Mercedes Admits It 'Lost Some Customers' After Dropping V-8 in C63
Posted by orhantemerrut@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 294 comments
Posted by orhantemerrut@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 294 comments
SpillinThaTea@reddit
I really thought someone in Stuttgart would smart enough to be like “hey maybe we shouldn’t do what everyone else is doing and by that I mean slapping a turbo on a V6 and telling everyone it’s the same as a V8.”
MigratingSwallow@reddit
The worst thing to come out of these new engines meeting whatever emissions standards that they're supposed to meet is not only dropping 2 cylinders and adding a turbo, but not getting any sort of benefit out of it as the consumer.
I went from a V6 truck to a 4cyl turbo and it uses up more gas, hasn't gained much more or speed, and eventually will have more problems due to more moving parts. Fucking bonkers.
Tbf, it's my fault for not just going with a Frontier or older model Tacoma.
madwolfa@reddit
I went from a silky NA 3.6 to a 2.4L turbo in a new Outback XT and this engine is trash compared to that good ol' H6. Same fuel economy, sounds like shit, not nearly as smooth.
evol450@reddit
I just picked up a Powerboost F150 and I'm astonished by the power and fuel economy. I am averaging 23-24 MPG in the city.
MigratingSwallow@reddit
I went from the 17 Taco TRD OR to a 24 Colorado ZR2 and I'm averaging 16 MPG in the city. The Taco was around 21-22 mpg. I may keep it a year and trade it in for a full size as most seem to be getting better mileage.
Toxic_Biohazard@reddit
I have never broke 20 on my taco. Do you drive like a grandpa or something?
sweeney669@reddit
Same exact here and it’s awesome. We also have a 23 Tacoma and 23 Tundra and both struggle to crack 15mpg. It’s astonishing how shit those trucks are.
Mk2Guru@reddit
I went from a V8 truck to an I6 turbo truck and fuel economy stayed the same but horsepower went up a little and torque went up by quite a bit.
Mnm0602@reddit
4 cylinder turbos making the same output as n/a v6s will definitely get you better mileage if you drive them right but IMO people tend to lean into the torque/boost when it hits (because it feels right lol) and that's where you're really burning more fuel.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
They might have gotten away with a V6. The C63 is basically the four-pot from the A45 with a hybrid system strapped on.
GVIrish@reddit
Agreed, I think they could've gotten away with a V6 but a 4 banger was a bridge too far.
ukcats12@reddit
They counted on the "F1 technology" being something people cared about and they were dead wrong. The V6 was the way to go but they deluded themselves into thinking people gave a shit about how technically advanced the engineering is behind the I4. It's a cool engineering exercise, but not all cool engineering exercises are exciting. And the I4 just isn't exciting.
ConPrin@reddit
The real reason is simply, that only 4-cylinder engines fit into the engine bay of the C-Class. It was too expensive to modify the C simply for just the AMG models if all other engines are 4-cylinders.
Capri280@reddit
Well, they could have designed it to have enough space to accommodate a V8 during the design phase. Or lengthen the engine compartment for the V8. They already did something like that for the V8 W203 & W204 AMGs
ConPrin@reddit
The bean counters at Mercedes would say: Why? 98% of all C-Class are not AMG models.
UltimaRS800@reddit
Cause you still want that INSANE profit margin of an AMG. Costumers overpay like hell for those.
footpole@reddit
Sure but the theatre world is under immense pressure from streaming and can’t really pay AMG salaries anymore.
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
iirc the current c63 does have an elongated front section compared to non-amg models.
unjuseabble@reddit
Possibly, but since the car clearly isnt selling well perhaps it wouldve been more profitable to spend the development money on either longer bay for the straight-6 or wider for the v8 and the sales wouldve made up the investment. Hindsight is 20/20 but clearly with this, and the EQ lineup Mercedes has failed to estimate what their customers want in recent years
ChopstickChad@reddit
Failing to estimate what their costumers want? You mean their costumers don't want smaller and more efficient engines? They don't want screens that dominate the dashboard left to right? Or interiors looking so garish it could be mistaken for a Serbian brothel? Geez. (/s).
GVIrish@reddit
Yeah I don't understand how they got this wrong. A very large part of the allure of the AMG V8's is the sound and fury and they spend a lot of effort to tune those engines for just that. How did they think that customer was gonna be happy with a 4 cylinder turbo, even if it did have a lot of power? I would've love to sit in on those product planning meetings.
UltimaRS800@reddit
99.9% of people really don't give a fuck about performance or engineerig and etc. They want the status. V8 is that. Ask any 911 GT3 RS owner that bought it only for track use why they did not go with a Radical RXC.
MuteToFart@reddit
That's... exactly what he just said.
Still_Ad4311@reddit
You mean slapping a turbo on a 4 cylinder and saying its the same as a V8
Gorgenapper@reddit
I remembered reading that one of the higher ups heard about this idea to put in a 4 popper and got angry enough to walk out of a meeting. This is just hearsay, and might have been astroturfing or some shit, but I would be very shocked if literally everyone over there went along with this harebrained idea willingly.
ConPrin@reddit
They had no choice, only 4-Cylinder engines fit into the C-Class. It wasn't cost effective including bigger engines as 98% of all C-Class are not AMGs.
Gorgenapper@reddit
This is like saying that they couldn't find a way to stack 8 patties into a burger because it won't fit on the tray and might topple over as it is being served. C63 customers don't care about that.
CulturalAd4117@reddit
There's an I6 in the CLE 53, thougheverbeit
ConPrin@reddit
The CLE stands on a modified platform so it can accommodate larger engines.
mihametl@reddit
Clearly they funked up then bevlcause the amg c class is already elongated compared to the normal c class, so they needed to modify it regardless.
entrotec@reddit
Not just a "higher-up". The story is about the then-CEO of Mercedes-AMG, Tobias Möhrs.
There are many supposed stories about him and he was not uncontroversial. But one thing is undeniable: he is a petrolhead through and through and had ridiculously high standards regarding their products (and the employees working on them).
maduste@reddit
okay, but what about two turbos, asking for a friend
Multifaceted-Simp@reddit
Or like the c63se, a 4 cylinder turbo
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
C63 AMG Sport
TFiPW@reddit
MB has cut enough corners to make a circle.
Master-Mission-2954@reddit
Dear Mercedes-AMG,
Some people just want a V8. It's not a very complicated concept.
