write anything and say it's true! Here:
kapsama@reddit
Israel never even promised to respect Palestinian sovereign territory. They're straight out of the middle ages in their behavior and land theft.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
WHich "sovereign territory" was that?
kapsama@reddit
See never mind the radical extremist government of Israel even the radical extremist Israel supporters online do not recognize the Palestinian right to their own territory.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Again, which territory are you referring to?
kapsama@reddit
The fact that you don't even realize how you're exposing your hateful ideology by continuing to ask.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
So you don't actually know. Got it.
OnlyRadioheadLyrics@reddit
>The ceasefire allows Israeli operation in south Lebanon.
Honestly why even have words at this point
Puffycatkibble@reddit
Shut up let me be the baddie while cosplaying as the good guys
Get_on_base@reddit
Your country literally hates Israel and your leader is super antisemitic.
Puffycatkibble@reddit
Your leader is Trump
Get_on_base@reddit
Didn’t vote for him, nor do I share his views. Can you say the same?
Puffycatkibble@reddit
Yes.
You see what you did when you stereotyped me based on the country and the leader?
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Nah bro that comeback was crazy
Get_on_base@reddit
Maybe everyone should avoid doing that when it comes to Israel then, especially here.
Puffycatkibble@reddit
Well you don't have videos of me being complicit in war crimes
Get_on_base@reddit
I’d hope not, just like there’s none of me. But I’m not going to pretend every adult in Israel is a war criminal.
Puffycatkibble@reddit
But doesn't Israel treat every adult in Gaza as Hamas?
UnfoldingDeathwings@reddit
LMAO, how about you stick to your mobile games?
Icy_Island_6096@reddit
Stfu you zio scum
markbadly@reddit
Hezbollah agreed to that btw
saranowitz@reddit
How dare you push ~~the truth~~ Hasbara propaganda in this thread zionazi /s
Onuus@reddit
To be fair I didn’t think Israel actually agreed to the initial ceasefire that everyone was celebrating a few days ago.
No ceasefire will happen unless they are the ones who bring it to the table. I’m convinced
vegeful@reddit
Its too easy to break when the agreement got throw away not even passing the 1st year mark. Hezbo not disband back then when the agreement say so. 🤣
EmptyJackfruit9353@reddit
Seems to be true that you can't kill idea.
But you can bomb people so hard they realize on their own that their idea was bad.
vegeful@reddit
Man i get downvote when the ceasefire agreement is a paper toilet from the start. But i guess its normal since this is their camp.
Its weird. Westerner can talk and write english. But reading comprehension not. If you break the ceasefire agreement then is it even an agreement?
Lebanon saying they too weak to remove hezbollah is just an excuse.
AdVivid8910@reddit
I don’t think bombing Syria would violate the Gaza ceasefire but to be fair I didn’t read it.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Nah it’s unrelated, I just think they’ll randomly bomb Gaza and Syria simultaneously
AdVivid8910@reddit
They’ve already done that, not randomly though lol.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
I mean yea but I mean they’ll just choose like a extremely random day to do it
AdVivid8910@reddit
Like a Tuesday?
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
A bold but reasonable prediction
Old_Wallaby_7461@reddit
Hamas already proclaimed that they would try October 7 again. Whether they can now is an open question.
Israel bombed everything worth bombing in syria. I expect it will stay quiet.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
See I would think that about Syria but it’s the natural and obvious step for Israel to take imo. You get rid of a potential Lebanon situation before it can even exist, and put the US in a favorable position. I would be curious on how turkey 🦃 would react tho
gazongagizmo@reddit
they already tried to sneak in major military commanders into the prisoner swap list, so give it a few years til the next Sinwar is in place.
Monterenbas@reddit
For the foreseeable future
Rev-Dr-Slimeass@reddit
Hamas is years away from another October 7 in terms of regaining their prior capability. Probably closer to a decade. Israel isn't going to relax for a long time either.
dummypod@reddit
Probably not in the near future. They will have difficulty rearming, and new recruits need to be trained, and there will be plenty.
notsocoolnow@reddit
Wait why is Syria part of a deal with Hamas?
SignificantAd1421@reddit
Israel invaded a part of Syria
notsocoolnow@reddit
Okay so what does a ceasefire with Hamas, who is not in charge of Syria, have to do with it?
