Helical 9mm magazine : What is the best inplementation of the magazine on all of this designs(In red the magazine and sens of insertion is the arrow) Imagine they are supposedely all smg for the exemple. You can rank them and explain why , pro and cons. I am very curious of your answer =)
Posted by Adorable-Trust4687@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 58 comments
Sgt-Pumpernickle@reddit
If I had to pick one it would be the way the bizon does it. Least complicated and least likely to significantly fuck anything up if it fails, and if worse comes to worst you can just use a normal magazine to replace it.
exessmirror@reddit
I'm thinking the bullpup one of 6 would also work pretty well. Reloading is a little bit awkward but with practice should be able to be done as easily as any other bullpup
PureLeafAudio@reddit
I'd be worried about constantly banging my forearm on the mag release, whether or not it actually drops the mag I don't want that poking into my arm.
exessmirror@reddit
I'm sure there is a way to do it so that it doesn't have to be at your arm. Plus normal bullspups already exist and it isn't as big of an issue. They could easily create a similar system for it.
7isagoodletter@reddit
The problem is that there looks to very little, if anything, to actually grip with your support hand aside from the barrel, which isn't a great idea.
Dogeatswaffles@reddit
That’s an issue of that gun rather than the mag though. Could easily have a longer hand guard so you don’t burn yourself on the barrel
7isagoodletter@reddit
The gun would be obscenely back heavy though. Assuming that its holding 60 some rounds of 9×18 like the Bison, thats gonna be something like a full kilogram back there, in addition to the whole receiver.
exessmirror@reddit
I mean, if your holding it against your shoulder it is carrying its weight already anyway
Dogeatswaffles@reddit
May not be the most comfortable but I’d be willing to try it.
OkRush9563@reddit
Bullpup lovers unite!
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
I totally agree with that the only problem is very front heavy with 60 round and if you put a longer magazine that could be even worse that why i think the chinese made the CS/LS06 (image 1 and 2) for the magazine to be closer of the center of gravity but the second is very top heavy, but is the smallest of the two. The first one is longer but you have the weight between your hand and your shoulder and it's still smaller than the bullupup ones (image 4 and 5) that is not a bad design at all. but it's true the bizon it's by far the simplest one.
PureLeafAudio@reddit
I have a replica PP-19 and I can honestly say it's a pretty solid design, it's adapted pretty well to the new magazine, it's just your extra magazines that are hard to deal with, webbing is hard to find for them too. You can use your middle finger to drop the magazine and because of how it attaches to the gun it basically falls free and clear of you when you do it, otherwise it handles just like an AK.
MountainTitan@reddit
No photo of Calico 🥺
_0451@reddit
Nor the Győrik SMG
sumdudewitquestions@reddit
that first gun clearly has the magazine in the grip. many of those aren't real guns at all.
sandalsofsafety@reddit
I'd say any of the first three have merit, mainly because they should have halfway decent weight distribution. 4 & 5 will be back heavy, though 4 at least keeps the mag sorta centered vertically, so it wouldn't be as bad. 6 would distribute the weight of the magazine fairly well, but now the weight of the rest of the gun is way above your grip. 7 just kind of defeats the purpose of having a helical mag.
BTW, picture 6 isn't a helical magazine, it's a shotgun with multiple tube magazines joined together like a revolver cylinder. I know that's not the point, but...
AltGunAccount@reddit
Have never heard of nor seen 1 & 2.
3 is presumably at least sort of functional to be as prolific in media and videogames as it is.
4 & 5 are Pimp My Gun drivel.
6 is a rotating shotgun mag tube, not a helical magazine at all.
7 is beyond cursed.
jdb326@reddit
Gotta agree with Sgt-Pumpernickle, Bizon.
Advanced-Cycle7154@reddit
Are you trying to build a helical mag?
PremeTeamTX@reddit
What the hell is the fifth pic?
Not_DC1@reddit
There’s a reason they’re not as widespread as conventional drums
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
i said for exemple imagine the TS12 3 separate tube magazines is replace by a helical one , i think i have not clearly explain that was obvious for me, sorry i have not been enough clear in the title my bad =)
Not_DC1@reddit
Yeah then it would just blow ass, helical mags kind of suck lol
McDunky@reddit
What is that first picture of??
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ForgottenWeapons/comments/1i2orul/chinese_csls06_chang_feng_submachine_gun/
Allsons@reddit
That's amazing. Overcomplicated? More like genuinely innovative.
saltygingers@reddit
What's number 6?
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
TS12 shotgun but replace the 3 separate tube magazines by a helical one 9mm
Popular_Mushroom_349@reddit
My vote is for the top-mounted design.
