Observation: The Cayman GT4 commands a $30k+ premium over the AMG GT
Posted by TemporaryFix5@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 93 comments
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Posted by TemporaryFix5@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 93 comments
[removed]
eaglerulez@reddit
AMG GT is a total hidden gem of a car.
Plenty of power, handles quite well, is comfortable, has a fun sounding engine.
Would easily take one over a GT4
Spicywolff@reddit
Comfortable? Yeah, absolutely not. It rides stiff, the trunk is basically useless. But man, it’s a true sports car. Rear trans axle with a truly low slung low center of gravity engine.
Now I’m specifically saying this about last generation GT. The new generation GT is a Guzzy up SL coupe which absolutely is a way more comfortable and better daily driving vehicle
eaglerulez@reddit
I had no problem hooning the AMG GT around a canyon road with plenty of potholes, broken pavement, etc. Car was totally composed and never beat me up.
Spicywolff@reddit
Rode in one, and it’s definitely very much a sports car. Could I do it? Sure I’m 30 with no back problems. But for a daily driver it’s a bit too stiff and harsh.
But each ass is different, your tolerance for it may be different then mine.
eaglerulez@reddit
Interesting! Totally agree that each person's tolerance is different. When I drove the GT I was coming from a C8 with a pretty comfy mag ride, and found the GT to be totally okay in comparison.
To each their own!
Thanks for sharing the experience!
Spicywolff@reddit
I love the mag ride, crazy how good GM did with them and the tuning.
Enjoy the fun cars
House_of_Gucci@reddit
I have a GTC, trunk is plenty big for a sports car. I can fit two sets of golf clubs, which is about all you can ask for in a car like that.
If you want to load it up with luggage for a road trip, it comes with a net to close off the hatch area from the cabin. Can easily fit plenty of luggage for two people in there.
Spicywolff@reddit
The last gen GT is a sports car first not a Grand Touring. If you’re ok with sports car space then yes it’s good. But many folks don’t realize it’s a sports car so don’t expect big comfort and size.
The new gen GT definitely got the Grand Touring part right. More room, AWD, a bit easier to get in and out of. With enough sports to keep folks happy.
Vecuronium_god@reddit
Many people don't realize a front mid engine 2 door sports car doesn't have large sedan space? That sounds like a them problem and not a GT problem.
Spicywolff@reddit
Dude, consumers many times are idiots. When I worked at Chevy, we’d have the old dudes come in and want the best Corvette we have. Our warning, and the 06 was hell of a lot more aggressive than the stingray. Much harsher and not as compliant.
They didn’t care they wanted the best of the best. Six months later, they come in complaining that they want to trade because the car is too harsh for them. Well, yeah, we told you as such, but you didn’t listen.
I’ll informed customers is very much a problem
Vecuronium_god@reddit
It's really not that stiff. My X4M is a way harsher ride than my GT was.
cookingboy@reddit
It also has hydraulic steering. I was amazed at the steering feel when I drove it.
eaglerulez@reddit
Yes I remember the steering being surprisingly good!
hi_im_bored13@reddit
the transmission is unreliable as fuck, the steering is mid, it’s not actually all that comfortable, there isn’t much storage space, it was worse than the 911.
Yes the later years sorted a good few issues out - they’ve also kept their value better for that reason
cookingboy@reddit
I disagree on the steering. The feedback was the best in its class due to it having a hydraulic rack.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Oh don’t get me wrong, the feel was fantastic, super quick ratio too, it just didn’t turn in like the 911, felt boaty. They fixed it in the later models but destroyed the ride. The GTC is a great middle ground with a really connected front end but those never depreciated as much as the GTS
Congrats on the drive! That boaty feeling is quite odd, but the GTC greatly improves on it and makes the front feel more connected.
Saki-Sun@reddit
I wish I had your knowledge of cars. And some of your cars ;).
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Thank you! Though I will say not a single one of my cars drives better than the 981.