IsoRhytmic@reddit
A pattern of invading your neighbors makes your claims of "defense" highly suspicious.
If you can't put the 2 together, you're not thinking
notsocoolnow@reddit
Once again, how would a ceasefire agreement with Hamas change a single thing about Syria, which is not run by Hamas?
Blind_Slug@reddit
This isn't just a deal between Hamas and Israel, its being brokered by other countries, and while ending the Gaza Genocide is the core thrust of the deal, other matter are being addressed as well.
notsocoolnow@reddit
You know, I have had 4 people so far reply to me without bothering to check that the ceasefire agreement does not include any provisions for Syria at all which was the point I was reying to make.
Blind_Slug@reddit
this is what I get for jumping in half way oof
ycnz@reddit
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-needs-lebensraum-says-blog-major-national-newspaper-1996635
notsocoolnow@reddit
Ok, so once again, what does a ceasefire with Hamas, who is not in charge of Syria, have to do with Syria?
ycnz@reddit
They're both conflicts instigated by Israel, because they want the land.
notsocoolnow@reddit
And how on earth would a ceasefire agreement with Hamas change a single thing about Syria, when Hamas does not run Syria?
ycnz@reddit
My point is that the IDF are rabid dogs, attacking everything in sight at random.
Shellz2bellz@reddit
It’s not really random at all though
randompersononearth9@reddit
You will have more succes breaking a concrete wall with you head instead of getting a straight and honest answer.
postdiluvium@reddit
Israel has invaded so many other countries, they just try to get word in when a deal is being made. Such is life for israel
Throwaway5432154322@reddit
Good luck getting a real answer to this one
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
It’s not, but I’m sure israel will bomb it lol
notsocoolnow@reddit
You know what's the weird thing? You are the only person so far who has actually answered the question.
Originally I meant it as a joke because I knew you made an honest mistake and Syria obviously isn't part of the deal, but all of a sudden a bunch of people have given me canned responses about why Israel is committing a genocide or is an apartheid state when my question literally asks nothing about Israel.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Agenda gotta agend
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
Yeah I'll say the side which has been vehemently against any ceasefire and has declined the same proposal(s) several times with a blood-thirsty Zionist party in the coalition who wants to continue the war will most likely break the ceasefire.
ijzerwater@reddit
zionists will expand into West bank again, with (state) terrorism, land grab and once Palestinians react 'Hamas' will have broken the cease fire
Iamover18ustupidshit@reddit
Lol I mean look at the downvotes on my comment.
SignificantAd1421@reddit
It will be Hamas just like everytime they did before .
In 6 months to 1 year (if they keep calm) they will resume firing rockets towards Israel.
djhab@reddit
After israel randomly kill people and cut electricity, water ?
Monterenbas@reddit
I’m not sure that cutting water and electricity, to a government who openly state its goal of murdering as many of your people as possible, really qualify as « random ».
mnmkdc@reddit
What’s your opinion when Israeli politicians say that? Ben-gvir, smotrich, and even Gallant and Netanyahu have made statements like that.
Also cutting water to a region that you effectively occupy and doesnt have enough water to sustain itself is pretty bad to say the least.
Corben11@reddit
It's so confusing. So isreal occupies Gaza, can control their food, electrical and water supply and Gaza keeps attacking isreal, I mean their charter until like 8 years ago was total destruction of isreal.
This is like a 14 year old declaring war against their parents.
Hell, there are almost as many palestines living in isreal as the Gaza strip.
Seems like hamas is the problem. But you guys do back flips trying to justify Hamas stated goal of total destruction of isreal.
Yes, isreal has been a dick too, but I don't know how you even have good relations with someone whose goal is your death.
They both can be bad guys but one actively keeps attacking and calling for death.
Isreal has the bigger stick and somehow, it's just interpreted as bullying. Meanwhile, switching the power dynamic and isreal would have all been completely destroyed.
mnmkdc@reddit
I’m not really following your first few paragraphs. Yea, Israel occupies Gaza. Yes, Hamas wants to destroy Israel. There’s a whole 60+ year context prior to Hamas’s election there.
It’s like all the other times where a government has puts an ethnic group that they consider inferior into a ghetto or a camp and then dealt with the repercussions.
