I DID IT BOYS
Posted by hAwKeye1117@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 64 comments
Context: In my previous post I talked about how I was worried about my PPL flight progression. Because I couldn't do a 180° power-off approach in my 11th lesson.
After repeating the lesson FIVE TIMES i finally passed. Next Thursday I'm going for the 12th lesson and I hope to fly my first solo (lesson 15) by the end of the month
ManyPandas@reddit
The power-off 180 can be hard for those starting out. It’s an excellent skill to have, though, and you’ll get really good at it when and if you go for your commercial.
Haunting-Creme-1157@reddit
Power-off 180 is Easy. Hitting the runway within 200' of the chosen spot is the hard part (unless you are into "carrier" landings and don't have to worry about the damage you do to the airplane.
EastwoodVest32@reddit
The power-off 180 is indeed challenging initially. Consistent practice is key to mastering this maneuver. While it may seem daunting, the benefits, especially for aspiring commercial pilots, are significant.
wannabe31x@reddit
Wait, power off 180s are ppl maneuvers now?
Endvine@reddit
Engine out is, but they most likely aren’t grading them on the -0/+200 CPL requirement. You just have to make it onto the runway safely.
ProfessionalGas3106@reddit
Congrats man. I am doing my first solo today @ KSDL, it is long overdue as I'm nearly at 70 hours but at least I have the confidence behind those hours to know everything's go smoothly.
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit
Are you learning 180 return as part of your PPL?
hAwKeye1117@reddit (OP)
Yes
Creative-Grocery2581@reddit
Check ACS. I don’t believe it’s part of PPL
Effective-Scratch673@reddit
Power off 180 isn't part of the PPL ACS, is it?
ExpensiveCategory854@reddit
Sounds like his school requires them to practice failures in the pattern. My school did these frequently, although we weren’t required to do it to commercial standards.
14Three8@reddit
My 61 career school in Tampa (not ATP) required us to make a 180 and land anywhere on the first ~3500 ft. (Simulating the short runway at CLW)
PG67AW@reddit
We do similar, touchdown on the first half of our 3000' runway.
CTTNFlyBoy@reddit
It’s part of in flight emergency training but not a required maneuver. I was made do one on my ppl checkride but the standard is only “first third of the runway.” Therefore it’s not technically the “Power-Off 180” it’s simply an “engine failure in pattern”
FossilFuelBurner@reddit
Engine failure in the pattern only happens to commercial pilots. Best not to prepare students for such basic maneuvers.
Palemka91@reddit
I'm not saying you shouldn't, but repeating the lesson five times over not required for PPL maneuver? Show it, let the student practice it, give pointers how to improve. Not moving forward with the training because student is not perfect with it (which is normal with such a few hours) is only making him lose his money. Hell, a lot of CPL students have issues with PO180 even when they have a lot more hours.
Effective-Scratch673@reddit
Exactly. Come back 5 lessons later when a student has worked on other stuff and see the improvement or lack of and take it from there
BradKfan2@reddit
No but a lot of instructors/school will have their students do them. pO180 are a really good skill to have plus they’re fun asf
Effective-Scratch673@reddit
100% agree is an important skill to learn but I think it's bullshit to have a PPL student repeat their PO180 lesson 5 times before they get to solo.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
It is for PPL in glider category.
nascent_aviator@reddit
A power off 180 in a glider is called a "normal pattern" lol.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
It's normal with functioning spoilers. The 'no spoiler landing' simulates INOP spoilers which has been known to happen due to icing. We always test spoiler deployment before entering the pattern.
nimbusgb@reddit
God only knows why we still obsess about no spoiler landings. The incidence of this happening is the square root of nothing.
I've had spoilers lock up due to icing in wave just once in 40 years of soaring and perhaps 120 wave flights. They cracked loose before circuit height anyway. I have never heard of anyone losing spoilers through mechanical failure.
I have done a few just to practice speed control and side slips.
vtjohnhurt@reddit
The no spoiler landing demonstrates that the student can see where the glide slope intersects the ground and that they not using ground landmarks for pattern turns. A stable sustained slip demonstrates some stick and rudder skills, similar to 'boxing the wake' (which as a maneuver has zero practical value).
nimbusgb@reddit
I dont see how it demonstrates glide slope intersection any more than using spoilers does. After all using spoilers takes the same judgement calls. Landing long more brake, short less. Stable slips are easy, a regulating slip where the depth of the slip is used for approach control is a finely tuned art. Balancing bank, yaw, sink and airspeed is more than just stick and rudder! :)
But we digress. The power lads will get upset if we show them real flying skills.
nascent_aviator@reddit
Yes, a no spoiler approach is somewhat similar in concept to a PO180. Though it's more like a "too much power 180!"
vtjohnhurt@reddit
In both cases, you want to be 'too high' when you turn final, and then you do something (slip/flaps) to increase descent rate. I do all of my 3-point Taylorcraft landings with the engine on idle, so similar to PO180. The glide slope is very similar to a nominal glider landing. Airspeed is 10-15 knots faster.
nascent_aviator@reddit
I see what you're saying but it's not how I would describe it. In a no spoiler landing in a glider you need to be very low on final compared to a normal glideslope. Intellectually you're still high but it certainly doesn't feel that way!
EM22_@reddit
Who let the glider kids in here?