I think the base 981 has to be the greatest value car in recent porsche history. Sounds incredible.
probsdriving@reddit
I had a 981 2.7L (base) that I did a DIY valved exhaust on. $200 in parts from Alibaba and $500 to a local muffler shop. Clicked a button and dumped before the muffler. Sounded like a really slow GT3 with a $15k exhaust. LOVED that car.
I eyeball 981 Boxster S's constantly. Sooo underrated in the car world and reliable asf.
GrapePuzzleheaded727@reddit
Couldn’t agree more. I spread this gospel all the time to people. As someone fortunate enough to get seat time in a lot of cars, I think the 981 is not only one of the best Porsches ever built, but one of the best value cars a track/driving enthusiast can grab in the last decade +. I love them, and I typically am not a Porsche fan. Even a gts with some mods is a crazy bargain car. The ability to buy a clean gt4 for 100k or less if you’re a track rat like me and willing to buy a beater is so much car for the money, and you can happily daily drive one.
hi_im_bored13@reddit
Yeah I don't think it's going to be all that long before the base starts going back up in value. With the GT4 there is always 718 GT4 competing against it and theres the argument the 981 has a bit of an odd power curve
But as far as "slow car fast goes" with the 718 switching to the 4cyl I think the 981 is the last of an era in that signature porsche sound and feel but without immediately breaking the speed limit like you would do in the manual carrera.
Hubb1e@reddit
Yeah I agree with this 100%. The 981 has that special sauce that makes it exciting to drive and it’s not replicated in many other cars. I keep looking around at other sports cars and supercars to add to my collection but the 981 Spyder makes the search difficult. Drove an Artura Spyder last week and it’s technically fantastic but masks the speed and was too tame feeling. I wouldn’t trade someone straight up let alone justify the price difference. And it’s too similar to my car to have both.
That said, I’m on the hunt for an AMG GT-R for track day use. I know a GT4 would be a safer option but it’s too similar to my 981. I’m early in the search and haven’t even had time to sit in one so we’ll see how that goes.
Saki-Sun@reddit
Yeah that's my wife's daily base 981. I enter every tunnel at 20 with the windows down and hammer it.
I would love to experience more cars but the 86 fits like a glove and has been basically free to maintain over the last decade. I can't justify the smiles vrs cost.
Ghost1k25@reddit
Next you’ll tell us that putting a 4 banger in a C63 was a good idea lol
fatitalianstallion@reddit
Hot take: it’s a fancy mustang, just like the M4
Pitiful-Walrus5102@reddit
Owned both the 981 gt4 and an AMG GTR. They are both fantastic cars. Porsche GTs never really depreciate and are fantastic to drive. Although the 981 has known transmission issues and the gearing is too tall. But man does it handle and sound well. The GTR is much much faster. Much more of an event to drive. I’d take the gtr over the 981 any day. But the 981 is still a great sports car.
bomboyage@reddit
You don’t have to worry about transmission issues as they don’t exist anymore ever single one has been replaced in the transmission recall
Pitiful-Walrus5102@reddit
You’d be surprised. When I was in the market before I bought mine a surprising number had not had the issue addressed. I’m also not sure the fix totally worked. Had a friend lose 3rd on his 718 on track. Car was under warranty so Porsche fixed it for free. But it wasn’t like the car was being abused. Just driven as intended
bomboyage@reddit
I’m currently in the process of building it, I’m doing it myself as I’m a dealer tech so I’ve shipped the block off to get machined so I’m just waiting on them now.
SkylineRSR@reddit
Too poor to chime in on this one
Puzzled_Region_9376@reddit
Eh. If you got a new GR86 you can afford caymans and 996/997’s. Don’t sell yourself short
GhostofSenna@reddit
Being able to buy and being able to maintain dont seem equivalent though.
Puzzled_Region_9376@reddit
Depends. My 911 and FRS have cost me the same so far. Now I’ve had to get creative and make new friends. But it’s not impossible if you’re really passionate. Worst case scenario it doesn’t work out and you sell the car at a slight loss.
Imo if you do your homework it’s survivable. Especially since maintenance is a maybe but depreciation is definite on such a new car
probsdriving@reddit
Love my classic Porsches. I have a 944 and hang in the community often. But...the mandatory 100k-ish mile rebuild on aircooled 911s was in the $20k last I checked several years ago, wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to $25k these days.