Both of them have been problems. You don’t have to justify Hamas specifically to understand that. Israel runs an apartheid in the West Bank where they also back Israeli terrorists, they strip Palestinians of land to make room for their own villages, they’ve been caught using human shields even through this war, they were caught using ambulances to hide soldiers last month (something that has been alleged many times this war), they were caught targeting children, there’s been public calls for genocide by top politicians, etc. Resistance is justified even if you (like me) don’t support Hamas. This isn’t “Israel being a dick”. This is Israel being guilty of extremely bad crimes. This isn’t “one side keeps attacking the other”. This is two sides both attacking each other except one side is the most powerful country in the region and the other was Irans 2nd of 3rd favorite puppet group. There’s no symmetry in that.
If you can’t figure out why people view it as bullying, start looking up the actual history here. It’s not really as morally complex as you’ve been told. Maybe viewing an apartheid state in the way you do isn’t giving you an accurate representation of the real world.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Your cultivated ignorance will do that.
mnmkdc@reddit
No, it’s just that they made 4 paragraphs for seemingly one idea but they threw in random things like “there’s almost as many Palestinians in Israel as the Gaza Strip.” I also responded to everything they said. They just made a bunch of points that don’t seem to really back up the opinion they hold, hence my confusion.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
How does regurgitating talking points made by Reddit's lowest common denominator prove that?
mnmkdc@reddit
Well that’s exactly the point. You guys regurgitate talking points while I give actual context to a nuanced situation. Like this guy tries to minimize it as “Israel being a dick”, which is the typical defense you hear from the pro Israel crowd. I gave a list of easily verifiable war crimes and violations of international law to explain how ignorant that statement is.
And you have provided nothing. So that one goes without saying.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
LOL. "Israel runs an apartheid in the West Bank where they also back Israeli terrorists."
Much nuance, very academic, lots of IQ
mnmkdc@reddit
Is that wrong? The person I was responding to was explicitly presenting it as one sided with one side being “a dick” and the other side launching constant attacks. Do you have anything to offer here or are you just here to establish your own ignorance and make yourself feel smart?
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
What would you like me to offer the beyond inflammatory rhetoric like you did?
mnmkdc@reddit
Perhaps respond to the content of my comments rather than just repeating that you think I’m ignorant? Like instead of ignoring my question in your comment here, maybe respond to how you believe that is wrong and not adding essential context like I claimed.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
But there was no content, it was just the same cliche crapola I could find on r/pics.
mnmkdc@reddit
Then why haven’t you been able to answer my question? Stop digging and just respond. It’s not like anyone else is reading this. I know you’re playing dumb
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Depends on your question. All I saw was "Israel terrorism blah blah blah" and tuned out. Do you actually have something legitimate to ask, or is it going to be some nonsensical strawman mixed with an emotional appeal?
mnmkdc@reddit
The irony of you calling me ignorant and then admitting you didn’t actually read anything lmao.
Yes, I asked what is incorrect about my added context. The part you specifically tried to mock about the apartheid and supporting terrorists in the West Bank. Explain why you believe that is either false or doesn’t give context to the situation. Keep in my the original point the other commenter made was that this was mostly one sided by Hamas and Israel is just “a dick”.
If you can’t do that. Don’t respond. Stop digging your hole. If it’s the same talking points everyone brings up, then you should be able to easily defend yourself. But if you’re going to respond like you have the last 5 comments, that’ll just be an acknowledgement that you’re out of your depth here.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
That's not how it works. You need to provide evidence of your assertion, not your opinion.
mnmkdc@reddit
Thank you. This is the acknowledgement I was expecting. You were unable to even say if you believe my claim is untrue or if you just don’t think they provide necessary context to the conversation you joined in on. Feel free to try again at any time. I’ll provide evidence as soon as you’re able to properly articulate what you’re claiming is incorrect and why.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
Nice try and the lame deflection. It confirms you're full of shit.
Monterenbas@reddit
Well, as I mention before, Israeli leaders knows very well why they are getting bombed and they own it.
While it’s always to see Hamas leader acting surprised « why would Israel do ever do that?! » after repeatedly threatening them with genocide.
It is bad, but if the government next door was threatening us with extermination (justifiably or not), I know my country wouldn’t send them any water or electricity and I seriously doubt yours would either.
mnmkdc@reddit
Because it’s not just the country next to them. They officially occupied them until 2005/2006, but due to the amount of control they still had over the region most of the world still considers Gaza occupied.