Sincerely, Paying customers
Mnm0602@reddit
Honestly even a beast of a turbo 6 as a replacement would have been fine, look at BMW doing fine with the M3/4. It's the jarring move to a shitpig hybrid turbo 4 pot that turned everyone off.
Xphurrious@reddit
Especially one as prone to exploding as it is
If these ran for pennies till 250k miles i doubt people would be as upset about it(granted still somewhat upset)
Dumpster_Fetus@reddit
Wait, you're talking about the Mercedes, right? Because I hear nothing but great things about BMW's turbo I6. Contrary to blowing up lol
Xphurrious@reddit
Yes about the new 4 banger AMG cars specifically lol
I love my m240i, my only complaint is that its eating my rear tires but im mostly to blame for that one lol
Dumpster_Fetus@reddit
Hey, you're doing what the car is specified to do! :)
jondes99@reddit
Don’t forget that it weighs as much as a G-wagen.
throwaway774234@reddit
You bring up an important point. How can they still manufacture the G wagon (and various other V8 vehicles) but claim emissions forced them to go with a 4 banger for the C63?
Buffett_Goes_OTM@reddit
Because the even out the V8 emissions by offering my efficient 4 cylinder/? It’s about average fleet emission targets.
zdelusion@reddit
And the G-Wagon is likely a margins monster for them.
Uncle_Hephaestus@reddit
Gotta be haven't spent a penny on design in like 40yrs.
Upset_Exit_7851@reddit
They did just build an electric one though
Uncle_Hephaestus@reddit
Really? That's wild. I would take the new rivian R3x over that in a heart beat.
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Completely different tiers of vehicle.
OgdenDermstead@reddit
This. And it seems Mercedes (I think rightly) has decided that G wagon and its customers are more valuable to them and their brand.
---KidCharlemagne---@reddit
G wagon is a truck and not subject to the same standards
killvino@reddit
The regular g wagon (non-amg) is now using the inline 6 I think w mild hybrid. But that's why they are making more 4 cyls everywhere else. To sell their top flagship vehicles.
jondes99@reddit
At least in the US, they can sell the G as a light truck and get around all the EPA requirements (like the big 3).
Xphurrious@reddit
Yeah, there's plenty of other issues but that engine is so horrible most overlook the rest lol
nondescriptzombie@reddit
They're all pretty prone to exploding. We went from engines that didn't have timing chain sets that won't last 100k because the plastic on them breaks down and now we have dual port and direct injected turbocharged high strung 400+ hp four bangers that they're telling us are durable engines.
You remember what happened to all of those old high strung high HP turbo four bangers? They blow up.
GREG_FABBOTT@reddit
I'm convinced that the shitty plastics inside the engines high end German luxury cars was intentional to kill the used market of such cars.
In the US, German manufacturers operate off of a lease model for their high end luxury cars. You lease one, then dump it off in 2 years for the newer model. Few people actually finance/purchase them. They're leased.
Toyota has plastic timing chain guides but they are good for hundreds of thousands of miles. Even in the high strung, high revving 2ZZ-GE the timing chain guides were never fail points. You could throw on a turbocharger or supercharger at low boost and still not have problems with them.
There are thousands of different plastic formulations. Not all plastics are the same. There's no way the incredible engineers at Merc or BMW don't know this. It has to be some business related decision.
nondescriptzombie@reddit
Ford does the same thing. Chain guides are eaten through on high mileage oil changes, metal in oil in the early 100k miles range.
Pretty much any OHC V-engine is having these problems. The 2ZZ is a four banger, they don't need to keep four cams on opposite sides of the block in time.
I had a Taurus SHO with the Yamaha V6 engine. Traditional DOHC timing set up front, no funny stuff. Each intake cam was chained to the exhaust cam on the back of the head. There was tensioning block the chain ran over that would need to be replaced based on slack.
Needed the valves adjusted every 30k and all of the bolts were TTY and discontinued, but that engine was built to be durable.
Jkcanwien@reddit
Can you provide example
nondescriptzombie@reddit
Ah yes, it's well known how Ford quit making V8's entirely after the success of the Mustang SVO Turbo and the Thunderbird Turbo Coupe.
SlimJesusKeepIt100@reddit
That's because the M3 was always an I6 so that move was still cool
DM725@reddit
The E90, E92 and E93 M3 had a V8.
Brendawgggggggg@reddit
That is one generation lol. Naming the sedan, coupe, and convertible chassis codes separately doesn’t count
SlimJesusKeepIt100@reddit
Well yeah. But other than that and the E30 M3 it's always been like that
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
In fairness, the F80 was the first generation that had a turbo on it, which was controversial at the time, too.
Ok-Pin7345@reddit
The F80 didn't weigh 2.1 tonnes though and it still looks incredible 11 years later.
External-Dress-3595@reddit
F series M4 is still the best looking BMW of the last 10 or 15 years imo
Synthecal@reddit
The gold paint that it came with was perfect
GearhedMG@reddit
So 1/3 of the BMW M3 line was V8 including the first generation, but it's been always been like that.
pridetwo@reddit
Was this a brain fart? Come on man
e30kid@reddit
Mostly I6 even before G80. E30 I4, E36+E46 I6, E90/92 V8, F80+G80 I6
locolizards@reddit
The first generation was an inline 4.
Halofieldfan@reddit
That is true however that’s only one generation out of all the M3s several generations.
Sad-Fix-2385@reddit
E30 and E90 don't have inline sixes, so 2/6 M3 Models.
Redditall63@reddit
That was one generation of M3. OG had a 4. The rest Straight 6s.
sweeney669@reddit
That’s literally only one generation that lasted 6 years.
HiTork@reddit
The funny thing is I've seen some BMW fans dislike the switch from the inline-6 to V8, with some referring to it derogatorily as a "German Mustang". I know there were some cheers when the 6 returned for the F80 series cars.
Sttocs@reddit
E30 is best inline-6 sport sedan.
SlimJesusKeepIt100@reddit
The E30 M3 had the S14 I4
No-Alfalfa1894@reddit
maybe he means the 325i... for whatever reason
Smash_4dams@reddit
E36 M3 euro-spec was the best.