Now, if you buy one that has a fresh top end that the previous owner spent $$$$ for? Send it. Not hard cars to keep running! Hope you are enjoying yours.
Puzzled_Region_9376@reddit
I am. Absolutely love it and thankfully rebuilds here are still 15 tops. (Which is still a stupid ammount imo). But I understand how it can definitely put people off. I’m debating adding an Elise or even maybe swapping my sc for one. What’s your experience been like?
probsdriving@reddit
It’s my 2nd Elise. Love these cars but they are f-ing weird as shit. Been tracking down a starting issue with mine for the past two months so I hate the thing right now.
But, when they work they’re really special cars. Nothing really comes close unless you’re willing to spend literal millions or go on two wheels.
Very much a toy car though. ND gets most of my attention because it’s just so much easier/safer/nicer. 80% as fun but 200% easier to live with!
Go drive one if you can. Lotus clubs are full of some of the best people in the automotive world. My first one was crashed by a family friend and the head of the club found out within an hour and texted me asking if I was ok. Probably one of the best parts about owning one tbh!
ebicat@reddit
Thoughts on a 1996 Honda civic ex?
SkylineRSR@reddit
Cool car, can’t really name a civic that I don’t like off the top of my head.
Saki-Sun@reddit
Me too...
saturnuranusmars@reddit
It's because it has a GT3 engine
TemporaryFix5@reddit (OP)
I think it has a modified version (to make it NA) of the non-GT 911's, so not inherently super special
bomboyage@reddit
The 981 gt4 in my opinion is perfect super reliable so maintenance is not high at all which an r8 and amg gt you cannot say the same. And it’s a 1 model year car so very few we’re made compared to other cars.
LA-ncevance@reddit
AMG GT transmission is not reliable. It's like $25k+ to replace.
Uda880@reddit
Getrag 7DCL750. Same transmission in various Ferrari models as well. I only found out that the AMG GT had this issue by wanting to buy a Ferrari FF at the time.
Ferrari models: California and California T 458 and 458 Speciale 488 F12 *FF
Mercedes-Benz models: SLS AMG AMG GT
Ford: *Ford GT
LA-ncevance@reddit
Do all of those have issues as well, or just the AMG GT?
Uda880@reddit
Same issues. Pretty well known. Apparently there's a fix for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmBQdlN1e7Y
Spicywolff@reddit
And a PDK isn’t super expensive to replace as well?
LA-ncevance@reddit
It is, but some shops can fix rather than replace now. It's also more reliable. You don't see many Porsches on their third or fourth gearbox
zxrax@reddit
That gen PDK isn't as bulletproof as you might have been led to believe. I don't know about the AMG GT, but the PDK is definitely prone to failure when used heavily/extensively.
Spicywolff@reddit
And many MB shops can rebuild and repair the MB trans.
I’ve not seen many if any trans problems on the GT, this or last gen. on r/AMG we haven’t had reports of it. Nor on MBworld forum. We haven’t seen any 3 or 4 trans reports.
You’re 100% right MB abandoned the manual trans. Which is way more track reliable.
LA-ncevance@reddit
I've seen many reports of AMG GT transmission issues. Just a very quick sample:
https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roadster/866447-reliability-issues-2016-amg-gts.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roadster/863366-gts-transmission-malfunction-warning.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roadster/829127-amg-gts-transmission-build-need-help.html
https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roadster/820096-17-amg-gts-trans-slipping.html
https://forums.mbclub.co.uk/threads/amg-gts-dct-issue-2nd-opinions-welcome.301467/
https://mercedesforum.com/forum/mercedes-amg-class-18/2016-gts-transmission-malfunction-warning-62372/
House_of_Gucci@reddit
Those are all 16-17 GTS models. That’s a very small subset of all the AMG GTs out there. Or are there more threads for the 2018+ cars after they dropped the GTS from the lineup.
LA-ncevance@reddit
Maybe. Take a look and let me know what you find. Of course 2019 and up isn't nearly as depreciated.