Plus if you cut off water and food supply to a region and then don’t allow people to safely leave that region, that’s genocide. That’s what gallant and others wanted at the start of the war, but they were met with international push back.
Monterenbas@reddit
Would your country provide electricity to Hamas, if they repeatedly threatened you with extermination?
You can call that genocide, but no country is entitled to consistently threaten their neighbors and then expect normal trading relations.
They can have either one but certainly not both.
djhab@reddit
you are talking about israel also right?
Monterenbas@reddit
If that please you, although I do find Israel and Hamas rethoric regarding each other, quiet different.
But at least, you’ll never hear Israeli saying stuff like « why is Hamas randomly shouting rocket at us? » they know why, just like Hamas perfectly know why they are under embargo, but they like to play dumb.
kapsama@reddit
Israeli politicians admit that Hamas fights them because they're an Apartheid settler state that oppresses Palestinians?
Monterenbas@reddit
They certainly not use the Reddit buzzword checklist, but they surely acknowledge that they stand on what used to be Palestinian land.
Corben11@reddit
Palestine land tho? It was the Ottoman empires land. There was no country there besides just an area the Ottoman Empire controlled.
Monterenbas@reddit
Palestinian land is the land where Palestinians people live. The name that faraway colonial empire attribute to the place, or not, are irrelevant.
India and Indians didn’t cease to exist when they were conquered by the British.
Corben11@reddit
2 million palestines live in isreal tho?
Monterenbas@reddit
You mean Arab Israeli?
Corben11@reddit
20% of isreals population is palestine persons.
Monterenbas@reddit
They are not, they are Israeli citizens
Corben11@reddit
So if a palestine person becomes an Israeli citizen they are no longer Palestinian?
Monterenbas@reddit
If someone live in Israel and have the Israeli citizenship, they are indeed Israeli.
Corben11@reddit
Wow. You guys are next level dumb.
Monterenbas@reddit
👍
Monterenbas@reddit
They are not, they are Israeli citizens
kapsama@reddit
That's preposterous. Israeli politicians are out there calling Palestinians animals and comparing them yo biblical evils that were righteously wiped off the map.
Monterenbas@reddit
Sure, that doesn’t contradict anything that I said tho.
Monterenbas@reddit
I’m not sure that cutting water and electricity, to a government who openly state its goal of murdering as many of your people as possible, really qualify as « random ».
Kazruw@reddit
Traditionally Hamas would start shooting rockets the same day as Israel pulls troops, but I don’t they have the capability to do that now. My bet is on some incident, where both have plausible deniability, leading to escalation. A likely scenario could look as follows.
A boy totally not affiliated with Hamas attempting a suicide bombing getting gunned down by Israeli troops causing significant collateral damage. Within hours we will have a thread here with 75% of the commenters blaming Israel for the unprovoked killing of an innocent girl with a bright future ahead of her. The other 25% will say that there’s no way to know that all of the victims weren’t actually Hamas’ soldiers and their houses should be demolished just to be safe.
kapsama@reddit
Bad math. At least 50% of the commenters will be Israeli shills ignoring that Israel brutalizes Palestinians 365 days of the year by stealing their homes, arresting and raping their boys, stealing their rain water, destroying their farms, shooting peaceful demonstrators in the head, building and expanding settlements, continuing the starvation of Gaza through air and sea blockades. Just the typical Apartheid settler things.
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
So does that make you the other 50%, a Hamas bot?
kapsama@reddit
As your fellow Israel shill above me.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Yea I think hamas agreed to a ceasefire because they’re running low on weapons and resources in general so I doubt they’re the ones to break the deal this time
Teasturbed@reddit
Hamas had agreed on these terms long time ago, the whole purpose of the hostage taking was go exchange them with the Palestinian detainees who they consiser hostages, which is part of the deal. It's the Israeli side that's been derailing the negotiations since the far right ministers are against a deal and have threatened Netanyahu with dissolving the government, which would end his reign and probably lead to his prosecution (which was about to happen before this whole mess).