DefiantLaw7027@reddit
E30 M3 had a 4 cylinder
SlimJesusKeepIt100@reddit
Ik I mean like the reason why everyone accepted the M3 being an I6 is because that's always been their default engine and that model had it for most of its generations
FogItNozzel@reddit
I'm gonna be that guy right now, but BMW's headquarters is shaped like 4 cylinders because BMW considers the 4 popper to be their default.
e30kid@reddit
I6 engines are the lifeblood of BMW overall to be honest
DefiantLaw7027@reddit
I know, just funny that a lot of people forget the original M3 only had a 4 banger in it.
The i6’s definitely feel right in a BMW.
And a C63 should have a V8. They could have electrified that like BMW did with the new M5
NightFuryToni@reddit
The original AMG C-Class was also an I6, see the W202 C36.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
If you count the W201 as part of the lineage, the 190E 2.3-16 and 190E 2.5-16 were both four cylinders, too.
Trades46@reddit
But later the W202 C43 replaced it...V8. The W203 C32 went back to a V6...but then came the C55...V8.
Mercedes-AMG could never really get away from V8s and the enthusiasts love them for it. Sad that AMG today can't seem to realize that.
Mnm0602@reddit
L6 can be one of the best sounding engine configurations and BMW moved L6 to v8 then back to an L6 but with a turbo, both sacrilege to purists. But they accepted the change because the power/sound/fun was there.
C63 going from big displacement N/A to small TT was sacrilege too until people test drove them and felt the power and the sound was still good even if muted.
kholin@reddit
And the AMG is a fortune. I might have considered it if I could build a halfway decent spec under 100K, but with a couple of visual options it's over 100.... Oh and fantastic I have the option of 6 colors free of pigment and... a shitty blue, oh and the white is $1750. Seriously it's a sham of a performance sedan.
beamdriver@reddit
It's a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of two mockeries of a sham.
Particular_Flower111@reddit
This is by far the biggest issue (along with the existence of the C43). The car is ridiculously expensive compared to the competition.
Also the C43 looks almost just as good as the C63 with the same engine, but weighs significantly less without the hybrid system and (likely) has a bigger trunk as well without the batteries. I just cannot think of a good reason to buy a new C63 over the C43.
shrekwithhisearsdown@reddit
sham of a manufacturer
uber_neutrino@reddit
Not if you want a V8. V6 Turbo is a no go for me dog.
xeno_4_x86@reddit
Nah I disagree. You ever driven a V8 Mercedes?
Former-Mixture-500@reddit
Having driven an S205 C63s, that thing is insane. I would not consider a 4 cylinder C63, but I would consider a good 6 cylinder one. I really like the M256 in the S580e, it would have been a much better starting point for a new C63. And it is not because i am against 4 cylinders in general if they are fit for the purpose, I love my 4 cylinder base 718 Boxster.
knowledgeable_diablo@reddit
BMW also has history and good knowledge of straight sixes and potent 4’s. AMG’s whole thing was the awesome sounding V8. Replacing that with a highly stung, over worked 4 cylinder with EV to fill in the gaps is just a complete let down and a grenade waiting on its time to explode.
Accomplished_Fox_680@reddit
In all fairness, bmw went from 6 to turbo6.
newtonreddits@reddit
BMW is known for its straight 6s. AMG is known for its V8s.
The people want what they know it for.
Trades46@reddit
The insane thing is AMG's history is rooted deep into the V8 engine.
BMW M started off with the M1 and the M88 3.5L Inline 6. Yes they did some V8 but BMW bread and butter are I6 motors.
Audi Sport RS begun with the RS2 and the 2.2L Inline 5 turbo. The rally bred ur-quattro also had a signature I5 which still is there on the current RS3.
AMG? Their history is literally CENTERED around V8. They started with racing the big 300SEL 6.3...which had a 6.3L V8. After that, the 500E "Hammer" and later modified by AMG to a 6.0L...V8. The W202 C36 AMG had an I6, but then the later C43...V8. W210 E55? V8. C208 CLK 55? R129 SL60? V8. SLS? V8. W203 C55? V8... I can keep going but you get the idea.
Whoever is running AMG needs to be fired yesterday.
movingtobay2019@reddit
This. V8 is basically a cornerstone of AMG's identity in a way it isn't for Audi RS or BMW M.
I'd reckon most people don't buy an RS or M for the engine. But people buy an AMG for the engine.
Not surprised at the result...
WaylonandWillie@reddit
I had a '99 C43 for a few years. It was a wild animal in a conservatively styled tailored suit. I'd wanted one forever and it lived up to every expectation that I had and then some. It was an IYKYK car and people that knew would swarm on it. I still miss the sound of that V8 waking up in the morning.
uberdosage@reddit
Why's you get rid of it? I have been keeping my eyes open for one for a while now...
WaylonandWillie@reddit
That’s a good question that I don’t have the answer to. They’re getting harder and harder to find by the day.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
I think there is a case to be made for the high-output i4 harking back to the EvoII (& the corresponding DTM car), whole EQ turbo shtick is copied from F1, and that M139I is still handbuilt.
C63e is a bad car for a multitude of reasons but personally I don't think the heritage is one of them.
lifestepvan@reddit
People don't associate the 190 Evo with AMG, really. It had a Cosworth engine, and while AMG did race it and was directly involved in the Evo II their input was rather small ("just" a power increase package).
When people hear AMG, they think of big V8 engines (and some V12s for good measure), they think of the Black Series C Class and CLK, they think of the Red Pig, they think of the Hammer Coupe.
Just look at random google results for "most iconic AMG cars". Not that those lists mean a lot but they are somewhat indicative of public opinion.
https://www.carthrottle.com/features/10-best-mercedes-amg-cars-ever
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g19758310/mercedes-amg-models/
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Also true, but the V8 has always been synonymous with the two-door c-class, which is more or less the CLE now and thats planning to retain the V8 so thats a good look.
Personally don't care if they experiemnt with the c63 sedan as long as they keep the two-door tried and true
evol450@reddit
Can't even blame Mercedes. The EU is destroying the enthusiast market because they contribute 0.00001% towards emissions. Paper straws for us and private jets for them.
AcanthaceaeNo948@reddit
If you can afford a V8 AMG I’m sorry but you are one of ‘them’.
evol450@reddit
Lmao, what?
AcanthaceaeNo948@reddit
If you can afford a V8 AMG (unless you’re insanely financially irresponsible and living way beyond your means), you are a member of the 1% elite of society.