House_of_Gucci@reddit
As far as I can see, there doesn’t seem to be a single posting about the trans issue in cars post facelift (2018+). IMO the 2018 cars are the sweet spot
Spicywolff@reddit
“Personally, I would never consider another 2016.” common denominator is years. MB has always had shit the bed in first years of any models. Worse than Chevy in that regard.
Particular_Flower111@reddit
The PDKs absolutely do break. It is a known issue, especially the older generations.
TemporaryFix5@reddit (OP)
Good point. Aren’t these the same 7 speed DCT as all of the other AMG’s of that era (C63, E63 etc) with tweaked software? Do they suffer the same fate?
Also curious as to 3rd party powertrain warranty costs
GVIrish@reddit
No, different transmission. 1st gen Amg gt has a true dct, C63, E63 had the MCT which is multi clutch but only has one input shaft. Basically a torque converter auto with a wet clutch replacing the torque converter.
Spicywolff@reddit
No. The last gen GT has a unique DCT vs C-E-S and other use a MCT7/9 speed.
the whole 63 fleet shares the same trans on models that the trans direct bolt onto the engine. The GT has a unique for MB trans axle like the corvette has.
YouAreMentalM8@reddit
Drive all 3 cars mentioned and you'll find out why haha.
I test drove a gen 2 R8 Spyder and was thoroughly disappointed. AMG GT rides horribly but is otherwise interesting.
SvanirePerish@reddit
As someone who's driven them all, and owned some, your opinion is so bad it's almost troll level
WarDEagle@reddit
This isn't a surprise to me. The GT4 is a desirable Porsche GT car - those hold their value extremely well. The AMG GT has always depreciated like a souped-up Mercedes. I wouldn't call either of these super cars, though obviously some of the higher AMG GT trim levels certainly offer that level of performance.
Juicyjackson@reddit
Its also Arguably a better platform than most 911's...
macgirthy@reddit
Im surprised they haven't moved the 911s from rear engine to mid engine like they do with their racecars.
DrunkRespondent@reddit
Probably the pedigree and something something history. Every 911 owner I've ever talked to like the way it is and said they'd have gotten the Cayman if they wanted a mid engine. I preferred my 981 over a friend's 911 for driving but there is definitely something about the 911 that felt special. Granted no one I've talked with is remotely close to driving these to the limit.
rtdesai20@reddit
Even driving these to the limit, there’s a crowd that distinctly prefers the 911. My buddy regularly tracks his Carrera T, and had the GT4 before it.
He says the GT4 probably had more potential and ease in being a neutral platform and was easy to drive, but he still prefers the 911. He says the car feels distinctly “pointy” and that it’s so much easier to rotate it into and through a corner at speed, while being much more fun to do so. Arguably not the fastest way a platform could be engineered, but he says it’s much better for the style he likes driving it.
He also has a GT500 which he said was also distinctly better than the GT4 though, which was interesting.
Shovell242@reddit
You gotta master the art of trail braking for the GT4 to make sense. For us nonprofessional idiots, that will take quite some time to get comfortable with. The Shelbys are ridiculously neutral so I can understand that take. The Gt4 pushes you to get better at weight transfer though, which is rewarding because you can see your hard work translate as the car behaves more in turns.
rtdesai20@reddit
We’re all coming from the world of motorcycles, so we are more than familiar with Trailbraking and weight transfer! I totally get where you’re coming from, but I think he just finds the “ pointiness” of his 911 a lot more exciting on a track day
Spicywolff@reddit
I think because they’ve been doing it so long they have figured out how to perfect that platform style. And then long time enthusiast of the brand would be super upset.
Look at the Corvette . So much rabble rabble from the boomer crowd. that it’s a sellout on how it’s not an American car anymore. Yeah I’m just about every metric. The new Corvette is better than the old one. Going to mid ship made out of vastly better platform.
brownninja97@reddit
Its also a unique selling point, theres nothing like it nothing else is rear engined. A mid engined car might be better but whats the point its just another mid engined sports/super car then. The RSR went mid engined due to the aero regs while the GT3R right now is still rear engined and both are massively successful.