https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/04/middleeast/netanyahu-derailed-hostage-deal-in-july-intl/index.html
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
We’re not talking about who agreed or didn’t agree to the terms
Teasturbed@reddit
I am just pointing out that I disagree with your assetion that Hamas agreed to ceasefire because of running low on ammunitions. They had agreed to these terms long tjme ago already and they weren't the reason why the ceasefire took this long.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
The fact that they agreed a long time ago doesn’t mean they didn’t agree to a ceasefire because of running low on supplies. They’ve been really weak for close to a year now so I think that’s the main reason they want a ceasefire. Israel derailing negotiations seems like a normal thing since they would want to take advantage of a weak hamas to just flatten them for good
Teasturbed@reddit
Israel's derailing of negotiations has two reasons; none of which is what you stated. One is the terrorists running the coalition government (Ben Gvir and Stormich) who want a greater Israel and annex all of Palestine, eliminating all its inhabitants via any means possible. They are pretty open and proud of this goal. They don't want a ceasefire and Ben Gvir has bragged about derailing it successfully, which brings us to the second reason. Netanyahu, whose survival depends on the coalition with Gvir and Stormich, put his own interests above all else, making a mockery of the ehole process while making sure that the press gives confusing accounts about what went wrong. It all came to light now, ironically thanks to the shameless openness of of Gvir and Stormich.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Well, the first reason is why they would wanna flatten Hamas for good lol
mnmkdc@reddit
Both sides have violated multiple ceasefires in the past. The idea that it’s always Hamas is completely made up.
Example of Israel breaking a ceasefire:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire
whosadooza@reddit
You mean when Hamas was blatantly breaking the deal to dig tunnels into Israel, tunnels that Hamas didn't even deny digging but said they were "defensive" in nature only?
mnmkdc@reddit
No, there was no tunnel into Israel. Israel claimed that was their plan, but the border fence was 250m-300m away from the tunnel at the time of the raid. An advisor for the Carter Center claims that an IDF official agreed that the tunnel was just made for defensive purposes and a Likud minister said they had planned Operation Cast Lead for months before they broke the ceasefire.
whosadooza@reddit
"Sorry you caught us with our hand in the cookie jar, but please just put the cookie jar back where it was. We won't touch it this time."
mnmkdc@reddit
Once again, your blind belief of Israel’s statements only hurts you in this argument. Can you explain why you buy Israel’s argument even though it’s not backed by anything and there’s credible sources that say otherwise?
whosadooza@reddit
Because I'm not "wrong" about the tunnel. Why are you just blindly believing the word of Hamas when the entire ceasefire was about ending a conflict that started by Hamas digging a tunnel into Israel and kidnapping Israelis?
Of course the discover tunnels pointed at Israel were being dug into Israel. You can choose to ignorantly believe otherwise, but I won't be so naive no matter how much you wish I was.
mnmkdc@reddit
I’m not. If you actually read my comment I said a senior advisor for the Carter Foundation, Robert Pastor, went to Damascus with Jimmy Carter to discuss the potential escalation says that an IDF official acknowledged that the tunnels were made for defensive purposes. That is a trustworthy source. I also said that a Likud minister publicly claimed that operation Cast Lead was planned for months ahead of time.
Again, you have no backing for your argument. I do have backing for mine. And tbh even if you did, saying that a preemptive strike doesn’t count isn’t a great point. Either side can claim their strikes are preemptive at any time, but if there isn’t an probable immediate threat then they’re still the ones breaking the ceasefire.
whosadooza@reddit
So you would have been outraged if Israel would have acted pre-emptively to stop the October 7th attacks?
mnmkdc@reddit
If they had a provable immediate threat that’s valid. But to be clear since I know where you guys are trained to go with this, I’m not saying Israel isn’t allowed to defend themselves from attacks. There wasn’t really a strong ceasefire before 10/7 though. Both sides were launching attacks in the weeks prior.
There was no tunnel being built into Israel. They raided a tunnel that was hundreds of meters away. Again, you need more proof than just their statement. We have nothing but an unverified claim from an untrustworthy source that a tunnel was being built into Israel.
whosadooza@reddit
Why are you so blatantly lying? It was AT the border and pointed at Israel. Yes, Israel stopped it before they dug into Israel, because letting them dig INTO Israel is how that round of conflict began in the first place when Hamas dug tunnels into Israel and murdered/kidnapped Israelis.