Smash_4dams@reddit
The part that gets me is the "necessity" to use recycled plastic in engine components prone to catastrophic failure. Like timing chain tensioners. Any halfway respectable German mechanic will recommend switching out half a dozen plastic OEM parts and replace them with parts made of metal.
stupidzoidberg@reddit
Would love to know what plastic parts need to be replaced in an S58 engine
Master-Mission-2954@reddit
Vote accordingly.
I_luv_ma_squad@reddit
How do I vote Taylor Swift, Kim K, and Elon Musk out of office?
AncefAbuser@reddit
The first two have nothing to do with the last.
Selethorme@reddit
That’s definitely not true
AncefAbuser@reddit
I didn't realize Taylor Swift and Kim Kardashian have the President's ear and are getting an office in the White House. News to me.
One makes pop music for the masses and in general is a quiet advocate for women. The other had a sex tape and leveraged into being a billionaire. The American dream. Also, I guess actually cares about people on death row. Commendable. I certainly wouldn't waste my time on that but I'm not as good a person.
The other is a illegal immigrant who bought himself a presidency so he can do, well, whatever his low T existence wants to compensate for his dad called him a moron. Same reason he bought Twitter, so people are forced to listen to him and he can push his rhetoric towards other low T betas.
I'm sorry, did you want to continue?
Selethorme@reddit
Oh look, dishonest nonsense.
Siguard_@reddit
I would say from personal experience the last time I was purchasing a "sports car". (My insurance company definition not mine) I was looking at a g35 coupe, I got cold feet when I saw my quote for insurance on it. My dealer showed me the same car but in the sedan awd variant and it was thousand dollars less a year.
I think Merc is also looking at the big picture of ever increasing insurance premiums for actual sports cars and trying to play with the insurance companies definitions.
sirhamsteralot@reddit
The reason my rx8 has 4 doors and 4 seats and is classed as a sedan with an NA 1.3L lmao
llamacohort@reddit
This isn’t true. It’s just an old wives tale that people keep repeating. Insurance companies have risk profiles on individual car models.
The car is a little over 3000 pounds with 330 hp at 8500 rpms. Most people aren’t running cars up that high to get the most out of it, so functionally, it dives like a car with a lot less unless you are really hooning it. I’m sure the car can be fun, but generally, it’s just not a high risk car as far as insurance goes. The door count is irrelevant to that.
Automatic-End-8256@reddit
RX-8's have like 160hp, there was a lawsuit about it....
llamacohort@reddit
I was using car and driver numbers. But I never heard about the lawsuit, so they could be based on bad press releases.
BoofMasterQuan2@reddit
About as fast as a sedan with 4 doors and 4 seats with a an NA 1.3 too.
sirhamsteralot@reddit
spoken like someone who has never driven one around a corner
BoofMasterQuan2@reddit
til tracks don’t have corners
I_Am_Very_Busy_7@reddit
“It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”
Due-Glove4808@reddit
BMW slapped hybrid to V8, mercedes could have done same. New M5 is now emission friendly in EU.
Sttocs@reddit
Have you considered an overstressed four-popper?
Do you own stock in a head gasket manufacturer?
TheSigma3@reddit
Over stressed has to be understatement of the year. No idea how they thought a production 4 pot with about 500hp would be seen as anything but a bomb - regardless of how reliable it actually turns out to be
saturnuranusmars@reddit
That's the idea. They want their products to be as close to disposable as possible in order the keep the cycle going. That's why big car is pushing turbo engines so hard across manufacturers lately. They want their cars like they want their people. Stressed and disposable.
AncefAbuser@reddit
Big Gasket has been eating good over the last decade.
Master-Mission-2954@reddit
😂😂😂 That actually made me laugh
juttep1@reddit
Dear Mercedes - AMG,
I don't give a fuckwhat you do because I could never afford anything you make.
Sincerely,
A normal person.
natesully33@reddit
The ability to put V8s in cars isn't going to be around forever. Then what do they do?
I gotta give Mercedes credit for taking such a big risk and throwing so much at this car's powertrain. The engineering is kind of neat, even if it is kinda, well, answering a question nobody asked as Throttle House put it. The car really just fascinates me as this vehicle that's pulled in so many different directions design/philosophy wise - I get the feeling there won't be many more like it, the C63 might be a tech dead end.
iroll20s@reddit
Porsche did it better. The AMG solution was not a good one. They shoe horned what is an efficiency design in there and called it good.
jormailer@reddit
That's a political decision, not laws of nature.
natesully33@reddit
Kinda, it's a policy decision motivated by some inconvenient physics. Without that decision, we'd run head first into peak oil and then the V8s would go away anyway due to economics. And we'd have bigger issues than cylinder count in cars most likely.
uber_neutrino@reddit
Your argument against the V8 is peak oil?
natesully33@reddit
In the long term, ignoring climate change and environmental concerns, yes. At some point (nobody knows when) the economics of ICE will fall apart when fuel becomes crazy expensive.
In the short term much of the world has decided to end ICE early for lots of other reasons.
uber_neutrino@reddit
That's an argument against ICE, not an argument against the V8 specifically. That's why your argument doesn't make any sense.
Sure in some future ICE cars might not be able to be used... at all. So let's kill the V8 right now and kill our sales?
natesully33@reddit
Mercedes pushed the envelope quite a bit to, yes, kill the V8 right now. My argument isn't that doing so was a good idea (apparently not!), especially for the segment where the car is. My argument is that customers are gonna lose the V8 one way or another eventually, so even if they put it back in next generation how long is that realistically going to last? And what happens after?
uber_neutrino@reddit
Again this is an argument that applies to all ICE cars. Why bother making any right now at all? After all they may eventually be useless.
There is no argument against the V8 specifically here.
Mercedes chose to go a different direction and assumed there would be customers for that. There aren't customers for that, whoops.
natesully33@reddit
Oh, I see what you are getting at. V8s (and other large engines) are high emissions/low economy, so they specifically are getting scrutiny, especially in Euro cars since things are stricter over there. While a carmaker might be able to get away with a V8 in a few models fleet emissions/efficiency wise, that's really expensive on the manufacturing and supply front - to keep costs sane they'd want to put them in everything like GM does. Of course Mercedes doesn't have a market they can sell tons of less policy restricted V8 pickups and SUVs in like Ford/GM/Stellantis do.