Spicywolff@reddit
Yup they very much have built the brand image around it. Why kill the golden goose? It’s selling great, handles amazingly. Why mess with success?
gHHqdm5a4UySnUFM@reddit
Just tell the owners that it’s gonna increase the resale price of rear engine 911s
Content_Ad_2220@reddit
The GT3 car is still rear engine, the mid engine 911 is the GTE which is no longer raced.
narwhal_breeder@reddit
And it wasn’t done for weight distribution, just for more room for the rear diffuser.
Saki-Sun@reddit
They don't need to, they have the Cayman/boxer.
ottergang_ky@reddit
They have slowly inched it forward every generation in silence. It’s much closer to being mid engine now than it was 20-30 years ago
Racer20@reddit
There’s a reason the 911 is the only sports car with active sway bars and rear-wheel steering. Those systems are normally used on high-end large vehicle to compensate for length and weight and to break the compromise between ride and stability. Most sports cars don’t need them, but on the 911 they help compensate for the rearward weight bias.
arcticrobot@reddit
Only currently retired RSR GTE racecar was mid engined due to some rear diffuser gotchas. Current generation 992 GT3 R is classic rear engine layout.
Cayman and Boxer are mid engined though
somethingelseaccount@reddit
Porsche simply keeps the 911 rear engine so its easier to have backseats.
italia06823834@reddit
Its maybe worth noting the flip to mid engine for the WEC race cars it should be noted was in large part for aero reasons as well. With the engine not there they could run a much larger diffuser. After refining the design for so long a lot of the bad tendencies of the rear engine have been engineered out.
Now all that said, there's a reason their halo cars are still usually mid engine. 😅
ScipioAfricanvs@reddit
They’ve moved the engine closer and closer every modern generation. And mostly engineered out the “downsides” to rear engine. At this point it’s part heritage and tradition and part engineering flex.
Big_Smooth_CO@reddit
lol. No
Honest-Piccolo-5499@reddit
I'm personally taking AMG GT any day over the Cayman. The AMG offers both luxury and speed. While the cayman offers speed, but is not advertised for its luxury
kuri-kuma@reddit
I love the AMG GT, but it really doesn’t offer luxury. It’s stiff, uncomfortable, and small. Just having the Mercedes star on the car doesn’t make it a luxury vehicle.
Great sports car, though.
Honest-Piccolo-5499@reddit
I strongly agree with the logo and branding part. But I think the AMG Collection offers far more luxury than compared to in a porshe.
AnonymousEngineer_@reddit
Wasn't the 981 GT4 a relatively limited run? From memory it was only in production for a year or so, while Mercedes AMG were pumping out as many GTs as they could sell.
This discrepancy may come down to rarity.
Bot_Fly_Bot@reddit
One year only.
granolaraisin@reddit
Thats because the GT4 is badass.
ottergang_ky@reddit
Porsche historically holds their value very well compared to other brands in general. The cayman series and 911 series are both at the top if you look at it in terms of least depreciation.
My 718 GT4 for example. I paid 115K for it, drove it for 2 years, added 15,000 miles to it and then resold it for 113K just this week actually. https://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/the-top-10-slowest-depreciating-used-cars-in-the-u-s/
Final_Winter7524@reddit
Porsches are known for holding their value better.
Either-Durian-9488@reddit
Porsche is unique, they may not be a “super car” brand, but they are the preeminent sports car brand at the moment imo, the AMG GT is exactly that, a GT, a package that just isn’t compelling for many modern customers in that price bracket, it’s why the M6 doesn’t sell well either, the big Audi coupes are an exception imo because they are so pretty, but also not necessarily selling themselves with the driving experience in a sense
Trollygag@reddit
Works out great for the GTR, GT40/GT, ZR1...
The thing they all have in common is that they are dedicated tools, not mashup GT cars like the 4300lb AMG GT, they all have a reputation for reliabilty in the sense you can be confident in buying and driving it without it being demanding on the owner to keep it running, unlike literally everything Mercedes and Audi make, and they have interesting striking styling, unlike the R8 and AMG GT.
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