Hamas has gone through periods and waves of how they operate. At one point, their focus was suicide bombings, but that time has long since faded. At the time of this conflict though, their modus operandi was absolutely digging tunnels into Israel and murdering/kidnapping any Israeli they could get their hands on.
mnmkdc@reddit
That’s not evidence. Hamas says it was a defensive tunnel. A reliable American source says the IDF also believed that. A month later, we have confirmation that Hamas wanted the ceasefire to continue and Israel did not. That, again, points to it being defensive.
Also, just to add to this, Israel had violated the ceasefire several times prior to this, including the day it was put into effect and several murders of children under the age of 10. On the other hand, we have confirmation by an official IDF spokesperson that Hamas did not break the ceasefire by firing rockets and pretty much every source is in agreement that Hamas wanted the ceasefire to hold.
So you have 0 evidence. Everything points to your claim being false. You’re believing an untrustworthy source for no reason at all.
whosadooza@reddit
No, we have confirmation that Hamas wanted no repercussions for their attempt to repeat the same exact kind of attack that started that round of conflict. That is not at all in any way proof that they wouldn't commit the attack.
Yes, of course, because they can't dig tunnels and then launch a surprise attack coming out of a cease-fire if they are being punished for their attempts to dig those tunnels. Of course they wanted the peace they needed to finish their attack preparations. That is not evidence they weren't preparing a surprise attack.
mnmkdc@reddit
No repercussions? They got raided. There was then a month of back and forth attacks in which Israel has the obvious advantage. Those were the “repercussions”. The issue is Israel was just not planning on keeping the ceasefire going for long. There was no evidence of any attempt of attack. You’re still just repeating unbacked claims.
There is evidence they weren’t planning a surprise attack. I’ve already given it to you. Still awaiting your sources and your justification for blindly believing Israel over trustworthy American sources.
whosadooza@reddit
No, there absolutely is not. There is only evidence that they did not want to deal with the repercussions after-the-fact of their tunnels into Israel being detected before they could strike first with a surprise attack. Their actions to end the repercussion occuring after their plot was foiled is not indicative to what they would have wanted if it was not.
Yes, they got raided, and then called for a ceasefire again. "Sorry you caught us with our hand in the cookie jar..."
mnmkdc@reddit
There is a reliable source who has been participating in the peace talks saying that the idf also believed it was a defensive tunnel. Thats more than anything you’ve brought to the table. And again, even if you were right, they already faced the so called “repercussions”. Thats what the raid and the subsequent strikes in Gaza were.
I’m not lying about anything. The tunnel was positioned in a place to defend from on ground raid, which Israel has admitted to have been planning for months.
Keep running in circles. You have nothing here because you probably didn’t even know about this until today.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
I think this time they won’t because they’re starting to run low on weapons and resources so they needed the ceasefire to regroup, get their weapons and supplies ready for another extended war period and then attack again but I don’t see that happening in less than a year
thedevilwithout@reddit
"couple of months"
My dude, they'll drop bombs tomorrow and their useful idiots will be here defending it like they did when Israel broke the Lebanon ceasefire in the first week
FudgeAtron@reddit
The ceasefire doesn't go into effect until Sunday, tomorrow is Saturday, so that wouldn't break the ceasefire.
thedevilwithout@reddit
That's fine then, they'll just do a little more mass murder before they're asked to stop
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
And Hamas can kidnap and rape some more.
thedevilwithout@reddit
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_against_Palestinians_during_the_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_war
Own_Thing_4364@reddit
"Every accusation is a confession"
Indeed:
https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789
thedevilwithout@reddit
Why you telling me about Hamas? I hate Hamas as much as the next guy
Unlike you, I don't support rapists and war criminals
Lathariuss@reddit
Couple months? Youre far too generous
smexyrexytitan@reddit
Personally my money is on the terrorists who are jacking off to the thought of doing another Oct 7th
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
They too weak rn tho. They’d be extremely stupid if they actually did
LineOfInquiry@reddit
I’m betting Israel will do something like raid the Al aqsa mosque or annex large parts of the West Bank that de facto breaks the ceasefire but isn’t technically a part of it, and Hamas will do some sort of symbolic attack that won’t actually hurt anyone because they’re too weak to do so rn.