But yeah, C&D says the C63 got 17 MPG, so uh... the car is inefficient and presumably high emissions anyway haha. Part of me really wants one of these for the irony, it's just such a weird and fascinating mess of a car.
uber_neutrino@reddit
You know what's even more expensive? Having no revenue because you built a car nobody wants.
Lol, the cherry on top I guess.
Personally although I never have owned a C63 it was certainly on my radar. It's not anymore.
In fact there aren't really any cars out there right now that truly excite me enough to open my checkbook (that I don't already own anyway).
BilboT3aBagginz@reddit
*hand built v8 that sounds like god himself designed the exhaust note.
badpuffthaikitty@reddit
Dear Stellantis, us too.
Quatro_Leches@reddit
also what is going on with their blobby designs? their cars become more and more blobby every year. at this rate in 20 years they will be spherical.
walken_on_pissclams@reddit
SPHERICAL!
a_hill_with_a_bakery@reddit
Gamesphere…Gamesphere…
I_Am_Vladimir_Putin@reddit
The coupe is quiet far in the rear and nice
neelav9@reddit
Nahhh, you want their tech! 😂
Makaloff95@reddit
i mean if i were to get a AMG, why tf would i want anything else but one with V8? if i wanted a 4 banger might aswell grab a lancer evo or something
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
Or an Elantra N!
😌
efreedman503@reddit
You know they effed up when there is virtually zero content on YouTube of the 4 cyl C63
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
FWIW, Savagegeese and Throttle House did review the car.
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
Along with Doug demuro. Auto trader, remove before race, and many others. It’s a C63 so it’ll get review videos by default
CayenneHybridSE@reddit
Not all content is good content though, Doug DeMuro said it was the worst car he reviewed in 2025. Others were also disappointed
I-lurk-in-the-bushes@reddit
Did you mean 2024?
CayenneHybridSE@reddit
My bad, it was a 2025 model year but yes 2024
efreedman503@reddit
I should have been more clear. Those channels are given cars to review, correct? I guess I meant no cartubers got one to make content with.
TurdBurgerlar@reddit
Wow I kept reading this as "carburators" trying to make some sense of it. I need my bed.
Frequent_Material_36@reddit
Meanwhile there are 100k videos of straight piped 6.2 C63s
Allaroundlost@reddit
No v-6 and no hybrid. EV battery tech is just not there yet, its to heavy and takes to long yo charge and losses charge a ton with towing and cold/hot weather.
xoal-1@reddit
Ahh you don’t say
416steve@reddit
Michael Schiebe - get your head out of your ass you gaslighting piece of excrement. It's not that we 'struggle with the concept" it's that we don't want a highly electrified overboosted half-baked turbo 4.
saturnuranusmars@reddit
No shit?
Bigmothertruckr@reddit
I hate how we are losing 'real cars' to economy and electric cars. V8 all the way!
probertwasframed@reddit
Had a 2014 C63. Last naturally aspirated 6.2l. Despite the weight, it was a beast on some tracks and enjoyed dusting Mustangs at stoplights.
Hope it comes back.
mugdays@reddit
At that price point, you don't get to brag about "dusting Mustangs" imo
Bot_Fly_Bot@reddit
They are mid-to-upper $20k cars. Not sure how that’s some elevated price point.
mugdays@reddit
They were at least $60k in 2014. Mustang GT's were nearly half that.
Bot_Fly_Bot@reddit
That's true. I guess I was thinking about the current value proposition.
Hokie23aa@reddit
Mustangs? They are absolutely not. Try double that.
Bot_Fly_Bot@reddit
No. W204 C63s.
Hokie23aa@reddit
Ah I’m sorry, my mistake.
EspressoCells@reddit
That’s more of an “awd turbo fart can civic shitbox w 600 whp” tier brag
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
[removed]
Vetroza@reddit
Hybrid tech is pretty much inevitable at this point though. U will probably not see a non-hybrid v8 from Mercedes or BMW ever again
BloodDK22@reddit
Sadly, you are probably right. This will make petrol powered sports cars become very prized. I have zero use for a battery in my sports or weekend toy cars, outside of starting the car. Meh.
Vetroza@reddit
I agree. For me the only good thing about it is that its keeping big petrol engines somewhat alive lol. Rather a m5 with a hybrid v8 than a 4 cylinder.
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DrFuckwad@reddit
It amazes me how dumb car companies can be sometimes...
TurdBurgerlar@reddit
Well said, DrFuckwad.
sehns@reddit
I think the old boys retired and management wanted to give the young woke new leadership their chance to shine..
"Let's make it a performance hybrid" also makes sense if you want your customers to pay for your R&D for future emissions regs
Customers like.. but I want a v8?
Vetroza@reddit
Now wheres all the people claiming that those who buy these aren't enthusiasts and dont care anyways lol
Still_Ad4311@reddit
I am not surprised at all. Even if a customer went in with an open mind, I'm sure after the test drive they said no. I haven't tested the C63 but I did test the E53 vs E450 and it was clear as day that the E450 with its V6 is better. I'm sure if you raced the E450 vs E53 in a straight line quarter mile the 53 would win with its more horsepower and time to get the turbos up and RPM high, but just simple accelerating the 53 was brutal. Soooooo weak compared to the V6 E450. I'm sure the C63 is the same, a 4 cylinder just won't have the same low end torque/power and thats what you use/feel day to day when you aren't going petal to the metal
Spicywolff@reddit
Some haha. You lost a giant share of them. Your competition is running bigger engines with more prestige then an i4. Better interior QC, and delivering better customer value.
This was my first MB, and will be my last. The 206 has ZERO chance to win me over
New_Inside3001@reddit
You buy Porsche for surgical precision, new BMW handling at least in terms of feel is very meh
Spicywolff@reddit
Idk the m3 comp absolutely shedded the cone courses and handles soo nimbly
New_Inside3001@reddit
O own a g87 m2 and had every other M before
Might perform well but feeling is off
Spicywolff@reddit
I think a lot of the brands are losing the feeling and just going for pure performance numbers
On paper, the newer stuff is absolutely faster and will put down faster lap times. But you’re right something about the feeling is gone. I think that’s why I still treasure cars like the Miata.