It doesn't get in the way of your forward grip. And it's the closest one to the gun's center. Which means it's more likely to be evenly balanced.
The only issue would be if you had to use stick mags. Which would probably get in the way of the sights.
WVGunsNGoats@reddit
All these photos and no Calico? You should be ashamed OP.
Jolly-Hovercraft3777@reddit
I'm skeptical of that, and that's not considering that the rear sights are mounted on the mag, which bugs me.
Is weight on top better than weight on bottom for recoil? Gravity works either way.
And springs are way faster than Gravity. If your mag feeds so poorly it needs a nudge from Gravity then maybe you need to redesign your mag.
That said, I still want a calico because they are such a goofy artifact.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Sorry =)
paucus62@reddit
Properly designed casket magazines like Desert Tech's QMAG magazine and its Quattro 15 rifle are the future.
Techloss@reddit
No Calico?
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Sadly i have forgotten Calico kill me please
hatsofftoeverything@reddit
I like the rear mounted mags personally, but I could see some issues arising with them, especially jams.
HerPaintedMan@reddit
The more components a machine contains, the more likely it is to fail.
The more precise these components are, the more likely the machine is to fail.
Look at aftermarket Glock magazines. There a bunch to choose from.
4 parts. And most of them aren’t reliable for shit.
Now, you start adding pivot points and you just end up with an overcomplicated clock-work mess, like the first few generations of semi auto pistols.
dragon_sack@reddit
Maybe someone can make one based on the Evans repeating rifle system. All of these rely on springs which are hard to keep consistent during feeding. Maybe a toggle screw mechanism would be more robust.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Yes that why i try to make a "driven by the action" by myself i have idea for a helical magazine system for use in smg.
Hakashi57@reddit
OP, you forgot the Calico M960A and M950
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Calico_M950&wprov=rarw1
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Yes i know i want die
ld987@reddit
That's the fun part, they're all bad implementations. helical mags are inherently heavy, awkward and unreliable. Genuinely think the Evans repeater might be the best because at least you could potentially feel your way through cycling that action. Otherwise whether spring loaded or driven by the action it's never proved reliable.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Hi do you have a exemple of "driven by the action" i am very curious,i can only think about Lewis gun and that's all.
ld987@reddit
Not to contradict myself but the only one that springs to mind is in fact the Evans. Never got hands on with one but as I understand it cycling the lever is what drove the helical screw, as opposed to a mag spring. Awkward all round but the calico and bizon fared poorly too. Just hasn't been implemented well, ever, and it's expensive to boot.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Interesting, i try to make a "driven by the action" by myself i have idea for a helical magazine system for use in smg.
ld987@reddit
It's an interesting idea for sure, you could have a cam on the bolt carrier advancing the screw, but it'd make the magazines expensive due to the mechanical complexity required and the tight tolerances needed to make the system work reliably with different magazines. The Evans got around that by having an internal mag that was manually advanced, and even then performance wasn't stellar.
Best wishes man if you can solve those problems I imagine you'll have plenty of buyers.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Thanks =)
Houtaku@reddit
Assuming perfect functionality: 5. Having the rather heavy weight of a loaded helical magazine out at the muzzle end of a rifle is going to make raising and firing the weapon more tiring. Also, the muzzle rise will change more as the magazine empties versus the same magazine towards the buttstock.
This variant of a bullpup design is a bit odd. It looks like there’s a lot of wasted space behind the ejection port (and presumably chamber). Move the cartridge port in the magazine to the rear rather than the front of the magazine (and move the bolt/chamber obviously) to increase available barrel length in the same length weapon.
Ergonomically, there isn’t enough space behind the pistol grip for a comfortable grip, especially with gloves, especially with a thick cylindrical magazine sticking out towards the sides right there.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Nice, the most developed answer so far the only problem is the ejection port for left shooting
255001434@reddit
It's hard to pick a "best" when they're all bad, but if I had to choose one, it would be the Bizon. It's still impractical because of the helical mag, but it's cool af.
DerringerOfficial@reddit
All I know is that we need a Calico chambered in .500 S&W
g_daddio@reddit
STL-15
csaknorrisz@reddit
To the side like a Sten
MartiniMan666@reddit
I oddly fw #5
p0l4r1@reddit
Less moving parts the better, there's a reason why stick mags are dominant.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
For the exemple imagine they are all smg and for the TS 12 also ( imagine at the place of the revolving 3 separate tube magazines you have a helical one ) for the AK12 the helical magazine is diferent is vertical not horizontal like on the others exemple.
MusicallyInhibited@reddit
The best implementation is a non-helical magazine
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