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Nah you’re crazy. They won’t touch Al Aqsa because that would involve pretty much every Muslim nation in the war
LineOfInquiry@reddit
They’ve done it before and only been attacked by Hamas.
reality_hijacker@reddit
My bet is on Israel doing random land grab in west bank, evicting Palestinian residents, and Hamas firing mortars in response. Israel will then pin all the blame on Hamas and start the next bombing campaign.
randompersononearth9@reddit
As is tradition for the past 70 years.
Poke the bear and get it angry enough to growl or attack. Then tell the rest of the world how this bear attacked poor innocent me and i am right to exterminate his family
john_cooltrain@reddit
Israel breaks it but blames hamas, the usual story.
ycnz@reddit
Months or hours?
idkwhotfmeiz@reddit
Tbh it could be anything
Paradoxjjw@reddit
It took Israel less than a week to violate the Lebanon ceasefire multiple times, i doubt it will take months
allen_idaho@reddit
My money is on Israel resuming bombing right after the hostages are returned.
Disastrous_Visit_778@reddit
more like a couple days after the ceasefire
ForgetfullRelms@reddit
Put me down for Hamas mortars attack in 3 months
actsqueeze@reddit
Seems like every 20 minutes there’s a new article saying the deal will be scuttled or it’s going through. But it sounds like it’s official now?
Other than:
“But the Israeli government isn’t expected to vote on it until Saturday night.”
Can someone explain to me what this means exactly? Who in the government? Will it for sure pass? Is there still doubt?
notsocoolnow@reddit
In a democracy, one person generally does not have the authority to sign deals willy nilly. Not even the head of Government (ie the PM). Generally there are rules on the kind of international deals that the Head of Government can sign and this is usually decided by the legislatuve body.
In this case this looks like the kind of deal that the Knesset has to approve, and Netanyahu can't just decide it on his own.
For Hamas it is simpler because their leaders can decide anything they like, but it's another matter whether the grunt follow orders.
As for this specific deal: it looks like both Natanyahu's party and the main opposition will agree to it. There is a very small group (minor political parties in Netanyahu's coalition) who object, but it is not likely that they will be able to get enough to block it.
Teasturbed@reddit
That minority coalition holds all the cards against Netanyahu which is why he has been derailing the negotiations, putting his own survival above the hostages.
notsocoolnow@reddit
This was correct, but I understand that opposition leader Yair Lapid has stated he would block the collapse of Netanyahu's government if his coalition splits over this deal specifically. He is willing to overlook their differences in order to secure the ceasefire and hostages.
Teasturbed@reddit
Promising. The fractured parties gave too much powet to a literal terrorist (Ben Gvir). He is out there organizing Gaza settlement parties.
notsocoolnow@reddit
Lapid has effectively cornered Netanyahu with this. It is my hope that by pinning both Ben Gvir and Netanyahu to their commitments we will see both the ceasefire deal pass and Ben Gvir forced to quit the coalition to save face, which would be a massive plus all around.
Gvir was trying to get Smotrich to threaten to quit along with him in order to forcefully pull the deal, but hopefully Smotrich will realize that it will pass anyway and won't pointlessly destroy his own electoral odds.
Of course, Smotrich is a shithead on his own, but we can't have everything.
actsqueeze@reddit
Israel isn’t a democracy, it’s an apartheid state.
Palleseen@reddit
It’s a democracy. “Palestine” is an apartheid non-state
mnmkdc@reddit
They both are apartheid states. Denying Israel as an apartheid at this point is like denying South African apartheid in the 80s
AdVivid8910@reddit
The minorities living in Israel, such as Arabs, have human rights, which they don’t in any other country in the region. Call it apartheid til you’re blue in the face but it’s not true. I realize having your narrative blow up might make you angry though, so don’t direct it at me. Israel is over 1/5th Arab and Palestine is 0% Jewish because they completely ethnically cleansed them in the 40s(including the West Bank)….so not really fair to call Palestine apartheid either, unless apartheid contains not allowed to live at all idk.
mnmkdc@reddit
Now address the west bank, where Israel governs hundreds of thousands of people who aren't allowed to vote or ever get citizenship. The reason I can so confidently call it an apartheid is because you guys ALWAYS will use this same argument where you very conveniently ignore the main focus of the claim. Every single time.