New_Inside3001@reddit
It’s strange because Porsche is able to make electronic power steering feel good
But bmw, idk, after E series hydraulic it already felt not that great, less so on m2s but very numb on m3/4, and they’ve progressed that philosophy on the new G series generation too
Spicywolff@reddit
Porsche and Mazda have nailed the EPS response and feel.
I think consumers just don’t care about it like they use to. And the ones who do at locating elsewhere. Cooperation will do what’s most profitable
Tight_Olive_2987@reddit
The interior is so shit it’s hilarious.
Spicywolff@reddit
Modern MB for ya. Good quality materials but badly QC and put together. The leathers and soft touch feel great. If only they didn’t creek
aftli@reddit
I have a '21 C43, and recently drove a new C300 as a loaner. Same interior as the new C63, basically. It's shit compared to mine. The only thing that's nice about it is the big portrait center screen. That looked nice (although the trade-off is a bunch of physical buttons moved to the screen, which isn't great). Everything else about it is complete garbage. Every surface you touch (buttons, etc.) is objectively worse than last generation.
A good example is the seat controls. In my car, they are nice aluminum (or, at least, aluminum feeling and looking) switches. In new C-Class, they're just plastic junk. Steering wheel buttons are also objectively worse - all capacitive now. And they still don't have a play/pause or next track button on the steering wheel.
pamomo@reddit
I too have a '21 C43 and recently sat in a the new C43 while my car was in for service. The interior looked nice, but I for some reason it just didn't sit right with me. I still can't quite understand why it's aesthetically pleasing, yet I didn't like it...at all. I also got to hear the engine and it is such a downgrade to what I currently have. I was thinking that I would rather not have any noise then what I was hearing. I wanted to like this car, but it feels like a downgrade.
aftli@reddit
At least for me, it's the cheap. It feels cheap compared to our cars.
Spicywolff@reddit
Yeah, to spend my experience with my 18 as well. When I get the email to trade in my 205 C 63S for the new one. I can’t delete that garbage fast enough.
Mercedes are shitting the bed and quality control, their cost cutting on interiors to a point that it’s an industry joke. Everything you say has been my experience with new Mercedes. Even the S class is not immune to it.
Flat-Cantaloupe9668@reddit
Isn't half the cabin glossy plastic/plastic pretending to be metal now tho? Even if it was put together like a tank I'd feel put off by that.
Spicywolff@reddit
Aren’t most cars and MB competitors the same? Piano block plastics, not real metal. However they will gladly sell you CF- aluminum-wood interior stuff for a fee of course.
muddymess@reddit
Sure everyone uses plastics, but in my experience MB is uniquely bad at putting it together. I mean I've been in showroom E63S that creak from even the slightest touch.
Spicywolff@reddit
Yah in that regard they are the worst. My c63S does the same. Even the S class
Flat-Cantaloupe9668@reddit
They are. It all feels like a massive downgrade from the W222 era of German cars.
Spicywolff@reddit
You won’t get any argument from me. Modern Mercedes and the Germans in general have really dropped the ball on quality control.
BMW seems to be holding out the best
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
I'm going to assume you haven't seen the interior of the new X3. Sure it's got all the fancy tech to distract you but the materials quality is nowhere near that of its predecessor.
Spicywolff@reddit
Haven’t been it it no. BMW NA invite wife and I to auto cross the i5 and 5 series . Then demo drive the m530 (fast suv), the z4 roadster and a few others. All felt way better than MB interior.
AncefAbuser@reddit
X3 is sad.
The 5 and 7 do the "new era" interior much better and it seems like the 3 is just going to skip over to the Neu Klasse BS anyways.
sehns@reddit
Looks like a Chinese brothel
Lawineer@reddit
Car companies make the same mistake, over and over. They try to tell the customer what they want. They try to force things on customers. Why the hell would you stop doing something your customers love?
Marranyo@reddit
Apple gets away with it every time. Funny that after criticising, the main brands follow the same stupid path.
hutacars@reddit
Apple’s competition is generally just that bad. Meanwhile most cars are actually pretty fungible. Doubly so when they start decontenting.
Lawineer@reddit
They just happen to be right every time
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Because the EU says no, and I suspect that a good chunk of their customers are in the EU and the UK who use the same emissions regulations.
Sure they could have sold them down here in Australia and in the US but even the US has CAFE regulations, too.
StandupJetskier@reddit
They should make export versions....
I_Am_Vladimir_Putin@reddit
AMG = AMERICA MEGA GUZZLER
Umbra427@reddit
GOBBLESS
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
It might be that the sales volumes from the countries that aren't pushing through strict fleet emissions regulations (even Australia has them now) isn't worth the engineering effort.
At the end of the day, what the customers want is irrelevant if Mercedes are losing chunks money on each car sold.
Captain_Alaska@reddit
Australia is still Euro5 lmao.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
It is, but NVES has become a thing as of this year, and it's going to have a similar effect. Which is why the V8 70 Series LandCruiser is no longer sold.
ukcats12@reddit
None of us know the finance calculations that go into decisions like this, but it's possible the new one is selling so poorly that making a version with a V8 for the North America market could have made them more money in the long run. The C63 is effectively dead at this point and it does seem like the lack of interest in the car caught Mercedes off guard. They can barely give the things away.
The E36 M3 had different engines for the US and European markets. You can't help but wonder if Mercedes should have done the same thing here.
GothGirlStink@reddit
From the middle east sure. Locally? Not really. Europeans cant afford even half of one, even when they make good money for Europe.
Lawineer@reddit
Make them more expensive to cover cafe tax. Don’t turn them into 4 cylinders.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
It's really not that simple, though - it gets to the point where it's just not worth offering the model at all. There are already some countries where strict taxes on emissions and non-hybrid vehicles mean that the list price of the BMW M3 is more expensive than the M5.
There's no point for the C63 existing as a V8 if it ends up being priced the same as an AMG GT.
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
desirox@reddit
None of the reviews seem to suggest that l it’s convincing
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
I’ve watched several reviews of it and no one claimed it wasn’t a enjoyable car to drive, they’d often just say it doesn’t have a suitable engine. Even Doug and throttle house had that sentiment
truthlesshunter@reddit
Throttle house hates Mercedes though.. Which is fine. Their opinion on this one is accurate.
I'm not against a four cylinder (see flair).. But yeah, Doug hit the nail on the head as well.
If you're going to downgrade the number of cylinders, it'd better be a much greater experience.