Someone shut the door quick
Aviator2025@reddit
Gliders and Sailplanes is real flying.. easy there low wing superiority throttle pusher.. play nice
71272710371910@reddit
Yeah, not required. Good to have, though.
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
No, but every PPL student I train has to be able to make a runway from several miles away from an airport and land. Typically 4 to 5 miles away, 4 to 5k AGL. Wheels down simulated engine failure.
We train so many, OK, good job you made your field emergencies that when the power gets pulled there is no emotional reaction to it. Oh, awesome, another emergency, wooo. There is a marked shift when I tell them they are landing. Wait! What?! WHERE!?!? Idk man, who is flying the plane? Sooooo, shiny side up, wheels on the ground (hey you are losing time and altitude, best glide pls) WHERE AM I SUPPOSED TO LAND, A FIELD?! Maaan, only if you don't have any better options, but I'm pretty sure you have better options.... look around, any thoughts?
Right about then we'll cross over the runway centerline and they look out and see the runway.
I start a timer when I pull power and show them how much time they lost freaking out. It's a fun lesson.
hakrsakr@reddit
Man, this is the sort of thing I wish my instructor did. If I end up CFI I'll have to remember this.
Icy-Bar-9712@reddit
Wanna take a guess where the first time i was exposed to that process?
Honestly, assess every single thing that you look back on and go, "man I wish someone...." and then if you instruct, be that instructor.
And then every instructor you work with that is phoning it in? Yeah, don't be that guy.
If you follow those two instructions? You'll do good.
ashtranscends@reddit
I had to do one on my PPL checkride. I wasn’t held to the same standards of precision as I would’ve been on the CPL ride, I just had to make the runway.
I believe it was shown on the ACS as part of “emergency approach to land” but I could be wrong.
PilotsNPause@reddit
Simulated engine failure in the pattern does not equal a PO180.
You were just asked to complete the engine failure in the pattern as part of the PPL ACS.
There is constant confusion on this sub that they're the same thing but the standards in the commercial ACS are what makes it a PO180 by definition.
nascent_aviator@reddit
No. But an emergency approach and landing is. Some DPEs choose to do this within range of a runway and have the applicant actually land.
Unlike a power off 180 you don't have to hit an exact spot- just make the runway and land safely. The DPE might even accept a go around if it looks iffy.
californiasamurai@reddit
It isn't but a lot of 141s test you on it, notably Riddle and the other ones. Good skill to have
Rictor_Scale@reddit
I was going to ask the same. Never had to do a single one of these. Did many simulated power-off emergency landings (down to 500 feet or so), but never a 180 / 'impossible turn' variety.
Murky-Ad-6018@reddit
No but i remember it was part of one my requirements to solo at my school.
EliteEthos@reddit
It’s not
ionLaz@reddit
At what altitude is the PO 180 initiated?
hAwKeye1117@reddit (OP)
800 ft AGL
pilotskete@reddit
Wrong. 😂
hAwKeye1117@reddit (OP)
Right. In Victoria aerodrome (SCVH) the traffic pattern starts at 800 agl (3000 ft). Instead of the usual 1000 agl
pilotskete@reddit
The question was not “What altitude are you practicing the PO 180?”
It is aircraft dependent. You may be practicing it at 800 AGL, but that doesn’t mean that is the standard.
Read the AFM linked above. 🤙🏻
pilotskete@reddit
Airplane Flying Handbook
PutOptions@reddit
The PO180 went from being my nemesis to now being my favorite maneuver by far. Any time I think I have a shot at a short approach, I ask.
EmotionalRedux@reddit
I’m not your “boys”
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Context: In my previous post I talked about how I was worried about my PPL flight progression. Because I didn't make it to the runway in a 180° power-off approach and a standard pattern engine failure in my 11th lesson.
After repeating the lesson FIVE TIMES i finally passed. Next Thursday I'm going for the 12th lesson and I hope to fly my first solo (lesson 15) by the end of the month. Thank you all for your words and tips. Have a good one
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AshamedMarket7291@reddit
While it might not be included in the PPL ACS, It’s a great skill to have - especially if you plan on getting your CPL. Keep up the good work!
SaltyFriesOG@reddit
Fail 8 times get up 9. Nice work.
brucebrowde@reddit
Ha, that's a nice way to put it. I'm stealing this.
Nessmuk58@reddit
Any career where Takeoffs = Landings can be considered a success!
brucebrowde@reddit
True that!
Fine_Fortune844@reddit
And girls
hAwKeye1117@reddit (OP)
And girls
Big-Boy-Chungus-69@reddit
They didn’t have us do that at my school for ppl but it’s a great skill to have. Good job brother
CorrectPhotograph488@reddit
Nice job. Not sure if you are in America but that structure of your school sounds odd.
FossilFuelBurner@reddit
Why would you be worried about failing something you are learning to do, in a training session?
vtjohnhurt@reddit
After you first made the runway on a PO180, how many of your subsequent attempts have made it to the runway? Have you tried it with different wind directions yet?
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
I think this is where the glider guys will come out in force
collectability@reddit
Congratulations. If you want to permanently imprint the whole energy management skill set in your memory you should go take some glider flight lessons. Super fun and makes you really feel the aircraft.
AlexJamesFitz@reddit
That's great experience and a useful skill — really teaches energy management in a way that, IMO, is useful for all landings.