AdVivid8910@reddit
Not much to address, Israel has part of the WB and so does Palestine, the big difference here is that under Israel both Arabs and Jews can live there and under Palestine there are no Jews. It’s a rough situation for Israel, living next to people that only have genocidal intent, good thing there’s people like you out there to blame the actual victims.
mnmkdc@reddit
Edited this in to my last comment before I realized you responded:
There are issues within Israel proper as well, but the apartheid claim centers on the west bank. Defenders of it like to claim that its not an apartheid because they are not citizens of Israel, however this is not an actual criteria of apartheid. In the west bank, there is segregation solidly on the basis of ethnicty. Palestinians are tried under a separate legal system, they have less access to water, they have no voting rights and lack a lot of other rights that they would be guaranteed if they were born jewish, they are very frequently targeted by police, and hate crimes by settlers are almost always given no repercussions. This isn't the same as harsh immigration laws, these are people who have been there for centuries before the country that oppresses them was conceived. Israel is explicitly a state that prioritizes a specific ethinicity and that combined with the treatment of Palestinians in the west bank makes the claim undeniable. That's apartheid.
FYI, every apartheid and just about every genocide has been a "tough situation" for the state committing the crime. What you're doing is defending apartheid, not denying it.
AdVivid8910@reddit
You’re just a nut case, sorry you lost your war or whatever, must suck for you. Later
notsocoolnow@reddit
You do understand that one does not preclude the other, right? You fukken asked for an explanation and I gave it and you took offence because I didn't use your preferred terminology?
actsqueeze@reddit
You actually didn’t give me the correct answer, It’s not the Knesset that votes. Your comment was snide and incorrect, that’s why I took offense.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/ben-gvir-says-he-repeatedly-foiled-hostage-deals-urges-smotrich-to-help-him-stop-this-one/
“The deal would apparently require approval by the security cabinet and by the government, but not a Knesset vote. The members of Netanyahu’s government would likely vote in favor a deal even if the two far-right leaders were to oppose it.“
notsocoolnow@reddit
Okay, I admit to it being inaccurate. But the way to go about responding is by doing what you just did, which is to point out the bit which was wrong, not to go off on a tangent about apartheid which literally has nothing to do with my response. The same thing applies: the democratic (or if you insist, rigged democracy) systems in Israel require the deal to be approved, just like it is in most countries.
Thek40@reddit
Shabbat. The cabinet meeting will take hours, after that the whole thing will happen in the government meeting. By law, government meetings cannot be held during the Shabbat unless there is a Pikuach nefesh involved, and thankfully they change the meetings time and the government will vote today.
actsqueeze@reddit
Thanks
ijzerwater@reddit
there is no doubt many in Israel do not want a cease fire
Borscht_can@reddit
Israeli media confirmed signing, however, it's still yet to pass Israeli parliament. (Shocking and unexpected /s)
redelastic@reddit
Comments are being hidden on this post when anyone mentions the intriguing background of the Axios author. Have a quick search.
bradicality@reddit
Indeed, also the reporting style of Axios is so tedious
ZOOM IN
WHAT THEY’RE SAYING
ZOOM OUT
THE BIG PICTURE
mulberrymilk@reddit
Let me guess, ex shmizraeli intelligence?
redelastic@reddit
Yep, the unit with the numbers.
ODHH@reddit
Internally Israel is in a state of chaos but the extremists don’t have enough seats right now in the Knesset to topple the deal.
So it’s going to go through unless something changes.
BrownThunderMK@reddit
>President Biden's Middle East envoy Brett McGurk, President-elect Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff and Qatari and Egyptian mediators worked for several hours in Doha to resolve the issue.
It is deeply ironic to me that the millisecond that Trump’s negotiator gets here is when the ceasefire finally gets pushed through, the same one that Biden has been trying to push through since May(trying is a strong word here, he never put any meaningful pressure on Israel, and in fact, enabled them at every turn )
it’s also funny to me how the Democrat apologist shills in every single American subreddit was convinced that Trump was going to put palestinians in gas chambers. The Democrats are such pathetic bastards to have let this happen
sarim25@reddit
Oh Biden never cared about getting an actual ceasefire done and Netanyahu knew Biden was weak. Even Harris was equally weak and kept repeating the same lines as Biden.
At this point, it is safe to assume if Harris won, there would be no ceasefire.
ijzerwater@reddit
Biden is a 100% believer in Israel, he was never able to say no.
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