This gen of c63 lost everything. They just gained more tech.. Which isn't always a better thing.
Spicywolff@reddit
How so? They absolutely raved about the 205 and 204 c63. Their S class love is obviously, they drooled over the e63.
TH doesn’t like what the brand is doing to themselves. But they certainly love the hits they make.
TheChickenScampi@reddit
Thomas and James were also head over heels with the SLS AMG when they reviewed it some time in December of 2023...
Quick_Coyote_7649@reddit
I don’t think Mercedes really minded the transparent consequences of downsizing the engine for the C63 because it’ would’ve been common sense for them to know a lot of customers wouldn’t have wanted if it didn’t have a V8. I don’t think they’re putting a V8 in it for its next model year and I wouldn’t be surprised if they advertise the CLE63 as its alternative.
KrazyKraka@reddit
I watched the same reviews and got a different impression. The TH review in particular found many problems other than it not having a V8
Ferrarisimo@reddit
Good cars sell themselves and don’t need “the trendy explained more to the salespeople and customers”.
lifestepvan@reddit
Eh, not at this price point. Rich people don't buy cars just because they are good.
There's a lot of examples of sports and luxury cars that were great by all accounts, but a terrible sales flop.
ycnz@reddit
People seem pretty convinced already TBH.
Shins@reddit
Both their styling department and the power train department are in denial of how much they are fucking up. At least when people make fun of bmw styling they are still selling like hot cakes
trashking11@reddit
It’s always super convincing the hear the boss of a performance car company insist “no really it’s a great car I promise!” Reeks of desperation
Mnm0602@reddit
I can just imagine the 50 times someone with a brain tried to make a case for v6 or v8 instead and they kept getting overridden by the bosses, basically speaking into existence that engineers would eventually just make it "better" than the v8. That's not how the world works, as much as sales wishes it were.
Adach@reddit
Classic CEO talk. Blame the customer and say they're confused.
StandupJetskier@reddit
it is a compliance car under euro emission standards, and the tiny engine with hybrid make no sense otherwise or as a performance brief. No one (buyer) cares about the mpg of this tiny niche car. Likewise a 911 hybrid or M car hybrid. Hybrids are great, don't get me wrong, but no buyer cares unless they can't get into the center city during a pollution alert...which is limited to bits of the EU, and not North America.
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
Agreed. It's a similar argument with EVs. They may be faster than ICE cars and have more horsepower than anyone knows what to do with, and yet, enthusiasts still go for that visceral feeling of engines.
strongmanass@reddit
That's because enthusiasts have been trained to consider engine characteristics as an integral part of the driving experience. Engines are not inherently "visceral"; that's just what enthusiasts have been taught to associate the sounds and vibrations with. Operating a lawnmower or leafblower is not a visceral experience. Those are absurd examples, but the point is there's nothing specifically about a combustion engine that's visceral. Our emotional responses to hobbies that require learning as a barrier to entry are themselves learned. Cars fall under that.
70stang@reddit
Clearly you've never driven a Bad Boy Mower
thoang77@reddit
And I can’t imagine there’s too many people cross shopping an EV with a -63 AMG
WaylonandWillie@reddit
I had a '99 C43 for a few years. It was a wild animal in a conservatively styled tailored suit. I'd wanted one forever and it lived up to every expectation I had and then some. It was an IYKYK car and people that knew would swarm on it. I still miss the sound of that V8 waking up in the morning.
ukcats12@reddit
This quote is still putting the onus on the customer, too. No, we didn't "struggle" with the concept. We rejected it because the concept of an I4 in a C63 is straight up antithetical to what that car is.
strongmanass@reddit
It's corporate speak. Translate it to plain English and it's an admission that the car is not meeting the customer's expectations.
Spicywolff@reddit
Are we out of touch with what customers want??
No, it’s the customers that are wrong.
orhantemerrut@reddit (OP)
I honestly think they expected some recognition and applause for having engineered the most powerful 4-popper and all they got was complaint. They may have been confused, me thinks. But that also shows the error in their thinking: Power is not the only parameter for an AMG-buyer. Perhaps, it doesn't even matter that much compared to the V-8 sound, vibration, feel, etc.
argent_pixel@reddit
If I was in the market for a brand that makes vehicle interiors that look like 5 dollar strip clubs, I'd be offended at this comment.
egowritingcheques@reddit
Reviews are SCATHING. I've spoken to a handful of AMG owners and they all dismiss it entirely. They've all driven other makes and will switch again if other brands make a better car.
I'd be shocked if sales are even 50% of the previous model.
deleted_by_reddit@reddit
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longgamma@reddit
Inline 4 cylinder in a performance is acceptable at a sub 40k usd price point. Atleast BMW has the decency to drop down to one of the best performance inline 6 engines in the M3. Like why would someone dropping 80k go for an inline 4?
Dramatic-Bottle2440@reddit
Be real a damn GR Corolla cost more than that
candidly1@reddit
I was in the business for a long time. Every mb tech i ever spoke to seemed to have the same opinion. "You want to drive a reliable Benz? Get an 8-cylinder. The 4s and the 12s tend to be sketchy..."
STRMfrmXMN@reddit
The 6-cylinders in the W212 E seem pretty stout. Before I bought the Mini, I toyed with the idea of buying an E-350 wagon, but they're just too expensive on the used market, probably because everybody else has figured out that the running costs aren't insane for an out-of-warranty Benz.
STRMfrmXMN@reddit
It's a shame nobody wants a hybrid 4-cylinder performance car that weighs 4800 pounds! /s
Dial it back a bit and put it in a A35 and I think people would have gone for it, but it makes no sense as a top-end C-Class.
surenopemaybe@reddit
A C63 should have 6.3 liters of displacement. If it doesn’t, then it’s a lie and I don’t want anything to do with it.
hamburglar27@reddit
Even the OG W204 C63 technicially had a 6.2L engine, not 6.3. It was named "63" as a tribute to the old M100 6.3L engine.
Regardless, displacement based numbering is a relic of the past since BMW and Mercedes have like 99% of their cars being some flavor of 2.0L Turbo I4, 3.0L Turbo I6, or 4.0L TT V8 at various power levels now.
surenopemaybe@reddit
At least it was close. I just hate that the numbers are meaningless now. A 330 should have a 3 liter.
hamburglar27@reddit
Not happening when BMW currently sells like 5 different 3-Series models globally that all have the 2.0L B48 Engine with various power outputs. You can't have 5 different 320s.
Potential_Fall_7136@reddit
Read the article. They’re not saying that they messed up. They’re saying that we don’t understand the technology enough. Fuck them
Frequent_Material_36@reddit
They should just build hot rods for the US market and only give EU the evs their shitty govts crave
Frequent_Material_36@reddit
If you’re so proud of it, put two of your nice engines in there for a 1000hp V8, and see how well it sells
sovereign01@reddit
To be fair, they got ripped to shreds on the last major update when they announced the 4.0L TT V8 instead of the NA 6.3.
I suppose they thought customers would come around to a 4cyl like they did to a couple of turbos.. that hasn’t panned out quite so well.
I bought the previous gen C63 when it was new, purely because of the engine. I considered upgrading to the latest one but what kills it for me is the weight. I took my old c63 to the track and even that was a bit too heavy to be there. This new one is outrageous.
donnysaysvacuum@reddit
This is all just clickbait headlines and Monday morning quarterbacking. There will be people who want to drive V8s forever but they will continue to be less and less and will eventually go away. Forums and enthusiast sites will beat the horse to death over it.
I remember people bemoaning fuel injection, 6 speed transmissions and turbos. Now its touch screens and electric drivetrains. We can't expect car companies to live in the past. Classic cars are still here and will be for a while if you like those things.
instantur@reddit
When are car companies gonna rediscover that people care about more that just the power figures. A hybrid turbo I4 making 600 not equal to an NA V8 making 600.
BetterThanAFoon@reddit
Do they really think it was dropping the V8 and not the replacement they chose?
I mean yeah the V8 gave a great visceral experience but I get the feeling that something other than a hybrid setup would have been better received.
Reduxalicious@reddit
This could almost be classified under "No Shit"
I feel like Mercedes made the mistake of confusing their AMG customers with their regular Mercedes Customers.
One of the two probably doesn't really care about handling or power plant, the other one does.
Of course you're going to lose your AMG customers after dropping the V8 for a 4 Cylinder- Even a 6 would have been dicey but still salvageable potentially, but the Turbo 4?
No Chance, They're walking over to Cadillac or BMW now probably.
seansafc89@reddit
As the proud owner of a 1.6L 3 pot, I wouldn’t even consider purchasing a C63 without a V8 (I can’t afford one anyway)
aaayyyuuussshhh@reddit
well the biggest issue is going from v8 to i4 and skipping the 6. Also the fact it weighs 800lbs MORE than a Model 3 Performance is beyond insane. Like... how???? Also a M3 with well over 100 LESS hp/torque is just as fast if not faster because it weighs so much less.
HamsterCapable4118@reddit
I was interested in learning more about it but the first review I watched said the ride quality is terrible and there’s a deep booming noise over every bump. Not sure why it was tuned like that, it’s not like Benz doesn’t have experience setting up suspensions for the heavy EQ lineup.
I think this kind of innovation could bring in people like me who don’t really know much about Benz and aren’t married to the V8. But the suspension has to be fixed.
BioDriver@reddit
More than some, I’d guess
Flat-Cantaloupe9668@reddit
From a technical perspective, what stops a company from developing a 2 litre V8 and hooking it up to a hybrid system? You'd get the sound people want while passing emissions and presumably the electric motor could make up for the power.
Rattle_Can@reddit
emissions regulations - particularly unburnt fuel/particulate emissions
you want fewer cylinders, and relatively larger piston surface area (less circumference around the piston) bc the gap where the piston meets the cylinder liner is where the unburnt fuel/incomplete combustion happens
(this is a summary of a youtube video i saw, i may have missed something from memory)
also, my gut tells me a 2L V8 would have to rev high to cruise around town, and higher rpm might lead to higher combustion chamber temps, which in turn can increase the NOx emissions, which goes back to particulate emissions
i think a 2L 4 cyl is just a sweet spot of all things considered
2fat2flatulent@reddit
Probably packaging and the fact that there is no real reason to develop an engine like that
egowritingcheques@reddit
Does anyone know anyone who actually bought one?!
CayenneHybridSE@reddit
Someone in my neighborhood has one, he got a good lease deal on it. My local benz dealer has a lot of incentives to try to move them off lots
knowledgeable_diablo@reddit
“Some” is an interesting way of saying everyone.
badyum@reddit
of course they lost customers, what did they think would happen? idk what their plan was and who made it, but it sure was dumb.
Mysterious-Lick@reddit
Love how Throttle House called it a “shit stain,” in their most recent merc review.
TESTICLE_KEBABS@reddit
Why doesnt Mercedes make a 1 liter V8, with hybrid assist
strangway@reddit
It’s worth reading the original Car magazine article, this crappy Motor1 article that editorializes it.
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-news/mercedes-benz/amg-boss/
ConyNT@reddit
It's not about explaining the technology, it's about how the car feels. Hearing the sale person "explain" is the last thing I want. How the car feels on the test drive makes or breaks the sale.
RationalDialog@reddit
And when will they admit, any of them, they lost customers due to subscription BS?
Trades46@reddit
The sad part is outside of a few attempts, the C-class AMG has almost always went back to a V8. The only exceptions are the first W202 C36 and W203 C32, but even then the replacement facelift cars, the W202 C43 and the W203 C55 went right back to V8...ditto the W204 and W205 C63 with their V8s, because that's what people want when you have an AMG badge on the trunk lid.
Tight_Olive_2987@reddit
The problem with this car is that it weighs more than a model s and performs worse. With a 4 pot. There is literally no warier for that
Wonderful_Arachnid66@reddit
This is a perfect example of not under your target market. The M cars were already better for people who wanted vacuum cleaner drivetrains.
kaijusdad@reddit
No shit Sherlock
stav_and_nick@reddit
I think the issue is that they keep trying to intellectualize it. Yes, I agree with them, it’s quite an interesting powertrain; I think it’s a neat piece of engineering
I don’t buy things just because I think they’re neat though. You but AMG because it’s a German muscle car with a V8. Want interesting engineering? Idk, go bark at Volvos superchargered turbocharged PHEV or whatever
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
It'd be one thing if the car actually had an interesting powertrain that had a link to their F1 technology or wasn't obviously an M139 from the A45 with a battery and motor strapped onto it.